A new generation of weather abuse

[Benlisted]

While one can say, "Take out Ninetales/Politoed early," the same can be said for Tyranitar/Hippowdon. I admit, yes, they are far more bulky (especially Hippo), but the same rule of thumb can still be applied. Also smart players don't lead with their weather inducer, they save them for a bit later.

In terms of leads, I see Ninetales leads much more rarely than any other. Hippowdon is most common, and Politoed and Ttar leads are probably similarly common. Hippo is very hard to take out but is easily walled by quite a few things, so he can at the least forced to give you a free switch if not killed. TTar is very tough but that 4x Fight weakness really hurts it. Politoed and Ninetales have similar bulk but Tales has that annoying SR weakness. Sand also has the option of running both inducers. Essentially, it is often very hard to take out the other inducer when played well.

The thing about these weathers is that without the inducers, typing alone is balanced out (for the most part). Sunny Day has Fire and Grass. Rain has Water. Sandstorm has Ground/Rock/Steel. Each weather's Pokemon carry strengths and weaknesses in accordance to one another. While Sunny Day is weaker to stealth rock, theoretically it has better type coverage against both weathers. Rain also has coverage against both weathers (many Water type Pokemon have Ice Beam). Finally, Sandstorm takes advantage of the more naturally defensive natures of their typing + Stealth Rocks + Sandstorm to create residual damage.

Sun has issues with Dragon types, but against opposing weather teams it does indeed match up very well type-wise. Due to being offensive, if not packing a 4x weak it can do fine even if SR is up as well. Thanks to the mole, however, more defensive SS teams now seem to be rare.

Now that's theoretically. Moveset wise and Pokemon wise, each one plays differently. Rain is the hyper offensive weather that seeks to deal damage. Sun seeks to spread status around with speedy Pokemon. Sandstorm helps create walls, as well as cause sweeps with new abilities.

No offense to you, but I really never understood why people took Sun for a Status spreading annoying teamstyle. In Gen 4 it was certainly as hyper-offensive as Rain due to it being on a timer, with the possible exception of Jumpluff. (Manaphy and the like excepted Rain's rule too, however). This Gen rain has changed to be very slightly more balanced with Hydration abusers and permarain, and SS has become much more offensive thanks to Sand Throw and Power. Sun however seems reasonably similar. Permasun is a change, but fast chlorophyll and powerful Fire sweepers are still its bread and butter, a reasonably offensive playstyle with perhaps a tad more balance in the form of Sleep Powders of Leech Seeders.

But Pokemonwise is where it gets interesting. The thing is, people are not restricted to certain Pokemon on certain teams. A whole team of weather abusers hardly ever works, and synergy must still be met.

The interesting thing is, with all the pokemon now available, it is reasonably possible to build a team completely based on weather abuse that is also pretty well balanced, especially with permaweathers. Of course this is not the only option, but it is a possibility.

For example: A Hippowdon/Tyranitar doesn't really look like it will have much chance against something bulky like Tangrowth or something speedy like Jumpluff who can incapacitate them/an incoming Pokemon with sleep powder. Now you essentially have a free turn to switch in your own Ninetales while theirs in incapacitated. If they switch into their set up sweeper like Doryuuzu, Sandstorm is now gone rendering their potential sweep useless.

Against rain, Sun is often able to force sacrifices of either Politoed or one other poke in order to get a safe restart of the weather, due to the Grass-types' advantage. This creates a pretty big problem, of course.

Sand's inducers are ofc very vulnerable to Tangrowth in particular, but Ninetales is likewise decimated by stray EQs, SR, or pursuiting TTars. When both are run it is incredibly hard for another weather to gain the upper hand.

This is just all Theorymon of course, but still. Don't rule out the other weathers by saying Sandstorm will completely dominate once again. It's never known; the metagame still has not received sufficient testing.

Sand only dominated over Rain last Gen because there was no permainducer for it in OU. Rain was definitely the better weather, but 8 turns of it was manageable. With all the changes though, it will indeed be interesting to see which comes out on top, especially as all 3 are contenders this time around. Hail, sadly, has been left behind somewhat.

 

[SJCrew]

While one can say, "Take out Ninetales/Politoed early," the same can be said for Tyranitar/Hippowdon. I admit, yes, they are far more bulky (especially Hippo), but the same rule of thumb can still be applied. Also smart players don't lead with their weather inducer, they save them for a bit later.

