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Yeah, Terrakion is definitely Mega Kangaskhan's top Maison nemesis, and especially in singles you need to be sure that your teammates can handle it (not always easy due to Terrakion's Speed, power, and flinch / high critical hit rate moves). Congrats on getting all five trophies!
I've updated the leaderboard through here. Note that I'll certainly keep updating X/Y streaks after Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are released, so don't feel that there's some mad rush to complete current in-progress streaks.
Since we’re on the cusp of ORAS release, it’s kind of fitting that I have an opportunity to post about what I’ve been toying around with in the Singles Maison. My assumption is that people are going to care a heck of a lot less about XY Maison after Thursday, myself included, so it’s a bit of a last hurrah before we kick off the remake era of Gen 6. I’m disappointed a little bit that I couldn’t crank out a few hundred more wins but, as they say, time is the great equalizer in the Tower / Frontier / Subway / Maison.
First, some background. I hadn’t been playing any part of the Maison since the release, outside of gaining some BP for key TMs and items with my old Subway singles team and random VGC mons in doubles, so this was kind of a random binge for me. I’m not sure exactly what prompted the urge to give it a real shot, or to even read the thread at all since I hadn’t visited Smogon in months (last post was July), but it was fun to go through this thread back in September / October and see what strategies everyone was up to. Maybe it was reading some fresh Jumpman16 walls of words and the other great posts here, I’m not sure, but after I started combing through teams in a bit more detail I just had to try for my own run. I got the fever.
Reading parts of the thread I knew I wasn’t interested in using a Durant or crippling style team so that was out. I won’t deny the success of that style, the records speak for themselves, but to me there’s something about those teams that’s equal parts clever and dull. Smart in their technique but very repetitive in nature. Like I mentioned, I had used my Subway team a bit to grind BP but I found that team underwhelming for one reason or another.
So, starting from scratch, I looked through my boxes for some ideas. One pokemon that popped out was Gyarados. Somewhat surprisingly it’s not found frequently on the leaderboard, I think I know why and will touch on in a moment, yet on paper it’s pretty unique.
The cool thing about and what drew me to the BIG FISH is that it functions very well in and out of its mega form. It’s a traditionally strong pokemon by default so tacking on the mega stone is a luxury more so than a requirement like it is for say, Mawile. Additionally, Gyarados is one of only five Maison legal pokemon that changes type through mega evolving. This is valuable against the AI considering the Maison never accounts for that possible type change, as I’m sure you knew. This mechanic creates a very subtle form of AI abuse and generates a lot of free first turns which works great with Dragon Dance. Intimidate and the stat increases Gyarados gets by going mega aid the set up even more. Then, for sweeping utility, Mold Breaker is nothing to sneeze at and proves its worth against various Storm Drain and Sturdy mons.
The set itself is fairly standard. Substitute is a requirement for scouting, blocking status and buying more set up turns. Waterfall is the strongest STAB option, which is admittedly the weakest aspect of Gyarados and why I think it’s not used more frequently when compared to, say, Dragonite. Still, the flinch chance is sort of nice and it’s fairly reliable for OHKOs with a few Dragon Dances under the belt. Return started as Earthquake but there’s only a few pokemon where a Ground type attach outweighs the wide reaching neutral coverage of Normal/Water and, once I switched, the results validated the choice.
I should touch on the EVs since they’re different than the 252/252 spreads I’ve seen posted. Because I pulled this pokemon from my boxes, it has a VGC spread I jacked from someone, can’t remember who. I just started using it, found the results to be good, and just stuck with it. I think it’s intended to survive some key Thunderbolts as a regular Gyarados with Wacan Berry but, considering the type change from Water/Flying to Water/Dark is a permanent electric resist berry, the principle is similar. With Intimidate support and the make up of the rest of the team, 130 base special defense ends up being the better stat to invest in. The speed works out to get ahead of most things after a Dragon Dance and was never an issue. And since I had such little investment in attack and significant bulk, I usually went for, and got, 2-3 DD’s when given the opening.
Few examples of that bulk against some typically tough to cover mons.
Starmie4
44+ Atk Mega Gyarados Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 73-87 (53.6 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 164 HP / 108 SpD Mega Gyarados: 64-76 (33.5 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
— Cool thing here is that even with 2 max damage rolls and one of them being a CH, MegaDos still survives with 1HP
Electivire4
-1 252 Atk Electivire Thunder Punch vs. 164 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 78-92 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 44+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electivire: 154-183 (102.6 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Jynx4
252 SpA Jynx Blizzard vs. 164 HP / 108 SpD Mega Gyarados: 32-38 (16.7 - 19.8%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
Volcarona4
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Hurricane vs. 164 HP / 108 SpD Gyarados: 72-85 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Tornadus1
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Hurricane vs. 164 HP / 108 SpD Mega Gyarados: 87-105 (45.5 - 54.9%) -- 60.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Focus Blast vs. 164 HP / 108 SpD Mega Gyarados: 127-151 (66.4 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So you can’t have Gyarados without Ferrothorn. They go together like peanut butter and jelly. I won’t elaborate much here because not much has changed since the Subway for this gal and how it supports Gyarados (and vice versa). It’s just a no brainer. Oh, though I will make mention of the fact that Mega Gyarados picks up the slack for those Ghost and Dark resistances Ferrothorn lost in moving from Gen 5 to Gen 6.
A little extra defense here instead of a 252/252 spread only because this is my go to switch in for Archeops, Aerodactyl, Rampardos and Tyrantrum. No calcs used to back this up but considering CH CB Head Smash and Stone Edges hurt, the extra stats help. Makes life a little easier when setting up Curses, too.
Little star next to the pokemon name indicates that it’s shiny which did waste minutes of my life due to animations… but this was a poke transfer from Gen 5 and had all its PP maxed out so whatever. I didn’t feel like rebreeding, either. No nickname because that’s how boring Ferrothorn rolls.
