Resource 1v1 Resources

DEG

Is 1v1 a matchup and hax based metagame?
is a Smogon Media Contributor
#1
Approved by The Immortal
DEG-Yesterday at 8:43 PM
do I just post the thread when its ready on the forums
The Immortal-Yesterday at 8:46 PM
should be fine, ye

Welcome to the 1v1 Resources thread, this is a place to discuss Viability Rankings and develop more resources such as Speed Tiers, Sets Compendium and others for beginners to familiarize with the metagame when starting. Discussions are encouraged as it helps us create the most accurate representation of the metagame. Any post that doesn't contain resources talk and is aimed at metagame discussion should stay in the 1v1 Discussion Thread.

Index:
Viability Rankings
– Videos
– Speed Tiers
– Sets Viability Rankings [Coming Soon]
Sets Compendium
1v1 Room Resources [Placeholder for events]

 
Last edited:

DEG

Is 1v1 a matchup and hax based metagame?
is a Smogon Media Contributor
#3
This is the Viability Rankings of the 1v1 metagame, discussions are highly encouraged helping us attain the best Viability Rankings. However, there are criteria for posting, any post not following these criteria will be ignored or deleted.

Do:
- Post intelligently presenting various reasons why you think this Pokemon is ranked incorrectly.
Example: Charizard-Mega X is an amazing Pokemon in the 1v1 metagame due to different factors. Its typing in Dragon/Fire allows it resistance to a lot of types attack such as Electric and Grass. It has great bulk and offense allowing it to pull easily an amazing bulky offensive sets taking on pretty much a lot of threats.

- Present calcs, its sets and its impact on the metagame
Example: Mega Gyarados isn't only blessed by its typing in Water/Dark and ability Mold Breaker it also has a big movepool to abuse making you unable to figure out which sets its running. It may use a set composed of Dragon Dance and three attacks ranging from Crunch, Outrage, Earthquake, Waterfall and even Ice Fang with defensive investment or not, a Taunt set is also usable making it a great mind breaker.

Don't:
- Post one liners such as "Pheromosa has an outstanding attack so it should be ranked higher!!!"
- Attack other users opinion, example: "You don't know the metagame, how do you even see Mimikyu an A+ Pokemon???"

Things to keep in mind when deciding a Pokemon's rank:

- The Pokemon's versatility enters on a big scale in the deciding of its rank, the more unpredictable a Pokemon is, the more Pokemon it can break.

- The Pokemon's stats and capabilities. This Pokemon is able to pull an amazing offensive set or stall out effectively the opponent. This Pokemon takes bulky offense on another
level allowing it to easily sponge and deal insane damage.

- The Pokemon ability to be anti-metagame. This Pokemon's typing and ability makes it able to take on the most dominant Pokemon or typings in the metagame.

Well enough talking, those are the rankings:
S Rank
Gyarados-Mega
Kyurem-Black

A+ Rank
Charizard-Mega-X
Metagross-Mega
Tapu Koko
Tapu Lele


A Rank
Aggron-Mega
Charizard-Mega-Y
Dragonite
Lopunny-Mega
Magearna
Mawile-Mega
Mimikyu
Pinsir-Mega


A- Rank
Aegislash
Landorus-Therian
Magnezone
Porygon-Z
Snorlax
Slowbro-Mega
Venusaur-Mega
Zygarde-Complete


B+ Rank
Altaria-Mega
Blaziken
Donphan
Garchomp
Genesect
Golem
Greninja
Heracross-Mega
Meloetta
Naganadel
Primarina
Tapu Fini


B Rank
Blastoise-Mega
Chansey
Ferrothorn
Gardevoir-Mega
Heatran
Jirachi
Jumpluff
Kartana
Sableye-Mega
Sawk
Swampert-Mega
Tyranitar-Mega


B- Rank
Blissey
Buzzwole
Carracosta
Celesteela
Crustle
Diancie-Mega
Durant
Gengar-Mega
Hoopa-Unbound
Latios
Mew
Pheromoa
Terrakion
Togekiss
Zygarde-10%


C+ Rank
Archeops
Avalugg
Gallade-Mega
Landorus
Lucario-Mega
Marowak-Alola
Medicham-Mega
Tapu Bulu
Umbreon
Victini
Volcarona
Whimsicott

C Rank
Blacephalon
Excadrill
Hitmonlee
Infernape
Keldeo
Kommo-o
Latias-Mega
Ninetales-Alola
Pidgeot-Mega
Relicanth
Stakataka
Thundurus-Therian


C- Rank
Abomasnow-Mega
Barbaracle
Camerupt-Mega
Manectric-Mega
Nihilego
Pyukumuku
Sceptile-Mega
Zygarde


D Rank
Alakazam-Mega
Aron
Azumarill
Clefable
Dusclops
Necrozma
Porygon2
Quagsire
Salazzle
Scizor-Mega
Slaking
Smeargle
Stunfisk
Vivillon

Do not use
Ditto
Magnemite
Shedinja
 
Last edited:

DEG

Is 1v1 a matchup and hax based metagame?
is a Smogon Media Contributor
#4
Done by lost heros

1v1 Speed Tiers
One very important but often overlooked component of 1v1 is getting the right speed EVs on your pokemon so they outspeed certain common threats, which can be the difference between getting off two hits and winning and getting off one hit and losing.