Really, I have no reservations at all about leading with Tyranitar. It's one of the best leads you can find in this metagame, as it can get up rocks, cancel out other early weather inducers from the start by virtue of being slow, and has awesome stopping power on both sides of the attacking spectrum. You're perfectly capable of switching him out of bad matchups so that you'll have Sand up right away and won't be in danger of losing him.

No matter which way you slice it, it's going to be harder to get rid of Tyranitar and Hippow than it is Politoed and Ninetails, as the former two actually pull their weight in their respective playstyles.

 

[JTwinkies]

In terms of leads, I see Ninetales leads much more rarely than any other. Hippowdon is most common, and Politoed and Ttar leads are probably similarly common. Hippo is very hard to take out but is easily walled by quite a few things, so he can at the least forced to give you a free switch if not killed. TTar is very tough but that 4x Fight weakness really hurts it. Politoed and Ninetales have similar bulk but Tales has that annoying SR weakness. Sand also has the option of running both inducers. Essentially, it is often very hard to take out the other inducer when played well.

Agreed with all of the above.

Sun has issues with Dragon types, but against opposing weather teams it does indeed match up very well type-wise. Due to being offensive, if not packing a 4x weak it can do fine even if SR is up as well. Thanks to the mole, however, more defensive SS teams now seem to be rare.

I have to agree. But for SS teams, there can always be a mix of bulky Pokemon who whittle down the opposition, then late game sweepers. Not necessarily a full out hyper offensive.

No offense to you, but I really never understood why people took Sun for a Status spreading annoying teamstyle. In Gen 4 it was certainly as hyper-offensive as Rain due to it being on a timer, with the possible exception of Jumpluff. (Manaphy and the like excepted Rain's rule too, however). This Gen rain has changed to be very slightly more balanced with Hydration abusers and permarain, and SS has become much more offensive thanks to Sand Throw and Power. Sun however seems reasonably similar. Permasun is a change, but fast chlorophyll and powerful Fire sweepers are still its bread and butter, a reasonably offensive playstyle with perhaps a tad more balance in the form of Sleep Powders of Leech Seeders.

I see where you're coming from. But even you said it yourself, it was hyper offensive due to it being on a timer. Now with permanent sun (against no weather/you took out the opposing weather), it's possible to abuse speedy status spreaders to their full potential. However, I have to agree that sweeps will be a central part of weather teams now. But still, forcing switches and incapacitating Pokemon with Sleep/Paralyze/Leech Seed is something to look into a bit.

The interesting thing is, with all the pokemon now available, it is reasonably possible to build a team completely based on weather abuse that is also pretty well balanced, especially with permaweathers. Of course this is not the only option, but it is a possibility.

Yeah, that's true. You can create a whole team weather abusers because of the original Pokemon's natural bulk and cause of new abilities. But nonetheless, depending on the team you'll still want to carry entry hazards/spin blockers/rapid spinners/etc. Sunny Day teams would like rapid spinners, stealth rock/spike stacking teams would still like spin blockers, etc.

Against rain, Sun is often able to force sacrifices of either Politoed or one other poke in order to get a safe restart of the weather, due to the Grass-types' advantage. This creates a pretty big problem, of course.

Sand's inducers are ofc very vulnerable to Tangrowth in particular, but Ninetales is likewise decimated by stray EQs, SR, or pursuiting TTars. When both are run it is incredibly hard for another weather to gain the upper hand.

True. That's the thing Sandstorm has. Two weather inducers, both who are very good Pokemon alone. I feel as if Rain and Sun balance one another out, while Sandstorm is a tad bit higher. But that's just my opinion.

Sand only dominated over Rain last Gen because there was no permainducer for it in OU. Rain was definitely the better weather, but 8 turns of it was manageable. With all the changes though, it will indeed be interesting to see which comes out on top, especially as all 3 are contenders this time around. Hail, sadly, has been left behind somewhat.

Yeah. Rain could have been a pretty dominant weather, because it had the best abusers for its hyper offensive playing style. But now that has spread to Sandstorm, and Sunny Day has their shot too, so it's interesting to even just think of what might happen. So far in theory, things are pretty balanced. But I really do hope Hail gets some love with Pokemon ________ (Grey?). Ice is a weak type like fire, but its usefulness offensively is pretty nice.

