Gliscor (Uber Analysis)

QC: 2/2 (Great Sage, Fireburn) GP: 2/2 (Chou Toshio, Fatecrashers)


Gliscor


[Overview]

<p>Respectable bulk, few weaknesses, resistances to Fighting and Bug, and key immunities to grounded entry hazards, status, and Ground- and Electric-type moves provide Gliscor with ample opportunities to come in and set up a Substitute or just threaten opponents with STAB Ground-type moves from its very usable Speed stat. Poison Heal and Protect provide excellent passive recovery. As one of the premier Groudon counters in the game, Gliscor can also contribute excellently to a defensive core if necessary. Unfortunately, it is very weak on the special side, so in some scenarios Gliscor can turn out to be completely dead weight. However, if you play to Gliscor's strengths, it will prove to be a marvelous asset to your team.</p>

[SET]
name: Uber Substitute
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Protect / Taunt
move 3: Toxic
move 4: Earthquake
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Come in on Choice-locked Ground or Electric attacks, Groudon, or on something Gliscor can force out with Earthquake and set up a Substitute. Gliscor can then proceed to cripple the switch-in with Toxic, or just outright Earthquake if they are immune to the status. The combination of Protect and Substitute provide a full 32 turns of undisturbed stalling, which means that anything with Life Orb, burn, poison, or Choice-locked into a low PP move will be forced to switch or die. Taunt is an excellent option over Protect, Toxic, or Earthquake, as without it this set is a sitting duck for Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress to set up on. Taunt also allows you to take on Chansey, Blissey, and Pokemon with healing moves attempting to heal off damage and poison. Unfortunately, removing any of the moves listed above can pose severe problems to the set's overall effectiveness. The loss of Protect reduces Gliscor's healing capabilities and means that it can't scout as easily or PP and Toxic stall for 32 turns. Removing Earthquake leaves Gliscor vulnerable to being countered continually by any Steel- or Poison-type with Leftovers. Toxic is also not a good thing to remove, as even with Toxic Spikes up, Levitators, Flying-types, and Air Balloon users can all come in with impunity.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Another option for the set is using 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD with an Impish nature, as this allows Gliscor to take on Scarf Zekrom far more easily, in addition to setting up on support Groudon variants with little to no trouble. However, the loss of that much Speed is not without its disadvantages.</p>

<p>The beauty of Gliscor's Speed stat is that it outspeeds the common base 90 group, meaning it can Toxic as they break the sub and then set up a Substitute again before they have the opportunity to move. Better yet, faster pokemon like Palkia, Rayquaza, Mewtwo, Shaymin-S, and Darkrai that could prevent Gliscor from using Toxic before executing the Substitute and Protect chain tend to carry Life Orb or Choice Scarf. Substitute allows Gliscor to scout the move that Choiced Pokemon make and either PP stall it to give itself yet another free turn or switch to the appropriate counter. Now that Life Orb still causes recoil damage on Substitutes, Gliscor doesn't even need Toxic to incur passive damage on Pokemon that use it. These Pokemon will often die without even removing Gliscor of its Substitute, which means you can simply start the process over again on the opponent's next Pokemon.</p>

<p>As mentioned previously, this Gliscor handles almost any Groudon extremely well, being immune to Earthquake and neutral to Fire Punch, Stone Edge, and Dragon Claw. For offensive versions, simply Toxic and then SubStall away. Support versions are even easier to deal with, as they typically lack the punch to break Gliscor's Substitute with Dragon Tail, and may have only the inaccurate and low PP Stone Edge to retaliate with. Support Groudon can easily provide you with several free Substitute opportunities throughout the game, each one often netting a kill. The standard Dragon Tail / Will-O-Wisp Giratina set provides equally good setup fodder, as Dragon Tail doesn't break Gliscor's Substitute. Gliscor can also set up against Dragon Claw variants of Giratina-O, as Dragon Claw does only so-so damage and Draco Meteors are absorbed by the Substitute. Outrage variants are handled pretty easily as well, but Gliscor will take a good chunk of damage when Toxicing on an Outrage. Ground Arceus, although relatively rare, is also a good Pokemon to switch in on.</p>

