Aerodactyl [4N]

[Shimrit As]

This is a variation on the current Lead Aerodactyl. Although the four moves used are identical, the very different EV spread allows this set to accomplish many different things from the standard one. I have conducted thorough testing on this and have found that it is able to complete its job extremely efficiently. I hope everyone will actually read and consider before questioning its viability. If it doesn't merit its own set in the analysis, I at least hope that the EV spread can be adopted.

[SET]
name: Non-Suicide Lead
move 1: Stealth rock
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Stone edge
move 4: Earthquake / Toxic
item: Babiri Berry
nature: Jolly
evs: 248 HP / 12 Def / 112 SpD / 136 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Aerodactyl has long established itself as a suicidal Stealth Rock lead, with its blazing base 130 Speed and access to Taunt; however, its effectiveness is hampered by the extreme necessity of prediction. Against leads like Swampert and Metagross, it can choose to either taunt the opponent's Stealth Rock, risking an attack, or set down Stealth Rock on the first turn, with no way of preventing the pointed stones being set-up on your own side of the field. This set aims to combat that drawback without compromising its own utility as a rapid Stealth-Rocker.</p>

<p>An early Stealth Rock is extremely important for both offensive and stall-based teams, although Aerodactyl performs better on the former. Taunt prevents slower leads like Forretress, Metagross, Swampert and even Azelf from setting up their own entry hazards or dual screens, and unlike the standard suicide set, a misfired Taunt need not mean the end. Stone Edge and Earthquake have good neutral coverage, although Toxic has been slashed in to better deal with Gliscor and Swampert. The increased power of Stone Edge over Rock Slide makes it a better option, given the lack of attack EVs. For example, Rock Slide will never OHKO Salamence after Stealth Rock damage, while Stone Edge always will.</p>

<p>The EVs are what set this variant of Aerodactyl apart from the standard lead set. Firstly, the Speed EVs have been lowered to outspeed positive-natured base 115s, with the most significant member of that tier being Naive Azelf. This means that Aerodactyl is able to taunt it before Azelf gets a chance to set-up Stealth Rock or dual screens. Between the speed stat attained from maxing speed (394) and the current stat (363), nothing of note is missed out on. Weavile, with its base 125 speed, often has priority in terms of Fake Out and Ice Shard to beat Aerodactyl with, while settling for risky speed ties with Jolteon and opposing Aerodactyl aren't worth 116 EV points.</p>

<p>Next, people often tend to overlook Aerodactyl's defensive potential. Its valuable resistance to fire and immunity to ground, two common attacking types, not only mean that lead Heatran and Hippowdon are completely shut down, but also provide it with many avenues to switch back in after doing its job as a lead. Its base 80 HP and 75 SpD also lend it decent special bulk. With 248 HP EVs and 112 SpD EVs, Standard MixPert's Ice Beam will never 2HKO, which means Aerodactyl can Taunt the first down and Stealth Rock the second turn, while still surviving to either inflict a suicidal status or switch out. Since Stealth Rock has not been set-up on your side of the field, Aerodactyl is free to switch back in on a ground attack or after another team member has been killed. It is in a similary situation with Azelf, though if Psychic has a small chance to 2HKO. With the current investment into its defences, few leads have the ability to OHKO Aerodactyl, let alone net a 2HKO, making Focus Sash a worthless item. The Babiri Berry fits extremely well on this set because when coupled with 12 Def EVs, standard lead Metagross must roll exactly max damage twice for Bullet Punch to 2HKO. It also means that Jolly Scarf Jirachi's Iron Head will leave you with at 50% of your health, as opposed to 1% with a Focus Sash equipped. As a final note, Aerodactyl's HP investment is left at 248 EV points to round down residual damage, useful as it will likely find chances to return to the battlefield.</p>

<p>Aerodactyl is a good choice to partner Pokemon that dislike Stealth Rock, such as Gyarados and Salamence, because it can almost guarantee that the opposing lead will be unable to set it up. Teams that have problems with heavy offence also benefit from Aerodactyl's ability to shut down dual screen leads like Azelf and Bronzong. By laying down an early Stealth Rock, it also enhances the effectiveness of wall-breakers like Salamence and Tyranitar or late-game sweepers like Lucario and Empoleon, by wearing down their counters from the start of the game. Unlike the standard suicide lead though, it isn't dead weight after setting up its entry hazard, and can be used to continually shut down stall teams or take on threats like Scarf Heatran and MixMence if ever required.</p>

