Rotom-A (Analysis)

Yeah, this is the culmination of something I started ~6 months ago. The big thing about this is to make sure that I don't miss any valid sets, and that we have the optimal EV spreads for each of the sets.

I'm not going to bother with justifying any of the sets here because they're proven effective and were run through QC. I'm also going to note the sets that have similar sets across analyses, yet multiple EV spreads. Part of the purpose of this thread will be to make sure that the "best" spread is used for that set.

The rule regarding "alternate forme moves" are simple. Basically, forme moves may *only* be listed in the fourth slot, and must be slashed with one another.

[Overview]
<p>Perhaps Platinum's biggest contribution to the OU metagame outside of granting Scizor access to Bullet Punch, Rotom-A quickly rose to prominence as OU's premier spinblocker and one of the most versatile Pokemon in the metagame. Boasting a unique typing that gives it solid dual STAB, as well as an excellent stat spread that gives it the ability to fill nearly any role that it wants, Rotom-A is easy to fit into any team. It also boasts five unique "formes," each with an extra move that can either expand its coverage or spook opponents into thinking you're carrying a specific move that can threaten them. Between its durable defensive set, its powerful choice sets, and a multitude of other offensive sets, Rotom-A has definitely earned its place among the top OU threats.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Trick
move 4: Hydro Pump / Overheat / Hidden Power Ice
item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>A simple, yet effective set, and easily Rotom-A's best. 86 base Speed goes a long way after a Choice Scarf boost, making Rotom-A a powerful revenge killer against top threats like Gyarados, Starmie, and many others, depending on the choice of final move. Alternatively, Choice Specs can be used to turn Rotom-A into a hard-hitting attacker with a powerful dual STAB resisted only by a select few Pokemon, few of which see use in OU. On top of that, Trick can be used to cripple many common switch-ins to Rotom-A, such as Blissey and most Ground-types looking to absorb Thunderbolts.</p>

<p>The last slot is used to provide important coverage for Rotom-A. As Rotom-W, it gains Hydro Pump, which not only gives outstanding neutral coverage and power, but also deals massive damage to Tyranitar, especially on the Choice Specs set. Rotom-H's Overheat, on the other hand, does incredible damage to Metagross, Scizor, and other Steel-types that Rotom-A checks. However, its typing and Special Attack-lowering attributed make Rotom-H extremely susceptible to Tyranitar. Finally, Hidden Power Ice can be used on any form to deal with Dragonite and Flygon, two Pokemon that take the other moves on this set fairly well.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The standard EVs for this set are pretty standard- maximum Special Attack and Speed, with the leftovers in Special Defense. Timid can be used to guarantee outspeeding Jolly Gyarados or Dragonite, while Modest gives more power, which is especially useful for the Choice Specs version. An alternative spread of 200 HP / 56 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature can be used with Will-O-Wisp in the fourth slot to give Rotom-A some additional defensive capabilities and make Rotom-A more of a utility check. It can also act as a Tyranitar lure and cripple it with a burn as it switches in.</p>

<p>The most important thing that Choiced Rotom-A needs is a way to deal with Tyranitar. Machamp is extremely effective, as it not only deals with Tyranitar, but also threatens Blissey, which commonly switches into Rotom-A. Swampert also does extremely well against Tyranitar, and Choice Band Swampert can also threaten Blissey, which would not normally expect a threat from Swampert. However, carrying multiple Choice users on the same team can cause issues, so keep that in mind when constructing your team. Other bulky Pokemon with Pursuit can cause problems, such as Metagross and Scizor. Above all else, take care against teams that seem likely to be carrying a Pursuit user, and try to avoid situations in which Rotom-A is locked in against an opponent that can KO it with Pursuit that it cannot KO in return.</p>

[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Thunderbolt / Discharge / Shadow Ball
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Hydro Pump / Hidden Power Ice
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is a more defensive take on Rotom-A's abilities. With the combination of Rest and Sleep Talk, Rotom-A can wall a number of physical attackers extremely effectively. Scizor, Metagross, and Bronzong can find it nearly impossible to break through Rotom-A's defenses, and are easily worn down by either burn or Rotom-A's attacks. Rest and Sleep Talk form a potent healing combination, making Rotom-A resistant to status and keeping it alive throughout the match. The third slot is used for Rotom-A's STAB move. Thunderbolt is Rotom-A's strongest attack, but Discharge gives a potent 30% chance to inflict Paralysis. Finally, Shadow Ball provides Ghost STAB should you prefer it over Electric STAB.</p>

