Atk-Def Equality

escarlata

escarlata

Atk-Def Equality
(approved by The Immortal and The Eevee General )
​
Ever wanted to use special attacking Gyarados? Sweep with Skarmory? Wall stuff with Prankster Murkrow? If you answered "Yes" for any of the previous questions, then this metagame is for you! Welcome to Atk-Def Equality, where the boundaries of attack and defense are blurred.

Rules:
  • Standard OU clauses and banlist applies
  • Each Pokemon's offensive stat and its respective defensive stat becomes equal. i.e. Atk = Def; SpA=SpD
  • The higher stat is shared for both stats. i.e. If your Atk > Def, then your Def becomes the same value as your Atk; If your Def > Atk, then your Atk becomes the same value as your Def.
  • That makes it pretty clear but examples are best for explaining. i.e. Gyarados has a spread of 95/125/79/60/100/81. Of its physical stats, its Atk is higher than Def, so its Def becomes 125. Of its special stats, its SpD is higher than SpA, so its SpA becomes 100. Overall, Gyarados will have a spread of 95/125/125/100/100/81

Credits to Adonzo to taking the time to compile an entire list of BST changes
Adonzo said:
Because I'm crazy, here's a list of Pokemon by in order of their new BST, along with BST differences from standard play to see who the biggest beneficiaries of this meta are. Specifically, mons with a benefit of over 50 BST are bolded
945 Shuckle +440
924 Mega Mewtwo X +144
924 Mega Mewtwo Y +144
920 Deoxys-A +320
800 Rayquaza +120
800 Deoxys-N +200
800 Kyurem-B +100
800 Kyurem-W +100
784 Lugia +104
780 Deoxys-D +180
780 Mega Garchomp +80
770 Mega Latios +70
764 Mewtwo +84
764 Ho-Oh +84
760 Mega Blaziken +130
760 Slaking +90
752 Mega Lucario +127
750 Regigigas +80
749 Xerneas +69
749 Yveltal +69
746 Mega Gyarados +106
740 Mega Aggron +110
740 Kyurem +80
739 Mega Tyranitar +39
735 Mega Heracross +135
730 Regirock +150
730 Regice +150
730 Registeel +150
730 Mega Latias +30
730 Dialga +50
730 Palkia +50
730 Reshiram +50
730 Zekrom +50
720 Giratina +40
720 Arceus +0
720 Aegislash +200
710 Mega Absol +145
705 Cresselia +105
704 Mega Charizard Y +70
702 Bastiodon +207
700 Carbink +200
700 Diancie +100
698 Mega Charizard X +64
690 Mega Gengar +90
690 Mega Aerodactyl +75
690 Kyogre +20
690 Groudon +20
690 Probopass +165
690 Uxie +110
690 Azelf +110
689 Archeops +122
685 Mega Alakazam +95
685 Salamence +85
680 Thundurus-T +100
680 Landorus-T +80
675 Mega Ampharos +65
673 Shaymin-S +73
670 Tornadus-I +90
670 Thundurus-I +90
670 Landorus-I +70
670 Goodra +70
670 Hoopa +70
668 Mega Gardevoir +50
667 Mega Blastoise +37
665 Mega Banette +110
660 Mega Pinsir +60
655 Mega Kangaskhan +65
650 Mega Venusaur +25
650 Cloyster +125
650 Mega Houndoom +50
650 Darmanitan-Z +110
650 Hydreigon +50
650 Genesect +50
650 Volcanion +50
648 Mega Abomasnow +54
645 Mega Scizor +45
645 Suicune +65
645 Darkrai +45
640 Umbreon +115
640 Garchomp +40
640 Heatran +40
639 Dragonite +39
638 Meloetta-P +38
637 Cobalion +57
637 Terrakion +57
637 Virizion +57
637 Keldeo +57
635 Steelix +125
635 Mega Manectric +60
635 Zygarde +35
631 Honchkrow +126
630 Snorlax +90
630 Moltres +50
630 Latias +30
630 Latios +30
630 Dusknoir +105
629 Tyranitar +29
