Accessorize!

[canno]

Gengar makes me happy because its everything I want Rotom to be and more

60/65/55/150/70/140
Gengar @ Magnet
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Magnet is such a fun item. Gengar becomes a monster with Levitate Ghost / Electric, a solid typing. STAB TBolt and Shadow Balls hurt things hard, especially with 150 SpA and 140 Speed.

Also, I'm assuming that even though you don't technically gain stats from having the type you still get the boosts. So things like

Mamoswine @ Never-Melt Ice (110/150/75/90/55/90) Eevee edit: NMI gives +10 Speed
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Freeze-Dry

and

Weavile @ Never-Melt Ice (70/150/60/75/80/135)
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Pursuit / Night Slash / Knock Off
- Ice Shard
- Low Kick / Pursuit / Poison Jab

and even

Kyurem-Black @ Never-Melt Ice (125/190/95/140/85/105)
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SpA / 236 Spe (probably needs a different spread)
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
- Roost / Outrage

can do work

 

[PieRomancer]

Shouldn't adding the item that corresponds with the already primary type of a duel type Pokémon replace the second type still? I mean, we know it's possible since Mega-Aggron is technically Steel/Steel which acts just like normal steel. So, for consistency (and because TEG stated these items with like mega stones) shouldn't we be able to make duel type Pokémon mono-typed? (i.e. Soft Sand Excadrill becomes pure ground, etc.)

 

[G-Luke]

I also believe so too. Just 4 consistency. But by the way, this meta is so good, I'm making a couple teams 4 tommorow.

 

[jackm]

As a stall player, the two obvious accessories that stick out are Cherish Ball and Metal Coat. They both grant heaps of boosts into both defenses and a great secondary defensive typing. However, I figure that we should look at the other accessories to see what else has potential.

• Charcoal: Nope. Subtracts out of defenses (although this is mostly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things) and gives Fire, which sucks defensively.
• Spell Tag: Perhaps...It subtracts out of defenses, but Ghost is a very useful defensive typing when in conjunction with Normal, Dark, and Steel. I could see this being useful, perhaps on something like Snorlax. It's worth noting that the Dark weakness isn't going to be nearly as important in this meta as it usually is, as--similar to the case of Mix and Mega--Knock Off is going to lose a ton of usage.
• Mystic Water: This definitely has potential. +30 SpD is great, and Water can form excellent combos with Dragon, Steel, or Ground. Latias could be good with this, as it gets access to Surf.
• Hard Stone: Eehhhhh. It's the physical counterpart to Mystic Water, but Rock just isn't as useful as Water for sponging hits. It could be useful for helping things tank hits from Sharp Beak sweepers, though.
• Magnet: Super offensive, but Electric is kind of cool. I don't really know about this one.
• Sharp Beak: The only real advantage I can see of using it on stall is on a bulky Steel-Type to build a pseudo-Skarmory. Still, its boosts are ill-applied for a tank.
• Twisted Spoon: Ew.
• Silver Powder: Also Ew.
• Silk Scarf: So-so if you look at it alone, but totally outclassed by another accessory in whatever it wants to do.
• Soft Sand: The boosts are meh, but Ground is an awesome typing to pair with loads of others. I can see this being useful less for full-on walls but more for hard-hitting tanks. Dragonite with this is like a fucking Zygarde on steroids.
• Miracle Seed: Decent boosts, but Grass is a tricky type to make work. Still, I think it has potential for helping to check Magnet- and Mystic Water-users.
• Poison Barb: You know, it could work. Better than Miracle Seed IMO, because its weaknesses are easier to cover up. Poison/Dark is solid, especially against Special Attackers. Hydregion has no weaknesses and reliable recovery, off the top of my head.
• Dragon Fang: It's a shame that the boosts are ill-allocated, because Dragon is a great defensive typing. STAB on Dragon Tail is pretty nice for the metric fuckton of Pokemon which get it. I bet Milotic could work with Rest/Sleep Talk/Dragon Tail/Scald.
• Never Melt Ice: Aw hell naw
• Black Glasses: Maybe? It gives a boost in Special Defense, so maybe slap it on a Poison-type for a good Psyshock-immune special tank. Unfortunately, if you want to make use of the boost, you kind of have to use Dark Pulse. Foul Play would work too, if that's your cup of tea.
• Black Belt: I mean, Fighting can be a cool defensive type, and thankfully it's a Def boost and not a SpD boost. If anything, the Resistance to SR is cool. Being weak to all of the inevitable Sharp Beak shit and Cherish Ball Moonblasts/Dazzling Gleams will suck though, so this is probably best used on a purely physical tank. Golurk sounds like a cool user, between a sick Ghost/Fighting defensive typing and No Guard Dynamicpunches.

