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Dec 31st, 2009, 11:35:19 AM
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maybe I just misunderstood
   
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,695
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SB2 server preparations
A few times I have seen people display interest in playing ADV on an active good simulator, and SB2 seems to provide the perfect opportunity to make this a reality. Apparently it will be much easier to makes changes to the game mechanics on SB2 than SB1, and there seem to be very few complex changes between the generations (with the notable exception of Hidden Power being sometimes special and sometimes physical, and Choice lock's effect changing subtly). Other than those two it should be a matter of writing up a new species file, collecting the minor differences, and removing everything new.
What you can do to help There are still quite a few things to be worked out, for one someone will need to host the server. We also could do with a few people to volunteer to do some programming. When we start work on the species file there will be a lot of grunt work to do, writing it up and checking against various dexes. For now the most useful thing would be to find changes in moves, items, abilities, and other game mechanics and post them here (preferably with a source so I don't have to go tracking one down). I can't do this on my own, the help of everyone who wants to make this happen is needed. This is not currently an official project and will rely on public support to work.
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For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group  ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.
Last edited by eric the espeon; Sep 8th, 2010 at 9:26:11 PM. Reason: items |
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Dec 31st, 2009, 11:39:31 AM
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Don't cry, little one
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,455
Italy
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I will let you know if I find other mechanics stuff to change. |
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Dec 31st, 2009, 12:20:40 PM
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It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.
     
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,230
Home: Goshen Scout Reservation
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# Undo the Physical/Special Split. Again, need to work up a big list of what needs changing. Much easier than move checking though.
This will be easier to do by altering the code to judge based on the move type. That would make it work with Hidden Power much better Recover had 20 PP in Gen 3 Dig had 60 BP Fly had 70 BP Dive has 60 BP You also need to edit the mechanics for when a Pokemon comes in, (i.e. A pokemon comes in right away after a previous is knocked out, so it would get leftovers recovery the turn it switches in I believe.)
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Alder: N, even if we don't understand each other, that's not a reason to reject each other. There are two sides to an argument. Is there one point of view that has all the answers? Give it some thought. 
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Dec 31st, 2009, 12:48:12 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,358
England
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Doubles' KOs are quite different. In RSE, a KO'd Pokemon is immediately replaced. It can then potentially be hit by a subsequent move. In the extreme case, Team A can knock out both of Team B's Pokemon with a move like Surf or Earthquake, then knock out both replacement Pokemon with the same move. (I think RB Golbat mentioned this above; the difference is much more noticeable in doubles than in singles)
Surf only hits the opponents, not the ally. Flash is lower accuracy, 70% I think. Lock on moves (Lock On, Mind Reader, Foresight, and Odour Sleuth I think) have finite accuracy, meaning they can miss. No Pokemon can be at level 1. Bred Pokemon cannot be below level 5. (Admittedly this isn't too relevant.) Secret Power and Nature Power have different effects in RSE than in DDPt. I'm not sure what terrain Shoddy assumes - if it's building, then Nature Power becomes Swift, not Tri Attack as in gen 4.
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"If I may guess, Emboar might be an exception to the norm that the scalding liquid is expelled from the Pokémon's mouth" - Cobraroll, on Emboar learning Scald. "Nothing like a cup of tea to start off the day" - Professor Oak, EP025. |
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Dec 31st, 2009, 4:54:52 PM
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I see sparks fly whenever you smile
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,314
Illinois
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Hi Jump Kick has 85 power in RSE, 100 power in DPPt.
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Dec 31st, 2009, 4:56:08 PM
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[02:06] <DixieNormous> Rodan x pookar: Just Do It
   
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,910
Foursquare, a sprained ankle, bottlecap ninjas, and wallball
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- Counter should affect all Hidden Power, regardless of type.
- Moves that hit all targets in doubles have full power (Explosion, Earthquake) - Moves that hit both opponents in doubles have half power (Surf, Rock Slide) - Zap Cannon has 100 BP - Rock Smash has 20 BP
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Dec 31st, 2009, 5:08:31 PM
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#7 |
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Don't cry, little one
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,455
Italy
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Crunch lowers Special Defense, not Defense. Shadow Ball still lowers Special Defense, though.
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Dec 31st, 2009, 6:58:26 PM
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#8 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 464
Location
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- Absorb has 20 PP
- Mega Drain has 10 PP - Giga Drain has 5 PP - Jump Kick has 70 BP - Acid lowers Defense, not Special Defense - Charge doesn't boost Special Defense - Stockpile doesn't boost Defense and Special Defense - Taunt only works for 2 turns
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nothing to see here. |
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Dec 31st, 2009, 7:54:44 PM
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#9 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,183
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you won't get damaged when using high jump kick or jump kick on a ghost type pokemon it will just have no effect unlike in 4th gen were you will take damage i also belive the self damage formula is diffrent from 4th gen but i can't remember for sure.