How this list is sorted:
- Spreads and Choice Scarf items used at least 6% of the time are taken into account for.
- Boosting moves, and Choice Scarves are accounted for separately.
- Since IVs are not implemented into the usage stats, 0 Spe IVs were done manually, and even then, only on standard sets.
- Since this list uses usage stats, it gives a far more accurate representation of what to prepare for on the ladder rather than a tournament, including the most common speed creeps.
- The same pokemon was not included twice if it had two spreads within +-10 of eachother. For example, if there were a pokemon with 206 Spe on one spread and 207 Spe on a less popular one, the 206 Spe one was used in this.
46: Bulky Pyukumuku
76: Bulky Sableye-Mega
86: Bulky Slowbro-Mega
92: Bulky Avalugg
94: Bulky Aggron-Mega
96: Bulky Slowbro-Mega
126: Bulky Golem
126: Bulky Golem-Alola
136: Bulky Azumarill
136: Bulky Chansey
136: Bulky Diancie
136: Bulky Donphan
140: Bulky Aegislash
146: Bulky Machamp
156: Bulky Aegislash
156: Bulky Primarina
156: Bulky Bewear
158: Bulky Celesteela
166: Bulky Umbreon
166: Bulky Magearna
166: Bulky Magnezone
166: Bulky Sylveon
176: Bulky Volcanion
186: Bulky Tapu Bulu
186: Bulky Heracross-Mega
186: Bulky Scizor-Mega
186: Fast Golem
190: Bulky Blastoise-Mega
190: Bulky Heatran
194: Bulky Necrozma
194: Bulky Buzzwole
196: Bulky Dragonite
196: Bulky Togekiss
196: Bulky Venusaur-Mega
198: Bulky Magnezone
206: Bulky Tapu Fini
207: Fast Crustle
216: Bulky Porygon-Z
216: Bulky Deoxys-Defense
216: Bulky Meloetta
219: Fast Minior-Core
220: Bulky Gyarados-Mega
226: Bulky Tapu Lele
237: Bulky Manaphy
244: Bulky Gliscor
256: Bulky Diancie-Mega
256: Bulky Metagross-Mega
259: Fast Dragonite
259: Fast Togekiss
259: Fast Gardevoir
261: Fast Gyarados-Mega
262: Fast Breloom
262: Fast Metagross
268: Bulky Whimsicott
269: Fast Sawk
273: Fast Smeargle
278: Fast Heatran
279: Fast Porygon-Z
284: Fast Togekiss
289: Bulky Talonflame
289: Fast Kyurem-Black
297: Fast Genesect
299: Fast Charizard-Mega-X
299: Fast Gardevoir-Mega
306: Fast Deoxys-Defense
306: Fast Meloetta
306: Fast Porygon-Z
306: Fast Pre-Mega Lucario
317: Fast Kyurem-Black
326: Fast Genesect
326: Fast Mimikyu
328: Fast Charizard-Mega-X
328: Fast Charizard-Mega-Y
328: Fast Jirachi
328: Fast Victini
331: Fast Landorus
333: Fast Garchomp
335: Fast Nihilego
339: Fast Pinsir-Mega
339: Fast Minior-Core
343: Fast Greninja
346: Fast Keldeo
348: Fast Alolan-Ninetales
348: Fast Kartana
350: Fast Gallade-Mega
350: Fast Metagross-Mega
350: Fast Pre-Mega Gengar
351: Fast Talonflame
355: Fast Lucario-Mega
359: Fast Tapu Koko
377: Fast Greninja
386: Fast Talonflame
388: +1 Dragon Dance Dragonite
388: Scarf Togekiss
391: +1 Dragon Dance Gyarados-Mega
394: Fast Gengar-Mega
394: Fast Tapu Koko
403: Scarf Sawk
414: Shell Smash Crustle
417: Scarf Heatran
418: Scarf Porygon-Z
426: Scarf Togekiss
433: Scarf Kyurem-Black
433: Scarf Tapu Lele
438: Fast Alakazam-Mega
438: Shell Smash Minior-Meteor
441: Fast Pheromosa
445: Scarf Genesect
448: +1 Dragon Dance Charizard-Mega-X
459: Scarf Deoxys-Defense
459: Scarf Porygon-Z
475: Scarf Kartana
475: Scarf Kyurem-Black
489: Scarf Genesect
492: +1 Dragon Dance Charizard-Mega-X
492: Scarf Jirachi
492: Scarf Victini
496: Scarf Landorus
499: Scarf Garchomp
514: Scarf Greninja
522: Scarf Kartana
565: Scarf Greninja
678: +2 Shell Smash Minior-Core
 
Last edited:

DEG

Is 1v1 a matchup and hax based metagame?
is a Smogon Media Contributor
#6
1v1 Room Resources

1v1 Clash


1v1 Team Clash is a Team Tournament run in the 1v1 room. When somebody announces a 1v1 Team Clash tournament, two managers are selected. Whoever would like to manage may PM the host to be selected as a manager. One may be denied from managing if too many people are wanting to manage. The manager makes a team of four or five people, depending on the activity at the time of the tour. You must PM team managers expressing interest to join their team. Do not PM both managers unless one has denied you from their team!

Once these managers have gathered their teams, they must select from a pool that the host selects. The host may pick from any available 1v1 option. Some of these include SM 1v1, ORAS 1v1, AG 1v1, AAA 1v1, Sketchmons 1v1, BH 1v1, Monopoke, Monothreat, Monotype, and so on. The host will announce four or five of these, depending on the amount of players per team. The manager must then submit their lineup to the host of who is playing what tier. These people battle each other in the same format as the other team. Whoever wins more battles, wins.

Here's an example:

wishes is hosting a 1v1 Team Clash tournament. partys over and Dream Eater Gengar are team captains. wishes announces that the pool of available metagames are SM 1v1, ORAS 1v1, AG 1v1, AAA 1v1, and BH 1v1. partys over's team consists of himself, BaleBlaze, Uselesscrab, UnleashOurPassion, and Kentari. Dream Eater Gengar's team consists of himself, Quantum Tesseract, Charizard8888, Gross Sweep, and Iron Crusher. partys over sends wishes this lineup:

partys over – SM 1v1; BaleBlaze – ORAS 1v1; Uselesscrab – AG 1v1; UnleashOurPassion – AAA 1v1; Kentari – BH 1v1.

Meanwhile, Dream Eater Gengar's lineup is sent to wishes which is:

Dream Eater Gengar – SM 1v1; Quantum Tesseract – ORAS 1v1; Charizard8888 – AG 1v1; Gross Sweep – AAA 1v1; Iron Crusher – BH 1v1.

Then, Dream Eater Gengar would face partys over in SM 1v1; BaleBlaze would face Quantum Tesseract in ORAS 1v1; and so on. Whichever wins the most will win the tour! So if Dream Eater Gengar, Quantum Tesseract, and Charizard8888 all won, then Dream Eater Gengar's team would be 3-2, and would win the tournament.

Despite it being a "team" tournament, telling teammates what to do while they battle, or ghosting, is strictly forbidden. Harsh consequences will follow if it does happen.

Team Tournament

A Team Tour is exactly what it sounds like; a team tournament in the 1v1 room. Once someone announces that a Team Tour will take place, people who would like to manage will post that they would like to in the chat. The host will eventually pick two managers, and people might have to be denied from managing if there are too many people who want to manage. The manager's job is to create the team. In order to get on a team, you have to PM a manager letting them know you'd like to be on their team. Avoid PMing both managers unless one has already denied you from their team.

Once the managers have gathered enough players for their team, the tour will start. If you're on the team, you will possibly be invited to a private groupchat for the team. The host will randomly pick a random player from both team. These players will play in a format the host decides or randomly generates. This format may not be regular 1v1, as it could be another OM, gen, or just different way of playing 1v1. The host will also decide or randomly pick whether it's a best of 1, 3, 5, etc.

Once the players have finished battling, the loser is eliminated from their team. The tour goes on, and the host will generate two more players. It is worth noting that yes, there is a chance that players will play repeatedly if they haven't been eliminated. Once every single player has been eliminated from a team, that team has lost and the tournament is over.

Despite it being a "team" tournament, telling teammates what to do while they battle, or ghosting, is strictly forbidden. Harsh consequences will follow if it does happen.

