Israelest boy Thorns...
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[ℬlḠ] Mafia Mafia 2 [Won by The Mafia]
- Thread starter LonelyNess
- Start date
I think you got the wrong people to acknowledge you.
It's nearly 4am here and I'm not going to try and say something really long and full of fail. All I'll say is that I still think Jumpluff's claim of Inspector is not enough for me to feel comfortable claiming to her.
First thing's first: I would not be surprised if Czech Republic is in fact a member of the Mafia.
If Jumpluff is in fact the Inspector, then kudos for defying her sig and making an awesome rand. However, if she's mafia, then they've given up a role that, as far as I'm reading it, is on the expendable side of the spectrum. This way, when we inevitably join in the lynch for D1 and destroy Czech Republic, it's going to make Jumpluff's claim look very solid, and everyone's claims will come flowing in. I'd expect everyone to have thought of this by now, but just in case you were dazzled by her particularly in-your-face approach to asking for claims.
Now, pretty much everything in this post is going to reek of scum, and I'm perfectly aware of it. But, since Jumpluff has flat-out told me that she's considering me mafia from this point on, I don't think it particularly matters. I'm pretty well Vanillager, so no one's losing out on anything from me not being in the loop. So long as the village's target for the day is stated somewhere, I'll go along with the lynch. That's about all I can do at this point, barring my pitiful infoish mini-ability that we all seem to have gotten.
So here's the #1 way to make myself sound like Mafia. I'm going to make some guesses at the layout of the game. Now, based on what little has gone on so far, I think the game being 1v1 is legit, and it really is a "back-to-basics" sort of idea. Now, based on that, the Village to Mafia ratio is maybe somewhere in the neighborhood of 3:1, give or take a few. The numbers on that are, of course, without any real basis other than, "it's just how mafia is."
Anyway, regardless of the actual numbers, the fact is that the Mafia are a minority. So, again, kudos if you're really inspector and managed to rand a Mafioso on your first shot. I hope your luck persists, honestly, because it'll make for any easy win. But the easiest way for a fake Inspector to gain trust is to find a Mafioso. And this one certainly happened at a good time.
Now, I'm accused of "standard diversionary tactics" by Jumpluff, since I refused to claim after seeing her post. When I presented this argument to her, she just got increasingly aggressive, trying to threaten me into claiming. (At least it's how I perceived it at the time. Again, that was at 3am, so I might be exaggerating a touch)
I say it's just as plausible that Jumpluff's using some standard Mafia fakeclaim tactics.
Now, here's the problem with all of what I'm saying. If Jumpluff is in fact the real Inspector, it's very possible that she won't be able to properly clean herself for several cycles. Czech Rep. will turn up Mafia when lynched, I'm 90% sure of it. But if Jumpluff doesn't get an adequate number of alias claims and is forced to rand again then there's a good chance she won't get lucky again, and just inspects Villagers (hopefully me, but that's unlikely). In my opinion, it's not until the second Mafia member is lynched as a result of Jumpluff's Inspect results that I'm satisfied with her claim to the point where I can give up my info fully.
Now, fellow Vanillagers also shouldn't fall into the trap of feeling like it doesn't matter if they give up something. If Jumpluff is Mafia, then every Vanilla alias the Mafia has means their chances of hitting a power role increases. I have no idea the number of power roles we can expect in this game, but it's probably safe to say that the number of power roles isn't too high compared to Vanillagers.
Now, some things that will make me slightly more trusting of Jumpluff's claim, though not necessarily enough to claim to her right away:
- Other Vanillagers posting up what their lawl-abilities do. I'm able to exercise with a target, and found out that, on a scale of 1-5, Mexico is a 2 in terms of how fit he of she is. The "Jonathan" in the N1 post had a similar ability, and even the Vanilla Mafioso had something like that, though it had some significant differences.
- Jumpluff adding in who Czech Republic's user is. I know it's not me, and it certainly isn't Jumpluff either.
Now, the majority of the rest of the conversation on between us was just Jumpluff trying to force a claim out of me. But there's one particular spot that pops out as I'm re-reading it.