<p>There are still a few leads that Aerodactyl loses to. Although Choice Band Mamoswine can never OHKO, it will definintely 2HKO, so a misfired taunt might be punished. Opposing lead Aerodactyl will likely win the mirror match-up, while Choice Scarf Jirachi also threatens to flinch Aerodactyl to death with Iron Head. Packing a Forretress will help as it can help take on all three, hitting the former two with STAB Gyro Ball while setting-up additional entry hazards spikes on the latter. It also lures fire-typed moves that Aerodactyl can easily switch back into, and use that chance to lay down Stealth Rock, if it had been previously denied the chance. Once Jirachi is established to be scarfed, a Magnezone can prove helpful to trap it on a 4x ineffective move and KO it with repeated Thunderbolts, preventing it from ever tricking away its scarf or laying down Stealth Rock. Heatran also boasts 4x resists to both ice and steel, and can either set-up a substitute or hit the switch-in with a high-powered fire attack.</p>

 

[Snorlaxe]

This is more or less an exact copy of the current Aerodactyl lead set, just with different item and EV spread / nature. Why does warrant a completely new set?

 

[Shimrit As]

You're right, this is the same Lead Aerodactyl spread, but with a different EV spread. That makes all the difference. In my opinion, it works better than the current spread because it can do its job against many common leads without your team going down 6-5 straightaway. If the 252 attack EVs and 116 speed EVs aren't accomplishing anything extra, why not use them to push a few 2HKOs into 3HKOs, helping Aerodactyl do something other then laying down entry hazards and dying prematurely?

 

[Snorlaxe]

Well thats kinda the point of Aero leads: Taunt to 100% guarenteed stop the opposing lead from laying down hazards, and then lay SR and die. Its what Aero is good at. If this needs and analysis, I think at the very best you are going to be slashing in some options for items in the current on-site Aerodactyl lead set and suggesting a different EV spread in set comments; this simply isn't a different-enough set to warrant a completely seperate analysis, least of all a six paragraph one.

 

[Shimrit As]

Well okay, then maybe treat it as a six-paragraph justification of why the EV spread deserves to be mentioned =) Frankly, Aerodactyl can help out the team just by staying alive. With the current set, if you taunt a Swampert ice beam or Metagross bullet punch, you'll be dead by the next turn, and in the latter case you won't get stealth rock down at all. What I liked about this spread was that you would still have stealth rock down, still have prevented them from laying down their own entry hazards, and still be alive. That means that after something like MixMence KOs one of your team mates, you can still switch back in and revenge it or force it out. Alternatively, if you manage to leave the field with a portion of your health intact, by for example correctly taunting the opponent's stealth rock, you would still be able to switch back into fire or ground moves.

 

[Frizy]

You left out the nature in the set.

 

[Shimrit As]

You left out the nature in the set.

Sorry, I missed it out.

 

[diinbong]

"Speed" and "Babiri Berry" should be capitalized in all cases in the set comments.

I'm personally on the fence with this set. It does have a different EV spread and small difference in usage, but in retrospect it achieves the same goal as the normal lead set; to set up rocks and Taunt slower setup. In my opinion, the EV spread and Babiri Berry should be given mention in the set comments of the normal lead set. It's a very good writeup nonetheless.

 

[RaikouLover]

Honestly, this set and even EV spread is completely unnecessary. As already mentioned, Aerodactyl is good at dying, laying SR, and preventing your opponent from getting up Stealth Rock. If you plan on using Aerodactyl's defensive potential, you must accompany it with Roost and Sandstorm, and not use it as a lead! Simple as that. I have been testing Aerodactyl for that use lately, as in Sandstorm Aerodactyl can counter quite a few things such as Lucario, Infernape, Heatran, among others.

 

[Shimrit As]

"Speed" and "Babiri Berry" should be capitalized in all cases in the set comments.

I'm personally on the fence with this set. It does have a different EV spread and small difference in usage, but in retrospect it achieves the same goal as the normal lead set; to set up rocks and Taunt slower setup. In my opinion, the EV spread and Babiri Berry should be given mention in the set comments of the normal lead set. It's a very good writeup nonetheless.