 

[Uselesscrab]

Spell Tag Porygon-Z could be cool! It gets 160 base SpA with good neutral coverage, only one weakness, and Adaptability. A threat to watch out for, certainly. Tyranitar, Bisharp, and the occasional users of Hard Stone and Black Glasses stop it, but it does get a wide movepool that could allow it to bypass traditional counters.

On the opposite side, Cherish Ball Blissey looks like a solid wall. It misses out on the Eviolite boosts of OU Chansey, but takes on only uncommon weaknesses in exchange for a precious Fighting neutrality. Fun!

edit: and 255/35/160 defenses are quite impressive.

edit 2: realized Chopin already mentioned the above Pory-Z. Oh well.

 

[Iura]

So someone always haves to mention this because someone always does.

What happens when I give Shuckle Metal Coat or Chansey TwistedSpoon?

 

[MattL]

Good meta; hopefully it gets implemented! I originally thought BO would be one of the strongest playstyles here, but then I realized that people probably wouldn't have as much speed control on offense because people will be spamming these items. Trick Room sounded fun but it sucks, so here's some rain.

Team

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rest
- Encore
- Toxic

Starmie @ Magnet
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Noivern @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- Taunt

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rain Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Dragonite @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Outrage

And here's the teambuilding:

Teambuilding

For rain, Damp Rock is still way better than every other item. Politoed doesn't have the stats to run a really good offensive set and having 3 extra turns per switch-in is better than improving Politoed's defensive typing, so the standard set is best. Not sure what the meta will be like so EVs can be shifted around accordingly, so physically defensive is a good start.

I really don't think there will be enough fast things to where Timid is better than Modest. This Starmie outspeeds everything up to and including positively-natured base 127s, and I don't think very many things will hit that mark when almost everything will probably be holding one of these items. Anyway, you don't really need any coverage outside of those three moves, and having a spinner is really nice for this team, with Dragonite and all.

I wanted something with Hurricane to complete the wallbreaking core with Starmie, and Noivern fits well. I know Flamethrower seems weird but Ferrothorn (and lead Metal Coat Shedinja) suck and you're obviously often not going to be in rain. I wanted Taunt because otherwise this team could struggle a bit more with Stall, although you could replace it with Focus Blast; this team doesn't have a Fighting move, but that's okay because I don't expect fat mono-Normal types to be much of a thing.

Ferrothorn is so obvious for a teamslot here. Again, not sure what the meta is going to be like so the EVs will probably have to be adjusted. Metal Coat is such a perfect item for Ferrothorn on several levels, but I still actually think Leftovers will be better despite a little less bulky and sometimes slightly weaker Gyro Balls because this team really relies on Ferrothorn as a defensive pivot.

I needed a Swift Swimmer, and I really like Earthquake in this meta because a lot of fat things carry Metal Coat. Swampert does a ton of things that the first four are unable to do. Like I mentioned with Starmie, I'm pretty sure Swampert will be able to outspeed pretty much everything. I think Rain Dance and Ice Punch are both better than Superpower, but it's an option.

For the last slot I wanted something preferably with priority, but could also boost both in case of some really fat stuff, or as a good late-game sweeper because so far the team is just wallbreakers + support mons. I know that Dragonite is the only non-Smeargle mon that gets Surf, Thunder, and Hurricane and that I'm not running them even though this is a rain team, but especially because I have Starmie and Noivern, this set is better for this team. Soft Sand isn't a bad choice, but especially due to how many wallbreakers this team has, I felt that Espeed is the most valuable part of this set, even though most of the Silk Scarf boost is wasted (it gives +10 Attack though!)

Here's another variation of the team which I actually think is better:

Hide

The old team is a bit fighting weak. This Mew set (which replaces Ferrothorn) is a strange choice because it's fairly passive, but it's an amazing answer to a lot of things:

Mew @ Cherish Ball
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
- Will-O-Wisp
- Psychic

With this, I don't think you need Flamethrower on Noivern anymore because the team now beats everything Flamethrower is supposed to hit. You could replace it with Rain Dance and then replace Swampert's Rain Dance with Superpower. However, the following is a possible replacement for that Noivern:

Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Dark Pulse
- Taunt
- Rain Dance

Noivern's Boomburst is quite a bit stronger than this Tornadus's Hurricane, but the new Noivern is walled by Rock and Steel types. Despite this, I still think it's worth it to have Superpower on Swampert and put Rain Dance on something else.

