Gyarados (Mono-Attacker)

[SET]
name: Mono-Attacker
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Dragon Dance
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 96 SpD / 8 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>While RestTalk Roar Gyarados should only be used on stall teams with lots of entry hazards, this version plays nicely on any team looking for a solid mixed wall. Instead of Roaring out your opponents, this Gyarados threatens to set up against them and clean up their team. Forgoing Attack and investing in both defenses lets Gyarados set up against Pokemon who would otherwise be considered his counters, such as Celebi, Empoleon, Swampert (without Roar), and Vaporeon (without Hidden Power Electric). He also excels at countering Fire-types (especially Heatran and any Infernape without Stone Edge) while still performing very well against the likes of Scizor and Lucario.</p>

<p>With a Careful nature, 96 Special Defense EVs ensure that a defensive Celebi's Grass Knot never inflicts more than 32%, meaning it will never 3HKO; Empoleon's Grass Knot is about equally powerful (Empoleon will rarely get a Petaya boost against this Gyarados), so these two will find themselves watching idly as Gyarados boosts his Attack and Speed. This also guarantees that Heatran's Fire Blast has only a very small chance to 3HKO after a Flash Fire (or Choice Specs) boost. 8 Speed is a minimal investment, but it is enough to outrun the neutral-natured base 100 Speed group after a single Dragon Dance, which can mean the difference between winning the game and being flinched to death by Jirachi; it also outspeeds Timid Rotom-A. The remainder goes into Defense to help Gyarados take physical attacks better, and this is amplified by Intimidate. This Gyarados laughs in the face of Breloom, as he does not fear Spore or any of Breloom's other attacks. Lastly, with all of these investments, this Gyarados will even be able to beat out powerful mixed attackers, including the big three Dragon-types of OU: Kingdra, Flygon, and Dragonite.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>While it may be tempting to start using Dragon Dance right away, like you would with any offensive Gyarados set, it's important to keep in mind that this Gyarados is primarily a wall and should be kept in good condition. Unlike the more conventional offensive sets, this Gyarados will virtually never be able to smash through your opponent's team early on in a battle. Gyarados is more of a “win condition”—you can depend on him to finish up in the endgame, but only if you've gotten rid of any potential threats. This primarily refers to wielders of Electricity, but also includes fast, powerful Rock-type attackers like ScarfTar and Life Orb Aerodactyl. You will definitely want at least one solid switch-in for threats like Jolteon and Zapdos. A Jolteon of your own will love to switch into Thunderbolts, and will serve Gyarados very well by shooing away Skarmory and Vaporeon. Swampert is also immune to Electric and carries a bonus Rock resistance, making him a natural choice for a partner. Shaymin is an adorable alternative; she resists Electric, and with Gyarados around, needs not worry about Heatran or Blissey when firing off her powerful Seed Flare.</p>

<p>Uniquely, Toxic Spikes are very helpful to this Gyarados, since opponents like Celebi will be constantly forced to heal away damage instead of spamming Grass Knot for critical hits. A single layer is great, but with two layers, Gyarados will boast assured victory against the likes of Vaporeon, Suicune, and Celebi. Removing Stealth Rock will make it considerably easier to bring Gyarados in and out, so either a fast Taunt lead or a Rapid Spin user is a good idea. Tentacruel and Forretress can both lay down Toxic Spikes and use Rapid Spin, but their synergy with Gyarados is suspect as they pose little offensive threat (and Tentacruel shares his Electric weakness). An offensive Starmie with Rapid Spin is more suitable, despite the shared weakness, because it can lure in Rotom-A and take it down with a manly Hydro Pump. Overall, remember that this Gyarados is more of a supporter than a supportee; he's probably not a Pokemon to build your team around.</p>

<p>Theoretically, one could put an offensive twist on this set by investing heavily in Speed and possibly Attack in order to threaten opponents earlier, while maintaining some longevity and a virtual immunity to status. After a Dragon Dance, 88 Speed outruns Jolly Jirachi and Timid Zapdos, which should be the minimum for any offensive RestTalk Gyarados. Below that, you could aim to beat Jolly Lucario and Timid Roserade, but the feral flower is nearly always used in the lead slot and Lucario will simply ExtremeSpeed anyway. Gliscor, although somewhat annoying with Taunt, will never switch into any Gyarados. 184 Speed will outspeed Starmie, although whether you'll be able to KO it with Waterfall is another matter. The problem with any fast, powerful RestTalk Gyarados is that he won't be able to wall and set-up against many of the same opponents, such as Celebi, who will beat him without Special Defense investment. Feel free to experiment, but this spread is tried and true, like a delicious lemon meringue pie.</p>

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original rl words preserved below

This deserves its own set. I was reading over the Gyarados analysis and found this:

Choosing a moveset of Rest + Sleep Talk + Dragon Dance + Waterfall can be deadly, but is walled to death by Suicune, Vaporeon, and Celebi. All three can retaliate against Gyarados in some way.

