¿Cloning is hacking?

[sniDer]

Hi, I'm kind of new. Excuse me for the bad spelling and sintax, I'm not a native speaker. If this post doesn't correspond here please don't erase it, can you just relocate it? Excuse my ignorance...

I saw some days ago a thread about hacking and it leave me with an angry feeling because almost everyone's trade threads advertise that they only trade "legit". My concern is this: If hacking is equal to go beyond (no ps3 ads here...) the limitations of the game, ¿what is cloning, then? To me, be able to make a perfect copy of one pókemon for trade and still keep the original is hacking. I mean, a pokémon clon is a hack, it doesn't matter if it has regular IV's, moves, etc... You're making a pókemon out of nothing, I don't care if the original was "legit", it gives you an advantage over the people that not use clonning: you can make six copies of your lucario and try differents movesets and testing, of course that matters if you spent one week breeding it, but according to the rules of the game you shouldn't be able to clone it. By clonning it you're getting at least other pokémon with amazing IV's and moves... for me that's not to fair.

The same goes for the TMs: in the game you're only given 1 grass knot... some of you mabe think that if you trade a póke for the TM it's legit, but c'on nobody in this forum would trade you his only grass knot if they couldn't clonning it. Clone pókes and items gives you a huge advantage over people that doesn't do it: you can have one or more póke in your team with grass knot that can only learn it from TM, you can make different movesets for the same póke without the need of breed six lucarios with good IV's, you can trade a cloned poke and there are people that don't clone and doesn't can trade they breeding proyects because they don't clone.

This is my point of view, I got angry when I enter the trading threads and the trader says "My pókemans are "legit" and I expect yours to be... I don't want your hacked bullshit..." I mean, I understand that you hate a Wonder Guard Spiritomb or some bullshit like that, but a hacked pókemon with legit IV's, moves and nature is more or less equal to a clonned póke: you're saving a lot of time breeding a póke, you simply clone your harded breeded pókeman a thousand times and get a thousand of others clones.... for me it's not a lot of difference.

 

[Cooper]

What's your point? If you're trying to get people to stop cloning, good luck. The reason cloned pokemon aren't considered hacked is because this is a competitive battling site. To be asked to re-breed over and over again to have pokemon to trade is an utter waste of time. As long as the pokemon doesn't break any rules, who cares whether it's hacked or not (besides you)?

 

[Amandabynes]

If you don't like cloning then don't come here. You shouldn't just give us your biased opinion.

on topic: I dont find anything with cloning.

 

[TheMantyke]

It's kind of easy to explain

The method is illegit, but the pokemon created in the process aren't.

 

[Jibaku]

I don't like these kinds of discussions. I've been through over 10 of them on Serebii and I've had it!

BTW if something is out of the game's capability, how is it that you can do it in the game?

 

[Dietrich]

Well I think is completly fair and not a Hacking thing because only when you use an Action Replay or GameShark or a certain device to enter some codes into the database of the game that is Hacking, but taking advantage of a glitch from the game? that's not hacking that's being intelligent, everybody is capable of cloning they just have to be patient and find the exact time to turn the DS off, why are you going to rebreed again?

All my friends cloned their pokemon and i was the only one who didn't know how to do it, but with practice finally I made it and now I can clon it's pretty easy when you practice, if you can't do it "that's your problem", those pokemon in my opinion are completly Legal >.> sorry if I made a mistake writting this, i'm not a native spearker either.

Pd: I don't care if I fight agaisnt hacked pokemon as long as they don't break any rules like illegal movepool, trait or super ultra stats, it's fine to me i'll fight them with my legal friends.

 

[AgostonF]

Oh man, I'm getting gamefaqs flashbacks like old people from the war. Anyway, I allow cloning, if Nintendo made a mistake (I'm not really blaming them, I'm sure even if I knew how to code and everything I'd make a shitload of mistakes), I think we can abuse it, but when people make devices to exploit the game not through glitches but by hacking, I consider it non-legit. But really the only time hacking bothers me is when people try to sell them off as legit.

 

[sa17dk]

The reason cloned pokemon aren't considered hacked is because this is a competitive battling site.

Also the reason why hacking for perfect IV's shouldn't be an issue.

But I wont get into that right now.

(Btw, this wasn't directed towards you Cooper.)

