Ladder Balanced Hackmons

[Rumors]

Endless stall is one of those things that I don't understand why nothing has been done. I've said it about three times now: just ban Heal Pulse and be done with it. Heal Pulse's only theoretical legit use is to bounce it off an opposing Magic Bouncer to heal yourself, but that's completely pointless when Recover and its clones exist. That move is the crux to the majority of the infinite stall strategies. So, banning it kills a lot of those while having zero impact on any legit strategy.

Banning duplicate moves on the same moveset (say Tackle/Tackle/Tackle/Recover), kills a bunch of whatever's left over and also has zero impact on legit strategies.


As for Imposter, as someone who only uses it as filler in experimental teams and on a dedicated PP stall team, where it's just filler on a less-than-experimental team, I can safely say you can scout and check things without it, set-up sweepers included. Heck, some of my newer teams don't even run Unaware. The keyword to remember in set-up sweepers is set-up. If you don't let them set-up, they'll have trouble accomplishing much.

I'm not a fan of Imposter and wouldn't be sad to see it go since I feel it's stifling the tier. I mean, why try to come up with better ways to scout or control momentum when you can just throw an Eviolite Chansey at the problem? On the other hand, Imposter is not a priority of mine. I'd rather much look at Sturdinja, who auto-wins any match-up that is not against a check or counter, requires multiple checks and/or counters to reliably handle if the Sturdinja user is competent, and pretty much auto-wins the game for the user if those checks and counters are gone, whereas even nasty stuff like Refrige Kyu-B can be beaten without dedicated checks and counters via smart play.

Then there's mega-stones that let Pokemon use banned abilities. The abilities are banned for a reason and the loophole is silly and doesn't even make sense. Why is Medicham-Mega allowed to use Huge Power but not Azumarill? Why is Gengar-Mega allowed to use Shadow Tag but not Wobbufett? Especially when, in both cases, the former is much more dangerous than the latter. I think the offending mega-stones need to be banned, though the mega-mons themselves can stay.

But let's worry about stones and undead bugs later. The conversation is running in too many directions as is. Illusion, Imposter, and infini-stall is broad enough.

 

[Arcticblast]

oh my god stop stop STOP

 

[0pr4h]

After lurking and testing I found a few great sweepers, and going in order of most effective, they are listed below:

1. Aerodactyl-Mega @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Belly Drum
- ExtremeSpeed
- Diamond Storm

This is my personal lead: I Spore, and if the foe has Magic Bounce, my Lum Berry cures it, and I will have discovered their lead's ability. It also cures prankster Teeter Dance (bypasses Magic Bounce) and Swagger, in addition to other any other status. Next, I follow up with Belly Drum on their switch, and then can hit first if I predict priority or if they are faster (like Deoxys-Speed), or Diamond Storm for a 50% chance to boost his Defense. I have 248 HP EVs so Aerodactyl has an odd HP in case it needs to switch out and do the process (Belly Drum) again.

2. Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Boomburst
- Spore

This is another Pokemon with the same concept, except Gardevoir can finally have a good use over Xerneus. It can Prankster Spore to put the foe to sleep. Then the following turn it has 2 choices, it can Shell Smash as Gardevoir, or it can Mega Evolve as it Shell Smashes.

Keep in mind, the reason to stay as a regular Gardevoir is to scout. For example, say the foe switches out to a counter after the Spore, and sends in a Mega Scizor with Bullet Punch. Now with -1 Def, and a weakness to Steel, you will have to switch out Gardevoir to preserve it until you get another opportunity to Spore, Shell Smash, and then Mega Evolve the turn you use Boomburst. This means you can keep the priority sleep.

Still, it may be better to Mega Gardevoir on the Shell Smash turn. For one, if you know Mega Gardevoir's increased Defense and Special Defense stats (Gale Wings prioritizes Special Attack Flying moves) allow it to take priority moves good enough to just keep sweeping without fear of a KO. Another example is your opponent is a Grass type, or has Safety Goggles, and since you cannot Spore it, you know you can Mega Evolve Gardevoir to prevent Shell Smash from going first (removing Prankster), and take the hit with the Mega Gardevoir defenses before the Defense and Special Defense drop from Shell Smash. Now with the Shell Smash activated, you can sweep going first and a Pixelated Boomburst to sweep foes.

The main advantage over Xerneus: Can use a Modest Nature thanks to Prankster Spore. STAB Stored Power for good dual STAB coverage, resistant to Psychic, and more resistant to Fighting types. (Trust me, being able to have Gardevoir switch into Stored Power users has paid off, especially since I can Prankster Spore them and begin the sweep).

Don't worry, Fairy STAB handles Dark types immune to Psychic, while Stored Power STAB handles Poison types resistant to Fairy. Steel types still take plenty of damage from a 165 Base Special Attack +2 Boomburst, and if you manage to achieve another Shell Smash, then Stored Power is even more powerful.

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Spore
- Belly Drum
- ExtremeSpeed

The same concept here, except you have to be careful when it comes to lower Speed. I use Fake-out + Speed Boost to get +1 Speed, and then I Spore the foe the following turn. I don't use Prankster because Pinsir wont be getting any Speed since it is using Belly Drum, not Shell Smash, and unlike Mega Aerodactyl, it isn't naturally that fast. The +1 Speed is so that base 105 Mega Pinsir can outpace other Extreme Speed users, especially since it is maximizing its Attack with an Adamant nature. You will be surprised how much damage even a resisted Extreme Speed does (156 Base Power) after a Belly Drum.

Heatran @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Quiver Dance
- Doom Desire
- Blue Flare

I loved this set back in BH Gen V when Sun wouldn't wear off, but having a 50% chance to recover the Sitrus Berry is still very usable. The best part if being able to Substitute against a Dragon Tail user like Lugia, and plan to hit the Unaware versions with a Blue Flare and Doom Desire in the same turn. Don't worry, since Unaware doesn't affect the Speed stat, they will take the Doom Desire at the end of the turn, and then you, going first from Quiver Dance, will hit them first the following turn before they can use Roost. Anyways, this set also works to let you break Substitutes with Blue Flare and hit the foe during the end of the same turn with Doom Desire. Doom Desire does have the 1 use per 3 turns drawback, but between setting up Substitute, and using Quiver Dance, you can find ways to take advantage of a 140 Base Power STAB move.

 

[Piccolo Daimao]

After lurking and testing I found a few great sweepers, and going in order of most effective, they are listed below:

1. Aerodactyl-Mega @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Belly Drum
- ExtremeSpeed
- Diamond Storm

This is my personal lead: I Spore, and if the foe has Magic Bounce, my Lum Berry cures it, and I will have discovered their lead's ability. It also cures prankster Teeter Dance (bypasses Magic Bounce) and Swagger, in addition to other any other status. Next, I follow up with Belly Drum on their switch, and then can hit first if I predict priority or if they are faster (like Deoxys-Speed), or Diamond Storm for a 50% chance to boost his Defense. I have 248 HP EVs so Aerodactyl has an odd HP in case it needs to switch out and do the process (Belly Drum) again.

2. Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Boomburst
- Spore

This is another Pokemon with the same concept, except Gardevoir can finally have a good use over Xerneus. It can Prankster Spore to put the foe to sleep. Then the following turn it has 2 choices, it can Shell Smash as Gardevoir, or it can Mega Evolve as it Shell Smashes.