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While this quote can be true, with proper situations, this set can actually remedy and defeat these said pokemon. Let me explain.


[SET]
name: Mono-Attacker
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Dragon Dance
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 SpD

Why use this set?

Mainly, why does this deserve its own set. Gyarados needs a different EV spread and explanation if you want to go this route. This set is an extremely deadly late-game pokemon that really can punish any team without any remaining electric attacks. RestTalk Roar plays much differently and is 100% stall orientated. Therefore it needs a physically defensive spread since its main purpose is to keep threats such as Lucario and Scizor at bay.

[SET COMMENTS]
-Defensive pokemon FIRST. Sweeper second.
-One of the best switch-ins to Heatran. Nothing Heatran can throw at Gyarados can break you. Specs Fire Blast can 3HKO with a decent damage roll, but you can attempt to stall those out by Resting and hoping for a miss. Life Orb has no chance.
-still checks Lucario / Scizor decently.
-Checks all special varients of Infernape
-can stall out Mixed Dragonite, Mixed Kingdra (rest after first Draco), and Mixed Flygon
-beats Crocune 1 v. 1 most of the time, as +6 Surf doesn't 2HKO.
-walls Agility Empoleon
-Toxic Spikes support is recommended (stalls out all HP Electric Vaporeon obviously, along with Celebi)
-Rapid Spin recommended

Important set comment about EV spread:
-0 SpA Celebi's Grass Knot maxes at ~32%, meaning it will never 3HKO barring a crit. Even in Sandstorm, the chance of it defeating you in three hits is very small. Toxic Spikes will reduce the time needed to Stall out Celebi, as it will have to Recover and fight off poison damage rather than attacking you and praying for crits.
-44 Spe outspeeds positive base 90s after a Dragon Dance

[Additional Comments]
-40 EVs can be shifted from Special Defense to Defense for more physical durability (Intimidate greatly auguments each point). You will still never be 3HKOed by Celebi, but in Sandstorm you can be killed.

[Team Options]
-Jolteon is a great partner for absorbing Electric attacks and threatening bulky waters.
-Swampert absorbs Electric and Rock attacks
-Tentacruel can lay Toxic Spikes and Spin, but shares Electric weakness

walls Agility Empoleon

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Grass Knot does 40% minimum after Petaya, so either you come in on the Agility and get forced to Rest rather early (unboosted Waterfalls do 21% max while you're taking 30+), or you come in after the set-up, fail to do the 25% you need to do to kill it, and get 2HKOed. In no situation is Agility Empoleon beaten or walled.

Chris is me said:

Grass Knot does 40% minimum after Petaya, so either you come in on the Agility and get forced to Rest rather early (unboosted Waterfalls do 21% max while you're taking 30+), or you come in after the set-up, fail to do the 25% you need to do to kill it, and get 2HKOed. In no situation is Agility Empoleon beaten or walled.

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I take it that Gyara comes in as Empoleon uses Agility. While Empoleon sets up a Sub and Grass Knots Gyara, dealing 27.2 - 32.1%, Gyara is free to set up DDs and heal with Rest when needed, while Empoleon won't be able to activate Petaya till Gyara has obtained multiple boosts. Empoleon needs a crit to win.

It only makes sense to approve this set because:

1) It not only completely walls Breloom, but can set up in its face! How many Pokemon can boast this?
2) It makes for an amazing "win condition" Pokemon against opposing stall teams.

I have seen this set in action and it is DEADLY, especially when paired with toxic spikes. Stall teams love a Pokemon that can check a variety of different threats, while at the same time being a potent offensive threat.

Darkmalice said:

I take it that Gyara comes in as Empoleon uses Agility. While Empoleon sets up a Sub and Grass Knots Gyara, dealing 27.2 - 32.1%, Gyara is free to set up DDs and heal with Rest when needed, while Empoleon won't be able to activate Petaya till Gyara has obtained multiple boosts. Empoleon needs a crit to win.

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32 PP means you have an 88% chance to get at least one, I think you win especially since once they get 6 if they waterfall you to petaya you get that extra punch that forces em to rest.

This really isn't that fantastic against any stall team that prepares for "last pokemon that dodges toxic", which should be every stall team. In particular, Perish Celebi destroys this.

All of this being set it's probably pretty good especially against the FWG core.