<p>The final slot is reserved for general utility moves. Will-O-Wisp can cripple Tyranitar and other physical attackers as they switch in, and it also helps wear down opponents while Rotom-A is asleep. Hydro Pump can be used with Rotom-W to provide powerful coverage, hitting Ground-types looking to abuse their immunity to Electric. Finally, Hidden Power Ice can allow Rotom to check Dragon-types more effectively, since Dragonite and Flygon are both primarily physical attackers. Discharge is best paired with one of the two offensive moves on the set, as its paralysis chance can interfere with Will-O-Wisp's burn.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are straightforward- since Rotom-A's typing is optimal for walling physical attackers, it's best off with a straight physically defensive set. With full investment in Defense and HP, Rotom-A can shrug off attacks from powerhouses like Scizor and Metagross, which find it nearly impossible to set up any form of offense.</p>

<p>As with any Rotom-A set, this set can have severe issues with Tyranitar if it gets unlucky with Sleep Talk or is not carrying Will-O-Wisp. Defensively, Pokemon like Swampert and Hippowdon are extremely competent against Tyranitar, since they resist Stone Edge and have enough defense to shrug off Crunches, especially from Choice Scarf Tyranitar. If Rotom-A isn't carrying Hydro Pump, it also has a tough time getting around Heatran, which can use Flash Fire to power up from Will-O-Wisp and has enough Special Defense to largely ignore uninvested Thunderbolt. Swampert works here as well, as it can switch into Heatran's powerful Fire attacks and threaten it out with either of its STABs. Suicune also works well, as it has the Special Defense necessary to take strong special attacks aimed at Rotom-A's uninvested Special Defense stat. Meanwhile, Rotom-A can take Thunderbolts for Suicune, and also takes a measly 20 Base Power from Grass Knot.</p>

[SET]
name: SubSplit
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Shadow Ball / Hydro Pump
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Pain Split
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 16 HP / 240 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set forgoes additional coverage in exchange for longevity and increased effectiveness against stall teams. Using Rotom-A's 50 Base HP to its advantage, this set uses Pain Split to heal off the HP lost through use of Life Orb and Substitute. This increases its effectiveness against Pokemon like Blissey, which is already normally unable to break Rotom-A's Substitutes due to its Ghost typing. Furthermore, Pain Split's 32 PP allows Rotom-A to easily outstall nearly any other recovery move, since all other recovery moves have a mere 16 PP or less.</p>

<p>Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball are the main attacking options on this set, and provide Rotom-A with solid coverage in the form of its two STABs. However, Rotom-W's Hydro Pump can be used as an alternative. An unSTAB Hydro Pump has as much power as a STAB Shadow Ball, and hits most Ground-types that would absorb Thunderbolts more effectively, especially Hippowdon. However, its 80% accuracy can sometimes be off-putting, and it only has 1/3 of the PP of Shadow Ball, which can cause issues given the nature of the set.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>For a more defensive take on the set, an EV spread of 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe with Will-O-Wisp or Toxic over Shadow Ball is usable. This enhances the set's ability to stall out opponents through passive damage, and makes it especially good against Blissey and Tyranitar, two common problems for Rotom-A.</p>

<p>This set benefits from different teammates depending on the move chosen for the second slot. With Shadow Ball, bulky Ground-types like Hippowdon can cause problems, especially since it can phaze Rotom-A out or just attack it with Crunch. As a result, having a solid Hippowdon counter is probably a good idea. Skarmory can use it to lay down Spikes, which further punishes Hippowdon every time it comes in. When using Hydro Pump, bulky Grass-types such as Celebi and Shaymin can cause problems. Both Celebi and Shaymin are capable of healing off the damage caused by Pain Split with Recover and Rest, respectively. Celebi can also set up on Hydro Pump with Nasty Plot or Calm Mind and threaten a sweep. To deal with this, a strong Grass resist, such as Heatran, can be extremely useful for Hydro Pump variants. Choice Scarf Heatran is especially effective, as it can outpace offensive Celebi and Shaymin before they can retaliate with Earth Power.</p>