This third slot was pretty up in the air until it kind of dawned on me that certain combinations of moves can really mess with Gyarados + Ferrothorn. Electric and Fighting. Grass and Fighting. Electric and Fire. Rock and Fighting. Fairy and Fire. Fairy and Fighting. Gliscor provides a resistance or immunity to everything except Fairy and Fire, which is by far the least threatening combo… Slurpuff4, a threat, really?? This is the bread for that PB+J, holding it all together. Gliscor ended up being a great cover for things like Hawlucha, Meinshao, Lucario, most Electric types, select Ground/Rock/Steels (Gliscor owns you, Donphan4).
Jumpman was definitely on to something with this EV spread so full marks to him, as if we ever doubted his concoctions. The defense stats weren’t needed with Intimidate support and Ferrothorn’s ability to boost its own defense. Having that special bulk allowed for more flexibility in what it could PP or Toxic stall.
Side note… Not really relevant but I found this calc pretty funny:
252 SpA Garchomp2 Surf vs. 236 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 66-78 (36.6 - 43.3%) -- 8.1% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
The nickname is a Youth Lagoon song about sickness / death but I just thought the repeated line "you'll never die" was fitting for a Poison Heal Gliscor. Plus, it's kind of an off shoot of Drapula which works as a subtle nod to the EV spread.
~~~
And that’s Team Substitute. Substitute is the shared move across all three team members and the move I rely on a ton in order to win battles. Get that move set up in a favorable matchup and each of these Pokemon is strong enough in their own right to use that momentum to earn a win. Nothing too fancy, just using good bulk and a great move to make up for going second, as well as protect against CHs, status, stat drops, and OHKOs.
Like all teams, there are minor flaws, holes, few pokemon / trainers I don’t love seeing. In general, it’s a slow team. Both in base stats and play style so that’s a negative. My entire experience has been over the course of 6-7 weeks for what amounts to less than 600 battles (team is 583-2 overall).
Main trainers I hate seeing are the Roller Skaters (Electric + Flying sets 3&4 can be tricky), Punk Guy Puck due to all the intimidates, Chef Roux since things like Victreebel4 in Sun are not fun, and the Veterans that can have all 4 legendary sets since I hate playing detective on what they’re using.
Some annoying pokemon examples are….
Yanmega due to Air Slash, hits pretty hard and Speed Boost.
Ferrothorn4 due to it knowing Rock Smash and me not having a fire move. You can stall it down if played conservatively but it’s just time consuming.
Other random stally Grass pokemon due to the waiting game.
Lanturn4 since I typically like to stall out Ice Beam PP before letting Gliscor handle it.
Noivern / Chandelure / Spiritomb because Infiltrator hard counters Substitute and my team really relies on that move.
Braviary4…
From my notes… From the lead spot with Defiant, this thing is a threat. Best way to handle is to switch to Ferrothorn, bait the Superpower and switch immediately to Gliscor to get it back to neutral attack.
+1 252+ Atk Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 68 Def Ferrothorn: 123-145 (67.9 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It will Tailwind first versus Gliscor so go ahead and Toxic, then Protect/Sub stall.
Abomasnow4 is annoying to Gyarados. Strategy against most Ice pokemon is to mega evolve and remove the Flying type but Hail damage plus Focus Blast is a pretty reliable 2HKO… while 44+ Atk Mega Gyarados Return is a 3HKO. Heads up this is still winnable and Abomasnow throws out Protects but it makes me nervous.
Aforementioned Tornadus1 since nothing is safe to switch in against that.
Various rival Gyarados can suck thanks to DD and Rest so gotta play that well.
There’s a few others, but the one that takes the cake is this guy:
Barbaracle4
All my notes on this one pokemon:
252+ Atk Sniper Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 86 Def Ferrothorn on a critical hit: 67-81 (37 - 44.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(67, 67, 69, 70, 72, 72, 72, 73, 73, 75, 76, 76, 76, 78, 79, 81)
252+ Atk Sniper Barbaracle Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 86 Def Ferrothorn on a critical hit: 51-61 (28.1 - 33.7%)
(51, 52, 52, 54, 54, 54, 55, 55, 57, 57, 58, 58, 58, 58, 60, 61)
NONCRIT 252+ Atk Barbaracle Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 68 Def Ferrothorn: 82-98 (45.3 - 54.1%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(82, 84, 84, 86, 86, 88, 88, 90, 90, 92, 92, 94, 94, 96, 96, 98)
252+ Atk Sniper Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 164 HP / 4 Def MegaGyarados on a critical hit: 171-202 (89.5 - 105.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
(171, 172, 175, 177, 180, 181, 181, 184, 186, 189, 190, 193, 195, 198, 199, 202)
252+ Atk Sniper Barbaracle Cross Chop vs. 164 HP / 4 Def Gyarados on a critical hit: 72-85 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(72, 73, 75, 75, 76, 76, 78, 78, 79, 81, 81, 82, 82, 84, 84, 85)
252+ Atk Sniper Barbaracle Razor Shell vs. 164 HP / 4 Def MegaGyarados on a critical hit: 63-75 (32.9 - 39.2%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO
(63, 63, 64, 64, 66, 67, 67, 67, 69, 69, 70, 72, 72, 72, 73, 75)
252+ Atk Sniper Barbaracle Cross Chop vs. 236 HP / 12 Def Gliscor on a critical hit: 49-58 (27.2 - 32.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal
(49, 49, 51, 51, 52, 52, 52, 54, 54, 55, 55, 55, 57, 57, 58, 58)
252+ Atk Sniper Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 236 HP / 12 Def Gliscor on a critical hit: 150-177 (83.3 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
(150, 150, 153, 154, 157, 159, 159, 162, 163, 166, 168, 168, 171, 172, 175, 177)
NONCRIT 252+ Atk Barbaracle Razor Shell vs. 236 HP / 12 Def Gliscor: 102-120 (56.6 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
(102, 102, 102, 104, 104, 108, 108, 108, 110, 110, 114, 114, 114, 116, 116, 120)
Can switch stall its CC and SE PP but can’t do much about criticals… puts either or both of ferrothorn/gyarados in a tough spot with low HP and no set up in place. Ferrothorn can handle 2 Sniper CHs (2/5 or 2/6 hits) and Gyarados only 1 (1/4 hits). Either way, not great likelihood in the PP stalling scenario.