*Edit* To my above poster:

Really, I have no reservations at all about leading with Tyranitar. It's one of the best leads you can find in this metagame, as it can get up rocks, cancel out other early weather inducers from the start by virtue of being slow, and has awesome stopping power on both sides of the attacking spectrum. You're perfectly capable of switching him out of bad matchups so that you'll have Sand up right away and won't be in danger of losing him.

No matter which way you slice it, it's going to be harder to get rid of Tyranitar and Hippow than it is Politoed and Ninetails, as the former two actually pull their weight in their respective playstyles.

Yeah. Tyranitar and Hippowdon are definitely going to be tougher to take out. Sandstorm has the upper edge in that part (along with being able to use both, and not completely sacrifice your team). However, Rain against Sun seems like a decent match up.

 

[0verl0rd14]

What about Venusaur? In the sun, Chlorophyll doubles his speed, and Growth is turned into a NP + SD in one go. This makes hiim an INCREDIBLE wallbreaker in the sun.

Also, with HP ice, Venusaur can act as a sunny day team's dragon counter.

 

[Wafflez]

Venasaur is by far the best Sun abuser i have seen so far imo.With Sleep powder it can incapitate a foe and pretty much guarantee a Growth making him into a destructive sweeper hitting very hard from both sides of the dammage spectrum.And gl trying to outspeed him as well.And overlord i think what was trying to be said is its extreemely hard for Sunny day teams to take powerful hits from Dragons as they tend to not have resists.Revenge killing can easily be done but a smart player would probably keep his Dragon and keep repeatedly switching in to take out the major part of sun teams.Its deffinetly one of the biggest problems of sun.Yah dragons rape every kind of team but they just rape Sun even harder >:.And i think the same can be said for Rain teams who tend to be much more Hyper offensive then Sun and just keep spamming fast powerful sweepers to run through teams.But its somewhat harder to pull off aginst rain teams as they will probably be outsped and killed by almost all members of the rain team.Sand does much better aginst this i suppose as they have a Auto steel in the form of Dory and Tyranitar can easily take even the most powerful of Draco Meteors.Well thats how i see it anyway.
Imo the biggest reason Sand is better then the others is because they have a top tier inducer who is the best of the best at what they do while the other inducers are outclassed and weak.

 

[BurningMan]

Don't know if it was mentioned earlier but nattorei is excellent on all weather teams bar hail.

Rain Teams get a valuable Electric resist and a steel type to fight of dragons and he can has an advantage against both SS inducers since Gyro Ball wrecks TTar especailly Scarf Versions and he can toxic/leech seed Hippowdon and set up SR and Spikes wich is great for rain teams since they lack other good options for this (except forry, but this is because they both are pretty similar and forry is propably more useful for Rain Stall thanks to Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin). Rain also gets makes his fire weakness more handable.

On Sun Teams he provides a very useful water resist and can handle Draco Meteors and Outrages wich almost no common Sun Sweeper can handle bar Heatran. Like Rain teams Sun lacks useful SR users (Heatran is the exception, but on a sweeper set you might not want to run SR over a coverage move,Substitue or his new toy Nitro charge). His Fire weakness sadly gets even more horrible, but its not like Sun Teams should have problems taking Fire attacks. He also can handle Politoed with powe whip/Toxic etc. and as mentioned in the Rain Team part he works good against Sand Storm. Sun may not be his favorite weather, but he can work on more Fire oriented Sun Teams that could need another Grass type.

Sand Storm Teams like him, because of his resistance to Water wich helps to fight off Water Teams that might trouble them he also takes no damage from Sand Storm wich is always cool. not much to say here he can set up spikes and thats always good to have especially on Sand Stall he got a little more competition here from other Steel types, but he is a good pokemon and not that hard to fit on a Team.

Hail is propably the least place where you need him another 4x Fire weakness and another fighting weakness is nothing a Hail Stall team needs and Hail has absolutly no problem taking on Dragons or Water types. I would never advise to use him there since there are much better options.

 

[Benlisted]

I have to agree. But for SS teams, there can always be a mix of bulky Pokemon who whittle down the opposition, then late game sweepers. Not necessarily a full out hyper offensive.

True, typically Doryuuzu and the Ground Genie as sweepers and a more stallish core. Most tend to have an offensive presence anyway, to help weaken Doryuuzu's counters for him.

