Amoonguss Discussion

[HuntSaboteur]

Amoonguss

Ah, another generation, another struggle for poison-type concepts. This time it's Amoonguss, who is seemingly taken from the Voltorb idea of disguising itself as a Pokeball. And like Electrode, it has also found a place for itself in the upper end of NU. On the other hand, both can be utilised in RU. Amoonguss's main benefit is the one that all mushrooms have: Spore, possibly the best status move ever. 100% accuracy sleep? Yes please. And our little 'shroom here has level-up access to it.

But once you've woken up from Spore-induced dreams of sweeping with it, you realise Amoonguss only has one stat above 100 - HP - and it is actually one less than Entei's. A bit pathetic, but it still works. Unlike Entei, it can function defensively without being laughed at.

Moving on, we need a profile.

HP: 114
Attack: 85
Defense: 70
Special Attack: 85
Special Defense: 80
Speed: 30

The thing about Amoonguss is that it has defensive stats that are worse than some of the frailest Pokemon in the division. Nonetheless, it's better than them defensively.

Notable Moves
Attract
Clear Smog
Defense Curl
Giga Drain
Growth
Ingrain
Sludge Bomb
SolarBeam
Spore
Stun Spore
Sunny Day
Synthesis
Toxic
Venoshock

Without further ado, let's move on to the movesets.

Double/Triple Powder
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/128 Def/128 SpD
Nature: Bold/Calm
-Spore
-Giga Drain/Stun Spore
-Toxic
-Venoshock

Three status conditions. Generally, use Toxic on defensive Pokemon (bar Clefable) and Spore on offensive ones. If you just used Spore, then use Stun Spore (if you have it!) on the switch. If you have the opponent poisoned, that's your chance to attack. Venoshock away until they're KOd. Giga Drain is there for attacking Pokemon resistant to Poison (such as Steelix) and as a better attack than Venoshock on Spore'd Pokemon. Giga Drain is better than Energy Ball as extra healing is preferred over 5 more base power.

Sun Abuser
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Bold/Calm/Modest
EVs: 124 HP/128 Def/128 SpA/128 SpD
or
252 HP/192 Def/64 SpD
-Growth
-SolarBeam/Giga Drain
-Spore
-Synthesis/Sludge Bomb/Stun Spore/HP Fire

This set is for general purpose sun abusing. Amoonguss is equipped with Growth, SolarBeam and Synthesis. These three moves, along with Spore as a way of letting Amoonguss sweep, surprise enemies to no end and can possibly achieve a KO. The principle is similar to a slow version of Venusaur: it has all the correct moves and Grass/Poison coverage. To make up for its abysmal speed, Amoonguss comes with Spore. Multiplying a usable SpA stat by two is going to give you results, especially with repeated attacks under Spore. If you are worried about Snover etc. trapping you, use Giga Drain over SolarBeam. The fourth slot is coverage: Amoonguss suffers from four-move syndrome, despite its small movepool. You can either opt for coverage, extra healing or a way to make it seem faster with Stun Spore. Do not use Giga Drain along with Synthesis. Sun setup is required and the best sun setup in RU is Uxie.

 

[Stratos]

This Pokemon is hindered by its horrible movepool, and frankly, spore is not enough of a reason to use it when you have him sharing a tier with Tangrowth and Lilligant, two much better grasses with access to reliable sleep. He seems like a decent wall until you realize he can't do virtually anything outside of Spore and sit there bulkily.

 

[Keiran]

Ohai Homusubi :3

I love this Poké personally, I've ran a physically defensive Amoonguss with great success,

Amoonguss (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Spore
- Substitute
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]

I know Regen is unreleased, But it works just aswell [Kinda] without it, I used it in DW OU, Spore opponent, Sub up on switch or on 1st turn of sleep and proceed to widdle down your opponent, This set can take +4 Drain punchs from Conkelldurr, although I do not know what the opponent's EV spread was.

 

[col49]

Ohai Homusubi :3

I love this Poké personally, I've ran a physically defensive Amoonguss with great success,

Amoonguss (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Spore
- Substitute
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]

I know Regen is unreleased, But it works just aswell [Kinda] without it, I used it in DW OU, Spore opponent, Sub up on switch or on 1st turn of sleep and proceed to widdle down your opponent, This set can take +4 Drain punchs from Conkelldurr, although I do not know what the opponent's EV spread was.

Conkeldurr's relevance in the RU metagame is...what again? If anything, he should be running a specially bulky set, cosndiering the dominant special attackers of the tier.

Sorry, but as Pwnemon mentioned, many of the common bulky Grass types generally outclass him. His best merits are his better special bulk (initial), ability to absorb TSpikes, and Clear Smog/Spore, and his sets should reflect that. Also, offensive Amoongus should only be run in team with Specs Gurdurr and Flame Orb Kabutops .-.

 

[DTC]

While Amoongous isn't amazing, it has a unique niche of fully stop-ing Gallade. However, Amoongous really doesn't have anything else. Its best niche is making something fall asleep while checking stat boosters. The fact it picks up toxic spikes is just a little bonus. Amoongous doesn't even have leech seed or aromatherapy.