628 Gallade +110
626 Gyarados +86
625 Articuno +45
625 Entei +45
621 Emboar +93
620 Zapdos +40
620 Blaziken +90
620 Magnezone +85
620 Tangrowth +85
620 Tornadus-T +40
615 Rampardos +120
615 Zoroark +105
610 Metagross +10
610 Deoxys-S +10
610 Lucario +85
610 Glaceon +85
610 Chandelure +90
610 Mienshao +100
607 Haxorus +67
606 Elecitivire +66
605 Arcanine +50
605 Omastar +110
605 Heracross +105
605 Raikou +25
605 Weavile +95
605 Porygon-Z +70
600 Flareon +75
600 Mew +0
600 Blissey +60
600 Celebi +0
600 Aggron +70
600 Jirachi +0
600 Infernape +66
600 Manaphy +0
600 Shaymin +0
600 Victini +0
600 Meloetta-A +0
598 Magmortar +58
598 Excadrill +90
597 Hitmonlee +142
597 Florges +45
595 Sharpedo +135
595 Togekiss +50
590 Exeggutor +70
590 Wailord +90
590 Mamoswine +60
590 Darmanitan +110
590 Mandibuzz +80
590 Greninja +60
588 Cofagrigus +105
588 Ferrothorn +99
585 Cacturne +110
585 Claydol +85
585 Dusclops +130
585 Yanmega +70
585 Volcarona +35
585 Gogoat +54
584 Milotic +44
583 Scrafty +95
583 Avalugg +69
581 Samurott +53
580 Luxray +57
580 Floatzel +85
580 Mesprit +0
576 Braviary +66
575 Machamp +70
575 Eelektross +60
570 Aerodactyl +55
570 Houndoom +70
570 Sceptile +40
570 Drifblim +72
570 Gliscor +60
570 Escavalier +75
568 Serperior +40
568 Simisage +70
568 Simisear +70
568 Simipour +70
567 Blastoise +37
565 Muk +65
565 Accelgor +70
565 Espeon +40
564 Charizard +30
564 Typhlosion +30
564 Bronzong +64
564 Rotom-A +44
562 Noivern +27
561 Krookodile +42
560 Victreebel +70
560 Tentacruel +45
560 Gengar +60
560 Meganium +35
560 Swampert +25
560 Conkeldurr +55
560 Sawk +95
560 Vanilluxe +25
560 Bouffalant +70
556 Hitmonchan +101
556 Floette-E +5
555 Tangela +120
555 Scyther +55
555 Crobat +20
555 Scizor +55
555 Ursaring +55
555 Mantine +90
555 Skarmory +90
555 Stoutland +55
554 Hariyama +80
554 Heatmor +70
554 Pyroar +47
552 Toxicroak +62
552 Golurk +69
551 Zebstrika +54
551 Delphox +17
550 Magneton +85
550 Lapras +15
550 Shiftry +70
550 Absol +85
550 Leafeon +25
550 Klinklang +30
548 Magmar +53
548 Gourgeist-S +54
546 Exploud +56
546 Chesnaught +16
546 Clawitzer +46
545 Alakazam +45
545 Slowbro +55
545 Kangaskhan +55
545 Starmie +25
545 Vaporeon +20
545 Jolteon +20
545 Ampharos +35
545 Miltank +55
545 Altaria +55
545 Walrein +15
545 Gorebyss +60
545 Relicanth +60
545 Staraptor +60
545 Rhyperior +10
545 Gothitelle +55
545 Cryogonal +60
545 Druddigon +60
545 Sylveon +20
543 Gourgeist +49
544 Torterra +19
543 Pangoro +48
542 Empoleon +12
542 Barbaracle +42
540 Nidoking +35
540 Pinsir +40
540 Octillery +60
540 Kingdra +0
540 Mega Mawile +60
540 Torkoal +70
540 Flygon +20
540 Roserade +25
540 Lickilicky +25
540 Gigalith +25
540 Reuniclus +50
539 Feraligatr +9
539 Seismitoad +30
538 Seviper +80
538 Crawdaunt +70
538 Carracosta +43
538 Gourgeist-L +44
537 Cradily +42
535 Weezing +45
535 Porygon2 +20
535 Manectric +60
535 Hippowdon +10
535 Drapion +35
535 Throh +70
535 Sigilyph +45
535 Dragalge +41
533 Unfezant +45
533 Leavanny +33
533 Tyrantrum +12
533 Aurorus +12
533 Gourgeist-X +39
530 Raichu +45
530 Poliwrath +20
530 Rapidash +30
530 Hitmontop +75
530 Mega Medicham +20
530 Armaldo +35
530 Lopunny +50
530 Lilligant +50
529 Musharna +42
528 Hypno +45
