Hey guys, Im working on a super doubles team that starts with a dual screen klefkey with swagger, and an unburden hawlucha with a persim berry. The trouble is I cant think of two other pokes to go with them. The best I have come up with is full offence charizard x and a bulky varient of rottom wash but I can't help but think that there is something better. any suggestions?
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Battle Maison Discussion & Records
- Thread starter NoCheese
- Start date
I think dual screens (and heavily support-based pokes in general) are much better suited for Rotations or perhaps even Triples, where you have a lot more freedom in your strategies for one reason or another. In Rotations, it works because the opposition can't just double up on your Hawlucha and you're not committed to using Reflect/Light Screen if it looks like Klefki has no business staying in.
In Triples, it works because of the prevalence of some extremely broken strategies and the ability for one or two sweepers to destroy three by itself. Hawlucha does not have the move or the offensive strength to do that sort of thing, either.
I'm not trying to discourage you from using Hawlucha, or Zard X or Rotom for that matter, but Klefki is not the sort of glue for those three, nor would it make a sufficient lifeline for Hawlucha, who has a lot of common weaknesses to very strong attacks in the Maison.
In Triples, it works because of the prevalence of some extremely broken strategies and the ability for one or two sweepers to destroy three by itself. Hawlucha does not have the move or the offensive strength to do that sort of thing, either.
I'm not trying to discourage you from using Hawlucha, or Zard X or Rotom for that matter, but Klefki is not the sort of glue for those three, nor would it make a sufficient lifeline for Hawlucha, who has a lot of common weaknesses to very strong attacks in the Maison.
Also note that while Unburden + Persim Berry + Prankster Swagger can surely be a ton of fun, the accuracy on Swagger will cost you over a long streak. I guess you could use a Wide Lens, but then you lose the ability to boost the duration of your screens with Light Clay.
For the most part I just want hawlucha to take something down first tern. I agree that klefkey is not my best option but I really want to try the swagger thing with hawlucha and I can't get mega bayonet or sableye with prankster. Maybe I will try it in triples with eviolite dublade with no guard. Can't say I like that double fire weekness though.
A destiny bond Gengar will attract the Ai attention a lot, giving Klefki a chance to set up screens then once Gengar's done as much damage as he can DB sacrifice him to bring hawn in...it's a theory..i cant promise it'll work but I know from my own Gengar exp the Ai always fancies it's chances to KO him and he has the moves/speed and power to damage a lot of pokes, he can also stay in to fight if u need to switch out klefki due to a heavy earthquake prediction..along with Hawn in the back u'd prob want another very heavy sweeper..along the lines of Kanga/suicune/chomp etc..you may not get a streak in the hundreds but if you want to try out pokes you like then find a way..my Marowak and Gyarados have had many failed attempts at the subway/maison in my attempt to find the best way to help them achieve something..thanks to many posts in this thread, we're starting to get somewhere now lol!
The thing is, while +2 Hawlucha has more than enough attack strength to OHKO something with itemless Acrobatics or Low Kick (weight permitting) this also means Klefki won't be using one of its screens the first turn. A Hawlucha built for offense has even worse defenses than normal; 78/75/63 is not built to withstand things.
Not only that, +2 Jolly Hawlucha isn't exactly the hardest of hitters:
+2 252 Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 141-166 (75.4 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-Metagross 4. I used HJK to illustrate this because it's even stronger than max power Low Kick. It has 0 attack EVs because it runs a specially bulky Careful spread, but its Meteor Mash still does a minimum of 54% to Hawlucha. That's an UNINVESTED base 90 power attack.
+2 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Latios: 124-147 (66.3 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-Latios 1. Latios would surely be a priority in any battle past 40, because it may be the even more powerful offensively oriented variants. While Acrobatics will OHKO them, Latios1 has little to fear, and its uninvested Luster Purge has a 53% chance to OHKO you.
