Machamp (Update)

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Machamp

Hi, C&C. Finally got all of the sets written and ready for proofreading. If you have any comments, or just want to randomly check it (even if you're not a GP member) then feel free to do so! I welcome all feedback. Cheers.

Status:
Done (Ready to be Uploaded)
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[Overview]

<p>Machamp is perhaps the most frustrating Pokemon to face in all of DPP OU. His unique ability, No Guard, a gigantic base 130 Attack stat, and a 100% accurate DynamicPunch ensure Machamp's position among the best of the tier. A perfectly accurate Stone Edge alongside Payback and the elemental punches rounds out Machamp's type coverage and make him a force to be reckoned with. Little can stand up to Machamp's onslaught for long and oftentimes the only way to bring him down is to sacrifice one of your own Pokemon.</p>

<p>For all of the strength Machamp possesses, he is a slow creature with only modest defenses. Despite the fact that almost nothing can OHKO Machamp, virtually every offensive Pokemon can 2HKO him with a neutral STAB attack. Machamp always poses the greatest threat to a team when he is just out of KO range for what he comes in on. Once sufficiently weakened, though, Machamp tends to serve as little more than a speed bump for most Pokemon with his low Speed stat. The ease with which one can fit Machamp into a team, however, combined with his immense power and reasonable bulk, keeps him a staple of OU and something that every team needs to be able to deal with somehow.</p>

[SET]
name: Attacking Lead
move 1: DynamicPunch
move 2: Payback
move 3: Bullet Punch
move 4: Ice Punch / Stone Edge
item: Lum Berry
ability: No Guard
nature: Adamant
evs: 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With this set, Machamp functions as the premier attacking lead of the OU metagame. Machamp's unique mix of confusion, respectable bulk, access to priority, and excellent type coverage come together to force innumerable switches. Machamp nearly always either KOes or immensely weakens an opponent before he is forced out or KOed in return.</p>

<p>100% accurate DynamicPunch is the backbone of this set and is why Machamp is so annoying and potent as a lead. Leads weak to Fighting, such as Shuca Berry Heatran, are beaten outright, while even defensive Pokemon like Hippowdon and Swampert will be rendered useless 50% of the time by confusion. Payback gives Machamp nearly perfect coverage with DynamicPunch and lets him 2HKO Focus Sash Azelf in combination with Bullet Punch, Machamp's priority move of choice for this set. Payback also serves an important role when a Ghost-type Pokemon inevitably switches in to take DynamicPunch, beating offensive Rotom-A and Gengar with ease. Ice Punch is the last move of choice so that lead Dragonite and Gliscor don't have free reign over Machamp. Stone Edge can be used instead to beat Gyarados switch-ins as well as to have a stronger attack to use against Zapdos.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs may seem strange, but they serve a very specific purpose. 240 HP and 16 Special Defense EVs guarantee that max Special Attack Naive Focus Sash Azelf will never OHKO Machamp with Psychic, allowing him to 2HKO Azelf in return. 4 Speed EVs are used to outspeed minimum-Speed Blissey, with all of the rest of the EVs invested in Attack to hit as hard as possible. An Adamant nature is used to boost Machamp's already stellar Attack stat. Lum Berry is the item of choice for this set, enabling Machamp to beat opposing Machamp, Roserade, and Smeargle leads or to take a Will-O-Wisp from Rotom-A and return fire with a super effective Payback.</p>

<p>Only one common lead fares well against Machamp, and that's Lum Berry Metagross. For this and other reasons, Shuca Berry Heatran makes one of the best partners to this set. Heatran sets up Stealth Rock reliably, covers both of Machamp's weaknesses, and can immediately threaten Metagross leads with Fire Blast. Azelf leads have been evolving to cope with the rise of Attacking Lead Machamp by carrying Colbur Berry or even Life Orb as their item. It can be valuable to take advantage of these set adjustments by having partners such as Tyranitar to switch into Azelf. It is generally important to place Machamp on teams that need to secure offensive momentum early in the game by forcing the opponent to choose between sacrificing a Pokemon's HP or setting up early entry hazards. For this reason, Pokemon that take advantage of either the absence of entry hazards or weakened defensive Pokemon are excellent partners. Dragon Dance Dragonite and Tyranitar greatly benefit from the pressure Machamp can put on Swampert, for example. Similarly, if Machamp can eliminate or severely weaken Rotom-A, Pokemon like Swords Dance Lucario and Dragon Dance Gyarados that take advantage of its absence will fare much better.</p>