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

If you can trade, then you can clone. Trading is within the rules of the game (it's encouraged!), so cloning should be within the rules, too. Don't think of cloning as hacking; think of it as exploiting a glitch. That's how I think of it, anyway.

 

[Davy]

Hi, I'm kind of new. Excuse me for the bad spelling and sintax, I'm not a native speaker. If this post doesn't correspond here please don't erase it, can you just relocate it? Excuse my ignorance...

I saw some days ago a thread about hacking and it leave me with an angry feeling because almost everyone's trade threads advertise that they only trade "legit". My concern is this: If hacking is equal to go beyond (no ps3 ads here...) the limitations of the game, ¿what is cloning, then? To me, be able to make a perfect copy of one pókemon for trade and still keep the original is hacking. I mean, a pokémon clon is a hack, it doesn't matter if it has regular IV's, moves, etc... You're making a pókemon out of nothing, I don't care if the original was "legit", it gives you an advantage over the people that not use clonning: you can make six copies of your lucario and try differents movesets and testing, of course that matters if you spent one week breeding it, but according to the rules of the game you shouldn't be able to clone it. By clonning it you're getting at least other pokémon with amazing IV's and moves... for me that's not to fair.

The same goes for the TMs: in the game you're only given 1 grass knot... some of you mabe think that if you trade a póke for the TM it's legit, but c'on nobody in this forum would trade you his only grass knot if they couldn't clonning it. Clone pókes and items gives you a huge advantage over people that doesn't do it: you can have one or more póke in your team with grass knot that can only learn it from TM, you can make different movesets for the same póke without the need of breed six lucarios with good IV's, you can trade a cloned poke and there are people that don't clone and doesn't can trade they breeding proyects because they don't clone.

This is my point of view, I got angry when I enter the trading threads and the trader says "My pókemans are "legit" and I expect yours to be... I don't want your hacked bullshit..." I mean, I understand that you hate a Wonder Guard Spiritomb or some bullshit like that, but a hacked pókemon with legit IV's, moves and nature is more or less equal to a clonned póke: you're saving a lot of time breeding a póke, you simply clone your harded breeded pókeman a thousand times and get a thousand of others clones.... for me it's not a lot of difference.

People have a choice to clone or to not...

 

[QibingZero]

The general sentiment I stick with is: If you're going to take the time to glitch or use a third party program to clone pokemon, you might as well just hack it anyhow. The game was clearly designed with regards that each pokemon was to be unique, and I really don't see how you can argue against that. If a thousand people have the same Jolteon with the same stats, I can't see how you can even attempt to call it legit anymore.

If we're all going to claim this is about 'competitive pokemon', we should be hacking everything along the lines of a simulator and just using those teams to battle with. That's what we mean when we use that term - let's be honest for once. There was a time when breeding and all the randomness involved was part of the competitive game, but now we've reached a point where people just want to battle. So, battle. Why do you need to rationalize it as if you're still putting the work into it when you're really not?

 

[Jibaku]

Why do you need to rationalize it as if you're still putting the work into it when you're really not?

Because you already DID you work, and now it's time to kick back.

The way I see it as if you use a glitch in the game that isn't a metagame breaker in the competitive aspect of pokemon, it is legit. Executing a glitch in the game is legit to some and illegit to others, and that is what I cannot explain.

Without cloning, life is miserable when trading.

 

[Eyelander]

First of all, whether YOU want to only accept your version of "legit", that is, uncloned, go ahead. If you can't deal with that, then the OP is more of a complaint than a discussion, and simply invites flaming.
Secondly, cloning is central to TRADING, an aspect I'm sure you can see as central to POKEMON. Without cloning, trading would be pretty much dead, limited to one person you can trade with after who knows how long of breeding. I wouldn't call cloning "making a pokemon out of nothing," as it is completely different to actually hacking a pokemon. If hacking devices didn't exist, would we still be able to clone? Yes, because Nintendo said so.
And half of your (the OP) posts whine about the people that CANT clone. Now, who might those people be? GTS cloning has been clearly explained in countless guides, and AR cloning produces the SAME EFFECT as this "more legit" way of cloning, which is why that is also generally accepted, and you could find people with ARs all over the net. There's really nothing against cloning, and if you can't do it, lol

 

[QibingZero]

Because you already DID you work, and now it's time to kick back.

