Heatran (Antilead, with rocks (!!!))

Well, antilead heatran is rather popular now. I may have, or may have not made this set first (I did make it on my own, however someone else could have done the same before me). So basically, I'm not taking credit if this turns out to be good, but I didn't copy anyone. Anyways, this is my try at contributing. After using this beast for a bit over a month (quite a bit or so before the suspect ladder was introduced), I have to say this lead can beat most other leads AND get up stealth rocks without being a suicide lead. Heatran can return midgame and destroy stuff with life orb, or specs, and threaten with explosion to beat blissey.

[SET]
name: Antilead
move 1: Magma Storm
move 2: Overheat
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Stealth Rock
item: Life Orb/Choice Specs
nature: Modest
evs: 66 Hp/252 SpA/192 Spe

Edit: 202 Hp/252 SpA/56 Spe is an option for more bulk. Outruns 16 Spe gyarados and doesn't lose to other leads it would have beaten. However, 252 Spe SD scizor and adamant 244 breloom beat you.

Calcs w/ 202 Hp spread: (I don't know about KO chances)

Timid LO 252 SpA Starmie Surf: 85.8% - 101.9% Likely survival. Hydro pump OHKOs 80% of the time.

Lead Celebi EP: 91.2% - 108.3%

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/heatran

Against top leads:

Azelf: Most will taunt or SR, so magma storm will stop them from doing anything if they taunt first, as the vortex destroys their sash. Alternatively, you can SR on the first turn, if they SR, you do too, then you can trap (even resisted LO magma storms really weaken heatran's counters with SR) their switch.

Side Calc: Magma Storm vs. LOgyara: 42.3% - 49.8% (Add 25% and you have a ruined pokemon)

Aerodactyl: I can almost be certain they will not EQ because of shuca and the fact that they want to taunt or SR. You can weaken with magma storm, and switch to a good counter.

Machamp: LO Overheat- 96.1% - 113.4%. Specs does 100% min.

Metagross: LO Overheat does 98.1% - 115.4% (with occa) Specs is a certain KO. Use HP grass on the switch to hit their water!

Gliscor: You can KO. It is unlikely that they will attack first. Either way, suicune can handle this bat.

Jirachi: They trick? Cool, you KO them regardless and get a revenge killer. You can also use HP grass or magma storm to hit and trap their switch.

Infernape: They cannot KO with fakeout + CC. You can SR while they do, take a CC while breaking the sash, switch to starmie, and KO.

Tyranitar: Set up rocks, then switch to counter.

Starmie: dammit scofield. Suicune mentioned below can set up on it.

Heatran: Ironic loss here. Bulky waters make good switches. Vaporeon, starmie, ect who already should be paired with heatran.

Roserade: This is the best function of scarf, but without it, crocune can absorb the sleep and switch back to heatran for the KO. Toxic spikes aren't as much as bother to suicune due to rest.

Loses to: Heatran, Starmie, ttar, and Roserade. All of which can be stopped with the suicune.

Wins/gets favorable start against: Azelf, Machamp, Metagross, Infernape, Aerodactyl, Gliscor, jirachi.

Why this set deserves to be on-site:
-Antilead that can take down/give favorable start to almost all other leads.
-Be antilead AND get up stealth rocks as reliably as the Stealth Rock heatran
-Can return midgame and wreck havok, not be useless.
-Incorporates more offense to a team without compromising the importance of a lead and Stealth Rock
-Can deal with most counters in one poke.

Additional Comments:
-Choice specs solidifies KOs, but makes getting SR unreliable.
-Scarf beats roserade with magma storm.

Teammates and Counters:
-Crocune, or restalking suicune, can absorb status from roserade and can switch back to heatran, who can KO. Crocune also doesn't mind toxic spikes due to rest. With the follow EVs, (240 Hp/216 Def/60 SpD) suicune can switch into starmie's hydro pump, take a t-bolt and calm mind, and survive to rest and set up, making it the perfect switch to starmie, infernape, ttar, and aerodactyl. Seismic toss still 5HKOs, you don't lose too much bulk, ect.
-Scarf starmie is excellent. You can finish off weakened aerodactyl, 2HKO ttar/scizor on the switch, t-bolt DDdos, trick CMcune, ect. Starmie deals with shuca tran that go with machamp.
-Starmie may be ttar bait after a KO (on nape or dactyl), so vaporeon or another water also makes a great parter.

Don't kill me, it's my first attempt here.

This seems pretty cool, except you do lose to Aerodactyl because if it knows you don't have Shuca it will attack first. Never assume that the opponent doesn't know your set in doing lead matchups, especially since you face people multiple times on the ladder. Question though: Why so much SPE? I can't see anything of particular importance sitting at that speed range. Running enough speed to outrun the standard lead Metagross and then putting the rest into HP gives you some nice bulk, and actually lets you survive things LO Surf and non-boosted Hydro Pump from Starmie and unboosted Earth Power from Celebi. Just something to consider.