<p>Gliscor can also do some other important things for your team. It is an excellent switch-in to U-turn because it is resistant to Bug, immune to Spikes, and can heal back HP and scout the opposing switch-in with Poison Heal and Protect. Gliscor's 12.5% passive recovery is also useful for taking on Leech Seeders such as Whimsicott and Jumpluff, as their seeding will do 0 net damage, meaning Gliscor can switch around and easily waste Leech Seed PP. If you are especially weak to Choice Specs Kyogre you can also use Gliscor's Substitute and Protect to stall Kyogre out of Water Spout PP.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>If Roost is an option worth considering for your team, recognize that it isn't allowed with Poison Heal, which means Gliscor loses immunity to status and 6.25% healing every turn. The healing from Poison Heal and Protect is typically enough to keep Gliscor healthy throughout the match. Stealth Rock is also illegal with Poison Heal. Gliscor has Baton Pass, Swords Dance, and Agility at its disposal, but it is generally inferior to Mew for Baton Pass sets, as it is easily dispatched by Kyogre, even when behind dual screens.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Manaphy with rain support is arguably the best Gliscor counter, with immunity to Toxic and high defenses to avoid taking heavy Earthquake damage; it is further aided by its excellent healing option in Rest, and STAB Surf with which to hit Gliscor's Water-type weakness. Defensive Kyogre with Rest, and Refresh Arceus and Latias variants can easily shrug off Gliscor's moves and set up Calm Mind. You should also be careful of Palkia, as it can fake a Choice Scarf with Lustrous Orb and ruin your attempts to switch in something else to take the hit. Ferrothorn is immune to Toxic and takes relatively little from Earthquake; it can retaliate with Power Whips and Gyro Balls that do decent enough damage to easily break the Substitute. Skarmory has to watch out for Taunt, but is immune to Earthquake and Toxic and can set up Spikes or Whirlwind Gliscor out. Bronzong, although less common, is also immune to both moves, but cares even less about Taunt. All of these Pokemon are also more than capable of PP stalling Gliscor as well if necessary.</p>

<p>A number of other things also resist the combination of Toxic and Earthquake, although they rarely if ever show up in Ubers. Crobat, Gengar, Weezing, opposing Gliscor, and Magic Bounce Xatu can halt Gliscor without the need for items, while any Poison- or Steel-type with Air Balloon, most notably Excadrill and Heatran, can switch in with impunity. Anything faster with Taunt or Substitutes that aren't broken by Earthquake can also be a problem for this set, although Toxic Spikes support can mitigate this issue somewhat.</p>

Looks good, I remember being destroyed by that once :(
Btw, you mentioned Taunt as an option over Toxic, so maybe you should slash it after it.

Maybe mention wobbufet as a partner for its ability to trap and take out counters. Magnezone works too for steels like Skarmory Ferroseed and Forretress.

Gliscor really is legit in Ubers. It sure has a way of turning games into an out-prediction contest. Gliscor has good defense and resists/is immune to U-Turn/Volt Change. It might be worth a mention that Jumpluff (and even Whimsicott) can come in on anything but Toxic and Taunt, and they can use their speed to Encore you and (threaten to) switch to a counter. However, this can only work when Gliscor doesn't have a sub up.

Making/going to make some minor edits regarding the Magnezone partnership and some other uses for Gliscor. I used Magnezone for a brief period but ended up going back before I had a chance to actually use it on a Skarmory lol. Also added the Bug resist thing. It has been a while since I have had to take a U-turn with it, so I kind of forgot about that detail.

Added this to the index, in the future please post there saying that you've reserved a Pokemon . Thank You.

Ya sorry I am a C & C noob. I did talk to trickroom and a couple other QC guys on irc about it though. I will do so in the future. Thanks for adding it to the index.

I think an Impish Nature of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD deserves a mention somewhere. It helps Gliscor to wall Choice Scarf Zekrom and Swords Dance Groudon better.

I think Taunt should be slashed in over Protect because Gliscor has lots of opportunity to come in and wreck havoc without the need of Protect. I tried Gliscor myself and found Taunt to be very useful because it stops walls such as Skarmory from doing anything. Ferrothorn hates Taunt as well.

Toxic is way too important in my opinion. There are lots of Flying or levitate things in Ubers. Giratina-O, Lugia, Ho-Oh and Rayquaza being the main ones. You can at least poison them with Toxic before switching out. Gliscor can stall out Giratina-O as well.

<p> As mentioned previously, this Gliscor handles almost any Groudon extremely well, being immune to Earthquake and neutral to Fire Punch, Stone Edge, and Dragon Claw. For offensive versions, simply Toxic and then sub-stall away. Support versions are even better, as they typically lack the punch to kill your Substitute with Dragon Tail, and may have only the inaccurate and low-pp Stone Edge to retaliate with. Support Groudon can easily provide you with several free Substitutes throughout the game, each one often netting a kill. The standard Dragon Tail / Will-o-Wisp set provides equally good setup fodder.

Click to expand...

since when did groudon learn WoW

trickroom said:

Toxic is way too important in my opinion. There are lots of Flying or levitate things in Ubers. Giratina-O, Lugia, Ho-Oh and Rayquaza being the main ones. You can at least poison them with Toxic before switching out. Gliscor can stall out Giratina-O as well.