[SET]
name: Substitute + 3 Attacks
move 1: Substitute
move 2: DynamicPunch
move 3: Payback
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
ability: No Guard
nature: Adamant
evs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Machamp forces innumerable switches when he comes into play, and these switches can be taken advantage of with Substitute. The threat of Machamp's powerful DynamicPunch lures in Ghost-types, such as Rotom-A, which will be put in a very awkward position by Substitute. It can no longer burn Machamp and runs a very serious risk of being KOed if it tries to break the Substitute. This is a very common outcome when a player is put against a Substitute Machamp; they must sacrifice a Pokemon in order to actually force him out.</p>

<p>Substitute defines this set, with perfect-accuracy DynamicPunch and Payback providing mandatory near-perfect coverage. Stone Edge is recommended in the last slot to provide the best super effective coverage for Machamp. Ice Punch is only useful if you're particularly worried about Gliscor, as otherwise Stone Edge achieves all of the necessary KOs, such as against Gyarados, Dragonite, and Zapdos.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Adamant, as usual, is used to provide Machamp a significant boost to his Attack stat, while the EVs are chosen to maximize Attack, bulk up the Substitute's HP, and to outpace 0 Speed Skarmory. Leftovers restores some of Machamp's HP that is spent setting up Substitutes and is favored over Lum Berry because Substitute blocks status.</p>

<p>Good partners for this Machamp are those that can weaken Machamp's typical switch-ins so that he can finish them off. Heatran is a very good partner to this Machamp, as he can destroy Skarmory and is immune to two of the status effects that Machamp doesn't like once his Substitute is broken. Choice Band Tyranitar also makes an excellent wallbreaker to pair with this Machamp, as not even the mighty Skarmory can avoid a 2HKO from his STAB Stone Edge. This Machamp also appreciates paralysis support so that it can outspeed opponents and even attempt a sweep. Paralysis also doubles with DynamicPunch's confusion to make it even more difficult for the opponent to move. Substitute + Thunder Wave Jirachi makes an excellent partner with its ability to lure and paralyze Pokemon like Heatran that Machamp would love to be able to hit with his attacks.</p>

[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: DynamicPunch
move 4: Payback / Stone Edge / Ice Punch
item: Leftovers
ability: No Guard
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Machamp makes an excellent status absorber and general tank with his respectable bulk, immense type coverage, and ability to force a number of switches with his raw power alone. DynamicPunch is one of the most prominent reasons why this set is as viable as it is, because the 50% chance for opponents to hit themselves can give Machamp free turns to use Rest and heal off any damage he's taken.</p>

<p>Rest and Sleep Talk are standard fare on a RestTalk set. Sleep Talk is especially useful when used in conjunction with the low-PP DynamicPunch, as it will use its own PP instead of the actual attacking move's. Payback is arguably the best second attack, as it hits Rotom-A and other Ghost-types super effectively and also rounds out Machamp's type coverage. Stone Edge and Ice Punch can be used as well, however, so that Machamp does not become setup fodder for Gyarados / Zapdos and Gliscor, respectively.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread is very simple, maximizing Machamp's HP and Attack stats with 4 EVs invested into Speed to beat 0 Speed Blissey. An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 Def can be used in order to take on the less common Choice Band Tyranitar with ease, but at the cost of a lot of offensive power. This Machamp uses Leftovers to add to his durability over time and an Adamant nature to make his attacks sting as much as possible. Guts is a viable alternative to No Guard on this set because Machamp is putting himself to sleep, guaranteeing the Guts boost. If Guts is chosen, Low Kick becomes the attack of choice for hitting most of the tier relatively hard and having a lot of PP. No Guard is generally superior to Guts, however, because without DynamicPunch's confusion, Machamp becomes setup bait for numerous common OU threats.</p>

<p>The secondary move choice determines teammates for this Machamp. Without Payback, Rotom-A will be a thorn in Machamp's side, so strong Pursuit users, such as Tyranitar and Scizor, will help. Without Stone Edge, Zapdos and Gyarados will have their way with this Machamp. Tyranitar, again, as well as Starmie, will help keep these Pokemon at bay. Lastly, Ice Punch allows you to function against Zapdos and Gliscor, but leaves you vulnerable to Gyarados. Vaporeon, Starmie, or offensive Suicune can be useful here to deal with Gyarados while retaining momentum.</p>

[SET]
name: Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: DynamicPunch
move 3: Payback
move 4: Stone Edge / Ice Punch
item: Leftovers / Lum Berry
ability: No Guard
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 128 Atk / 128 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Machamp is a terrifically powerful Pokemon, and with a Bulk Up or two under his belt, he becomes immensely dangerous if faster special attackers like Azelf, Jirachi, and Togekiss are removed. Machamp makes excellent use of a Bulk Up set particularly because DynamicPunch's confusion forces switches that allow him to set up repeatedly.</p>

<p>Bulk Up goes without saying, while DynamicPunch functions as the mandatory STAB move on this set and can force a few switches to allow further setup. Payback coupled with Stone Edge provides perfect neutral coverage except against the rare Toxicroak. Ice Punch can be used over Stone Edge if Gliscor is of particular concern, but comes at the cost of no longer hitting Gyarados for super effective damage.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This set's EV spread is chosen to maximize Machamp's natural bulk to facilitate setting up Bulk Ups, while outrunning 0 Speed Skarmory. The item can either be Leftovers for added durability during Machamp's setup stages or Lum Berry so Rotom-A's Will-O-Wisp will not end Machamp's sweep. Adamant is taken as Machamp's nature, since even without max EV investment, after a Bulk Up or two it will be boosted to very impressive levels.</p>

<p>Machamp appreciates entry hazard support in the form of Stealth Rock, as it will soften enemy switch-ins into KO range after one Bulk Up boost. Heatran, as expected, is an excellent teammate to set up Stealth Rock with his complementary typing and ability to threaten both Skarmory and Rotom-A. Paralysis support from the likes of Togekiss, Jirachi, and Celebi turn this set into a potent sweeper. Dual Screen support from Azelf, Rotom-A, or Cresselia is also beneficial for this Machamp, as it will allow him to set up multiple Bulk Up boosts when he comes in on the Dark-type Pokemon they lure.</p>

<p>This set also has a very useful niche in that it makes an excellent recipient for Agility Baton Passed from Zapdos. This is especially effective because Zapdos tends to lure in Tyranitar, which this Machamp can be Baton Passed in on, enabling further setup. An EV spread of 128 HP / 128 Attack / 252 Speed should be used with this strategy to hit 418 Speed after Agility, enough to outpace Choice Scarf Heatran. A Lum Berry is also recommended as it will cure Machamp of any status effects he receives while switching in, such as Toxic from Blissey or Will-O-Wisp from Rotom-A. Furthermore, Payback should be replaced with Ice Punch due to Machamp's Speed being too great to take advantage of Payback. Lastly, because of the absence of a powerful Dark-type attack, something that can trap and eliminate Rotom-A, such as Scizor or Tyranitar, is necessary, otherwise it will stop your plan cold.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Payback
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: ThunderPunch / Bullet Punch
item: Choice Band
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Just when you thought Machamp was powerful enough, someone decided to slap a Choice Band on it and rip things up. Even Pokemon that resist Fighting-type attacks will take a surprisingly large amount of damage from Close Combat, and many will be OHKOed or 2HKOed by Machamp's coverage moves. All of this, in conjunction with Machamp's bulk and many chances to switch in, enables this set to threaten the opponent immensely before going down.</p>

<p>Guts as an ability may be surprising on Machamp, which has No Guard for DynamicPunch and Stone Edge, but it allows Machamp to absorb the burns aimed at other Machamp sets and become a true offensive behemoth. Furthermore, Close Combat fits in with Choice Band Machamp's style better than DynamicPunch anyway. Machamp is a hit-and-run attacker, so the defense drops from Close Combat won't be too much of a hindrance. Furthermore, Close Combat has a higher Base Power than DynamicPunch, making Machamp hit even harder. Payback rounds out Machamp's coverage by covering Ghost-types, going so far as OHKOing defensive Rotom-A on the switch. Ice Punch is for the Flying-type Pokemon that resist Machamp's STAB. ThunderPunch and Bullet Punch both get a mention for the last slot, as each has its advantages over the other. ThunderPunch is recommended so that Gyarados cannot set up freely on you if you can predict him switching in, while Bullet Punch is a powerful priority move that can be used to snipe weakened and faster foes such as Dragon Dance Dragonite.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>No Guard, in conjunction with DynamicPunch, can be run instead of Guts, but you will have serious issues with status crippling Machamp and turning him into dead weight. The EV spread maximizes Machamp's HP and Attack stat, with 4 EVs in Speed to outpace minimum-Speed Blissey. 128 Speed EVs taken out of HP can be used in Speed to place Machamp at 176 Speed, enough to outpace 0 Speed Skarmory. Choice Band is a given to boost Machamp's Attack stat, which with an Adamant nature, reaches an impressive value of 591.</p>

<p>This Machamp likes entry hazards above all else. Stealth Rock in particular helps him, given that he forces numerous switches with his might. Additionally, this Machamp likes pairing up with powerful special attackers, such as Shaymin, Gengar, and Heatran, since he will murder Blissey without question and open up holes that they can exploit. Physical partners are also excellent with Machamp, as they will lure Will-O-Wisp and other status effects that Machamp can switch into for a Guts boost. Ultimately, this Machamp functions best on bulky offensive teams that can afford to take a few hits, as Fighting-type STAB has the tendency to give the opponents free turns when they switch in Ghost-types.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Machamp's quintessential partner is Heatran. Heatran resists both the types that Machamp is weak to and can incinerate both Skarmory and Rotom-A, two Pokemon that annoy Machamp. Additionally, Heatran often has many chances to absorb Will-O-Wisp from Rotom-A for a Flash Fire boost. Outside of Heatran, Machamp makes lots of friends with his 100% accurate DynamicPunch. This, combined with his ability to reliably handle threats such as Tyranitar, allows Machamp to fit into many different types of teams. Tyranitar makes a great partner for his ability to destroy Rotom-A with Pursuit and take on threats such as Zapdos with relative impunity. Stealth Rock is also something that should always be in play with Machamp. Fortunately for Machamp, Heatran stands a foot above the crowd for setting it up and complements Machamp well with his typing and ability to deal with Machamp's typical checks. Besides Heatran, Azelf can be used in the lead position to set it up with reliability. Azelf can also set up Dual Screens for Machamp and then get him in for free by either scouting the switch-in with U-turn or using Explosion to force a double switch.</p>

<p>Machamp is a slow creature, so paralysis support is worth considering to bring opponents down to his level. Jirachi and Togekiss make fairly effective bulky partners for Machamp with their ability both to abuse Machamp's confusion with their flinching moves and to paralyze common switch-ins with Thunder Wave. Togekiss has a tendency to lure Tyranitar that Machamp can switch into and threaten with ease, made easier if Tyranitar has been paralyzed. Jirachi resists both of the types that Machamp is weak to and will lure in and paralyze Heatran, among others, which Machamp can OHKO later with DynamicPunch. When using paralysis support from these two Pokemon, Rotom-A will be particularly problematic for the team. When paralyzed, Payback hits Rotom-A for a pathetic 50 Base Power. Rotom-A can also threaten to burn Jirachi, which nullifies its offensive presence. Heatran returns to help with this problem as he can switch into predicted Will-O-Wisps and KO Rotom-A with a boosted Fire Blast.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Outside of the listed options for each set, Machamp actually has a fairly shallow movepool with just enough tricks to surprise people. Fire Punch is your best option against Heracross, which resists Machamp's typical Fighting- and Dark-type attacking combo. Heracross already has trouble switching into DynamicPunch due to confusion, though, and Stone Edge will 2HKO Heracross anyway. Fire Blast is an option as well because it hits Skarmory and Forretress much harder than Fire Punch, though it will not 2HKO Skarmory or OHKO Forretress without some EV investment thanks to Machamp's pitiful Special Attack stat. It's worth noting that No Guard makes Fire Blast never miss, which is a perk. Bullet Punch can find its way onto almost any set when priority is needed, but without STAB, it ends up being badly outclassed by Scizor in any position other than on a lead set.</p>

<p>Machamp has some novel supporting options that can be used to decent effect as well. Encore combined with Substitute in the lead position can be frustrating to your opponent. Toxic can also be used to reasonable effect on Machamp thanks to No Guard allowing it never to miss. Beyond those few moves, though, there's almost nothing else worth noting. Guts can be used on any set over No Guard, with options such as Low Kick and Close Combat available for Machamp to use. No Guard is basically superior for every set that has it listed, though, as the value of DynamicPunch's confusion generally far exceeds the benefits of having Guts.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Machamp has no true counters that see much use in DPP OU. Between DynamicPunch's confusion and Machamp's near-perfect type coverage with two moves, practically nothing enjoys switching into him. The best responses to Machamp are bulky Ghost- and Flying-type Pokemon that can take a hit and retaliate in some manner. Rotom-A immediately springs to mind as the #1 Ghost-type to take on Machamp. Machamp can 2HKO defensive Rotom-A, but will take serious damage in doing so, and with proper prediction may even lose. Gyarados can switch into Machamp with Intimidate and can even setup on him, but confusion can get in the way of this plan. Zapdos functions in a similar fashion to Gyarados, but with greater bulk and no Intimidate. Pressure will rapidly deplete DynamicPunch's 8 PP, though, and can be very problematic for a reckless Machamp. Roost makes Zapdos a more reliable check to Machamp over the course of the battle than Gyarados, and since both are weak to Stealth Rock, Pokemon like Forretress that can take a hit and get rid of Stealth Rock will work well against Machamp. Forretress can also Explode on Machamp once he has done his job.</p>

<p>A few UU Pokemon function as near-perfect Machamp responses, despite their low usage. Slowbro can take on Machamp very effectively thanks to Own Tempo, a resistance to Fighting-type attacks, and immense physical bulk. Similarly, Spiritomb is reasonably bulky, immune to Fighting-type attacks, and neutral to Payback; like with Zapdos, Spiritomb's Pressure will quickly deplete DynamicPunch's PP. Slowbro threatens Machamp with STAB Psychic, while Spiritomb can either attack or burn Machamp.</p>
 
I'm all for the removal of Encore Lead set. I'm not a QC member, but its pretty obvious that the Attacking Lead set is miles away better than that one. I would suggest changing the Attacking Lead set to "Lead" and giving Encore + Substitute its own section in Additional Comments.
 
It is, I agree, but according to June stats, the Encore Lead still (for whatever reason) sees a lot of usage. It is pretty important that we keep it on-site for reference to players who do use it. If it drops entirely off the radar later on, we can simply remove it then.
 
I'm all for the removal of Encore Lead set. I'm not a QC member, but its pretty obvious that the Attacking Lead set is miles away better than that one. I would suggest changing the Attacking Lead set to "Lead" and giving Encore + Substitute its own section in Additional Comments.

In Optional Changes would probably be better since it's an entirely different set altogether, but I also agree (and am not in QC).

Rising Dusk: I completely disagree. We should list sets because they are viable, not because they are used a lot. Smogon analyses cause usage, not the other way around.
 
Slash Stone Edge on attacking lead please. Still beats Roserade but most importantly, hurts Gyarados switch-ins. Ya, you're walled by Gliscor but just use a MixMence or some shit. Anyways, encore lead should be removed imo because, like cim said, attacking lead COMPLETELY outclasses it. Onto the bulk up set, I don't see the need for thunderpunch as an attack. it has shitty base power and stone edge is so much more useful. just my two cents, but otherwise good revamp so far ^^
 
I don't really play OU that much any more, but I was wondering why Guts/Low Kick weren't slashed on the ResTalk set.
 
Rising Dusk is correct, if a set is commonly used (and not absurd, yaaaay Ubers Magikarp lead analysis) it is important for the analysis to include it. This is because many players use the analyses as a reference to check what a Pokemon can do, and if we remove common sets they will not get the best information possible. And I doubt the encore lead is actually unviable if it gets significant use.
 
Rising Dusk is correct, if a set is commonly used (and not absurd, yaaaay Ubers Magikarp lead analysis) it is important for the analysis to include it. This is because many players use the analyses as a reference to check what a Pokemon can do, and if we remove common sets they will not get the best information possible. And I doubt the encore lead is actually unviable if it gets significant use.

I would actually argue that using Encore over the normal lead Machamp is absurd, and that people are using it entirely because they hear a lot of hype about "Machamp Lead" and then checked our outdated analysis for the set. Usage stats are hardly proof of efficacy; look at Ninjask and Electivire.
 
Bulk Up Machamp should by NO means be the last set. It is probably Machamp's most fearsome set, and should be ahead of RestTalk (which I will get to talking about in a second).

[SET]
name: Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: DynamicPunch
move 3: Payback
move 4: Ice Punch / Stone Edge
item: Leftovers / Lum Berry (or at least in AC)
ability: No Guard
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 128 Atk / 128 Spe
Ice Punch / T-Punch combo is irrelevant bullshit here.

Payback is most important secondary attack. Machamp will attack second alot, and it beats things like Rotom and Celebi. Ice Punch is the best third attack for Gliscor. Gyarados actually doesn't beat this set without Stone Edge, as with +1 Defense and Dynamicpunch's confusion, it is very shaky as a counter and you can always switch out of Bounce so it takes more Stealth Rock damage. Bounceless Gyarados actually always (barring extreme bad luck) loses to a +1 Defense Bulk Up Machamp if you Dynamicpunch first. Lum Berry helps against Rotom, so definately needs a mention. Also, outspeeding Skarmory on paper is necessary (I personally use 160 speed and 96 Attack, but the 178 > 177 > 176 rule applies here). You need to Dynamicpunch Skarmory before it can Brave Bird you (which doesnt come close to OHKO, but is nice). Brave Birdless Skarm always lose to you or take heavy damage trying to phaze.

[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: DynamicPunch
move 4: Payback / Stone Edge / Ice Punch
item: Leftovers
ability: No Guard
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 Def
The only reason why you should EVER use RestTalk Machamp is if you need to counter CB Tar and need a Status absorber (both conditions, not one). The current lame 252 / 252 Spread gets 2HKOed easily by CB Tyranitar's Earthquake or Aqua Tail. This spread does not (very small chance with Earthquake).
 
RaikouLover said:
Bulk Up Machamp should by NO means be the last set. It is probably Machamp's most fearsome set, and should be ahead of RestTalk (which I will get to talking about in a second).
They are listed in order based on usage, like they are supposed to be. I determined the order based on June Statistics, so it will not be changing.

As to the rest of your comments, some of them make sense. I can see trying to outspeed Skarmory on the BU set, but that's a Speed creep battle we really need to avoid. I can list in AC that "you can run 128 Speed to beat most Skarmory" and that will be sufficient. (We had a convention discussion on this in another thread in C&C) With your comments on the RestTalk set, Machamp loses a ton of offensive power. I could list an alternate, more defensive, EV spread in AC, but the offensive spread is more tuned for the current metagame since Choice Scarf Tyranitar sees 3 times more usage than Choice Band. We'll see what the rest of QC thinks.
 
128 Speed is extremely necessary. It's not really just for Skarmory you outspeed things like Scizor and Metagross as well, and other Machamp. The generic 252 / 252 Spread here is inefficient, since you don't gain any KOs with max attack, and you are boosting it anyway.

Set order needs to be based solely on viability. Usage statistics are based off of analysis order. If we have a set that clearly sucks (like when people were still using offensive Dragon Dance Dragonite w/o Extremespeed) but is used the most, it should not be the #1 set.
 
They are listed in order based on usage, like they are supposed to be. I determined the order based on June Statistics, so it will not be changing.

When did this become C&C Policy? Who says it's "supposed to be" this way? Last time I was active here, this was not the case, since analyses are a very strong cause of the usage stats, rather than the other way around. I remember this being a particularly big deal when the majority of users used Dragon Dance Outrage Dragonite when it had zero advantages over Salamence.

I would much rather set order be dictated by set effectiveness, rather than usage, since Smogon analyses are a cause of usage and thus we could run into some nasty chicken-and-egg problems.
 
I support moving Encore Lead to Optional Changes; I have never really been a fan of Smogon "promoting" inferior sets, even though Encore has its uses. Having it in OC allows people to still look it up if they face it, while taking off the emphasis on actually using it. I think the alternate EV spreads RaikouLover listed would make fine AC material. I also love Lum on the Bulk Up set, so that deserves a slash IMO.
 
Okay, I agree with the EV spread, I will add it to AC on the RestTalk set. I think, given that the Encore Lead gets 8% usage on Machamp, that we really should list it, but what CIM says about the "Anti-Lead" analysis current on-site impacting usage has a lot of merit. If it gets some more QC support for moving to OC, I'll definitely do just that.
 
Just a few details Rising_Dusk:
  • Here you can see what we removed from Machamp's analysis in the round #2 of Quality Control. As you can see, the removal of the Choice Band set is not contemplated, and right now, at this precise moment, I can't see a reason why we should consider to remove it, to be quite honest. So yeah, I would still like to see it listed. The power this Pokémon has is amazing, Guts + CC is a deadly combination, and hits really, really hard everything that not resists it.
  • I support moving Encore Lead to Optional Changes.
  • The mentioned spread 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe is definitely something to mention, I want to emphasize on this.

Once the OP is updated with the changes I've recommended, I'll stamp this update. Good job, Rising_Dusk ;)
 
I have done the following:

  • Moved Encore Lead to OC
  • Added back the Choice Band set (I agree with you, Sets)
  • Done everything else QCers asked for except one thing as mentioned below.
I disagree with this:
Setsuna. said:
The mentioned spread 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe is definitely something to mention, I want to emphasize on this.
The reason we would run Speed is because we're fighting a Speed creep battle with Tyranitar, Blissey, Skarmory, and other such slow things. I will mention that "Speed can be added" to the set's EVs in order to outspeed some things, but I really disagree with just arbitrarily throwing out 128 Speed EVs and saying that it's "optimal" or something when it's not. Please refer to this discussion thread on the matter.
 
The reason we would run Speed is because we're fighting a Speed creep battle with Tyranitar, Blissey, Skarmory, and other such slow things. I will mention that "Speed can be added" to the set's EVs in order to outspeed some things, but I really disagree with just arbitrarily throwing out 128 Speed EVs and saying that it's "optimal" or something when it's not. Please refer to this discussion thread on the matter.

No. Speed on Machamp is optimal. Outspeeding Skarm means you 2HKO with Choice Band.. or Dynamicpunch it and confuse it with the bulk up set. Yes, we understand there is a lot of shit around that 180ish mark. However, from analysis standpoint it needs to be said that Machamp must be in that bracket. You can simply use the 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe and say "adding extra EVs in speed will help increase your chances of outspeeding Skarmory." That battle actually IS important. If you go first, Machamp beats SKarmory. If it doesn't it loses. Point blank.

Also, for Bulk up when you change it, 252 HP / 128 Atk / 128 Spe is more optimal then 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe since you are boosting Atk and Def with Bulk up.
 
And I will mention that it's very important to outspeed Skarmory, and that 128 EVs helps with it, but I'm not listing it in the spread itself. Skarmory used to run 16 Speed, then 36, and now some people run 72. 128 Speed EVs on Machamp only let you outspeed 0 Speed Skarmory, which basically doesn't exist. Listing those 128 EVs does no good for the set, but I will indeed mention them in the write-up.
 
To clarify: 128 Speed would not cause Speed creep in analyses. EV spreads which outspeed min speed variants of other Pokemon are allowed, and you would be able to mention in AC that increasing the speed allows you to outspeed more Skarmory. It is only Speed creep if the Skarmory analysis reacts and tries to add more speed, causing the Machamp analysis to want more. The current Skarmory analysis will be changed (likely to 0 Speed, other than on Taunt) if the proposed guidelines go through.

Also, 128 EVs will certainly help outspeed many Skarmory:
| Skarmory | Speed EV | None | 43.1 |
so if it really is that important, I would suggest using the spread.
 
eric the espeon said:
To clarify: 128 Speed would not cause Speed creep in analyses. EV spreads which outspeed min speed variants of other Pokemon are allowed, and you would be able to mention in AC that increasing the speed allows you to outspeed more Skarmory. It is only Speed creep if the Skarmory analysis reacts and tries to add more speed, causing the Machamp analysis to want more. The current Skarmory analysis will be changed (likely to 0 Speed, other than on Taunt) if the proposed guidelines go through.

Also, 128 EVs will certainly help outspeed many Skarmory:
| Skarmory | Speed EV | None | 43.1 |
so if it really is that important, I would suggest using the spread.
Oh, so the general ruling was in agreement with my post in that thread? I thought that everyone had strayed away from outspeeding no-speed variants of Pokemon, but if what you say is indeed the case, then I'll gladly add the Speed back in. We should really have "final rulings" on some of these conventions so that there aren't mix-ups like this. (That Speed creep thread was kind of left hanging)
 
Sorry for being able to conclude the thread earlier and leaving it hanging, if not for my vacation it would have been decided sooner. From the way I see it going, it would be extremely strange for this kind of spread to be disallowed.
 
QCstamp.png


Or

Approved (2/3)

And yeah Rising_Dusk, please update the Substitute + 3 attacks sets with the given spread ;)
 
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