Mono Poke

The host assigns a random Pokemon using !randpoke and the players are limited to only that Pokemon. They should only use it and come up with the best counter set to win!

Random Poke
The host assigns a Random Pokemon to each user by using !randpoke privately and the players can only use that Pokemon in the tournament which leads to fun matchups. It can also be played with 3 Pokemon!


 
Last edited:
#8
When bae is C- in viability rankings.

Looks alright, I'll post my initial thoughts now and go in depth more at a later time. CharY really shouldn't be considered equal to viability in CharX. X can run a speedy offense set with Dual STAB SubDance, a defensive set with Dual STAB SubDance, SubWisp while also having much more options for when to mega thanks to its ability to change its typing. CharY, however, has a much weaker defensive set and overall weaker STABs and tends to run dual Fire STAB to beat stall Pokémon. Both definitely piggyback on each other for unpredictability, but overall CharY is weaker.

PZ and probably Greninja should be S- rather than A+. Both Specs and Scarf sets are completely unchanged for both and TrickChoice is still great. PZ can also run bulky Z-Conversion sets and Greninja can run Waterium Z Sets too. I'll be trying out a Bulky Greninja set to abuse the slightly buffed water shuriken I doubt it'll be great but I'll keep you updated.

Venusaur-Mega should also be B+/A-. It's incredibly bulky and powerful and can stand most attackers with access to Leech Seed, Synthesis, Charm, Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb, and Protect.

I'd probably drop Mimikyu to A-/B+ too, because even though it has access to Swords Dance, Ghost Z/Fairy Z, and Shadow Sneak, it's too slow and not bulky enough to really abuse it. Its high usage was pretty obviously from new toy syndrome rather than outstanding power.
 
#9
RESOURCE THREAD LETS GO

We're clearly at a pretty good starting point, but here are the changes I'd like to nominate.

S Rank should be split up. I know you're against this DEG but Char X is simply far better than Char Y in this meta. It has far more sets to run and simply beats more things, more reliably. Mega Gyarados is the single most important pokemon to build around right now, I don't think anyone disagrees that it's the best 1v1 pokemon overall. It should be ranked S+, Zard X should remain in S, and Zard Y should drop to S-.

Kyu-B should move to S- rank from A+. He's just as versatile (if not more so) as last generation, having viable sets in Scarf, Band, Specs, Haban Berry, Weakness Policy, and now Icium Z. He beats so many pokemon in the meta with his different sets, including but not limited to Gyarados (band), Charizard X and Y (Scarf), standard Porygon (Scarf), standard Crustle, Dragonite, Greninja, Mimikyu, Garchomp, and anything that relies on a defensive ability like Sturdy. Kyurem-Black is a force to be reckoned with this generation, and he absolutely defines the metagame.

Pory-Z should remain A+ Rank since he lost his best set (Custap) but still has options in Z-Conversion, Scarf, and Specs sets.

Magearna should move up a rank, from A to A+. It's basically the Mega Mawile of this generation, acting as a check for Gyarados and a counter for most Dragons and non-fire type special attackers. Of course, it's weak to fire and ground like Mawile is, but with a Specs boost or a Air Balloon type immunity, it's got the offensive firepower and defensive stats to take out a wide range of threats.

Dragonite should move down a rank, from A to A-. While extremely strong on paper, even a +1 Devastating Drake isn't going to damage all the fairy types wandering the tier, and Multiscale does nothing to stop Mold Breaker and Terravolt from ripping Dragonite apart. While Dnite excels low on the ladder, he runs into serious issues once people start using more and more of his checks, which all happen to be extremely good pokemon on their own. The last argument against Dragonite is that his coverage is generally very weak. Sure, DDrake hits hard, but Iron Head isn't even a guaranteed KO onto Tapu Lele, and Extremespeed is only good for cleaning up Sturdy pokemon. Earthquake and Fire Punch can do damage vs 4x weakness pokemon, but in general just aren't going to be used above DDrake. In this sense, Dragonite is a one-trick pony.

Metagross should move up to A ranking. He is extremely versatile, able to run bulky or fast, with move options in Meteor Mash, Bullet Punch, Zen Headbutt, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Earthquake, Grass Knot, and Substitute. He can EV to tank a +1 M-Gyarados Crunch and KO with two Thunder Punches, or he can EV to outspeed Zard and sub up on Flare Blitzes, Blast Burns, or Fire Blasts then fire off an Earthquake or Zen Headbutt to finish off his opponent. Metagross also performs very well against Sturdy pokemon thanks to his priority and fast frail attackers thanks to his natural bulk and amazing defensive steel typing.

Donphan's gotta go up. B+ is way too low for arguably the best user of Rockium Z and arguably the best Sturdy pokemon in the meta. In my eyes, he's on par with Crustle since both pokemon have many of the same checks and counters, but beat a lot of the same things. Crustle uses stat boosting to accomplish this whereas Donphan uses priority alongside his already powerful hits and his Counter/Endeavor. I don't think Crustle is too high, but Donphan should be at least moved up into the A rankings since these two pokemon are so nicely comparable and relatively equal.

Whimsicott and Jumpluff should NOT be so far apart. After the Prankster nerf, Jumpluff is as good if not better than Whims since while Whims can no longer threaten Dark types at all, Jumpluff is beating both Charizards, non-taunt Mega Gyara, Crustle, Donphan, non-scarf Kyu-B, Dragonite, Magearna, etc. If Jumpluff outspeeds you, it beats you (exceptions apply). If Whimsicott can tank a hit, it beats you (exceptions apply). Jumpluff outspeeds around the same number of threats as Whims can tank a hit from, therefore they should be ranked closer together, probably around B-.

That's all for now. I'll definitely contribute more later as we see changes start to come in.
 
#10
Awesome rankings! Thanks for all the hard work Dream Eater Gengar.

I don't want to quibble over whether Gyarados is S or S+. Honestly, I don't think it matters. I would like to point out some things I think are mistakes in the ranking. I think these pokemon are a letter grade off where they should be.

B- Gengar-Mega
Nihilego
Landorus
Rhyperior

I strongly disagree with all of these placements. Mega-Gengar is a gimmick that only works ~40% of the time. It is essentially an entire pokemon slot devoted to a OHKO move. Nihilego is extremely frail and its typing is poor. I've never seen someone succeed with this. It literally needs Max HP 36 defense EVs to not get OHKO'd by 0 atck Mega-Charizard-X's Outrage. Landorus and Rhyperior were left behind by this gen. I have not seen one person succeeding with these pokemon. Landorus is too slow and too frail to do well. It's niche last gen was beating Charizard 100%, which it will do less and less as more people run Substitute. Additionally a lot of new pokemon beat it, like Tapu Lele, Celesteela, and Mimikyu. Rhyperior is just outclassed by Donphan, Golem, and Crustle.