 

[LightningLord2]

Flygon @ Silk Scarf
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Nature: Hasty / Timid
Ability: Levitate
-Boomburst
-Earth Power
-Fire Blast / Superpower
-U-Turn

A nasty mixed sweeper which no longer dies to random Ice Beams. Fire Blast is most reliable against Steels while Superpower deals with Chansey. Mind you it's Ground/Normal, not Dragon/Normal.

Blissey @ Cherish Ball
252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SpD
Nature: Bold
Ability: Natural Cure
-Heal Bell
-Softboiled
-Seismic Toss / Dazzling Gleam
-Thunder Wave

Blissey finally gets a chance to infuriate people again - she has more defense than Chansey and a half-decent Special Attack. She even gets a rather useful STAB, too.

Blissey @ Spell Tag
252 Def / 4 HP / 252 SpA
Nature: Bold / Modest
Ability: Natural Cure
-Calm Mind
-Shadow Ball
-Dazzling Gleam / Focus Blast
-Softboiled / Rest

Doesn't tank physical hits as well, but has a really nice defensive typing and enough offensive power to make good use of Calm Mind. Dazzling Gleam vs. Focus Blast is about reliable accuracy vs. more power and coverage (Mind you Ghost/Fighting coverage is ineffective against Normal/Ghost). Soft-Boiled maintains offensive pressure, while Rest lets you heal status and you can abuse Natural Cure in an emergency.

 

[1nvalid]

How will Transform/Imposter interact with these items.

 

[zerobreaker000]

Metal Coat Cofagrigus seems like it could be fun. Sure, it loses out on Leftovers, but Ghost/Steel is a pretty good defensive typing and Mummy continues to screw over opponents that rely on abilities. Shame it doesn't get any Steel STAB, though. Cherish Ball gives it even less weaknesses, but less resistances as well.

Meanwhile, there really aren't much items that benefit Bisharp, are there? Metal Coat doesn't really help its fraility, and the speed loss is really not worth it; Black Belt does make its Low Kicks mcuh more powerful, and the 4x weakness to Fairy is somewhat better than 4x to Fighting-type, but it's going to have a harder time setting up or swtiching into Defog; Sharp Beak actually makes its base Speed reach 100, which is great, but Aerial Ace as the only STAB? Ugh. Oh, and Silver Powder might work as a middle point between Black Belt and Sharp Beak I guess, that, and Dark/Bug is an awesome typing.

Miracle Seed Quagsire also looks like it could be an instant stop to many set-up sweepers, lacking the 4x Grass weaknesses, better overall bulk and equal Atk and SpA to make use of Scald.

 

[Isa Simple]

Zoroark @ Silver Powder
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Sucker Punch
- U-Turn
- Extrasensory
- Pursuit

60/130/70/120/50/120
I feel like Zoroark will be decent in this meta. Not only would your opponent have a guess whether you have Zoroark in or not, they will also have to figure out what type your Zoroark is. Charcoal is another great option for nice mixed stats and a powerful Flamethrower, as is Spell Tag but for STAB Shadow Ball. Zoroark could also potentially carry some strong boosting moves for whichever route it take, such as Swords Dance, Nasty Plot and Agility. Even this set here could change plenty of moves around for gems like Swords Dance, and Knock Off. This set aims to be a fast pivot, racking up chip damage using the utility of Illusion with STAB Pursuit and U-Turn. Sucker Punch is a powerful priority move with STAB, and extrasensory allows you to hit physical walls and grants near perfect neutral coverage.

 

[xJownage]

There are two viable items for Porygon-Z here. Be happy Porygon-Z fans (myself included).

Porygon-Z @ Spell Tag/Twistedspoon
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Agility
- Nasty Plot/coverage
- Shadow Ball/Psyshock (depends on item)
- Tri Attack

One similarity this will give is both has 160 Special Attack. Adding a type means it'll gain more STAB for Adaptability.

I would rather personally make this a speed boosting type like the Magnet so you can get to base 120 and abuse either nasty plot or not having to boost speed to outpace most of offense. By doing such you open up an extra slot to fix your normal/electric coverage.

Eevee General you have basically created Mix-and-Mega lite. I really like this metagame. I do have a few questions. What is the reasoning behind keeping the secondary typing if you add ground to landorus? In terms of mega evolutions, Maggron adds steel to its typing to eliminate the secondary one, so if you add ground secondary typing to Landorus it wouldn't become broken double ground, but mono ground. Secondly, Do you think item clause is a good idea? This will probably be a very balanced metagame with it, but sheddy stall can be incredibly dominant without an item clause's presence.