Some more quoteables, this time from the thread:
So anyway, after all of that rambling, it basically comes down to what's been said: I don't believe handing out aliases is a good idea this early.
I don't expect anyone to claim to me or even trust me at this point, and I'm fine with that. Again, all I ask is that people exercise caution and make and make sure I'm throwing my lynchvote in the direction that's in the best interest of the Village.
Commence flaming, guys. And try to avoid the "you're new and not experienced in mafia" approach, because it's a pretty weak line of reasoning. New does not necessarily mean stupid or uninformed.
PS: It's now after 5am. Yay tl;dr post, boo having to wake up in 3 hours.
First thing's first: I would not be surprised if Czech Republic is in fact a member of the Mafia.
If Jumpluff is in fact the Inspector, then kudos for defying her sig and making an awesome rand. However, if she's mafia, then they've given up a role that, as far as I'm reading it, is on the expendable side of the spectrum. This way, when we inevitably join in the lynch for D1 and destroy Czech Republic, it's going to make Jumpluff's claim look very solid, and everyone's claims will come flowing in. I'd expect everyone to have thought of this by now, but just in case you were dazzled by her particularly in-your-face approach to asking for claims.
Now, pretty much everything in this post is going to reek of scum, and I'm perfectly aware of it. But, since Jumpluff has flat-out told me that she's considering me mafia from this point on, I don't think it particularly matters. I'm pretty well Vanillager, so no one's losing out on anything from me not being in the loop. So long as the village's target for the day is stated somewhere, I'll go along with the lynch. That's about all I can do at this point, barring my pitiful infoish mini-ability that we all seem to have gotten.
So here's the #1 way to make myself sound like Mafia. I'm going to make some guesses at the layout of the game. Now, based on what little has gone on so far, I think the game being 1v1 is legit, and it really is a "back-to-basics" sort of idea. Now, based on that, the Village to Mafia ratio is maybe somewhere in the neighborhood of 3:1, give or take a few. The numbers on that are, of course, without any real basis other than, "it's just how mafia is."
Anyway, regardless of the actual numbers, the fact is that the Mafia are a minority. So, again, kudos if you're really inspector and managed to rand a Mafioso on your first shot. I hope your luck persists, honestly, because it'll make for any easy win. But the easiest way for a fake Inspector to gain trust is to find a Mafioso. And this one certainly happened at a good time.
Now, I'm accused of "standard diversionary tactics" by Jumpluff, since I refused to claim after seeing her post. When I presented this argument to her, she just got increasingly aggressive, trying to threaten me into claiming. (At least it's how I perceived it at the time. Again, that was at 3am, so I might be exaggerating a touch)
I say it's just as plausible that Jumpluff's using some standard Mafia fakeclaim tactics.
Now, here's the problem with all of what I'm saying. If Jumpluff is in fact the real Inspector, it's very possible that she won't be able to properly clean herself for several cycles. Czech Rep. will turn up Mafia when lynched, I'm 90% sure of it. But if Jumpluff doesn't get an adequate number of alias claims and is forced to rand again then there's a good chance she won't get lucky again, and just inspects Villagers (hopefully me, but that's unlikely). In my opinion, it's not until the second Mafia member is lynched as a result of Jumpluff's Inspect results that I'm satisfied with her claim to the point where I can give up my info fully.
Now, fellow Vanillagers also shouldn't fall into the trap of feeling like it doesn't matter if they give up something. If Jumpluff is Mafia, then every Vanilla alias the Mafia has means their chances of hitting a power role increases. I have no idea the number of power roles we can expect in this game, but it's probably safe to say that the number of power roles isn't too high compared to Vanillagers.
Now, some things that will make me slightly more trusting of Jumpluff's claim, though not necessarily enough to claim to her right away:
- Other Vanillagers posting up what their lawl-abilities do. I'm able to exercise with a target, and found out that, on a scale of 1-5, Mexico is a 2 in terms of how fit he of she is. The "Jonathan" in the N1 post had a similar ability, and even the Vanilla Mafioso had something like that, though it had some significant differences.
- Jumpluff adding in who Czech Republic's user is. I know it's not me, and it certainly isn't Jumpluff either.
Bolded the important bits, left the other bits since it doesn't matter. Anyway, I say that nothing bad can come from her publicly claiming the user attached to the alias she hit. If someone can give me a reason why that's a poor idea, I'm interested to hear it.Jumpluff on IRC said:
Now, the majority of the rest of the conversation on between us was just Jumpluff trying to force a claim out of me. But there's one particular spot that pops out as I'm re-reading it.
I'm personally not going to disagree with that. If there is an Inspector (that isn't Jumpluff), I think it's probably a solid idea to claim now. Other power roles should stay quiet, since telling the mafia our full arsenal of power roles is stupid.Jumpluff on IRC said:
Some more quoteables, this time from the thread:
Now, I'm not going to say she was totally wrong in what she said, but, at the same time, this game is anonymous. Jumpluff claiming Inspector when she's Mafia doesn't have a huge downside, since she can't be namekilled if someone counter claims. It just means she's limited to only chatting with other Mafia members.Jumpluff said:
Compared to her initial post, this one has quite a bit more urgency in it. Now, she offers up a reason for urgency, of course, but the fact that another Inspector might pop up at any second is fully viable, and she's just trying to milk the time she has. Because of the time when the update/results happened (around 1am/2am respectively my time (GMT -4)) it's very likely that another Inspector, who happened to be lying in wait to see what Jumpluff did with her claim, wasn't around for the update, or at least the results.Jumpluff said:
So anyway, after all of that rambling, it basically comes down to what's been said: I don't believe handing out aliases is a good idea this early.
I don't expect anyone to claim to me or even trust me at this point, and I'm fine with that. Again, all I ask is that people exercise caution and make and make sure I'm throwing my lynchvote in the direction that's in the best interest of the Village.
Commence flaming, guys. And try to avoid the "you're new and not experienced in mafia" approach, because it's a pretty weak line of reasoning. New does not necessarily mean stupid or uninformed.
PS: It's now after 5am. Yay tl;dr post, boo having to wake up in 3 hours.
has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like
Okay, sup dude, I was writing out a proper argument to your post and then I saw what Fate posted. Now you're attempting to get people to publicly out their abilities? Why don't you reread your post before wasting my time with this crap? You're the one saying I'm pressuring for info and then you try to jeopardise all the village's info (which according to you is what we have in lieu of an inspector, since apparently in your world villages don't have full inspectors, which makes what you're doing even worse, since with the lack of an inspector vanillagers with important parts of the puzzle become particularly more vulnerable and valuable) publicly?
Let me reiterate. From your perspective, we for some reason don't have an inspector. Instead, we have a bunch of disorganised villagers who have to organise themselves to somehow create a puzzle, several or so mafia easily fitting in because there's no quick way to clean people that can be trusted by other people (since you can't really prove your role so easily otherwise). This is the best we have instead of an inspector. What do you propose they do? Expose themselves in public so the mafia knows which people have what results.
Please don't do this, guys. It flies in the face of common sense.
Anyone who thinks I'd seriously sell out one of the smartest players in the game, someone a heck of a lot smarter than me, is delusional.
Also, what does my signature have to do with anything? It's a quote from 999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors (awesome DS puzzle-based visual novel, everyone play it).
PS: If you think what I did was in your face, you haven't seen shit. dak and LN make me look like a teddy bear. And I usually do get along with people, except when they repeatedly test my patience, which is not infinite. ^_^
PPS: Msot of the vanillagers I have spoken to have had some way to prove their role. They aren't really just pure vanilla, I'm calling them that because that is what LN called them in a conversation with me, and because they have the mobkill in absence of the slight things that distinguish each one. While I expect fitness is some weak way of discerning the 'power' of a role (in which case why you would decide to talk about this publicly and out powerful aliases potentially if you were really town eludes me, it really does), it's fairly unprovable, which adds more suspiciousness to your claim.
Oh, yeah, and:
I mean, really. Really.
...Wait, I just noticed. You're seriously arguing my reason for urgency isn't completely valid? I was calm and patient N1, now I have a mafia and am trying to organise the village. 'Cause you see, in big games, generally villages are in a hurry to organise themselves; they can't sit around for five cycles 'waiting to see' if a counterclaim presents itself. What I see is someone trying to hold up the organisation of the village, gj dude. I was open to your distrust and arguments at first but this has gotten to a point of 'seriously why am I even bothering'.
If I was trying to milk the time I had, I would've milked last night for all it was worth. I'm out of patience now because it's D1 and I have mafia and have posted my role PM and nobody has stepped up. Apparently you think we should wait indefinitely 'cause you never know, a CC might just pop up.
Let me reiterate. From your perspective, we for some reason don't have an inspector. Instead, we have a bunch of disorganised villagers who have to organise themselves to somehow create a puzzle, several or so mafia easily fitting in because there's no quick way to clean people that can be trusted by other people (since you can't really prove your role so easily otherwise). This is the best we have instead of an inspector. What do you propose they do? Expose themselves in public so the mafia knows which people have what results.
Please don't do this, guys. It flies in the face of common sense.
You're the only one I yelled at, don't talk about what you don't know. I'm a fairly patient person except when it comes to repetitive arguments and obstinacy for the sake of obstinacy, both of which you have demonstrated (that or you're mafia). I'm still trying to read your giant novel of a post but I'd just like to announce that billymills is Czech Republic. One of the main reasons I didn't post this publicly, which seems to have escaped your observation, is as to not invite billymills to start arguing in the thread.
Anyone who thinks I'd seriously sell out one of the smartest players in the game, someone a heck of a lot smarter than me, is delusional.
Also, what does my signature have to do with anything? It's a quote from 999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors (awesome DS puzzle-based visual novel, everyone play it).
PS: If you think what I did was in your face, you haven't seen shit. dak and LN make me look like a teddy bear. And I usually do get along with people, except when they repeatedly test my patience, which is not infinite. ^_^
PPS: Msot of the vanillagers I have spoken to have had some way to prove their role. They aren't really just pure vanilla, I'm calling them that because that is what LN called them in a conversation with me, and because they have the mobkill in absence of the slight things that distinguish each one. While I expect fitness is some weak way of discerning the 'power' of a role (in which case why you would decide to talk about this publicly and out powerful aliases potentially if you were really town eludes me, it really does), it's fairly unprovable, which adds more suspiciousness to your claim.
Oh, yeah, and:
This is why, from your perspective, all the info roles should out themselves.
I mean, really. Really.
...Wait, I just noticed. You're seriously arguing my reason for urgency isn't completely valid? I was calm and patient N1, now I have a mafia and am trying to organise the village. 'Cause you see, in big games, generally villages are in a hurry to organise themselves; they can't sit around for five cycles 'waiting to see' if a counterclaim presents itself. What I see is someone trying to hold up the organisation of the village, gj dude. I was open to your distrust and arguments at first but this has gotten to a point of 'seriously why am I even bothering'.
If I was trying to milk the time I had, I would've milked last night for all it was worth. I'm out of patience now because it's D1 and I have mafia and have posted my role PM and nobody has stepped up. Apparently you think we should wait indefinitely 'cause you never know, a CC might just pop up.
oh of course israel dies
fucking antisemites
fucking antisemites
hi i'm not czech pls leave me out of this
on the contrary, a certain mafioso feels threatened by my presence. in his/her words: 'this town ain't big enough for two incredibly good-looking people'
Predictable/10.
Daenym: Can you see why I didn't bother posting who it is? Though ofc you will use this as a way of discrediting me until N2 when it's proven I'm right and you just look scummier by the minute.
JFC you people. I'm fine with healthy distrust but some of the arguments I've heard border on the ridiculous.
On with the billyroll. It's tradition, y'know.
Yeah, I didn't really expect my post to be that much of a tl;dr. I'm already pretty long-winded and I tend to ramble (a lot) when I'm sleepy. But I'd rather post up my suspicions sooner rather than later.
I'm not trying to halt this lynch at all. In fact, I'm all for it. If you're Inspector, it's legit, if you're Mafia it's probably also legit. So it's a win/probably win situation for the Village.
That said, I don't particularly see the harm in having info that is seemingly useless posted up. I can't see the connection between a role's age and alignment yet, but I think that trusting in the game design to not have completely superfluous info is fair.
The multi-user Vigilante supports this, in my opinion. It requires a fairly public declaration of "Everyone use Street Justice on <Alias>" to work, assuming I'm reading it correctly. Unless you've got 50%+ of players already working with you, in which case go for it.
And you were never open to my distrust and arguments.
Also, for the (third?) time, I agree that everyone should get busy voting for Czech Republic.
I'm not sure what your concern is with Billy saying he's not Czech. Obviously that's going to happen. But that's all he's able to do.
I'm not trying to halt this lynch at all. In fact, I'm all for it. If you're Inspector, it's legit, if you're Mafia it's probably also legit. So it's a win/probably win situation for the Village.
I like how you brought that up, despite how much you thought it wasn't viable. I didn't bother making a big deal out of it in my post because I think there are plenty of other reasons to be skeptical of you.Jumpluff said:
That said, I don't particularly see the harm in having info that is seemingly useless posted up. I can't see the connection between a role's age and alignment yet, but I think that trusting in the game design to not have completely superfluous info is fair.
The multi-user Vigilante supports this, in my opinion. It requires a fairly public declaration of "Everyone use Street Justice on <Alias>" to work, assuming I'm reading it correctly. Unless you've got 50%+ of players already working with you, in which case go for it.
Weak argument at best. If your claims are real, then you shouldn't care about who you "sell out" or not.Jumpluff said:
That was a joke. Since I assume hitting Czech Rep. was largely a rand.Jumpliff said:
Short of giving you my name and publicly declaring what my mini-ability is, I can't see anything else in my role PM that would allow me to clean myself. If you have a more solid way to do that (besides the obvious of giving you the full PM and my alias) then I'm all ears.Jumpluff said:
Only if they're coming out to discredit you. And honestly, I think they can probably hold off until after the lynch of Czech Rep. Again, I'm in agreement that it's a good lynch choice.Jumpluff said:
One point you're failing to include is that, unlike previous Big games, this one doesn't have the danger of multiple factions going after the Village every night (if the rules are to be trusted fully). That means that the Village has slightly more time to properly organize than in any previous game. There's still the chance of a Wolf or anything else, of course, but, based on information provided, that's what we have to assume.Jumpluff said:
And you were never open to my distrust and arguments.
Indefinitely? Not so much. But waiting until your claims are a bit more substantiated? I'm for that.Jumpluff said:
Also, for the (third?) time, I agree that everyone should get busy voting for Czech Republic.
@Daenym, this is Smogon mafia. Not scumhunt.com or psychologicalmafiaduels.net. We need better methods for finding bad guys than rambling back and forth for 3 weeks and then randlynching, and we've always been given them. You're unnecessarily cluttering the thread with bullcrap and Captain Obvious speeches that don't get us anywhere.
I can personally vouch for jumpluff's claim and I urge everyone to contact either her or me with your information. We pool it together so it doesn't really matter who you contact. We're both nice people and we'll even talk to mafia because we love it when you try to false claim and end up giving us information in the process. :)
I can personally vouch for jumpluff's claim and I urge everyone to contact either her or me with your information. We pool it together so it doesn't really matter who you contact. We're both nice people and we'll even talk to mafia because we love it when you try to false claim and end up giving us information in the process. :)
Hi, since Thorns died, somebody must have the Diamond. I recommend the Diamond person hit me up, as I may be able and willing to help you survive. And if you're willing to help me, there won't be many nights left to survive itg.
PPS: Townies at large... Feel free to talk to Mekkah if you hate Australians or something.
PPS: Townies at large... Feel free to talk to Mekkah if you hate Australians or something.
Why should I talk to Mekkah
The only thing worse than Australians is Netherlandians
The only thing worse than Australians is Netherlandians