528 Gardevoir +10
528 Hawlucha +28
526 Venusaur +1
526 Electabuzz +36
526 Galvantula +54
525 Ninetales +20
525 Tauros +35
525 Banette +70
525 Beartic +40
525 Bisharp +35
525 Trevenant +51
522 Ambipom +40
522 Liepard +76
521 Spiritomb +36
521 Swanna +48
520 Nidoqueen +20
520 Chansey +70
520 Seadra +80
520 Camerupt +60
520 Kecleon +80
519 Golduck +19
519 Maractus +58
518 Stantler +53
518 Vespiquen +44
518 Abomasnow +24
517 Furfrou +45
515 Vileplume +25
515 Golem +20
515 Onix +130
515 Bellossom +25
515 Jumpluff +55
515 Forretress +50
515 Skuntank +36
515 Crustle +40
515 Sawsbuck +40
515 Beheeyem +30
514 Talonflame +15
513 Zangoose +55
512 Mothim +88
512 Basculin +52
510 Primeape +55
510 Dewgong +35
510 Kabutops +15
510 Politoed +10
510 Sneasel +80
510 Breloom +50
510 Nosepass +135
510 Grumpig +40
510 Scolipede +25
510 Cinccino +40
510 Jellicent +30
509 Garbodor +35
507 Stunfisk +36
505 Slowking +15
505 Huntail +20
504 Sliggoo +52
501 Ninjask +45
500 Dodrio +40
500 Electrode +20
500 Mr. Mime +40
500 Xatu +30
500 Donphan +0
500 Gastrodon +25
500 Carnivine +46
500 Froslass +20
500 Whimsicott +20
499 Heliolisk +18
497 Audino +52
497 Archen +96
496 Meowstic +30
496 Slurpuff +16
495 Wigglytuff +60
495 Rhydon +10
495 Girafarig +40
495 Granbull +45
495 Pelipper +65
495 Mismagius +0
493 Malamar +11
492 Seaking +42
492 Doublade +44
491 Clefable +8
491 Murkrow +86
490 Kingler +15
490 Jynx +35
490 Gligar +60
490 Ludicolo +10
490 Tropius +30
488 Klefki +18
487 Swalot +20
487 Durant +3
485 Marowak +60
485 Rotom +45
484 Pidgeot +5
484 Lumineon +24
484 Amoonguss +20
481 Chatot +70
480 Beedrill +85
480 Magcargo +70
480 Lairon +50
480 Glalie +0
480 Munchlax +90
480 Phione +0
480 Alomomola +10
478 Whiscash +10
476 Wormadam +52
476 Wormadam-G +52
476 Wormadam-S +52
475 Golbat +20
475 Togetic +70
475 Pachirisu +70
475 Purugly +23
472 Shieldon +122
472 Aromatisse +10
471 Pignite +53
471 Diggersby +48
470 Sandslash +20
470 Venomoth +20
470 Weepinbell +80
470 Haunter +65
470 Azumarill +50
470 Piloswine +20
470 Wailmer +70
470 Metang +50
470 Klang +30
469 Cherrim +19
468 Arbok +30
467 Fearow +25
467 Fraxure +57
465 Sunflora +40
465 Beautifly +70
462 Noctowl +20
460 Ledian +70
460 Lanturn +0
460 Sudowoodo +50
460 Lunatone +20
460 Solrock +20
460 Chimecho +35
458 Emolga +30
457 Monferno +52
455 Dugtrio +50
455 Kadabra +55
455 Wobbuffet +50
455 Combusken +50
455 Swellow +25
454 Raticate +41
453 Vivillon +42
451 Dewott +38
450 Persian +10
450 Qwilfish +20
449 Swoobat +24
446 Volbeat +46
446 Dedenne +15
445 Machoke +40
445 Grovyle +40
445 Dustox +60
445 Watchog +25
445 Duosion +75
443 Servine +30
443 Whirlipede +83
443 Frogadier +38
440 Parasect +35
440 Ponyta +30
440 Omanyte +85
440 Bayleef +35
440 Yanma +50
440 Mightyena +20
440 Linoone +20
440 Vigoroth +0
440 Medicham +30
440 Bibarel +30
440 Gabite +30
440 Zweilous +20
439 Dragonair +19
437 Wartortle +32
437 Furret +22
437 Swadloon +57
435 Misdreavus +0
435 Roselia +35
435 Shelgon +15
435 Cranidos +85
435 Mantyke +90
435 Gurdurr +30
430 Quagsire +0
430 Corsola +50
430 Marshtomp +25
430 Braixen +21
429 Pupitar +19
426 Charmeleon +21
426 Quilava +21
425 Plusle +20
425 Minun +20
425 Cacnea +90
425 Sealeo +15
425 Gothorita +35
