Related Moves: DPPtHGSS and ADV

Alchemator · Sep 7th, 2010, 3:25:57 PM

As you might have noticed, "Related Moves" sections have been cropping up across the majority of move pages in both the D/P and R/S sections. While the majority of it is error-free, there are enough errors to justify this thread being put up.

This thread will serve to compile errors to rectify, and also serve as a discussion for certain move relations if necessary.

Please post in this format:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat GoodPoster1083728

Error: Gust does not link to Ember

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat GoodPoster0984523

Alch is the greatest dude in the history of planet Earth!

Terrible jokes aside, here is a list of errors that have been found so far, and I will attempt to fix.

...

Your help is much appreciated.

~Alch

Alan · Sep 7th, 2010, 6:44:09 PM

Pyscho Cut does not link to Slash nor does slash link to any of the other moves on the page as psycho cut.

also, should leaf blade be linked? even though it has 20 more base power it is essentially the same move similar to how quick attack and extremespeed are also alike.

Rising_Dusk · Sep 7th, 2010, 7:45:33 PM

Speaking of ExtremeSpeed, it has no related moves listed, when it should by all rights have all other priority moves listed like the others. Sucker Punch also doesn't list the 40 Base Power priority attacks, which I think it should.

**Nexus** · Sep 7th, 2010, 8:28:34 PM

Error: Dragon Claw, Drill Peck, Seed Bomb, X-Scissor should be listed as related attacks, since they are all base 80 physical attacks with no added effects.

Dig and Dive are not listed as related attacks even though they behave the same , have similar Base Power, and make the Pokemon more vulnerable to other attacks. Dive to Surf and Dig to Earthquake to Magnitude.

Discharge and Lava Plume should be listed as related attacks but neither page links to the other, as both have a 30% chance of inflicting a status condition. Furthermore, Dark Pulse is listed as a related attack for Lava Plume, but Lava Plume is not listed on the Dark Pulse page as a related attack. Finally, Extrasensory should be include in the related attacks if Dark Pulse is, as both have the same effect.

Bounce does not list Fly as a related attack, even though Bounce is listed as a related attack for Fly. Furthermore, I think you should mention the 30% chance of paralysis that Bounce has instead of only stating it is an inferior Fly or state that while Bounce is inferior it does have a secondary effect unlike Fly.

Shadow Ball and Energy Ball are not listed as related attacks when both can lower the opponent's Special Defense. Flash Cannon works in a similar fashion but lowers Special Attack, so I guess it can be grouped in but that's up to you. Additionally, I think this can be grouped with Lava Plume, Dark pulse etc... as they are all base 80 attacks with secondary effects, not sure what others think.

Blast Burn does not link to Hydro Cannon, Frenzy Plant, Roar of Time, Hyper Beam, or Giga Impact as related attacks but the others do list Blast burn and the previous list of moves as related attacks on their pages.

Earth power and Dragon pulse do not have related attacks listed, even though they are listed as related attacks for Psychic, Bug Buzz, Hyper Voice, and Sludge Bomb on their pages.

Alchemator · Sep 8th, 2010, 3:17:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Alan

also, should leaf blade be linked? even though it has 20 more base power it is essentially the same move similar to how quick attack and extremespeed are also alike.

We decided that it didn't quite fit in. Quick Attack and Extremespeed are both the same type, whereas Leaf Blade does not have a weaker equivalent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Rising_Dusk

Speaking of ExtremeSpeed, it has no related moves listed, when it should by all rights have all other priority moves listed like the others. Sucker Punch also doesn't list the 40 Base Power priority attacks, which I think it should.

Extremespeed should have Sucker Punch and Quick Attack, but Sucker Punch should only be linked to Extremespeed - it has no weaker equivalent, and the opponent is required to attack.

Something odd is that I did add pages for Earth Power and Dragon Pulse, but it seems that jumpluff cachéd the original version [I.E. no related moves] I'll fix that.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm adding everything else when I get time.

**Nexus** · Sep 8th, 2010, 8:48:41 PM

Just a few more:

Something must have gone wrong in the formatting of the Icy Wind page as it repeats the term "Related Move" twice in the D/P section.

Error: Draco Meteor does not have any related moves listed, even though Leaf Storm, Overheat, and Psycho Boost include it as a related move.

Error: Covet does not list Thief as a related move in the D/P section, even though Thief lists Covet.

Error: Volt Tackle, Double-Edge, and Brave Bird do not list Wood Hammer, Flare Blitz, or each other as related moves.

