Swampert (Update)

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Swampert needs an update, and Colonel_M said I could~

status: done; I'll talk to a mod about this

-------------------------------------

QC approval x3 ------------------------------------------GP approval x2
~Setsuna.------------------------------------------------~jc104
~remlabmez---------------------------------------------~Draco Zephyr
~Seven Deadly Sins

~Quality Control Approved~-----------------------------~Grammar-Prose Approved~




http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/swampert

[Overview]

<p>While Swampert's movepool upgrades from the previous generation are not numerous, they are very significant, and make Swampert into the top-tier Pokemon he is today. Swampert is one of the most solid defensive Pokemon in the OU tier, as he is capable of effectively setting up Stealth Rock, attacking, and defending. His good defensive typing leaves him with only one weakness - Grass-type moves - that can be easily played around through proper team support. While powerful special attacks may hurt Swampert somewhat, he can take most neutral hits with aplomb, and his resistance to Rock- and Fire-type attacks, as well as immunity to Electric-type attacks, grants him plenty of opportunities to switch in. Overall, Swampert is a great choice for any OU team, and is a defensive threat to prepare for.</p>

[SET]
name: Standard (Lead)
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Roar / Protect / Surf
item: Leftovers
nature: Relaxed
evs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Thanks to his good typing, decent attacking stats, high Defense, and access to Stealth Rock, Swampert makes both a great lead and an exceptional mid-game defensive Pokemon. He is capable of taking on many popular threats, such as Tyranitar, with ease, and can serve as a great defensive pivot.</p>

<p>Swampert is an exceptional Stealth Rock user. With his high Defense and resistances to popular attacking types like Rock and Fire, he finds plenty of opportunities to set up Stealth Rock. Earthquake is used in the second moveslot as it is Swampert's best STAB move, hitting anyone who doesn't resist it for a decent chunk of damage. Ice Beam is used in the third moveslot to enable Swampert to OHKO Flygon, Gliscor, and Dragonite switch-ins after Stealth Rock damage. It also allows him to hit Grass-type switch-ins, such as Shaymin, for super effective damage, though Swampert must switch out on the next turn. There are several viable options that Swampert can use in the final moveslot. Roar is the primary option as it can be used to scout the opposing team, as well as rack up residual damage from Stealth Rock. Protect can be used as a scouting move, and can also aid Swampert in blocking Explosion from Metagross and Azelf leads; it also gives Swampert an extra turn to recover health with Leftovers. Surf can be used if you'd like a secondary STAB option for Swampert to use, though you lose out on some of Swampert's defensive utility if you choose not to use a support move in the fourth moveslot.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>As far as other options go, Swampert has a few choices. Stone Edge can be used in place of Ice Beam as it allows Swampert to dish out respectable damage to Gyarados switch-ins while still dealing healthy damage to Dragonite. Toxic can be used in the final moveslot to spread around status and support the team better, but in terms of team support, the options that are already listed above are usually the superior choices.</p>

<p>The Defense EVs on this set grant Swampert exceptional physical bulk, letting him take most resisted and neutral physical attacks with ease. 240 HP EVs give Swampert more all-around bulk, and 52 Special Defense EVs are used to allow Swampert to take neutral and resisted special attacks, such as Dragonite's Draco Meteor and Heatran's Fire Blast, more easily. An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA can be used to maximize Swampert's physical bulk, but leaves him more vulnerable to special attacks, which often makes it an inferior spread.</p>

<p>Seeing as Swampert can be successfully used on almost any type of team, he has many viable teammates. Pokemon such as Scizor and Heatran can be used to compensate for his unfortunate 4x weakness to Grass-type moves. Both of the aforementioned teammates can take on Celebi and Shaymin, two of the biggest threats to Swampert, though they must watch out for Hidden Power Fire and Earth Power, respectively. On more defensive teams, Blissey makes a wonderful teammate for Swampert, as she can sponge special attacks that could otherwise spell doom for the mud fish Pokemon. She can also pass Wish to Swampert, keeping his health high; seeing as Swampert has no instant recovery move to work with, Wish support can be a tremendous blessing. Mixed Dragonite and Infernape can take advantage of the Stealth Rock that Swampert sets up by forcing the opponent to switch through offensive pressure, which hurts the opposing team and gives your team offensive momentum.</p>

[SET]
name: CursePert
move 1: Curse
move 2: Earthquake / Waterfall
move 3: Avalanche / Sleep Talk
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Thanks to access to Curse and a good physical movepool, Swampert can be a dangerous boosting tank when used correctly. With only one weakness, solid defensive stats, and a handful of resistances, Swampert can set up on many popular OU Pokemon, making him a solid choice for the role of a bulky sweeper.</p>

<p>Curse allows Swampert to boost both his Attack and Defense in one turn, turning him into an immediate threat. While Curse does lower Swampert's Speed, this is usually inconsequential, as he isn't exactly fast to begin with. Earthquake is the primary option in the second moveslot as it is a consistent form of STAB that deals heavy damage to anyone who is not resistant or immune to it. However, Waterfall can be used if you'd like to hit Pokemon who are immune to Earthquake, such as Skarmory and Rotom-A. Avalanche is the best choice in the third moveslot, enabling Swampert to dish out tremendous damage to threats such as Dragonite and Gliscor after a Curse. Sleep Talk can be used instead, however, as it allows Swampert to retain his usefulness while asleep after using Rest. Speaking of Rest, it is used in the fourth moveslot as a means of recovering HP, increasing his longevity and allowing him to keep his sweep going.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Chesto Berry can be used as the item to allow Swampert to immediately wake up from the sleep caused by Rest, but Leftovers is a more dependable item choice. A mono-attacker Curse set can be used with a moveset of Curse / Waterfall / Rest / Sleep Talk, but this leaves Swampert walled by many Pokemon, and easily set up on by others. You can also run a set with Curse + three attacking moves. If you choose to do this, then you should use an Adamant nature with 208 Attack EVs, giving Swampert a good chance of OHKOing 252 HP / 220 Def Bold Calm Mind + Wish Jirachi after a Curse boost. However, such a set takes away from Swampert's longevity considerably.</p>