425 Eelektrik +20
425 Lampent +55
424 Bronzor +124
424 Quilladin +19
422 Kricketune +38
420 Lickitung +35
420 Carvanha +115
420 Castform +0
419 Grotle +19
418 Magby +53
418 Masquerain +4
416 Loudred +56
416 Lileep +61
415 Porygon +20
415 Dunsparce +0
415 Herdier +45
412 Prinplup +7
410 Butterfree +15
410 Gloom +15
410 Graveler +20
410 Ariados +20
410 Illumise +10
410 Anorith +55
410 Luxio +47
410 Vullaby +40
409 Croconaw +4
408 Ferroseed +103
406 Ivysaur +1
405 Duskull +110
404 Palpitoad +20
404 Fletchinder +22
400 Magnemite +75
400 Boldore +10
400 Vanillish +5
396 Rufflet +46
396 Litleo +27
395 Growlithe +45
395 Skorupi +65
395 Zorua +65
395 Larvesta +35
395 Floette +24
390 Tentacool +55
390 Aipom +30
390 Houndour +60
390 Nuzleaf +50
390 Buizel +60
390 Darumaka +75
390 Mienfoo +40
388 Drilbur +60
388 Krokorok +37
388 Scraggy +40
388 Tirtouga +33
386 Elekid +26
385 Poliwhirl +0
385 Koffing +45
385 Flaaffy +20
385 Clamperl +40
384 Unown +48
384 Buneary +34
381 Tranquill +23
380 Nidorino +15
380 Bellsprout +80
380 Gastly +70
380 Exeggcute +55
380 Delcatty +0
380 Sableye +0
380 Mawile +0
380 Luvdisc +50
380 Drifloon +32
378 Drowzee +50
375 Cubone +55
375 Kabuto +20
375 Shelmet +70
375 Amaura +13
374 Tyrunt +12
372 Skiddo +22
370 Nidorina +5
370 Horsea +75
370 Pancham +22
368 Yamask +65
366 Farfetch'd +14
365 Abra +55
365 Grimer +40
365 Staryu +25
365 Skiploom +25
365 Swablu +55
365 Shuppet +70
365 Starvia +25
365 Frillish +30
365 Elgyem +30
364 Espurr +9
363 Trubbish +34
361 Swirlix +20
360 Mankey +55
360 Seel +35
360 Shellder +55
360 Teddiursa +30
360 Remoraid +60
360 Delibird +30
360 Aron +30
360 Spinda +0
360 Vibrava +20
358 Snover +24
357 Axew +37
355 Rhyhorn +10
355 Solosis +65
355 Deerling +20
355 Cubchoo +50
355 Pawniard +15
354 Pidgeotto +5
351 Spritzee +10
350 Doduo +40
350 Voltorb +20
350 Eevee +25
350 Chikorita +32
350 Natu +30
350 Torchic +40
350 Lombre +10
350 Spoink +20
350 Beldum +50
350 Mime Jr. +40
350 Karrablast +35
350 Pumpkaboo +15
349 Finneon +19
348 Froakie +34
347 Sewaddle +37
347 Honedge +22
345 Squirtle +31
345 Numel +40
345 Trapinch +55
345 Baltoy +45
345 Stunky +16
345 Dwebble +20
344 Clauncher +14
342 Goldeen +22
342 Croagunk +42
342 Golett +39
341 Blitzle +46
341 Phantump +32
340 Krabby +15
340 Smoochum +35
340 Bonsly +50
340 Hippopotas +10
340 Timburr +35
339 Psyduck +19
338 Corphish +30
338 Binacle +32
337 Chimchar +28
336 Oshawoot +28
335 Pikachu +15
335 Oddish +15
335 Machop +30
335 Shroomish +40
335 Goomy +35
332 Turtwig +14
331 Clefairy +8
330 Chinchou +0
330 Snubbull +30
330 Phanpy +0
330 Treecko +20
330 Mudkip +20
330 Shellos +5
330 Gible +30
330 Klink +30
329 Sandile +37
329 Joltik +10
328 Charmander +19
328 Cyndaquil +19
328 Glameow +18
328 Snivy +20
327 Woobat +14
326 Tepig +18
326 Pansage +10
326 Pansear +10
326 Panpour +10
326 Cottonee +46
325 Venonat +20
325 Electrike +30
325 Bagon +25
324 Munna +32
323 Bergmite +19
322 Gulpin +20
322 Flabébé +19
321 Piplup +7
321 Chespin +8
320 Sandshrew +20
320 Geodude +20
320 Chingling +35
320 Riolu +35
320 Gothita +30
320 Deino +20
320 Skrelp +0
319 Dratini +19
319 Totodile +5
319 Larvitar +19
318 Bulbasaur +0
318 Ekans +30
317 Ducklett +12
315 Vulpix +16