Spite randomly deletes 2-5 PP from the foe's last move unlike 4th gen where the foe always loses 4. Nature power is always Swift in link battles because link battles terrain is always set to stadium Secret Power effect is always PAR in link battles for the same reason above Intimdate doesn't activate when a pokemon gains it via skill swap and trace due to the way Intimdate is coded in 3rd gen. Volt absorb doesn't work on T-wave and the move takes effect. Overheat on the 3rd gen carts is a Contact move for some reason. Tickle bypasses and hits thru a Sub. Fire types Immunity to Burn takes Priority over Flash Fire making Will-O-Wisp unable to activate Flash Fire on fire types. thats all i can remember of the top of my head.
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<Misty> NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH CHOICE BAND JIRACHI INQUISITION. <Surgo> when a man whips out a pink DS and pokemon, you know he's not afraid of anything. <capefeather> explosion got ruined by the bad economy Last edited by AJC; Dec 31st, 2009 at 8:10:59 PM. |
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Jan 1st, 2010, 11:18:47 AM
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maybe I just misunderstood
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,695
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Great finds everyone! Keep it up. I've added everything that I can find confirmation for to the OP.
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For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.
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Jan 1st, 2010, 11:55:52 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,358
England
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Mind Reader and Lock On, which have a different effect (ensuring the next move hits), I'm not sure about. I'll check in game and come back with the results. EDIT: Confirmed that in Pokemon Emerald, the in-game description of Lock On states is has 100 Accuracy, and that it can miss.(Tested with my Magneton after allowing a wild Trapinch to Sand Attack me) I'd assume Mind Reader would be the same, but I will try and check that fairly soon.
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"If I may guess, Emboar might be an exception to the norm that the scalding liquid is expelled from the Pokémon's mouth" - Cobraroll, on Emboar learning Scald. "Nothing like a cup of tea to start off the day" - Professor Oak, EP025. Last edited by cantab; Jan 1st, 2010 at 12:25:28 PM. |
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Jan 1st, 2010, 6:10:27 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,183
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i've checked on my Ruby and Emeralds carts and everything i said works as i said
and for HJK and JK miss recoil appears to be capped at 1/4 of the damage you would had dealt. tryed trace Gardevoir on a Gyarados dos intimdated got the trace message and no effect confirming tryed the same in emerald with Mightyenas same thing trace pokemon traces but the traced intimdate doesn't trigger. Then tryed skill swap after getting imtimdated which also caused nothing to happen which sould put the nail on this coffin. Spite indeed is randomly 2-5. it says so on the move discription the reason for the 3rd gen dex saying otherwise is because of some sorta copypaste job infact alot of the reasons your getting conflicting statements is because of the amount of copypaste.
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<Misty> NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH CHOICE BAND JIRACHI INQUISITION. <Surgo> when a man whips out a pink DS and pokemon, you know he's not afraid of anything. <capefeather> explosion got ruined by the bad economy Last edited by AJC; Jan 1st, 2010 at 7:16:20 PM. |
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Jan 3rd, 2010, 6:23:52 PM
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#13 |
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 742
Caution - Sawsbucks on road
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When a Pokemon uses Struggle it takes 1/2 of the damage dealt to the opponent, not 25% of it's max. HP.
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Trading is a serious business. White FC: 1678 3054 7710 SoulSilver FC: 2622 5126 4730 |
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Jan 3rd, 2010, 8:31:26 PM
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maybe I just misunderstood
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,695
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Quote:
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If you mean capped at 1/4 of the target's max HP not the 1/2 in DP, please test and confirm. Quote:
Added all others, keep them coming!
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For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.
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Jan 6th, 2010, 7:50:34 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 553
Agrabah
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Saying "Taunt lasts two turns" is not quite correct, Taunt wears off at the end of the next turn, regardless of whether the user went first or second (somewhat similar to Wish in coding, I would assume)
Also posting to confirm the Intimidate thing. It is definitely true that it does not work with Trace or anything else... if you don't already have the Intimidate ability when you switch out, it will not activate. I also faintly remember another issue with Intimidate and both sides switching simultaneously, but I really am not sure about that The whole "there is no target!" issue does not exist in RSE... RB Golbat mentioned it but I will elaborate. A fainted Pokemon is replaced immediately, and the turn continues as it would have had a Pokemon not fainted. Meaning Poison, Burn, Leftovers, etc... all still trigger for both sides, and the user that did not faint is still forced to use whatever attack they selected rather than simply skipping their turn Edit: Spite does in fact remove 2-5 as suggested. Also worth noting that Beat Up STILL runs off of Base Attack/ Defense, even though it is now of a Special-type
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Originally posted by mfair4d I don't think salamence should be moved to uber. Recently a mence switched into me when i was using icebeam and bam down before it could move. Last edited by Reflect Suicune; Jan 6th, 2010 at 8:06:05 PM. |
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Jan 7th, 2010, 2:59:16 AM
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,183
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it was annoying to set it up but on the carts since no trainer in 3rd gen outside the battle tower/frontier uses sub and none of the natural learners of the move have it at the levels they can have in the wild (tested with Emerald and Ruby in link battles) i can confirm tickle is hitting past a sub in 3rd gen.
this doesn't work in 4th gen.