<p>The EV spread on this set is very straightforward. 252 HP EVs are used to maximize Swampert's all-around bulk. 216 Special Defense EVs and a Careful nature allow Swampert to take neutral and resisted special attacks very well. The remaining EVs are dumped into Defense, and allow Swampert to take a lot of powerful physical attacks after a few Curse boosts.</p>

<p>Good teammates for this set include Pokemon who can switch in on powerful special attacks, such as Celebi's Leaf Storm, which would otherwise KO Swampert. Blissey is a good teammate for this reason, capable of switching in on almost any special attack thanks to her astronomical HP and Special Defense stats. She can also pass Wish to Swampert, keeping his HP high before he sets up. Steel-type Pokemon, such as Heatran and Scizor, are also great teammates for this Swampert, as they pack resistances to the special attacks Swampert doesn't want to take, namely Shaymin's Seed Flare and Dragonite's Draco Meteor. A Rapid Spinner can get rid of the Spikes that will otherwise make it tough for Swampert to set up, so using one alongside him can be a good idea. Forretress makes a great choice for this role as he can also set up Toxic Spikes, allowing Swampert to stall out some potential counters while setting up. Life Orb Shaymin makes a good partner for this set as it can destroy bulky Water-types, who may otherwise cause this set problems, with its STAB Seed Flare.</p>

[SET]
name: Rest + Sleep Talk
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Roar / Stone Edge / Avalanche
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 240 HP / 52 Atk / 216 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Swampert is a wonderful physical tank and defensive Pokemon, his lack of a reliable recovery move significantly hampers his tanking abilities. This set aims to remedy said problem by utilizing a combination of Rest and Sleep Talk, allowing Swampert to restore his health without becoming set-up fodder or a sitting duck.</p>

<p>Earthquake is used in the first moveslot as it is Swampert's best STAB move, allowing him to hit most Steel-types as well as several common Pokemon for consistent damage. Roar is the main choice in the second moveslot for letting Swampert phaze the opposing team, racking up residual damage from entry hazards while scouting. It also prevents Swampert from becoming set-up fodder for dangerous sweepers, such as Calm Mind Suicune. Stone Edge can also be used in the second moveslot for hitting Gyarados and providing Swampert with the infamous QuakeEdge attacking combination, but Avalanche can be used to hit Dragonite, Gliscor, and Flygon for heavy damage. Rest is used in the third moveslot to allow Swampert to recover his HP, while Sleep Talk is used in the fourth moveslot so that Swampert is still capable of being useful while asleep.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Waterfall can be used over Earthquake as an alternate STAB move, but Earthquake has more power and gets better coverage alongside the other moves on the set, often making Waterfall an inferior choice overall.</p>

<p>The EVs on this set serve a specific purpose in allowing Swampert to take attacks. With 240 HP EVs, 216 Defense EVs, and an Impish nature, Swampert will never be 2HKOed by Choice Band Tyranitar's Crunch or OHKOed by Dragon Dance Dragonite's +1 Outrage, and can retaliate against the two with Earthquake and Avalanche, respectively. The remaining EVs are placed in Attack to give Swampert's moves a slight power boost, but you can redirect them to Special Defense if you want Swampert to be able to take on special attackers a bit more easily.</p>

<p>A Rapid Spinner makes a great teammate for Swampert, as they can rid the field of entry hazards, namely Spikes, that will otherwise take a huge toll on Swampert's survivability. Forretress makes a great choice, as he packs a 4x resistance to Grass-type moves and can set up Toxic Spikes, which facilitates Swampert's stalling. He can also set up Spikes, increasing the residual damage inflicted on the opponent. Any Pokemon who possesses a 4x resistance to Grass-type moves is a welcome teammate for this set; good choices include Scizor and Heatran, as they are capable of taking out the Grass-type Pokemon, such as Celebi and Shaymin, whom this set detests. Celebi and Shaymin themselves make great teammates for this set, as they are capable of taking on the physically defensive Pokemon whom this set cannot break past, such as Hippowdon and Machamp.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Waterfall / Aqua Tail
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Ice Punch
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 168 HP / 240 Atk / 100 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is a rather unexpected set that allows Swampert to hit Pokemon whom he usually cannot hurt for significant damage. This set's main selling point is its surprise value; however, you must have good prediction skills in order to use it successfully. A single incorrect prediction could be catastrophic when using this Swampert, so tread carefully.</p>

<p>Waterfall and Earthquake are used on this set to form a solid STAB duo that allows Swampert to hit many common OU Pokemon for large amounts of damage. However, if you want more power and the ability to 2HKO specially defensive Skarmory, then you can use Aqua Tail instead of Waterfall. Aqua Tail's only drawback is its lower accuracy, which can potentially mean the difference between a win and a loss; stick to Waterfall if you're looking for consistency. Stone Edge is used in the third moveslot so that Swampert has a way to heavily damage the omnipresent Gyarados, who will otherwise take a pittance from Swampert's attacks. Ice Punch is used in the final slot, granting Swampert valuable OHKOs on Dragonite and Flygon. It can also hit Celebi and Shaymin on the switch-in, though Swampert must immediately switch out the next turn.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Superpower can be used over Ice Punch in the final moveslot as it gives Swampert good neutral coverage in tandem with his other moves. However, the Attack and Defense drops that come after using it will often force Swampert to switch out the next turn, an unattractive prospect.</p>