You are highly likely to face at least one Psychic/Hex Maniac and one Veteran before fighting the Chatelaines, which means meeting more bulky pokes than these two, such as the Slowthings, Bronzong, Claydol, Musharna, Gothitelle (with a lovely Brightpowder) and so on. Hawlucha especially falters against these things. Scientists are not uncommon, either, and while much of their team can be easily OHKOd by Hawlucha, they're just as likely to lead with two Electric types, or an electric plus a powerful fossil, or even a Victreebel 4, who can OHKO with Sludge Bomb if you decide to take out the electric instead (and it is unlikely to target Klefki.) Other common trainer types include the Chefs or Rangers with water-heavy teams, meaning it's inevitable that Hawlucha eats an Ice Beam or Blizzard.
Veterans in themselves are unfriendly to Hawlucha because while they are rife with pokes weak to fighting, you're just as likely to face a Heatran alongside a Raikou or any other combination that will allow the opponent to easily KO Hawlucha or Klefki. Note that Regirock 2 can have Sturdy, so in addition to attacking, it will force Klefki to use its next turn to Reflect (if it is alive) in order to soften the imminent Explosion thanks to its Custap Berry. Sturdy in itself is very unfriendly to Hawlucha because it won't have the defenses to take the retaliation. This does assume that Klefki spent its first turn using Swagger.
Fake Out is not rare in the Maison and it destroys this strategy even more than others, because while Klefki may conceivably get a second chance, Hawlucha likely will not.
While Hawlucha is able to survive most neutral hits from moderately powerful attacks like Gengar's Shadow Ball, it has slim to no chances of surviving supereffective hits from STABless moves like Gengar's Thunderbolt. If something inflicts 65% damage minimum the first turn, Hawlucha will take down two enemies at best before it's finished off, as Klefki's appropriate screen will not make a difference much of the time. It's not worth sacking your lead or forming your core around a poke that can't be expected to do more than half of the work in any given battle.
Not only that, +2 Jolly Hawlucha isn't exactly the hardest of hitters:
+2 252 Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 141-166 (75.4 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-Metagross 4. I used HJK to illustrate this because it's even stronger than max power Low Kick. It has 0 attack EVs because it runs a specially bulky Careful spread, but its Meteor Mash still does a minimum of 54% to Hawlucha. That's an UNINVESTED base 90 power attack.
+2 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Latios: 124-147 (66.3 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-Latios 1. Latios would surely be a priority in any battle past 40, because it may be the even more powerful offensively oriented variants. While Acrobatics will OHKO them, Latios1 has little to fear, and its uninvested Luster Purge has a 53% chance to OHKO you.
You are highly likely to face at least one Psychic/Hex Maniac and one Veteran before fighting the Chatelaines, which means meeting more bulky pokes than these two, such as the Slowthings, Bronzong, Claydol, Musharna, Gothitelle (with a lovely Brightpowder) and so on. Hawlucha especially falters against these things. Scientists are not uncommon, either, and while much of their team can be easily OHKOd by Hawlucha, they're just as likely to lead with two Electric types, or an electric plus a powerful fossil, or even a Victreebel 4, who can OHKO with Sludge Bomb if you decide to take out the electric instead (and it is unlikely to target Klefki.) Other common trainer types include the Chefs or Rangers with water-heavy teams, meaning it's inevitable that Hawlucha eats an Ice Beam or Blizzard.
Veterans in themselves are unfriendly to Hawlucha because while they are rife with pokes weak to fighting, you're just as likely to face a Heatran alongside a Raikou or any other combination that will allow the opponent to easily KO Hawlucha or Klefki. Note that Regirock 2 can have Sturdy, so in addition to attacking, it will force Klefki to use its next turn to Reflect (if it is alive) in order to soften the imminent Explosion thanks to its Custap Berry. Sturdy in itself is very unfriendly to Hawlucha because it won't have the defenses to take the retaliation. This does assume that Klefki spent its first turn using Swagger.
Fake Out is not rare in the Maison and it destroys this strategy even more than others, because while Klefki may conceivably get a second chance, Hawlucha likely will not.
While Hawlucha is able to survive most neutral hits from moderately powerful attacks like Gengar's Shadow Ball, it has slim to no chances of surviving supereffective hits from STABless moves like Gengar's Thunderbolt. If something inflicts 65% damage minimum the first turn, Hawlucha will take down two enemies at best before it's finished off, as Klefki's appropriate screen will not make a difference much of the time. It's not worth sacking your lead or forming your core around a poke that can't be expected to do more than half of the work in any given battle.
