Trick-lead Gallade

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First of all, I’d like to report that the moves ice punch, Fire Punch and thunderpunch are not listed under Gallade’s “moves” button, but they are listed on shoddy battle. Second, I’d like to welcome you to my first try to introduce a set. I copy pasted the layout I’m supposed to have, I think. Here I go:

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gallade

[SET]
name: trick-lead
move 1: Trick
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Psycho Cut / Zen Headbutt / Night Slash
move 4: Ice Punch / Thunderpunch / Leaf Blade / Fire Punch
item: Choice Scarf nature: Adamant ability: Steadfast
evs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:
-Works well on offensive teams.

-Trick will give you the advantage when faced with a SR or spikes lead.

-Gallade is not outclassed by other trick users. STAB CC, an unpredictable movepool, good special defense and the fact that nothing expects trick from Gallade makes him a fine user of the move.

Additional comments:

-Zen Headbutt is the more powerful option then Psycho Cut, but The accuracy isn’t great. Night Slash is useful to hit ghosts besides Gengar for SE damage who will inevitably try to switch into CC.

-Ice punch is recommended in the last slot as it OHKOs lead dragonite and gliscor, thunderpunch helps to hit water types, especially Gyarados, Leaf Blade destroys Swampert, although Trick cripples it. Fire Punch destroys Forretress and Scizor. Scizor might try to switch in to BP you.

- As for the EV’s: 152 speed EV’s allow you to outspeed CS max speed Tyranitar, who might come in and try to KO you, only to be surprised by a CS CC for a swift KO. The others are used to maximize attack and to help Gallade take hits.

Teammates and Counters:
-Offensive teams will appreciate Gallade’s ability to mess up walls and do heavy damage to unsuspecting foes thanks to its great movepool. You can pick the moves you need to help out your team.

-I recommend other hard hitters like Metagross or Mamoswine who can also lay down SR as decent teammates.

To show you how useful Gallade really is as a lead:


Heatran: if it’s wearing a scarf it can attack first:
Timid Heatran fire blast: 172 - 204 / 56.8% - 67.3%
Modest heatran fire blast: 189 - 223 / 62.4% - 73.6% (modest is not standard)
Close combat is always an OHKO.

Tyranitar: if you ever happen to find it in the lead spot: CC is an OHKO.

Starmie: scarfmie will probably use trick, which is good for you. If not, Night Slash, Thunderpunch, Leaf Blade… with my standard set, you can’t hit it decently, but Starmie never OHKO’s you even with a modest choice specs Hydro Pump.

Infernape: CCwill do between 279 and 328 damage. So that’s a good chance to OHKOif it’s not wearing a focus sash. If it’s the standard fake out lead it will fake out the first turn. Next turn you use trick, and Infernape will be stuck on fake out. You will be left behind with +1 speed and the freedom to switch between attacks thanks to the ability Steadfast. Awesome ability…

Metagross: You can try to trick it while you expect SR, but you’ll have to watch out it isn’t wearing a CS itself or doesn’t attack. I’d say, best to switch to an appropriate counter unless you want to tempt faith.

Swampert: Trick cripples it. Leaf Blade kills it if you have it.

Machamp: Psycho cut : Lead Machamp : 294 - 348 / 77.2% - 91.3%
Zen Headbutt: 340 – 400 (381 hp lead machamp) (sorry, but the calculator I used for the above calculation didn’t have the move Zen Headbutt)
As you see Machamp will be severely wounded if you attack. Zen Headbutt even has a decent chance to OHKO. Dynamic Punch is resisted so it’s only a 3HKO. Payback or stone edge bring you into KO range of BP so watch out. If you have something that doesn’t mind BP and can finish Machamp off, then you’ll probably want to switch. You can also use trick, but I don’t see why.

Azelf: this could go in many different ways, too many to cover. But Azelf is often specially based so don’t run away.

Gliscor: Ice punch, otherwise trick.

Skarmory: Trick.

Dragonite: Ice punch.

Hippowdon: trick.

Aerodactyl: Best thing to do is to attack it twice. It gets rocks up but yeah, Gallade isn’t an anti-SR lead. It only 2HKOs with EQ IF it’s lucky, SE won’t OHKO either.

Forretress: trick, or fire punch if you have it.

Can’t think of any more lead right now.


As you can see, Gallade works best when facing a wall who tries to set up rocks or spikes. Besides this, it’s not a push-over and can go toe-to-toe with special attackers and come out on top. Strong physical attackers are usually better to avoid if you can’t KO them in 1 hit. If you didn’t use trick, Gallade can come back later in the match and act as a revenge-killer or cripple a wall. If you did, it can use it’s useful resistances and good special defense to easily come in later in the game and pose a serious threat, especially to slower teams. It has only 2 weaknesses: ghost and flying, so it’s hard to nail him on weaknesses.
That’s about it. Now I’m wondering if I should post some battle logs or not. Anyways, I hope you like it and if you're sceptical then try it out.