Keep in mind, the reason to stay as a regular Gardevoir is to scout. For example, say the foe switches out to a counter after the Spore, and sends in a Mega Scizor with Bullet Punch. Now with -1 Def, and a weakness to Steel, you will have to switch out Gardevoir to preserve it until you get another opportunity to Spore, Shell Smash, and then Mega Evolve the turn you use Boomburst. This means you can keep the priority sleep.

Still, it may be better to Mega Gardevoir on the Shell Smash turn. For one, if you know Mega Gardevoir's increased Defense and Special Defense stats (Gale Wings prioritizes Special Attack Flying moves) allow it to take priority moves good enough to just keep sweeping without fear of a KO. Another example is your opponent is a Grass type, or has Safety Goggles, and since you cannot Spore it, you know you can Mega Evolve Gardevoir to prevent Shell Smash from going first (removing Prankster), and take the hit with the Mega Gardevoir defenses before the Defense and Special Defense drop from Shell Smash. Now with the Shell Smash activated, you can sweep going first and a Pixelated Boomburst to sweep foes.

The main advantage over Xerneus: Can use a Modest Nature thanks to Prankster Spore. STAB Stored Power for good dual STAB coverage, resistant to Psychic, and more resistant to Fighting types. (Trust me, being able to have Gardevoir switch into Stored Power users has paid off, especially since I can Prankster Spore them and begin the sweep).

Don't worry, Fairy STAB handles Dark types immune to Psychic, while Stored Power STAB handles Poison types resistant to Fairy. Steel types still take plenty of damage from a 165 Base Special Attack +2 Boomburst, and if you manage to achieve another Shell Smash, then Stored Power is even more powerful.

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Spore
- Belly Drum
- ExtremeSpeed

The same concept here, except you have to be careful when it comes to lower Speed. I use Fake-out + Speed Boost to get +1 Speed, and then I Spore the foe the following turn. I don't use Prankster because Pinsir wont be getting any Speed since it is using Belly Drum, not Shell Smash, and unlike Mega Aerodactyl, it isn't naturally that fast. The +1 Speed is so that base 105 Mega Pinsir can outpace other Extreme Speed users, especially since it is maximizing its Attack with an Adamant nature. You will be surprised how much damage even a resisted Extreme Speed does (156 Base Power) after a Belly Drum.

Heatran @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Quiver Dance
- Doom Desire
- Blue Flare

I loved this set back in BH Gen V when Sun wouldn't wear off, but having a 50% chance to recover the Sitrus Berry is still very usable. The best part if being able to Substitute against a Dragon Tail user like Lugia, and plan to hit the Unaware versions with a Blue Flare and Doom Desire in the same turn. Don't worry, since Unaware doesn't affect the Speed stat, they will take the Doom Desire at the end of the turn, and then you, going first from Quiver Dance, will hit them first the following turn before they can use Roost. Anyways, this set also works to let you break Substitutes with Blue Flare and hit the foe during the end of the same turn with Doom Desire. Doom Desire does have the 1 use per 3 turns drawback, but between setting up Substitute, and using Quiver Dance, you can find ways to take advantage of a 140 Base Power STAB move.

On the subject of Chansey...

This is one of the most pro Imposter teams I've ever seen. No offense, but seriously. If Chansey impostered your Dactyl after the Belly Drum, well, you can say goodbye to your team. Same with Smash Gardevoir and Belly Drum Pinsir. These sets would all be destroyed by Chansey. Belly Drum is not recommended in BH due to Imposters copying the boost with no health loss. However, besides this, they are very good sweepers, and probably would destroy any team without a Chansey.

 

[Pikachuun]

After lurking and testing I found a few great sweepers, and going in order of most effective, they are listed below:

1. Aerodactyl-Mega @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Belly Drum
- ExtremeSpeed
- Diamond Storm

This is my personal lead: I Spore, and if the foe has Magic Bounce, my Lum Berry cures it, and I will have discovered their lead's ability. It also cures prankster Teeter Dance (bypasses Magic Bounce) and Swagger, in addition to other any other status. Next, I follow up with Belly Drum on their switch, and then can hit first if I predict priority or if they are faster (like Deoxys-Speed), or Diamond Storm for a 50% chance to boost his Defense. I have 248 HP EVs so Aerodactyl has an odd HP in case it needs to switch out and do the process (Belly Drum) again.

2. Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Boomburst
- Spore

This is another Pokemon with the same concept, except Gardevoir can finally have a good use over Xerneus. It can Prankster Spore to put the foe to sleep. Then the following turn it has 2 choices, it can Shell Smash as Gardevoir, or it can Mega Evolve as it Shell Smashes.

Keep in mind, the reason to stay as a regular Gardevoir is to scout. For example, say the foe switches out to a counter after the Spore, and sends in a Mega Scizor with Bullet Punch. Now with -1 Def, and a weakness to Steel, you will have to switch out Gardevoir to preserve it until you get another opportunity to Spore, Shell Smash, and then Mega Evolve the turn you use Boomburst. This means you can keep the priority sleep.

Still, it may be better to Mega Gardevoir on the Shell Smash turn. For one, if you know Mega Gardevoir's increased Defense and Special Defense stats (Gale Wings prioritizes Special Attack Flying moves) allow it to take priority moves good enough to just keep sweeping without fear of a KO. Another example is your opponent is a Grass type, or has Safety Goggles, and since you cannot Spore it, you know you can Mega Evolve Gardevoir to prevent Shell Smash from going first (removing Prankster), and take the hit with the Mega Gardevoir defenses before the Defense and Special Defense drop from Shell Smash. Now with the Shell Smash activated, you can sweep going first and a Pixelated Boomburst to sweep foes.

The main advantage over Xerneus: Can use a Modest Nature thanks to Prankster Spore. STAB Stored Power for good dual STAB coverage, resistant to Psychic, and more resistant to Fighting types. (Trust me, being able to have Gardevoir switch into Stored Power users has paid off, especially since I can Prankster Spore them and begin the sweep).

Don't worry, Fairy STAB handles Dark types immune to Psychic, while Stored Power STAB handles Poison types resistant to Fairy. Steel types still take plenty of damage from a 165 Base Special Attack +2 Boomburst, and if you manage to achieve another Shell Smash, then Stored Power is even more powerful.

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Spore
- Belly Drum
- ExtremeSpeed

The same concept here, except you have to be careful when it comes to lower Speed. I use Fake-out + Speed Boost to get +1 Speed, and then I Spore the foe the following turn. I don't use Prankster because Pinsir wont be getting any Speed since it is using Belly Drum, not Shell Smash, and unlike Mega Aerodactyl, it isn't naturally that fast. The +1 Speed is so that base 105 Mega Pinsir can outpace other Extreme Speed users, especially since it is maximizing its Attack with an Adamant nature. You will be surprised how much damage even a resisted Extreme Speed does (156 Base Power) after a Belly Drum.

