Averagemons - See new thread

[DinaIsha]

Unaware Quagsire and Trevant is a good defensive core in this Meta. Treveant is surprisingly bulky (252HP 252+Def) and has wonderful recover via Harvest Sitrus Berry. Talonflame, of course is OP once again. After 1 SD, it can sweep anything that doesn't resist it and doesn't have Defensive EVs. Then again, it can 2KO them.

Sticky Web is incredible, as it makes sure that all of the opponents Pokemon are always slower than yours (Other than Scarfers, which are speed tied at best). This opens up a lot of options. You can run more defensive EVs on your Pokemon, if you feel like it. You can equip your mons with Choice Specs/Band rather than Scarf. STAB Specs Boomburst hits like a truck. Exploud also has Scrappy, to make it even more viable. Banded Moxie is also viable with Sticky Web on field.

There is a surprisingly large amount of Flying and/or Bug Pokemon around, so as always, Stealth Rock helps. Shuckle gets Stealth Rock, Sticky Web and Sturdy, so it's a promising lead. You can run 252+ Speed on Shuckle, since you're not going to be attacking a lot anyway. You're promised to set up at least 1 Hazard. But Magic Bouncers are still around, so having the two other moves as Infestation and Final Gambit helps (Or if you believe in luck, you can run Shell Smash and Stone Edge to try and look for a crit that does decent damage. Magic Bouncers are usually do not invest in Defense). Another good suicide lead would be Dugtrio, which can setup Stealth Rock and do good damage with Earthquake or Final Gambit. But more to the point, it traps the opponent's non-flying non-levitating lead, eliminating any doubt of Magic Bouncing.

Dual Screens are also a great way of furthering a Setup Sweep. Behind the screens, Talonflame can even get up to +6, roosting off any damage in the process and then Sweep comfortably.

Focus Energy + Scope Lens users get buffed a lot with Sticky Web around, KOing opponents before they even get to move. Octillery is the best user, imo, being weak only to uncommon offensive types in the Meta (For now, at least). Its movepool is also as deep as the Mariana Trench, but be sure to run Energy Ball to KO Unaware Quag. You can run Ice Beam on the last slot to take care of Dragons, or Flamethrower to enable an almost impeccable coverage, missing out only on Dragons.

Last but not least, Baton Passing is deadly and undeniably easier in this Meta. Just be careful, because Talonflame can trap all the viable Baton Passers (Other than Smeargle maybe, which can Spore. But that too can be avoided with good prediction).

 

[perplexingpool]

Specs Boomburst does the same damage as Guts Facade, you have to decide to either be trapped on Boomburst (not that bad considering nothing is immune to it) or lose health every turn but being able to switch attacks

You also have to consider Swellow's other attacking options when choosing between Specs and Guts. On the special side, Swellow's only other options are Air Slash, Heat Wave, and Hidden Power, whereas on the physical side it gets a stronger Flying-type STAB in Brave Bird (however, the recoil combined with the burn damage and the SR weakness means it will kill itself pretty quickly), and utility in U-turn, and Quick Attack. However, Phyisical Swellow has no real way to touch Rock and Steel types.

 

[CactusCacti]

So have any of you guys abused Shaymin Sky yet?
Being able to keep its serene grace spam with the seed flare and air slash for nuinsance + access to tailwind support makes it a rather fine mon as long as ice shards are kept away.

I've been using modest tailwind + 3 attacks LO attacker and those seed flare spdef drops make this thing nearly impossible to wall.

 

[hornzbiddle]

Final gambit is about as cheap as it gets in this meta.

 

[Halliday]

Yes, I can see final gambit being banned, due to it essentially being gen4 explosion, but much more powerful.

 

[Michael91]

Yes, I can see final gambit being banned, due to it essentially being gen4 explosion, but much more powerful.

But you can use explosion with just a little bit of HP left. With final gambit, you usually have to use it before making any other moves if you want it to do a lot.

 

[tea_and_blues]

But you can use explosion with just a little bit of HP left. With final gambit, you usually have to use it before making any other moves if you want it to do a lot.

Yeah, but you're punished a LOT more for misprediction with explosion. Final gambit seems to me like a broken Eruption or Water Spout.

 

[Mercurial Burst]

Talonflame looks to be lethal in this meta. 180bp Priority coming from 328 attack and the best defensive stat being 328 means very few pokemon can survive against it. Although I suppose every thing having 100/100 defences helps. Also tremble in fear of the horror that is sableye. With useable stats.

Dude, ALL BASE STATS are 100! Talonflame will still have to be coming from the Base 100 attack stat for priority brave bird.

 

[Albacore]

Dude, ALL BASE STATS are 100! Talonflame will still have to be coming from the Base 100 attack stat for priority brave bird.

Your point being? You do know that Talonflame's base Attack increases in Averagemons, right?
The only way it's nerfed is in the speed departement. Which isn't all that much of a problem due to priority.

Unless you're actually defending Talonflame, but I honestly can't really tell.

 

[perplexingpool]

Yes, I can see final gambit being banned, due to it essentially being gen4 explosion, but much more powerful.