<p>With 240 Attack EVs and an Adamant nature, Swampert hits like a ton of bricks, and even Pokemon who resist his attacks will have a tough time switching in on him. 168 HP EVs prevent Swampert from being 3HKOed by neutral-natured Heatran's STAB Fire Blast, and add to Swampert's overall bulk. 100 Speed EVs allow Swampert to outspeed slower Skarmory and Adamant Rhyperior, and smash them both with Waterfall.</p>

<p>Since this set will force a lot of switches, it is important to provide it with entry hazard support. Heatran makes a great teammate for this reason, as he is able to consistently set up Stealth Rock. He also packs a 4x resistance to the Grass-type moves that will otherwise OHKO Swampert in a flash. Spikes support can be provided by Forretress, who is also capable of using Rapid Spin to get rid of the opposing team's entry hazards, allowing Swampert to switch in much more easily. As far as offensive partners for this set go, Choice Scarf Flygon makes a great teammate, as he is capable of revenge killing many dangerous Pokemon who will attempt to set up on this Swampert, namely Dragon Dance Dragonite and Gyarados. It's also a great idea to have a few solid switch-ins to Grass-type moves on your team. The aforementioned Heatran and Forretress both pack 4x resistances to Grass, as does Scizor, whose powerful U-turn can be used to scout the opposing team and look for possible Swampert counters.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Something that really hinders Swampert's ability as a wall is his lack of a reliable recovery move. For this reason, Wish support can be a tremendous help when using any Swampert set, as it is capable of keeping Swampert's health high and allowing him to switch in more easily. Blissey makes a great teammate in this regard, as she can switch in on the special attacks that would otherwise harm Swampert and proceed to Wish. Jirachi is also a good teammate for Swampert, as it is a very capable Wish user. Jirachi and Swampert also cover each other's weaknesses well, which makes it easier for Jirachi to pass a Wish to the mud fish Pokemon. Entry hazard support can also help Swampert a great deal, as he often forces a lot of switches with his superior bulk; he even has access to Roar, allowing him to further take advantage of entry hazard support. Stealth Rock support can be provided by Heatran, as he and Swampert share great defensive synergy. For the same reason, Skarmory and Forretress make great teammates, as they can set up Spikes and synergize well with Swampert. Forretress is even capable of using Rapid Spin to rid the field of the opponent's entry hazards, making it easier for Swampert and his teammates to switch in.</p>

<p>One of Swampert's largest problems is his crippling 4x weakness to Grass-type moves. Common Grass-types, like Celebi and Shaymin, have no trouble switching in on Swampert and OHKOing him with their STAB attacks. For this reason, partners who can soak up Grass-type hits are welcome teammates to Swampert. Heatran and Scizor are wonderful choices, as they can easily switch in on Grass-type attacks due to their 4x Grass resistance. They are both capable of easily eliminating Celebi, Roserade, and Shaymin, the three most common Grass-types in OU (though they must watch out for Hidden Power Fire and Ground, respectively). Forretress and Skarmory are good options on a more defensive team, as they both pack a 4x resistance to Grass as well as handy support movepools. Swampert also sees use as a member of the infamous Fire + Water + Grass core. More specifically, a Celebi + Heatran + Swampert combination is the most effective, as it packs resistances to all seventeen attacking types in the game! If you use this core, however, you need teammates who can revenge kill sweepers like Dragon Dance Dragonite and Bounce Gyarados. Choice Scarf Jirachi and Flygon make excellent choices for this, as does a Choice Band Scizor with Quick Attack.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Swampert's movepool isn't particularly vast, so he doesn't have many other decent options to work with. Something interesting to note is that Swampert learns both Counter and Mirror Coat. While these could potentially be used to nab a surprise KO on unsuspecting attackers, they will be a waste of a moveslot if you fail to predict correctly, and lose their effectiveness after Swampert uses them once; as such, you're often better off sticking to his more dependable moves. Swampert can utilize a combination of Subsitute + Focus Punch as he creates 101 HP Subsitutes, making him a perfect Blissey counter; however, this strategy is better left to other Pokemon, as Substitute's HP-sapping effect is rather counterproductive. Swampert's decent base 85 Special Attack stat means that he can run a Choice Specs set with Surf, Earth Power, Ice Beam, and Hidden Power Electric, but this set is inferior to other special attackers, as the only thing it has going for it is surprise value. Finally, Swampert can be a good support Pokemon to use on a Rain Dance team, as many Rain Dance teams struggle with Tyranitar, to whom Swampert is a great counter. However, Swampert has more worthwhile options to use.</p>

[Counters]

<p>The best counters for Swampert are Grass-types, such as Celebi and Shaymin. They can easily switch in on almost all Swampert sets and proceed to OHKO the mud fish Pokemon with their STAB attacks. However, be warned: a smart Swampert user will almost always have a teammate who can deal with Grass-types. Other bulky Water-types, such as Suicune and Vaporeon, can't really damage Swampert to much, but he cannot damage them, either. However, the aforementioned bulky Waters can set up on Swampert, and will almost always beat him one-on-one (bar Choice Band variants). Rotom-A doesn't take significant damage from any of Swampert's attacks, and can cripple him with Will-O-Wisp; the same goes for Dusknoir. Overall, any Pokemon who can take a few hits and dish out consistent damage will be able to defeat Swampert one-on-one.</p>
 
KK cool!

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Roar / Protect / Surf
item: Leftovers
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
New EV's are pretty much arbitrary as hell. I don't like calling this Mixpert, because its not really an attacker, and its actually a pretty bad lead as its stopped cold by anything with Taunt. It makes a good "second lead" for pokemon like Frosslass, Skarm, and Forry when they are used as leads, as most things that can beat them Pert can lay Stealth Rock on.