Error: Swords Dance does not list Tail Glow as an equivalent, even though it lists Nasty Plot. Additionally, Swords Dance has Belly Drum listed as an equivalent, but Belly Drum doesn't list Swords Dance as an equivalent. I don't like that it is referred to solely as an equivalent to Swords Dance as the boost is more drastic than the one Swords Dance provides, maybe mention that Swords Dance provides a much greater boost in a single turn.

Junk · Sep 8th, 2010, 9:02:08 PM

http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/barrage

Barrage should have DoubleSlap and Fury Attack. All of them are 15 base power moves with 85% accuracy and normal typing.

Banedon · Sep 9th, 2010, 12:47:25 AM

Not really an error with related moves, but ...

Error: the Seismic Toss page (http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/seismic_toss) - I'm 100% certain that there are plenty of Pokemon that learn Seismic Toss but aren't on the page (e.g. Chansey and Blissey). Right now all I'm seeing are Arceus, Hariyama, Machamp, Miltank, Pinsir, Primeape and Ursaring.

PS: you guys really work too fast :)

yiran · Sep 9th, 2010, 7:00:04 AM

Counter page doesn't have mirror coat and metal burst

**Fatecrashers** · Sep 9th, 2010, 10:48:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Banedon

Not really an error with related moves, but ...

Error: the Seismic Toss page (http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/seismic_toss) - I'm 100% certain that there are plenty of Pokemon that learn Seismic Toss but aren't on the page (e.g. Chansey and Blissey). Right now all I'm seeing are Arceus, Hariyama, Machamp, Miltank, Pinsir, Primeape and Ursaring.

PS: you guys really work too fast :)

That sort of thing goes in this thread.

Also I noticed that most of the errors originate in the pages of moves starting with A-I.

I'm just pulling your chain Alch. Alch is the greatest dude in the history of planet Earth!

Alchemator · Sep 11th, 2010, 7:26:48 AM

I know Fate :(

The weird thing is I distinctly remember posting the pages that some people say don't exist, so some caching must have gone haywire. I'm working on fixing these now.

TotalPotato · Sep 13th, 2010, 6:58:55 PM

Before I give some input here, I'd like to ask a question. How comprehensive are these Related Moves sections supposed to be? By that I mean that if a move differs from another, should every single difference between them be listed - accuracy, type, differences in effect, and power in the case of attacking moves?

As an example, on the Yawn page, it simply says that Sleep Powder is a Grass-type equivalent, whereas on the Sleep Powder page, it says that Yawn is a Normal-type equivalent, but puts the target to sleep at the end of the second turn (neglecting to mention accuracy differences).

Also, since no mention of max PP is given in any of the Related Moves sections, are we to assume that max PP is a non-issue?

Alchemator · Sep 14th, 2010, 4:52:11 PM

Max PP does not apply.

As the state of this section is currently in limbo, please refrain from posting from the time being. Thank you.

Banedon · Nov 4th, 2010, 1:30:38 AM

Error: http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/screech

Fake Tears and Metal Sound aren't equivalents (they reduce SpD, not Def). Also the Fake Tears page does not link to Screech.

Zystral · Jul 18th, 2011, 4:53:05 PM

I got about halfway through Nexus' post, when I realized after fixing Dragon Claw/Seed Bomb/X-Scissor etc. that if we're listing Dragon Claw and whatnot on Iron Head's page, we should list the whole Discharge/Lava Plume/Waterfall group on those pages too, and I'd already modified those, so I guess the entire 80BP move group will have to be done at a different date.

Just to make someone else's life easier though, here is a list of all the different 80BP/100Acc moves and any effects they have;
Crunch - Lowers defense
Dark Pulse - Flinch
Discharge - Paralysis
Dragon Claw - No effect
Drill Peck - no effect
Energy ball - ~~forces ragequits~~ lowers special defense
Extrasensory - flinch
Flash Cannon - reduces accuracy
Iron Head - Flinch
Lava PLume - burn
poison jab - poison
seed bomb - no effect
shadow ball - lowers special defense
strength - no effect
tri-attack - burn, freeze, or paralysis
waterfall - flinch
x-scissor - no effect

EDIT: Everything in this thread has now been fixed apart from the 80BP/100Acc moves and the 90BP/100Acc moves, as there are a high quantity of them. Once I get round to those, every recorded error will be fixed, although there will still be some more errors/missing entries left to fill in, and so I propose this thread be kept open for such errors.

black_cotton · Jul 26th, 2011, 10:24:08 AM

1-Error: Hypnosis does not link to spore, even though the opposite happens.

