Roserade (Update)

Hola. ibo said I could do this, and Roserade is awesome, etc

status: awaiting upload


http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/roserade

[Overview]

<p>Roserade is, hands down, one of the best Toxic Spikes users in OU. She can easily dispense Toxic Spikes in the lead position thanks to Sleep Powder, which allows her to neuter opposing leads, and her decent Speed stat. While Roserade is usually seen as a Toxic Spikes user, she can also be employed as an exceptional offensive Pokemon. She has access to two powerful STAB moves in Leaf Storm and Sludge Bomb, and as a result of this, can successfully run both a Life Orb and a Choice Scarf set. On top of this, she is also an excellent Spikes user, and can use a SubSeeding strategy to stall out the opposing team.</p>

<p>However, there exist some downsides to using Roserade. She is very frail on the physical side, so most powerful physical attacks will KO her. Priority moves, such as ExtremeSpeed and Bullet Punch, will often spell doom for Roserade. Additionally, her Grass/Poison STAB combination is resisted by many common Pokemon, such as Heatran, Scizor, and Jirachi, and so she must rely on a Hidden Power type to cover all of these threats. Despite these downsides, however, Roserade is a solid choice on any OU team looking for a versatile entry hazard supporter or special sweeper.</p>

[SET]
Name: Toxic Spikes Lead
Move 1: Toxic Spikes
Move 2: Sleep Powder
Move 3: Leaf Storm / Grass Knot / Energy Ball
Move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
Evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Thanks to her decent Speed and access to Sleep Powder, Roserade serves as an excellent lead with her ability to shut down many common leads and proceed to set up on them. She works best against slow, bulky leads who are unable to defend themselves from Sleep Powder.</p>

<p>As previously mentioned, Sleep Powder is extremely important on Roserade, as it allows her to sleep and set up on common leads, such as Swampert and Metagross. Toxic Spikes is a great support move, and Roserade can set layers up reliably. The third moveslot is for Roserade's STAB move of choice. Leaf Storm is preferred for its sheer power, but Grass Knot can be used instead if the Special Attack drop Leaf Storm causes is unattractive. If the inconsistency of both moves is unappealing to you, then Energy Ball is a fairly decent replacement, albeit much less powerful than Leaf Storm. In the final moveslot, Roserade has her choice of Hidden Power to use. Hidden Power Fire is the primary option as it allows Roserade to hit Skarmory and Forretress leads who will otherwise easily set up on her. Hidden Power Ice is a good option as well for its ability to OHKO Gliscor and Salamence, who will often switch in on Roserade hoping to set up with Dragon Dance.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Roserade can also use Hidden Power Ground quite well. It allows Roserade to beat Heatran and Occa Berry Metagross leads, whom Roserade otherwise has difficulty damaging. However, its use outside of this function is extremely limited, and so you are usually better off sticking to one of the Hidden Power options that is already listed above.</p>

<p>The EV spread is very simple, yet still quite effective. 252 Speed EVs and a Timid nature are an absolute must when using Roserade, as they allow her to outspeedas much as possible. Considering Roserade is not one of the bulkiest Pokemon out there, it is important that she is able to outspeed as many leads as she can so that she can sleep them before they attack her. 252 Special Attack EVs are used so that Roserade can deal as much damage as possible with both her STAB attack and her choice of Hidden Power. The remaining EVs are placed in HP to give Roserade a one point boost. Focus Sash is the only item that should ever be used on this Roserade set, as without it, she is OHKOed by many opposing leads and never gets the chance to set up Toxic Spikes.</p>

<p>Heatran is one of the best partners to this set. He is capable of switching in on many leads who otherwise threaten Roserade, such as Jirachi, and battering the opposition with his powerful STAB Fire-type attacks. He is also a capable user of Stealth Rock, which makes a good complement to Roserade's entry hazards. In turn, Roserade can switch in on Water-types who threaten Heatran. Magnezone also makes a good partner, particularly if Roserade is running Hidden Power Ice; it can easily switch in on the numerous Steel-types who will attempt to KO or set up on Roserade, trap them with Magnet Pull, and proceed to KO them with its powerful Thunderbolt. Machamp leads are very troublesome for Roserade to take on. They can absorb Sleep Powder with Lum Berry, and use a combination of Ice Punch + Bullet Punch to swiftly KO Roserade. For this reason, defensive Rotom-A is a good partner to have, as it is immune to DynamicPunch, takes small damage from Ice Punch, and can cripple Machamp with Will-O-Wisp (though Machamp's Lum Berry must be used first) or attack him with its STAB Thunderbolt. Rotom-A is also a great Rapid Spin blocker and can prevent Roserade's precious Toxic Spikes from being spun away. It is also important to pair Roserade with Pokemon who enjoy Toxic Spikes support. SubRoost Zapdos and Torment Heatran and great examples of this; they are very stall-oriented Pokemon, and with Toxic Spikes support, their stalling is much swifter and easier to carry out.</p>

[SET]
Name: Spikes
Move 1: Spikes
Move 2: Grass Knot / Energy Ball
Move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
Move 4: Stun Spore / Rest / Leech Seed
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Calm
Evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Roserade is a great Toxic Spikes user, she can also set up Spikes, and thanks to her good base 105 Special Defense and ability to heavily damage many common Rapid Spinners, she is an exceptional and often overlooked user of the move. Her sky-high Special Attack sets her apart from other Spikes users like Skarmory, as does her decent special bulk.</p>

