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Ask a Simple Question Get a Simple Answer - RU Edition

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Oglemi, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    @MoosePlus yeah, Amoonguss+Slowking can be annoying to break down if you're not prepared, but like any defensive/bulky offensive core there are many ways to beat it, i'll list three good ones below!

    1) Sigilyph Sigilyph is a massive pain for Amoonguss+Slowking to handle once Sleep Clause is in effect (its actually somewhat problematic for defensive cores in general. Magic Guard means Sigilyph is immune to any form of passive damage, and while its bulk isn't stellar it can take almost any hit from either Pokemon bar something like Choice Specs Slowking Surf. Meanwhile Sigilyph can just Calm Mind up to the point where its strong enough to OHKO Amoonguss easily and 2HKO Slowking. Albiet rare, Duosion is quite similar if you give it 4 Speed EVs to ensure it outspeeds both Slowking and Amoonguss, and can be a great alternative if you can't accord to have any more weaknesses to moves such as Stone Edge and Volt Switch.

    2) Substitute+Calm Mind Uxie Uxie is in a similar boat to Sigilyph, switching in on pretty much anything the two can throw at it bar Spore or a random scald burn, and from there it can set up a Substitute that neither can immediately break and set up Calm Minds until both Pokemon can be reliably KO'd. Take into account that Uxie isn't immune to residual damage though, so you have to be a bit more careful when attempting to switch it in.

    3) CB Druddigon and Escavalier Druddigon is an absolute monster, and CB varients are able to pressure Slowking+Amoonguss quite a bit. Choice Band Outrage is incredibly powerful, and neither Pokemon can avoid being 2HKO'd at best by the dragon, often simply getting OHKO'd. Druddigon doesn't have a hard time switching in either due to its good bulk and resistances to Water and Grass-type moves. CB Escavalier is able to switch in and break down the core quite easily if it has 84 Speed EVs, it can outspeed and OHKO both Pokemon pretty easily with the extra investment and only fears Slowking's Fire Blast.

    Of course there are some other ways to beat up the core, both common and more obscure, so if you'd like a few more be sure to reply! Hope i helped :).
  2. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Molk you ninja. Since I was typing this up already I'll share my ideas too.

    One good idea is to pack a powerful Pursuit user such as Spiritomb or Absol, as this will immensely cripple Slowking once it switches out, allowing you to then send out a powerful Fire type such as Choice Band Entei and OHKO Amoonguss and do enough to finish off Slowking (who still takes plenty from Flare Blitz). If not a Fire type, pretty much anything that can OHKO Amoonguss will finish off Slowking after it was Pursuited (of course, it it is still alive afterward...)

    A bit more unique option is Bouffalant (any Sap Sipper variant), which can set up on both fairly easily unless it switches into a Toxic or gets burned by Scald. It gets a free switch into any Grass move Amoonguss has (considering how often they switch out Bouffalant just needs to wait for Amoon to show its face) and a Choice Banded Head Charge OHKOs both after a Sap Sipper boost, or it can set up a Substitute after Amoonguss flees, which will give it a buffer against other Pokemon and still do plenty to both.

    Finally Lum Berry + Hone Claws Durant can OHKO both after the boost but be careful about random Fire moves when you use it. As a result it is probably best to see if Amoonguss is carrying HP Fire and if its not set up on it. Lum Berry is in order to take a status move from Amoonguss in order to set up for free against it.

    I hope I helped too!
  3. MoosePlus

    MoosePlus

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    oohhhh sub+CM...that does sounds pretty good, thanks! i am using CB druddigon, was being a beast until a 1st time scald burn by slowking then it went downhill from there D:
  4. MoosePlus

    MoosePlus

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    hey that pursuit idea does make excellent sense! and i might just try out that durant, see how it goes haha
    thanks for all the help!
  5. Turtleye

    Turtleye

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    Galvantula is also a nice option, although not as good as Mortar, because of his inability to hit Amoonguss SE outside of a HP, but they need to have Ebelt and not Scarf/Specs in order to succesfully break through the core. Eelektross is also an option, albeit slower than the former two, but I think your best bet is (Mixed) Emboar, who gets Wild Charge to hit Slowking and Flare Blitz/Flamethrower for Amoonguss.
    Oh and a sleep talker is also nice to have since most Amoonguss run spore.