Why so much SPE? I can't see anything of particular importance sitting at that speed range. Running enough speed to outrun the standard lead Metagross and then putting the rest into HP gives you some nice bulk, and actually lets you survive things LO Surf and non-boosted Hydro Pump from Starmie and unboosted Earth Power from Celebi. Just something to consider.

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That's true, but the only thing is that you lose to 252 Spe SD scizor and adamant breloom. I'm not quite sure if 34 HP would make up for that. But it can still be an alternate 202 Hp/252 SpA/56 Spe Modest spread.

Metagross will always die to Overheat regardless of your held item unless it has Occa (you didn't mention Occa, but I assume you factored that in your calc). Also, I'm pretty sure Lum Berry is more common on Leadgross then Occa these days due to the rise in popularity of Machamp leads, so more often then not Metagross will be switching out.

I'm not sure how common max speed SD Scizor is, but I suppose that's a concern. Breloom really isn't though, no one in their right mind will switch one in on Heatran, and if you switch Heatran in on it it's just going to be behind a sub and will end up sporing or focus punching you anyway. That said, I'll wait for input from the other QC folks; if they say the ability to possibly beat starmie and celebi isn't worth failing to outrun certain things and not liking a scarf as much, then that's fine.

Metagross will always die to Overheat regardless of your held item unless it has Occa (you didn't mention Occa, but I assume you factored that in your calc). Also, I'm pretty sure Lum Berry is more common on Leadgross then Occa these days due to the rise in popularity of Machamp leads, so more often then not Metagross will be switching out.

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The calc shown is with occa. Lum is more popular, but LO Hp grass, with prediction, can eliminate vappy on the switch, and really hurt suicune and starmie badly. Adding 202 HP calcs.

FlareBlitz said:

I'm not sure how common max speed SD Scizor is, but I suppose that's a concern. Breloom really isn't though, no one in their right mind will switch one in on Heatran, and if you switch Heatran in on it it's just going to be behind a sub and will end up sporing or focus punching you anyway. That said, I'll wait for input from the other QC folks; if they say the ability to possibly beat starmie and celebi isn't worth failing to outrun certain things and not liking a scarf as much, then that's fine.

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I was going to say the same thing, but I think he was talking about switching in mid game.

The Explosion/Earth Power slashes seem strange, you don't mention them as helping with any of the other leads. It's got some cool points (OHKOing Azelf through sash, and having a good shot against Metagross/Machamp at the same time), but the 70% acc of Magma Storm and the fact that you're not guaranteed KOs on Machamp/Occa Meta without Specs is a bit of a turn off.. Magma Storm already has a paragraph in AC for the normal lead set, maybe a bulky EV spread and LO could simply be added to AC?

Despite the loss of coverage, having magma storm and overheat is very useful. Magma storm stops switch ins to bring in a good counter (and deals excellent damage to even things like gyarados, mence, and ape all take enormous damage), where overheat is the force that brings a high, 93-113% and 98-115% chance of instant KO to machamp and metagross respectively with life orb.

Earth Power and Explosion were put there just as options, they aren't needed for the set's function as an antilead. This set is specifically for destroying other leads and gaining a favorable advantage from the start with overheat for power and magma storm for trapping and sash breaking (roserade after a suicune takes the sleep and azelf by surprise) I think it is different enough in strategy and moveset to warrant a difference.

What exactly did you face that it did poorly against?

Ive used LO tran lead for a while actually, it works and does what its suppose to do. The thing is you have both overheat and magma storm..these two moves are completely different in the way they function. Having them both on the same set is a little redundant, as magma storm is used to trap a counter and explode on it. Overheat is used to score OHKOs on leads such as machamp and occa berry metagross. Also failing to mention explosion anywhere on this set is pretty fail.

With that being said I dont think this actually should merit its own analysis, instead it can be mentioned in the current tran lead, with a suggestion of life orb to try and act as an anti lead.

Anyways the set ive used is overheat / hp grass / SR / explosion and had a lot of success with it

I'm with Rem, except instead of mentioning it as an option on the lead set, I'd like to see it mentioned on the Life Orb set.

I discussed a bit about this set with Seven Deadly Sins yesterday, and yeah, after having analyzed this thoroughly I'll have to reject it -- rem hit the nail on the head with what he stated, so I will base on that too. However, I do think the change of the nature and item deserve a mention in AC on the LO Heatran set, as it is the one geared toward causing damage to the opponent in a constant way rather than concentrating on supporting the lead position with a hazard and the berry. With that being said, I'll close the thread and take care of the rest.