Metagame 2v2 Doubles

#27
Deoxys-Attack and Tapu Lele

Deoxys
Why is it broken?
Deoxys-Attack gets a huge boost from Psychic Terrain making it virtually unstoppable. It's fast and frail but who cares about being frail if priority doesn't affect you?

Tapu Lele
Why is it broken?
Deoxys-Attack gets a huge boost from Psychic Terrain making it virtually unstoppable. It's fast and frail but who cares about being frail if priority doesn't affect you?
Lele can support numerous other things like this.


What did we just learn?
Deoxys-Attack is powerful but luckily it doesn't like priority and can be taken out with Fake Out or Sucker Punch support.
Tapu Lele takes away these weaknesses and gives it an additional power boost.

The course of action in my opinion is one of 2 options

1: Ban Tapu Lele, keep Deoxys-Attack
2: Ban Tapu Lele, ban Deoxys-Attack

Banning only Deoxys-Attack isn't realistic because it's not the core of the problem. Banning neither is obviously a problem.

~Mez
 
#28
Gen 7's new Doubles-relevant abilities:
  • Battery - almost useless in regular doubles anyway
  • Dancer - very situational
  • Dazzling/Queenly Majesty - might be handy if you want a different terrain
  • Electric/Grassy/Misty/Psychic Surge - terrain wars are Gen 7's weather wars
  • Power of Alchemy/Receiver - not really suitable for 2v2
  • Slush Rush - you're still ice type
  • Soul-Heart - handy because you get a boost when anything dies
  • Stakeout - useless in 2v2
 

Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
#29
Gen 7's new Doubles-relevant abilities:
  • Battery - almost useless in regular doubles anyway
  • Dancer - very situational
  • Power of Alchemy/Receiver - not really suitable for 2v2
I'll have you know that I've seen these abilities utilized to success in 2v2 Doubles recently. Never underestimate the power of gimmicks!
 
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#30
Gen 7's new Doubles-relevant abilities:
  • Battery - almost useless in regular doubles anyway
  • Dancer - very situational
  • Dazzling/Queenly Majesty - might be handy if you want a different terrain
  • Electric/Grassy/Misty/Psychic Surge - terrain wars are Gen 7's weather wars
  • Power of Alchemy/Receiver - not really suitable for 2v2
  • Slush Rush - you're still ice type
  • Soul-Heart - handy because you get a boost when anything dies
  • Stakeout - useless in 2v2
Am I wrong in thinking that Magearna is banned, and hence Soul-Heart is useless?
 
#31
Am I wrong in thinking that Magearna is banned, and hence Soul-Heart is useless?
That is indeed the case. Magearna is not allowed in Doubles OU and thus banned in 2v2

Gen 7's new Doubles-relevant abilities:
  • Battery - almost useless in regular doubles anyway
  • Dancer - very situational
  • Dazzling/Queenly Majesty - might be handy if you want a different terrain
  • Electric/Grassy/Misty/Psychic Surge - terrain wars are Gen 7's weather wars
  • Power of Alchemy/Receiver - not really suitable for 2v2
  • Slush Rush - you're still ice type
  • Soul-Heart - handy because you get a boost when anything dies
  • Stakeout - useless in 2v2
Thanks for the intro, it's really appreciated.
I'm confident Power of Alchemy can be really good in a few situations, but the others are indeed mediocre at best
 
#34

Meloetta @ Choice Specs
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 160 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpA / 56 SpD / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball

This is a set I used last generation in my main team, it is helpful against a couple of weather cores and others especially when teamed up with physically offensive Pokemon such as Dragonite. Hyper Voice is a scary move when used alongside Choice Specs as it hits both foes on the field and should always be the move to go unless the opponent has something to resist it. Psychic hits harder allowing Meloetta to nail much more KOs if needed especially on Fighting-type Pokemon while Shadow Ball notably takes on Ghost-type Pokemon and Energy Ball on Water-type Pokemon due to Rain being a dominant weather play.

I'm also accepting 2v2 doubles cores as resources so if you have an offensive or defensive core post here, thanks!
 