Made the applicable changes, thanks. I must point out that on top of setting up rocks and shutting down slower set-ups, it still lives to revenge-kill a Salamence or Infernape or inflict a poison on sturdy leads. That extra utility can prove to be very valuable. Or at least more valuable than if it's dead two turns into the match.

Honestly, this set and even EV spread is completely unnecessary. As already mentioned, Aerodactyl is good at dying, laying SR, and preventing your opponent from getting up Stealth Rock. If you plan on using Aerodactyl's defensive potential, you must accompany it with Roost and Sandstorm, and not use it as a lead! Simple as that. I have been testing Aerodactyl for that use lately, as in Sandstorm Aerodactyl can counter quite a few things such as Lucario, Infernape, Heatran, among others.

Thanks for your opinion, but I would still like to refute some points. As previously mentioned, the old set would die in two hits to Metagross, Swampert, Azelf and company, which means while it lives it does nothing but stop set-up and set-up its own rocks. With this set, it continues to shut down Stealth Rock leads and set-up its own, but its alive after the first two turns! How can this ever be a disadvantage? With no Stealth Rock down on your side of the field, Aerodactyl is free to return in a blind switch or after its team mate has been KOed to shut down walls or hit out with its rock/ground attacks. This set accomplishes a lot more than the current one (no offence meant to its creator) because it moves a lot of unnecessary EV points from Speed and Attack into Aerodactyl's defences, and they actually achieve something.

 

[whistle]

at the very most, this should be an alternate EV spread, and I think even that is giving it a little too much credit. the majority of the information in this set is shared with the lead set and it performs more-or-less the same role on a team. the reason I don't think it should be mentioned at all is that it tries to do too much and forgets why aero is a good lead. the sash lead more or less has guaranteed wins against the majority of leads, knows which leads it has to set up rocks against and gtfo, and knows which leads it can taunt then set up rocks against. your set loses the essentially cut and dry matchups in return for the "possibility" of matching up against a few leads.

so let's go through the reasoning you provide.

lower speed -- the extra speed isn't useful in many cases, but when it helps, wow it sure is a great help. jolteon: instead of guaranteed losing to it, you can either have a good chance of killing it + rocks or killing it. other lead aero: instead of autolosing, you have a chance of preventing rocks setup (probably for the entire game).
heatran and hippowdon are shut down -- and this isn't true for the standard lead why?
swampert ice beam never 2hkos -- so you are left with ~5% after you taunt and sr. either you switch out to let a sweeper take a hit which is dumb or you EQ for LOL%. marginally more effective than the current set.
metagross doesn't 2hko with bp most of the time -- so uh what happens when it meteor mashes for 71.1% - 83.7% and bp for 56.7% - 67.8%? you're boned. this means you can never safely taunt a lead metagross; you always have to set up sr first in fear of the meteor mash. i'd argue you are about even here because you are lulled into a false sense of security.
jirachi doesn't leave you with 1% -- okay so instead of flinching you for 99% it flinches you for 50% and ohkos you the next turn anyways... lol.
of course all of these don't take into account critical hits that focus sash acts like a buffer against.

you guaranteed lose to other lead aerodactyl (#4), have a worse time against lead roserade (#7), and tyranitar (#12), and lose to lead starmie (#22 but arguably more popular among better players), in return for an extremely marginal benefit against swampert (#3 and not much of a threat at all in the first place).

not to mention the analysis is extremely bloated with stuff that should be cut out according to the new concision guidelines.

 

[Shimrit As]

other lead aero: instead of autolosing, you have a chance of preventing rocks setup (probably for the entire game).

Opposing lead Aerodactyl will never OHKO with Rock Slide while you bring it down to its sash 80% of the time (factoring in accuracy). They have no way of knowing that your speed has been lowered, which means they are more likely to taunt. Although you won't get your rocks up, I wouldn't call it an "autolose".

heatran and hippowdon are shut down -- and this isn't true for the standard lead why?

Fine, no difference from the current set. But while previously Hippowdon had a high chance of 2HKOing with Ice Fang, now it has no way to. That means you can taunt it without risking Aerodactyl's life. By not being sacrificed, it will be able to shut down other members of that stall team, such as Skarmory and Toxic/Flamethrower Blissey.

swampert ice beam never 2hkos -- so you are left with ~5% after you taunt and sr. either you switch out to let a sweeper take a hit which is dumb or you EQ for LOL%. marginally more effective than the current set.