2-Also considering that hyper beam, roar of time and etc were linked to giga impact as equivalents...
The same should happen to thrash and petal dance they have the same BP and the same side effect. I'm a little iffy about outrage in Gen 04, since it got a boosted BP, but should definately be linked into the ADV page.

3-I'm not too sure about this one, but I believe that Defend order and cosmic power should have a link, they only differ on PP which apparently isn't a problem at all.

That's what I got for the time being, hope it helps.

Also I'll VM Zystral offering my help, so we can split up the work or whatever, that way we don't end up doing the same stuff which would be counter-productive. I'm waiting his/her response right know.

Zystral · Jul 26th, 2011, 7:04:13 PM

fixed black cotton's stuff. will get round to cataloging and implementing the 90/100 and 80/100 moves soon.

black_cotton · Jul 27th, 2011, 11:48:11 AM

So, since Zy is cataloging and implementing the 90/100 and 80/100 I'm looking through the 70BP/100Acc, 60BP/100Acc moves and came across a few errors again:

70/100 High Crit moves-

Cross poison-needs links to Night Slash, Psycho Cut and Shadow Claw.
Night Slash- needs links to Cross Poison only.
Shadow Claw- needs link to Slash only.

The rest of them are fine. And I didn't feel that the other 70BP/100Acc moves had enough in common to link in a single list like is for the 80BP/100Acc right know. But can be discussed I guess.

75/100-Elemental Punches-

Ice Punch- need links to Thunderpunch and Fire Punch.
Thunderpunch- needs links to Fire Punch and Ice Punch.

Fire punch page is good to go.

60/100-Moves-

1) Ancientpower needs link to Ominous and Silver wind.

2) Links Avalanche to Revenge, they got the same Base Power and the negative priority. Apparently Payback can also be linked, not sure if necessary though.

3)Links Bite backs to Needle Arm, since that happens only on Needle's page.

4) I believe that Dragonbreath and Force Palm are different types equivalents, same BS and same chance to paralyze (30%) so it deserves a link.

5) Drain Punch needs links back to Giga Drain and Mega Drain considering that the opposite happens.

6) Also, Pluck links to Bug Bite but not vice-versa.

Traps moves-

1) Bind needs links to all other multi-hit-trap moves, they are: Fire Spin, Magma Storm, Wrap, Sand Tomb, Whirlpool and Clamp.
The rest of them are linking fine to each other.

2) Block- needs links to Mean Look and Spider Web. The inverse is good though.

Finally, some random stuff:
Flail and Reversal should be linked, in my opinion they do the same thing at the same conditions; even the damage formula is the same.

To finish, please link Eruption back to Water Spout, right now only the inverse is true.

Sep 7th, 2010, 6:44:09 PM	#2
Alan Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,715 get the reptile to me	Pyscho Cut does not link to Slash nor does slash link to any of the other moves on the page as psycho cut. also, should leaf blade be linked? even though it has 20 more base power it is essentially the same move similar to how quick attack and extremespeed are also alike. __________________ music youtube Lorem ipsum id est oculis

Sep 9th, 2010, 12:47:25 AM	#8
Banedon Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 903	Not really an error with related moves, but ... Error: the Seismic Toss page (http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/seismic_toss) - I'm 100% certain that there are plenty of Pokemon that learn Seismic Toss but aren't on the page (e.g. Chansey and Blissey). Right now all I'm seeing are Arceus, Hariyama, Machamp, Miltank, Pinsir, Primeape and Ursaring. PS: you guys really work too fast :) __________________ Half the people on this forum are extremely rude in-game. If you believe in politeness both in-battle and outside it, put this in your signature. UU Warstory: What do I do next?

Sep 9th, 2010, 7:00:04 AM	#9
yiran Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 282 :3	Counter page doesn't have mirror coat and metal burst __________________ 雪花凋零残冰飞落随波逝

Sep 11th, 2010, 7:26:48 AM	#11
Alchemator my god if you don't have an iced tea for me when i come back i'm gonna flip Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,762 Zrack attack!	I know Fate :( The weird thing is I distinctly remember posting the pages that some people say don't exist, so some caching must have gone haywire. I'm working on fixing these now. __________________ Twitter \| Blog

Sep 14th, 2010, 4:52:11 PM	#13
Alchemator my god if you don't have an iced tea for me when i come back i'm gonna flip Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,762 Zrack attack!	Max PP does not apply. As the state of this section is currently in limbo, please refrain from posting from the time being. Thank you. __________________ Twitter \| Blog

Sep 7th, 2010, 7:45:33 PM	#3
Rising_Dusk Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 4,742	Speaking of ExtremeSpeed, it has no related moves listed, when it should by all rights have all other priority moves listed like the others. Sucker Punch also doesn't list the 40 Base Power priority attacks, which I think it should.