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Hello everyone, I am a first time poster here on Smogon. I thought I would share my ORAS Battle Maison Super Singles streak that ended at 89 straight wins.
Loss: RMGW-WWWW-WW28-LMXE
At battle 90, I lost against Ace Trainer Nikita who used Swampert, Garchomp, and Mienshao. Her Swampert gave me the most trouble with a ChestoRest combo, as well as using Curse, and ultimately led to my loss.
I know I made some dumb plays, as I was a little preoccupied at this point watching some T.V.
Nevertheless, here is my team that was used for all 89 wins:
Garchomp (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Swords Dance
Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Sp.Atk / 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Will-o-Wisp
- Protect
Scizor (F) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 8 Sp.Def / 248 HP / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Roost
Loss: RMGW-WWWW-WW28-LMXE
At battle 90, I lost against Ace Trainer Nikita who used Swampert, Garchomp, and Mienshao. Her Swampert gave me the most trouble with a ChestoRest combo, as well as using Curse, and ultimately led to my loss.
I know I made some dumb plays, as I was a little preoccupied at this point watching some T.V.
Nevertheless, here is my team that was used for all 89 wins:
Garchomp (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Swords Dance
Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Sp.Atk / 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Will-o-Wisp
- Protect
Scizor (F) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 8 Sp.Def / 248 HP / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Roost
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I've been following this thread for a while now, and after reading it over a bit I've decided to try making a team and try tackling it myself.
I'm going to start with Super Singles to begin with, as Singles is my preference. I haven't actually begun the streak yet as I'm still preparing, but here's the team I was planning on using:
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body -> Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Bullet Punch
- Zen Headbutt / Ice Punch
- Earthquake
Metagross was the first Pokemon I picked, by virtue of simply wanting to do something with Metagross. As far as I can tell from reading this thread, this is a fairly standard set. I was planning on putting Substitute on it for the purpose of status-dodging and generally making smashing face easier, but I still haven't had the Mirage Island with that TM show up yet (whoever thought that putting TMs on Mirage Islands was a good idea should have been fired). Currently the Metagross in question has Zen Headbutt because I'm particular about how my movesets look when in a list like this, but Ice Punch is probably a better idea for both coverage and accuracy purposes.
Hydreigon @ Life Orb / Dread Plate / Draco Plate
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower / Earth Power / Flash Cannon
- Taunt
Hydreigon was mostly picked because it was the first thing I thought of to complement Metagross. In theory at least the two have decent synergy; Hydreigon resists or is immune to all of Metagross's weaknesses, and in return Metagross smashes Fairies and can tank an opposing Dragon move for Hydreigon. Dark Pulse and Dragon Pulse are reliable (if somewhat weak) STABs and Taunt is for messing with walls like Cresselia2.
I'm not sure about the item or what the third move should be. I imagine Life Orb is probably the most useful item in general, but it might make Hydreigon less bulky than I would like and so I've also considered just powering up one of its STABs. As for the third move I initially picked Flamethrower, but Earth Power sounds like a decent alternative for Steels (as Dark Pulse can hit flying/levitating Steels now) and Flash Cannon sounds better for Fairies (although with Metagross around those may not be such a big issue).
Taunt was another big reason why I picked Hydreigon, but I'm not above dropping it for an additional coverage move and giving Hydreigon a Choice item if that'd be a better idea.
Gardevoir @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Healing Wish
Fighting and Bug were the only two types that Hydreigon and Metagross didn't resist between the two of them, and a Fairy was the first thing that came to mind for handling those. The problem is that most Fairies are kind of slow and I needed something fast for things like Starmie4, and so I decided to try a Scarf Gardevoir.
Moonblast and Psyshock are STABs, Thunderbolt is general accurate coverage (and smacks the aforementioned Starmie4 in particular since I was a little concerned about that), and Healing Wish is for bringing one of the other two back up to speed should I need to in a pinch. I was going to run Focus Blast, but for hopefully obvious reasons I decided against it.
This is probably the most replaceable member of the team and I probably will swap it out should I find something that's a better fit.
One immediate problem I'm noticing is the lack of a setup Pokemon; from reading this thread it sounds like having one of those is practically mandatory for success in Singles. I'm trying to avoid using legendaries and/or Hidden Power-reliant Pokemon as I really don't have the patience to try for truly good examples of either of those, but beyond that I'm open to suggestions.