The way I see it as if you use a glitch in the game that isn't a metagame breaker in the competitive aspect of pokemon, it is legit. Executing a glitch in the game is legit to some and illegit to others, and that is what I cannot explain.

Without cloning, life is miserable when trading.

Then, honestly, why not just hack the exact same thing you're cloning; or better yet, the exact thing you're trading for? I don't see the compromise at all. Either I'm going to breed for something and raise it, and in the end have some sense of accomplishment, or I'm going to hack it to just 'skip to the battling and save time'.

And what is the real purpose of trading when supplies are infinite via cloning anyhow? Even if you view cloning as legit and hacking as not, what are the chances that everything you've acquired is just cloned and not hacked? If you choose that stance, you're taking a huge risk to your integrity just by trading in the first place. And if you don't care about receiving hacked stuff, why bother going through all the mess of cloning and trading at all? (Unless, of course, you don't have access to an AR or something)

 

[Jibaku]

Then, honestly, why not just hack the exact same thing you're cloning; or better yet, the exact thing you're trading for? I don't see the compromise at all. Either I'm going to breed for something and raise it, and in the end have some sense of accomplishment, or I'm going to hack it to just 'skip to the battling and save time'.
Because
1) Action Replay costs money. Well, so do the games but Actio Replay is useless without games
2) There are hidden data in the pokemon which differentiates hacks and normals

And what is the real purpose of trading when supplies are infinite via cloning anyhow? Even if you view cloning as legit and hacking as not, what are the chances that everything you've acquired is just cloned and not hacked? If you choose that stance, you're taking a huge risk to your integrity just by trading in the first place. And if you don't care about receiving hacked stuff, why bother going through all the mess of cloning and trading at all? (Unless, of course, you don't have access to an AR or something)
The best things in life are free. And FYI I don't have AR

 

[Steven718]

Also the reason why hacking for perfect IV's shouldn't be an issue.

But I wont get into that right now.

(Btw, this wasn't directed towards you Cooper.)

Actually that should be an issue. Then everyone would be required to hack 31 iv pokemon to compete. The playing field is level if all use legit pokemon, why take it to that next level of illegitimacy when it's not needed? If you want to play with cookie cutter pokemon, take it to shoddy.

 

[Firestorm]

Basically:
Cloning = Exploit
"Hacking" = Changing game values using an external device

If you use an AR or something, you are using something OUTSIDE the game to manipulate the game code to get what you want.

When cloning, you're merely exploiting the fact that the game saves more than one time. No external aid.

Since it's something you can do within the realm of the game, it's considered legit.

 

[obi]

Let me begin by saying that people who aren't staff members shouldn't be telling other people whether they belong here and attempting to make authoritative statements about the site.

Now, as for my personal view (I feel I need to specify that this isn't necessarily the official line after saying the above), I believe the code is the final arbiter of what is legit. If you can do something within the confines of the game, and if something isn't explicitly banned (for instance, you can teach a Pokemon Double Team, but if the ruleset you are playing in bans that, you can't use it), then it's not 'illegal'.

If you specifically state, therefore, that you do not wish to trade for clones, or with people who clone, I would expect that people be honorable and disclose such information to you.

 

[Ranevski]

I hate what cloning has done to the game. I hate how it's made the level of 'perfection' needed in a competitive team so incredibly high. Cloning has made the game a lot more dull and less suprising in general. Everyone has similar pokemon due to being able to clone tms, items like leftovers, and the pokemon themselves. When I was twelve or so playing pokemon red I thought it was the coolest thing in the world because it saved so much time, but now I've come to realise that really, it's soured a lot of aspects in the game that made it so fun. Namely the ability to be unique (everything is a LOT less unique now.)

But the thing with cloning is that technically, the pokemon is legit. You can look at it however you want, and you can argue it's benefits and downfalls, but in the end the pokemon is legit. The pokemon was found in game. It was raised in game. It was EV trained properly. It was taught moves via in game leveling up and the use of in game acquired tm's. It was raised by an actual person. That pokemon is 100% legit. When you duplicate it you don't create another pokemon with the same stats/moves/etc. It may seem like it, but you don't. You actually just duplicate the save state, and that pokemon now exists in two places at once. Technically both pokemon are still the same level100 infernape you had since the start of the game and poured all your (legitimate) effort into. It's just that now he exists in two places at the same time (or 3... or 4... etc). From there one version goes on to lead on life and the other version a different life.