[SET]
name: SubCharge
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Charge Beam
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Fighting
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 64 HP / 232 SpA / 212 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Rotom-A lacks access to traditional boosting moves such as Nasty Plot or Calm Mind, it can still make excellent use of its STAB Charge Beam, which gives it a semi-reliable way to boost its more than capable Special Attack. Using Substitute, Rotom-A is able to scout switches as well as set up on Blissey, one of its most notable counters. With 64 EVs in HP, Blissey is unable to break Rotom-A's Substitutes with either Ice Beam or Flamethrower, and if Blissey doesn't run a special attack, it's completely unable to touch Rotom-A. Once Rotom-A has a boost or two, it can start pounding opponents with powerful boosted STABs. Alternately, Shadow Ball and Hidden Power Fighting provide unresisted neutral coverage, and Hidden Power Fighting hits Tyranitar hard. However, Thunderbolt provides a powerful attack against Scizor, which can threaten versions of this set with Hidden Power Fighting.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>64 HP EVs allow Rotom-A's Substitutes to survive any attack that Blissey would throw at it, thus allowing it to set up on standard Blissey. 212 Speed EVs with a Timid nature allows Rotom-A to outspeed neutral natured Lucario as well as Jolly Mamoswine. The remaining EVs are dropped into Special Attack in order to boost its offensive power. Leftovers allow Rotom-A to keep its HP up in sandstorm as well as heal off the damage caused by Substitute when sandstorm isn't in play.</p>

<p>In order to function fully, this set needs plenty of opportunities to set up a Substitute, since being behind one is the key to this set's success. U-turn users can easily scout the opponent, allowing Rotom-A to come in at opportune moments and set up. Pokemon that pull in Blissey can also be effective, as Rotom-A is free to set up a Substitute against it without any negative repercussions due to the HP EVs.</p>

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Thunderbolt / Discharge
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Overheat / Hydro Pump / Leaf Storm
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is the classic Rotom-A set, straight out of early Platinum. Rotom-A's fantastic Electric/Ghost typing gives it a huge pile of resistances, which can abuse to the fullest with a defensive set. Furthermore, this set allows Rotom-A to make the most of its 4 moveslots instead of limiting it with RestTalk, Pain Split, or other moves. As a result, this set has the most general purpose coverage, and is a solid set for patching up holes in a team. Thunderbolt is the strongest move on the set, and does solid damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Discharge, on the other hand, can be useful for spreading paralysis, though its secondary effect can sometimes get in the way of Will-O-Wisp and can prove a liability if something like Choice Band Tyranitar comes in and is paralyzed by it. Shadow Ball gives solid neutral coverage and secondary STAB, and Will-O-Wisp lets Rotom-A whittle down opponents and cripple physical attackers.</p>

<p>The final moveslot is used for one of Rotom-A's forme moves. Overheat provides solid tertiary coverage, and also does plenty of damage to Steel-types like Jirachi, Metagross, and Scizor, which Rotom-A is extremely effective against. It also wards off Grass-types like Shaymin and Celebi, which would otherwise be fine switching into Thunderbolt or Will-O-Wisp and threatening out Rotom-A. Hydro Pump is the most reliable attack against Tyranitar, which severely threatens Rotom-A, and also provides excellent neutral and super effective coverage alongside Rotom-A's STABs. Finally, Leaf Storm can ward off Swampert, especially mono-attacking Curse variants which can shrug off any of Rotom-A's other attacks.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Pain Split can be used in the last slot over the signature attack, since this set benefits greatly from any form of recovery. However, it's not especially reliable, and can actually be turned against Rotom-A if the opponent switches in something with low HP. 48 Speed EVs are used to hit 220 Speed, which outspeeds Modest Empoleon after an Agility and allows Rotom-A to either burn it with Will-O-Wisp or hit it with Thunderbolt. HP is then maxed, since Rotom-A's HP is fairly underwhelming, and the rest goes into Defense to buffer hits from Scizor, Metagross, and the like.</p>

<P>Since this Rotom-A set focuses more on bulk than offense, this set needs defensive teammates to ward off some of the offensive threats that can switch in. Depending on the signature move selected, specific teammates are more valuable than others. Without Leaf Storm, this set is extremely weak to Curse Swampert with Rest, so it's important to combine it with a strong Grass-type like Celebi or Shaymin to deal with Swampert. Blissey is also capable of completely shutting this set down, and if it has Toxic or a special attack it can either cripple or eliminate Rotom-A as well with minimal effort. As such, carrying something that can deal with Blissey, like Scizor or Machamp, can be a good idea.</p>