C plus- Primarina
C minus- Umbreon

Both my and lost heros' baes are a lot better than their placing. Z-Charm is really good and makes a huge difference from last gen. Z-Charm can't be taunted or encored and Umbreon can beat some Special Attackers just by being invested in SpDef and using Foul Play or Toxic. Primarina beats both Charizards, Gyarados, Genesect, Metagross, Porygon-Z, Aegislash, and more. That's more than Kartana, which is ranked A minus, can say.
 
#11
Awesome rankings! Thanks for all the hard work Dream Eater Gengar.

I don't want to quibble over whether Gyarados is S or S+. Honestly, I don't think it matters. I would like to point out some things I think are mistakes in the ranking. I think these pokemon are a letter grade off where they should be.

B- Gengar-Mega
Nihilego
Landorus
Rhyperior

I strongly disagree with all of these placements. Mega-Gengar is a gimmick that only works ~40% of the time. It is essentially an entire pokemon slot devoted to a OHKO move. Nihilego is extremely frail and its typing is poor. I've never seen someone succeed with this. It literally needs Max HP 36 defense EVs to not get OHKO'd by 0 atck Mega-Charizard-X's Outrage. Landorus and Rhyperior were left behind by this gen. I have not seen one person succeeding with these pokemon. Landorus is too slow and too frail to do well. It's niche last gen was beating Charizard 100%, which it will do less and less as more people run Substitute. Additionally a lot of new pokemon beat it, like Tapu Lele, Celesteela, and Mimikyu. Rhyperior is just outclassed by Donphan, Golem, and Crustle.

C plus- Primarina
C minus- Umbreon

Both my and lost heros' baes are a lot better than their placing. Z-Charm is really good and makes a huge difference from last gen. Z-Charm can't be taunted or encored and Umbreon can beat some Special Attackers just by being invested in SpDef and using Foul Play or Toxic. Primarina beats both Charizards, Gyarados, Genesect, Metagross, Porygon-Z, Aegislash, and more. That's more than Kartana, which is ranked A minus, can say.
While I agree with your on Primarina and Umbreon, I have to disagree with your analysis of Mega Gengar. It's not a gimmick that only works 40% of the time, it's a relatively versatile pokemon that can run a few different sets and OHKO anything it hits super-effectively. Sure, Hypnosis doesn't have the greatest accuracy but Mega Gengar isn't 100% dependent on landing it. My personal favorite set doesn't even use Hypnosis, but rather uses Counter and Will-O to beat physical threats like Gyarados, Char X, Kyu-B, etc. LINK

I don't think you give Landorus enough credit either. It does beat both Charizards, and even if they run Sub the matchup is still in Lando's favor. It also beats Tapu Koko, Magearna, Slowbro, Chomp, Niheligo, and non-Ice Punch Megagross, and has a favorable matchup against Crustle, Venusaur, and Togekiss.
 
#12
Venusaur-Mega should also be B+/A-. It's incredibly bulky and powerful and can stand most attackers with access to Leech Seed, Synthesis, Charm, Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb, and Protect.

I'd probably drop Mimikyu to A-/B+ too, because even though it has access to Swords Dance, Ghost Z/Fairy Z, and Shadow Sneak, it's too slow and not bulky enough to really abuse it. Its high usage was pretty obviously from new toy syndrome rather than outstanding power.
100% agree. Charm makes Mega-Venusaur much better. Plus, it can run the special attacking set. Mimikyu wishes it could run both Z-moves at the same time. Shadow Claw is such a weak move.

Dragonite should move down a rank, from A to A-. While extremely strong on paper, even a +1 Devastating Drake isn't going to damage all the fairy types wandering the tier, and Multiscale does nothing to stop Mold Breaker and Terravolt from ripping Dragonite apart. While Dnite excels low on the ladder, he runs into serious issues once people start using more and more of his checks, which all happen to be extremely good pokemon on their own. The last argument against Dragonite is that his coverage is generally very weak. Sure, DDrake hits hard, but Iron Head isn't even a guaranteed KO onto Tapu Lele, and Extremespeed is only good for cleaning up Sturdy pokemon. Earthquake and Fire Punch can do damage vs 4x weakness pokemon, but in general just aren't going to be used above DDrake. In this sense, Dragonite is a one-trick pony.
I agree with it all. Glad you finally came around on Dragonite.

Whimsicott and Jumpluff should NOT be so far apart. After the Prankster nerf, Jumpluff is as good if not better than Whims since while Whims can no longer threaten Dark types at all, Jumpluff is beating both Charizards, non-taunt Mega Gyara, Crustle, Donphan, non-scarf Kyu-B, Dragonite, Magearna, etc. If Jumpluff outspeeds you, it beats you (exceptions apply). If Whimsicott can tank a hit, it beats you (exceptions apply). Jumpluff outspeeds around the same number of threats as Whims can tank a hit from, therefore they should be ranked closer together, probably around B-.
100% agree. Wherever Whimsicott is ranked, Jumpluff should be ranked there.

My personal favorite set doesn't even use Hypnosis, but rather uses Counter and Will-O to beat physical threats like Gyarados, Char X, Kyu-B, etc. LINK
Bro, that set is a 50/50 vs all those pokemon, once someone knows that's the set you're running. Kyurem-Black can just run Earth Power if it wants to, also. So you can run the 50/50 physical set or the 40/60 Hypnosis/Hex set. I honestly don't see how either of those sets make it that good.

I don't think you give Landorus enough credit either. It does beat both Charizards, and even if they run Sub the matchup is still in Lando's favor. It also beats Tapu Koko, Magearna, Slowbro, Chomp, Niheligo, and non-Ice Punch Megagross, and has a favorable matchup against Crustle, Venusaur, and Togekiss.
I'd say Tapu Koko and Nihilego are irrelevant, because any Ground-type beats them. Landorus-I is actually just about the only Ground-type that will lose to those two if they're running HP Ice. Landorus doesn't beat Slowbro. Doesn't beat Garchomp if Garchomp is banded or Landorus isn't running HP Ice. Sludge Wave is 50/50 to KO Togekiss, and Air Slash has a 96.1% chance to 2HKO. I agree on the other ones, though.

It's not that I think Landorus and Mega-Gengar are terrible, I just think they're not as good as Jirachi and are more on the level of Keldeo.

While I agree with your on Primarina and Umbreon
Do we agree on these and Rhyperior and Nihilego, at least? I'd run Aron or Smeargle over Nihilego, honestly. I think that pokemon is terrible.
 
#13
I'd say Tapu Koko and Nihilego are irrelevant, because any Ground-type beats them. Landorus-I is actually just about the only Ground-type that will lose to those two if they're running HP Ice. Landorus doesn't beat Slowbro. Doesn't beat Garchomp if Garchomp is banded or Landorus isn't running HP Ice. Sludge Wave is 50/50 to KO Togekiss, and Air Slash has a 96.1% chance to 2HKO. I agree on the other ones, though.