Heatran @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Quiver Dance
- Doom Desire
- Blue Flare

I loved this set back in BH Gen V when Sun wouldn't wear off, but having a 50% chance to recover the Sitrus Berry is still very usable. The best part if being able to Substitute against a Dragon Tail user like Lugia, and plan to hit the Unaware versions with a Blue Flare and Doom Desire in the same turn. Don't worry, since Unaware doesn't affect the Speed stat, they will take the Doom Desire at the end of the turn, and then you, going first from Quiver Dance, will hit them first the following turn before they can use Roost. Anyways, this set also works to let you break Substitutes with Blue Flare and hit the foe during the end of the same turn with Doom Desire. Doom Desire does have the 1 use per 3 turns drawback, but between setting up Substitute, and using Quiver Dance, you can find ways to take advantage of a 140 Base Power STAB move.

Besides the obvious "Your team is imposter bait" statement, all of these set-up sweepers are walled by Unaware [In the case of your "Unaware-proof" tran, Unaware Darm-Z/Victini takes a giant dump on it]. Also, what if your opponent has safety goggles? You can say goodbye to whatever relied on spore. In addition, a Fridge Kyurem-Black with Thousand Arrows and Safety Goggles single-handedly destroys 3 out of 4 of these team members. The only exception is Gardevoir, which can be dealt with by Prankster *insert good user here* with Topsy-Turvy or Haze after you mega-evolve. If you don't mega-evolve, you lack bulk and can get revenge-killed by the above Kyub.

 

[Rumors]

Not really just Chansey. None of those sweepers have an answer to Sheddy, which safely forces all of them out even if it only knows Splash. Additionally, Bounce Aggron doesn't care about that Aerodactyl or Pinsir set.

+6 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Aerodactyl Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Aggron: 162-191 (47 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO

+6 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Aggron: 179-211 (52 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's a neutral nature. And it still can stall out with just Recover. Assuming Pinsir doesn't put itself to sleep first from Bounce. Neither Aero nor Pinsir are particularly bulky, and the latter is 4x weak to rocks, so they're going to have trouble setting up since they need to switch in safely and then survive the first hit.

Also worth pointing out that priority is determined after all commands are inputted and are only changed by very select few moves, like Quash. As such, Megavolving on the turn you use Shell Smash with that Gardevoir set will still cause you to have priority Shell Smash because Prankster gave you +1 priority to it, which means you get a smaller boost and are still vulnerable to attack either way.

Also also, that Heatran is walled by a FF Steel type. Scizor, Aegislash, Aggron, Registeel... Or just any Kyogre or Darm-Z.


These can be dangerous since they boost to very high levels, but they have a lot of weaknesses that you would have to address with some serious team synergy to overcome. Otherwise Chansey, Sheddy, or an Unaware are just going to rain on your parade.

 

[0pr4h]

To be fair these are not on just one team. Even in BH you can only have 1 regular pokemon evolve into a mega evolution. (Although you can have as many pokemon start in their mega form), so obviously I cannot use Pinsir and Gardevoir in the same team to mega evolve, though I can pair them with the Mega Aerodactyl.

In your analysis of my pokemon vs Mega Aggron, you did not factor in the adamant and modest natures, which given the boosts would significantly affect the damage output and calculations. Even if you have Megs Aggron a plus defense or special defense nature, the x4 attack boost with the adamant nature factored in would surpass the defense boost of Mega Aggron. Also Mega Aggron's Special Defense is not that high, so I am wondering how well it would deal with a +2 Stab Boomburst.
If anything, the fact that these are 2HKOs demonstrated Mega Aggron is merely a check rather than a counter to these sweepers, able to come in as a revenge kill, but not through mere switching into.

Here is how I handle Imposter users on my aero heatran and gardevoir team: Shedinja, and unaware assault vest dialga. Also keep in mind my gardevoir can prankster spore the imposter heatran, and aero, while my heatran can come in on mega gardevoir thanks to its resistances and Sitrus berry and doom desire it. Shell smash negates the eviolite and if I predict a Spore my last Pokemon is Magic Bounce Aegislash.

The reason I mentioned heatran to counter Gardevoir is because I would by typing alone force it to spore heatran rather than attack it, allowing me to switch to magic bounce aegislash to put it to sleep.

Keep in mind I did not give heatran a positive nature in special attack or special defense because I didn't want imposter users to take advantage of quiver dance, and imposter users cannot take advantage of sitris berry, nor can they imposter heatran while behind a sub.

 

[Rumors]

If you post a group of mons, you should make it clear that they're not all on the same team to avoid confusion. Otherwise, people will assume they are since synergistic pairs, cores, and whole teams get posted from time to time.

I did factor Adamant. Note the 252+. The calcs are Adamant vs neutral Aggron. And I didn't pair it against Gardevoir or Heatran because Aggron's low Sp. Def makes it a clear loss, especially against Heatran, and your opponent will likely have a different answer to special sweepers anyway, like AV Darm-Z. However, the fact that Aggron can take the +6 Extreme Speeds at about 50% means it can safely wall them long enough to stall your PP out, especially if it has Leftovers or a Protect-esque move too (or both). And if you want to keep your PP, it means switching out, losing your boost and revealing your win condition too early.

Also, if two of your mons check each other, then that means the Imposter checks your check too. For example, Imposter Heatran can simply sub up to avoid Spore and then blast your Gardevoir with Doom Desire. And if your Gardevoir is already mega-volved, then a +1 Heatran can likely outspeed it (I've not done speed comparisons, so I might be wrong). Meanwhile, Imposter Gardevoir can simply Spore your own Heatran if you've not subbed up (and if it still has Prankster or has copied your Smash boost, you won't be able to). Not that your Heatran can take a +4 base 260 attack anyway.

+4 252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 576-678 (149.2 - 175.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Also, your Dialga is a bad answer too.

252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Unaware Dialga: 187-222 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

Neither of them can safely switch in. (+4 Boomburst cleanly 2HKOs your Heatran and Stored Power falls just short of a 2HKO on Dialga, leaving it likely to be KOed by the follow-up Boomburst. Hence, if you lose Sheddy, which is easy if your opponent has gotten hazards up and is not giving you the chance to safely remove them, you lose to your own sweeper. (Not to mention, if they have Sheddy and they're competent, you have no offensive momentum since you're relying on it to counter all of your own sweepers).

I don't know what your sixth member is, but you may want to adjust your team a little bit. A Soundproof Dark-type with Safety Goggles would hard wall your Gardevoir, for example, and its set could be tailored to a number of possible uses outside of simply stopping Imposter Gard.

 

[Lcass4919]

i will just step out and say ive used soundproof perishtrapping yveltal along with pixie boomburst psystrike mega mewtwo y with earthpower coverage, and it gets the job done, while also helping against mega gengar in scaring it out, and hitting it hard with thousand waves, and it will definatly work as a deadstop to your gardevoir. but thats just me promoting my sets yet again.

Oh, and if people ask why i used mega mewtwo y, is that it was faster, and has suprise factor, its not as powerful as gardivoir...but you try switching something in on a tail glowed boomburst that outspeeds 80% of the meta, not that easy without unaware/shedinja
+3 252 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Mega Mewtwo Y Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 374-440 (53.1 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO not even chanseys safe from the 2hko. but obviously you dont want to risk the speed tie. lol.

sorry to double post, but to spare having to make a long as hell editing post, ill make a "i promise ill never do it again" and hope i dont get the plauge or something...to make it up, ill post a set i randomly came up with as a "pseudo imposterproof set" now, this set isnt really imposterproof, but it is alot easier for you to counter then most pokes with this much power.


