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All Gens Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Mark II (RoA edition)

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Jellicent, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    Those intros were called Overviews, which were tier specific. As I mentioned before, those are not currently featured due to the new layout, but you can expect things to continue to change as more work is done on the new dex. I can't say for certain that they'll be back, but I imagine we'll be trying to include all of that useful information as we continue to organize things, and they can still be found in C&C for the time being.
  2. Epsilonsama

    Epsilonsama

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    Is still a shame that is being lost in the shuffle. Any particular reason that has been removed from current articles?
  3. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    The new format has every analysis from a single gen on the same page. While that might not seem like much for say a GSC analysis, where there's probably only an OU analysis that exists, it makes a difference in later gens. The example I used before was BW Victreebel, which has an analysis for Ubers, OU, UU, RU, and NU all lumped on the same page. With Overviews and Checks and Counters sections being tier specific, having all of them tossed in together would be a mess. For an even better example, there's BW Ludicolo. That has Ubers, OU, UU, RU, NU, and Doubles; it would also have past VGC as well, but those appear to be missing atm. Ninjask, Gorebyss, Shiftry, Kabutops, Omastar, etc. all have a similar amount in BW and probably XY.

    To expand on this further, we might be adding OMs to C&C. That means things like Balanced Hackmons, STABmons, 1v1, Monotype, etc. might be getting analyses as well, which would increase this problem even more. The new format's not set in stone, but for now, those sections are removed to eliminate clutter. I'll try to chat with chaos about the issue next time I catch him on IRC/PS, as I'd like to see them added back as well; it's just not sensible with our beta dex currently. For now, just hold tight as we rework this stuff~
    totoTavros likes this.
  4. Viscacha

    Viscacha

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    How do you suggest a Pokemon of an older gen to be moved to another tier?
  5. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    For past gens, tiers are mostly set in stone. If there's a specific problem, it can be dealt with, but usually we just let sleeping dogs rest. What mon in what tier were you hoping to move?
  6. Isa

    Isa

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    It has happened not too long ago, I remember Porygon2 getting OU status a year ago or two in ADV after being BL for a long time.
  7. Viscacha

    Viscacha

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    I was hoping that Chansey could be moved out of the BL tier in gen III because it never gets used competitively in OU since Blissey is in the same tier. If it was in UU it would actually get used. I know gen III UU isn't existant yet but I'm just pointing this out
  8. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

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    BL to UU is a whole other matter than BL to OU though. The P2 change was done to reflect its usage and effectiveness in OU play.
    MoxieInfinite likes this.
  9. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Never getting used in OU is not a legitimate rationale for a Pokemon to be moved from BL to UU. BL is defined to be those Pokemon that are not used in OU but which are too powerful for UU; as such, to move a Pokemon from BL to UU would require demonstrating that it doesn't overcentralise UU.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
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  10. Twisted Kneebar

    Twisted Kneebar

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    I'm running a Leech Seed Breloom and I wanted to ask a question on EV distribution. The set runs a 236 HP / 252 Def spread, with the 236 HP being used to attain maximum recovery from Poison Heal. Thing is I have a Tyranitar on my team. My question is: Usually when running sand, people drop the leftovers number because you'll take max damage from the sand if you do. Now since Breloom is getting pseudo leftovers after sandstorm, I shouldn't change the EV spread, right? For any other Pokemon that isn't sand immune, it would make sense to use a 240 HP / 248 Def spread on a sandstorm team because you don't want to take max damage from sand, correct?
  11. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Can someone give me some tips on how to make a team based around Choice Band Tauros in ADV OU? I'm trying to really get into the metagame lately, and I think I remember someone (chaos, I believe) who mentioned in a Smogcast a while back that he was a fan of Tauros. I got to thinking about it not too long ago and decided to make a team based around one, but I kinda ran into trouble teambuilding. I started overloading my team with things to support Tauros such as a Spikes user, Gengar to spinblock, Magneton for Steels, Dugtrio for Tyranitar, and special Tyranitar with Pursuit for Gengar, but I was having trouble fitting all the support for Tauros that I wanted while still having a solid team that could handle itself against the rest of the metagame. I guess my big question is how much support is enough to make a successful Tauros-based team? Spikes are probably going to definitely go on the team somewhere, but what other forms of support (especially trapping) are really necessary and what forms would it be easier to go without? If I can narrow it down to just the necessities, then hopefully that'll give me more room to build with the rest of the metagame in mind.
  12. kill yourself

    kill yourself .|~Fashionista~|.
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    gar spikes + magtrio is a team thats trying to do way too many different things at once. i dont think tauros needs spikes at all tbh, it fits best on physical offense teams that have good answers to wisp gar and bulky waters. bulky sub leech bp celebi works well for those purposes as long as you dont get overwhelmed by opposing spikes too easily and can lure in skarm for a quick trap with mag.
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  13. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Ok, I gotcha. So maybe start with Tauros / Magneton / Celebi as a base for the team and just go from there with an emphasis on physical offense?
  14. adv

    adv

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    hate to talk badly of the bulll, but tauros ain't so good. im no fan of a cber who gets hit by spikes and sand, and has only normal STAB. he's super hard to play, and even if you predict well, you struggle to do much. try cb salamence instead, the one thing you lose really is the extra speed.
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  15. MarquisPhantom