    Edit:
    k late >_<
    MoosePlus likes this.
  6. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    I know I'm late, but just another thing or two that can prove to be helpful when facing Regenerator cores @MoosePlus :

    Choice Band Braviary: This thing absolutely nukes p. much any Pokemon with Regenerator bar Alomomola. In fact, outside of Alomomola, every common Regenerator Pokemon is 2HKOed at worst by Brave Bird (even Mola will face a 2HKO some of the time)

    Mixed Attacker Samurott: Perhaps the best at breaking Regenerator cores is Samurott. With a combination of Ice Beam, Grass Knot, and Megahorn, it is able to either take out or severely weaken every common Regenerator Pokemon in the tier. Samurott is a bit easier to fit onto teams than CB Braviary due to the lack of a Stealth Rock weakness or recoil from its primary STAB move, although Braviary requires less prediction.
    MoosePlus likes this.
  7. Safes

    Safes

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    Hi guys, could you suggest me a good offensive partner for CM Sigilyph?
  8. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    CM Sigilyph has a hard time against most Psychic Pokemon and is vulnerable to Sucker Punch as well and Dark moves or Pokemon in general, especially Spiritomb. Escavalier, although it needs to watch out for Fire Blasts from Slowking and Absol, can Megahorn and kill them all and Pursuit the psychic types if they flee. Durant needs to watch out for the same stuff and paralysis but its faster than all the Psychic and Dark types in the tier and deals massive damage to all of them. CB OHKOs all of them bar probably Spiritomb while Hone Claws + Lum Berry can allow it to set up without being stopped by a Thunder Wave (again, if the foe does not have Fire Blast)

    Hope I helped!
  9. Safes

    Safes

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    You sure did! I'm testing Lum Durant right now, and the duo seems to be working nicely. Now it's time to correct the most obvious teambuilding mistakes :P
    Thanks!
  10. colourcodedchaos

    colourcodedchaos

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    If I was determined to build a team around Coil Eelektross, how would I go about that?
  11. Turtleye

    Turtleye

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    Well I'm not the best teambuilder, but as Eelektross isn't like the fastest pokemon. So I'd suggest getting something at least with Twave.
    Also you might get at least 1 second win condition and one wallbreaker.
    A secondary win condition can be something like Ebelt Galvantula and a Wallbreaker is most often something with CB/Specs (correct me if I'm wrong)
    and maybe you can add some defensive pokemon, like Slowking and Tangrowth.

    I hope this helped but as I said, this might not be the best advice
  12. noobcubed

    noobcubed

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    Can I just ask: why is SubSeed Whimsicott seen as so bad? I know it's walled by every grass type, as well as Sigilyph and Clefable, but if the opponent is switching in a Grass-type into Whimsicott just to guard against SubSeed, well that gives support Whimsicott (the most common kind) an extra turn to do its job. (Also, I love how, according to Smogon, SubSeed Whimsicott isn't viable in RU, but it is in UU, OU and Ubers).
  13. Turtleye