<p>Spikes is a great support move, and forms the crux of this set. Grass Knot is the primary choice for Roserade's STAB option, but Energy Ball works just as well if the inconsistency of Grass Knot is unappealing to you. Hidden Power Fire is used in the third slot for hitting Steel-types who will commonly switch in on Roserade, such as Scizor and Skarmory, but Hidden Power Ice is a viable alternative if you wish to be able to hit Dragon-types such as Salamence and Dragonite, who will otherwise set up on Roserade. It should be noted, however, that if you choose to use Hidden Power Ice you are losing out on the ability to hit Forretress, who will delight in switching in on Roserade, spinning away her Spikes, and then setting up Spikes of his own. In the last moveslot, you have several decent options to choose from. Stun Spore is the primary choice, as it allows Roserade to afflict Pokemon switching into her with crippling paralysis; it also comes with the neat ability to paralyze Ground-types, like Flygon, who are immune to most paralysis-inducing moves. If Stun Spore isn't your cup of tea, Rest can be used instead, as it allows Roserade to fully recover her health, switch out, and come back in later with no status effects thanks to Natural Cure. Leech Seed can also be used if you want Roserade to further stall out opposing Pokemon while setting up Spikes; it also allows Roserade to stall Blissey, who otherwise walls her absolutely.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Synthesis can be used in the fourth moveslot in order to give Roserade an alternative instant recovery move. The main issue with this is that Synthesis' recovery is decreased from 50% to 25% when sandstorm is active on the field. Seeing how common Tyranitar is, this will be quite often, and will severely lower Roserade's ability to take the special hits that she is meant to take. Overall, if you're in the market for an instant recovery move on Roserade, Rest is the better option due to its reliability.</p>

<p>The EV spread allows Roserade to maintain acceptable physical bulk and excellent special bulk. With the given HP and Defense EVs, Roserade will always survive an Adamant Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch, even after Stealth Rock damage. 136 Special Defense EVs and a Calm nature allow her to easily switch in on resisted hits like Starmie's Surf and Rotom-A's Thunderbolt and proceed to set up Spikes. If surviving Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch isn't of importance to you, then an alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 136 SpD / 120 Spe can be used; it allows Roserade to outspeed 36 Speed Celebi, Zapdos, and Jirachi, as well as 252 Speed Jolly Tyranitar. Leftovers is the item of choice for its ability to slowly-but-surely recover Roserade's health.</p>

<p>Good teammates for Roserade are Pokemon who will force a lot of switches; this allows the team to take advantage of her Spikes and wear down the opposition through indirect damage. The specific Pokemon to use alongside Roserade depend on the kind of team that you are using. If you are using a more stall-oriented team, then more defensive partners will be the better choices. A simple Skarmory + Blissey combination will form the infamous "SkarmBliss" duo, capable of walling a significant portion of the metagame and forcing numerous switches. On an offensive team, Pokemon who force switches with their offensive presence are good partners for Roserade. Infernape, for instance, can switch in on a predicted Fire-type attackand U-turn as the opponent switches to a counter, forcing more residual damage. Salamence will also force a lot of switches with his versatility. Another effective way to take advantage of Roserade's Spikes is to utilize a Fire + Water + Grass defensive core. Using Roserade in tandem with a combination of Pokemon such as Heatran and Vaporeon will work well. This will force the opponent to switch multiple times due to defensive synergy, racking up more Spikes damage and keeping your core at high health.</p>

[SET]
Name: Choice Scarf
Move 1: Leaf Storm / Energy Ball
Move 2: Sludge Bomb
Move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Ground
Move 4: Sleep Powder
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
Evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Thanks to Roserade's amazing Special Attack and decent Speed, she is able to utilize a Choice Scarf set to great effect. The main selling point over other Choice Scarf users is her access to a blazing fast Sleep Powder, allowing her to outpace and cripple any Pokemon in the game (bar other Choice Scarf users).</p>

<p>Leaf Storm is the main option in the first moveslot because of its immense power. Energy Ball is a less powerful, but more reliable, option for the more conservative player. Sludge Bomb is used in the second slot as it gives Roserade an effective means of hitting the Pokemon who take little damage from Leaf Storm, such as Celebi and Salamence. However, be wary when you're using Sludge Bomb, as it is a risky move on a Choice Pokemon; opposing Steel-types will be able to switch in and set up on Roserade with their immunity to Poison-type attacks. Hidden Power Ice is the primary option in the third moveslot as it allows Roserade to outspeed and OHKO Salamence and Gliscor; Salamence in particular is a threat to this set as he can freely come in on Leaf Storm, so it helps to have a means of revenge killing him before a Dragon Dance. Hidden Power Ground is viable solely for hitting Heatran, who will otherwise be able to freely switch in on Roserade throughout the entire match and wreak havoc. Sleep Powder is the best move in the final moveslot as it allows Roserade to outspeed and cripple almost any threat, which helps her team immensely in the long run.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Hidden Power Fire is an alternate move for Roserade to use. It allows her to hit most Steel-types who switch in on her quite hard, which is helpful as Steel-types will otherwise wall the set indefinitely. However, if you are using Scarf Roserade you should already have a way to deal with Steel-types, so the need for Hidden Power Fire is alleviated. Roserade can also use Grass Knot, but the inconsistency of its base power is unattractive on a Choice set where she is unable to switch attacks.</p>