Aerodactyl-Mega @ Flame Orb
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Spore/trick
- Roost
- Swords Dance/infestation

meet the worst set in all existance...or is it? now, before i get billions of posts telling me i'm doing pokemon's wrong, hear me out, first. as most people can tell by now, yes, it is carrying a flame orb. and yes...it is a aerialate set. whats so special about this? is that its attack is essentially doubled then halved due to the burn...last generation that is. this gen, facade has received a very odd-yet-epic buff in that when somethings burned, it negates the burns halving effect for facade. now that ive told you this. i can allready see the horror in your eyes. this thing...is a goddamn monster. fast...powerful...take away all the steel types in the feild and i guarentee, theres nothing thats staying in on this thing. some calcs for the nonbeleivers:

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Aerodactyl Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 388-457 (76.9 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Aerodactyl Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 303-357 (72.8 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

okay, it doesnt have the power of specs boomburst...or anything, but it is a fearsome fast cleaner that can use walls who try to block it as setup fodder since other then mega aggron, they cant take an onslought of hard hits

+4 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Aerodactyl Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 271-319 (74.4 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Aerodactyl Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Aggron: 176-207 (51.1 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

now, before you say "getting to plus 4 is kinda a stretch when burn damage takes its toll on you" and well...whats going to revenge kill it? other then kyube and other fake out users and the rare scarf users? and the best part of this set, is it AND kyurem, and to an extent xern are walled by bounce mega aggron

+6 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Aerodactyl Facade vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Aggron: 129-152 (37.5 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
that is the HARDEST, it can hit you(barring toxic orb chansey...so beware). and you can just spam gear grinds/whirlwind and make it go away.
definatly not a wallbreaker like kyurem w, and definatly not as good of a cleaner as kyurem b, but this thing gets the best of both worlds and imo, makes it worthy of a teamslot.

Arcticblast edit: I can merge posts, you're good

 

[0pr4h]

I did say they were a list of most effective sweepers from descending order, so I didn't suggest a team.

To be fair you exaggerated Heatran's damage by 1. Giving Gardevoir +4 instead of +2 (it isn't using Simple) 2. The +4 to SpA, Spe, and Atk also falsely provides a bloated Stored Power base power.

Keep in mind for the future calculations for the adjusted realistic amounts, Sitrus Berry will activate and heal 25% instantly, with a 50% chance to reactive and heal another 25% in the same turn if it doesn't heal back up above 50% which isn't likely when instead of a resisted +4 390 base power Stored Power, it will be after 1 shell smash a resisted +2 210 (+2, +2, +2 = +6 x 20 = 120 + 20 from the original power = 140 x 1.5 for STAB) base power Stored Power.

Further, you gave the calculations for a Boomburst on Dialga, and then mention "Stored Power falls just short of a 2HKO on Dialga, leaving it likely to be KOed by the follow-up Boomburst", first of all Stored Power is 105 base power when resisted after a single Shell Smash (210 / 2 when resisted), whilst Boomburst is 273 based power. So based on the base Power alone, Stored power is about 38% as strong as Boomburst, meaning it would do 21% max to Dialga.

Anyways, your calculations assume Dialga switches in on Boomburst and takes the hit 2x in a row, rather than if Dialga comes in after I test to see if my Mega Gardevoir can Spore the foe's Imposter Blissey and break the Speed tie (and if so, I will continue to sweep since there is no Sleep Clause, I can Shell Smash in Imposter Blissey's sleeping face, and then Boomburst it). If Blissey wins the Speed tie and Boombursts my Mega Gardevoir for the KO then my Dialga comes in at full HP, and then takes the Boomburst for say 55% (your max damage calculations) while Dialga retaliates with a STAB move to KO Gardevoir. Dialga counters the Imposter Blissey, as I have no motivation to switch from Mega Gardevoir to Dialga if I can just win the Speed tie. If the Imposter Blissey tries to Spore my Gardevoir to force a switch, I can simply stay in in case my Gardevoir wakes up as it tries to Shell Smash up. Either way, Dialga comes in at full HP, not suddenly switching into a Boomburst. Here is the moveset so it is clear how Dialga handles Imposters:

Gear Grind, Nuzzle, Bonemerang, Draco Meteor. I hit Heatran Imposters with a super effective Bonemerang to break subs and hit 4x effective, Gear Grind to KO Imposter Aerodactyl and Gardevor, and Nuzzle other foes to make it easier for my teamamtes to sweep. Draco Meteor is a last minute wallop.

 

[AWailOfATail]

I did say they were a list of most effective sweepers from descending order, so I didn't suggest a team.

To be fair you exaggerated Heatran's damage by 1. Giving Gardevoir +4 instead of +2 (it isn't using Simple) 2. The +4 to SpA, Spe, and Atk also falsely provides a bloated Stored Power base power.

Keep in mind for the future calculations for the adjusted realistic amounts, Sitrus Berry will activate and heal 25% instantly, with a 50% chance to reactive and heal another 25% in the same turn if it doesn't heal back up above 50% which isn't likely when instead of a resisted +4 390 base power Stored Power, it will be after 1 shell smash a resisted +2 210 (+2, +2, +2 = +6 x 20 = 120 + 20 from the original power = 140 x 1.5 for STAB) base power Stored Power.

Further, you gave the calculations for a Boomburst on Dialga, and then mention "Stored Power falls just short of a 2HKO on Dialga, leaving it likely to be KOed by the follow-up Boomburst", first of all Stored Power is 105 base power when resisted after a single Shell Smash (210 / 2 when resisted), whilst Boomburst is 273 based power. So based on the base Power alone, Stored power is about 38% as strong as Boomburst, meaning it would do 21% max to Dialga.

Anyways, your calculations assume Dialga switches in on Boomburst and takes the hit 2x in a row, rather than if Dialga comes in after I test to see if my Mega Gardevoir can Spore the foe's Imposter Blissey and break the Speed tie (and if so, I will continue to sweep since there is no Sleep Clause, I can Shell Smash in Imposter Blissey's sleeping face, and then Boomburst it). If Blissey wins the Speed tie and Boombursts my Mega Gardevoir for the KO then my Dialga comes in at full HP, and then takes the Boomburst for say 55% (your max damage calculations) while Dialga retaliates with a STAB move to KO Gardevoir. Dialga counters the Imposter Blissey, as I have no motivation to switch from Mega Gardevoir to Dialga if I can just win the Speed tie. If the Imposter Blissey tries to Spore my Gardevoir to force a switch, I can simply stay in in case my Gardevoir wakes up as it tries to Shell Smash up. Either way, Dialga comes in at full HP, not suddenly switching into a Boomburst. Here is the moveset so it is clear how Dialga handles Imposters:

Meteor Mash, Nuzzle, Bonemerang, Draco Meteor. I hit Heatran Imposters with a super effective Bonemerang to break subs and hit 4x effective, Meteor Mash to 1HKO Imposter Aerodactyl and Gardevor, and Nuzzle other foes to make it easier for my opponents to sweep. Draco Meteor is a last minute wallop.