[SET]
name: Sleeping Booster
move 1: Curse
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
This needs its own set. Is more effective than standard Curser IMO. I don't know where we get off putting this to AC saying its bad, but it seems like we are getting away from win-condition mono attackers like this that are pretty effective with very little team support. For example, if you get rid of Celebi (let your WHOLE team die just to kill it), you 5-0 stall with Toxic Spikes. Easily.. they just have no freaking chance. How is that not site worthy??? To be honest, this is probably more effective than standard Cursepert.

[SET]
name: CursePert
move 1: Curse
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Avalanche / Stone Edge
move 4: Waterfall / Rest
item: Leftovers / Chesto Berry
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 136 Atk / 120 SpD
This needs to be more offensive, since after one Curse your not very threatening. If your stacking multiple Curses, you should use the mono set. Due to the prevelance of annoying Will-O-Wisp Rotom (at least with Mono you don't care), Breloom, Celebi, and Shaymin.. this set is actually not very good in this metagame but heh..

[[SET]
name: Rest + Sleep Talk
move 1: Waterfall / Earthquake
move 2: Roar
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def /4 SpD
General consensus is that RestTalk without a phazing move and or Guts and or boosting move really just sucks. The current RestTalker will be set-up bait for a ton of shit. Standard EV spread should suffice, if really necessary, you can probably get away with running less defense and more Special Defence because of recovery. Maybe something like 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD, or 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD. If Stealth Rock is on the field (which it should be), you can probably get away with Earthquake as the single attack.


[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Aqua Tail / Waterfall
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Ice Punch / Superpower
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Speed creep is in effect here, so speed should be lowered to 178 with mention of a few extra points in AC. Defense EVs for what?

Also, people will bitch at me for saying Aqua Tail is better, but it really is debateable for power boost. You aren't sweeping so the 100% accuracy and non-significant flinch rate (lets face it, most skarm will be faster, and you aren't flinching faster foes) aren't as crucial. Aqua Tail also 2HKOs Specially Defensive Skarmory and Forretress for example. Waterfall does not. Either way, I think a slash is deserved. Superpower is good neutral coverage with your other moves, and just as powerful as Choice Band Waterfall. Ice Punch can hurt Breloom but doesn't even OHKO and does laughable damage to Celebi / Shaymin. Flying pokemon you are better of Stone Edging.


][SET]
name: Mixpert
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Earthquake / Superpower
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Stealth Rock / Roar
item: Leftovers
nature: Quiet
evs: 252 HP / 224 SpA / 32 Spe

Swampert is a good mixed attacker. The standard traditional Mixpert doesn't do much to levitating foes not weak to Ice like Azelf, Gengar, and Rotom. This one can remedy that, doing quite a bit to them with your water STAB. Superpower OHKOs Tyranitar and does a lot to Abomasnow, and can do 47% and 31% minimum to Bold Max / Max Blissey respectively, which you outspeed. I haven't configured the EVs to make it 2HKO yet but will get back to you. Ice Beam with this spread is finally powerful enough to OHKO Breloom switch ins. Surf 3HKOs RestTalk Rotom, which means it can't sit on its ass against you. Hydro Pump actually 2HKOs with Stealth Rock and Sandstorm almost 100% of the time (43.4% minimum damage). Stealth Rock is good just because its freaking Swampert.
 

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
RL, most of the changes you want me to make seem pretty cool, but they break Phil's QC testing results, which I have to stick to when writing this analysis. The EVs Phil wants me to use on the lead set are actually pretty cool, and you dont accomplish anything else with extra defense EVs. However, I do like the idea of changing the set name to standard, so I'll do that. As for the mono cursepert, I'm supposed to merge normal cursepert and mono cursepert into one set, which I tried to do as best I could. Besides, I dont think that mono cursepert is as good as youre making it out to be. Yeah, it does well once Celebi and Shaymin are gone, but theres always the threat of a powerful special attack, like Dragonites Draco Meteor, so its not like you auto-win if you KO the opposing teams Grass-type. As for the resttalking set, I would rather not run more physical EVs than neccessary, so the current EV spread will stand for the time being. I quite like the idea of Roar, however, so it will definitely get a lengtly mention in additional comments. On the Choice Band set, I see your points about aqua tail, and I will slash it alongside waterfall; however, it will not be the first slash. Superpower is an option I never really considered before on Swampert, and while I'm reluctant to slash it, I'll happily mention it in additional comments. On the choice band EVs, I'm still going to stick with the spread currently listed, as from what I can tell thats the spread that QC wants to see. Finally, the mixpert attacking set looks pretty cool, so I'll test that later on today or tomorrow to see what I think.

Thanks for your input B)

PS, can some QC members look at this, please?
 
I really think Roar should be the main option on the RestTalk set. Without Roar it's total set up fodder for anything with a Stat Boosting move. I think Mono CursePert is great and deserves it's own set, but to be honest, your slashes made it look good. So ya, good skeleton so far x)
 
Okay, on Rest/Talking Cursepert I would simply run 252HP/6Def/252SpD. The extra special defensive helps you switch into stuff like Spec'd Heatran and Rotom sets more easily. You honestly do not need the extra defense after a Curse. Would you rather have those 40Def EV's in defense, or special defense after 2-3 curses late game? Special defense is just alot more important on a Curser, and jump points aren't usually the most ideal thing to aim for if it reduces your optimal potential.
 
Swampert has 404 hp.

Mixnite LO Draco Meteor vs 252/216 Careful Swampert: 243-205

Mixnite LO Draco Meteor vs +1 252/40 Careful Swampert: 195-165

33/68 chance to survive, if my calculations are correct.