This pokemon is the argument for Earthquake on Gyarados… easy 2HKO. MegaGyara Waterfall is a 3HKO… assuming no criticals, Stone Edge + Cross Chop is also a 3HKO at -1. But can’t always bank on that, obviously.
Chance of 2HKO between one Waterfall and one EQ from Gliscor but need a better than average damage roll from either attack (Average 58 damage from Waterfall and average 87 damage from Earthquake = 145/147 HP…). Guess worst case is Waterfall, watch Gyarados go down to a CH OHKO, switch in Gliscor, Protect to activate Toxic Orb, switch to Ferrothorn to take the Razor Shell, hope for no CH and get Iron Barbs damage, switch back to Gliscor, again hope no CH on the CC, then get the guaranteed KO with EQ. Gyara EQ + Gliscor EQ solves the exposure to a degree but still not a great enough solve to be worth giving up Return’s coverage. As noted, Sniper Stone Edge is a 31.3% chance to OHKO…
All this is assuming Barbaracle actually has the Sniper ability. If it doesn’t have Sniper, Gyarados tanks the CH Stone Edge a bit better and can be saved from the lead position after the initial Waterfall by then following the motions above. Gliscor gets a little more beat up but then you can make it to a 3-2 lead situation. Mega evolving and attacking ends up being the safest play to scout the ability. Either way, the damage from +0 Waterfall is just enough to be relevant. And hey, might actually get a flinch!
Phew. Still with me? Finally, the two losses I’ve experienced.
The first loss was at 230 in my original run. Easily avoidable so no need to even show the video. It was against Punk Guy Puck. He leads off with Luxray3, can tell because Intimidate cancels the White Herb. I immediately switch to Ferrothorn to draw the Superpower which is the mistake because Luxray uses Thunder Wave and paralyzes me. Go back to Gliscor, OHKO Luxray at -1 Def. In comes Gyarados1. I switch back to Ferrothorn hoping to get Leech Seed in before switching over to my own Gyarados to help with that mirror match. Find out its Gyara1 because of the Ice Fang on the switch. OK, so gotta watch for Thunder Wave against my own Gyarados now. I figure I’ll get the Leech Seed and just start Intimidate switch stalling. 5 DDs and 5 FPs later, Ferrothorn finally gets to land its Leech Seed which was ultimately a mere one turn too late when it all played out. Gyarados1 cleaned up with a sliver of HP remaining. Last pokemon was Salamence4 which would have been tough but manageable, especially if Ferrothorn didn’t get mauled by paralysis. Correct play against Luxray was to go Gliscor first for free Toxic Orb activation, then go to Ferrothorn on the Ice Fang, then back to Gliscor on the Superpower. Replaying it, Gyarados1 ignores using Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn and opts for DD / attacking so then it’s an easy win condition.
Second loss was last night and also potentially avoidable, though much less of a guarantee, and actually I had two opportunities stolen from me that otherwise would have sealed the game.
Veteran Zenobia
Raikou1, Tornadus1, Terrakion2
Lead Raikou is always an instant switch to Gliscor. Can determine whether it’s Raikou 1 or Raikou 2 on the switch because it will always try to use the electric attack on Gyarados. Raikou1 has TBolt and Raikou2 has Charge Beam. I Earthquaked first with Gliscor to kill the Shuca Berry. Protect next turn for HP recovery. Shadow Ball / Extrasensory need two hits to break the Sub so my hope was to Sub next turn after eating a hit, Protect back health, Sub takes a hit while I pick up the KO with EQ and hold a 3-2 lead with Gliscor still behind a Sub.
252 SpA Raikou Shadow Ball vs. 236 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 37-44 (20.5 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO - Max damage of 44 HP and Gliscor Subs are 45 HP.
That second hit I take from Shadow Ball drops my SpDef as I Sub up. While I do notice this unfortunate event, I forge ahead anyway. Protect and then EQ for the KO. 3-2.
In comes Tornadus and suddenly I’m like… shit. I’m in a terrible position to deal with this. Naked and -1 SpDef, Gliscor can’t do much here. But I also don’t have switch options so I have to pray but it’s a likely sacrifice. I should have Protected first just for better odds on the damage roll but it likely didn’t matter unless I got a miss.
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Hurricane vs. -1 236 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 156-185 (86.6 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
2-2. So, decisions, decisions. Gyarados or Ferrothorn. Either is 2HKOed by this thing….
Versus Gyarados
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Hurricane vs. 164 HP / 108 SpD Gyarados: 107-126 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 44+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus: 126-148 (81.8 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Versus Mega Gyarados
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Hurricane vs. 164 HP / 108 SpD Mega Gyarados: 87-105 (45.5 - 54.9%) -- 60.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Focus Blast vs. 164 HP / 108 SpD Mega Gyarados: 127-151 (66.4 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 44+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus: 150-177 (97.4 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Versus Ferrothorn
0 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Ferrothorn: 101-120 (55.8 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus: 108-127 (70.1 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So go to Gyarados thanks to Dragon Dance. But that doesn’t end up working out because Hurricane hits, confuses and Gyarados hurts itself… but only after getting +1/+1 just as an extra tease. 1-2. Ferrothorn comes in, gets a miss from Focus Blast and is able to OHKO (Life Orb damage has Tornadus at 70%). 1-1. Still a chance.