Also, every Amoongous set should be utilizing synthesis. Recovery is very useful and it is not like Amoongous has much else useful to run. Vileplume has a much more useful movepool then Amoongous, just is a little less bulky.

Amoongous would probably be a lot better with regenerator...

 

[waterwarrior]

While Amoongous isn't amazing, it has a unique niche of fully stop-ing Gallade.

I've seen several Gallade run Zen Headbutt or Psycho Cut (in fact, don't most of them...?). You're kidding yourself if you think you can wall that for a long time.

The poor mushroom really isn't usable in RU due to its poor typing for the tier and just the specially offensive nature of the tier. It really should just stay where it is in NU for reasons stated before, Tangrowth/Tangela and Lilligant, and to be honest, I think Roselia does its job better anyways.

 

[DTC]

I've seen several Gallade run Zen Headbutt or Psycho Cut (in fact, don't most of them...?). You're kidding yourself if you think you can wall that for a long time.

Most BU Gallade can't afford to run one of those 2 moves. (Flying and ghost types are very troubling.) The only gallade I can think of that usually runs that is 4 attack Gallade.

Either way, I forgot about Gallade's psychic typing so Amoongous doesn't FULLY stop Gallade.

 

[kniteowl]

I used to run Clear Smog Amonguss to counter Smash Pass Gorebyss in Early RU, it usually survived +2 Ice beam and not all Gorebyss run Ice beam as it was more common for Blastoise to switch in and dragontail/roar it out so quite a few Gorebyss ran HP-Electric to counter Blastoise. Although now days Smash pass seems a lot more uncommon.

 

[Twannes]

smashpass=as good as gone dunno what happened to it.

Amoonguss seems like a good poke in RU, but due to a meh typing and Base stats it just gets outclassed by other pokemon.

 

[HuntSaboteur]

Tangrowth and Lilligant, two much better grasses with access to reliable sleep

Not. The thing about Spore is that it has 100 percent accuracy. Sleep Powder is very hax-prone (At the time of the last frontier I beat Reyscarface. He blamed it on a Sleep Powder miss). Isn't it 75 accuracy or something? That's worse than Stone Edge.

 

[Keiran]

Conkeldurr's relevance in the RU metagame is...what again? If anything, he should be running a specially bulky set, cosndiering the dominant special attackers of the tier.

Nothing, I was simply stating how well this Poké could take a hit.

 

[lars]

I've utilized this guy on all of my RU teams. Being the bulkiest user of spore gives it a good enough niche imo. Yes, it was more for smash pass counters in my early teams, but the decent mixed bulk has proved to be useful. (Takes non stab +2 icebeams to spore and clear smog/giga drain) can't remember my current ev spread, but clear smog, spore, sludgebomb, and giga drain has worked decently for me. Not that its not subject to change.

 

[HuntSaboteur]

Clear Smog and Sludge Bomb? On the same Pokemon? Surely Spore/Clear Smog/Giga Drain/Toxic is better.

 

[Nix_Hex]

Clear Smog and Sludge Bomb? On the same Pokemon? Surely Spore/Clear Smog/Giga Drain/Toxic is better.

Agreeing here. Poison; even STAB Poison is only to be used in emergency situations, when the Pokemon in question has an awful movepool (Amoonguss), NOT as two moves on the same set. Yucky.

 

[BurningMan]

poision isn't that bad especially when you couple it with Grass it gets almost perfect Coverage bar steel types who are really rare in the RU metagame when you couple it with HP Fire you hit the only two of the four common steels in RU for 4x damage (ferroseed, durant) and the other two are hit neutral by Giga Drain (Steelix, Aggron).

 

[lars]

poision isn't that bad especially when you couple it with Grass it gets almost perfect Coverage bar steel types who are really rare in the RU metagame when you couple it with HP Fire you hit the only two of the four common steels in RU for 4x damage (ferroseed, durant) and the other two are hit neutral by Giga Drain (Steelix, Aggron).

Thank you, poison does not grant much (practically none) super effective. I am aware of this, but when paired with Grass, it allows me to hit most of the common 'mons in the tier at least neutrally.

Clear Smog and Sludge Bomb? On the same Pokemon? Surely Spore/Clear Smog/Giga Drain/Toxic is better.

...rarely.
My use for Amoonguss requires that I can "haze" the opponent. With Grass typing for my sole attacking move there is plenty that can resist and reliably get and keep a sub up, making all of the suggested moves useless.

With a decently strong attacking move in Sludge Bomb I can prevent substitutes as well as hit for some damage on switches.

Most opposing Pokemon that resist both of these STABs (scolipede, pure poison types, ferroseed, to some extent durant, etc), either don't have any reason to be switching in on me or I don't have any reason to switch into.

 

[Jaetheho]

This Pokemon is hindered by its horrible movepool, and frankly, spore is not enough of a reason to use it when you have him sharing a tier with Tangrowth and Lilligant, two much better grasses with access to reliable sleep. He seems like a decent wall until you realize he can't do virtually anything outside of Spore and sit there bulkily.