It's not that I think Landorus and Mega-Gengar are terrible, I just think they're not as good as Jirachi and are more on the level of Keldeo.



Do we agree on these and Rhyperior and Nihilego, at least? I'd run Aron or Smeargle over Nihilego, honestly. I think that pokemon is terrible.
Luckily, no Tapu Koko ever run HP Ice, since it's useless except for Lando. And Landorus very much beats Slowbro:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Slowbro-Mega: 208-246 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Slowbro-Mega Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 264-312 (82.7 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You are correct about Lando 50/50ing Togekiss:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 286-338 (91.9 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
But if you're running Hasty Lando (which you ought to be) Air Slash is only 9% 2HKO
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 139-165 (43.5 - 51.7%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO
unless I'm wrong about standard Togekiss running Timid instead of Modest.

I could see Landorus dropping a tier to B-, but probably no further.

As for Rhyperior, I agree that he's not the monster he was last gen (RIP Custap Berry) and he shouldn't be ranked over Golem.

I never used Nihilego much, but he looks like such a nice Charizard counter, and he's got the added bonus of nailing Whimsicott, Porygon-Z, and Tapu Koko:
252+ SpA Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nihilego: 316-373 (88 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Other than those, he does seem to lose to a lot of top threats so I wouldn't argue with a drop, probably to C+.
 
#14
But if you're running Hasty Lando (which you ought to be) Air Slash is only 9% 2HKO
I'm a scrub and run Rash because that's what the Team Builder defaults to. I'll concede that Landorus is perhaps better than I thought. It might be better than Avalugg, at least.

And Landorus very much beats Slowbro:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Slowbro-Mega: 208-246 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Slowbro-Mega Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 264-312 (82.7 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I'll just point out: Your Slowbro doesn't have a boosting nature. Amnesia and Calm Mind are both moves that Slowbro learns.

Pokemon that should get ranked:

Conkeldurr can run both Life Orb and Assault Vest sets. It has a great movepool. It's similar to Sawk.

Manaphy can still run its Iron Defense, Rest, Rain Dance set. Obviously, no Custap sucks.

Snorlax can run Snorlaxium-Z or a 50% heal berry with Curse, Rest, Sleep Talk, Crunch, Earthquake, etc. These are both quite usable sets.

Wishiwashi can run Specs to some success. It doesn't change to small form until the end of the turn it gets low, so if it lives, it will be able to attack with its 140 base special attack.

I'd say they're all a solid C. Perhaps, C plus in Conkeldurr's case.


What do Mega-Sableye and Pheramosa even do? I don't think I've seen Mega-Sableye win a single game. And I've played probably double the amount of games of anyone else this gen. I've seen more post-nerf Pyumukus, Toxapex, and Shuckles win.
 
#15
I'm a scrub and run Rash because that's what the Team Builder defaults to. I'll concede that Landorus is perhaps better than I thought. It might be better than Avalugg, at least.


I'll just point out: Your Slowbro doesn't have a boosting nature. Amnesia and Calm Mind are both moves that Slowbro learns.

Pokemon that should get ranked:

Conkeldurr can run both Life Orb and Assault Vest sets. It has a great movepool. It's similar to Sawk.

Manaphy can still run its Iron Defense, Rest, Rain Dance set. Obviously, no Custap sucks.

Snorlax can run Snorlaxium-Z or a 50% heal berry with Curse, Rest, Sleep Talk, Crunch, Earthquake, etc. These are both quite usable sets.

Wishiwashi can run Specs to some success. It doesn't change to small form until the end of the turn it gets low, so if it lives, it will be able to attack with its 140 base special attack.

I'd say they're all a solid C. Perhaps, C plus in Conkeldurr's case.


What do Mega-Sableye and Pheramosa even do? I don't think I've seen Mega-Sableye win a single game. And I've played probably double the amount of games of anyone else this gen. I've seen more post-nerf Pyumukus, Toxapex, and Shuckles win.
Slowbro almost always runs Bold, sometimes Calm. Defense is much more important to Mega Bro than offense, and few turn down the chance to boost his enormous base 180 defense stat. While Slowbro *can* boost his special defense, it's never really enough to block a 2HKO unless Bro is fully specially defensive, *and* doesn't realize that Scald isn't an OHKO. In the vast majority of cases, Slowbro will have significant Defensive investment and can't tank two Earth Powers even with a SpD boosting move.

Agree on Conkeldurr, Manaphy, and Snorlax. They're all used a good amount and can hold their own vs top tier pokemon. I've never seen Wishiwashi be super successful, but I haven't used it myself so I can't make a judgement yet.

Mega Sableye can still utilize his Metal Burst + Sucker Punch combo to its full potential, though he no longer has his priority + Mbounce turn one for Will-O, which also got nerfed. He still works as a great glue pokemon who can come in and have a good shot at taking down a wide variety of threats. He also has a Calm Mind set which I don't think is *as* good, but can still work, especially vs stallmons.

Pheromosa hits hard, once. Band and special Fightium Z are the two sets I think have the best potential. 190 base power coming off 137 base spA with STAB is nothing to turn your head at, and Phero outpaces the vast majority of the meta thanks to it's insane 151 speed. Of course, Phero has the obvious downside of being frail as a stack of tissues, but it takes 1v1's hard-and-fast model and takes it to the extreme. It's not the best pokemon in the tier, but it has its place.
 
#16
Slowbro almost always runs Bold, sometimes Calm. Defense is much more important to Mega Bro than offense, and few turn down the chance to boost his enormous base 180 defense stat. While Slowbro *can* boost his special defense, it's never really enough to block a 2HKO unless Bro is fully specially defensive, *and* doesn't realize that Scald isn't an OHKO. In the vast majority of cases, Slowbro will have significant Defensive investment and can't tank two Earth Powers even with a SpD boosting move.

Agree on Conkeldurr, Manaphy, and Snorlax. They're all used a good amount and can hold their own vs top tier pokemon. I've never seen Wishiwashi be super successful, but I haven't used it myself so I can't make a judgement yet.

Mega Sableye can still utilize his Metal Burst + Sucker Punch combo to its full potential, though he no longer has his priority + Mbounce turn one for Will-O, which also got nerfed. He still works as a great glue pokemon who can come in and have a good shot at taking down a wide variety of threats. He also has a Calm Mind set which I don't think is *as* good, but can still work, especially vs stallmons.

Pheromosa hits hard, once. Band and special Fightium Z are the two sets I think have the best potential. 190 base power coming off 137 base spA with STAB is nothing to turn your head at, and Phero outpaces the vast majority of the meta thanks to it's insane 151 speed. Of course, Phero has the obvious downside of being frail as a stack of tissues, but it takes 1v1's hard-and-fast model and takes it to the extreme. It's not the best pokemon in the tier, but it has its place.
Maybe I'm the only one who runs 252+ SpDef Slowbro.