The way I see it (since I know how destructive Mega-Garde can be), there'd be no way a regular non-Unaware Dialga could live a +2 Boomburst. So it'd obviously be Unaware. Now, with the Dialga you mentioned, what's to stop the Imposter from using Spore? Absolutely nothing. What I think might work better is having Safety Goggles instead of an Assault Vest. This way, you still don't get OHKOd even if you weren't +SpD (252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Unaware Dialga: 307-363 (75.9 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). This also allows you to actually run recovery on Dialga, helping it in the long run. I'd personally get rid of Draco, but hey, it's your team. In fact, you don't even have to take this suggestion.

Also you could just run Unaware Darm-Z (Boomburst does like 38%) and just Heart Swap and Baton Pass the boosts but idk how well it would sync with your team. Or be gimmicky and run a Soundproof Dark type and not take any damage at all from it.

 

[0pr4h]

I agree, however, Darm-Z is weak to STAB Diamond Storm from Aerodactyl, even without the boosts, it will do base 300 damage (with STAB & it being Super Effective) off an Adamant Mega Aero's 405 attack. Soundproof Safety Goggle Dark types are not going to stand up to Belly Drum Aerodactyl since they would lack Unaware. SO Dialga can handle Aerodactyl, and I need a separate counter for Gardevoir in Darm-Z. Steel types and Tyranitar are weak to Heatran's STAB, so basically, if I remove Heatran, I can better counter all Imposters.

 

[Rumors]

Right, I made a mistake there since most Mega-volving Gards are Simple and I was in a bit of a rush. So correct calc:

+2 252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 207-243 (53.6 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The calculator doesn't account for Sitrus for some reason and it also doesn't have Harvest as an ability. So, assuming min damage each hit, you're at 71 after switching in. 17.8 next turn unless you harvest a berry, at which you're 42.8 and in KO range. Unless you get two berries, but if I'm calcing independent probability right, you only have a 25% chance to Harvest a berry on both turns. So if you get lucky on damage rolls and Harvest, you can PP stall the 140 BP Stored Power.

I didn't account for Heatran trying to Sub-stall or Quiver Dance since the Imposter can, and probably will, just Spore Heatran. It may boost even more while its slept, in which case you'll be in trouble if Sheddy isn't able to get in for some reason.

Almost suggested Bisharp as a possible Imposter check since I know Flint used it successfully in the past and it resists both Aerliate and Stored Power, but Gard OHKOs with unboosted Boomburst if Unaware and Aero OHKOs with boosted Extreme Speed if Soundproof, so that one's out.

 

[0pr4h]

Again, as I explained in my other post you are assuming I switch in Heatran. What if I go for the gardevoir speed tie and try to Spore? Say I win and continue to Shell Smash and Boomburst Chansey as it sleeps...
Say it wins and Spores my Gardevoir, Heatran will probably switch into a Shell Smash or a 4x resist Boomburst because my sleeping Gardevoir resists Stored Power and either way, Boomburst is stronger in base power than Stored Power for the first Shell Smash.

At this point it will likely Spore my Heatran, where I can switch to Magic Guard Aegislash which I mentioned was my final Pokemon. Anyways, worst case scenario, say I mispredict the Spore and it Boombursts my Aegislash as I switch it in. Then I can switch to Shedinja as it tries to Boomburst it for the 2HKO, and let Lum Berry cure my Shedinja as I take the predicted Spore if it stays in and Endeavor + Ice Shard it.

AGAIN, this is worst case scenario...
In all likelihood they Boomburst my Gardevoir if I lose the speed tie to attempt to sweep my team (in case they fear I switch to a Magic Bouncer on their Spore attempt on my Gardevoir). Then my Heatran comes in and forces a Spore, and then I go to Aegislash for the Magic Bounce.

Otherwise I guess I should use Unaware Safety Googles Heatran instead of Harvest, cutting out the Shell Smash and Belly Drum boost, resisting Extreme Speed Aerilate and taking neutral from Diamond Storm. Also since it resists Pixelate Boomburst 4x, it wouldn't need Soundproof.

 

[Piccolo Daimao]

Going back to the Chansey argument,

I saw -Talent- using a team that had 3 Mewtwo Mega Xs, one Mewtwo Mega Y, and 2 chanseys. And it was decently anti imposter. I decided I wanted to try to make a team like that, and came up with one that had reasonable success. I've been playing around with it, and I'm not very happy with one of the MMXs, but besides that, it's a really interesting and effective team.

Anyways, the most interesting bit of it is how Talent walled the MMY. I don't remember the exact set (I might not have ever known it in the first place, can't remember), but he walled it with Chansey. He walled it with one of his Imposters. So if someone Imposter'd his MMY, they would find themselves up against Chansey, the bulkiest special wall in the game. So if you have special sweepers (don't use Psystrike or Secret Sword, as Chansey can't wall those) you can wall them with your own Imposter. I'm not kidding:

252+ SpA Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 390-460 (55.3 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

Also, the Imposter isn't going to use resisted Aura Sphere on MMY the first turn, so you get a safer switch to Chansey. You just give her Metal Burst and kill the Imposter, or Soft Boiled and stall it out of moves. I prefer the latter, but that is my personal preference.

I picked up another technique from my friend Saucier that I used to make one of my MMX self walling.

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Infestation
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Bolt Strike

The ability and moves are kind of filler, and I'm not very happy with the moveset (need to work on that a bit), but the idea is that this set has 4 contact moves, a trapping move, and a Rocky Helmet. The set uses Infestation and traps Chansey, while also providing the residual damage that makes this set work. I need to change the moves so they are more accurate and do less damage, because at the current moment, a crit on me or a miss on Chansey throws this set off. The idea behind this set is that Chansey is trapped and forced to die of residual damage (Infest + Helmet) and damage from the original Mewtwo. The Regenerator was thrown in there because killing Chansey is quite taxing on its health, often bringing the set down to 10% or lower. Also, Regenerator lets it switch in and out of rocks and other hazards, and switch back in if needed. (Note: Saucier's original set was a Heracross-Mega, which might work better due to more bulk and slightly less attack. Plus the STABs are resisted. Also, if the original Mewtwo of this set dies, it is quickly forced out/killed (if it decides to stay in) by the Protean MMY that outspeeds and does 40-50% with Moonblast.

Anyways, my earlier arguments still apply, I'm just giving examples of cool ways of dealing with Chansey.

Edit: Sorry, forgot about Arctic's post telling us to stop. However, this post has value outside of the Chansey argument because it has interesting sets.

 

[CactusCacti]

You could also run furcoat as ability or rough skin (two edged sword but kills chansey faster) if you want to.
Furcoat helps to safe health and also lets you run more powerful moves.
But then it loses to hazard damage, but if you have a team that keeps em away well enough, no hurt in trying.


For more intresting ways to trap chanseys and kill em to be imposter proof, there's always ways to bluff and do other dirty tricks
And old I used for trapping chanset once was a soundproof user with boomburst, parting shot, recovery and thousand waves. PP kills the chansey pretty well.
And then there's the fugitive as seen in some pages back
Magnet Pull trap is always fun way to kill it (needs two mons to pull off tho)

If you specially like statting up in your team, it is good to make have a backup that resists the moves and is able to hearth swap the stats for reusing.


And last but not least one of my favorite moves makes imposters piss their pants:
Spite.