315 Jigglypuff +45
315 Slowpoke +0
315 Ledyba +50
315 Togepi +70
315 Pineco +25
315 Petilil +35
314 Tympole +20
314 Fennekin +7
312 Helioptile +23
311 Nincada +45
310 Paras +25
310 Poliwag +10
310 Marill +60
310 Meditite +30
310 Wynaut +50
310 Lillipup +35
310 Minccino +10
310 Vanillitte +5
310 Litwick +35
305 Diglett +40
305 Spheal +15
305 Budew +25
304 Foongus +10
300 Meowth +10
300 Mareep +20
300 Snorunt +0
300 Shinx +37
298 Barboach +10
298 Inkay +10
297 Purrloin +26
296 Whismur +56
295 Taillow +25
295 Wingull +25
295 Tynamo +20
294 Cherubi +19
292 Spearow +30
290 Nidoran-M +17
290 Smeargle +40
290 Roggenrola +10
288 Ditto +0
288 Kirlia +10
287 Fletchling +9
284 Rattata +31
283 Venipede +23
282 Hoothoot +20
281 Shedinja +45
280 Nidoran-F +5
280 Slugma +30
280 Slakoth +0
277 Makuhita +40
275 Hoppip +25
275 Patrat +20
275 Pidove +11
273 Surskit +4
270 Spinarak +20
270 Starly +25
270 Happiny +50
268 Combee +24
265 Zubat +20
262 Zigzagoon +22
260 Swinub +10
260 Skitty +0
260 Bidoof +10
256 Pidgey +5
256 Burmy +32
255 Noibat +10
254 Spewpa +41
250 Magikarp +50
250 Feebas +50
245 Igglybuff +35
243 Bunnelby +6
240 Metapod +35
240 Poochyena +20
237 Sentret +22
231 Cleffa +13
230 Kakuna +25
230 Pichu +25
230 Lotad +10
230 Seedot +10
230 Azurill +40
226 Kricketot +32
225 Silcoon +20
225 Cascoon +20
215 Wurmple +20
210 Wooper +0
210 Tyrogue +0
208 Ralts +10
207 Scatterbug +7
200 Caterpie +5
200 Weedle +5
180 Sunkern +0
250px-213Shuckle.png
Click to expand...
And credits to The Pizza Man for compiling the stats of new ORAS stuff
The Pizza Man said:
I decided to make a list of the ORAS Mega's stats (Plus BST increases), just for easier theorymoning for you guys and because I'm bored. Like the OP, I bolded that pokes who got a +50 BST Increase
Beedrill: 65/90/90/80/80/75 --> 65/150/150/80/80/145 670 BST(+175)
Pidgeot: 83/80/80/70/70/101 --> 83/80/80/135/135/121 634 BST (+55)
Slowbro: 95/110/110/100/100/30 --> 95/180/180/130/130/30 745 BST (+155)
Steelix: 75/200/200/65/65/30 --> 75/230/230/95/95/30 755 BST (+145) (Finally a meta game were Mega Steelix is no longer outclassed by Mega Aggron, and in this its the opposite)
Sceptile: 70/85/85/105/105/120 --> 70/110/100/145/145/145 725 BST (+95)
Swampert: 100/110/110/90/90/65 --> 100/150/150/110/110/75 690 BST(+55)
Sableye: 50/75/75/65/65/50 --> 50/125/125/115/115/20 550 BST (+70)
Sharpedo: 70/120/120/95/95/90 --> 70/140/140/110/110/105 675 BST (+115)
Camerupt: 70/100/100/105/105/40 --> 70/120/120/145/145/20 620 BST (+60)
Altaria: 75/90/90/105/105/80 --> 75/110/110/110/110/80 595 BST (+5)
Glaile: 80/80/80/80/80/80 --> 80/120/120/120/120/100 660 BST (+80)
Salamence: 95/135/135/110/110/100 --> 95/145/145/120/120/120 745 BST (+45)
Metagross: 80/135/135/95/95/70 --> 80/150/150/110/110/110 710 BST (+10)
Latias: 80/90/90/130/130/110 --> 80/120/120/150/150/110 730 BST(+30)
Latios: 80/90/90/130/130/110 --> 80/130/130/160/160/110 770 BST(+70)
Lopunny: 65/84/84/96/96/105 --> 65/136/136/96/96/135 664 BST (+84)
Gallade: 68/125/125/115/115/80 --> 68/165/165/115/115/100 738 BST (+120)
Audino: 103/86/86/86/86/50 --> 103/126/126/126/126/50 657 BST(+112)
Diancie: 50/150/150/150/150/50 --> 50/160/160/160/160/110 800 BST (+100)