Click to expand...

for giratina, not necessarily, if it's the stallbreaker set...
Plus Lugia tend to sometimes have ice beam.
if they don't switch in on a toxic, you have to switch

jonathanrp said:

for giratina, not necessarily, if it's the stallbreaker set...
Plus Lugia tend to sometimes have ice beam.
if they don't switch in on a toxic, you have to switch

Click to expand...

what stallbreaker are you talking about? Giratina breaking stall?lol

If you meant Giratina-O, Gliscor can sub on Draco Meteor and beat Giratina-O with Toxic. For Giratina-A, Gliscor can Taunt it to prevent recovery then Toxic it to death.

Lugia can Ice Beam but at least you can Toxic it on the switch or if you are hiding behind a sub.

the stallbreaker set on site

Stallbreaker
Griseous Orb
Modest
~ Calm Mind
~ Dragon Pulse / Shadow Ball
~ Shadow Ball / Thunder / Aura Sphere
~ Substitute
86 HP / 216 SpA / 96 SpD / 112 Spe
yeah, I meant giratina-o -_-

*Edit* Nevermind, looks like this was already covered. Although I would mention Roar in addition to Whirlwind (I don't know if it's seen in Ubers or not, but a Balloon Heatran with Roar can also get rid of Gliscor).

@ Fatecrashers: Thanks for catching that. I was referring to Giratina but forgot to mention it by name haha.

@ trickroom: I will discuss max def and will slash Taunt over Protect. I will also talk about Giratina O. Do I get a stamp now :D

EDIT: @ TobesMcGobes: Thank you, I think it is cool too :3 I haven't tested either of those, but they sound good. I considered mentioning Baton Pass but it is an egg move so isn't it incompatible with Poison Heal? I don't know much about breeding and whatnot so someone please fill me in so I can test Baton Pass.

EDIT 2: @ calze, yeah I should include an optional comments section, good point. I will try to test some regular Sand Veil Roost variants and see how they do, but honestly I think Poison Heal is far superior.

@ berry, thanks for the comment, I agree.

Perhaps Torment and Baton Pass should get a brief mention? Torment obviously helps against Choice users, but also gives more turns of poison damage against things that carry only one move that can break Gliscor's Subs. Meanwhile Baton Pass lets Gliscor pull out of a counter and possibly give the switch-in an intact Sub, allowing it to set up easily or start nailing things. Also Tyranitar should get a mention because SS damage really starts stacking up with all of that poison damage.

This is pretty cool btw.

I've seen this set in action, and it's kind of hard to conceptualize on paper how surprisingly effective it is. It really benefits from the fact that Ubers is a tier where Pokemon use a lot of low PP moves.

QC APPROVED 1/2

Ugh this thing is an annoying little bugger that I wish would just go away.

That said, its very effective.

QC APPROVED (2/2)

Mention its especially effective against balance that uses sun x_x (which is a lot of teams...)

Where is optional comments? Also, a taunt roost set is still viable so it should me mentioned.

calze6 said:

Where is optional comments? Also, a taunt roost set is still viable so it should me mentioned.

Click to expand...

Roost means throwing away Gliscor's best asset his ability-Poison Heal. IMO Poison Heal is far better option to Roost.

Do any of the QC team members agree that I should add or test Taunt/Roost and Baton Pass sets? I question their viability, but I would be happy to at least test them.

Hmmm... I think Taunt is useful on the current set, but really Gliscor doesn't have much time to roost. It needs to keep that substitute up to prevent getting hammered usually. Protect + Substitute + Poison Heal is really all it needs in my opinion. Also, why would you use Baton Pass Gliscor when you can just use Mew. I think that would be a bit of a waste, but test it if you want.

I don't think Roost is good because Poison Heal is what makes Gliscor unique. Immunity to status is always nice. Skarmory is better for Roost. Gliscor can already get a lot of recovery from Poison Heal or Protect if you have it.

Don't use Baton Pass, it isn't really good. Baton Pass is a really situational strategy at the moment due to Dragon Tail and Kyogre can still OHKO Gliscor through screens. Mew is the best Baton Passer and yet he isn't that good in this gen in Ubers.

Yeah that was my impression too. I won't bother testing them.

EDIT: I would also like some opinions regarding how I should section off the additional comments section.

Change/Add
Remove



Excellent job

Thank you for the check and commendation Chou Toshio! Most of your points are pretty good, however I think you misinterpretted the first sentence which you fixed. Groudon doesn't use Electric attacks, so I can't really word it like that. I seperated Groudon to emphasize that you wall any hit, not just specific choiced ones. I will change the other parts though. I appreciate your input.

EDIT: I just noticed the editting done by Rising_Dusk. Much appreciated.

Do I get some stamps?