Sep 7th, 2010, 8:28:34 PM	#4
Nexus Hate is an everlasting wellspring from which it is eternally sustained. Moderator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,378 Mentor	Error: Dragon Claw, Drill Peck, Seed Bomb, X-Scissor should be listed as related attacks, since they are all base 80 physical attacks with no added effects. Dig and Dive are not listed as related attacks even though they behave the same , have similar Base Power, and make the Pokemon more vulnerable to other attacks. Dive to Surf and Dig to Earthquake to Magnitude. Discharge and Lava Plume should be listed as related attacks but neither page links to the other, as both have a 30% chance of inflicting a status condition. Furthermore, Dark Pulse is listed as a related attack for Lava Plume, but Lava Plume is not listed on the Dark Pulse page as a related attack. Finally, Extrasensory should be include in the related attacks if Dark Pulse is, as both have the same effect. Bounce does not list Fly as a related attack, even though Bounce is listed as a related attack for Fly. Furthermore, I think you should mention the 30% chance of paralysis that Bounce has instead of only stating it is an inferior Fly or state that while Bounce is inferior it does have a secondary effect unlike Fly. Shadow Ball and Energy Ball are not listed as related attacks when both can lower the opponent's Special Defense. Flash Cannon works in a similar fashion but lowers Special Attack, so I guess it can be grouped in but that's up to you. Additionally, I think this can be grouped with Lava Plume, Dark pulse etc... as they are all base 80 attacks with secondary effects, not sure what others think. Blast Burn does not link to Hydro Cannon, Frenzy Plant, Roar of Time, Hyper Beam, or Giga Impact as related attacks but the others do list Blast burn and the previous list of moves as related attacks on their pages. Earth power and Dragon pulse do not have related attacks listed, even though they are listed as related attacks for Psychic, Bug Buzz, Hyper Voice, and Sludge Bomb on their pages.

Sep 8th, 2010, 8:48:41 PM	#6
Nexus Hate is an everlasting wellspring from which it is eternally sustained. Moderator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,378 Mentor	Just a few more: Something must have gone wrong in the formatting of the Icy Wind page as it repeats the term "Related Move" twice in the D/P section. Error: Draco Meteor does not have any related moves listed, even though Leaf Storm, Overheat, and Psycho Boost include it as a related move. Error: Covet does not list Thief as a related move in the D/P section, even though Thief lists Covet. Error: Volt Tackle, Double-Edge, and Brave Bird do not list Wood Hammer, Flare Blitz, or each other as related moves. Error: Swords Dance does not list Tail Glow as an equivalent, even though it lists Nasty Plot. Additionally, Swords Dance has Belly Drum listed as an equivalent, but Belly Drum doesn't list Swords Dance as an equivalent. I don't like that it is referred to solely as an equivalent to Swords Dance as the boost is more drastic than the one Swords Dance provides, maybe mention that Swords Dance provides a much greater boost in a single turn.

Sep 8th, 2010, 9:02:08 PM	#7
Junk Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 76 Taiwan	http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/barrage Barrage should have DoubleSlap and Fury Attack. All of them are 15 base power moves with 85% accuracy and normal typing.

Sep 13th, 2010, 6:58:55 PM	#12
TotalPotato Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 325 Scotland	Before I give some input here, I'd like to ask a question. How comprehensive are these Related Moves sections supposed to be? By that I mean that if a move differs from another, should every single difference between them be listed - accuracy, type, differences in effect, and power in the case of attacking moves? As an example, on the Yawn page, it simply says that Sleep Powder is a Grass-type equivalent, whereas on the Sleep Powder page, it says that Yawn is a Normal-type equivalent, but puts the target to sleep at the end of the second turn (neglecting to mention accuracy differences). Also, since no mention of max PP is given in any of the Related Moves sections, are we to assume that max PP is a non-issue?

Nov 4th, 2010, 1:30:38 AM	#14
Banedon Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 903	Error: http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/screech Fake Tears and Metal Sound aren't equivalents (they reduce SpD, not Def). Also the Fake Tears page does not link to Screech. __________________ Half the people on this forum are extremely rude in-game. If you believe in politeness both in-battle and outside it, put this in your signature. UU Warstory: What do I do next?

Jul 18th, 2011, 4:53:05 PM	#15
Zystral Time for a true display of skill. Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,392 You belong in a museum!	I got about halfway through Nexus' post, when I realized after fixing Dragon Claw/Seed Bomb/X-Scissor etc. that if we're listing Dragon Claw and whatnot on Iron Head's page, we should list the whole Discharge/Lava Plume/Waterfall group on those pages too, and I'd already modified those, so I guess the entire 80BP move group will have to be done at a different date. Just to make someone else's life easier though, here is a list of all the different 80BP/100Acc moves and any effects they have; Crunch - Lowers defense Dark Pulse - Flinch Discharge - Paralysis Dragon Claw - No effect Drill Peck - no effect Energy ball - ~~forces ragequits~~ lowers special defense Extrasensory - flinch Flash Cannon - reduces accuracy Iron Head - Flinch Lava PLume - burn poison jab - poison seed bomb - no effect shadow ball - lowers special defense strength - no effect tri-attack - burn, freeze, or paralysis waterfall - flinch x-scissor - no effect EDIT: Everything in this thread has now been fixed apart from the 80BP/100Acc moves and the 90BP/100Acc moves, as there are a high quantity of them. Once I get round to those, every recorded error will be fixed, although there will still be some more errors/missing entries left to fill in, and so I propose this thread be kept open for such errors. __________________ GP Team - just ask. \| last.fm \| redditor \| steam \| #C&C, #mtg, #TCG oh look a userbar Last edited by Zystral; Jul 20th, 2011 at 3:03:02 PM.

Jul 26th, 2011, 10:24:08 AM	#16
black_cotton Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 475 It's Show Time.	1-Error: Hypnosis does not link to spore, even though the opposite happens. 2-Also considering that hyper beam, roar of time and etc were linked to giga impact as equivalents... The same should happen to thrash and petal dance they have the same BP and the same side effect. I'm a little iffy about outrage in Gen 04, since it got a boosted BP, but should definately be linked into the ADV page. 3-I'm not too sure about this one, but I believe that Defend order and cosmic power should have a link, they only differ on PP which apparently isn't a problem at all. That's what I got for the time being, hope it helps. Also I'll VM Zystral offering my help, so we can split up the work or whatever, that way we don't end up doing the same stuff which would be counter-productive. I'm waiting his/her response right know.

Jul 26th, 2011, 7:04:13 PM	#17
Zystral Time for a true display of skill. Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,392 You belong in a museum!	fixed black cotton's stuff. will get round to cataloging and implementing the 90/100 and 80/100 moves soon. __________________ GP Team - just ask. \| last.fm \| redditor \| steam \| #C&C, #mtg, #TCG oh look a userbar

Jul 27th, 2011, 11:48:11 AM	#18
black_cotton Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 475 It's Show Time.	So, since Zy is cataloging and implementing the 90/100 and 80/100 I'm looking through the 70BP/100Acc, 60BP/100Acc moves and came across a few errors again: 70/100 High Crit moves- Cross poison-needs links to Night Slash, Psycho Cut and Shadow Claw. Night Slash- needs links to Cross Poison only. Shadow Claw- needs link to Slash only. The rest of them are fine. And I didn't feel that the other 70BP/100Acc moves had enough in common to link in a single list like is for the 80BP/100Acc right know. But can be discussed I guess. 75/100-Elemental Punches- Ice Punch- need links to Thunderpunch and Fire Punch. Thunderpunch- needs links to Fire Punch and Ice Punch. Fire punch page is good to go. 60/100-Moves- 1) Ancientpower needs link to Ominous and Silver wind. 2) Links Avalanche to Revenge, they got the same Base Power and the negative priority. Apparently Payback can also be linked, not sure if necessary though. 3)Links Bite backs to Needle Arm, since that happens only on Needle's page. 4) I believe that Dragonbreath and Force Palm are different types equivalents, same BS and same chance to paralyze (30%) so it deserves a link. 5) Drain Punch needs links back to Giga Drain and Mega Drain considering that the opposite happens. 6) Also, Pluck links to Bug Bite but not vice-versa. Traps moves- 1) Bind needs links to all other multi-hit-trap moves, they are: Fire Spin, Magma Storm, Wrap, Sand Tomb, Whirlpool and Clamp. The rest of them are linking fine to each other. 2) Block- needs links to Mean Look and Spider Web. The inverse is good though. Finally, some random stuff: Flail and Reversal should be linked, in my opinion they do the same thing at the same conditions; even the damage formula is the same. To finish, please link Eruption back to Water Spout, right now only the inverse is true.