<p>The EV spread is extremely simple. 252 Speed EVs and a Timid nature are absolutely necessary, because Roserade needs to be able to outspeed all of the threats she possibly can. 252 Special Attack EVs are used to boost Roserade's already immense Special Attack stat. The remaining EVs are placed in HP to give Roserade a tiny boost in defensive capability. Modest is an alternate nature if you wish to hit harder, but Roserade needs all the Speed she can get.</p>

<p>When using Choice Scarf Roserade, you absolutely must have a Pokemon who can take out Steel-types.They will otherwise switch in on her throughout the entire match with no consequences and be free to set up. Substitute Heatran in particular works splendidly with this set for this reason, as he can switch in on any Steel-type causing Roserade problems, like Skarmory, set up a Substitute on the switch, and proceed to heavily damage the opposition with STAB Fire Blast. Heatran is an even better partner if he carries Explosion, as this allows him to lure in and OHKO Blissey, who otherwise walls both he and Roserade completely. While Heatran is a great partner to this Roserade, he is also a great counter to her. Unless you're running Hidden Power Ground, opposing Heatran will wall Roserade. For this reason, bulky Water-types such as Suicune and Vaporeon work well alongside Roserade, as they can easily switch in on and scare off opposing Heatran. Both Fighting- and Fire-types are good offensive partners to this set; fortunately, Infernape can use both of these types, making him an ideal offensive partner for Roserade. He can easily break the Skarmory + Blissey combination that Roserade is completely helpless against.</p>

[SET]
Name: Life Orb
Move 1: Leaf Storm / Energy Ball
Move 2: Sludge Bomb
Move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground
Move 4: Sleep Powder / Spikes / Toxic Spikes
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
Evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set aims to take advantage of Roserade's high Special Attack and above-average Speed by turning her into a full-blown special sweeper. While this set may appear to be outclassed by Life Orb Sceptile, Roserade has higher Special Attack and the advantage of being able to run a great support move in tandem with her attacking options, whether it be Sleep Powder, Spikes, or Toxic Spikes. Any one of these support moves works excellently on this set, and you can use any option you like depending on your team’s needs, making Roserade stand out from other all-out-attacking Life Orb users.</p>

<p>Leaf Storm is the best option in the first moveslot for the immense power that it packs, but Energy Ball can be used instead if you want a more consistent move. Sludge Bomb is used in the second slot as a secondary source of STAB that allows Roserade to OHKO Naive Salamence after Stealth Rock damage. The third slot is for Roserade's choice of Hidden Power; Hidden Power Fire is the best option for hitting Steel-types such as Skarmory and Forretress who otherwise completely wall Roserade, while Hidden Power Ground can be used instead as a means of hitting Heatran, who is immune to Sludge Bomb and has a 4x resistance to Leaf Storm. The final moveslot is what sets Roserade apart from other Life Orb attackers: the ability to successfully use a support move. The choice of move depends solely on your team's needs, and as such, there is no "better" option. Sleep Powder is listed as the first option as it allows Roserade to cripple any Pokemon switching into her (bar RestTalkers and status absorbers). However, Spikes or Toxic Spikes can be used if your team can abuse the entry hazard support. Using Spikes and Leaf Storm on the same set is illegal, so keep that in mind when deciding what moves to use.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Hidden Power Ice can be used in place of the two listed Hidden Powers, as it allows Roserade to OHKO Salamence, Dragonite, Flygon, and Gliscor switch-ins. However, Salamence is already OHKOed by Sludge Bomb after Stealth Rock damage, while Flygon and Gliscor are both OHKOed by Leaf Storm; as such, Hidden Power Ice becomes a mostly redundant option. Expert Belt can be used to help Roserade bluff a Choice item and surprise a counter with Sleep Powder, but Life Orb grants her significantly more powerand enables many key OHKOes, such as against Salamence.</p>

<p>252 Speed EVs and a Timid nature are necessary on this set as they allow Roserade to outspeed as many threats as possible; considering Roserade isn't particularly bulky, it is important that she be fast. 252 Special Attack EVs are used so that she hits as hard as she possibly can, and with her base 125 Special Attack stat, very few Pokemon can switch into her safely. The remaining EVs are placed in HP as filler. While some people may see it as a good idea to run a Modest nature on this set to deal more damage to incoming Pokemon, it is almost always more valuable to be able to outspeed and damage the opponent's Pokemon as opposed to simply hitting them harder on the switch-in.</p>

<p>Blissey completely walls this set, not caring about Sleep Powder due to Natural Cure and sponging all of Roserade's attacks with her astronomical Special Defense. Snorlax walls Roserade in a similar fashion, but will be temporarily shut down by Sleep Powder. In order to deal with these Pokemon, offensive support is needed. Lucario makes a good choice for this with his ability to switch in on Blissey and a sleeping Snorlax, set up a Swords Dance, and sweep. Mixed Salamence can break down stall teams that will otherwise usually have a solid response to this set. Mixed Infernape accomplishes the same thing, and has the additional bonus of easily breaking the dreaded "SkarmBliss" combination. Unless you’re running Hidden Power Ground, Heatran will completely wall Roserade; as such, Dragon Dance Gyarados is a wonderful offensive partner to switch into Heatran and set up a Dragon Dance (beware of rare Hidden Power Electric variants, however). With entry hazard support, very few Pokemon will be able to switch into this Roserade safely. Stealth Rock support is a must, as with it, Roserade is able to OHKO Salamence with Sludge Bomb. A Heatran of your own makes a great choice for setting it up with his defensive synergy with Roserade. Spikes support is also a good idea when using this set,as it secures several OHKOs for Roserade. Physically defensive Skarmory is a good Spikes user alongside Roserade. Although they share a weakness to Fire-type moves, he can switch into the physical moves that will otherwise easily take down Roserade, making him a solid teammate.</p>