[SET]
name: Dual Screen
move 1: Thunderbolt / Discharge
move 2: Shadow Ball / Overheat / Hydro Pump
move 3: Light Screen
move 4: Reflect
item: Light Clay
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Rotom-A also has access to both Light Screen and Reflect, and as such, it's more than capable of abusing its excellent typing to switch in and support teams with dual screens. This allows it to lend support to offensive teams, as it's much easier for a setup sweeper to get its boosting moves off when it's taking half damage. The remaining moves are used to put some teeth on Rotom-A while it's supporting. Thunderbolt is Rotom-A's strongest STAB, but Discharge has a 30% chance of paralysis, which can cripple opposing Pokemon as they switch in. Shadow Ball is optimal in the second slot due to STAB and good coverage, but Overheat can be effective against the Steel-types that Rotom-A can easily switch into. Finally, Hydro Pump gives excellent neutral coverage alongside Thunderbolt, and is also the most effective attack against Tyranitar.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are given a defensive slant to give Rotom-A the best chance to set up multiple times throughout the match. 48 Speed EVs allows Rotom-A to outspeed Modest Empoleon before an Agility or Substitute, which can mean the difference between winning and losing the match (especially if you get off a Discharge and paralyze it). HP is then maximized for optimal bulk, and the remainder is dropped into Defense to help weather powerful resisted Steel- and Bug-type attacks from the likes of Jirachi, Scizor, and Metagross. If needed, Rotom-A can also use more offensive EVs and a Life Orb if more power and potential sweeping capability is preferred.</p>

<p>Since this is a set meant to support the team with dual screens, Rotom-A's optimal teammates are Pokemon capable of taking advantage of the screens that are set up. Powerful setup sweepers like Agility Metagross, Swords Dance Scizor (especially with Roost), and Dragon Dance Tyranitar can use thescreens to set up a boost, weather a hit from a potential counter, and either boost enough to sweep or simply eliminate their counter outright. There are many other setup sweepers in OU that can be used with this set, but the one chosen will largely depend on the remaining team composition and personal preference.</p>

[SET]
name: Washing in the Rain (Rotom-W)
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Thunder
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Ice
item: Damp Rock / Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is the only one that specifically requires a forme, and for obvious reasons. Rotom-W makes an excellent support for rain teams for a number of reasons. First, Rain Dance gives it a ton of benefit. Thunder is ~27% stronger than Thunderbolt, and has a 30% paralysis rate, making it much harder to switch into as a standard STAB. Second, Rain Dance gives Rotom-W pseudo-STAB on its Hydro Pump, which can make all the difference when Rotom-W finds itself up against Swampert and other Pokemon who resist Electric and are neutral to Water. Finally, Rotom-W makes an excellent switch-in to common foes for rain teams. Shadow Ball does plenty of damage to Celebi, and Rotom-W's low weight allows it to basically ignore Grass Knot. Meanwhile, STAB Thunder allows it to ward off opposing Water-types with ease.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>While this set is aimed more toward supporting rain teams, its EVs have a more offensive feel. Maximizing Speed and Special Attack allows Rotom-W to hit extremely hard, especially with Rain boosting its Hydro Pump's power and giving Thunder 100% accuracy. Defensive EVs can be used to give Rotom-A a better shot at setting up Rain Dance multiple times, but heavily affects its ability to deal damage. Damp Rock is optimal when using Rotom-W for rain support, but there are other options available. Life Orb makes Rotom-W very self-sufficient offensively, as its powerful STAB Thunder and rain-boosted Hydro Pump hit much harder with Life Orb. Finally, Leftovers can be used to give the set a bit more permanence, and is best used on defensive EV spreads.</p>