Last up is Terrakion. Not a great pokemon to see… Gyro Ball is a OHKOs but Terrakion1 is a OHKO with Close Combat. Terrakion2, however..
252+ Atk Terrakion Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 68 Def Ferrothorn: 128-152 (70.7 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That’s what I hoped would happen. This is what really happened:
252+ Atk Terrakion Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 68 Def Ferrothorn on a critical hit: 192-228 (106 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yeah, two chances to win here. Really hinged on Ferrothorn not being crit first and foremost. In retrospect, losing Gyarados, while shitty, was still manageable. Main thing here, though, while also unlucky, the SpDef drop was misplayed. Raikou is such a safe pokemon for this team that I should have just switched Gyarados back in for a turn and brought in Gliscor for free again to reset. Pretty simple oversight on my part and then the game was like “pokemon.”
Given how much time it took me just to do these battles, I’m pretty ready to say that’s it for this team. But I also have a strange affinity for this particular group... and pokemon has a way of sucking you back in…
Total win counts:
3303 wins using Lucario/Greninja for Triples
754 wins using Greninja/Charizard for Triples
943 wins using Mega Gardevoir with Triple Fake Out
Greninja/Charizard for Triples V6
Back-ups changed from Rotom-W/Garchomp/Infernape to Gastrodon/Aegislash/Latios (V5) and then to Gastrodon/Aegislash/Infernape (V6).
Gastrodon wears Assault Vest and Aegislash is physical with Weakness Policy.
Gastrodon, typically seen only on Rain teams, makes its debut in the Sun!
I originally bred Gastrodon for a rain team of Noivern/Ludicolo/Politoed/Gastrodon/Aegislash/Kingdra. Howewer, upon testing that team in Mock Battle, it turned out to be not very good - certainly far from reliable enough to use in this streak, and perhaps worse than even the Talonflame/Meowstic-M/Sawk gimmick trio. I was very impressed by Assault Vest Gastrodon, even though the team wasn't that good - with its massive special bulk, decent typing, and ability to almost single-handedly counter opposing Water-types in the rain, it started to look like an attractive option on a Sun team for the Rotom-W/anti-weather role. And thus V5 was born, with Aegislash and Latios (Levitator) tacked on top of Gastrodon. I played 100 or so battles with Latios before almost losing to a series of massive misplays, after which I switched Latios for Balloon Infernape (even without an allied Earthquake user, the back-line needs a Ground-immune Pokémon that can switch into Landorus2 Earth Power and other attacks, which Balloon Infernape does well enough).
Gastrodon is amazing - with Assault Vest, it only fears powerful STAB Grass attacks and Solar Beam from the special side. The EVs emphasize Defense to augment its low 68 base Defense, with enough HP/SDef to survive weaker STAB Energy Balls from Hex Maniac Pokémon and have great special bulk otherwise. Modest with near-max investment is needed to ensure it deals sufficient damage even without Storm Drain boosts, which it won't always get since this is a Sun team, heh. A Modest nature is preferred over Quiet to hit 59 Speed, outspeeding Brave 0-Speed Aegislash by 1 point and doing slightly better outside Trick Room.
Rindo Berry would allow Gastrodon to survive some weak physical Grass attacks (not Wood Hammer) and do better against Special ones at the cost of special bulk. Being able to tank through Sheer Force Earth Power, Latios Draco Meteor, and other things is useful when switching in and trading blows without Storm Drain boosts, so AssVest seems preferable. Grass attackers tend to die very quickly in the Sun (save for Heatran3, which is probably Gastrodon's worst enemy in a Sun team).
Earth Power/Scald/Ice Beam are standard. For the fourth slot, I chose Sludge Bomb since it was available through TM in XY, unlike other options for the slot (Hidden Power Electric, AncientPower (to OHKO Talonflame in the Sun), Icy Wind, ???). Sludge Bomb hits mono-Fairies and Ludicolo nicely; the fourth move is going to be very rarely used no matter what you pick, so it's a decent choice.
For a Sun team specifically, Gastrodon counters rain almost completely while providing switch options to all of Charizard's weaknesses. It's slow, and won't be sweeping the enemy team by itself - but with Entei, Charizard and Infernape dealing the damage, it doesn't need to. It also does okay in Sandstorm and Hail, surviving Blizzards all day long and thawing out with Scald. It fits the same role that Rotom-W fills, except with Storm Drain to hard-counter Water-types save for Ludicolo and Outrage Kingdra, different typing, and STAB Earth Power as its main attack over STAB Thunderbolt (which in turn lets you get away with not carrying Garchomp on your team - a first in any Triples Grenizard variant yet).
I didn't talk too much about Modest Entei's damage output in the Sun before, but it is ridiculous and a notch above other spread attackers (except for Charcoal ErupTran and Modest Typhlosion in Sun). Some calcs on specific fast threats to Greninja that it outspeeds with Choice Scarf (or doesn't get targeted by unless the AI is doing something insane in Manectric4's case):
248+ SpA Entei Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Electrode in Sun: 148-175 (109.6 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
248+ SpA Entei Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Jolteon in Sun: 127-150 (90.7 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
248+ SpA Entei Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manectric in Sun: 184-217 (126.8 - 149.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
248+ SpA Entei Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aerodactyl in Sun: 78-92 (50.3 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
248+ SpA Entei Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Crobat in Sun: 148-175 (92.5 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
248+ SpA Entei Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Braviary in Sun: 156-184 (89.1 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
While many of these are not guaranteed KOs, hitting every Pokémon on the field and bringing threats to a sliver of HP is often enough to win the battle even if Entei has to take a hit afterwards - and even at less than half HP, Eruption has enough power to finish off any KOs it missed on the first turn (Eruption's staying power is another reason Entei's bulk is useful). Entei's massive power means that Megazard can often use Protect to stay safe instead of having to risk getting hit.