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<Misty> NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH CHOICE BAND JIRACHI INQUISITION. <Surgo> when a man whips out a pink DS and pokemon, you know he's not afraid of anything. <capefeather> explosion got ruined by the bad economy |
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Jan 7th, 2010, 5:38:49 AM
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#17 |
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maybe I just misunderstood
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,695
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Updated OP.
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For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.
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Jan 7th, 2010, 6:08:59 AM
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ACUPRESSURE
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,508
Cambridge, England
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I can do the GBA movesets and move power/accuracy changes if needed; I have the 3rd gen data availabe, and could convert it to the correct format. Event moves may need to be added by hand, though.
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Jan 7th, 2010, 10:14:16 AM
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np: Michael Jackson - 'Mon in the Mirror (Dream World mix off the "Black or White" album)
 
Administrator
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Fuqua: Where business cases are read and devils are blue
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Is there any way that this can be married with the source code for SB2 that is already out there? ete and I talked about this briefly yesterday and we would love for those with actual programming ability to take charge of this endeavor so it can become an "official" project. Don't let ete's efforts go to waste!
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Jan 7th, 2010, 12:09:27 PM
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maybe I just misunderstood
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,695
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And yes, if someone who can program and make this a reality wants to take this on I would be very happy for them to take change. If someone is willing to give this the "official" stamp it would also be great. I remember talking to Doug some time ago, iirc he said that it would be possible to implement multiple metagames on one server, but that it would be much more simple to have multiple servers. So that is probably what we should do, at least to start with. Edit: Also, Vader started this for RBY (off Smogon in a mildly chaotic way, it will be moved here at some point) a while back, and august expressed interest in leading a the GSC version of this on irc yesterday. Past generations here we come!
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For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.
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Jan 7th, 2010, 12:39:49 PM
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#21 |
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It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,230
Home: Goshen Scout Reservation
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Do we know the exact formula for Damage in the past games?
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Alder: N, even if we don't understand each other, that's not a reason to reject each other. There are two sides to an argument. Is there one point of view that has all the answers? Give it some thought.
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Jan 7th, 2010, 12:56:07 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,358
England
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Quote:
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"If I may guess, Emboar might be an exception to the norm that the scalding liquid is expelled from the Pokémon's mouth" - Cobraroll, on Emboar learning Scald. "Nothing like a cup of tea to start off the day" - Professor Oak, EP025. |
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Jan 7th, 2010, 1:31:51 PM
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#23 | ||
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maybe I just misunderstood
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,695
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What I would be very interested in would be the usage stats. As far as I am aware, there was never detailed or reliable usage stats at any point in Pokemon history until SB. Wonder how closely experience will tie into the new reality, and how accurate the old OU/BL lines will be.
__________________
For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.
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Jan 7th, 2010, 2:04:58 PM
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#24 |
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I am your big brother
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,464
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Working on the items list (using Serebii and Bulbapedia's item list for reference and listing all items with in-battle effects):
Items
Berries
It should also be noted that the Enigma Berry is different in DPP than it is in RSE. Enigma Berry becomes an E-Reader Berry in RSE, but is a standard Berry in DPP that recovers HP when the target is hit by any super effective attack.
Mail (DPP)
Mail (RSE)
Last edited by Xia; Jan 7th, 2010 at 2:44:37 PM. |
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Jan 7th, 2010, 6:04:24 PM
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#25 |
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This space for rent
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,148
Miami, Florida
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I wanted to mention, for the sake of this, that there is a moves.xml and moves.js in the resources folder of the SB2 server. It should be very, very easy to go and make changes to moves and what they do, tedious more than anything else. There are also species and item files for the same purpose, so the only thing I see that may have some difficulty are the mechanics, which might have some files floating around and if not, Colin should be able to move more "mechanics stuff" to the text files.
EDIT: Or you can find where it is in the source and make the appropriate changes, but it'd be honestly better if you only had to change the text files to make it work from a purist point of view. EDIT2: Sorry I can't be of any real use, but I remember something being mentioned about explosion ending the turn or not, some different behavior. Probably someone will remember what I meant. |
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