<p>As a weather supporter and Ghost-type, Rotom-W is absolutely terrified of Tyranitar, which can come in, eliminate the rain, and annihilate Rotom-W with a powerful Crunch or Pursuit. Hydro Pump helps things somewhat, and if Tyranitar comes in on a Rain Dance, it can soon find itself in trouble, since without its everlasting sandstorm it's actually quite vulnerable to super effective special attacks, especially rain-boosted Hydro Pump. Still, this set should have some coverage against Tyranitar. Scizor does well, as it resists Dark and benefits significantly from rain's weakening of Fire attacks. Other than that, there are plenty of sweepers that love the rain. Kingdra is especially lethal, as the rain both powers up its STAB Hydro Pump/Waterfall and also activates Swift Swim, making it one of the fastest sweepers around. Other Pokemon also do well in the rain, such as Kabutops or Ludicolo, and as such make good teammates for this set.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>There's pretty much nothing Rotom-A has that hasn't already been mentioned in the above sets. It can run a gimmicky parafusion set with Confuse Ray, Thunder Wave, and even Air Slash from Rotom-S, but that still remains weak against Ground-types, and depends a lot on luck to finish opponents off. Rotom-F works extremely well on hail teams, as it gains 100% accurate Blizzard and provides a crucial immunity to Fighting, which tends to be a shared weakness among teammates on hail teams.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>If there's anything that absolutely terrifies Rotom-A, it's Tyranitar. This beast can come into nearly any variant of Rotom-A and put an end to its shenanigans with Pursuit, and is especially good against the Scarf version. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can even absorb Trick and guarantee that Rotom-A will be KOed without dealing any damage. Hippowdon is also fairly effective, especially versions with plenty of Special Defense, as it can shrug off Shadow Balls, absorb Thunderbolts, and generally not be afraid of anything except Hydro Pump, Leaf Storm, and Will-O-Wisp (and not even the last one with cleric support).</p>

<p>Swampert is also excellent against Rotom-A, especially specially defensive versions with Curse and Rest. If Swampert packs some Special Defense investment and Rest, it can switch into essentially anything except Trick and start setting up for free on any form except Rotom-C (which may not even be carrying Leaf Storm). Curse Snorlax with Rest is even better, as it doesn't even pay any mind to any of Rotom-A's non-Trick moves.</p>

<p>Aside from some of the more dedicated counters, it's not very hard to beat Rotom-A once its set has been revealed. Blissey destroys most sets other than SubCharge and SubSplit (and still performs admirably against the latter), though it needs a special attack to actually do damage to Rotom-A. Most Ground-types perform especially well against Rotom-A, as its Electric attacks are its strongest and therefore its most often preferred attacks. As such, Flygon can do well against Rotom-A, as it can absorb Thunderbolts and threaten back with Outrage or scout with U-turn. Heatran is also extremely good, as without Hydro Pump it's hard for Rotom-A to damage it, and Heatran can even get a Flash Fire boost from Will-O-Wisp, a move that causes problems for most other Rotom-A checks.</p>

Some things to put down before I forget to post later:

Definitely a mention of 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe on Choice set, I know there's some amount of SpA needed to KO something but I don't remember what it is atm (it's like 36 or something).

Resttalk should probably have 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD with a Calm nature since a) that's what X-Act's defense EV applet tells us (special attacks hit harder than physical) and b) Rotom-A has WoW to cover for its defenses. Personally I've used 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD with Bold and that's always been fine.

Subcharge HP EVs were when Blissey had SpA EVs invested. However, since that detracts from her walling capabilities and this on the ladder:
| Blissey | SpAttack EV | None | 86.8 |
| Blissey | SpAttack EV | Low (50-100) | 5.1 |
| Blissey | SpAttack EV | Other (3) | < 3.0 |
Rotom-A only need 28 HP EVs to have its sub survive a Flamethrower from 0 SpA Blissey. Also, I don't see much harm in bumping up its Speed EVs right now. Right now it hits 287 Spe, making it Speed tie with Jolly 252 Gyarados (the analysis says it's only supposed to beat Jolly Mamoswine but that's at 284 Spe so there's some Speed creep there). However, we might as well run more because a) Offensive Suicune's getting more popular and Rotom can outspeed but if we do that then we might as well go for max Spe otherwise it's Speed creep.

tl;dr that last part IMO it should be 28 HP / 228 SpA / 252 Spe. Lets us Speed tie Rotom-A after they Tricked away their Scarf/are using Specs/are using the Subsplit set if this Rotom isn't using HP Fighting.