HORRIBLE MOVEPOOL?
heck, if anything, this suffers from 4mss.

a set of
-spore
-synthesis
-clear smog
-toxic
-giga drain
-sludge bomb
-hidden power

would be ideal, but we cant have everything.

 

[HuntSaboteur]

Poison is rubbish offensively. Sludge Bomb is only there to give a 90 damage STAB. The only other uses are Toxic status, Venoshock sweeping, and Clear Smog. If you are running offensive Amoonguss, then use HP Fire and Giga Drain as your attacks.

 

[col49]

poision isn't that bad especially when you couple it with Grass it gets almost perfect Coverage bar steel types who are really rare in the RU metagame when you couple it with HP Fire you hit the only two of the four common steels in RU for 4x damage (ferroseed, durant) and the other two are hit neutral by Giga Drain (Steelix, Aggron).

Steel and Poison, but I digress.

The only other uses are Toxic status, Venoshock sweeping, and Clear Smog. If you are running offensive Amoonguss, then use HP Fire and Giga Drain as your attacks.

Venoshock sweeping? Is poisoning a poke, then hitting it with a base 130 move, both of which are not suited for Amoongus, considering sweeping now? And maybe I wasn't blunt enough before, but offensive Amoongus has nearly 0 value, even bloody Victreebell outclasses it. He can run a mean support set, but that's as far as he goes.

 

[lars]

I'm not exactly sure where the misunderstanding arose, but I am not running an offensive set. He is utilized for sleep hazing alone on my team. Sludge bomb is practically filler so I can break subs on grass resists that still works in the rain. (Clear smog doesn't haze through a sub and 50 bp isn't doing any offensive favors besides taunt immunity) I'll be high on shrooms the day I use this one to sweep.

 

[HuntSaboteur]

Was the shroom pun intended?

While it is true that defensive Amoonguss is far better than offensive, do not underestimate it. It can 1HKO.

 

[col49]

Was the shroom pun intended?

While it is true that defensive Amoonguss is far better than offensive, do not underestimate it. It can 1HKO.

...

It can 1HKO.

...where can I begin there? What does it OHKO? Are these KOs noteworthy? How much are you taking away from his bulk to make this possible? What's the incentive to run him offensively over the other offensive Grass types of the tier? Because "Solarbeam can OHKO any Quagsire" is by no means a suitable argument.

 

[November Blue]

I think that the point is that Amoonguss does have some offensive presence. It's not as pathetically weak as some of you make it out to be. I've said this before, and I'll keep saying it: 56 Special Attack EVs. Leave the 252 HP, take it out of Defense, and Amoonguss' attacks become noticeably stronger, now managing 2HKOes instead of 3HKOes ect. I've used this is OU, and it's bulk is still exceptional.

Synthesis gives it an edge. Bulk, reliable recovery, Spore and Clear Smog are a potent combination, but without Synthesis, it can't stick around, which is what it's supposed to do. Spore and Clear Smog should be used as threats, constantly popping up and pressuring the opponent, but it needs to be able to take hits. Until Regen is released, Synthesis is essential IMO. Snover is somewhat rare anyway, so it's not like trying to use Cresselia in OU.

 

[Molk]

While Amoongous isn't amazing, it has a unique niche of fully stop-ing Gallade.

This.......... is the most completly untrue thing i have ever seen, by now everyone knows i run sub on my gallade, and imo so should you cause it really helps, but its your choice.

think about this scenario:

1. Player 1 sent out Gallade
2. Player 2 switches in amoonguss as gallade sets up
3. Gallade used SUBSTITUTE! AMOONGUSS'S SPORE DOESNT WORK!
4. Amoonguss fails to break the sub as gallade sets up another bulk up
5. Amoonguss breaks sub while gallade sets up another bulk up
6. Gallade used Substitute again! AMOONGUSS'S Clear smog fails to break sub and The effect does not work if the foe is behind a Substitute.
7. Gallade sets up as amoonguss breaks sub
8. Cycle repeats until amoonguss switches or gallade decides it has enough boosts and attacks

now a good player would have switched out amoonguss a lot earlier but i think you see the point, if gallade decides to run sub, and also so the statements about zen headbutt and psycho cut made earlier, this shows that Gallade>Amoonguss.

Also gallade's unboosted ice punch (41.67% - 49.54%) 2hkoes after sr damage unboosted.

 

[Molk]

Anyone with more than 2 brain cells won't spam Spore and Clear Smog on Gallade, they'll spam Giga Drain until it's forced out.
Stop assuming that Amoongus is completely helpless against Gallade please.

Amoonguss's giga drain doesnt break galldes sub actually, so that would in short make it helpless it subs as it giga drains, bulk ups repeats the cycle until amoonguss says fuck this or if gallade has less than enough health it can drain punch, which after 3 or 4 bulk ups will do a lot and be enough to heal gallade

calcs goes here:

Amoonguss 56 spa giga drain vs gallade (15.13% - 18.10%) DOES NOT BREAK GALLADE's FUCKIN SUB

+3 gallade Drain punch vs Amoonguss (39.12% - 46.06%) enough to heal up enough to make another sub