And although it's mostly irrelevant, here are the primals + Mega Rayquaza
Kyogre: 100/100/100/150/150/90 --> 100/150/150/180/180/90 850 BST(+80)
Groudon: 100/150/150/100/100/90 --> 100/180/180/150/150/90 850 BST(+80)
Rayquaza: 105/150/150/150/150/95 --> 105/180/180/180/180/115 940 BST(+160)



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Click to expand...

Update 21/2/2015: Since I'm pretty much leaving Smogon from now on, if anyone wants to take over this project and needs permission, just take this as permission I guess.​
 
Last edited:
Just wanna list off a few Pokemon that look really good/fun off the top of my head:

Azumarill (Base 80 Attack) Huge Power, Base 80, two powerful STABs, priority, knock off... Yeah, Azumarill lol. Assault Vest/Choice Band/Belly Drum.. Any common set.
Muk (Base 100 Special Attack) SPECIAL MUK IS A THING NOW JSNDLFJKSDNFSDLFKJNSDF
Azelf (Base 125 Defense/Special Defense) Bulky, fast, powerful, good offensive and defensive/support movepools, yay Azelf!
Cloyster (Base 180 Attack) SHELL SMASH GG

This OM looks amazing.

Edit: Lol Shuckle
 
Last edited:
Does this mean 125/170/170/120/120/95 Kyurem-B because holy crap on a cracker on crack, also some really offensive mons actually get more stats from their defenses, like, umm I can only remember Serperior but I know there are others, Mega Bannete gets bulk, Mega Absol isn't has bulky has paper, defensive Dragonite sounds even better, Zard X has 78/130/130 defenses, so much bulk, Shulkle is really feeling it, the attack on Probopass actually makes him a decent trapper, the regi trio has the stats.
 
The biggest winners in this meta are things with monster attacking/defensive stats, such as...

kyurem-black.gif

Kyurem-B
125/170/170/120/120/95

WOW. Kyurem-B got a huge boost in bulk. On the other hand, many defensive mons get equally scary offensive buffs.

registeel.gif

Registeel
80/150/150/150/150/50

Perhaps one of the better Kyurem-B checks?

regirock.gif

Regirock
80/200/200/100/100/50

Gets a serious attack boost

and holy fuck

shuckle.gif

Shuckle
20/230/230/230/230/5
 
thank fucking god deo-d is uber

Shuckle tho. Too bad it still has 5 Speed.
110/160/160/110/110/100 Regigigas could be fun. Does it get any sort of special movepool? idr
Mega Aggron with Base 230 Attack watch the fuck out.
Regirock and Steelix have slightly worse typings but holy fuck their attack stats.
lol Lando-T
Archeops is slightly better. Defeatist still sucks tho.
95/135 physical defenses with Intimidate for Salamence. Welp...
hey flareon might actually have a use now
Bastiodon looks super awesome.
Mega Ampharos and Thundurus-T look great too.
Base 200 SpA Regice. Too bad its typing is so shit.
and lol holy shit dusknoir
 
This is actually pretty awesome. The name is fine imo. I'm getting pretty sick of everything being [whatever]-mons.

Some stuff that gets better list:
Lando-T = 145 Base def with intimidate
Mandibuzz = 105 Atk, 95 Spa so it actually has some offensive presence
Zygarde = 121 Atk, much better for DD and Coil sets
Florges / Goodra / Suicune = Bulky stuff with average offenses...

Stuff that gets more bulk:
Infernape, Lucario, Toxicroak, Trevenant, Snorlax, Nidoking, Mienshao, Houndoom, Honchkrow, Entei, Darmanitan, Azelf, Aerodactyl, Absol
... and so on

Megas work the same, correct?
 
RIP Talonflame, got some pretty useless buffs to Def/SpD (just a few points) and can barely break anything anymore (even with CB) with so many other mons getting huge defense buffs.
 