I'll post some sets later.

 

[EV]

So someone always haves to mention this because someone always does.

What happens when I give Shuckle Metal Coat or Chansey TwistedSpoon?

Incompatible.

How will Transform/Imposter interact with these items.

I'm guessing it copies the target's new typing and stats ... Pikachuun how would that work?

Eevee General you have basically created Mix-and-Mega lite. I really like this metagame. I do have a few questions. What is the reasoning behind keeping the secondary typing if you add ground to landorus? In terms of mega evolutions, Maggron adds steel to its typing to eliminate the secondary one, so if you add ground secondary typing to Landorus it wouldn't become broken double ground, but mono ground. Secondly, Do you think item clause is a good idea? This will probably be a very balanced metagame with it, but sheddy stall can be incredibly dominant without an item clause's presence.

Actually when I started working on this I called it MegaLite after a quip Flint made in our convo. I decided to stray away from the Mega angle, however, after making the type/stat changes inherent instead of requiring a turn to "MegaLite Evolve." That's why I didn't allow duplicate types to override secondary typing because these items are not Mega Stones and they don't behave like them (with the exception of Koff/Trick immunity.) I'll talk to Adrian Marin and E4 Flint about it and about an item clause though.

Metal Coat Cofagrigus seems like it could be fun. Sure, it loses out on Leftovers, but Ghost/Steel is a pretty good defensive typing and Mummy continues to screw over opponents that rely on abilities. Shame it doesn't get any Steel STAB, though. Cherish Ball gives it even less weaknesses, but less resistances as well.

I prefer this

@

85 / 100 / 147 / 58 / 100 / 44
- Leech Seed
- Will-O-Wisp
- Gyro Ball
- Protect / Phantom Force / Filler

Also what do you guys think of these wall and stallbreakers?

@

78 / 95 / 56 / 75 / 56 / 100
Belly Drum+Extreme Speed+STAB Shadow Claw. Save your BD, you only get one!

@

65 / 125 / 72 / 100 / 75 / 98
Belly Drum+Mach Punch. Same as above but with the benefit of smashing through Steels before setup.

@

79 / 105 / 60 / 175 / 95 / 106
No more Stealth Rock weakness! Taunt+Nasty Plot+Thunderbolt+Dark Pulse will be hard to wall. (Actually all the genies and their formes do really well in this metagame, both offensively, defensively, and somewhere in the middle. See Metal Coat Tornadus-T, Black Belt Thundurus-I and Tornadus-I.)

@

80 / 190 / 75 / 170 / 120 / 85
STAB Drain Punch. Gunk Shot for Fairies.

@

/

/

/

Lots of options. Black Belt grants the biggest Attack boost (86) with STAB Hammer Arm. Sharp Beak gives the most Speed (108, tied with Magnet) and STAB Bounce. Silver Powder is a nice combination between Speed (93) and Attack (81) with STAB U-turn, but like Sharp Beak it grants a SR weakness. Magnet is interesting. It gives the same Speed as Sharp Beak, no Attack increase, but STAB Wild Charge.

Yeah, don't discount offense just yet!

 

[Ghoul King]

Grumpig, Vespiquen, and Mismagius all look like interesting Hard Stone users to me. STAB Power Gem with legitimately decent types, with Mismagius in particular acting as a hard stop to Talonflame. (Grumpig resents U-Turn while Vespiquen is merely neutral to the STABs) Vespiquen is the one most happy with the stat distribution -the other two really resent the loss to Speed and care nothing for the Attack boost- while Grumpig is probably the overall bulkiest of the bunch, but Mismagius' Levitate+Ghost typing means the only weaknesses gained are to Grass, Water, and Steel.

Starmie and Slowking arguably have potential as well, but Water/Rock are really painful typings, and Starmie intensely resents the loss to Speed.

Malamar running the Black Belt goes from its current godawful typing that's doubly weak to U-Turn to STAB on Superpower!!... and doubly weak to Fairy!!! Being Malamar is suffering.

Aerodactyl is enraged by the intersection of its typing and movepool. Dragon Claw is its only halfway decent attack that doesn't involve picking up some horrific double weakness, to priority at that! (Soft Sand for Earthquake? Aqua Jet. Dark Glasses for Crunch? Mach Punch. Metal Coat for Iron Head? Mach Punch again, not to mention being doubly weak to Ground)

Soft Sand Granbull looks cool. STAB on Earthquake, and Fairy/Ground is both a nifty defensive type and an excellent offensive pairing.