Nah, the reason Explosion was good is that you could use it at low HP to take out something at full health. If you use Final Gambit at low HP, you don't really do much.

 

[DinaIsha]

I understand that Mega Gengar was banned to Ubers because of its annoying ability to trap and kill with Perish Song. So why is it not banned in this tier?

One more thing I've noticed is the usage of Final Gambit to a large extent. In paper, if you have 5 things that have Final Gambit, you could KO 5 of the opponent's non-ghost Pokémon and try to KO the final mon with something OP like Talonflame or simply Toxic Stall with Unaware Quagsire. It kind of ruins the fun in the game as it's a guaranteed KO, because all mons have the same HP. So something with 252 HP investment and 252+ Speed with a Scarf can KO anything that is not a Ghost.

 

[Albacore]

I understand that Mega Gengar was banned to Ubers because of its annoying ability to trap and kill with Perish Song. So why is it not banned in this tier?

True. If anything, it's even better now with its additional bulk.

 

[SpartanMalice]

Your point being? You do know that Talonflame's base Attack increases tn Averagemons, right?
The only way it's nerfed is in the speed departement. Which isn't all that much of a problem due to priority.

Unless you're actually defending Talonflame, but I honestly can't really tell.

I think he might have confused the attack stat with investment (328) with the actual base stat. If not, I don't get it either.

 

[Klang]

I understand that Mega Gengar was banned to Ubers because of its annoying ability to trap and kill with Perish Song. So why is it not banned in this tier?

This. PerishTrap Gar is a monster and a half with the additional bulk it gets in Averagemons. 100 across the board makes it so much better than 60/65/80/170/95/130.

 

[DontStealMyPenguin]

I personally use murkrow as my perish trapper as it has roost and prankster, and it's pretty awesome. Perish trap gengar doesn't last that long and obviously it's nice to almost never be outsped, so I much prefer murkrow. Trust me it's seriously good.

 

[Edgar81539]

But Gengar can afford to trap immediately...

 

[Halliday]

Well, not really as you still have to waste the turn mega evolving on gengar, and murkrow is capable of healing off damage muchbetter than gengar. Gengar is better overall, though, imo.

 

[Golemman]

I personally use murkrow as my perish trapper as it has roost and prankster, and it's pretty awesome. Perish trap gengar doesn't last that long and obviously it's nice to almost never be outsped, so I much prefer murkrow. Trust me it's seriously good.

Whoa. I haven't battled any murkrows yet but now I'm scared to. Perish song, mean look, roost, and protect? Is that the set? You would need a strong OHKO, ghost, u-turn/volt switcher, or a taunt user to beat that.

 

[DontStealMyPenguin]

Sub, not protect, but yeah. Unlike gengar, it can actual heal, so it can perform the strategy over and over. Been using it since the start. In one game, how many pokemon can you perish trap with a gengar?

 

[Adrian Marin]

So I was looking for a Knock Off Sableye counter and that's when I discovered the potential of Mega Charizard-X as a good wall and attacker:

Stall (Charizard) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
- Earthquake / Flare Blitz
- Dragon Tail

This set is great for sponging Scald and avoiding burns in general, EQ is good for Heatrans attempting to wall it whereas Flare Blitz does a large amount of damage in a SE hit.

A sweeping set is also very powerful, especially with sun:

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 56 Spd / 200 HP
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance / Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Dragon Claw

Swords Dance is the superior choice in my opinion because with just 56 speed EV's you outspeed most of the metagame. It cannot 2HKO Unaware Clefable without sun and it will always fail to defeat Unaware Quagsire but besides its few counters this set is both sturdy and powerful.

EDIT: Credit goes to BurgerkKing99 for this set.

 

[Halliday]

You're welcome for suggesting it, by the way.

 

[Dazzaman]

Swirlix has access to belly drum and has unburden, and if you use a sitrus berry it can get to +6 attack and +2 speed very easily. The only thing that can beat it is priority.

This is the set i've decided to use

Swirlix @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Return
- Facade

I only use facade in the last slot because i can see no better physical move to take that slot, feel free to change it

 

[DontStealMyPenguin]

I've been using slurpuff with pretty much the exact same set lol

Amazing sweeper, especially because the common scarved ditto will never outspeed it whilst unburden is active. And belly drum isn't too hsrd to set up because fairy is a very good defensive type.

 

[Pikachuun]

Swirlix has access to belly drum and has unburden, and if you use a sitrus berry it can get to +6 attack and +2 speed very easily. The only thing that can beat it is priority.

This is the set i've decided to use

Swirlix @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Return
- Facade

I only use facade in the last slot because i can see no better physical move to take that slot, feel free to change it

Try flamethrower over facade to hit steels SE. It doesn't get boosted, but hey, I rather wouldn't get walled by something :P

 

[Edgar81539]

Try flamethrower over facade to hit steels SE. It doesn't get boosted, but hey, I rather wouldn't get walled by something :P

Slurpuff is one of the few pokemons that can defeat Sableye consistently, so Facade is there to use the burn against your enemy. I use a BellyPuff with Thief instead of return, though. Even if it has a low base power, it hits Steel/Psychic and another mons very hard, not to mention I can steal some Leftovers after activating Unburden, :P.