Swampert needs 200 attack evs with a neutral nature to 2HKO 252/252 Bold Blissey with Superpower after Stealth Rock and one turn of Leftovers.
 

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Towelie, I tested RestTalk pert with roar today and it did really well, so I'm gonna make it the main option in the second moveslot. As for those EVs, LizardMan, I'll test them today and then update the OP accordingly.
 
but theres always the threat of a powerful special attack, like Dragonites Draco Meteor,
Dragonite's Draco Meteor doesn't even 2HKO Careful Swampert, which means you can easily just rest and make it irrelevant.

I strongly stand by Mono-Cursepert being fantastic and I REALLY think it needs its own set. Because the Curse + 2 or 3 attack set uses completely different EVs and plays differently. Not to knock it, but without some attack investment I really don't see a Curse + 2/3 attack set dishing out much damage...
 
Ya the thing about Mono CursePert is that it's such a complete bitch to kill. Unless you have something Grass Types or a tricker, there's really nothing that can take Pert down after a few boosts. It doesn't NEED the type coverage because it's so hard to 3HKO that you can just whittle it down with Waterfall while Resting up when necessary.
 

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Yea guys, I know that mono cursepert is good, but Phil wants the sets combined, and I completely agree with him; it makes no sense to have two similar sets in one analysis, so I tried to combine them as best I could.

PS Setsuna, thanks for the approval bro B)
 
I think the problem is the main Curselax + 2 Attacks shouldn't be so defensive.. it doesn't even have recovery (Chesto Rest is meh). I think the EV spread is far from optimal. 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpDef hits like a pussy and you aren't trying to outlast your opponent like the mono-set is. Why not take advantage of Swamperts Base 110 Attack?
 

Setsuna

Prototype
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I didn´t have time to comment on in some aspects before, so I guess I´ll weigh in my thoughts now. With regards to some of the changes suggested by RaikouLover (some of them were already implemented by Snorlaxe), this is what I have to say:

  • Standard Swampert: the Special Defense EVs don´t hurt at all, and can be very useful for taking special hits overall. Dragonite, Kingdra, Heatran, Infernape, are some examples of Pokemon in which Swampert usually switches in.
  • CursePert: Philip´s QC results of this set were that it should contain both Curse and RestTalk merged into one set, and the way the content of the OP is currently organized is, in my opinion, probably one of the best ways to go around it. However, if there´s something I´d really like to see in AC is the following: Highlight the possibility of running Curse + 3 atttacks (as it currently is in the on-site analysis) with a slightly more offensive approach in the Evs -- calculations are needed in order to find out the proper amount of Atk Evs.
  • RestTalk: the OP is fine, and Roar is definitely worth being the main slash.
  • Choice Band: the spread RaikouLover suggested is the one that should be used. As Philip expressed on his QC topic, CB Swampert should run max Atk and those Def Evs are not accomplishing anything special. On the other hand, Superpower is fine if it´s mentioned in AC IMO.
  • Mixed Swampert: It deserves testing. I put it in my to-do list when I approved this update, but I still have to run a few calcs and acquire field experience with it. I also told Philip about it; he´s the one who is evaluating Swampert so I guess he´ll get back to you soon.

So yeah, that´s basically it.
 

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Okay Setsuna, I updated the OP with those changes :)

Can I get one more QC member to look at this, please?
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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note about Choice Band:

Bump the speed up to 100 EVs (181 stat)- it beats Adamant Rhyperior and Skarmory attempting to outspeed said Rhyperior. This only takes 12 EVs, so just drop the Attack down to 240. This was the speed that was hit on the original spread (the weird one), and while it may not come into play a whole lot, it's still notable enough that the 3 (4?) attack points won't be missed.

Other than that, looks good.

QC APPROVED (3/3)
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Mono Cursepert is fantastic with a Pursuiter for Celebi and some way to make Shaymin your bitch. It never, ever dies. Put it on! The set is FANTASTIC.
 

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Mono Cursepert is fantastic with a Pursuiter for Celebi and some way to make Shaymin your bitch. It never, ever dies. Put it on! The set is FANTASTIC.
Phil wanted the CursePert sets to be merged (as did I), and so I merged them to the best of my ability. It's techinically on right now, just "in disguise" I guess you could say

Thanks for the approval SDS! That makes three stamps; can a moderator move this, please?

EDIT: thanks setsuna :)
 

jc104

Humblest person ever
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Placeholder for GP check.

Edit - done. Changes in bold and removals in red. Good work.

[Overview]

<p>While Swampert's movepool upgrades from the previous generation are not numerous by any means, they are very significant, and make Swampert into the top-tier Pokemon he is today. Swampert is one of the most solid defensive Pokemon in the OU tier, as he is capable of effectively setting up Stealth Rock, attacking, and defending. His good defensive typing leaves him with only one weakness - Grass-type moves - that can be easily played around through proper team support. While powerful special attacks may hurt Swampert somewhat, he can take most neutral hits with aplomb, and his resistance to Rock- and Fire-type attacks, as well as immunity to Electric-type attacks, grants him plenty of opportunities to switch in. Overall, Swampert is a great choice for any OU team, and is a defensive threat to prepare for.</p>

[SET]
name: Standard (Lead)
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Roar / Protect / Surf
item: Leftovers
nature: Relaxed
evs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Thanks to his good typing, decent attacking stats, high Defense, and access to Stealth Rock, Swampert makes both a great lead and an exceptional midgame defensive Pokemon. He is capable of taking on many popular threats, such as Tyranitar, with ease, and can serve as a great defensive pivot.</p>