Honestly? I see no reason to use this over ResTalk Boosting Kingdra. Gyarados has that crippling 4x Electric weakness, meaning anything with an electric move (Suicune, Rotom, Starmie, the list goes on and on) can come in and O-2HKO this set with no fear from a +1 Waterfall. Intimidate also doesn't do you much good, since this set is meant to set up at least several DDs in order to sweep, so the opponent WILL be switching to their check (and I don't see what counters Bulky DD Gyarados that dosn't counter this set). Kingdra on the other hand has a single weakness to only Dragon (not nearly as common of an attacking type as it used to be), and sets up on a very wide variety of threats that often give Gyarados trouble, such as Suicune/Starmie/Vaporeon. The only reason(s?) I could see using Gyarados over Kingdra is that it isn't destroyed by CS Flygon (although Outrage can OHKO the switchin, and of course you could use Waterfall over Outrage if you're paranoid about getting locked into the move), and the immunity to Ground-type moves (made up for by no weakness to SR?). That's my opinion on it, anyway.

Honestly? I see no reason to use this over ResTalk Boosting Kingdra. Gyarados has that crippling 4x Electric weakness, meaning anything with an electric move (Suicune, Rotom, Starmie, the list goes on and on) can come in and O-2HKO this set with no fear from a +1 Waterfall. Intimidate also doesn't do you much good, since this set is meant to set up at least several DDs in order to sweep, so the opponent WILL be switching to their check (and I don't see what counters Bulky DD Gyarados that dosn't counter this set). Kingdra on the other hand has a single weakness to only Dragon (not nearly as common of an attacking type as it used to be), and sets up on a very wide variety of threats that often give Gyarados trouble, such as Suicune/Starmie/Vaporeon. The only reason(s?) I could see using Gyarados over Kingdra is that it isn't destroyed by CS Flygon (although Outrage can OHKO the switchin, and of course you could use Waterfall over Outrage if you're paranoid about getting locked into the move), and the immunity to Ground-type moves (made up for by no weakness to SR?). That's my opinion on it, anyway.

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This set isn't a goddamn sweeper.. Its a defensive pokemon that CAN sweep. I thought I thoroughly explained that!

Kingdra doesn't counter Lucario. Kingdra doesn't counter Scizor. Kingdra is a MUCH MUCH shakier counter to Infernape. Kingdra is a riskier counter to Heatran (Dragon Pulse HI!). Bottom line, they check different things. This is a defensive pokemon first that can use Dragon Dance to threaten in the lategame. You don't go spamming Dragon Dance with this thing and expect to sweep. If you want an offensive varient, go look on the site already.

32 PP means you have an 88% chance to get at least one, I think you win especially since once they get 6 if they waterfall you to petaya you get that extra punch that forces em to rest.

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Nah Chris, I've fought Empoleon enough times with that set to know that it utterly walls it. You literally can Dragon Dance up at will and beat it. Usually I just Dragon Dance twice, go to sleep, then Empoleon really has no way to tell what to do in your sleep, if you get a third dance you outspeed, if you waterfall you 2HKO if Empoleon has subbed at all.

This really isn't that fantastic against any stall team that prepares for "last pokemon that dodges toxic", which should be every stall team. In particular, Perish Celebi destroys this.

All of this being set it's probably pretty good especially against the FWG core.

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Aside from the fact that Perish Song Celebi is extremely rare (it is, go check the usage) mainly because Celebi almost has to run HP Fire and Thunder Wave.. the only other thing on a stall team that even stands a prayer is a healthy Rotom. However, it is extremely easy to nuke Rotom with Starmie when you threaten to spin. Dead Rotom = Good Game Stall.

RL, I never claimed that Gyarados was primarilly a sweeper, I said that it has a harder time sweeping (which it does) so no need to call me out like that. You have a point about Gyarados being a much better check against Lucario and Scizor and friends, although it's just traded for being threatened by bulky waters with Electric moves (+Defensive Rotom). Does Gyarados have certain advantages? Yes. Does this set deserve it's own set? I'm not sure. I remember DD being slashed with Roar on the ResTalk set once a while back, and I'm not sure why it was removed. I know that Roar and DD play very differently, but otherwise it's the same set. I think a slash with Roar on the ResTalk set might be better than an entirelly new set like this.

This set looks too much of an add water and stir pray to god he doesn't have a rotom.You say this is not an offensive pokemon but DD is main move of the set. Without it, roar is a better option as a defensive move. Your going to be facing things like DD ttar and pray to god you get DD. yeah you block a few threats like Sub P empoleon but i don't see it working in this high intensity metagame. Like shaymin comes in and fucks ur shit up with seed flair and leech seed. heatran comes in with HP electric. Suicune with HP electric and basically half the metagame with a super effective move.With team support and a spinner it does well but ill have to try it out myself before i can say its shit or not.

As far as I'm concerned this set really doesn't need to prove itself, as it was used very successfully on Gormenghast and Obi's teams in the past. The metagame now actually favors it more than before because that bastard known as Salamence couldn't come in and fuck your shit with Draco. And there are advantages to DD as opposed to just Roar. You can actually Dragon Dance up to 2HKO Bulky SD Scizor (if its the last pokemon you just lose with Roar, but you get the idea).

This set looks very good actually. It seems like guys don't get the point of this set. Its a defensive pokemon... It CAN sweep if given the opportunity but its job is to primarily wall shit. And ya, it makes a great poke to beat stall with. Curtains, your main point about this set is that it allows Rotom to come in and lol at it.... But what Gyara set (bar cb) doesn't? Scarf Rotom is easily worn down and RestTalk gets 2hkod by LOMie's Hydro Pump. You talk about Heatran with Hp Electric... That's lol. Hardly anyone uses hp electric. And ya, some suicunes have hp electric. whoo! suicune, shaymin, and rotom stop this set. Well everything has counters. Once they are removed (offensive cune has no recovery, shaymin has no reliable recovery, rotom is pursuit bait, etc etc etc) this thing has very good sweeping potential.

This set is actually fairly popular. I'm surprised it's not already on-site.

It used to be, dunno why it got removed.

I've never had much success with Mono-Gyara as a sweeper, but trying to fit it in as a tank as well as a sweeper, instead of building a team around it, looks like it would work better as a strategy.

Mhm.

Philip7086 said:

This set is actually fairly popular. I'm surprised it's not already on-site.

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^

QC check complete -- moved to OU.

-Tentacruel can lay Toxic Spikes and Spin, but shares Electric weakness

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Small suggestion. I would mention Nidoqueen here - resist to Rock and Electric attacks + Toxic Spikes makes her better teammate then Tentacruel here.

I think T-Wave should have a mention here. Some things like gyarados (especially with taunt) can completely set up on you. Also, t-wave makes it easier to complete the main goal of the set, countering stuff.

Eggbert said:

I think T-Wave should have a mention here. Some things like gyarados (especially with taunt) can completely set up on you. Also, t-wave makes it easier to complete the main goal of the set, countering stuff.

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Um okay, where do you place it? It can't be placed over Rest, Sleep Talk, Waterfall, or Dragon Dance, so I don't see where you are getting at...?

Thunder Wave could potentially be an option on the Rest + Sleep Talk set, but not on this.

Over dragon dance. The main goal of the set is to counter physical threats, and some can wall/taunt you and set up. Once they see you dragon dance, they will taunt, however t-wave hits on the first turn or on the switch (stopping scarf rotom).

You do realize that the *name* of the set is "Sleeping Dragon Dance", right? Suggesting that Dragon Dance be replaced isn't happening.

K, what is the consensus on the 44 Speed EVs? I originally have been using them because the speed is 209, 1 point above no speed Rotom, and above Timid Roserade / Jolly Luke after a DD. However, 44 EVs is alot and putting them into physical defense might be more useful (11 extra points in defense is really like 16 thanks to Intimidate). I kind of feel like I can flat out drop them now that I think about it, as Lucario will just Extremespeed and Timid Ros outside the lead position is pretty rare, though is a threat to Gyarados with Life Orb Leafstorm and or Grass Knot. The no speed Rotom I can see being useful as that was my reason for initially putting it, but ya never know what spread people are running these days... (ideally your always hitting Rotom after a DD or just smacking him on the switch).

So the new spread would be:

248 HP / 164 Def / 96 SpD, Careful

And the stats are:

393 HP / 286 Atk / 235 Def / 140 SpA / 286 SpD / 198(297,396) Spe

If there are no objects I will edit the OP for now.

Why not mention Specs Jolteon as a teammate? If he has Signal Beam, Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt boosted with Specs he can scare off Gyarados' biggest counters of Water Absorbers, Celebi, Rotom-A and Suicune. Other Bulky Water types will lose, unless they have HP Electric. Electivire also deserves a mention.

Or mention Pokemon that benefit with the removal of Scizor/Lucario? Stuff like Tyranitar and some others which will take too long to type.

lolololol

Just set up on a Celebi, hit +6, and 2HKOed it with Waterfall while asleep. This set is boss.

I'm liking the new spread, lets it take hits damn well. This thing is insane to kill.

RaikouLover said:

Nah Chris, I've fought Empoleon enough times with that set to know that it utterly walls it. You literally can Dragon Dance up at will and beat it. Usually I just Dragon Dance twice, go to sleep, then Empoleon really has no way to tell what to do in your sleep, if you get a third dance you outspeed, if you waterfall you 2HKO if Empoleon has subbed at all.

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You've obviously never played me. :) You can DD a lot on it but once you start doing damage it Subs down and gets good hits. It doesn't need to predict the move Sleep Talk chooses; at worst it just uses Agility again to get the speed advantage.