Just to nitpick, you are actually left with 14 to 27 %. Not 5. I can also imagine a few sweepers who can switch into an Ice Beam without feeling dumb.

metagross doesn't 2hko with bp most of the time -- so uh what happens when it meteor mashes for 71.1% - 83.7% and bp for 56.7% - 67.8%? you're boned. this means you can never safely taunt a lead metagross; you always have to set up sr first in fear of the meteor mash. i'd argue you are about even here because you are lulled into a false sense of security.

Granted, you will lose against Metagross with Meteor Mash. I'm not sure if they are all that common though. Anyway, you prevent it from setting down Stealth Rock and switch to your steel resist, and you can always come back in later with a quarter of your health remaining to set your rocks up, since you won't be taking Stealth Rock damage.

jirachi doesn't leave you with 1% -- okay so instead of flinching you for 99% it flinches you for 50% and ohkos you the next turn anyways... lol.

I wouldn't stay in the second turn, not sure about you. Anyway, it's mentioned in the set comments that you will have to find a way to deal with Scarfed Jirachi. In any case, isn't 50% better 1%? Since it's locked onto Iron Head, it won't be able to set down Stealth Rock, so Aerodactyl can return later in the battle to do what it failed to earlier on.

you have a worse time against lead roserade (#7), and tyranitar (#12), and lose to lead starmie (#22 but arguably more popular among better players), in return for an extremely marginal benefit against swampert (#3 and not much of a threat at all in the first place).

Lead roserade can never OHKO with HP ice or Leaf Storm, which means Taunt + Stealth Rock is safe. Don't really understand what you mean by a worse time. Won't argue that Tyranitar and Starmie run through you though.

I think the reason you do not appreciate the set is because you are imagining it playing the same way as the current suicide lead. Mostly, Aerodactyl is chosen because it is about the only lead that guarantees Stealth Rock, and works if your team carries Charizard, Yanmega or something. This lead doesn't compromise on that, and although it won't be able to set-up rocks against MM Metagross, Scarf Jirachi and Jolteon, the current set can't either. (except against Jolteon, but the other team isn't getting Stealth Rock up either) Because it avoids being killed two turns into the match while preventing the opponent from getting rocks up, it is free to return to support your team later in the match. That is the one major advantage this set has. I certainly would choose a live Aerodactyl over a dead one anyday.

 

[ARandomDude]

This looks kinda familiar...

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2137974&postcount=787

 

[Shimrit As]

This looks kinda familiar...

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2137974&postcount=787

Hey, it does :O
I guess both sets have similar purposes. But I didn't copy it!

 

[jc104]

jirachi doesn't leave you with 1% -- okay so instead of flinching you for 99% it flinches you for 50% and ohkos you the next turn anyways... lol.
of course all of these don't take into account critical hits that focus sash acts like a buffer against.

You are never OHKOd even by a CH Iron Head (unless it is adamant). So (almost) always better than focus sash.

I don't understand why you are worse off vs Roserade either - you easily survive a leaf storm and take less damage than if you are rescued by a sash. The only issue here if is there is a crit.

The standard Aero performs poorly against starmie besides - it usually gets finished off by rapid spin after activation of the sash. Either that or it goes for the 2HKO with the (shaky) stone edge (actually maybe EQ and RS can do enough with LO damage) and is left on 1 hp. This one has to switch out immediately, or hope that the opponent goes for ice beam or thunderbolt thinking it will bring you down to sash (avoiding the innacurate Hydro Pump), and then be surprised when it doesn't come especially close to a KO (you stealth rock as rapid spin will not KO from this position). In reality this may actually be a tie between the sets. In other words you get guaranteed stealth rock and the standard lead doesn't.

With this set you survive a bronzong's or forretress' gyro ball more comfortably, due to lower speed as well as defensive investment.

Obvious advantage vs hail because your sash is useless.

Helps a little vs Machamp (you take less from dynamicpunch)

I can't think of any more leads where it makes a difference.

The only real opponents you lose out against are Tyranitar, other aerodactyl (a little bit,) Crobat (it might use hypnosis) and Jolteon. I'm completely sold on the set.

This set is better than the one in the new/created movesets thread (no offense - it was a good idea though) but I'm sure you both came up with it independently

 

[Chillarmy]

You are never OHKOd even by a CH Iron Head (unless it is adamant). So (almost) always better than focus sash.