Editing to whistle below because I don't feel like making another post: Roar is Swampert's 4th used move (>50% use it), and it would be better for Swampert to Roar out Rotom-A instead of trying to Ice Beam its Subs once it sees it can't break a sub in 1 Ice Beam.

not sure what you're really getting with that 88 speed on defensive rotom. you're already bold and max hp and lots of defense; scizor's not touching you even if it's faster (that's the speed benchmark you hit). i'd rather have added spdef for mispredicted surfs and whatnot, or even just have it all stuck in defense. should be some alternate spread mentioned that makes you faster than adamant lucario. toss in reflect in the comments somewhere too maybe, helpful if you have tspikes support.

bulky scarf rotom-a definitely needs a mention, probably with 248 hp / 8 def / 252 speed and will-o-wisp instead of the signature move. 248 hp is to make hp not divisible by 16.

specs rotom and scarf rotom play pretty differently, and i'd maybe even go so far as to say that specs rotom is basically ONLY rotom-w because of the awesome coverage hydro pump provides with its stab attacks. and scarf rotom-h is (i think) the most popular scarf rotom set because overheat hits steels and grasses, although i've used scarf rotom-w a lot and i like it too. the only non-h or -w rotom that's scarf is probably used by someone running will o wisp in the last slot and just using a random forme to be cool. i feel like the best way to do the choice rotom stuff is probably just to have separate scarf/specs sets with h and w as the primary forms, respectively, because of their signature moves.

sub/split rotom isn't here but i remember some dude post it... idk if it got rejected though. it's definitely good -- both defensive versions and offensive subsplit @ life orb.

dual screen light clay pain split rotom is good and doesn't have a set

dunno anything about restalk i kinda just use whatever evs i feel like cause stall sucks

subcharge has 128 hp evs since that guarantees swampert's 0 satk ev ice beam deals 67 damage out of a 68 hp substitute, but i don't know how useful that is cause they all will just roar. 28 evs gives you 248 hp and 62 hp subs; jirachi's iron head will only do 61 hp damage. 212 speed is one faster than jolly gyarados in any case, but i think i'd run 252 speed for suicune and other rotom-a...

i like timid on washing in the rain because it means you can set up rain before heatran hits you with fire blast. dunno of any koes that modest gets you. damp rock for team support.

edit: also pain split on the defensive set, i see it most commonly over the signature move since you dont really need to be firing off overheat when you can just burn scizor

This looks very nice. However, I think Reflect deserves at least a mention in the RestTalk set, as it works very well in conjunction with Toxic Spikes. It also gives you a better switch into Machamp leads, as you don't have to worry about Lum Berry absorbing the Will-O-Wisp. It also prevents Heatran from getting that Flash Fire boost.

Sub / Pain Split / Thunderbolt / WoW was a pretty awesome set a while back (mainly for Rotom-W since you're spamming WoW a lot and the last thing you want is Heatran coming in).

On the RestTalk set I'd go with 252 hp / 252 def / bold because rotom walls a lot more physical things than special things; for example Shaymin counters it nearly completely and things like starmie and infernape can 2hko it anyway.

what about the defensive substitute set that is currently listed on rotom-c's page? its a very effective moveset that abuses spikes/tspikes like a champ.

Rotom-A @ Leftovers
252 hp/68 def/188 spe
timid
sub
wow
tbolt
pain split

(posted for convenience)

also i found that 252 hp/120 def/136 spdef bold is a my favorite ev spread for the resttalker set.

also, since rotom-f (i think thats the fan, i never use it, dont want to check) is the only one who can pull off parafusion should it get mention?

Pretty much, the only viable (or good, for those metagame-central players) Specs Rotom-A around these parts is Rotom-W, and the other Rotom forms should be secondary (Rotom-W for Air Slash is actually very nice). If Scarf and Specs Rotom-A play so differently, they should have analyses like Whistle suggests. Also, for the Scarf Set, -H, -W, or –C should be primary because of their moves (W and C aren’t immediately fucked or set up on by Swampert and Tyranitar).

Also, mention that if you’re running Hidden Power or some other move that’s not Rotom Forme-exclusive, you should run another Choiced Forme to bait certain Pokemon (Rotom-H’s Overheat [Whoops!] Hidden Power Fighting on Tyranitar). Statistical prediction.

Also, not sure I want to run Will-O-Wisp on ChoiceTom. It’s a good surprise, but it requires, eh….ungodly prediction, imo.