Metagross is so glad that it's Steel/Psychic. Personally, Soft Sand looks like its general best bet. Steel/Ground is a fun typing. Sharp Beak Metagross is vaguely nifty too, I guess, but shooting up to 100 Speed is kind of a bad joke, and Aerial Ace STAB is pretty meh. You'd be better off with Metagrossite, in all likelihood.

Miracle Seed Ninetales looks like a nifty wallbreaker. Dropping to 90 Speed hurts against offense, but eh. Alternatively, Twisted Spoon for Psyshock STAB, though how good that is depends on what other 'mons like to run.

OH GOD IT'S THE RETURN OF DARK DEATH DIGGERSBY. At least you can't Scarf it, and Normal/Dark is an awful typing, but seriously, Dark Death Diggersby is ridiculous anyway. And it learns Agility! (Though that doesn't help against Mach Punch)

I anticipate Metal Coat Hitmontop being a thing. STAB Bullet Punch (Add Technician, murder Fairies that didn't add Steel), covers all its normal weaknesses, doubly resist Stealth Rock....

 

[canno]

PRAISE THE SUN

Volcarona @ TwistedSpoon (85/60/55/150/115/115)
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Psychic
- Bug Buzz
- Fire Blast / Hidden Power Ground

Bug / Psychic has some pretty nifty coverage together, and defensively could be a lot worst (especially with Knock Off not being as prevalent). The main thing that resists Bug and Psychic is Steel-types, which get blasted by either Fire Blast or HP Ground. The best part is that this doesn't need to set-up to be a threat - 150 SpA is crazy strong and 115 is fast enough that it could potentially sweep without setting up. It's physical defense is really bad now, but Volcarona had always had that problem - at least now it could actually switch into Close Combats and take it well. Flame Body also helps deter physical attacks, as most of them make contact. Meanwhile on the special side Volcarona is as bulky as ever, especially after a QD. Other item include Charcoal, which make for a much stronger standard Volcarona, Sharp Beak for speed and Hurricane spam, although Bug / Flying isn't that good and you get a useless +20 to Attack, and more defensive stones like Metal Coat, Cherrish Ball, and Black Glasses (I know it's weird to think of this as more defensive, but Bug / Dark is a pretty cute defenisve typing) with Roost and QD. Metal Coat in particular is cute because Bug / Steel is a really cool typing. While we're talking about scary special sweepers...

Manaphy @ Miracle Seed (100/100/115/120/115/90)
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Energy Ball
- Rain Dance / Ice Beam

Hey look its Hidden Type all over again! Yes, Water / Grass Manaphy is still a threat. With its current spread, I believe it's basically the same as old Manaphy (it has around the same as standard 160+ Manaphy while the extra bulk makes up for the lack of HP EVs), except now it has a second STAB in Energy Ball, which has pretty good coverage with Scald. The main thing I don't like about this set is that it loses its Fire resist, but it can get it back if it gets up a Rain Dance. Ice Beam can be used over Rain Dance if you want coverage but I think Rain Dance + TG + 2 STABs is a lot better. Manaphy can also run a lot of other items - Metal Coat gives it Water / Steel and gets 100/125/125 bulk which makes it easier to set-up. With Metal Coat Rest becomes a really good option with Rain Dance for pseudo-recovery. The same thing can be said about Cherrish Ball, although that might want to use Dazzling Gleam over Rest. TwistedSpoon and Psychic are also not a bad idea, giving it a good speed stat of 115 and 125 SpA. The only other ideas that come to mind are Spell Tag, Charcoal, and Never-Melt Ice but I think the other options are overall better.

 

[Pikachuun]

I'm guessing it copies the target's new typing and stats ... Pikachuun how would that work?

Good question. If I were to take an educated guess as to what the capabilities of coding are, it would apply the stat changes + typing dynamically. In other words, say you have a Tornadus with Metal Coat, and a Ditto with Cherish Ball. When Ditto transforms into Tornadus, the transformed Ditto's Cherish Ball would still carry over as if Ditto was a Tornadus to begin with. If that doesn't work, it would just copy the target's new typing.