 

[Fossil_Maniac_27]

I'm kinda new here so I don't know if this is the right place to post this or not, but I was wondering if I could get my team for BH rated. Everything has 252 evs unless otherwise noted. I listed as Nature, Ability, Pokemon so, here it is
Impish, Prakster, Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Spikes, Spore, Toxic Spikes, Explosion

Mild, Contrary, Kingdra @ Wiseglasses
Draco Meteor, V-Create, Psycho Boost, Baton Pass

Adamant, Speed Boost, Kabutops @ Life Orb
Protect, Stone Edge, Waterfall, Rapid spin

Jolly, Sturdy, Shedinja @ Lum Berry
X-Scissor, Shadow Claw, Swords Dance, Spore

Modest, Levitate, Magnezone @ Expert Belt
Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Flash Cannon, Psychic

Brave Flash Fire Ferrothorn ( 0 speed evs or ivs) @ Assault Vest
Power Whip, Gyro Ball, Rapid Spin, Waterfall

Basically, Ninjask acts as a suicide lead to set up SR and TS, then explodes. After that, there is no real strategy, other than get rid of entry hazards for obvious reasons. Originally, Shedinja had safety goggles, but after 2 or 3 times getting burned by sacred fire I switched to lum berry, as I haven't encountered any weather yet. I was mainly wondering:
a) Is it worth having 2 rapid spinners?
b) Are there better moves or pokes I could use.
I kinda threw this team together quickly, but I think I've won like 2 or 3 more than I've lost with it.

 

[Halliday]

Your team is really bad. Kingdra is worse than palkia, ninjask is worse than everything ,shed prefers smash, and prefers endeavor even more. Magnezone is bad, and I don't see the point of it. Ferro does nothing for your team, either. You should look into the BH mentoring program, so that you can learn a bit more about the tier, and how to play it. I know I come off as mean, but I said none of those things in order to be mean - I said them because there is a lot of room for improvement.

 

[skies]

I'm kinda new here so I don't know if this is the right place to post this or not, but I was wondering if I could get my team for BH rated. Everything has 252 evs unless otherwise noted. I listed as Nature, Ability, Pokemon so, here it is
Impish, Prakster, Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Spikes, Spore, Toxic Spikes, Explosion

I don't like this for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Ninjask sucks, Deoxys-S outclasses it by miles. With so many Poison Heal Pokemon running about, Toxic Spikes is also not the greatest. Explosion is way gimmicky honestly and isn't that good, while Magic Bounce is extremely common as well. This set is easily set up on and is just flat out not that amazing.

Mild, Contrary, Kingdra @ Wiseglasses
Draco Meteor, V-Create, Psycho Boost, Baton Pass

Kingdra serves 0 purpose whatsoever because Palkia is literally better than it by 100%. Baton Pass is actually quite a cool idea, but this set is better pulled off by Mega Mewtwo X (for Contrary, I mean), or even Mega Mewtwo Y. Kingdra is not fast, strong, or bulky, which really sucks in Hackmons. If you want another spammer, Mega Blaziken also works. However, do keep in mind Chansey threatens this set and will most likely kill off Kingdra. Wiseglasses is also a bad option, run Life Orb on any offensive Contrary Pokemon.

Adamant, Speed Boost, Kabutops @ Life Orb
Protect, Stone Edge, Waterfall, Rapid spin

Umm... What does this set even accomplish? Defog Giratina does this and so much more. Kabutops is bad in itself, and Speed Boost does not save it. Speed Boost isn't as amazing as it seems, with Chansey being so prominent. Very many Pokemon wall this and can set up on this.

Jolly, Sturdy, Shedinja @ Lum Berry
X-Scissor, Shadow Claw, Swords Dance, Spore

You're using Shedinja wrong bro! The standard is Parting Shot (or U-turn / Volt Switch) / Recycle / Endeavor / Ice Shard (or Extreme Speed) on SturdNinja w/ Lum Berry iirc.

Modest, Levitate, Magnezone @ Expert Belt
Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Flash Cannon, Psychic

What does Magnezone have over any Protean user, including Mega Latios, Mega Mewtwo, and many more. Magnezone with Levitate is cute and all, but it's honestly not that amazing.

Brave Flash Fire Ferrothorn ( 0 speed evs or ivs) @ Assault Vest
Power Whip, Gyro Ball, Rapid Spin, Waterfall

Again, Giratina is better. And uhh why Waterfall of all things? o_O?

 

[JungleB]

I'm kinda new here so I don't know if this is the right place to post this or not, but I was wondering if I could get my team for BH rated. Everything has 252 evs unless otherwise noted. I listed as Nature, Ability, Pokemon so, here it is
Impish, Prakster, Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Spikes, Spore, Toxic Spikes, Explosion

Mild, Contrary, Kingdra @ Wiseglasses
Draco Meteor, V-Create, Psycho Boost, Baton Pass

Adamant, Speed Boost, Kabutops @ Life Orb
Protect, Stone Edge, Waterfall, Rapid spin

Jolly, Sturdy, Shedinja @ Lum Berry
X-Scissor, Shadow Claw, Swords Dance, Spore

Modest, Levitate, Magnezone @ Expert Belt
Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Flash Cannon, Psychic

Brave Flash Fire Ferrothorn ( 0 speed evs or ivs) @ Assault Vest
Power Whip, Gyro Ball, Rapid Spin, Waterfall

Basically, Ninjask acts as a suicide lead to set up SR and TS, then explodes. After that, there is no real strategy, other than get rid of entry hazards for obvious reasons. Originally, Shedinja had safety goggles, but after 2 or 3 times getting burned by sacred fire I switched to lum berry, as I haven't encountered any weather yet. I was mainly wondering:
a) Is it worth having 2 rapid spinners?
b) Are there better moves or pokes I could use.
I kinda threw this team together quickly, but I think I've won like 2 or 3 more than I've lost with it.

Okay first off, switch Ninjask for Deoxys Speed. It's faster, and hits harder with explosion. Now that you're faster, I recommend giving it either Mold Breaker, or Magic Bounce. Also, I recommend not using explosion unless you're desperate. This is in case the opponent removes your hazards.

Next off, Kingdra. This is actually a pretty solid set in terms of moves, but you may want to switch it to Soul Dew Latios, or Leftovers Palkia, depending on whether you want more power, or more bulk.
Also, running stored power is highly recommended.

Kabutops eh? Well, this is a bit of an interesting set. I think switching it out for something with a bit higher stats would be a good idea, but I'm not sure what other Pokemon would be similar enough to preform the same role.

As for Shedinja... Just run Endeavour, Ice Shard, and E-speed along with spiky shield to scout out foes. Endeavour will knock your foe down to one HP unless they're ghost type, Ice Shard and E-Speed are for priority moves to finish the job. Ice Shard is for Pokemon with rocky helm, and E-speed is for higher priority.

I'm not really seeing what kind of role Magnezone fulfills. It doesn't cover for any gaping weakness, and it isn't overly strong. I recommend replacing it with either and Imposter counter, an Imposter mon, or a Contrary counter.

Youre Ferothorn does not seem all that great. Unboosted Ferothorn won't be dealing much to things like P-Heal Arceus, or Imposter Chansy. I recommend changing it to either a more defensive set, or a Regenvester such as Darnanitain Zen or something.