I see where you're coming from. But even you said it yourself, it was hyper offensive due to it being on a timer. Now with permanent sun (against no weather/you took out the opposing weather), it's possible to abuse speedy status spreaders to their full potential. However, I have to agree that sweeps will be a central part of weather teams now. But still, forcing switches and incapacitating Pokemon with Sleep/Paralyze/Leech Seed is something to look into a bit.

That is true, it is possible to abuse stuff like Jumpluff much more this Gen. However, Erufuun almost outclasses it even in terms of subseeding in the sun, Sleep powder being the main draw for Pluff. Most other chlorophyll mons are better off doing something else in addition. Leaf Guard also doesn't allow Rest's use, which is very unfortunate, as a fully healing Tangrowth with immunity to status would be potentially brilliant. Imo, Rain has more potential to become balanced than Sun this Gen, with hydration Manaphy amongst others, Dry Skin Subseeding Parasect, and more.

Yeah, that's true. You can create a whole team weather abusers because of the original Pokemon's natural bulk and cause of new abilities. But nonetheless, depending on the team you'll still want to carry entry hazards/spin blockers/rapid spinners/etc. Sunny Day teams would like rapid spinners, stealth rock/spike stacking teams would still like spin blockers, etc.

A lot of Rain teams seem to be using Tentacrul atm to Spin and T-Spike, and a few Sand ones use Doryuuzu to Spin too, and ofc have a SR user and often Natt/Forr to spike. Personally I don't run and hazards, relying instead on my Magic Coat lead to get a layer up to break sashes and Sturdy at some point in the match. (Also handily reflecting Sleep and Taunts). I entirely understand why a spinner would be needed for a lot of teams, but I fairly reliably do not let SR up, and only have 2 2x weaks on my team. Spikes would be an issue were it not for the fact that 5/6 of my team can OHKO their most common users with a fire move, and the other has Magic Coat. T-Spikes meanwhile are absorbed by Venusaur. I suppose that's an example of working around hazards, though.

True. That's the thing Sandstorm has. Two weather inducers, both who are very good Pokemon alone. I feel as if Rain and Sun balance one another out, while Sandstorm is a tad bit higher. But that's just my opinion.

In terms of inducers, definitely. Using the example of only one SS starter being present though, I sort of feel that Sun has the upper hand given its sheer brute power and speed, although a significantly stallish SS team can give this huge problems as LOs, misses, and clever switches take their toll (can't say about rain having only played Sun). If however both inducers are used it can be incredibly difficult for another weather to break, given Tales's inability to switch in and SR and Pursuit weakness. I suppose that equates to what you said, just for different reasons.

Yeah. Rain could have been a pretty dominant weather, because it had the best abusers for its hyper offensive playing style. But now that has spread to Sandstorm, and Sunny Day has their shot too, so it's interesting to even just think of what might happen. So far in theory, things are pretty balanced. But I really do hope Hail gets some love with Pokemon ________ (Grey?). Ice is a weak type like fire, but its usefulness offensively is pretty nice.

If a new ability like chlorophyll is created then yes, Hail would become amazing. Hugely powerful Specs Blizzards off doubled speed would be insane, but I can't see any new abilities being made halfway through a Gen. it'll be interesting to see if Abomasnow can find a place on teams wishing to prevent all the other weather's abuse, however.

What about Venusaur? In the sun, Chlorophyll doubles his speed, and Growth is turned into a NP + SD in one go. This makes hiim an INCREDIBLE wallbreaker in the sun.

Also, with HP ice, Venusaur can act as a sunny day team's dragon counter.

Venasaur is by far the best Sun abuser i have seen so far imo.With Sleep powder it can incapitate a foe and pretty much guarantee a Growth making him into a destructive sweeper hitting very hard from both sides of the dammage spectrum.And gl trying to outspeed him as well.And overlord i think what was trying to be said is its extreemely hard for Sunny day teams to take powerful hits from Dragons as they tend to not have resists.Revenge killing can easily be done but a smart player would probably keep his Dragon and keep repeatedly switching in to take out the major part of sun teams.Its deffinetly one of the biggest problems of sun.Yah dragons rape every kind of team but they just rape Sun even harder >:.And i think the same can be said for Rain teams who tend to be much more Hyper offensive then Sun and just keep spamming fast powerful sweepers to run through teams.But its somewhat harder to pull off aginst rain teams as they will probably be outsped and killed by almost all members of the rain team.Sand does much better aginst this i suppose as they have a Auto steel in the form of Dory and Tyranitar can easily take even the most powerful of Draco Meteors.Well thats how i see it anyway.
Imo the biggest reason Sand is better then the others is because they have a top tier inducer who is the best of the best at what they do while the other inducers are outclassed and weak.