Just some calcs for you:
252+ Atk Choice Band Shuckle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 237-280 (70.9 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Holy crap
252+ Atk Choice Band Shuckle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem-B: 410-486 (90.3 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO Kyurem-B might take 1 might
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 135-159 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Special defensive Mega Absol is real
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Banette: 123-145 (37 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Based god Bannete
252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 117-138 (32.5 - 38.4%) -- 97.8% chance to 3HKO Zard got bulk too
 
Look at the new physical attacker of this meta:

aggron-mega.gif

M-Aggron: 70/230/230/80/80/50
Look at thise attack!
252+ Atk Mega Aggron Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Shuckle: 216-254 (88.5 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
That is some power!
Better than shuckle with a more viable type and moves, and a nice ability to keep it alive.
Let's go Aggron! :D
 
Honestly, physical attackers seem really scary here.
Introducing the answer to all physical attackers:
murkrow.gif

Murkrow: 60/85/85/85/85/91
@Eviolite
Feather Dance/Roost/Taunt/Toxic or something similar.

-2 252+ Atk Shuckle Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Murkrow: 152-180 (47 - 55.7%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO
-2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Murkrow: 160-190 (49.5 - 58.8%) -- approx. 80.9% chance to 2HKO

I just ran some random calcs and am surprised that this actually works. Except both have Shell Smash
 
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This looks like a really cool meta. As for a name, how about Power Equality or something along those lines?

Anyway, this is practically bulky offense: the meta. Bulky setup might be the way to go, as several boosts will be needed if you want to kill anything.
 
Zewwok said:
This looks like a really cool meta. As for a name, how about Power Equality or something along those lines?

Anyway, this is practically bulky offense: the meta. Bulky setup might be the way to go, as several boosts will be needed if you want to kill anything.
Click to expand...
Power Equality sounds pretty good, but technically power is not being "equal", so it isn't exactly fitting. I was trying to think of a name which implies "The best defense is a good offense" or something along that line, 'cept my English is not that good to think of something that can simplify that saying. Or something that can imply "keep the better, and drop the worse"
 
Imagine the terror that Ubers would bring:
252 Atk Shuckle Bug Bite vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 216-254 (61 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
this may seem OP, but Mewtwo outspeeds and does a 2HKO.
252 SpA Blissey Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y: 102-120 (28.8 - 33.8%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO
ok, but mewtwo gets a psystrike kill.

let's think about something more OU based:
252+ Atk Machamp Rock Tomb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 280-332 (94.2 - 111.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
DAYUM!
 
Esprite said:
Imagine the terror that Ubers would bring:
252 Atk Shuckle Bug Bite vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 216-254 (61 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Click to expand...

252+ Atk Shuckle Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 374-441 (105.6 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shuckle: 106-126 (43.4 - 51.6%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO

nice try

also imo Special attacking Gyarados is still shit because it has nice coverage, but Base 100 without boosting is crap. especially in the new meta

and damn Murkrow lol. (though crits ruin it)
 
Balanced Stats.

High on Stats.

Equal Stats.

Offense+Defense.

Really, pretty much anything other than "Common Stats", which had me utterly baffled. I was vaguely imagining something like "Identify the most common stat spread and then give it to everything" or "Identify the most common stats for a type and then give all Pokemon of that type those stats" or something bizarre and having nothing to do with the actual metagame.

As for the metagame itself: Shuckle is the end of everything. Pokemon that lean heavily on HP or Speed don't get much out of this meta, RIP Ninjask. Shedinja gets literally nothing out of this meta, which is a first for me.

The meta is both more offensive and more defensive, because offensive Pokemon are tougher but walls are harder hitting. Weird stuff.

So are Mega Evolutions paralleling the base rules (150 Defense Mega Scizor instead of 140) or are they just going to add the usual stats they add, but to this meta's baseline? (Eg Mega Aggron has 30 more Attack than Aggron, vs having 50 more Defense than it, so just adding normal numbers would be less of an overall boost)

Deoxys Attack would be a horror show and flatly invalidate Deoxys Defense.

Rampardos can actually take a hit, physically.

Wait, does this mean Aegislash takes nearly triple damage from Foul Play in Shield Forme but laugh off attacks in Blade Forme? Yikes. It can run without King's Shield in this meta. On the other hand, Ditto can copy Aegislash and not care that it doesn't change Formes.

Bastiodon can actually hurt things!

It's too bad Steelix is basically invalidated by Regirock having some actual Special Defense. 200 Attack.