<p>Swampert is an exceptional Stealth Rock user, as with his high Defense and resistances to popular attacking types like Rock (remove space) and Fire, he finds plenty of opportunities to set it up. Earthquake is used in the second moveslot as it is Swampert's best STAB move, hitting anyone who doesn't resist it for a decent chunk of damage. Ice Beam is used in the third moveslot to enable Swampert to OHKO Flygon, Gliscor, and Dragonite switch-ins after Stealth Rock damage. It also allows him to hit Grass-type switch-ins, such as Shaymin, for a decent chunk of damage (repetition of “decent chunk of damage” – I would suggest changing), though Swampert must switch out on the next turn. There are several viable options that Swampert can use in the final moveslot. Roar is the primary option as it can be used to scout the opposing team, as well as rack up residual damage from Stealth Rock. Protect can be used as a scouting move, and can also aid Swampert in blocking Explosion from Metagross and Azelf leads. (could mention extra lefties recovery) Surf can be used if you'd like a secondary STAB option for Swampert to use, though you lose out on some of Swampert's defensive utility if you choose not to use a support move in the fourth moveslot.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>As far as other options go, Swampert has a few choices. Stone Edge can be used in place of Ice Beam as it allows Swampert to dish out huge respectable (with Intimidate it isn’t too impressive. It does 30-36% to bulky versions and 38-45% to offensive versions) damage to Gyarados switch-ins while still dealing healthy damage to Dragonite. Toxic can be used in the final moveslot to spread around status and support the team better, but in terms of team support, the options that are already listed above are usually the superior choices.</p>

<p>The Defense EVs on this set grant Swampert exceptional physical bulk, allowing him to take most resisted and neutral physical (remove space) attacks with ease. 240 HP EVs give Swampert more all-around bulk, and 52 Special Defense EVs are used to allow Swampert to take neutral and resisted special attacks, such as Dragonite's Draco Meteor and Heatran's Fire Blast, more easily.
An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA can be used to maximize Swampert's physical bulk, but leaves him more vulnerable to special attacks, which often making it an inferior spread.</p>

<p>Seeing as Swampert can be successfully used on almost any type of team, he has many viable teammates. Pokemon such as Scizor and Heatran can be used to compensate for his unfortunate 4x weakness to Grass-type moves. Both of the aforementioned teammates can take on Celebi and Shaymin, two of the biggest threats to Swampert, exceptionally well (I see this as unnecessary and perhaps wrong given how common HP fire is). On more defensive teams, Blissey makes a wonderful teammate for Swampert, as she can sponge special attacks that could otherwise potentially spell doom for the mudfish Pokemon. She can also pass Wish to Swampert, keeping his health high; seeing as Swampert has no instant recovery move to work with, Wish support can be a tremendous blessing. Mixed Dragonite and Infernape can use the Stealth Rock that Swampert sets up by forcing the opponent to switch through offensive pressure, which hurts the opposing team and gives your team offensive momentum.</p>

[SET]
name: CursePert
move 1: Curse
move 2: Earthquake / Waterfall
move 3: Avalanche / Sleep Talk
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Thanks to access to Curse and a good physical movepool, Swampert can be a dangerous boosting tank when used correctly. With only one weakness, solid defensive stats, and a plethora of resistances, Swampert can set up on many popular OU Pokemon, making him a solid choice for the role of a bulky sweeper.</p>

<p>Curse allows Swampert to boost both his Attack and Defense in one turn, turning him into an immediate threat. While Curse does lower Swampert's Speed, this is essentially usually (I would argue that something is either consequential or it isn’t) inconsequential, as he isn't exactly fast to begin with. Earthquake is the primary option in the second moveslot as it is a consistent form of STAB that deals heavy damage to anyone who doesn't resist or isn't is not resistant or immune to it. However, Waterfall can be used if you'd like to hit Pokemon who are immune to Earthquake, such as Skarmory and Rotom-A. Avalanche is the best choice in the third moveslot, enabling Swampert to dish out tremendous damage to threats such as Dragonite and Gliscor after a Curse. Sleep Talk can be used instead, however, as it allows Swampert to still be useful while asleep after using Rest. Speaking of Rest, it is used in the fourth moveslot as a means of allowing Swampert to recover his recovering HP, increasing his longevity and allowing him to keep his sweep going.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Chesto Berry can be used as the item to allow Swampert to immediately wake up from the sleep caused by Rest, but Leftovers is a more dependable item choice. A mono-attacker Curse set can be used with a moveset of Curse / Waterfall / Rest / Sleep Talk, but this leaves Swampert walled by many Pokemon, and easily set up on by others. You can also run a set with Curse + three attacking moves. If you choose to do this, then you should use an Adamant nature with 208 Attack EVs, allowing giving Swampertyouto have a good chance of OHKOing 252 HP / 220 Def Bold Calm Mind + Wish Jirachi after a Curse boost. However, such a set takes away from Swampert's longevity considerably.</p>

<p>The EV spread on this set is very straightforward. 252 HP EVs are used to maximize Swampert's all-around bulk. 216 Special Defense EVs and a Careful nature allow Swampert to take on neutral and resisted special attacks very well. The remaining EVs are dumped into Defense, and allow Swampert to take a lot of powerful physical attacks after a few Curse boosts.</p>

<p>Good teammates for this set include Pokemon who can switch in on the powerful special attacks, such as Celebi's Leaf Storm, that would otherwise KO Swampert. Blissey is a good teammate for this reason, capable of switching in on almost any special attack thanks to her astronomical HP and Special Defense stats. She can also pass Wish to Swampert, keeping his HP high before he sets up. Steel-type Pokemon, such as Heatran and Scizor, are also great teammates for this Swampert, as they pack resistances to the special attacks Swampert doesn't want to take, namely Shaymin's Seed Flare and Dragonite's Draco Meteor. A Rapid Spinner can be a good partner alongside this Swampert, as they can get rid of the Spikes that will otherwise make it tough for Swampert to set up. Forretress makes a great choice for this role as he can also set up Toxic Spikes, allowing Swampert to stall out some potential counters while setting up. Life Orb Shaymin makes a good partner for this set as it can destroy bulky Water-types, who may otherwise cause this set problems, with its STAB Seed Flare.</p>