Blast
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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Too many slashes, uninteresting lead anyway. Trick means that if it does its job, it loses all semblance of midgame utility, and if it doesn't get to trick-cripple a lead, it's probably still not doing much. Also, there's a lot of questionable stuff here, including assuming that Infernape would Fake Out on a lead that is either immune to Flinch or benefits from it, or that Forretress would stay in on something with the potential to Fire Punch it or hit it stupid hard with Close Combat or trick it. Same with Skarm. You also can't touch or impede the progress of any of the top leads, and as far as attacking leads go, it simply doesn't have the power or coverage to do the job.

This gets a no from me.
 

remlabmez

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I'm pretty sure I said this like a week ago but I will say it again. Just because a pokemon learns trick doesnt mean it needs an analysis dedicated to a lead position. Plus it doesnt even have hypnosis which would make a pretty good anti-lead (I experienced this first hand -_-)
 

Setsuna

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My QC partners summed up my thoughts pretty well. I really don't see the need for this. The proposed set doesn't impede other leads from accomplishing their initial objective, and on the other hand it lacks the sufficient coverage/power to hurt the most common leads in OU.

Although I don't see this set being viable enough to warrant its own spot on-site, I'd like to give you, Blastburner, the opportunity to respond to what the QCers who have posted here said.
 
Too many slashes, uninteresting lead anyway.
I disagree here. Gallade has many options. This is a good thing. It makes Gallade unpredictable and enables you to score a surprise KO.

Trick means that if it does its job, it loses all semblance of midgame utility, and if it doesn't get to trick-cripple a lead, it's probably still not doing much.
Gallade is still dangerous midgame. One should not forget it's high base attack and STAB close combat. Not many walls can avoid a 2HKO, especially with some prior damage. Flyers like gliscor who resist your STAB CC can be dealt with because of ice punch.

Also, there's a lot of questionable stuff here, including assuming that Infernape would Fake Out on a lead that is either immune to Flinch or benefits from it, or that Forretress would stay in on something with the potential to Fire Punch it or hit it stupid hard with Close Combat or trick it. Same with Skarm.
About infernape: Use close combat first. It'll kill Infernape or weaken it severely. It won't expect to be outspeed either. If it's the fake out lead, still close combat first, but you'll be flinched and won't attack. After that, Infernape will either switch or stay in. If it switches, you probably crippled the switch. If not, Infernape will be stuck on fake out because of trick.

I mean, what else can I say? This is a good match-up.

About Forretress or skarmory, what else can I say there? You threaten it, no matter what the opponent does. Skarmory can take a fire punch easily, it's even weaker then CC. Will it switch out in fear of trick? I doubt it, but it can happen. Gallade lures in walls to scout it's moveset, or ghosts to avoid CC. Trick cripples both, also meaning the ghost will be easier to pick off with a pursuit user. Frailer stuff will fall to CC on the switch.

You also can't touch or impede the progress of any of the top leads, and as far as attacking leads go, it simply doesn't have the power or coverage to do the job.
Every lead has it's own specialty and there is no lead that can beat all other leads. Gallade does have the power and the coverage needed to be a good attacking lead. The added benefit is trick.


This gets a no from me.
Meh.

I've taken peace with the fact that the set is rejected.
 

panamaxis

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Lol, I dunno if anyone else bothered to click on gallade's analysis but we already have this set onsite with 252atk/speed....

Just out of interests sake:
Infernape: CCwill do between 279 and 328 damage. So that’s a good chance to OHKOif it’s not wearing a focus sash. If it’s the standard fake out lead it will fake out the first turn. Next turn you use trick, and Infernape will be stuck on fake out.
I'm fairly sure it doesn't work like that and you are only locked into the move you select after you get tricked.
 

Zystral

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uh for the record, Gallade does learn Hypnosis.

There was already an Anti-lead Gallade set thrown up a while ago that ran something like DBond / Close Combat / Shadow Sneak / Hypnosis with Lefties. It sucked and was removed

Scarf Gallade doesn't post as much of a threat as other Trick Scarfing Leads since it can't stay there and be a threat without its boosted speed, meaning that without a Scarf, it's still going to die to a few other leads/threats for leads.

The way I see it this looks like the Choice set but with extra, unnecessay slashes and a worse EV spread.
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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(sigh)

I disagree here. Gallade has many options. This is a good thing. It makes Gallade unpredictable and enables you to score a surprise KO.
Actually, it means that you're going to always be weak to a wide array of opponents that you can't touch, because you need all the perfect moves to even hope to do anything notable.