 

[SpartanMalice]

I'm surprised no one except Ghoul King mentioned Starmie. I'd wager most of the Magnet users are 110ish. Starmie can abuse either Magnet with 120 SpA and 145 Speed, maybe Metal Coat for a nice defensive typing (it also access to flash cannon) + recover and spin. NevermeltIce similarly for Ice Stab, but water/ice kinda sucks. Mystic Water loses out on speed but gains an odd, Volcarona like stat spread.

Also, can we still use regular items? It's never explicity mentioned, but Ferrothorn's threat desc mentions that it's gonna miss out on leftovers. Probably might be better to mention that earlier.

Me and cellgoondude were talking about some stuff earlier. Rhyperior seems good with certain items. Maybe Metal Coat? Unlike Steelix, it can actually hit back.

 

[Dr. Phd. BJ]

I'm curious about how stall will turn out in the metagame. A theorized set was Cresselia Adrian's Dream. Holding Metal Coat / Cherish Ball, Cress has a nice 120 / 145 / 155 bulk, not to mention a great typing in Psychic / Steel (or Fairy). It seems like a good Calm Mind sweeper that is hard to break.

Hide

Cresselia (F) @ Metal Coat
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Moonblast

 

[Pappali the Piper]

Here are some type combos that I've thought about:

Medicham @ Sharp Beak (

)
60/80/70/60/70/110
- Though it is as frail as ever and lacks a Flying STAB, this combination gives Medicham a combination of power and speed that's very interesting indeed. 80 base attack with Pure Power and is equivalent to a fully invested base 186 with Jolly and a fully invested base 209 with Adamant. All of that with a very solid 110 base speed.

Gyarados @ Soft Sand (

)
95/155/89/70/90/81
- Stab EQ with a single weakness to Grass. Intimidate means it can check a lot of stuff.

Dragonite @ Metal Coat (

)
91/134/120/100/125/70
- Dayum those are some nice stats. Has Roost, utility in Dragon Tail, STAB in Iron Head, and a lot of good coverage options. It's 2/3 of Dragon-Fairy-Steel, also has Multiscale.

Eelektross @ Poison Barb (

)
85/135/95/105/95/40
- Electric/Poison is an amazing typing. Levitate leaves it with only 1 weakness and 8 relevant resistances, including Flying, Fighting, Fairy, Steel and Electric. Has interesting moves in Coil, Acid Spray, and a lot of coverage moves. No recovery or physical Poison STAB sucks though. Weezing can do the same with less offensive presence but more physical Def and access to Will-o-Wisp and Pain Split.

Chandelure @ Metal Coat (

)
60/55/115/145/115/70
- All hail Aegislash 2.0. With Flash Fire, it has a whopping 4 immunities and 9 resists, loses the SR weakness and can serve as an offensive check to a lot of things. Really appreciates Knock Off being less common, and has Will-o-Wisp to deal with physical switch-ins.

All in all, I'm starting to think this will be a very fun meta. Since it is very well-built, it will be hard to come up with really broken stuff like in MnM. Kudos to Eevee General for making this.

 

[jackm]

Some random set ideas:


Aurorus @ Magnet
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Thunderbolt
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock / Toxic / Filler

Resists Boltbeam, gets STAB on Boltbeam, might be decent. We'll see.

Staraptor @ Black Belt
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe (or a faster build, perhaps)
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Defog / U-Turn

Black Belt Staraptor looks like a fantastic physically bulky pivot. Flying/Fighting is a great typing for tanking physical hits, and Intimidate gives it loads of opportunities to force a switch and launch off a high-powered attack.

Metagross @ Soft Sand
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Explosion / Grass Knot / Filler

Like Excadrill, but with priority. Ultimately, I think its real utility comes from the fact that defensive teams will likely make loads of use of Cherish Balls and Metal Coats, thereby including typings into their teams which are A. resisted by Metagross and B. hit supereffectively by its STABS.

Magnezone @ Charcoal
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Metal Sound

Hoo boy, I like the sound of this one. Steel-types are going to be all over the place, and Electric+Fire should hit most of them for SE damage (Dragon/Steel types are the most obvious exception). Metal Sound is mostly just filler, but it allows you to de-boost whatever the dominant CMing Fairy/Steel-type ends up being (you know it's coming, and it's going to be a bitch to deal with--Clefable and Jirachi seem the most likely contenders to me) and do a number to it with a STAB HP Fire.

Crawdaunt @ Black Belt
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crabhammer
- Superpower
- Aqua Jet

Pretty simple, it just looked cool. I have no idea whether it'll be good, but +1 STAB Adaptability Superpower+Crabhammer seems like it'll be tough to sponge.