[SET]
name: Rest + Sleep Talk
move 1: Earthquake (Waterfall deserves a slash here)
move 2: Roar / Stone Edge / Avalanche
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 240 HP / 52 Atk / 216 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Swampert is a wonderful physical tank and defensive Pokemon, his lack of a reliable recovery move hampers his abilities significantly. This set aims to remedy said problem by utilizing a combination of Rest and Sleep Talk (either that or “utilising Rest + Sleep talk…”), allowing Swampert to restore his health without becoming set-up fodder or a sitting duck.</p>

<p>Earthquake is used in the first moveslot as it is Swampert's best STAB move, allowing him to hit most Steel-types as well as several common Pokemon for consistent damage. Roar is the main choice in the second moveslot for allowing Swampert to phaze the opposing team, racking up residual damage from entry hazards while scouting. It also prevents Swampert from becoming set-up fodder for dangerous sweepers, such as Calm Mind Suicune. Stone Edge can also be used in the second moveslot for hitting Gyarados and providing Swampert with the infamous QuakeEdge attacking combination, but Avalanche can be used to hit Dragonite, Gliscor, and Flygon for heavy damage. Rest is used in the third moveslot to allow Swampert to recover his HP, while Sleep Talk is used in the fourth moveslot so that Swampert is still capable of being useful while he is sleeping after using Rest.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Waterfall can be used over Earthquake as an alternate STAB move, but it has inferior neutral coverage (it has better neutral coverage. This is fairly conclusive. 11 pokemon in OU resist water, including 1 immunity, and 15 are resistant to ground (counting Rotom-A as 1 pokemon), most of which are immunities. The fact that a number of these are weak to SR, and that EQ goes better with the coverage moves are the only reasons that Earthquake can be considered the main option) and less power than Earthquake does, often making it an inferior choice overall.</p>

<p>The EVs on this set serve a specific purpose in allowing Swampert to take attacks. With 240 HP EVs, 216 Defense EVs, and an Impish nature, Swampert will never be 2HKOed by Choice Band Tyranitar's Crunch or OHKOed by Dragon Dance Dragonite's +1 Outrage, and can retaliate against the two with Earthquake and Avalanche, respectively. The remaining EVs are placed in Attack to give Swampert's moves a slight power boost, but you can redirect them to Special Defense if you want Swampert to be able to take on special attackers a bit more easily.</p>

<p>A Rapid Spinner makes a great teammate for this Swampert set, as they can rid the field of entry hazards, namely Spikes, that will otherwise take a huge toll on Swampert's survivability. (with RestTalk, these effects are less significant. Therefore I would suggest “makes a great teammate for Swampert, as…”) Forretress makes a great choice, as he packs a 4x resistance to Grass-type moves and can set up Toxic Spikes, allowing Swampert to more easily stall out his counters via RestTalking. (when running Roar spikes are somewhat more important) Any Pokemon who possesses a 4x resistance to Grass-type moves is a welcome teammate for this set; other good choices include Scizor and Heatran, as they are capable of taking out the Grass-type Pokemon, such as Celebi and Shaymin, whom this set detests. Celebi and Shaymin themselves make great teammates for this set, as they are capable of taking on the physically defensive Pokemon whom this set cannot break past, such as Hippowdon and Machamp.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Waterfall / Aqua Tail
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Ice Punch
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 168 HP / 240 Atk / 100 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is a rather unexpected Swampert set that allows him to hit Pokemon whom he usually cannot hurt for significant damage. This set's main selling point is its surprise value; however, you must have good prediction skills in order to use this set successfully. A single incorrect prediction misprediction could be catastrophic when using this Swampert, so tread carefully.</p>

<p>Waterfall and Earthquake are used on this set to form a solid STAB duo that allows Swampert to hit many common OU Pokemon for large amounts of damage. However, if you want more power and the ability to 2HKO specially defensive Skarmory, then you can use Aqua Tail instead of Waterfall. Aqua Tail's only drawback is its lower accuracy, which can potentially mean the difference between a win and a loss; stick to Waterfall if you're looking for consistency. Stone Edge is used in the third moveslot so that Swampert has a way to heavily damage the ever-common Gyarados, who will otherwise take a pittance from Swampert's other attacks. Ice Punch is used in the final slot as it allows Swampert to hit Dragonite and Flygon for tremendous damage, OHKOing both 100% of the time. It can also hit Celebi and Shaymin on the switch-in, though Swampert must immediately switch out upon the next turn.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Superpower can be used over Ice Punch in the final moveslot as it grants Swampert good neutral coverage in tandem with his other moves. However, the Attack and Defense drops that come after using it will often force Swampert to switch out upon the next turn, an unattractive prospect.</p>

<p>With 240 Attack EVs and an Adamant nature, Swampert hits like a ton of bricks, and even Pokemon who resist his attacks will have a tough time switching in on him. 168 HP EVs prevent Swampert from being 3HKOed by neutral-natured Heatran's STAB Fire Blast, and give Swampert more overall bulk. 100 Speed EVs allow Swampert to outspeed slower Skarmory and Adamant Rhyperior, and smash them both with Waterfall.</p>