[SET]
Name: SubSeed
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Leech Seed
Move 3: Sludge Bomb / Energy Ball
Move 4: Spikes
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
Evs: 236 HP / 152 SpD / 120 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is a more stall-oriented Roserade set that combines her ability to successfully use Spikes with her ability to take resisted special attacks like a champ. Roserade's main advantage over other SubSeeders is her access to Spikes, her Poison-type STAB in Sludge Bomb, and her base 105 Special Defense.</p>

<p>Substitute allows Roserade to set up a safety net against critical hits and status. It also makes it much easier to stall out the opponent, as they will have to hit through Roserade's Substitute directly, giving her more time to stall them out. Leech Seed is used to allow Roserade to both stall out her opponent and gain back some of her own HP at the same time. When used in tandem with her Leftovers, Roserade will often have restored all of the health that she used in order to create a Substitute in just two turns. Sludge Bomb is the primary attacking option in the third slot as it allows Roserade to nail Grass-type switch-ins, such as Celebi, for serious damage, who would otherwise absorb Leech Seed without trouble. Energy Ball is a passable option as well, allowing Roserade to hit bulky Water-type Pokemon as well as Pokemon who are resistant to Sludge Bomb. Spikes is used in the final slot as a means of allowing Roserade to support her team while she stalls out the opposition with her SubSeeding combo. With her base 105 Special Defense, Roserade can easily set up Spikes on powerful resisted special attacks, and will often set up one to two layers, making it harder for the opponent to switch.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Roserade can use Hidden Power Fire in the third moveslot in order to hit Steel-types who will otherwise wall her completely. However, this leaves her open to being set up on by many threats, such as the ever-dangerous Salamence, and so it is often an inferior option, especially when you consider the fact that Roserade only has one attacking option on this set.</p>

<p>The EVs on this set are customized to maximize Roserade's defensive potential. 236 HP EVs allow for much more overall bulk, and let Roserade take attacks that she otherwise would be unable to. 152 Special Defense EVs and a Calm nature allow Roserade to set up a Substitute on any resisted special attack up to Modest Magnezone's STAB Thunderbolt. 120 Speed EVs allow Roserade to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar, as well as 36 Speed Jirachi, Zapdos, and Celebi. If Speed is more important than overall defensive ability when using this set, then an alternate EV spread of 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature becomes a viable option. While this does allow Roserade to outspeed and Leech Seed more threats, it leaves her unable to easily set up a Substitute against many of the powerful special attackers against whom she can set up on with the main EV spread.</p>

<p>Though this set is capable of handling many threats on its own, it can really shine with proper team support. Toxic Spikes support can be a huge blessing when used in tandem with a set like this; Roserade will often find herself stalling out opponents, and with two layers of Toxic Spikes on the opponent's side of the field, she can do so much more easily and quickly. Tentacruel makes a good choice to provide Toxic Spikes support, as he can also Rapid Spin away any entry hazards that the opponent set up, making it much easier for Roserade to switch in and begin her SubSeeding process. If you aren't interested in Toxic Spikes, however, then paralysis support can be employed to allow Roserade to outspeed more threats and set up on them. Rotom-A is a good choice for this, as it is also capable of preventing the opponent from spinning away Roserade's Spikes. Stealth Rock support also helps this set, as Roserade will be forcing a lot of switches with Leech Seed. Metagross, Swampert, and Heatran are solid Stealth Rock users, and all three synergize well with Roserade defensively. Taunt Gyarados will easily set up on this set, so Hidden Power Electric Vaporeon makes a good defensive partner. Vaporeon can also pass Wishes to Roserade, keeping her health high.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>When using Roserade, entry hazard support helps a lot, as she will often force a lot of switches thanks to the prospect of her powerful special attacks or her crippling Sleep Powder. Metagross, Swampert, and Heatran are good choices to supply Stealth Rock, as they are reliable users of the move who synergize well with Roserade. If Roserade is not running a set utilizing Spikes, then having Spikes support from another teammate is a good plan, as when used in conjunction with Stealth Rock, it maximizes the residual damage inflicted on all of your opponent's Pokemon. Skarmory is a good choice for providing Spikes support due to his high Defense and access to Whirlwind, but he shares a Fire-type weakness with Roserade. If you're using a Roserade set that utilizes Toxic Spikes, make sure Roserade is paired with Pokemon who work better with such support. SubRoost Zapdos and Torment Heatran are prime examples of this, as they can use the Toxic Spikes to more easily stall out the opposition; SubCharge Rotom-A works in a similar vein, and can also block any attempts to Rapid Spin away your entry hazards.</p>