Finally, for the Washing in the Rain set, make Timid a primary option, yeah. With Rain Thunder, you can still gain a KO on Mixnite, and you outspeed Heatran and sponge Fire Blasts. Not sure what Modest does except get you a guaranteed kill on Draognite and Offensive birds after SR. In my opinion, Hidden Power Ice serves almost no purpose on the set, since STAB Shadow Ball does approximately the same thing, and you still hit Breloom and Roserade hard. Water and Ghost and Electric makes up for the lost coverage by the weak Hidden Power Ice.

I'm also not sure what the 88 Spe EVs are doing on the first set. I'd much rather just fill out as much bulk as possible. In fact, I'm no even sure how effective that set is, as I would never use a bulky Rotom-A set without either Rest or Pain Split for healing. It's not THAT bulky, and it doesn't really need the coverage for anything. In fact, I have always felt like Overheat was an overall bad move for Rotom-A, but I'm obviously aware of the few merits of it.

Sets I would like to see added:

Rotom-Hax
-Thunderwave
-Confuse Ray
-Air Slash
-Thunderbolt

Dual Screen
Timid, 252 HP / 252 Spe
Light Clay
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Pain Split
-Thunderbolt

I'm also guessing you're just waiting for the Sub Pain Split set to be finished, and you'll tack it onto this update?

Yeah, that's the plan. As soon as SubSplit gets approved by QC, you can lock it and I'll add it to this update.

I really, really don't want that silly parafusion set on the site. It's unreliable and uninteresting, and Air Slash has extremely mediocre power as far as coverage moves with bad offensive typings go.

Anyway, 88 Spe reaches 230 Speed, which outspeeds... Max Spe Adamant Scizor / Tyranitar. Seems reasonable, but maybe more bulk would be preferable?

Anyway, 88 Spe reaches 230 Speed, which outspeeds... Max Spe Adamant Scizor / Tyranitar. Seems reasonable, but maybe more bulk would be preferable?

Click to expand...

Nah. In my opinion and experience, the EVs reached by the Defensive Rotom-A is enough as it is to check a good amount of threats, especially with Will-o-Wisp. Special Defense can be untouched because it can afford to survive most neutral Special hits, and if it gets through a Physical threat like Tyranitar (Band or so), burn it before it kills you with boosted Crunch. I really like outspeeding threats and making Scizor essentially useless.

If you ARE going to suggest "more bulk" on Defensive Rotom-A, consider a Double Platform status Rotom-A with no Speed EVs and Thunder Wave.

Essentially something like this (keep in mind that I'm just distributing leftover EVs so you're not eff'd by Physical attackers, so this may not be your cup of tea):

Rotom-A @ Leftovers
name: Double Platform Status
252 HP/168 Def/90 SpD (Special Defense)
~Will-O-Wisp
~Thunder Wave
~Thunderbolt
~Shadow Ball / (some utility move?)

Will-o-Wisp is a must because it has more utility overall than Toxic, imo. Plus you're slow and Physical attackers hate you already.

If it doesn't deserve its own analysis, maybe AC? Distribute in Special Defense and slap in Thunder Wave?

Also, we should really take a look at that SubSplit set, huh? It only needs one more QC stamp.

252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD Bold

i could also add to the pot of rotom sets and maybe suggest a reflect / light screen / paint split / tbolt set that has work wonders for a lot of people

I also vouch for having a Double Screen set listed. As for the spreads on the SubCharge set, I personally like the second one more. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 128 HP Evs are used so that Blissey doesn't break your Substitute, and I certainly consider that being more offensive (which enables Rotom to hit Tyranitar, Heatran, etc. a lot harder) is the way to go about this set. Let's see what the others think!

P.S: Substitute + Pain Split is ready to be added to the OP.

I'd like it if Reflect was slashed next to Will-O-Wisp on the Defensive Set because Will-o-Wisp gives Fire-types a free switch-in, especially Heatran that are looking to gain that free Flash Fire Boost. The bonus of using Reflect is that at least the rest of the team has some aid in taking physical Attacks.

252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD Calm (Rotom-C)
252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD Bold (Rotom-F, Rotom-H)
252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD Bold (Rotom-S)
252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD Calm (Rotom-W)

Click to expand...