You didn't get what whistle posted >_>. Both sets only have a 40% chance of setting up Stealth Rock.

I don't understand why you are worse off vs Roserade either - you easily survive a leaf storm and take less damage than if you are rescued by a sash. The only issue here if is there is a crit.

This is isn't worse off when facing Roserade. In fact, both the suicide lead and this lead are 2HKO'd by Leaf Storm.

The standard Aero performs poorly against starmie besides - it usually gets finished off by rapid spin after activation of the sash. Either that or it goes for the 2HKO with the (shaky) stone edge (actually maybe EQ and RS can do enough with LO damage) and is left on 1 hp.

Rock Slide is the new standard imo...

Life Orb Starmie does 102.5% - 120.7% with Surf and I have yet to see any other item on a Starmie lead. The suicide lead set can actually go for the 2HKO with Rock Slide (albeit not a 100% guaranteed 2HKO, but the flinch rate almost ensures that Starmie will lose).

In other words you get guaranteed stealth rock and the standard lead doesn't.

Wait, this Aerodactyl can set up Stealth Rocks when it's at 0 HP? Hm, go figure. I'm pretty sure that you're factoring in Sandstorm which (lol) isn't going to be present against Starmie if this Aerodactyl is leading.

With this set you survive a bronzong's or forretress' gyro ball more comfortably, due to lower speed as well as defensive investment.

Actually, it's still a 2HKO >_>. If one if going to play this Aerodactyl conservatively, then they will only have time to Taunt and switch out.

Helps a little vs Machamp (you take less from dynamicpunch)

I doubt that. Though Dynamicpunch is only a 2HKO, the confusion really fucks Aerodactyl up. It should also be noted that Earthquake has a low chance of breaking one of Machamp's subs.

The only real opponents you lose out against are Tyranitar, other aerodactyl (a little bit,) Crobat (it might use hypnosis) and Jolteon. I'm completely sold on the set.

Hypnosis and Crobat leads are uncommon these days thanks to Crobat's ability to support a Rain Dance team more reliably than a standard team and Hypnosis' shitty accuracy. Jolteon is used less than Crobat imo...

Also:

NOV 2009 STANDARD LEAD                   
 | Rank | Name       | Lead   | Percent |
 +------+------------+--------+
 |    1 | [U][B]Azelf[/B][/U]      |  62756 |    8.60 |
 |    2 | Metagross  |  50528 |    6.92 |
 |    3 | Swampert   |  33640 |    4.61 | 
 |    4 | [B]Aerodactyl [/B]|  33463 |    4.58 |
 |    5 | Jirachi    |  33360 |    4.57 |
 |    6 | [U][B]Infernape [/B][/U] |  29870 |    4.09 |
 |    7 | [U][B]Roserade[/B][/U]   |  22113 |    3.03 |
 |    8 | [U][B]Heatran[/B][/U]    |  20890 |    2.86 |
 |    9 | [U][B]Smeargle[/B][/U]   |  20146 |    2.76 |
 |   10 | [U][B]Hippowdon[/B][/U]  |  19715 |    2.70 |
 |   11 | [U][B]Tyranitar[/B][/U]  |  19490 |    2.67 |
 |   12 | [U][B]Gliscor[/B][/U]    |  18798 |    2.58 |
 |   13 | [U][B]Ninjask[/B][/U]    |  16740 |    2.29 |
 |   14 | [U][B]Dragonite[/B][/U]  |  15391 |    2.11 |
 |   15 | Bronzong   |  14688 |    2.01 |
 
  Key:
 
 [B]Bold[/B] - < Standard Lead
 [U]Underlined[/U] - < Non-suicide Lead

There aren't any notable advantages that this set brings. Yes, Aerodactyl will survive a few hits, but what is it going to do when it switches back in. More importantly, how will Aerodactyl switch back in? Its typing is horrid and it defenses are no better. What's more is that it's going to be at 50% =|

Finally, Lum Berry Metagross leads have gained popularity recently due to the amount of Roserade leads and Rotom-a switch ins. So yeah, Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch is used more than Earthquake + Bullet Punch.

 

[Theorymon]

At the most, this would get mentioned in the Suicide lead set as an alternate EV spread and item, but honestly for the reasons whistle and Oxymentus posted, Focus Sash seems to be a much better choice regardless, so I'm locking this thread. If you want to plead your case, please PM me and Colonel M logs of this lead.