I'm going to start with Super Singles to begin with, as Singles is my preference. I haven't actually begun the streak yet as I'm still preparing, but here's the team I was planning on using:
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body -> Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Bullet Punch
- Zen Headbutt / Ice Punch
- Earthquake
Metagross was the first Pokemon I picked, by virtue of simply wanting to do something with Metagross. As far as I can tell from reading this thread, this is a fairly standard set. I was planning on putting Substitute on it for the purpose of status-dodging and generally making smashing face easier, but I still haven't had the Mirage Island with that TM show up yet (whoever thought that putting TMs on Mirage Islands was a good idea should have been fired). Currently the Metagross in question has Zen Headbutt because I'm particular about how my movesets look when in a list like this, but Ice Punch is probably a better idea for both coverage and accuracy purposes.
Hydreigon @ Life Orb / Dread Plate / Draco Plate
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower / Earth Power / Flash Cannon
- Taunt
Hydreigon was mostly picked because it was the first thing I thought of to complement Metagross. In theory at least the two have decent synergy; Hydreigon resists or is immune to all of Metagross's weaknesses, and in return Metagross smashes Fairies and can tank an opposing Dragon move for Hydreigon. Dark Pulse and Dragon Pulse are reliable (if somewhat weak) STABs and Taunt is for messing with walls like Cresselia2.
I'm not sure about the item or what the third move should be. I imagine Life Orb is probably the most useful item in general, but it might make Hydreigon less bulky than I would like and so I've also considered just powering up one of its STABs. As for the third move I initially picked Flamethrower, but Earth Power sounds like a decent alternative for Steels (as Dark Pulse can hit flying/levitating Steels now) and Flash Cannon sounds better for Fairies (although with Metagross around those may not be such a big issue).
Taunt was another big reason why I picked Hydreigon, but I'm not above dropping it for an additional coverage move and giving Hydreigon a Choice item if that'd be a better idea.
Gardevoir @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Healing Wish
Fighting and Bug were the only two types that Hydreigon and Metagross didn't resist between the two of them, and a Fairy was the first thing that came to mind for handling those. The problem is that most Fairies are kind of slow and I needed something fast for things like Starmie4, and so I decided to try a Scarf Gardevoir.
Moonblast and Psyshock are STABs, Thunderbolt is general accurate coverage (and smacks the aforementioned Starmie4 in particular since I was a little concerned about that), and Healing Wish is for bringing one of the other two back up to speed should I need to in a pinch. I was going to run Focus Blast, but for hopefully obvious reasons I decided against it.
This is probably the most replaceable member of the team and I probably will swap it out should I find something that's a better fit.
One immediate problem I'm noticing is the lack of a setup Pokemon; from reading this thread it sounds like having one of those is practically mandatory for success in Singles. I'm trying to avoid using legendaries and/or Hidden Power-reliant Pokemon as I really don't have the patience to try for truly good examples of either of those, but beyond that I'm open to suggestions.
I hadn't been doing anything in the Maison recently, and have been playing some other games instead - but AI Multis reared its ugly head again this weekend and I managed to attain a 90-win streak in ORAS AI Multis.
I had tried many, many times in the past months before finally getting enough easy opponents to make it yesterday by chance. The team was very unreliable and not very good, and I'd all but given up on it with most of of my attempts at the mode ending prior to battle 40 and the Chatelaine battle being a very difficult match-up unless they bring out favorable Pokémon.
While I made it to 90 wins, it was mostly due to luck - prior to the streak, I lost a lot of times to the numerous opponents that give the team a lot of trouble. Here is the team, in all its Species Clause-defying glory:
I now have all five Trophies in ORAS with AI Multis finally out of the way.
I had tried many, many times in the past months before finally getting enough easy opponents to make it yesterday by chance. The team was very unreliable and not very good, and I'd all but given up on it with most of of my attempts at the mode ending prior to battle 40 and the Chatelaine battle being a very difficult match-up unless they bring out favorable Pokémon.
While I made it to 90 wins, it was mostly due to luck - prior to the streak, I lost a lot of times to the numerous opponents that give the team a lot of trouble. Here is the team, in all its Species Clause-defying glory:
"I would love to see how it would stand up to Steven's Beldum."