<p>Fire-types like Heatran and Infernape are great offensive partners to all Roserade sets, scaring off the Steel-type Pokemon who will otherwise wall and set up on her. Fighting-types such as Machamp and Lucario are able to check Blissey and Snorlax, both of whom can easily switch in on Roserade's attacks with their high HP and Special Defense stats and proceed to set up on her. Opposing Fire-types will also spell doom for Roserade, so bulky Water-type Pokemon are great teammates to check them. Vaporeon gets a special mention as he can pass Wish to Roserade, keeping her health high. Suicune and Gyarados are good choices as well, easily switching in on the Fire-type moves aimed at Roserade. Rotom-H is a wonderful defensive partner for Roserade, as it can easily switch in on and dispose of the common Steel-type Pokemon who switch in on Roserade. Rotom-H has the additional ability to block Rapid Spin, meaning that the opponent can't simply spin away the entry hazards that Roserade sets up. In order to maximize Roserade's defensive potential, it may be a good idea to utilize a Fire + Water + Grass defensive core. By using Roserade alongside a combination of Pokemon like Heatran and Vaporeon, you obtain amazing defensive synergy. This allows you to more easily switch in and out of your opponent's attacks, and ultimately helps create more situations in which Roserade can easily switch in and set up or sweep.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Roserade has a few other decent moves that will usually struggle to find a place on her set. Extrasensory can be used in order to hit Fighting-types, but the only Pokemon whom it will hit harder than Roserade's other moves are Machamp, Gengar, and Breloom, usually making it a wasted moveslot. Roserade also makes for a decent weather supporter due to access to both Rain Dance and Sunny Day, as well as Weather Ball, but she is extremely physically frail, and will usually only get a maximum of one opportunity to set up weather. She can also succeed on sandstorm teams, as she resists Water- and Grass-type moves and has access to a powerful Rock-type attack in Weather Ball. GrassWhistle can be used as a sleep-inducing move on sets where Sleep Powder is illegal, but its poor accuracy often makes it an undesirable choice. Roserade makes a decent cleric with Aromatherapy, but traditional clerics like Blissey and Celebi are usually better choices for such a role. Shadow Ball can be used on offensive sets, but it will usually only hit Gengar harder than Roserade's other moves, as Rotom-A is already hit for tremendous damage by Leaf Storm. Growth is an option to boost Roserade’s already-high Special Attack, but she is often too slow and physically frail to successfully sweep.</p>

[Counters]

<p>While Roserade may be an extremely powerful special attacker, she is easily walled by many common Pokemon. Any Roserade set lacking Hidden Power Fire will be completely shut down by opposing Steel-types, as they aren’t heavily damaged by any other move Roserade commonly carries. This means Pokemon like Skarmory and Forretress can easily set up on Roserade, while Pokemon like Scizor can switch in and score serious damage on her. Salamence and Dragonite will set up on most Roserade sets lacking Hidden Power Ice, but must be wary of Sludge Bomb from the Life Orb set, as it will hurt them significantly. Blissey and Snorlax effortlessly wall most Roserade sets, but the SubSeed set will do a number on them due to their large HP stats. Heatran can easily switch in on Roserade and proceed to either set up or simply spam his powerful STAB Fire Blast, but must beware rare Hidden Power Ground variants. Overall, almost anyone faster than Roserade with a decently powered physical STAB move will beat her, as her Defense leaves a lot to be desired, and her Speed is average at best.</p>

Rose is not frail for one, and can actually be used as a decent special sponge due to its typing (especially vs. Rotom). Spikes set needs Leech Seed slashed, especially if the subseed set is being taken down. Finally, can you please explain the EV spread on the Spikes set?

yeah and also, i'm not sure synthesis should be removed, tar isn't going to be in a match over half the time (more like 3/4 of the time actually) and roserade could really use synthesis to make it more of a counter against magnezone, rotom, shaymin. i dunno if phil will back me up on this but i would definitely suggest synthesis in the last slot for spikes set.

Phil:

Rose is not frail for one, and can actually be used as a decent special sponge due to its typing (especially vs. Rotom).

Click to expand...

As I said on irc, I see your point on this, so I'm being more specific (i.e. she's PHYSICALLY frail).

Spikes set needs Leech Seed slashed, especially if the subseed set is being taken down.

Click to expand...

Done, I slashed it in the fourth slot as that seemed most appropriate, but if you had something else in mind, let me know. As for the SubSeed set, I dunno if it's going to be taken down. When I tested it, I got a very mixed bag of results, and so I'm impartial as to whether it is removed/not removed. It'll depend on the result of SilentEcho's QC testing for this round, as he said he planned on testing SubSeed Roserade. So yeah, depening on what he says, it'll get the boot/stay on.

Finally, can you please explain the EV spread on the Spikes set?

Click to expand...

I have no talent for creative EV spreads, so I generally use whatever's on the current analysis when I test stuff, which is what I've done this time. From what I could gather, the EVs let her outpace both defensive 36 Speed Celebi/Zapdos + Jolly Tyranitar. 252 HP EVs are just for takin' hits, and Calm with 136 SpD EVs is for sponging special hits, specifically from Waters like Suicune/Vaporeon. It also allows her to come in on Rotom's TBolt more easily.


EDIT: sorry kd, I missed your post

yeah and also, i'm not sure synthesis should be removed, tar isn't going to be in a match over half the time (more like 3/4 of the time actually) and roserade could really use synthesis to make it more of a counter against magnezone, rotom, shaymin. i dunno if phil will back me up on this but i would definitely suggest synthesis in the last slot for spikes set.

Click to expand...