 

[Ghoul King]

Staraptor @ Black Belt
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe (or a faster build, perhaps)
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Defog / U-Turn

Black Belt Staraptor looks like a fantastic physically bulky pivot. Flying/Fighting is a great typing for tanking physical hits, and Intimidate gives it loads of opportunities to force a switch and launch off a high-powered attack.

It's not Tornadus or Noivern, the only two primary Flying types in the game. That's Normal/Fighting, aka Mega Lopunny without Scrappy. Or Fake Out. Or an amazing Speed tier.

 

[G-Luke]

It's not Tornadus or Noivern, the only two primary Flying types in the game. That's Normal/Fighting, aka Mega Lopunny without Scrappy. Or Fake Out. Or an amazing Speed tier.

Ghoul King. You forgot something even more important

Aurorus @ Magnet
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Thunderbolt
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock / Toxic / Filler

Resists Boltbeam, gets STAB on Boltbeam, might be decent. We'll see.

P
primary typing os rock, not Ice. No resistance of Boltbeam. Only STAB on Tbolt. Its a better typing defensively, and its basically the same set, just has different weaker STAB.

 

[jackm]

Oh jesus fuck I messed that up badly

As a side note (and flimsy excuse for making those mistakes) I think for some reason all of the typings on our Pokedex are inverted. Aurorus shows up as Ice/Rock, and Staraptor shows up as (admittedly, this should have tipped me off) Flying/Normal. That should probably get fixed.

 

[xJownage]

@ Black Belt


Dark/Fighting is much better coverage, but the main perk is base 155 attack without life orb recoil and the continuation of its defiant prowess. Its new typing is very weak to fairy but has very few checks due to iron head still hitting pretty hard. It obviously loses to steel/fairies, but this thing absolutely good vs offense.

@ Silk Scarf
@ Metal Coat
@ Black Belt
@ Soft Sand

All 3 are solid options, getting rid of Dnite's useless flying type. Normal gives it stab extremespeed, although it has quite a few weaknesses, and makes it both a great revenge killer and cleaner with high power. Metal Coat gives it tons of bulk and the treasured Dragon/Steel typing, while it retains the coverage to hit other steels and the inevitable steel/fairies that will plague this metagame. Black Belt adds STAB Superpower and a nice attack boost, which is actually great on Dnite because Superpower will hit very hard after a boost. Soft Sand is only viable in a traditional sense because of the presence of steel/fairies that will try to switch into a boosting Dnite not knowing what set it is. Multiscale makes this a potential staple of this metagame, as it is in so many OMs.

@ Magnet
@ Black Belt

The savior of offense vs stall, Magnet gains a nice speed boost and has a lot of power for special sets, while black belt has a nice physical boost. Neither are ideal because it's not secondary dark, but the former especially can do work against stall.

@ Black Glasses
@ Black Belt

Again, powerful pivot and rock setter that has a nice typing and great coverage. Ground/Dark is already very potent as we see from krookodile, and to be more bulky and MUCH more powerful alongside a better movepool is very nice. Regular sets such as scarf are still very viable the way this meta is shaping up so far. Leave defensive sets to its normal forme or other, better mons; the lack of lefties recovery is very painful.

@ Miracle Seed
@ Nevermeltice

Miracle seed gives stab energy ball and goes the bulk route, having 100/115/115 and a great defensive typing, especially for this metagame where flying moves will be uncommon. Nevermeltice is a more offensive route that has good speed and great power for a very small sacrifice in bulk, and the typing is not bad. Stab Ice is obviously great as it is in every other meta.

@ Blackglasses
@ Dragon Fang
@ Charcoal

Serperior has many viable sets, since the spA boost is incredibly useful and the ability to change type is nice too, gaining stab on something else. Blackglasses gives nice boosts, Dragon Fang adds stab dragon, Charcoal adds stab HP fire which could be really useful alongside that +25 spA. I would recommend using a speed boosting item if possible; its speed is one of its biggest perks and I have a feeling speed tiers for fastmons are going to be very high.

@ Magnet

Best offensive spinner in the meta, hands down. Use this thing. Good power, great speed, manageable bulk, great typing offensively and defensively, tons of utility. I'm very happy we finally have a meta where offense will have reliable hazard removal. This thing will also define fastmons in this tier.