    Turtleye

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    I think the point of this is that there are a lot more viable options to use Subseed with, Sceptile for example. While Whimsi does have acces to Prankster Subseed, it is generally not having any offensive presence, as the most common two attacks it runs are Uturn and Giga Drain.
    I think the main reason it's Subseed set is viable in the upper tiers is that most of the Subseeders here can perform a different role in those tiers (Ludicolo is a rain sweeper, Sawsbuck a Sun Sweeper, Sceptile is a late-game cleaner with Acrobatics Unburden, etc).
  14. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    Okay well one of the reasons that Whimsicott should not run sub-seed, is that dedicating two move slots to a strategy that will in general be useless against at least one of the opposing mons is pretty stupid. I challenge you to find a well constructed RU team without at least one grass type, Sigilyph, Clefable, or Bouffalant, cause all will have one or two of these things. The other reason Sub-Seed is seen as pretty bad, is that Whimsicott offers a lot more to its team as a supporting pivot, meaning that Stun Spore, Encore, Taunt, U-turn, Memento, and even options like Sunny Day or Tailwind are generally better than both leech seed and substitute. Leech seed by itself isn't a bad choice however, as you can come in and seed something, then support your team and switch. Also, different C&C people operate in the different tiers, so Whimsicott probably still has better things to do in those tiers than sub seed. Turtleye is also right to a degree, if I wanted a sub-seeder I would choose Sceptile or Tangrowth, something that could actually damage the grass-type or sap sipper switch ins, but sub-seed is kind of a mediocre strategy tbh, easily ended by any user of U-turn.

    Also if your opponent is switching in their grass type to counter sub seed it does give the support set more room to operate, but if you were using sub seed you wouldn't benefit from this, so I don't really see your point.
  15. myhugeboijoe

    myhugeboijoe

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    Who's the best Late-game cleaner in RU?
  16. Turtleye

    Turtleye

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    Quite possibly any 'mon with good attacking stats, and a decent speed or boosting move, can function as a cleaner in RU.
    The list goes from Sceptile to Cinccino to even Swellow and Galvantula.
    The thing is, a late-game cleaner is most of teh time a mon that is meant to sweep when it's checks and counters are gone.
    Also, scarf users suck as Scarf Emboar are great late-game cleaners as they can just go ahead and spam the same move over and over again that has the bets coverage of the remaining enemy team.

    MOst of the time, a late-game cleaner is just something that is fast and has decent attack stat, or one with a setup move like Bulk Up
  17. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    myhugeboijoe

    Hey, welcome to RU!

    Anyways, as mentioned by turtleye there are quite a few options when it comes to late game cleaning, and almost any Pokemon can clean up later on in the game with the proper support, there is one Pokemon i'd like to suggest thats exceptionally good in this role though, and thats Choice Scarf Medicham.

    [​IMG]
    Medicham (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pure Power
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Psycho Cut
    - ThunderPunch
    - Trick

    Medicham performs exceptionally good as a late game sweeper despite its somewhat low all around stats thanks to a combination of Pure Power and Hi Jump Kick's massive BP, which lets it 2HKO pretty much any non Hi Jump Kick resist at the very worst even without a boost from say Choice Band (adamant scarf Medicham has a shot at 2HKOing Tangrowth after Stealth Rock with Hi Jump Kick and its Hi Jump Kick is only slightly weaker than CB Druddigon's Outrage, as an example of just how strong Medicham ends up). Medicham's Choice Scarf boosts its Speed stat up significantly and allows it to Outpace the vast majority of the tier bar other scarfers and exceptionally fast threats such as Accelgor, giving you a very quick and powerful threat that can easily wreak havoc later on in the game. Of Course, Medicham needs a bit of support to get a clean sweep because of various bulky Psychic-types that trouble it like Slowking, Uxie, and Mesprit, as well as Pokemon that are immune to Hi Jump Kick such as Spiritomb. Pokemon with Pursuit can easily remedy this by trapping and eliminating these Pokemon, which all happen to be weak to the move bar Spiritomb, who still takes neutral damage. Absol, Spiritomb, and Escavalier are all good at providing this support and are great Pokemon otherwise, so i'd definitely give them a try when trying to support Medicham.
  18. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    Backing Scarf Medicham, but Drain Punch is usable over Trick for when you want to use a Fighting STAB, but don't want to risk the deadly recoil of missing a HJK. There's also another late-game sweeper that I like to use quite a bit:

    [​IMG]
    Braviary (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Brave Bird
    - Superpower
    - Return
    - U-turn

    Braviary is one of the more overlooked Choice Scarf Pokemon, but it is quite effective at cleaning up late-game imo. It has 2 really solid STABs to work with and a coverage move that deals with Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon that would normally be very safe against a Pokemon with Normal/Flying coverage. U-turn scouts these switch-ins earlier on and weakens them so Braviary can take them out with Superpower later or allow a teammate to easily switch-in and handle them. Braviary has a great base 123 Attack stat which allows it to hit really hard even without a Choice Band or Life Orb boost. I personally run Adamant to give it some extra oomph for sweeping late-game and the fact Jolly Scarf Emboar, Swellow, and Sceptile are still outsped. Even though it has Superpower, defensive Steel- and Rock-types such as Rhydon and Steelix can be problematic. Special Attacker Manectric, Mixed Emboar, Mixed Druddigon, and Eelektross can all effectively deal with these threats. Rapid Spin support from Kabutops also really helps since Braviary is weak to Stealth Rock and loves to use U-turn early on to weaken its checks and counters in order to prepare a late-game sweep. Spikes support from Roselia and Ferroseed is also really nice since most of Braviary's checks are grounded and lack reliable recovery. Although I do feel Medicham is a little bit easier to support, Braviary can take a hit or two and scout effectively, two things that Medicham isn't capable of doing very well.
  19. The TurtleLord

    The TurtleLord

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    Swellow @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Facade
    - Brave Bird
    - U-turn/Quick Attack
    - Protect


    I would say swellow is an excellent late game cleaner due to its incredible speed and high bp facade along with guts, making it incredibly deadly. The only trouble with this set is rocks and steels, as they completely shut down swellow, so i suggest having a powerful fighting type(medicham being a prime example) to eliminate these threats. Once they are gone, swellow can literally spam facade...
    Turtleye likes this.
  20. Dodododuo

    Dodododuo

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    Hey guys I just had a quick question about my current Subtile build, should I drop a type coverage move for leech, because I've heard great things about subseeds, or do you think this is more effective?
    Kimori (Sceptile) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
  21. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    Hello Dodododuo, welcome to smogon! Anyways, that Substitute Sceptile set actually looks pretty good to me (its the one i use most of the time lol). You should have no problem using the set as it is imo, and i usually find it more effective than Subseed varients. If you specifically want to fit Subseed somewhere though, i'd probably add Leech Seed over Hidden Power Rock as thats the coverage move you need least imo, and replace Life Orb with Leftovers to get that extra recovery at the end of every turn along with the Leech Seed recovery, making the subseed cycle that much more effective.

    Hope i helped!
  22. Dodododuo

    Dodododuo

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    Thanks so much for the input! I really enjoy Sceptile as a sub sweeper so I think I'll leave him be but the other concept still sounds interesting, perhaps I'll use him for my next team.
  23. The Communist Duck

    The Communist Duck

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    Hey. (New to comp. past reading over metagame threads out of interest)

    I was wanting to get into comp. - and preferably RU, as the pokes I want to use are mostly there and I don't like the ones in OU - and just wondering: how much of it goes on via simulators (Showdown, I presume?) and how much of it is actually done over WiFi? From what I've seen it's a lot of the first, but I also see a lot of people mentioning training their teams for comp. battling in-game..

    Thanks!
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  24. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    Hi The Communist Duck, and welcome to smogon n_n. On the Smogon forums, discussion is generally focused on simulators such as pokemonshowdown, some people (such as myself) only play competitively on simulators, while many others play on both. Most of the tournaments or events on smogon take place on simulators, all though there is a wifi section of the site, but I don't frequent it so I don't know. Basically it is almost completely focused on simulators.

    Hope to see you around RU!

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