Venusaur is without a doubt one of the best Chlorophyll abusers. Its speed, relative Special Bulk, fantastic movepool and power makes it deadly under Sun. He is in fact one of the best counters to opposing Dragons if he has grabbed a Growth - Sludge Bomb as neutral coverage absolutely decimates most while Petal Dance tears Chomp and Flygon a new one. The main issue is that you need to sacrifice a lot of power to outspeed Scarf Lati@s, who can literally take a whole Sun team if it goes unchecked (Sucker Punches from Shiftry really help here). The issue with running Growth and Sleep Powder is that you lose a ton of coverage, which you really can't afford to.

Sun teams really do have an issue taking Dragon attacks as the above suggests, and there is not an easy solution. Running Forretress is one - His Fire weakness is so bad even weak HP Fires will kill it anyway, so no need to worry about that, and his spinning and spiking proficiency can be very useful. Ofc then there is the issue of what he can do back to the dragon aside from Toxic, but hey...

 

[kaychi]

Okay, here's a maybe-noobish question. I'm aware that perma-weather being banned (possibly) is a hot topic on Smogon. But I found something and it really bothers me. Let's check Ninetales' BW Analysis:

Though Ninetales is an average Pokemon in many respects, its access to the Drought ability gives it an important role in OU play. Drought is what allows Ninetales to support its entire team with perpetual sun...

Now, let's mosy on over to Sawsbuck's page.

At first, Sawsbuck seems like a weak choice due to the ban of the ability Drought, which robs it of a chance of an easy Speed boost thanks to Chlorophyll.

If Drought, at the moment, isn't banned, why is Sawsbuck's page acting as if it does? The pages just went up, so it's understandable that there might be inconsistencies, but Sawsbuck is my favourite Pokemon right now. I didn't know where to post this, so I thought the weather page for abilities would be the best. If there is a better place to put it, please tell me.
Thanks!

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I think the correct word is "bane" since ninetails kinda sucks as a pokemon. If it didn't have drought it would never see the light of day.

 

[UltiMario]

Absolutely the wrong thread, but the answer is because UU analyses are written with UU in mind, and only OU comments are made if a specific set is labeled for OU. Drought is banned in UU.

 

[Ms. Denbo]

If Drought, at the moment, isn't banned, why is Sawsbuck's page acting as if it does? The pages just went up, so it's understandable that there might be inconsistencies, but Sawsbuck is my favourite Pokemon right now. I didn't know where to post this, so I thought the weather page for abilities would be the best. If there is a better place to put it, please tell me.
Thanks!

Drought and Ninetales are OU, but Sawsbuck is not. I think they mean Drought is banned from the tier that Sawsbuck is typically used in (UU?). So they assume you're using him in UU, where Drought is indeed banned when they write the UU analysis.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

 

[No. 1 Machop Fan]

With weather dominating like it is, I'm surprised Golduck isn't more common, same with Altaria and Lickilicky in DW. All three of those Pokemon have Cloud Nine to negate the weather, which COULD cripple a weather team enough to overcome them.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Ah yes the Sawsbuck analysis for OU isn't uploaded yet, that totally flew over my head.

 

[UltiMario]

So I decided to take a read through this thread.

Holy shit speculation.

I like how so much of the thread was like "Lol Politoed and Ninetales are such shitty mons they'll be like UU/BL lol"

 

[kaychi]

Okay! Thanks for answering my question. It wasn't really clear in the analysis, because usually when I hear "banned" it means banned from OU. But yeah, that definitely makes sense.

 

[Ms. Denbo]

With weather dominating like it is, I'm surprised Golduck isn't more common, same with Altaria and Lickilicky in DW. All three of those Pokemon have Cloud Nine to negate the weather, which COULD cripple a weather team enough to overcome them.

I thought the same thing at first, but I think the key thing is that these Cloud Nine only stops weather while the Pokémon with the ability is in play. So basically, the Pokémon with Cloud Nine can only be effective if:

1) Neutralization of weather can cripple the specific Pokémon.