#35
alright so i decided to write something here because i was forced to because i wanted to post some cool more gimmicky sets for 2v2 doubles showcasing the abilities battery, dancer and my personal favorite the move guard split. (this is my first post so if there is something i could improve or do better next time on please do tell me)

anyway here are the sets duo #1:

volcanic storm (Volcarona) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 136 SpD / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Protect

dance baby dance (Oricorio-Pom-Pom) @ Leftovers
Ability: Dancer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Revelation Dance
- Protect
- Taunt


set up with quiver dance, use taunt to shut down opposing pokemon and sweep.
main weakness: rock types

duo #2:

x-mas cannon (Xurkitree) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Discharge
- Energy Ball
- Tail Glow

your demise (Charjabug) @ Eviolite
Ability: Battery
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Electroweb
- Light Screen
- Toxic
- Rest

slow down opponents using electroweb, set up with tail glow and destroy everything.
main weakness: things immune to electric type attacks.

alright time for some real fun duo #3:

luckster (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Healer
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy

the shuck (Shuckle) @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Guard Split
- Acupressure
- Struggle Bug
- Power Split

eviolite boosted with shuckle shared defenses and chansey hp i dare you to ohko this thing after guard split.
main weakness: taunt and powerful moves killing one of the 2 moves before the settup.

alright hope you have fun with them.
 
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#36

What are everyone thoughts on Tapu Lele in 2v2 doubles? Thanks to its ability in Psychic Surge it can summon Psychic Terrain which is a terrifying terrain in 1v1. Psychic Terrain negates priority moves and boosts Psychic-type moves especially Tapu Lele's. Teammates of Tapu Lele include Mega Metagross and Deoxys-Attack benefit a lot from that terrain as Deoxys-Attack, which has poor bulk, no longer fear priority moves notably Fake Out and can easily nail a Pokemon with a boosted Psycho Boost. Meanwhile Mega Metagross is also another partner that likes having its Psychic-type moves boosted, especially Zen Headbutt, which can be scary with the help of Tough Claws. Tapu Lele gives an enormous advantage to its side and can pressure the opponent easily. Should Tapu Lele be banned of 2v2 doubles?
 
#37
To be honest even tho i love tapu lele. i think it should be suspected.

Its ability imo breaks alot of pokemon. Set up sweepers lose their only offensive check in priority, it gives psuedo psychic stab boost to already very powerful psychics such as mega metagross, deoxys attack. It seems like its a problem


Now for a mon id like to bring attention to

Tsareena (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Trop Kick
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics
- Protect
Max hp and max attack to maximize bulk and take advantage of its decent attack stat

Trop kick is a cool stab that lowers attack 100% of the time, high jump kick gives some good coverage hitting mons that resist grass, acrobatics to beat other grasses and protect when needed.

Probably not gonna be very relevant but it has its niche that its ability acts like a pseudo psychic terrain (if lele ends up being banned), which allows it to support frail mons like deoxys attack and protect them from fake out, sucker punch and such

I picked this over bruxish since it has better bulk, and has a better typing imo (losing to tapu koko is not cool), but i guess you can use bruxish if u want a more offensive oreiented mon

What do you think? Do you think its useable when pairing it up with frail speedy mons like tapu koko, deoxys?
 
#38
To be honest even tho i love tapu lele. i think it should be suspected.

Its ability imo breaks alot of pokemon. Set up sweepers lose their only offensive check in priority, it gives psuedo psychic stab boost to already very powerful psychics such as mega metagross, deoxys attack. It seems like its a problem


Now for a mon id like to bring attention to

Tsareena (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Trop Kick
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics
- Protect
Max hp and max attack to maximize bulk and take advantage of its decent attack stat

Trop kick is a cool stab that lowers attack 100% of the time, high jump kick gives some good coverage hitting mons that resist grass, acrobatics to beat other grasses and protect when needed.