I'm mainly planning on removing it due to my testing; more often than not, Tyranitar was in the match. However, it's entirely possible that I was simply getting unlucky in facing a Tyranitar over half the time. Synthesis is definitely great when you're not facing a Tyranitar as it does allow Roserade to more easily come in on special attackers, but when Tyranitar's in the match, you're basically left with no way to recover HP. I still am definitely going to mention it in AC at this point, but if I see more people hounding me for it to not be removed, then I'll definitely keep it on, and instead remove rest and mention IT in AC.

I think Rotom should be listed in Team Options because Roserade is often used to set up entry hazards.

Yeah, Rotom'll definitely be mentioned; I must have forgotten to put it in. Thanks! :)

Me said:

On the Spiker Roserade i think those speed evs are largely pointless for the reasons given, 36 speed base 100's i.e Zapdos, Celebi, Jirachi and Jolly max speed T-Tar. You beat non Psychic/max sp.att LO HP Fire Celebi anyway, Zapdos beats you with Heat Wave and you cannot do squat to it. Tyranitar is debatable, with no sp.att evs again you arent doing much to it and Jirachi beats you regardless with any set.

However in contrast, an ev spread of 252 hp / 120 Def / 136 SDef benefits Roserade much more. It cushions Scizors BP's, Pursuits and you can now cushion Swampert's EQ and even wall/check horrible foes like Breloom MUCH better. The latter of which grant you more opportunities to set Spikes up.

CB Scizor BP Vs 252/120 Def Roserade - 67% - 79%
Same Vs 252 HP / 0 Def - 80.9% - 95.4%

CB Scizor Pursuit Vs (switching) 252 HP / 120 Def Roserade - 59.3% - 70.1%
Same Vs 252 HP/0 Def Roserade - 71.6% - 84.6%

As you can see she takes those sorts of hits ALOT better.

TL;DR, Def evs really help more overall than speed evs.

Click to expand...

Perhaps a mention at least of this spread ?

Hmmmm....I actually really like those EVs. I had never known that a better spread existed. I actually think that I'm going to make that the primary EV spread, so thanks a lot for that! The current EV spread will be mentioned in AC ^_^

I'm approving all these changes, and once SE gives his final decision regarding the SubSeed set I'll stamp this update. However, on the lead set I would like to see a mention of Hidden Power Ground in AC, as it makes possible for Roserade to beat Heatran leads and also hit Metagross leads for around 50% of damage without having to worry about a possible Occa Berry.

Thanks bro...and yeah, that definitely makes sense about HP Ground. I'll add a mention of that. ^_^ Incedentally, do you know when SE will be done with his testing?

Make sure when you do the spikes to talk about why you would use Roserade to Spike over arguably better spikers, Frosslass, Skarmory, Forretress. The main reason is, although you may want to use a spin blocker, Tentacruel is the only spinner that would dare try to spin in your face, as all the other ones are scared shitless of a Grass Knot / HP Fire Roserade.

I've used Spikes Roserade quite a bit in Suspect, peaked in the 1470s with it on my most successful team, and I'd feel a little more comfortable about not taking out that Synthesis slash. It's a bit presumptuous to say that Ttar's usage means auto-Sandstorm in every single battle, or that you won't want some recovery in the meanwhile before your opponent actually sends it out (because it most definitely won't be coming in on Roserade).

There's really no point in getting fancy with the EVs either, since the aim of this set is really to tank out most of OU's non-mixed special attackers and set up Spikes on them. You're losing a lot of check and switch-in potential by not maxing out on Sp. Def.

One more thing: put Energy Ball somewhere in the analysis. For all of the heavy Pokemon in OU, there are plenty of light ones as well, and having the ability to not get set up on by them is important for a tank. You're not breaking Rotom or Jolteon's subs any time soon with Grass Knot, I'll tell you that much. I'd even go so far as to say it deserves to be first in the slash, but one little step at a time, I suppose.

RL:

Make sure when you do the spikes to talk about why you would use Roserade to Spike over arguably better spikers, Frosslass, Skarmory, Forretress. The main reason is, although you may want to use a spin blocker, Tentacruel is the only spinner that would dare try to spin in your face, as all the other ones are scared shitless of a Grass Knot / HP Fire Roserade.

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Yeah, I'll definitely make sure to talk about this. In fact, this is the main reason why I would use Spikes Roserade, as like you said, Tentacruel is the only Spinner who's coming in on her, and isn't a particularly common Pokemon at that (though usage is rising from what I can tell).

SJCrew:

I've used Spikes Roserade quite a bit in Suspect, peaked in the 1470s with it on my most successful team, and I'd feel a little more comfortable about not taking out that Synthesis slash. It's a bit presumptuous to say that Ttar's usage means auto-Sandstorm in every single battle, or that you won't want some recovery in the meanwhile before your opponent actually sends it out (because it most definitely won't be coming in on Roserade).

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I don't think that TTar's usage necessarily means sandstorm in every battle, but the main reason I'm removing Synthesis' slash is because of how unreliable it is. Sometimes it's great, as you will play ten matches and see a Tyranitar only once or twice. However, other times it's awful; I played eight straight matches where the opposing player used a Tyranitar (different opponent for each match). When you're aiming to be a consistent player and win a majority of your matches, Synthesis isn't the best option. Rest assured, however, it's still quite viable, and will get a lenghly mention in Additional Comments.

There's really no point in getting fancy with the EVs either, since the aim of this set is really to tank out most of OU's non-mixed special attackers and set up Spikes on them. You're losing a lot of check and switch-in potential by not maxing out on Sp. Def.