Gallade is still dangerous midgame. One should not forget it's high base attack and STAB close combat. Not many walls can avoid a 2HKO, especially with some prior damage. Flyers like gliscor who resist your STAB CC can be dealt with because of ice punch.
Gallade is barely interesting midgame. You're losing to so much notable stuff that it's not even funny. Resistors of Close Combat aren't few and far between. Gyarados doesn't give a shit about anything other than Thunderpunch. Zapdos just doesn't really care other than Ice Punch, and only maybe. Same with Gliscor, except now it's EQing you on your -1 Defense because of Close Combat. Starmie resists both Close Combat AND Zen Headbutt/Psycho Cut, as well as resisting Fire and Ice Punch, your preferred coverage moves. Also, 68/65 physical defense, CC's drop, mediocre speed, and a terrible defensive typing do not bode well for its ability to take hits.

About infernape: Use close combat first. It'll kill Infernape or weaken it severely. It won't expect to be outspeed either. If it's the fake out lead, still close combat first, but you'll be flinched and won't attack. After that, Infernape will either switch or stay in. If it switches, you probably crippled the switch. If not, Infernape will be stuck on fake out because of trick.
The fact that you're relying on inaccurate mechanics to win a matchup that you lose 100% anyway is horrifying. 1: It shouldn't ever Fake Out because an actual decent Gallade would be immune to Flinch, and either Sleep it or 2HKO with Close Combat + Shadow Sneak (note- this may not 2HKO, don't take my word for it, nor do i endorse a different terrible anti-lead set for Gallade). 2: Even if it did Fake Out, and you picked up a Steadfast boost, Tricking your Scarf onto it wouldn't lock it into Fake Out. TrickChoice doesn't work like Encore. If your opponent can select a move, that move gets performed without fail. The fact that you speak so "definitively" about a matchup that isn't rooted in mechanical facts does not bode well.

Also, why would you ever think something would "kill infernape" on turn 1 when it's a lead? Leadape always run Focus Sash.

About Forretress or skarmory, what else can I say there? You threaten it, no matter what the opponent does. Skarmory can take a fire punch easily, it's even weaker then CC. Will it switch out in fear of trick? I doubt it, but it can happen. Gallade lures in walls to scout it's moveset, or ghosts to avoid CC. Trick cripples both, also meaning the ghost will be easier to pick off with a pursuit user. Frailer stuff will fall to CC on the switch.
Yeah, Trick cripples the Scarf Rotom-A coming in to avoid Close Combat or take piss poor damage from an E-punch. Scarf totally cripples Gengar, right? (actually it doesn't because it just allows Gengar to revenge basically everything under the sun, thus why it's actually used intentionally sometimes.) Maybe Trick cripples the mediocre Ghosts that one would see near the bottom of the ladder, like Dusknoir and Spiritomb, but when we're looking at fairer skies, Tricking a Ghost isn't a huge, huge deal.

Every lead has it's own specialty and there is no lead that can beat all other leads. Gallade does have the power and the coverage needed to be a good attacking lead. The added benefit is trick.
You seem to miss the difference between "can beat all other leads" and "can beat any important lead", so I'll clarify. A "good" lead can beat the important ones, such as Azelf, Metagross, and Aerodactyl. This lead can't.

For reference: The only Trick lead that I'd ever actually attempt endorsing is the Scarf Jirachi lead, which I'm quite fond of, but only because Iron Head Hax can allow you to get out of sticky situations, with a little luck it can stop rocks from stuff like Azelf and Aerodactyl, it doubles as a midgame check to stuff like Luke, and most of the leads that would shrug off its attacks will get tricked a scarf. Oh, and it can actually set up SR of its own.
 

Rhys DeAnno

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I find Gallade Antileads sorta notable for being able to OHKO Machamp with Zen Headbutt, but that requires at the very least an Expert Belt (Jolly Belt 96.3-113.9, Adamant or LO ensures a kill). It can generally kill a lot of other stuff with CC/Coverage move + Shadow Sneak too, but it can't stop rocks from getting on the field and at is even slower than Roserade, not to mention being totally mauled by random stuff like lead Dragonite.
 
This sort of Gallade is setup bait for so many things, and if you didn't get off your scarf, Gyrados gets a DD or something else gets a SD. Yes, it can handle many leads. can it handle those leads with only four moves? No. I guess I can test this set out, and see how well it fares.

EDIT: game 1: Random Bronzong lead went boom T1.
game 2: killed aerodactyl lead with Ice Punch.
game 3: Killed by choice Metagross
game 4: Honchkrow lead. I use trick and it gives me a CB and he kills with Aeriel Ace
 
(I realize this is pretty much beating a dead horse) but wouldn't it just be worthwhile to use the Choice Band set on site in the lead position, but put a scarf on there and call it a day? Its pretty much the same thing except for Choice Band is more useful. I mean, Gallade still sucks but it just seems like it would be easier to mention this is AC of the CB set or just in OO in general.
 
FYI you cannot trick Fake out leads into being locked into fake out, as long as the fake out hits and they don't trick on the same turn.
I tried this out with the anti lead hariyama and it worked like this, furthermore if this were how it worked, you would find yourself locked into struggle or something.
 

firecape

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Actually, if you use a choiced Fake Out, I'm pretty sure it just fails after the first turn, rather then you using struggle.
 
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