Diancie has actual offenses! And no Speed and a crap movepool! Whooo! In fact, Carbink basically flatly invalidates it by having actually useful Abilities and moves. At least until Mega Diancie comes along.

Cofafrigus and Probopass are some more Pokemon that gain actual offenses. Too bad Probopass has bigger problems than that.

Assuming Megas are directly affected, then Mega Lucario is nasty.

Porygon-Z can take a hit!

Meloetta-Aria gets nothing out of this at all.

... really most Pokemon have their Attack and Defense and their Special Attack and Special Defense not that far apart. A lot of Pokemon pull up stats, but not many by all that much.
 
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Can we make items/abilities that up an offense/defense stat also up the other?
because I'd love me some bulky Pikachu that hits hard:
252+ Atk Machamp Dynamic Punch vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Pikachu: 145-172 (68.3 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
*+2 is Pikachu's light ball taking effect*
and, 252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 183-216 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 82% chance to 2HKO
considering machamp has 90/130 defense, DAYUM.
 
Ghoul King said:
So are Mega Evolutions paralleling the base rules (150 Defense Mega Scizor instead of 140) or are they just going to add the usual stats they add, but to this meta's baseline? (Eg Mega Aggron has 30 more Attack than Aggron, vs having 50 more Defense than it, so just adding normal numbers would be less of an overall boost)
Click to expand...
I did address this in post #11. The outcome is just such that Atk = Def. So MScizor will have 150/150/100/100 for instance.

Really, pretty much anything other than "Common Stats", which had me utterly baffled. I was vaguely imagining something like "Identify the most common stat spread and then give it to everything" or "Identify the most common stats for a type and then give all Pokemon of that type those stats" or something bizarre and having nothing to do with the actual metagame.
Click to expand...
True LOL, I realise how vague and bad "Common Stats" was after I posted it, and I couldn't think of one that fit the meaning, so I didn't bother changing.

Throbulator36 said:
maybe Based Stats would be a good name
Click to expand...
That actually works as a really nice name, except if I take that as the name, then I would have to write another para to explain why said stats are based.

Anyway, I changed the metagame title to Atk-Def Equality, which conveys the meaning very well. If anyone has a name with a even clearer meaning, or just a fabulous name, then PM me or something. I don't want this thread to get clogged by name suggestions.

Esprite said:
Can we make items/abilities that up an offense/defense stat also up the other?
because I'd love me some bulky Pikachu that hits hard:
252+ Atk Machamp Dynamic Punch vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Pikachu: 145-172 (68.3 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
*+2 is Pikachu's light ball taking effect*
and, 252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 183-216 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 82% chance to 2HKO
considering machamp has 90/130 defense, DAYUM.
Click to expand...
No. Because items do not affect the stat itself, they serve as distinct multipliers, and changing distinct multipliers complicate things.
 
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I really like this idea! I'm gonna post some of my theorymons below (that aren't overthrahses out by everyone else)
143.gif

160/110/110/110/110/30

Snorlax is stupidly bulky and pretty potent offensively with these new mechanics. If you factor out speed, he has one of the highest BSTs around. There isn't necessarily a "must run" set for Snorlax, because I think most teams will be able to overcome curse. Despite this, unreal bulk and decent offenses are a lot. AV is probably the set I would run, backed up by wish support.

130-mega.png

95/155/155/130/130/81

This niggas bst is 746! One of the most awesome offensive and defensive pokemon around, no doubt. Gyarados does learn dark pulse, so he finally gets a good STAB. He also learns scald and fire blast and thunderbolt, making his special movepool pretty awesome. I feel a mixed sweeper serves him best, but the stats are so good a lot will work.
 
asterat said:
I really like this idea! I'm gonna post some of my theorymons below (that aren't overthrahses out by everyone else)
143.gif

160/110/110/110/110/30

Snorlax is stupidly bulky and pretty potent offensively with these new mechanics. If you factor out speed, he has one of the highest BSTs around. There isn't necessarily a "must run" set for Snorlax, because I think most teams will be able to overcome curse. Despite this, unreal bulk and decent offenses are a lot. AV is probably the set I would run, backed up by wish support.

130-mega.png

95/155/155/130/130/81

This niggas bst is 746! One of the most awesome offensive and defensive pokemon around, no doubt. Gyarados does learn dark pulse, so he finally gets a good STAB. He also learns scald and fire blast and thunderbolt, making his special movepool pretty awesome. I feel a mixed sweeper serves him best, but the stats are so good a lot will work.
Click to expand...
Not to mention his base form has intimidate.
 
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