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I disagree; unless I'm completely missing something, Roserade doesn't survive any special KOes by maxing Special Defense. With the EV spread currently listed, however, she is never OHKOed by Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch after Stealth Rock damage, which I do consider rather important. She can still switch in on special attackers almost as easily as she can if she had maxed SpD with the current EVs, so I'm actually pretty happy with the EVs as they currently stand.

One more thing: put Energy Ball somewhere in the analysis. For all of the heavy Pokemon in OU, there are plenty of light ones as well, and having the ability to not get set up on by them is important for a tank. You're not breaking Rotom or Jolteon's subs any time soon with Grass Knot, I'll tell you that much. I'd even go so far as to say it deserves to be first in the slash, but one little step at a time, I suppose.

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Yeah, you're completely right. However, rather than slash Energy Ball in every slot alongisde Grass Knot, I'm just going to mention Energy Ball in AC for each set and talk about how it can be used if you wish to hit Rotom-A and Jolteon, etc. I'll also mention it again in Optional Changes.

I'd have to say that Energy Ball should be slashed in alongside Grass Knot. It's better/more reliable in a number of cases and deserves the mention. Do that and I'll stamp it.

EDIT: yaaaaay

I've been conversing with Philip about the last changes made to Roserade in this thread, and we think they look fine. However, we want to wait for SilenEcho's final results before giving our final approval, as he is the one who's attending Roserade in this round.

-talk about how she's basically a great Toxic Spikes user
-talk about how she can run Choice sets
-sets up Spikes

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Basically, I would reorder this when you write it to TSpikes user -> Spikes -> Choice sets instead of the order you have now. Just a nitpick, I think it would be easier to understand if your overview covers things in the order the sets are, if you get what I'm saying.

Hey, I already spoke to you about this on IRC, but I'll post here as well for other people to voice their opinions on my suggestion. I would like to see Life Orb listed as the primary option on the "Choice" set (It would obviously have to be retitled to "Offensive" or something like that) because I believe Life Orb is superior to Choice Specs when used by Roserade for a few reasons.

With the abundance of Pokemon such as Metagross, Heatran, Lucario, Jirachi, and Scizor, among many others, Roserade is going to have a hard time sweeping with her two STAB moves, especially considering the fact that you are now locking her into using one attack with Choice Specs/Scarf. Furthermore, being locked into using Sleep Powder opens up many opportunities for the opponent to brew trouble. With Life Orb, however, Roserade has the benefit of alternating between her attacks, which she seriously wants to be able to do to avoid being pure set-up bait to the likes of Salamence, Lucario, and Jirachi.

Roserade still gets many of the necessary 2HKOs/OHKOs with Life Orb that Choice Specs gets. Here are some damage calculations portraying this:


In essence, Life Orb Roserade has a significantly easier time sweeping than Choice Specs Roserade does. If she encounters a troublesome opponent, she can Sleep Powder them without actually being locked into using it again. If Heatran comes in on your Sludge Bomb, go for the OHKO with Hidden Power Ground. If Gyarados decides to absorb your Hidden Power Fire, go for the OHKO with Leaf Storm. Do you see what I'm getting at? Choice Roserade has no chance at doing this unless you have some extreme prediction skills, and a lot of people don't have that. Life Orb Roserade eases prediction and still retains the power you need to sweep.

Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to suggest one more thing should you agree with my suggestion of using Life Orb > Choice Specs. Toxic Spikes or Spikes should be slashed in the last slot with Sleep Powder, or just mentioned in the Additional Comments section. These are helpful entry hazards for offensively-oriented teams, and I don't think Roserade has too much trouble setting up a couple layers.

Lastly, if you think Life Orb Roserade is outclassed by Life Orb Sceptile, I completely disagree with you.


Whew. I know that Life Orb Roserade works because I did actually use it recently (I think two weeks ago?). I hope you consider my suggestions. Thanks.

I'm in support of Fuzznip's suggestions, each one of them. I would really like them to be considered, and I doubt this could bring up some discussion as the outcomes of said changes outweigh what is taken away from Roserade (Choice Specs mainly).

Life Orb Roserade can't run Toxic Spikes, Spikes and Sleep Powder on the same set, so litsing them as "advantages" over sceptile is misleading.

Also misleading is saying "Poison STAB" has any benefit at all, as you're hitting maybe two OUs with that, and "Absorbing Toxic Spikes" as approximately 3 players use that.

Also a lot of your calcs assume stats that those Pokemon almost never run in competitive battling (mainly Empoleon).

I'd love to see specific calcs showing where the SpA boost matters more than outrunning Scarf Tyranitar and company.

Chris is me said:

Life Orb Roserade can't run Toxic Spikes, Spikes and Sleep Powder on the same set, so litsing them as "advantages" over sceptile is misleading.

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Obviously you can't use them on the same set. However, Roserade can run one of them and Sceptile can't. Do you need Toxic Spikes support? Use it. Spikes? Use that. If you just want to sleep troublesome opponents, use Sleep Powder.

Also misleading is saying "Poison STAB" has any benefit at all, as you're hitting maybe two OUs with that, and "Absorbing Toxic Spikes" as approximately 3 players use that.