@ Magnet
@ Twisted Spoon
@ Blackglasses
@ Metal Coat
@ Black Belt

Such a versatile offensive mon in all tiers, and this tier only makes it better. Retaining Prankster Thunder Wave is huge for both offense and balance, and its good movepool makes it a perfect mon in this meta. Magnet is an all around power boost and the typing may catch people by surprise. TwistedSpoon gives it 150 SpA and 126 Spe, making it a great Nasty Plot abuser with stab Psychic. Blackglasses has stab Dark Pulse for less speed, also gaining some physical bulk. Metal coat is a surprise choice that would catch a lot of opponents off guard, while having a wonderful typing, stab flash cannon, prankster twave, and decent bulk. Black Belt has stab Superpower, no surprises there, and is a go to for physical sets.

@ Metal Coat

Iron Tail isn't a great stab, but this thing's bulk is amazing and it can coil against a very large portion of the meta. Dragon/Steel is going to be a great typing and this mons' ability to beat both stall and offense with its bulk and ability to boost means it is a major threat.

@ Silk Scarf

Stab explosion + hazards + taunt + decent power. Cool HO lead for pimps who don't want to be mainstream, and that's a good thing. It can probably run other sets with the ability to better its stats, but its lack of bulk holds it back in other roles.

@ Soft Sand

You thought this was scary for stall before? Moldy EQ is good as ever, and with stab and even more power, this thing is absolutely devastating vs stall teams and has the power to do work against offense as well. Overall a great stallbreaker in this metagame, especially since steel spam will be prevalent.

@ Charcoal
@ Magnet
@ Spell Tag

Yeah this thing has TONS of potential. Mainly its potential resides in its extreme versatility, as it can run a myriad of sets while retaining stab dark and all kinds of coverage. It can go mixed, full physical, full special, pivot, and do almost everything. Losing STAB Draco hurts, but you won't be running this for Draco Meteor.



Other mons with potential:
Gyarados (hard rock? limited physical movepool isn't fun)
Heatran (all kinds of typings are possible and flash fire will give it switches, while the unpredictability will make it a nice rock setter for balance)
Hippowdon (Its already massive bulk and reliable recovery could make it really good, and the right typing will do some serious work)
Mew (because it can run anything)
Slurpuff (stab drain punch and more bulk or something else? Belly Drummers unpredictability could be a huge asset, even without sitrus)
Salamence (Intimidate/moxie is a great ability combo and this could run a bunch of sets with its movepool)
Tyrantrum (A type change for some more speed or bulk would be really nice for it, and in general its dragon typing isn't very helpful besides outrage).

This is fun. I like how anything can combo anything without becoming ridiculous. Hopefully this gets coded soon. Anyways, How would Meloetta work with relic song? Would Fighting override the secondary typing and it get the item boost?

Note that some of my ideas were stolen while i was making this post xD

 

[jackm]

While Zygarde is a good option for Metal Coat, I think Dragonite is definitely also up there and arguably superior as a boosting Dragon/Steel type. If we look at the two set skeletons:

Zygarde @ Metal Coat
- Coil
- Iron Tail
- Rest / Dragon Tail
- Sleep Talk / Extremespeed / Earthquake / whatever

Dragonite @ Metal Coat
- Dragon Dance
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Dragon Claw / Extremespeed / Earthquake / whatever

Obviously the Defense boost from Coil is really quite handy for absorbing attacks, but considering your bulk (108/146/120, or 91/120/125 if you use Dragonite) you're probably going to easily tank a single hit regardless. The key is Zygarde's lack of reliable recovery; if you want to run anything other than mono coverage, you can't afford to run RestTalk and so you'll get worn down easily. In addition, your lack of speed boosts (unless, of course, you opt to use Dragon Dance instead of Coil) and comparatively low speed means that if you run up against something that you can't kill with Extremespeed on offense, chances are it's getting a pretty decent chunk out of you.

However, Dragonite has Multiscale (as compared to Zygarde's useless Aura Break) and reliable recovery, which gives it enormous staying power. Yes, its bulk is significantly weaker from a stat perspective, but the aforementioned two factors enable it to deal with Pokes that Zygarde would feel far more pressure from, as a 3HKO spells death for Zygarde even if it opts to use RestTalk. Also, it's important to note that by using Roost instead of RestTalk you gain a free slot to use coverage or Extremespeed. Having access to Extremespeed along with Multiscale and Roost means that Dragonite can tank through Superpowers and Close Combats from Pokes faster than it which switch in (assuming, of course, that you begin at full HP) and then exploit the Defense drop to snipe them with Extremespeed.

Finally, although it isn't a big deal if you're planning to get a bunch of boosts, Dragonite's base 129 Attack is significantly larger than Zygarde's base 95 Attack.