I think cloning goes against the games original design and while it has its functional merits, has been bad for the game overall. But none of that changes the fact that in game cloning is 100% legit.

 

[The_Rider]

Cloning is not considered hacking in anyway as you are merely making use of the resources that are available to you in-game. Cloning also is good because it saves tons of times and allows people who don't live in NY or Jap to get the event pokemon nintendo gives out. Also it allows you to get other pokemon for the one you spent so much time in breeding/SRing. All in all clonig is not bad and actually has lots of benefits for those who know how to do it.

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

For those who say cloning is bad for the game, I can see where you're coming from. Then again, Obi has a point, too. However, cloning is available to anyone who can trade; if you can't trade, you're most likely not able to battle competitively on WiFi, and if you can't battle on WiFi, then cloning shouldn't even matter to you.

The point is: if you can battle competitively on WiFi, then cloning is available to you; if you really care about battling, you should clone because everyone else (that will also care about it) will. But, if cloning goes against your values, that's fine, too. The choice is yours.

On a side note, I'm curious: how many of you actually have legit Pokes with max. IVs? Is it worth the time to breed for max. IVs in every stat that matters? (Imagine the time THAT would take. XD) Clone a Poke like that nonstop and distribute it; you'd become quite popular then, wouldn't you? (Perhaps I think too highly of that feat, don't I?)

 

[Medi Guy]

For those who say cloning is bad for the game, I can see where you're coming from. Then again, Obi has a point, too. However, cloning is available to anyone who can trade; if you can't trade, you're most likely not able to battle competitively on WiFi, and if you can't battle on WiFi, then cloning shouldn't even matter to you.

The point is: if you can battle competitively on WiFi, then cloning is available to you; if you really care about battling, you should clone because everyone else (that will also care about it) will. But, if cloning goes against your values, that's fine, too. The choice is yours.

On a side note, I'm curious: how many of you actually have legit Pokes with max. IVs? Is it worth the time to breed for max. IVs in every stat that matters? (Imagine the time THAT would take. XD) Clone a Poke like that nonstop and distribute it; you'd become quite popular then, wouldn't you? (Perhaps I think too highly of that feat, don't I?)

While I am loath to get involved with the "is cloning legit?" discussion, as it's quite complicated, this answer is simpler. It's relatively easy to get max IVs in three stats, and there are many Pokemon that only really depend on three. As such, it's also within the realm of possibility to breed for four max IVs, or three max IVs plus two high ones, which is all that almost all Pokemon need. Doing so is a huge time commitment, though, which is why you almost always see Pokemon with only 3 max IVs.

Breeding for six max IVs is effectively impossible, so if you see a Pokemon like that it's almost certainly hacked.

There's a breeding guide somewhere on Smogon that details how to easily get 3 max IVs, so if you're interested look for that.

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

While I am loath to get involved with the "is cloning legit?" discussion, as it's quite complicated, this answer is simpler. It's relatively easy to get max IVs in three stats, and there are many Pokemon that only really depend on three. As such, it's also within the realm of possibility to breed for four max IVs, or three max IVs plus two high ones, which is all that almost all Pokemon need. Doing so is a huge time commitment, though, which is why you almost always see Pokemon with only 3 max IVs.

Breeding for six max IVs is effectively impossible, so if you see a Pokemon like that it's almost certainly hacked.

There's a breeding guide somewhere on Smogon that details how to easily get 3 max IVs, so if you're interested look for that.

I did look at that, which is why I asked the question in the first place. I'd still take the time to try to pull it off, though. Would it be worth the edge? (I probably know the answer, but I want to see what everyone else thinks.)

 

[COalex]

Let's say I breed for 20+ hours to get an all max Skarmory, and person B breeds for 20+ hours to get an all max Chansey. I then use my AR to hack myself an all max Chansey, making person B's 20+ hours all for naught, and he hacks himself an all max Skarmory, doing the same to all my devoted hours of breeding. Is this trading? Either way, we wind up with the same pokemon we would have if we had simply traded the Skarmory and Chansey, thanks to cloning.

Not trying to make a point, just thinking (typing?) out loud.

 

[The_Rider]

yes it is worth the edge and it is actually possible to get 6 perfect IVs but the chances are so slim that most people just think of it as illegit(much simpler that way).