After doing some research on the ladder, Mega-Sableye is a solid C. You're right. I wasn't giving it its due because I hadn't seen anyone use it.

After doing some more ladder research, I don't know what you guys see in Pheromosa. It's so frail, its typing is poor, its movepool is worse than poor, its matchups are poor. I don't know what you're trying to beat with it. It strikes me as a Mega-Alakazam type pokemon. Something that is used in the low ladder, but has no hope higher up. I just compare it to Heatran, which can run multiple very effective sets and I can't justify putting them in the same rank.

I'm going to keep going against the grain and say Kartana isn't that great. I would compare it to Victini. They both have the same role. I'm not sure what makes Kartana better than Victini other than perhaps being a Steel type. I'd be interested in why it is ranked so much higher.

Also, unless someone has some super secret sets that I've never seen or heard of, Necrozma and Tapu Bulu are C-ish. Comparing Tapu Lele and Necrozma makes you realize how outclassed it is. 0 Spa Z-Psychic from Tapu Lele does about the same damage as 252+ Spa Z-Prismatic Laser from Necrozma. I've tried Stored Power, Dual Screens, Stall, Specs, all kinds of sets. None of them work all that well. I just wanted to use Tapu Lele instead.

Tapu Bulu is Grass type, has no Fairy STAB, has an ability that hinders it most of the time, and is physical. Tapu Fini, which is Water type, has Fairy STAB, has a somewhat useful ability, is special, but is ranked the same.
 
Last edited:

DEG

Is 1v1 a matchup and hax based metagame?
is a Smogon Media Contributor
#17
Thanks for the input guys! I have modified the Viability Rankings taking account both arguments, and these are the changes:

Charizard-Mega-Y: From S to A+
Dragonite: From A to A-
Magearna: From A to A+
Mimikyu: From A to A-
Metagross-Mega: From A- to A
Kartana: From A- to B
Donphan: From B+ to A-
Whimsicott: From B+ to A-
Venusaur-Mega: From B to A-
Nihilego: From B to B-
Rhyperior: From B to B-
Tapu Fini: From B- to B
Primarina: From C to B
Jumpluff From C to B

I noticed I made some mistakes deciding some ranks, in particular Jumpluff and Primarina. Both are okay Pokemon that threatens others and shouldn't of have been ranked that far low. Concerning Mega Charizard Y, I first put it into S because it's back to back with Zard X, they both share the same surprise factor and have a great offensive typing but as the gen progressed, Zard Y didn't seem as threatening as it was and since S ranks showcase the best and its clearly who they are I will not do sub-ranks yet and put only Zard X and Mega Dos.


Also, thanks to Elo Bandit video contributions, we will now have an extra section from last gen which is Resources Video that will contain variety of discussion around the Viability Rankings and some Pokemon analyses but anything else not being part of giving out resources won't be posted. I have also posted in the original post which resources we're going to have soon. As soon as we're done with the most important ones we will pass by and experience OMs 1v1 and build resources to them.

Keep up the great discussion guys!
 
Last edited:
#19
A couple nominations for some niche pokemon I've been having a lot of success with:

Barbaracle Unranked -> B-/C+ This beast is criminally underrated. It can beat both of the S rank mons consistently and also takes on the likes of scarf Kyu-B, Pory-Z and Mega Pinsir. I laddered to #1 with it, so it has to have some niche, right?
Barbaracle @ Rockium Z
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 116 HP / 208 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Superpower
- Stone Edge
- Dual Chop/Razor Shell

252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 226-267 (71.9 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
208+ Atk Barbaracle Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 488-576 (164.3 - 193.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Earthquake vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 242-286 (77 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 208+ Atk Tough Claws Barbaracle Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 430-506 (109.1 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
[+2 Barbaracle Speed=436, +1 Jolly MGyara Speed=430]

252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 260-308 (82.8 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 208+ Atk Barbaracle Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 800-944 (204.6 - 241.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

208+ Atk Tough Claws Barbaracle Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 416-490 (111.2 - 131%) -- guaranteed OHKO
[Barbaracle Speed=218, Porygon-Z Speed=216]

252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 230-272 (73.2 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
208+ Atk Tough Claws Barbaracle Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 416-490 (133.7 - 157.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Infernape Unranked -> C- I don't feel too strongly about this, but I feel it has at least some niche in the meta (I'm using mixed scarf). It nails some common pokemon like Metagross, Magearna, Porygon-Z and Zard-Y nicely, but is largely outclassed by other fires. What makes it somewhat useful is it's insane speed tier.
Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Naive Nature
- Blast Burn
- Grass Knot
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge


Type: Null Unranked -> C This thing is fat. Like, really fat. The calcs speak for themselves.
Type: Null @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Atk / 32 Def / 32 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Giga Impact
- Double Hit
- Rock Slide

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Eviolite Type: Null: 109-130 (27.6 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+3 196+ Atk Type: Null Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 477-562 (144.1 - 169.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Blast Burn vs. 252 HP / 32 SpD Eviolite Type: Null in Sun: 288-339 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ Atk Type: Null Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 340-404 (114.4 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Eviolite Type: Null: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 196+ Atk Type: Null Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 412-486 (105.3 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 32 SpD Eviolite Type: Null: 226-268 (57.3 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 196+ Atk Type: Null Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 552-651 (177.4 - 209.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 32 SpD Eviolite Type: Null: 154-183 (39 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 196+ Atk Type: Null Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 568-670 (199.2 - 235%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk [Continental Crush+Earthquake+Ice Shard] vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Eviolite Type: Null: 296-349 (75.1 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 196+ Atk Type: Null [Double Hit+Giga Impact] vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 517-609 (134.6 - 158.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psychic vs. 252 HP / 32 SpD Eviolite Type: Null: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 196+ Atk Type: Null Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 510-600 (149.5 - 175.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Togedemaru Unranked -> C On the surface, Togedemaru looks outclassed by Magnezone, but Reversal gives it an edge. Niche, but effective. I've encountered several players even on the mid-ladder that auto-lose to it.
Togedemaru @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Zing Zap
- Reversal
- Nuzzle
- Spiky Shield


Working on getting some replays atm, will add soon.
 