Mega Gardevoir with Triple Fake Out V2
Thundurus-T (Choice Specs) with considerable bulk investment replaces Zapdos. Life Orb given to Infernape.
Starting off with Thundurus-T, which I only RNG'd a few days ago (and what a pain in the ass it was). With the given EVs, it is around 10% less physically bulky and 5% less specially bulky compared to 4 HP Zapdos; its Special Attack reaches 176, one point below 252 SAtk Zapdos; and it has 168 Speed, outspeeding base-100s like Zapdos and Mega Gardevoir by one point.
Thundurus's movepool is better for an offensive set in the Maison, as Grass Knot is a more useful and reliable move than Heat Wave. It also has Volt Absorb, which is excellent even though no Pokémon on the team is weak to Electric - many Electric-types in the Maison are hard-hitting and generally unpleasant, including Magnezone (possible Analytic, massive Special Attack), Zapdos (Magnet Thunderbolt on Set1, Petaya Berry Thunder on Set3, Charge Beam boosts stack up rapidly on Set2), Thundurus (Choice Specs on Set2), and other bad guys like Jolteon, Electrode, Ampharos, and more. Strong STAB Thunderbolts usually 2HKO Zapdos; with Volt Absorb, Thundurus-T walls most Electric-types outright, even if it can't hurt some of them back. While the team does not have a particular Electric weakness, Electric types are just nasty in general with high-powered STABs, parahax, and good items and stats on the legendaries carried by Veterans.
On the downside, Thundurus-T's base stats are worse, as some of its 580BST is wasted on Attack, resulting in it having a lot less bulk. Howewer, its base Special Attack is so massive that it only needs minimal EV investment to hit very hard, allowing EVs to be diverted to HP to bring its bulk closer to Zapdos's and allowing it to survive attacks such as Greninja4 Blizzard and Vaporeon4 Expert Belt Ice Beam:
252 SpA Protean Greninja Blizzard vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 146-174 (83.4 - 99.4%) lol Greninja4 was Modest
252+ SpA Expert Belt Vaporeon Ice Beam vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 146-173 (83.4 - 98.8%)
But the point that it's got decent enough bulk to take a hit without getting OHKOed stands:
170+ SpA Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T in Rain: 141-166 (80.5 - 94.8%)
252+ Atk Golem Explosion vs. 164 HP / 8 Def Thundurus-T: 146-172 (83.4 - 98.2%)
252+ Atk Rhyperior Rock Slide vs. 164 HP / 8 Def Thundurus-T: 146-174 (83.4 - 99.4%)
The EV spread is pulled out of my ass to hit the arbitrary SAtk target of 176 - it works well enough and seems to be in the right ballpark, but I'm not confident it's the "right spread" - it could certainly be tweaked in either direction.
The 1-speed advantage is quite useful, allowing it to outspeed allied Mega Gardevoir (avoiding an awkward Speed tie) and the positive-natured base 100 speed tier:
Choice Specs deal very good damage and Volt Switch has excellent synergy with all the Fake Out users, but it does worse against Trick Room, Tailwind and friends. With Fake Out and Intimidate support, it is usually fine, but there's been one battle where Trick Room went up (Dusknoir4 + assorted threats) and Protect would've been very useful.
I think Thundurus-T's advantages far outweigh its slightly lesser bulk, and would recommend it over Zapdos for any Maison Doubles/Triples team - if you can get your hands on one. Zapdos is no slouch by any means, but Thundurus-T is a notch more effective at the role.
Freeing up Life Orb allows Infernape to use it instead, securing more KOs (including a 75% chance to OHKO Walrein and a 87.5% chance to OHKO Regigigas) and dealing massive damage even on neutral hits and annihilating almost anything with Life Orb Blaze Flare Blitz if its HP drops into Blaze range. Taking Life Orb damage on Fake Out is not a particularly welcome addition, but the raw power is worth it.
Speaking of Speed tiers, 4 Speed Hitmontop and 44 Speed Scizor both hit the 91-speed tier, which isn't a problem as they both mostly use priority attacks.
Threats include multiple powerful physical attackers, especially with Sand Rush or Swift Swim backing them up and if they crit through Intimidate; Evasion that causes Fake Out to miss, especially from Sand Veil and Snow Cloak and Lickilicky4; and some Inner Focus users such as Bisharp and Crobat. Magnezone4, Gengar4, Aurorus4 and Victreebel4 can OHKO Mega Gardevoir with a special attack without a crit, but they can be handled. Worker Rasmus is probably the worst trainer for this team to face, followed by a bad Sand Rush Excadrill4-infested line-up from other Workers, Artist Azure, and Pokemon Rangers. Trick Room would be a threat if it went up often, but double Fake Out is extremely effective at stopping it - only Dusknoir4 (a non-threat) or three threats combined can hope to set it up. It's only gone up (before a game-winning lead was had already) once or twice in the last ~200 battles.
It's been 5000 wins. I wish I could wrap this streak up already, but it keeps on going. I'll be taking a break for a while now, with ORAS coming out and Triples getting a bit repetitive again even with the team swaps.
(UPDATE)New Super Singles Streak Now At 1060!! Finally broke 1000! Battle video:6TYG-WWWW-WWWA-KNPH.Will post team details shortly.(UPDATE) One to go NEW BATTLE VIDEO: 2A7G-WWWW-WWWA-KU7Z =WIN-1,175!(UPDATE)NEW SUPER SINGLES STREAK 1,275!! Battle video:AYEG-WWWW-WWWA-L9JR.
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Second edit: I've corrected the cloyster EVs. The spread I was sent was a typo.