Overall Rating: You have some nice sets, but not the greatest Pokemon to complement them. I recommend analyzing some sets of the foes you face, and learning from them. Don't feel discouraged that this team isn't the greatest. Most people have to rebuild their teams many times over before they get a team that not only they work well with, but works well against top threats as well. And remember, there is no such thing as a perfect team. The game is always changing, and you will always be faced with new threats and will be forced to adapt. Good luck building your team, and don't remember the most important thing about Pokemon, that most people seem to forget; HAVE FUN !

 

[Rumors]

I'll go ahead and add that, IMO, 140-150 in your attacking stat is the absolute bare minimum you should be looking at for completely unboosted offense (barring certain high-powered moves, like Aerodactyl's Head Smash). Expert Belt doesn't really count since its too situational. Generally, you want 160 or higher with zero boosts. Compare these two calcs, the first using a regular Magnezone and then Magnezone with 150 Sp. A.

252+ SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 127-151 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 83.4% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Magnezone (base 150 Sp. A) Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 142-168 (35.1 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

It's a small, but key difference. Even still though, Mew could wall that and Mew's bulk in BH would be average at best. With completed unboosted offense, you really need higher stats, higher powered attacks than Thunderbolt, or good enough coverage you can constantly threaten SE hits. You really need stuff like Life Orbs, boosting moves, or boosting abilities. Compare the above to...

252+ SpA Life Orb Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 165-196 (40.8 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Magnezone (150 Sp A) Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 185-218 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 43% chance to 2HKO

+1 252+ SpA Magnezone (150 Sp A) Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 213-252 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

They make a big difference, especially once you start combining them.

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 333-393 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not even going to bother to calc the non-existent 150 Sp. A Magnezone.

Of course again, that's against Mew. Most defensive mons will have at least Arceus bulk or better, so don't count on a lot of near OHKOs with just a LO Adapt +1 Magnezone. Still though, your Magnezone could become a lot more dangerous with a few tweaks rather than just being set-up/hazard bait.

Also on Magnezone specifically, it's an interesting mon with a good set of resists, reasonable bulk, and reasonable power. The problem lays in its low speed and weaknesses to Fire, Fighting, and Ground. The latter is particularly notable because One Thousand Arrows doesn't care about Levitate. 1k Arrows Megachomp will happily outspeed your Magnezone and OHKO it even if you stick an Air Balloon, Magnet Rise, and the Flying type on top of Levitate. As such, Magnezone is pretty much going to be relegated to anti-Imposter shenanigans, such as being a safe switch in to your Refrige Kyu-B who has Bolt Strike for coverage.


Also, Electric is sadly a bad special attacking type right now, and not even because of the many Dragons, must to my chagrin. The best special attacking Electric types are probably Mega Manectric, Mega Ampharos, Thundurus-Therian, and Zekrom. Manectric is fast, but frustratingly just below a few key threats, has power just as frustratingly below where it needs to be, and is a bit too frail to set-up, making using it hard. Amphy has some bulk and very nice power, but it's low speed and vulnerability to -ate spam forces it into pretty much either being a Regen/Furvest pivot or a TR sweeper. Thundy-T's speed is just barely above average and its Flying-typing is negated by 1k Arrows and its frail too. Zekrom has the combination of bulk and decent speed the other three crave, but it has the lowest special power of the four and prefers to attack physically either way. (I guess Electriceus with a Zap Plate could also be a possibility, but I've not seen nor even though of it until now). Also, Thunderbolt is underpowered, Thunder misses too much, Zap Cannon pretty much necessitates No Guard, and Judgement/Techno Blast are vulnerable to Knock Off.

Luckily, thanks to Zekrom + Bolt Strike, Fusion Bolt, and Volt Tackle, physical Electric is fine, if a bit uncommon.

Okay... I got off on a tangent there. So lemme just say that, if you're using Shedinja, Defog > Rapid Spin 90% of the time.

 

[Fossil_Maniac_27]

I don't like this for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Ninjask sucks, Deoxys-S outclasses it by miles. With so many Poison Heal Pokemon running about, Toxic Spikes is also not the greatest. Explosion is way gimmicky honestly and isn't that good, while Magic Bounce is extremely common as well. This set is easily set up on and is just flat out not that amazing.


View attachment 17065
Kingdra serves 0 purpose whatsoever because Palkia is literally better than it by 100%. Baton Pass is actually quite a cool idea, but this set is better pulled off by Mega Mewtwo X (for Contrary, I mean), or even Mega Mewtwo Y. Kingdra is not fast, strong, or bulky, which really sucks in Hackmons. If you want another spammer, Mega Blaziken also works. However, do keep in mind Chansey threatens this set and will most likely kill off Kingdra. Wiseglasses is also a bad option, run Life Orb on any offensive Contrary Pokemon.



Umm... What does this set even accomplish? Defog Giratina does this and so much more. Kabutops is bad in itself, and Speed Boost does not save it. Speed Boost isn't as amazing as it seems, with Chansey being so prominent. Very many Pokemon wall this and can set up on this.



You're using Shedinja wrong bro! The standard is Parting Shot (or U-turn / Volt Switch) / Recycle / Endeavor / Ice Shard (or Extreme Speed) on SturdNinja w/ Lum Berry iirc.



What does Magnezone have over any Protean user, including Mega Latios, Mega Mewtwo, and many more. Magnezone with Levitate is cute and all, but it's honestly not that amazing.



Again, Giratina is better. And uhh why Waterfall of all things? o_O?

Waterfall was basically to try to troll fire types, although now that I think about it, earthquake would've been better. Thanks for the suggestions though. I can't believe I forgot about endeavor shedinja.

Okay first off, switch Ninjask for Deoxys Speed. It's faster, and hits harder with explosion. Now that you're faster, I recommend giving it either Mold Breaker, or Magic Bounce. Also, I recommend not using explosion unless you're desperate. This is in case the opponent removes your hazards.

Next off, Kingdra. This is actually a pretty solid set in terms of moves, but you may want to switch it to Soul Dew Latios, or Leftovers Palkia, depending on whether you want more power, or more bulk.
Also, running stored power is highly recommended.

Kabutops eh? Well, this is a bit of an interesting set. I think switching it out for something with a bit higher stats would be a good idea, but I'm not sure what other Pokemon would be similar enough to preform the same role.

As for Shedinja... Just run Endeavour, Ice Shard, and E-speed along with spiky shield to scout out foes. Endeavour will knock your foe down to one HP unless they're ghost type, Ice Shard and E-Speed are for priority moves to finish the job. Ice Shard is for Pokemon with rocky helm, and E-speed is for higher priority.

I'm not really seeing what kind of role Magnezone fulfills. It doesn't cover for any gaping weakness, and it isn't overly strong. I recommend replacing it with either and Imposter counter, an Imposter mon, or a Contrary counter.

Youre Ferothorn does not seem all that great. Unboosted Ferothorn won't be dealing much to things like P-Heal Arceus, or Imposter Chansy. I recommend changing it to either a more defensive set, or a Regenvester such as Darnanitain Zen or something.

Overall Rating: You have some nice sets, but not the greatest Pokemon to complement them. I recommend analyzing some sets of the foes you face, and learning from them. Don't feel discouraged that this team isn't the greatest. Most people have to rebuild their teams many times over before they get a team that not only they work well with, but works well against top threats as well. And remember, there is no such thing as a perfect team. The game is always changing, and you will always be faced with new threats and will be forced to adapt. Good luck building your team, and don't remember the most important thing about Pokemon, that most people seem to forget; HAVE FUN !