Last edited:
#20
A couple nominations for some niche pokemon I've been having a lot of success with:

Barbaracle Unranked -> B-/C+ This beast is criminally underrated. It can beat both of the S rank mons consistently and also takes on the likes of scarf Kyu-B, Pory-Z and Mega Pinsir. I laddered to #1 with it, so it has to have some niche, right?
Barbaracle @ Rockium Z
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 116 HP / 208 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Superpower
- Stone Edge
- Dual Chop/Razor Shell

252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 226-267 (71.9 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
208+ Atk Barbaracle Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 488-576 (164.3 - 193.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Earthquake vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 242-286 (77 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 208+ Atk Tough Claws Barbaracle Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 430-506 (109.1 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
[+2 Barbaracle Speed=436, +1 Jolly MGyara Speed=430]

252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 260-308 (82.8 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 208+ Atk Barbaracle Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 800-944 (204.6 - 241.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

208+ Atk Tough Claws Barbaracle Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 416-490 (111.2 - 131%) -- guaranteed OHKO
[Barbaracle Speed=218, Porygon-Z Speed=216]

252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 230-272 (73.2 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
208+ Atk Tough Claws Barbaracle Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 416-490 (133.7 - 157.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Infernape Unranked -> C- I don't feel too strongly about this, but I feel it has at least some niche in the meta (I'm using mixed scarf). It nails some common pokemon like Metagross, Magearna, Porygon-Z and Zard-Y nicely, but is largely outclassed by other fires. What makes it somewhat useful is it's insane speed tier.
Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Naive Nature
- Blast Burn
- Grass Knot
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge


Type: Null Unranked -> C This thing is fat. Like, really fat. The calcs speak for themselves.
Type: Null @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Atk / 32 Def / 32 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Giga Impact
- Double Hit
- Rock Slide

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Eviolite Type: Null: 109-130 (27.6 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+3 196+ Atk Type: Null Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 477-562 (144.1 - 169.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Blast Burn vs. 252 HP / 32 SpD Eviolite Type: Null in Sun: 288-339 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ Atk Type: Null Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 340-404 (114.4 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Eviolite Type: Null: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 196+ Atk Type: Null Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 412-486 (105.3 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 32 SpD Eviolite Type: Null: 226-268 (57.3 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 196+ Atk Type: Null Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 552-651 (177.4 - 209.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 32 SpD Eviolite Type: Null: 154-183 (39 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 196+ Atk Type: Null Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 568-670 (199.2 - 235%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk [Continental Crush+Earthquake+Ice Shard] vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Eviolite Type: Null: 296-349 (75.1 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 196+ Atk Type: Null [Double Hit+Giga Impact] vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 517-609 (134.6 - 158.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psychic vs. 252 HP / 32 SpD Eviolite Type: Null: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 196+ Atk Type: Null Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 510-600 (149.5 - 175.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Togedemaru Unranked -> C On the surface, Togedemaru looks outclassed by Magnezone, but Reversal gives it an edge. Niche, but effective. I've encountered several players even on the mid-ladder that auto-lose to it.
Togedemaru @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Zing Zap
- Reversal
- Nuzzle
- Spiky Shield


Working on getting some replays atm, will add soon.
I agree with everything except Barbaracle. I'd even advocate a little more strongly for Infernape. It can use multiple sets and has access to Fake Out, boosting moves, and a good typing. I think we should give Barbaracle time to breathe, since you're the only one who uses it. It might be as good as Mega-Blastoise, but it might just be the fact that you're good and used an unusual pokemon with two other good pokemon. I mean I got rank 3 or 4 with Salazzle, but I don't think that makes it good.

Double post, but thanks to lost heros we now have a speed tiers post. Suggestions for more speed tiers is now open, if we missed something.
I would suggest making the names slightly more detailed, like calling a Tapu Koko with 359 speed "Modest Fast Tapu Koko" and leaving 394 speed "Fast Tapu Koko". Just to differentiate a little better. Also, minimum speed Aegislash has 112 speed. I think it should be mentioned. It's relatively important, since most things slower than it beat it.

Umbreon should be moved up probably to around B. Z-Charm is great.
Tapu Koko and Crustle should be moved down, I think. They're too straightfoward and predictable.
 
Last edited:
#21
Hi so I have a few noms for the viability rankings. Ferrothorn should be somewhere in the B range, as its typing allows it to beat a lot of good stuff quite easily. You can mess around with the evs and item, which is nice, allowing you to customize it for your team.

Arcanine is another pokemon that is very customizable and one I happen to love. Intim is rly nice for a lot of physical attackers. Banded, AV, and Zmove are all great options for the item slot. For the moves, it has a lot of stuff. Flare blitz, espeed, cc, outrage, wild charge, crunch, and iron head are all rly nice. You can mess with the Evs as well. I can see it in B- or C+

Gastro would be cool ranked but idk its kinda setup fodder
 
Last edited:
#22
Hi so I have a few noms for the viability rankings. Ferrothorn should be somewhere in the B range, as its typing allows it to beat a lot of good stuff quite easily. You can mess around with the evs and nice, which is nice, allowing you to customize it for your team.

Arcanine is another pokemon that is very customizable and one I happen to love. Intim is rly nice for a lot of physical attackers. Banded, AV, and Zmove are all great options for the item slot. For the moves, it has a lot of stuff. Flare blitz, espeed, cc, outrage, wild charge, crunch, and iron head are all rly nice. You can mess with the Evs as well. I can see it in B- or C+

Gastro would be cool ranked but idk its kinda setup fodder
Seconded for both Ferro and Rk9. Ferro has a brutal Curse set with Leech and Gyro ball that can get past a lot of stuff you wouldn't expect it to, like Mega Sableye. Arcanine has some really nice stats and the movepool to back them up, and I'd also like to draw attention to its Burn Up/Snarl defensive special attacking set, which can remove its Water/Ground/Rock resistances *and* knock down an opponent's special attack stat while recovering health with Morning Sun / chip damage with Will-O.

I could see both mons ending up in the B or B- range.
 
#23
Hi so I have a few noms for the viability rankings. Ferrothorn should be somewhere in the B range, as its typing allows it to beat a lot of good stuff quite easily. You can mess around with the evs and nice, which is nice, allowing you to customize it for your team.

Arcanine is another pokemon that is very customizable and one I happen to love. Intim is rly nice for a lot of physical attackers. Banded, AV, and Zmove are all great options for the item slot. For the moves, it has a lot of stuff. Flare blitz, espeed, cc, outrage, wild charge, crunch, and iron head are all rly nice. You can mess with the Evs as well. I can see it in B- or C+

Gastro would be cool ranked but idk its kinda setup fodder
I agree with Gastrodon and Ferrothorn. Despite being set-up bait, Beesafree has found consistent success with it, even if no one else uses it that much. Ferrothorn is legit. It's quite customizable and has seen ladder success on a couple of different teams. I'd put it below Whimsicott and Jumpluff, in B-.

Disagree with Arcanine. Arcanine just doesn't have the tools to stall well. Fire is a bad defensive typing. It's very slow if you invest in bulk, letting it get hit super effectively before it can get rid of its Fire type with Burn Up. It's only defensive tools are Will-o-wisp and Snarl, which again it has trouble using before it gets hit because it is so slow when invested in bulk. Mega-Sableye learns Will-o-wisp and Snarl too, and isn't very high ranked. Offensively, it's outclassed really hard by Charizard X. Unless someone goes out and gets high rank with Arcanine, I wouldn't go over C, if only because C- is full of meme pokemon. I'd personally unrank a bunch of pokemon in C- and put pokemon like Arcanine, Smeargle, Buzzwole, Nihilego, Bewear, and Volcarona in there.