Probably not gonna be very relevant but it has its niche that its ability acts like a pseudo psychic terrain (if lele ends up being banned), which allows it to support frail mons like deoxys attack and protect them from fake out, sucker punch and such

I picked this over bruxish since it has better bulk, and has a better typing imo (losing to tapu koko is not cool), but i guess you can use bruxish if u want a more offensive oreiented mon

What do you think? Do you think its useable when pairing it up with frail speedy mons like tapu koko, deoxys?
What's very cool about Tsareena is that it doesn't block Deoxys-A's Extreme Speed like Tapu Lele's Psychic Terrain does. So while you might lose out on the 1.5x power boost to Psycho Boost, Deoxys-A can better pick off a Scarf Pokemon.

I'm not sold on Sitrus Berry Bulky Acrobatics, as it's just super situational. I think just Focus Sash with like Play Rough of some other Support Move (like Screens or Synthesis) would be much more effective as it would increase Queenly Majesty's lasting time for DeoA or DeoN to clean up. Or if you really wanted to tech against Trick Room teams, you can meme with Fling King's Rock against the Trick Room setter turn 1. Requires a bit of prediction, but I doubt anyone would expect it from the beginning.
 
#39
What's very cool about Tsareena is that it doesn't block Deoxys-A's Extreme Speed like Tapu Lele's Psychic Terrain does. So while you might lose out on the 1.5x power boost to Psycho Boost, Deoxys-A can better pick off a Scarf Pokemon.

I'm not sold on Sitrus Berry Bulky Acrobatics, as it's just super situational. I think just Focus Sash with like Play Rough of some other Support Move (like Screens or Synthesis) would be much more effective as it would increase Queenly Majesty's lasting time for DeoA or DeoN to clean up. Or if you really wanted to tech against Trick Room teams, you can meme with Fling King's Rock against the Trick Room setter turn 1. Requires a bit of prediction, but I doubt anyone would expect it from the beginning.
Totally forgot that, so you can revenge frail scarfers with extreme speed maybe while they cant use priority on you. tsareenas ability is really cool

Btw the reason i added acrobatics is because it gives more coverage than play rough would do.

And now thinking about it actually, fling + kings rock sounds like a good idea
Yea sure it sounds like a meme but it allows tsareena to get a crucial one time flinch on a fatmon or a trick room mon which can help alot

Screens sounds nice, but this will be paired up with focus sash users anyways so i feel like its kinda useless (only if it got helping hand)
 

Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
#41
Guide to counter the famous Aromatisse-Snorlax combo aka Aromalax?
Don't know about famous, but I'm assuming it's Trick Room Heal Pulse Aromatisse and Belly Drum Snorlax?
If that's the case, your best bet is focus firing the Snorlax with hard hitting attacks as Aromatisse doesn't have redirection. Also, considering that Snorlax is likely to use Protect while Aromatisse sets up TR, you could try to nuke the Aromatisse on the first turn.

Other than just straight up nuking, some specific stuff I think might work depending on the users are Mold Breaker Taunt, Unnerve (for Snorlax's berry), and Unaware. Unaware Clefable with Follow Me takes at least 1 hit from Snorlax and insures that Snorlax doesn't get any healing through Heal Pulse during that turn.

This may not have been a real guide, but I hope it helps in some way for now.
 
#43
Don't know about famous, but I'm assuming it's Trick Room Heal Pulse Aromatisse and Belly Drum Snorlax?
If that's the case, your best bet is focus firing the Snorlax with hard hitting attacks as Aromatisse doesn't have redirection. Also, considering that Snorlax is likely to use Protect while Aromatisse sets up TR, you could try to nuke the Aromatisse on the first turn.

Other than just straight up nuking, some specific stuff I think might work depending on the users are Mold Breaker Taunt, Unnerve (for Snorlax's berry), and Unaware. Unaware Clefable with Follow Me takes at least 1 hit from Snorlax and insures that Snorlax doesn't get any healing through Heal Pulse during that turn.

This may not have been a real guide, but I hope it helps in some way for now.
Another great choice is Jirachi, since it can flinch Aromatisse or take hits from snorlax; for similar reasons, strong attackers that can hit aromatisse SE such as MMeta or Just hard like Tapu Koko helps.
 

Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
#44
There is the slight issue there that Basculin is the only Mold Breaker Taunt user who isn't weak to Fairy, which might be a problem.
You're right, but the fairy weak pokes might work with sash and/or a partner with redirection.
Something else that might work is replacing Aromatisse's ability while carrying Taunt on one or both your pokes.

E: Spore and Haze might work too. Haze would need to be either Murkrow for Prankster, or a poke slow enough to outspeed Snorlax in TR, in which case Dusclops seems to be the most viable option.

Another great choice is Jirachi, since it can flinch Aromatisse or take hits from snorlax
Jirachi is banned though.
 
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#45
You're right, but the fairy weak pokes might work with sash and/or a partner with redirection.
Something else that might work is replacing Aromatisse's ability while carrying Taunt on one or both your pokes.

E: Spore and Haze might work too. Haze would need to be either Murkrow for Prankster, or a poke slow enough to outspeed Snorlax in TR, in which case Dusclops seems to be the most viable option.


Jirachi is banned though.
It is? I figured 2v2 would just dollow the initial banlist, especially since redirection-> setup sweeper is less potent without a team to sweep. I suppose it doesn't say that anywhere, though, so that's my bad. Either way, the point remains; stopping aromatisse, whether by flinching (fake out) or by direct attacks, neuters snorlax, and is a much easier task besides - especially when compared to skill swap+ taunt, dusclops, or murkrow.
 

Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
#46
It is? I figured 2v2 would just dollow the initial banlist, especially since redirection-> setup sweeper is less potent without a team to sweep. I suppose it doesn't say that anywhere, though, so that's my bad. Either way, the point remains; stopping aromatisse, whether by flinching (fake out) or by direct attacks, neuters snorlax, and is a much easier task besides - especially when compared to skill swap+ taunt, dusclops, or murkrow.
Couldn't the "team to sweep" be seen as more obstacles/hindrance? I still don't see enough difference here to justify going against that ban.
Regarding "AromaLax", indeed taking out the Aromatisse the 1st turn seems to be the best option, I was just exploring other potential options.
 
#47
Couldn't the "team to sweep" be seen as more obstacles/hindrance? I still don't see enough difference here to justify going against that ban.
Regarding "AromaLax", indeed taking out the Aromatisse the 1st turn seems to be the best option, I was just exploring other potential options.
Taking out the Aromatisse is prediction reliant because if you double target it turn 1 and it protects Snorlax gets a free belly drum. Which leads to a hard choice for both players on turn 2. Will the Snorlax protect or will it return and for the opponent which Pokémon to Focus fire?

My favorite way to deal with aromalax would just be fake out t1 on Aromatisse and attack lax and then Focus fire whichever one used protect turn 1.
 

Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
#48
I'd like to bring attention to a loophole in the banlist, which is that accuracy dropping moves are allowed even though evasion boosts, and even evasion abilities are banned. Dropping the accuracy of the opponent is essentially the same as evasion boosting in 2v2 Doubles as you can't switch.
 
#49
I'd like to bring attention to a loophole in the banlist, which is that accuracy dropping moves are allowed even though evasion boosts, and even evasion abilities are banned. Dropping the accuracy of the opponent is essentially the same as evasion boosting in 2v2 Doubles as you can't switch.
That's not exactly true, though. Evasion abilities are the same as accuracy in 1v1, but in 2v2 this means the other pokemon is entirely free to smack the -acc user with no risk of miss and/or force the user to take twice as long. It may still be a good idea to get rid of, but the mechanics arent the same.
 

Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
#50
That's not exactly true, though. Evasion abilities are the same as accuracy in 1v1, but in 2v2 this means the other pokemon is entirely free to smack the -acc user with no risk of miss and/or force the user to take twice as long. It may still be a good idea to get rid of, but the mechanics arent the same.
Nothing stops you from using 2 accuracy droppers, targeting both opposing pokes. Another scenario would be dropping the accuracy of 1 poke and KO'ing the other.