Thanks for the suggestion. Would Psych Up work as a contrary counter or do I need something else. Also, is there a need for increased priority with shedinja, he's immune to all the priority attacks, and there's no telling what has rocky helmet. Also, I completely forgot about endeavor.

I'll go ahead and add that, IMO, 140-150 in your attacking stat is the absolute bare minimum you should be looking at for completely unboosted offense (barring certain high-powered moves, like Aerodactyl's Head Smash). Expert Belt doesn't really count since its too situational. Generally, you want 160 or higher with zero boosts. Compare these two calcs, the first using a regular Magnezone and then Magnezone with 150 Sp. A.

252+ SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 127-151 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 83.4% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Magnezone (base 150 Sp. A) Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 142-168 (35.1 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

It's a small, but key difference. Even still though, Mew could wall that and Mew's bulk in BH would be average at best. With completed unboosted offense, you really need higher stats, higher powered attacks than Thunderbolt, or good enough coverage you can constantly threaten SE hits. You really need stuff like Life Orbs, boosting moves, or boosting abilities. Compare the above to...

252+ SpA Life Orb Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 165-196 (40.8 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Magnezone (150 Sp A) Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 185-218 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 43% chance to 2HKO

+1 252+ SpA Magnezone (150 Sp A) Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 213-252 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

They make a big difference, especially once you start combining them.

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 333-393 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not even going to bother to calc the non-existent 150 Sp. A Magnezone.

Of course again, that's against Mew. Most defensive mons will have at least Arceus bulk or better, so don't count on a lot of near OHKOs with just a LO Adapt +1 Magnezone. Still though, your Magnezone could become a lot more dangerous with a few tweaks rather than just being set-up/hazard bait.

Also on Magnezone specifically, it's an interesting mon with a good set of resists, reasonable bulk, and reasonable power. The problem lays in its low speed and weaknesses to Fire, Fighting, and Ground. The latter is particularly notable because One Thousand Arrows doesn't care about Levitate. 1k Arrows Megachomp will happily outspeed your Magnezone and OHKO it even if you stick an Air Balloon, Magnet Rise, and the Flying type on top of Levitate. As such, Magnezone is pretty much going to be relegated to anti-Imposter shenanigans, such as being a safe switch in to your Refrige Kyu-B who has Bolt Strike for coverage.


Also, Electric is sadly a bad special attacking type right now, and not even because of the many Dragons, must to my chagrin. The best special attacking Electric types are probably Mega Manectric, Mega Ampharos, Thundurus-Therian, and Zekrom. Manectric is fast, but frustratingly just below a few key threats, has power just as frustratingly below where it needs to be, and is a bit too frail to set-up, making using it hard. Amphy has some bulk and very nice power, but it's low speed and vulnerability to -ate spam forces it into pretty much either being a Regen/Furvest pivot or a TR sweeper. Thundy-T's speed is just barely above average and its Flying-typing is negated by 1k Arrows and its frail too. Zekrom has the combination of bulk and decent speed the other three crave, but it has the lowest special power of the four and prefers to attack physically either way. (I guess Electriceus with a Zap Plate could also be a possibility, but I've not seen nor even though of it until now). Also, Thunderbolt is underpowered, Thunder misses too much, Zap Cannon pretty much necessitates No Guard, and Judgement/Techno Blast are vulnerable to Knock Off.

Luckily, thanks to Zekrom + Bolt Strike, Fusion Bolt, and Volt Tackle, physical Electric is fine, if a bit uncommon.

Okay... I got off on a tangent there. So lemme just say that, if you're using Shedinja, Defog > Rapid Spin 90% of the time.

I forgot defog gets rid of entry hazards now. Thanks.

Also, when I made that team, I did it in like 10 minutes with some of my favorite pokemon, forgot about endeavor shedinja, and thought Deoxys-S was banned. oops.

Your team is really bad. Kingdra is worse than palkia, ninjask is worse than everything ,shed prefers smash, and prefers endeavor even more. Magnezone is bad, and I don't see the point of it. Ferro does nothing for your team, either. You should look into the BH mentoring program, so that you can learn a bit more about the tier, and how to play it. I know I come off as mean, but I said none of those things in order to be mean - I said them because there is a lot of room for improvement.

This was the first team I'd ever really put together and fought with competitively, so I kinda expected it to be bad. I guess I really do have to run lots of legendaries to win consistently.

 

[Pikachuun]

5 posts at once

Dude there's something called the Edit button that was recently added. This is not a chat-room, but a forum. And yes, you can quote multiple posts at once by simply replying to all of them. Edit your first post in the chain such that it has all of these posts in it please.

 

[JungleB]

Thanks for the suggestion. Would Psych Up work as a contrary counter or do I need something else. Also, is there a need for increased priority with shedinja, he's immune to all the priority attacks, and there's no telling what has rocky helmet. Also, I completely forgot about endeavor.

The reason for double priority is in case of Mold breaker mons because they'll just oneshot Shed with a priority move. Additionally, if you know the opponent has a rocky helm mon, Ice Shard would be good for predicting them to switch to it. As for Phych Up, don't use it. It let's the opponent keep their buffs. Instead either use Heart Swap (Phych Up, but it doesn't let them keep their buffs) or Topsy Turvy. (Inverts stat changes)

 

[Uselesscrab]

Waterfall was basically to try to troll fire types, although now that I think about it, earthquake would've been better. Thanks for the suggestions though. I can't believe I forgot about endeavor shedinja.




Thanks for the suggestion. Would Psych Up work as a contrary counter or do I need something else. Also, is there a need for increased priority with shedinja, he's immune to all the priority attacks, and there's no telling what has rocky helmet. Also, I completely forgot about endeavor.



I forgot defog gets rid of entry hazards now. Thanks.

Also, when I made that team, I did it in like 10 minutes with some of my favorite pokemon, forgot about endeavor shedinja, and thought Deoxys-S was banned. oops.



This was the first team I'd ever really put together and fought with competitively, so I kinda expected it to be bad. I guess I really do have to run lots of legendaries to win consistently.

Responses to your responses:

1) Earthquake is worse than Thousand Arrows in most circumstances, so run that. However, I think it might be fun, if you see something has Fire-type attacks, to trap them with Thousand Waves, so that's also an option.

2) Psych Up really isn't that great; Topsy-Turvy, Haze, and Heart Swap are probably each better in their own ways. I'd recommend Topsy-Turvy, personally. As for Shedinja, it can safely run Ice Shard, since it isn't contact, so Shedinja doesn't need to care about Rocky Helmet. Try something like Endeavor / Ice Shard / switching move / filler.

3) Yeah, Defog is better unless you're running a bunch of your own hazard setters or you have an -ate user doing the Rapid Spinning.

4) Not necessarily, at least not "lots." Legendaries are often the best option for a variety of reasons, e.g. Yveltal being the best counter to Mega Gengar and MMX and MMY being the premier physical and special attackers, respectively. However, one of my best teams contains only a single legendary, a Prankster Giratina, along with non-legendary Pokemon like Chansey, Charizard-Mega-Y and Aegislash.