Never understood what these spreads accomplished. I personally always used 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpA, Bold, as its never 3HKOed by Machamp's payback under reflect. But as far as analysis goes, I don't see why 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA, Bold wouldn't be the main spread. Rotom really doesn't take many special attacks, and with Will-O-Wisp / Reflect that set is a 100% always beat you Scizor and makes you much harder to be Pursuited by Tyranitar (he actually needs to predict). That set really is meant to be combatting physical threats and all the defensive investment is worth it for Gyarados, Scizor, Metagross, and (lol) Electivire.

I dont have an opinion on the parafusion but i too feel a Dual screen set deserves an analysis. I also agree with reflect getting a mention at minimum, its quite a viable option

I think either 252hp 252def 4 Spe Bold or 252 hp 200 def 56 S.def Bold are the best resttalk spreads. I would rather be more safe against gyarados and tyranitar than starmie (since if starmie wants to beat you, it will). Rotom-Hax looks pretty terrible to me....doesn't look like it would accomplish much really apart from maybe being able to switch out of tyranitar while it FPs or hits itself in confusion. I tried hp ice on resttalk rotom and i would only recommend it if you had sever gliscor issues (even then you need around 88 SpA EVs to stop it roosting it off so really I don't think it's worth it. Willowisp covers flygon and dragonite well enough in most cases anyway. I've seen many people use reflect on resttalk rotom, it probably warrants a slash (it's better than hp ice in most cases anyway). Notably it's good to defend against ttar when you have tspikes support.

Discharge is a legitimate option over Thunderbolt on the Dual Screen Set.

I think we should have LO Pain Split (primarily for Rotom-W) and Specs (again, primarily wash forme). I find these two to be simply the most effective rotom formes.

Also a small nitpick on the order of the sets. IMO based on popularity it should go:

Choice -> Rest Talk -> Sub Split -> Defensive -> Sub Charge Beam -> Dual Screen -> Rain Dance

And to clarify, since you have a question mark at the end of the choice set, yes a bulky spread should definitely be added, but only for the Scarf version IMO. Yes, WoW as an option on that too.

I also want to add that I think Modest should lose its slash and move to AC on the choice set. For Scarf, outspeeding Scarf Tran, Jolly Gyarados and Nite, Empoleon after the agility and speed tieing opposing Scarf Rotom-A's are far too important, particularly the former two. For Specs, outspeeding Adamant Luke, Timid Suicune, + Speed Heatran, Jolly Mamoswine, Timid Kingdra and Speed Tying other Rotom-A are also too important IMO to run Modest. Also, is there any need to call the set "Special Choice"? Since Rotom-A only uses special attacks, Choice is enough (I think).

I also agree with Pana, I think 252/252 Bold is the way to go on the resttalk set.

I tend to agree. I'll implement the changes "soon" when i get a chance.

Looks good, although like we discussed on IRC the Speed EVs may be a bit superfluous on the Defensive and Dual Screen sets but I'll leave that to you to decide whether you want to change it or not. Only other note i have is that for the Rain set, shouldn't Timid have the main option so you can outspeed Suicune, Heatran etc?



Or

Approved (1/3)

Come to think of it, you're right about the rain set. I'll mod it for Timid as the main option, since I can definitely see how outspeeding Suicune is great so you don't get owned in the ran, and how outspeeding Heatran can be great so you can Rain Dance before it gets in the Fire Blast.

Also, I've changed the speed EVs on the Defensive and Dual Screen sets to 48- this gives 220 Speed, which allows it to outspeed Modest Empoleon before an Agility.

OP - Choice Set said:

AC mention of bulky EV spread and Will-o-Wisp?

Click to expand...

Yes. 200 HP / 56 SpA / 252 Spe works very well, but I bet this spread can be made even better. As is, it allows Rotom-H to OHKO / 2HKO the Pokemon it needs to check and get rid of (Metagross, Lucario, Gyarados, Suicune, Infernape, etc) while at the same time retaining a lot of bulk to take hits on the switch-in considerably better.

Approved (2/3)

Whatever happened to that offensive and defensive subsplit + tbolt + wisp set I remember was in QC once and that I talked to Setsuna about... (I can't seem to find it on site, in QC or in the rejected set thread). Can we think about putting that set onsite because it was pretty good and I think it definitely deserves to be up there.

It's there, in the AC of the LO subsplit set. I talked to R_D, Megan Fox, and Setsuna about it, and they all agreed that since LO SubSplit is the significantly more popular set, and the sets work extremely similarly, they should be merged.