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Sludge Bomb helps a lot as a STAB attack. You get to severely damage neutral targets such as Salamence and Infernape as they switch in, and maims Celebi, upon others. Toxic Spikes is still a very big nuisance to offensive teams despite it not being as common as Spikes or Stealth Rock, so for Roserade to boast the typing to absorb that is incredibly useful.

Also a lot of your calcs assume stats that those Pokemon almost never run in competitive battling (mainly Empoleon).

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Umm... Sorry but this doesn't make any sense. Gyarados runs max Attack and Speed, Salamence max Attack and Speed (or Special Attack whatever), Kingdra max Attack and Speed (or some HP but it is still OHKOed), Machamp max HP andAttack, Roserade max Special Attack and Speed, Tyranitar is just the standard CBTar, Rotom-A is the standard Defensive set, Infernape is the standard max Attack and Speed (or Special Attack whatever), and Empoleon is the standard Agility + SubPetaya. Pleas enlighten me because I am awfully confused.

Yea, after testing Life Orb Roserade today, I have to say that it's pretty kickass. Nobody can switch in on it safely, especially if you're running Sleep Powder. What I'm actually planning on doing is making two seperate sets. One will be the Life Orb set, and the other a Choice Scarf set (with Specs briefly mentioned in AC). The main reason for my doing this is because of how effective the Life Orb set is. Everything Specs Roserade does, Life Orb Roserade does just as well, and also has the ability to switch moves, enabling it to run Sleep Powder / Toxic Spikes / Spikes risk-free. For this reason, I believe that Life Orb Roserade deserves a completely different set. On the flipside, I think that having a seperate Choice Scarf set will be good. The Scarf set is used primarily for its ability to outspeed threats and deal tons of damage off of it's base 130 Special Attack. It will also focus on Scarf Roserade's revenge killing abilities and access to a fast Sleep Powder. Then, in AC, I will briefly mention how Specs can also be used on Roserade (and will mention it later in OC). I believe, after extensive testing, that this would be the best thing for the analysis.

For the Life Orb set, I believe:

Leaf Storm/Energy Ball -- Sludge Bomb -- HP Fire/HP Ice -- Sleep Powder/Spikes/Toxic Spikes
Timid -- 4 HP -- 252 SpA -- 252 Spe

would be best.

For the Scarf set:

Leaf Storm -- Sludge Bomb -- HP Ice/HP Ground -- Sleep Powder
Timid -- 4 HP -- 252 SpA -- 252 Spe

would be good.


If people approve of these changes, then I'll edit them into the OP and the skeleton and they can be approved. Thank you.

I disagree with the user chris is me in some of the things he has said, and here are is why:

1. I don't quite understand what you mentioned about running TS, Spikes and SP in the same set. I think Fuzznip listed all those details only for the purpose of mentioning options that Sceptile can't add to its LO set. Roserade, when using Life Orb, can also make use of at least two of the moves that were outlined: Sleep Powder and Toxic Spikes. This would obviously leave Roserade with Leaf Storm and Sludge Bomb as her only attack options, but once you put a Pokemon to sleep you'll have a clear opportunity to set up at least a layer of TS, which in fact could be a pretty good support in some offensive teams IMO.

2. Sludge Bomb does not only hit "3 Pokémon". For instance, Celebi, Breloom, Dragonite, Heracross are all hit without outspeeding Roserade (except for Celebi with a +Spe nature), while some others such as Salamence, Infernape, Zapdos are hit pretty hard on the switch-in or if they are under the effects of paralysis. On the other hand, while Toxic Spikes is much more uncommon than Spikes, it is still used and not in a poorly manner. Roserade was almost at the top #10 of used leads in OU according to the stats of May, which proves that "more than 3 people" actually use this Pokemon and hence the move TS in question.

3. I believe Empoleon (and the lack of a few points in SpD on Machamp) are the only Pokemon missing some EVs. Infernape never uses any investment of EVs in HP; Kingdra happens to have 3/7 sets that implement EVs into HP; Tyranitar nowadays is weirdly seen using HP EVs, even so, 160 EVs were listed; Rotom-A is listed with full HP; 4 HP Gyarados is one of the most common things around, and even if it uses max HP it receives a min damage of the 73%; lastly, as I already mentioned, Machamp is missing some SpD EVs (likely 16), which don't really make a big difference.

Anyways Fuzznip, I'm curious about something: does the additional Special Attack warrant the drop in Speed when comparing LO Roserade to LO Sceptile?

Everything looks good, but personally on a LO set I would run Leaf storm / sleep powder / hp fire or ground / sludge bomb. Though I have never used it in OU so my word isnt very strong on this set

Alright, I've added the Life Orb and Choice Scarf set skeletons, and thanks to rem, this only needs one more stamp, and then it can be moved to OU.

I'm in favor of keeping SubSeed, but I have some issues with the set as a whole. I don't think Sludge Bomb should be the main option, you run into bulky waters far more then you run into grass types at the very least Energy Ball or Grass Knot should at least be slash on to the set. I also don't think its to effective with its current ev spread, due to fact that I couldn't even set up on pokemon who should be no problem for it such as electric types who would end up just breaking its subs with even Thunderbolt. I would suggest something along the lines of Calm nature with 236 HP/120 Spd/152 SDef. It allows Roserade to sub up on most special moves it resist up to modest Magnezone, as the main selling point of this set is that it can set up spikes while in the process of Subseeding means it needs to be bulkier to achieve that. I think everything else looks fine, and I support LO Roserade so approved by me.