Greninja, Garchomp, Tapu Koko, and Crustle are all a little high in my estimation.

Crustle is so predictable. It can only viably run like 5 or 6 moves: Counter, Shell Smash, Rock Wrecker, Rock Blast, Earthquake, and maybe X-Scissor. It just has no chance against the pokemon it loses to, which is a lot worse than a lot of other pokemon can say. It just can make no adjustments to let it steal a win. It's completely inflexible. I wouldn't be averse to a drop all the way to A- or B+.

Similiar to Crustle, Tapu Koko has nearly no flexibility. The only meaningful choice in a Tapu Koko set is Charge or Nature's Madness and Thunder or Wild Charge. The sole coverage move I have ever seen successfully used on Tapu Koko is Brave Bird to more reliably beat Venusaur that don't have Sludge Bomb or expect Charge. It suffers real competition from Magnezone, which is less predictable and can beat Ground pokemon some of the time. The pokemon that beat Tapu Koko, like Charizard X and every Ground type in 1v1, beat it nearly all of the time, with little hope at all of pulling out a win. It's simply too predictable in team preview, and beats too few pokemon to be ranked so high. I'd argue for a drop all the way to B+.

Greninja has been sort of a victim of the gen 7 meta. The increased viability of Sturdy pokemon and the increased number of viable Fairy-Types has increased its number of bad matchups, while it gained very few good matchups. Water Shuriken kills literally only Golem reliably, so it's unviable as a move choice. While still strong, it's not on the level of Tapu Lele or Mega-Metagross. A- is where it belongs.

Garchomp didn't get hit as hard by the Rough Skin nerf as Pyumuku, but it sure didn't help. It's sort of a victim of the meta like Greninja also. It's forced more often into Choice Band because of Aegislash and Dragonite. Because of the Rough Skin nerf, it now has less of a chance vs Charizard X, which it used to almost always beat, although the matchup is still very Garchomp favored. However, the Gyarados matchup is much harder, as KOing Gyarados with Rough Skin now no longer counts as a win. More Charm and Fairies in the meta don't help Garchomp either. I think Garchomp could be dropped down to B+. It's more on the level of Chansey.

Edit: Hitmonlee ought to get ranked. It does very well vs many Sturdy pokemon, Charizard Y, Kyurem-Black (Scarf or not), and Porygon-Z(Scarf or not), as well as having a good shot against Gyarados and Charizard X. The fact that it can run Endure Reversal or just Fake Out + 3 attacks makes it somewhat unpredictable.
 
Last edited:

DEG

Is 1v1 a matchup and hax based metagame?
is a Smogon Media Contributor
#24
Viability Rankings changes:

From C- to Unranked.
From C- to Unranked.
From C- to Unranked.
From C- to Unranked.
From C to Unranked.
From C to C-
From C- to B-
From B- to C-
From B- to C-
From C to C-
From Unranked to B-
From Unranked to C
From A- to B+
From A+ to A
 
#25
A few nominations:
Deoxys-S: Unranked -> C+
Deoxys Speed can outspeed things as fast as ScarfChomp and cut the opponent's damage output to 1/3. Because of this, it's able to beat the majority of offensive pokemon in the tier. Even if you're not using my set, it's still an effective offensive mon, capable of outspeeding everything and dispatching the opponent with the proper coverage move. Also made it to top 5 using this :P
Deoxys-Speed @ Psychium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 176 HP / 120 SpA / 212 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Psychic
- Recover

120 SpA Deoxys-Speed [Shattered Psyche+Psychic] vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 352-415 (118.5 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
OR
252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. +1 156 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed through Reflect: 93-110 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
120 SpA Deoxys-Speed Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 120-142 (40.4 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. +1 156 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed in Sun through Light Screen: 126-148 (45 - 52.8%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Blast Burn vs. +1 156 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed in Sun through Light Screen: 171-202 (61 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Crustle Continental Crush (200 BP) vs. +1 156 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed through Reflect: 225-264 (80.3 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. +1 156 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed through Reflect: 96-113 (34.2 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Teravolt Kyurem-Black Draco Meteor vs. +1 156 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed through Light Screen: 120-142 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. +1 156 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed through Reflect: 159-188 (56.7 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. +1 156 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed through Reflect: 96-113 (34.2 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. +1 156 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed through Light Screen: 127-150 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Shadow Ball vs. +1 156 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed through Light Screen: 105-124 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. +1 156 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed through Light Screen: 202-238 (72.1 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Uproar vs. +1 156 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed through Light Screen: 121-143 (43.2 - 51%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO

Just to name a few...


Volcarona: Unranked -> C-
Volcarona has a niche. It's harder to describe than Deoxys. With some physical bulk investment, you're able to take some common hits like a scarf Kyurem Outrage and Mimikyu's hits after a burn. Then Quiver Dance up or use Firium-Z Overheat. Top 5 as well.
Volcarona @ Firium Z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 196 Def / 88 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Overheat
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance

252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Volcarona: 262-310 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 88 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-Black: 531-625 (135.8 - 159.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Teravolt Kyurem-Black Draco Meteor vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 211-250 (67.8 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 88 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 477-562 (121.9 - 143.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

88 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 516-608 (141.7 - 167%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Volcarona: 222-262 (71.3 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
88 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 536-632 (147.2 - 173.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 232-274 (74.5 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
88 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (195 BP) vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 636-750 (203.1 - 239.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Beam vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 255-301 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 88 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 469-553 (116 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
OR
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psychic vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 153-181 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psychic vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 115-136 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 88 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 469-553 (116 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(Can't beat Psyshock)

+2 252 Atk burned Mimikyu [Never-Ending Nightmare+Shadow Sneak] vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Volcarona: 250-295 (80.3 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
88 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mimikyu: 279-328 (111.1 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Quagsire: Unranked -> C+/B-
If your opponent does less than 86% on the first hit, you win. It's slow enough so that it wins Toxic stall wars against other stallers lacking Taunt too. Top 10
Quagsire @ Normalium Z
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stockpile
- Recover
- Toxic
- Scald

252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Quagsire: 288-339 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Crustle Continental Crush (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Quagsire: 174-204 (44.1 - 51.7%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Quagsire: 297-349 (75.3 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Teravolt Kyurem-Black Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Quagsire: 313-370 (79.4 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Quagsire: 333-393 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Quagsire: 320-378 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Quagsire: 228-268 (57.8 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Tapu Koko Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Quagsire: 272-320 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Donphan Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Quagsire: 342-403 (86.8 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHK

252+ SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Quagsire: 68-81 (17.2 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO

252 Atk Mimikyu Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Quagsire: 250-295 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO