Salamence is Uber.

Curtains · Jul 16, 2010

Discussion for salamence to ubers-

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/salamence

1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?

2.Will stall be a dominant force?

3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?

4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal? (after about post 270 the mod said you cant answer this question)

5.How does Salamence do in ubers?

6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?

7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?

8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?

9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?

10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?

Slater · Jul 16, 2010

Flygon and dragonite will be running sets more similar to salamences IMO cause they won't be outclassed for those moveset

kokoloko · Jul 16, 2010

If you had played the suspect ladder you would know stall is not going to be that dominant. People keep thinking Mence was this amazing stallbreaker - it wasn't.

M Dragon · Jul 16, 2010

I liked the standard metagame much more than the suspect metagame, so I don't really like this, but if we think latias is uber (i think it's OU, but whatever), Salamence should be uber too.
Shaymin, Dragonite and Breloom are gonna be used a lot more

Aura Guardian · Jul 16, 2010

1, 2, 3, 6, and possibly 7 can be answered by the Suspect Ladder.

Scizor will be dethroned by Heatran while Shaymin (Land Forme) and Uxie might rise to OU from BL and UU.

Stall will not be dominant. Heatran, Dragonite, and Flygon are thinking this is a great day.

As for #4: It was quicker, certainly.

Blue_Tornado · Jul 16, 2010

I don't see why we need this pre-metagame discussion when we've already had a metagame that has developed without Mence for a few months now. I guess having this sort of thing is bog-standard anyway, but honestly, I don't see the need for this.

So, I guess same thing happened first on the suspect ladder will happen here too - people hype Gengar, Vappy and Mixgon when SpD Tran takes control of the metagame soon enough, then grass-water-fire core will be the only thing you'll be seeing. Y'know things like Heatran Cune Rade and Heatran Starmie Rade.

Heatran is pretty much the new OU Venusaur, you need him for a stable core most of the time.

Boondocker · Jul 16, 2010

Curtains said:
Discussion for salamence to ubers-

1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
offenice teams will no longer be forced to carry scarf 100+ pokes, scizor will lose his top spot, infernape will rise
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
no, there are plenty of good wallbreakers left, dragonite is a better wallbreaker then salamence was
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
shaymin,flygon,celebi
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
i dont like it but at least it was fast
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
not too bad actually. im no uber expert but dragon is a great stab to have there and his speed lets him outrun certian foes rayquaza cant
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
scizzy
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
shaymin
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
as good as any other
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
he was because he was overpowering ou

Aqueos · Jul 16, 2010

STALL FUN I can finally take my stall team out of suspect and throw into ou, ready to laugh at wallbreakers. In short Stall rules supreme. In ubers....... Nothing? Yay for shaymin anyway, one of my favorite pokes.

Lorenz · Jul 16, 2010

1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
One less dragon. It'll be just like playing suspect ladder on shoddy pretty much.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
Nope, again, stall wasn't the only strategy in the suspect ladder.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
More like what pokemon won't be necessary on a team anymore to revenge it.
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
No comment.
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
Don't play Ubers, have no opinion.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Well, seeing as nothing truly countered it I can't think of anything. Anything that revenges it can also revenge other things so I doubt it'll affect those guys too much. Maybe a lack of Weavile? Don't see him too often either way. Sala's biggest problem was residual damage from LO, rocks, sand storm and the like and I can guarantee those aren't going anywhere.
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
Can't think of any.
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
Not really, BW is right around the corner, I'm caring less and less about the 4th Gen metagame the more info we get on it. Plus work is sending me overseas so I'm taking a forced hiatus from the game.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
Wasn't the whole reason it's Uber-ness was under suspect that it could kill the entire metagame in 1-2 hits with little to no preparation?

DDRMaster · Jul 16, 2010

Curtains said:
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?

I can't say I agree with Salamence being banned but from what I saw from lurking in the Suspect Thread, I don't think it would have gone the other way with the old method. So since it seems that it got the same result in less time, I think it worked great.

Curtains said:
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?

I don't think Salamence should have been banned because I've always been able to deal with it. Obviously, it has no hard counter but I was usually able to do things like predict a Draco Meteor and switch to Blissey and then switch to Skarmory to force it out (-2 Fire Blast wouldn't 2HKO standard Skarmory). I was also going to try to use Bronzong to Trick a Lagging Tail onto it so it would always move last but Lagging Tail isn't programmed into Shoddy 1. I figured that it would have also been able to cripple (and possibly kill) its most common switch-ins like Heatran, Magnezone, and Infernape.

Nachos · Jul 16, 2010

1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?

Every average player will start using easy to use Heatran/W/G cores, which will piss a lot of people off. Grass types and Dragonite will see more usage.

2.Will stall be a dominant force?

Depends on who plays it. Players used to stall will win a much larger majority of their matches with the biggest threat to the style gone. Players just starting stall will drop off eventually.

3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?

Shaymin, Celebi, Breloom and Dragonite.

4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?

I prefered the old process.

5.How does Salamence do in ubers?

It does fine.

6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?

Scizor.

7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?

Shaymin will certainly become OU.

8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?

No, I believe that Deoxys-D should have been tested before Salamence, as its tiering may have had an impact on Salamence.

9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?

Salamence wasn't a good candidate for suspect testing as there was a neagtive vibe surrounding it at the time, and this may have led to influenced decisions. It was also extremely overhyped in practice.

10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?

Nothing, people need to stop being ban happy. I wouldn't mind Jirachi being booted though.

PallyHeroRush52 · Jul 16, 2010

Thank god, now my Swampert doesn't have to eat any more Draco Meteors on the switch.

JSND · Jul 16, 2010

please dont angry with me since this is just my opinion
salamence banning make the metagame worser for me
well its just i think he is not deserve to be uber somehow

alamaster · Jul 16, 2010

1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?

Less steels needed to wall dragon attacks, pokemon that were previously hindered by mence such as Shaymin will see more use.

2.Will stall be a dominant force?

I don't think so. Mence wasn't the greatest stall breaker, there are still much more threatening pokemon out there to do the job.

3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?

Shaymin, Dragonite, Machamp, and a ton of things that don't like its dragon assaults.

4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?

I dislike it greatly. I would much rather give the power to the users that are qualified than a handful of users that are extremely qualified. I don't think their opinion can represent the opinions of many since it seems all of them wanted mence gone. It makes the users feel small and unimportant when it comes to the whole suspect process.

5.How does Salamence do in ubers?

It does well, a lot of people believe that it will be outclassed by Rayquaza and that may be somewhat true, it still has a higher base speed. They can work well together since they generally have the same counters that won't like getting worn down by one and then seeing the other as well.

6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?

Scizor, probably some other steel types as well.

7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?

Shaymin, Venusaur, Gallade, probably some other pokemon with base 85-90 speed as well.

8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?

Absolutely not.

9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?

I don't believe it is a good candidate for ubers because from my experience I've never had trouble stopping it and it just doesn't pose any uber qualities to me like the last suspects did.

10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?

None.

ENZ0 · Jul 16, 2010

I honestly didn't like the focus of the Suspect Metagame around FWG cores (it bored me), and enjoyed the Standard Metagame much more. It seemed exciting to predict around Salamence imo lol. But, after Latias went Uber it was reasonable for Salamence to follow her.

420 · Jul 16, 2010

at this rate all of OU is going to be in Ubers and then they'll have to make a new ban tier for ubers to get rid of kyogre -_-

Arcticblast · Jul 16, 2010

Curtains said:
1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame? Thank god, no more Salamence... will be what a lot of people think. Fewer Heatran will run Dragon Pulse or HP Ice, possibly

2.Will stall be a dominant force? Never was, never will be.

3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence? Dragonite. It's no longer outclassed. Other Pokemon include Shaymin, Machamp, etc.

6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use? I don't really know, but there WILL be a noticeable drop in Ice moves for now.

7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning? Uxie.

8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence? Not with BW coming so soon.

10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose? I'd like to see Jirachi gone, but the metagame should stay ban-free for a while.

I think Salamence might start using Hydro Pump in Ubers to an extent, it uses the rain.