2) The Pokémon is a counter to the weather abuser.

I think we can all agree Golduck as a counter for nearly any OU threat is kind of a stretch.

As for Altaria, perhaps she could work in the Rain as an anti-wall, stopping Rain Dish, Hydration, etc., but against a Sand team I don't see her being very effective. What would she do? She can take Excadrill's Sand away while she's on the field... then take Rock Slides and die. :( There are a lot of common Sand team Pokémon that are going to destroy Altaria. She's just outclassed, like she was in gen 4, when it comes to OU.

Cloud Nine on Lickilicky that can't use Wish is pretty meh (realized just recently that that is illegal myself, haha) as a Wall, though he does have the movepool and useable attack to take down some weather starters, but unless you have your own weather you want to set up it isn't that helpful since the weather will still be there. And if you have your own weather, it's a better idea to find a way to start it as a counter to other weather rather than use Lickilicky.

There are just better Pokémon that counter weather without Cloud Nine. If it canceled weather completely that'd be one thing, but honestly even with Cloud Nine other Pokémon that counter weather that far outclass Cloud Nine Pokémon in OU.

 

[NijaSkills]

With weather dominating like it is, I'm surprised Golduck isn't more common, same with Altaria and Lickilicky in DW. All three of those Pokemon have Cloud Nine to negate the weather, which COULD cripple a weather team enough to overcome them.

They aren't used because of the fact that Cloud Nine only has effect when they are in (the weather comes back after they leave), and they are all pretty terrible. Golduck just has terrible stats, Altaria is outclassed by every other fully evolved Dragon-type, and is better off with Natural Cure, and Lickilicky, after the explosion nerf, really has nothing to do, and is outclassed by Snorlax. Also, both DW Swablu and Lickitung are released, so they can be used in standard.

 

[No. 1 Machop Fan]

As for Altaria, perhaps she could work in the Rain as an anti-wall, stopping Rain Dish, Hydration, etc., but against a Sand team I don't see her being very effective. What would she do? She can take Excadrill's Sand away while she's on the field... then take Rock Slides and die. :( There are a lot of common Sand team Pokémon that are going to destroy Altaria. She's just outclassed, like she was in gen 4, when it comes to OU.

I understand. But what about in Doubles? If Sandstorm is as common in Doubles as it is in Singles, then maybe Altaria could be paired with some sort of Excadrill counter, such as Lucario or Huge Power Azumarill, to shut it down.

 

[UltiMario]

Because less than 1% of Smogon plays Doubles, nobody cares.

 

[Box]

Because less than 1% of Smogon plays Doubles, nobody cares.

That 1 percent does, so what's wrong with discussion?

 

[Undefinedmaster]

Sadly for Ninetales, it gets Hypnosis through an Egg Move, and I doubt that Egg moves will be on Dream World Pokemon. I would say no Energy Ball, but who needs that when you have 1 Turn Solar Beam?

Actually, some dream world pokemon do have egg moves.

 

[melvni]

I think we can all agree Golduck as a counter for nearly any OU threat is kind of a stretch.

Actually, neutral speed nature Choice Scarf Golduck with no investment outspeeds Excadrill if unboosted by Sand Force, can survive one unboosted adamant life orb earthquake with appropriate investment, and OHKO's 4 hp / 0 SpDef Excadrill with +nature no investment Hydro Pump or 168 SpAtk Surf (Hydro Pump requires 28 EV's to always OHKO that Excadrill with a neutral nature, Surf has an 87% chance to OHKO with max investment and a neutral nature).

I'm not denying Golduck sucks in general or that there are better Excadrill counters, but I enjoy playing devil's advocate sometimes.

Actually, some dream world pokemon do have egg moves.

Congratulations on responding to a post a week away from it's first birthday. >_<

 

[Ms. Denbo]

Haha, I actually like that Golduck a lot. Now that you put it that way, he may very well be the best of the three of them at using Cloud Nine. XD

 

[Heroes Fall]

Best out of three subpar pokemon isn't much though. I wish he had a few new support moves to play around with, he's such an underwhelming offensive threat and a weather changer of your own is probably more effective at controlling weather.

 

[Ms. Denbo]

Yup, but it is pretty cool to be that guy using a Golduck, haha. I'd probably do it; I love using NU in OU.