NoCheese Edit:
JohnJohn0624 sent me his moves and EV spreads, asking me to post them in a more readable manner, along with a link to his battle 1280 video. The video is legit, so I'm adding him to the leaderboard, but I have asked for some description of strategy, particularly for tough battles, since that's the most interesting part of successful streaks, and especially for a top streak, details are important. I'm also interested in the defensive EV split on Durant, which looks to be designed around a specific threat of some sort. He's posting from a 3DS and an ipod, which complicates things, but surely he can find a computer at some point to write this up.
Battle 1280: Y28G-WWWW-WWWA-MNS8
Durant @ Choice Scarf
Jolly
Truant
Flawless IVs
EVs: 172 / 0 / 108 / 0 / 0 / 228
Entrainment - Protect - Iron Head - X-Scissor
(UPDATE)New Super Singles Streak Now At 1060!! Finally broke 1000! Battle video:6TYG-WWWW-WWWA-KNPH.Will post team details shortly.(UPDATE) One to go NEW BATTLE VIDEO: 2A7G-WWWW-WWWA-KU7Z =WIN-1,175!(UPDATE)NEW SUPER SINGLES STREAK 1,275!! Battle video:AYEG-WWWW-WWWA-L9JR.
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NoCheese Edit:
JohnJohn0624 sent me his moves and EV spreads, asking me to post them in a more readable manner, along with a link to his battle 1280 video. The video is legit, so I'm adding him to the leaderboard, but I have asked for some description of strategy, particularly for tough battles, since that's the most interesting part of successful streaks, and especially for a top streak, details are important. I'm also interested in the defensive EV split on Durant, which looks to be designed around a specific threat of some sort, and the decision to run Defense EVs over Attack ones on Cloyster. He's posting from a 3DS and an ipod, which complicates things, but surely he can find a computer at some point to write this up.
Battle 1280: Y28G-WWWW-WWWA-MNS8
Durant @ Choice Scarf
Jolly
Truant
Flawless IVs
EVs: 172 / 0 / 108 / 0 / 0 / 228
Entrainment - Protect - Iron Head - X-Scissor
Durant's EVs are the same as VaporeonIce's, maximizing physical bulk and surviving Breloom4's CH Focus Punch.
The Defense EVs on Cloyster have to be a typo. It shouldn't be possible to mono-sweep with something as weak as 0+ Atk Cloyster; it misses more KOs than you could shake a stick at, even on some neutral targets (like Regirock and Cresselia), let alone resists - and in a crisis situation with just +2, it's going to be even worse. I'm assuming it has max Attack instead.
+6 0+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 165-200 (86.8 - 105.2%) -- even Entei survives Spear
I'm pissed that I lost my top 3 spot to a Durant copycat streak. The streak looks high for a Durant+2 team (compared to NoCheese's and GG Unit's Durant streaks), but with a bit of luck with not missing too many Entrainments and getting somewhat lucky back-up Cloyster or Chomp sweeps at +2 in some cases, I suppose it's possible. At least there's some competition in the 1253+ tier now, heh.
Durant's EVs are the same as VaporeonIce's, maximizing physical bulk and surviving Breloom4's CH Focus Punch.
The Defense EVs on Cloyster have to be a typo. It shouldn't be possible to mono-sweep with something as weak as 0+ Atk Cloyster; it misses more KOs than you could shake a stick at, even on some neutral targets (like Regirock and Cresselia), let alone resists - and in a crisis situation with just +2, it's going to be even worse. I'm assuming it has max Attack instead.
+6 0+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 165-200 (86.8 - 105.2%) -- even Entei survives Spear
I'm pissed that I lost my top 3 spot to a Durant copycat streak. The streak looks high for a Durant+2 team (compared to NoCheese's and GG Unit's Durant streaks), but with a bit of luck with not missing too many Entrainments and getting somewhat lucky back-up Cloyster or Chomp sweeps at +2 in some cases, I suppose it's possible. At least there's some competition in the 1253+ tier now, heh.
Yo my man I don't know who you are and I really don't care but MY TEAM is exactly that MINE! Sorry you got your feelings hurt.This team was created by me!The bulk on Durant helps him survive much more physical attacks as well as outspeeds every pokemon except aerodactyl if it was scarfed Which I have never seen.I have been using Durant since it was released.Anyway I had no Idea that just cause you posted something first it BELONGS to you.If you are gonna hate on someone maybe you should play another game.With this team I could win another thousand!So let it be seen by people who love the game not ones who are looking for some recognition.Thanks for your time.The 252 on Cloyster is on Attack and the Dutant spread is The BEST spread for Him.
I've noticed Garchomp and Cloyster on a few TruAnt teams here and always wondered what their advantages were over other potential team members. For example; Swords Dance Chomp, does it not run the risk of being outsped due to not having a speed boosting move? I would have thought a Dragon Dancer like Dragonite or Salamence to be superior. And in regards to Cloyster, I know Icicle Spear has great neutral coverage on its own but what happens when you need to fall back on Rock Blast and it misses? I know Focus Sash gives you a buffer here but then you leave yourself vulnerable to be picked off by priority / another Rock Blast miss. In the case of facing an opponent that 'Chomp / Cloyster doesn't like, is the idea to switch back to Durant, Entrain and set up your back-up 'mon? Maybe I'm just not a great battler (very possible) but I would have thought these builds would be too risky to reach high streaks, but obviously that isn't the case as NoCheese and (especially) JohnJohn0624 have proven that with very similar teams. It would be great to hear more from JohnJohn on how he plays his team in these tough situations.
I've noticed Garchomp and Cloyster on a few TruAnt teams here and always wondered what their advantages were over other potential team members. For example; Swords Dance Chomp, does it not run the risk of being outsped due to not having a speed boosting move? I would have thought a Dragon Dancer like Dragonite or Salamence to be superior. And in regards to Cloyster, I know Icicle Spear has great neutral coverage on its own but what happens when you need to fall back on Rock Blast and it misses? I know Focus Sash gives you a buffer here but then you leave yourself vulnerable to be picked off by priority / another Rock Blast miss. In the case of facing an opponent that 'Chomp / Cloyster doesn't like, is the idea to switch back to Durant, Entrain and set up your back-up 'mon? Maybe I'm just not a great battler (very possible) but I would have thought these builds would be too risky to reach high streaks, but obviously that isn't the case as NoCheese and (especially) JohnJohn0624 have proven that with very similar teams. It would be great to hear more from JohnJohn on how he plays his team in these tough situations.