Nozizaki · Jul 16, 2010

1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
Dragonite and Flygon will see considerably more play.

2.Will stall be a dominant force?
I play Wi-Fi, and honestly, I don't see stall. Mixmence was really the only wallbreaker, and Mixmence (IMO) is absolutely horrid.

3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Nothing, most pokes thrived off it's presences, Ice Shard's and Starmie's were the best counters.

4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
I didn't see any of it, or pay attention to it.

5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
Don't play it, but just like Garchomp, it's not ready for it. Only put there because they were so dominant in OU.

6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Mixmence

7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
As a result? Nothing. Some poke's in UU shouldn't be in UU though. I expect that a few will make a jump to OU or BL before 5th gen is full swing.

8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
I don't know. 4th gen is closing and it doesn't affect the metagame all that much.

9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
It wasn't because in Ubers it will be beat out by some many other poke's, and isn't fast enough to compete.

10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
Breloom, I am one of the only people running a Breloom counter, and without it Breloom demolishes entire teams.

My closing thoughts: I hope Mence enjoys it's stay in Ubers. Mixmence will hopefully die off, and maybe a much better Physical Mence will return to OU. I still want my Garchomp back :justin:

kd24 · Jul 16, 2010

absolutely everything in suspect will rehappen near the top of the ladder, and overall, i don't think much will change other than fwg becoming more dominant over steel/dragon

Dura · Jul 16, 2010

It wasn't because in Ubers it will be beat out by some many other poke's, and isn't fast enough to compete.

A blank is worth more than this post.

drcossack · Jul 16, 2010

Arcticblast said:
I think Salamence might start using Hydro Pump in Ubers to an extent, it uses the rain.

It doesn't. The standard Mence set in Ubers is DD/Outrage/EQ/Fire Blast with Life Orb - Theorymon posted one a few months ago. It will always get off one DD with Wobb support. After that, it OHKO's pretty much everything after Rocks; without it, the only things I can think of that aren't OHKO'd are Lugia and Deoxys-D.

Bogmire · Jul 16, 2010

kokoloko said:
If you had played the suspect ladder you would know stall is not going to be that dominant. People keep thinking Mence was this amazing stallbreaker - it wasn't.

I beg to differ. The 2 times I battled Krack on Shoddy I beat his stall team singlehandedly effortlessly both times with DD fire fang lum mence even though he is clearly the better player than me. it definitely WAS an amazing stallbreaker.

GaRgAnt · Jul 16, 2010

Nice, now Heatran will be the next suspect.

lmitchell0012 · Jul 16, 2010

drcossack said:
It doesn't. The standard Mence set in Ubers is DD/Outrage/EQ/Fire Blast with Life Orb - Theorymon posted one a few months ago. It will always get off one DD with Wobb support. After that, it OHKO's pretty much everything after Rocks; without it, the only things I can think of that aren't OHKO'd are Lugia and Deoxys-D.

When I read this I immediately though of garchomp. Salamence and garchomp have often been compared and one thing about salamence that sets it apart from garchomp is dragon dance. Garchomp has no moves for boosting its speed, so that's one little niche that salamence has in ubers. Just something to think about.

GaRgAnt · Jul 16, 2010

...And guys, Salamence's performance in Ubers doesn't and didn't matter in why it was banned. Anything can be used in Ubers save Arceus. Ludicolo, Jumpluff, anything. All I know is that Salamence was countered by Stealth Rock, the omnipresence of sandstorm in OU, and the fact that Scizor, besides checking Mence, made for checking everything else quite well contrary to what everybody says.

Salamence is Uber.

Curtains

Slater

kokoloko

what matters is our plan!

M Dragon

The north wind

Aura Guardian

Blue_Tornado

Boondocker

Aqueos

Lorenz

DDRMaster

Nachos

PallyHeroRush52

JSND

alamaster

hello

ENZ0

420

Arcticblast

Trans rights are human rights

Nozizaki

kd24

Dura

drcossack

I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

Bogmire

GaRgAnt

lmitchell0012

Wi-Fi Blacklisted

GaRgAnt

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