<p>Since this set will force a lot of switches, it is important to provide it with entry hazard support. Heatran makes a great teammate for this reason, as he is able to consistently set up Stealth Rock. He also packs a 4x resistance to the Grass-type moves that will otherwise OHKO Swampert in a flash. Spikes support can be provided by Forretress, who is also capable of using Rapid Spin to get rid of the opposing team's entry hazards, allowing Swampert to switch in much more easily. As far as offensive partners for this set go, Choice Scarf Flygon makes a great teammate, as he is capable of revenge killing many dangerous Pokemon who will attempt to set up on this Swampert, namely Dragon Dance Dragonite and Gyarados. It's also a great idea to have a few solid switch-ins to Grass-type moves on your team. The aforementioned Heatran and Forretress both pack 4x resistances to Grass, as does Scizor, whose powerful U-turn can be used to scout the opposing team and look for possible Swampert switch-ins.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Something that really hinders Swampert's ability as a wall is his lack of a reliable recovery move. For this reason, Wish support can be a tremendous help when using any Swampert this set, as it is capable of keeping Swampert's health high and allowing him to switch in more easily. Blissey makes a great teammate in this regard, as she can switch in on the special attacks that would otherwise harm Swampert and proceed to Wish. Jirachi is also a good teammate for Swampert, as it is a very capable Wish user. Jirachi and Swampert also cover each other's weaknesses well, which makes it easier for Jirachi to pass a Wish to the mudfish Pokemon. Entry hazard support can also help Swampert a great deal, as he often forces a lot of switches with his superior bulk; he even has access to Roar, allowing him to further take advantage of entry hazard support. Stealth Rock support can be provided by Heatran, as he and Swampert share great defensive synergy. For the same reason, Skarmory and Forretress make great teammates, as they can set up Spikes and synergize well with Swampert. Forretress is even capable of using Rapid Spin to rid the field of the opponent's entry hazards, making it easier for Swampert and his teammates to switch in.</p>

<p>One of Swampert's largest problems is his crippling 4x weakness to Grass-type moves. Common Grass-types, like Celebi and Shaymin, have no trouble switching in on Swampert and OHKOing him with their STAB attacks. For this reason, partners who can soak up Grass-type hits are welcome teammates to Swampert. Heatran and Scizor are wonderful choices, as they can easily switch in on Grass-type attacks due to their 4x Grass resistance. They are both capable of easily eliminating Celebi, Roserade, and Shaymin, the three most common Grass-types in OU (though they must watch out for Hidden Power Fire and Ground, respectively). Forretress and Skarmory are good options on a more defensive team, as they pack both a 4x resistance to Grass as well as handy support movepools. Swampert also sees use as a member of the infamous Fire + Water + Grass core. More specifically, a Celebi + Heatran + Swampert combination is the most effective, as it packs resistances to all seventeen attacking types in the game! If you use this core, however, you need teammates who can revenge kill sweepers like Dragon Dance Dragonite and Bounce Gyarados. Choice Scarf Jirachi and Flygon make excellent choices for this, as does a Choice Band Scizor with Quick Attack.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Swampert's movepool isn't particularly vast, so he doesn't have many other decent options to work with. Something interesting to note is that Swampert learns both Counter and Mirror Coat. While these could potentially be used to nab a surprise KO on unsuspecting attackers, they will be a waste of a moveslot if you fail to predict correctly, and lose their effectiveness after Swampert uses them once; as such, you're often better off sticking to his more dependable moves. Swampert can utilize a combination of Subsitute + Focus Punch as he creates 101 HP Subsitutes, making him a perfect Blissey counter; however, this strategy is better left to other Pokemon, as Substitute's HP sapping effect is rather counterproductive. Swampert's decent base 85 Special Attack stat means that he can run a Choice Specs set with Surf, Earth Power, Ice Beam, and Hidden Power Electric, but this set is inferior to other special attackers, as the only thing it has going for it is surprise value. Finally, Swampert can be a good support Pokemon to use on a Rain Dance team, as many Rain Dance teams struggle with Tyranitar, to whom Swampert is a great counter to. However, Swampert has more worthwhile options to use.</p>

[Counters]

<p>The best counters for Swampert are Grass-types, such as Celebi and Shaymin. They can easily switch in on almost all Swampert sets and proceed to OHKO the mudfish Pokemon with their STAB attacks. However, be warned: a smart Swampert user will almost always have a teammate who can deal with Grass-types. Other bulky Water-types, such as Suicune and Vaporeon, can't really damage Swampert to much, but he cannot damage them, either. However, the aforementioned bulky Waters can set up on Swampert, and will almost always beat him one-on-one (bar Choice Band variants). Rotom-A doesn't take significant damage from any of Swampert's attacks, and can cripple him with Will-O-Wisp; the same goes for Dusknoir. Overall, any Pokemon who can take a few hits and dish out consistent damage will be able to defeat Swampert one-on-one.</p>
GP Check 1

 
Bump the speed up to 100 EVs (181 stat)- it beats Adamant Rhyperior and Skarmory attempting to outspeed said Rhyperior. This only takes 12 EVs, so just drop the Attack down to 240. This was the speed that was hit on the original spread (the weird one), and while it may not come into play a whole lot, it's still notable enough that the 3 (4?) attack points won't be missed.
Adamant Rhyperior isn't an OU pokemon. The bolded part is speed creep at its finest. It should stay with enough to outspeed min Skarmory by 1 or 2 points with an AC note about if they run more speed.
 

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Thanks jc104, almost all your stuff is in; I disagreed about slashing Waterfall on the RestTalk set, however, but I changed the paragraph mentioning it as per your suggestion :)

RL, SDS said that he wants to see the Speed EVs at what they currently are, and other QC members have approved the Speed EVs as well; they stay where they are for the time being.
 
Hi, Snorlaxe! I'm about to go to bed, but I noticed the word 'plethora' when I scrolled down. Plethora means surplus / excess, so I don't think that's what you mean. <3
 

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