+6 Spear KOes stuff like Bronzong, so using Rock Blast should be a super uncommon occurrence; there's a lot more luck involved in avoiding being screwed over by leads that prevent set-up either through avoiding Entrainment with Protect/hax items or Exploding the first turn Cloyster uses Protect than there is with not losing once Cloyster sets up (although I've once lost with a team like this because Tyranitar came out 2nd and set up Sandstorm and a Sand Veil Gliscor came out 3rd and evaded Icicle Spear 3 times in a row). A very common Pokemon Cloyster doesn't like is Poliwrath, which can take anything at +6 while taking Cloyster down to 1HP and phazing it out with Circle Throw. If the lead KOed Durant, it's basically a 1v1 for Garchomp. I suppose Garchomp's advantage is its initial speed, since it should only be used to finish up in one of those situations where Cloyster gets hit twice. The only time to actually set it up first would probably be if the lead can break Cloyster's Sash by using Sandstorm.
+6 Spear KOes stuff like Bronzong, so using Rock Blast should be a super uncommon occurrence; there's a lot more luck involved in avoiding being screwed over by leads that prevent set-up either through avoiding Entrainment with Protect/hax items or Exploding the first turn Cloyster uses Protect than there is with not losing once Cloyster sets up (although I've once lost with a team like this because Tyranitar came out 2nd and set up Sandstorm and a Sand Veil Gliscor came out 3rd and evaded Icicle Spear 3 times in a row). A very common Pokemon Cloyster doesn't like is Poliwrath, which can take anything at +6 while taking Cloyster down to 1HP and phazing it out with Circle Throw. If the lead KOed Durant, it's basically a 1v1 for Garchomp. I suppose Garchomp's advantage is its initial speed, since it should only be used to finish up in one of those situations where Cloyster gets hit twice. The only time to actually set it up first would probably be if the lead can break Cloyster's Sash by using Sandstorm.
Hey guys how's everything?Ok when Cloyster sees Poliwrath first he's never a problem because he's truant.When he comes out second you have 2 options either eat the circle throw after hitting him with a +6 Icicle spear or switch out which I don't recommend,due to the fact that he's probably going to throw you anyway. I have been thrown plenty of times quite a few to Durant and I just set up again.If you get thrown to Chomp He has no problem finishing off a weak Poliwrath.
+6 Spear KOes stuff like Bronzong, so using Rock Blast should be a super uncommon occurrence; there's a lot more luck involved in avoiding being screwed over by leads that prevent set-up either through avoiding Entrainment with Protect/hax items or Exploding the first turn Cloyster uses Protect than there is with not losing once Cloyster sets up (although I've once lost with a team like this because Tyranitar came out 2nd and set up Sandstorm and a Sand Veil Gliscor came out 3rd and evaded Icicle Spear 3 times in a row). A very common Pokemon Cloyster doesn't like is Poliwrath, which can take anything at +6 while taking Cloyster down to 1HP and phazing it out with Circle Throw. If the lead KOed Durant, it's basically a 1v1 for Garchomp. I suppose Garchomp's advantage is its initial speed, since it should only be used to finish up in one of those situations where Cloyster gets hit twice. The only time to actually set it up first would probably be if the lead can break Cloyster's Sash by using Sandstorm.
Yo my man I don't know who you are and I really don't care but MY TEAM is exactly that MINE! Sorry you got your feelings hurt.This team was created by me!The bulk on Durant helps him survive much more physical attacks as well as outspeeds every pokemon except aerodactyl if it was scarfed Which I have never seen.I have been using Durant since it was released.Anyway I had no Idea that just cause you posted something first it BELONGS to you.If you are gonna hate on someone maybe you should play another game.With this team I could win another thousand!So let it be seen by people who love the game not ones who are looking for some recognition.Thanks for your time.The 252 on Cloyster is on Attack and the Dutant spread is The BEST spread for Him.
+6 Spear KOes stuff like Bronzong, so using Rock Blast should be a super uncommon occurrence; there's a lot more luck involved in avoiding being screwed over by leads that prevent set-up either through avoiding Entrainment with Protect/hax items or Exploding the first turn Cloyster uses Protect than there is with not losing once Cloyster sets up (although I've once lost with a team like this because Tyranitar came out 2nd and set up Sandstorm and a Sand Veil Gliscor came out 3rd and evaded Icicle Spear 3 times in a row). A very common Pokemon Cloyster doesn't like is Poliwrath, which can take anything at +6 while taking Cloyster down to 1HP and phazing it out with Circle Throw. If the lead KOed Durant, it's basically a 1v1 for Garchomp. I suppose Garchomp's advantage is its initial speed, since it should only be used to finish up in one of those situations where Cloyster gets hit twice. The only time to actually set it up first would probably be if the lead can break Cloyster's Sash by using Sandstorm.
Hey guys how's everything?Ok when Cloyster sees Poliwrath first he's never a problem because he's truant.When he comes out second you have 2 options either eat the circle throw after hitting him with a +6 Icicle spear or switch out which I don't recommend,due to the fact that he's probably going to throw you anyway. I have been thrown plenty of times quite a few to Durant and I just set up again.If you get thrown to Chomp He has no problem finishing off a weak Poliwrath.
if anyone's interested, here's an (incomplete) list of preset multi AI partners you can choose from in ORAS. if i'm not mistaken, you don't have access to people you've added and their random teams like in XY. on the upside, the new partners are significantly better than the old presets (mega stones!). one last note- in XY, the preset partners could randomly switch their lead when you started a streak (but not during it). this is still the case in ORAS.