    MarquisPhantom

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    Is the only reason Scizor was OU in gen V because of Bullet Punch?
    A fellow battler friend of mine (who I admit is probably a lot better than me) is convinced that the only reason Scizor was OU in gen V because of Bullet Punch. While I do realize that this was a staple on most of it's sets I do not believe that it is solely do to this reason. Scizor has a great typing, good ability, and some good moves to use. What do you guys think? Also, I feel as though this can overlap into gen VI but I would prefer that Mega Evolution isn't brought into the conversation too much as that is clearly a good reason for it being OU in gen VI.

  16. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    Wow, big font ._.

    STAB Technician Bullet Punch is a part of why Scizor is OU in BW, but that's certainly not the only reason. STAB U-turn is also fantastic, allowing it to maintain momentum for the team. It can also Pursuit troublesome Ghosts and Psychics, sweep with a Swords Dance set, and has a fantastic typing that allows it to take Dragon and most other types of moves pretty comfortably (it's only weak to Fire.) Bulkier sets even have Roost at their disposal. It's a combination of many factors that allow any Pokemon to succeed in OU, and Scizor is no different. Its stats, movepool, typing, and ability all mesh together to make a powerful offensive threat with good utility.
  17. Bedschibaer

    Bedschibaer ['bedʃɪbɛːɐ]
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    Technician boosted priority was definitely the main reason to use scizor and it was what made it so good. I think the argument of (thing) is ou because of (thing) doesn't really lead to anything, because as you said it, scizor doesn't only have one thing speaking for it, great typing, great stat distribution, ability to run different sets. It's usually the combination and uniqueness of those things that make players use one mon over a pool of others that can perform similar roles.
    But if you look at the usage of Scizor you will quickly see that it became ou in the gen it got technician and bullet punch, that is of course not a coincidence. Before that Scizor was bound to run baton pass sets because it just couldn't make use of its big attack stat.
  18. wwenze

    wwenze

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    Put it this way... how many Scizor do you see without Bullet Punch? Probably a few, especially when my own Scizor is trying to anti-meta, but the ability to OHKO a surprising number of sweepers on neutral hits with CB, and SD/bulk sets appreciate this hard-hitting priority as a STAB move too.

    BP alone isn't worth much, but with Scizor's typing, base stats, and technician, BP completed the combo with technician patching up the slow speed of the metal bug. Remove any factor and down goes this poke. See also: Scyther.
  19. thelinearcurve

    thelinearcurve

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    hey! just wondering, what are good ev spreads for dance tars and gyaras? (gen 3) are the smogon listings really optimal?

    thanks :)
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
  20. Stef0w

    Stef0w

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    In the gen 2 analysis for Starmie, it states that Starmie is in the top 5 best pokemon in GSC.

    This seemed like a very weird statement, but who are the top 5 best pokemon in GSC?

    Why is electivire OU in gen 4, when people say it's the worst thing ever?
  21. Isa

    Isa

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    I don't think Starmie has ever been top 5 in GSC.

    In this meta top 1 is Snorlax, top 3 adds Zapdos and Raikou. Top 5 is a bit more arguable, but I would say it's Cloyster and Skarmory. Starmie is top 10 to 15 or something.
  22. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    It's OU because our tiering is based on usage. While there was some hype around it early on in DP, people quickly realized it just wasn't that good. Gyaravire was a predictable combo, meaning Motor Drive boosts weren't extremely easy to pull off. Base 95 Speed just wasn't that great without a boost, given all of the base 100s in the tier. Furthermore, despite its awesome coverage and solid Attack stat, Thunder Punch was its best physical STAB at 75 BP. Its other coverage moves were also kinda weak, so that good Attack and coverage were not actually impressive.

    Despite it not being that good of an option, newer players continued to use it on the ladder because it looked good on paper and was considered OU, so its usage was always just over the cutoff point to stay OU. The fact that it consistently remained in the tier became kind of a running joke for DPPers.
  23. MoxieInfinite

    MoxieInfinite Banned deucer.

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    i disagree, i think eggy is top 5 instead of cloyster
  24. Bedschibaer

    Bedschibaer ['bedʃɪbɛːɐ]
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    Well, that is kinda the issue here that also caused confusion in the first place, viability isn't something set in stone but more something with a subjective component. I think we can all agree roughly on what's good, what's the best and what isn't good, but i think after Snorlax and electrics the list doesn't look the same for everyone. Even though i do think Starmie in the top 5 isn't really understandable i don't think it's possible to set a universal top 5 in any tier.
  25. george182

    george182

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    Gen4: Starmie, Tyranitar, Heatran, Jirachi, Rotom

    I don't think many people will disagree with that
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