MAY
Claydol @ Light Clay
Calm/Levitate
252 HP/252 SpD
~Light Screen
~Reflect
~Earth Power
~Psychic
Exploud @ Assault Vest
Modest/Soundproof
252 SpA/252 SpD
~Hyper Voice
~Fire Blast
~Blizzard
~Shadow Ball
WALLY
Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Modest/Magnet Pull
252 SpA/252 SpD
~Thunder Wave
~Thunder
~Reflect
~Flash Cannon
ARCHIE
(in alpha sapphire. omega ruby has maxie who uses camerupt>sharpedo, idk the set)
Crobat @ Life Orb
Jolly/Inner Focus
252 Atk/252 Spd
~Cross Poison
~Brave Bird
~Super Fang
~Roost
Right. You ended up in a situation with a 78 HP +0 Garchomp out and a 1 HP Cloyster in back to face the third Pokemon. Conservatively speaking, there are quite a few Pokemon Battle Girl Rei could have sent out 3rd that would have beaten you in that situation (Hawlucha, Talonflame, Infernape, Darmanitan, Hariyama, Carracosta, and Archeops, not to mention some borderline stuff like Intimidate Arcanine, Charizard, and Volcarona that I'm just assuming Chomp can KO but might not). That's the kind of bad luck that most people would run into at least once within the first few hundred battles.
Right. You ended up in a situation with a 78 HP +0 Garchomp out and a 1 HP Cloyster in back to face the third Pokemon. Conservatively speaking, there are quite a few Pokemon Battle Girl Rei could have sent out 3rd that would have beaten you in that situation (Hawlucha, Talonflame, Infernape, Darmanitan, Hariyama, Carracosta, and Archeops, not to mention some borderline stuff like Intimidate Arcanine, Charizard, and Volcarona that I'm just assuming Chomp can KO but might not). That's the kind of bad luck that most people would run into at least once within the first few hundred battles.
Aye, for reference, keep using this thread for Maison discussion and streaks in both XY and ORAS. To the extent that we discover trainer/Pokemon/moveset/item differences, I'll create separate lists for XY streaks and ORAS streaks, but for now I plan to leave everything together. But if you have strong feelings concering whether or not streaks with ORAS exclusive Pokemon/moves should be combined or separated even if the opposing trainers end up being identical, please share your thoughts.
I can tell you for sure that there are new trainers and movesets. I just faced a Chef Burger on battle 26 of super singles who has a Dewgong with Fake out!
I just got the Super Singles trophy Wally was there And some other guy talking about records meant to be broken and 100 and 200 win streaks.I'm going for 100 I'll keep ya posted.
I can tell you for sure that there are new trainers and movesets. I just faced a Chef Burger on battle 26 of super singles who has a Dewgong with Fake out!
Dewgong3 already has Fake Out in the XY Maison
589 | Dewgong3 | Mild | Quick Claw | Fake Out | Surf | Ice Beam | Aqua Jet | SpA/SpD
Chef Burger seems to be a new trainer, though
I've heard there are more partners / pokemon available for Multi battles, has anyone been able to find any information on those?
I know you can team up with Wally, Steven, Archie and Maxie in Multis, I'm talking about new additions to the selections that AI's can have (like things that aren't listed on serebii etc)
I don't see the harm in integrating the streaks together, since we allow people to update their teams as they go- turskain has done this repeatedly as boredom settles in, and several people have replaced moves they hardly used.
The only concern I'd have is if we somehow learned that an excessive number of Set 4 pokes have changed, but that might not be the case.
We might also want a separate list for Multis, since evidently the team options are extremely different.
I've heard there are more partners / pokemon available for Multi battles, has anyone been able to find any information on those?
I know you can team up with Wally, Steven, Archie and Maxie in Multis, I'm talking about new additions to the selections that AI's can have (like things that aren't listed on serebii etc)
In all seriousness, JohnJohn0624 has probably been playing his XY streak for so long that he's forgotten / didn't know about the pre-battle 40 teams.
(also, JohnJohn0624, don't double / triple post. NoCheese will get mad)
Sorry about the 2x post I'm using an I pod so it doubles up sometimes.I have faced Dewgong so many times and he never used fake out on me.What about Volcarona with whirlwind?I never saw that either so I saved the video.Wally battling you at the trophy is new.Does anybody know what the deal is with the guy with the glasses who talks about 100 and 200 wins? It seems to me like there's more to the story.I could be wrong.It would be great if after you get all the trophies you go to the Battle Frontier.Wishful thinking!Anybody know anything about that?
Sorry about the 2x post I'm using an I pod so it doubles up sometimes.I have faced Dewgong so many times and he never used fake out on me.What about Volcarona with whirlwind?I never saw that either so I saved the video.Wally battling you at the trophy is new.Does anybody know what the deal is with the guy with the glasses who talks about 100 and 200 wins? It seems to me like there's more to the story.I could be wrong.It would be great if after you get all the trophies you go to the Battle Frontier.Wishful thinking!Anybody know anything about that?
It's Volcarona1.
373 | Volcarona1 | Modest | Power Herb | Fire Spin | Heat Wave | SolarBeam | Whirlwind | HP/Spd Here's the list if you're interested(it's also in the OP)
It's Volcarona1.
373 | Volcarona1 | Modest | Power Herb | Fire Spin | Heat Wave | SolarBeam | Whirlwind | HP/Spd Here's the list if you're interested(it's also in the OP)
Ok then. It seems as though the same pokemon are here with a few different trainers names.I just completed my first 100 wins on super singles and I haven't seen anything new.But that's only 100 battles so you never know.I used my same team and had no problems. Oh and I did get a Lanstat Berry from the little girl in the house next to the maison.I guess I'll get all my trophies now.