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rock Head
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Rock Slide
-Tailwind
-Wide Guard
-Protect
Metagross @ Metagrossite ** Steven's Metagross
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Def
-Meteor Mash
-Zen Headbutt
-Bullet Punch
-Hammer Arm
Metagross @ Metagrossite ** Gencore II
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Iron Head
-Grass Knot
-Ice Punch
-Earthquake
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash ** Steven's Aerodactyl
Ability: Rock Read
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Rock Slide
-Thunder Fang
-Fire Fang
-Ice Fang
Ability: Rock Head
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Rock Slide
-Tailwind
-Wide Guard
-Protect
Metagross @ Metagrossite ** Steven's Metagross
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Def
-Meteor Mash
-Zen Headbutt
-Bullet Punch
-Hammer Arm
Metagross @ Metagrossite ** Gencore II
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Iron Head
-Grass Knot
-Ice Punch
-Earthquake
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash ** Steven's Aerodactyl
Ability: Rock Read
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Rock Slide
-Thunder Fang
-Fire Fang
-Ice Fang
The idea behind the team is exactly what it looks like - using the same Pokémon species as the AI partner because you can, since the Species clause and Item Clause are applied individually for different players in Multi Battles. I did not expect it to work and I settled for an Aerodactyl without its Hidden Ability since I lacked one, but if I tried again I'd definitely seek out one with Unnerve.
While I was going for the same Pokémon Steven uses, copying the AI's unoptimal set would've been too difficult - instead, I went for Wide Guard and Tailwind on Aerodactyl to support Steven's slow Metagross, and bring mine up to speed prior to Mega Evolution. Wide Guard is most useful for blocking Earthquake and Rock Slide, but it also saw usage against Surf and Blizzard. Protect enables it to bait enemy attacks and Aerodactyl lacks useful attacking moves aside from Rock Slide anyway. I also went for an Adamant nature to deal a little bit more damage with Rock Slide, which I think was worth it.
For the Metagross (RNG'd in BW, not the actual ORAS shiny event), Iron Head, Ice Punch and Earthquake were straightforward, reliable choices with Steven's Aerodactyl being Ground-immune. For the fourth move, I initially used Thunder Punch, but changed it to Grass Knot shortly after to be able to hit Water/Ground types, which would otherwise wall the entire team save for Steven's Metagross.
The addition of Wide Guard helps Steven a lot against Earthquake and Water-types and sometimes allows Aerodactyl + Aerodactyl to beat Rock Slide users. When the other three moves wouldn't do a whole lot, Tailwind is a good choice to secure the Speed advantage with Steven's Metagross outspeeding the whole Maison prior to Hammer Arm speed drops, and most of it even at -1 Speed.
The Battle Chatelaines are a particularly bad match-up for this team - if Nita brings out Landorus, both Metagrosses will probably be smoked by Earth Power, and Musketeers give a hard time to Aerodactyl - I'd made it to the Chatelaines once before this, and lost to Landorus without a chance. In this streak, the Chatelaines brought out Latias/Thundurus/Virizion/Tornadus, which were probably the most favourable match-ups for this team, with Landorus and the tougher Musketeers being omitted. Landorus in particular will show up 2/3 of the time with Nita having three Pokémon to choose from - it's reasonably lucky to get this win with only two runs total making it to the Chatelaine.
While it was very fun to finally be able to beat the Chatelaines and stack up 40 lucky wins on top of that, I wouldn't recommend trying it. Using the same Pokémon as the AI partner only amplifies their weaknesses rather than covering them, and while Wide Guard, Tailwind and different coverage options on my Metagross help against some of them, it is still an exceptionally one-dimensional team with two weak flying fossils and no switch options to speak of.
While I was going for the same Pokémon Steven uses, copying the AI's unoptimal set would've been too difficult - instead, I went for Wide Guard and Tailwind on Aerodactyl to support Steven's slow Metagross, and bring mine up to speed prior to Mega Evolution. Wide Guard is most useful for blocking Earthquake and Rock Slide, but it also saw usage against Surf and Blizzard. Protect enables it to bait enemy attacks and Aerodactyl lacks useful attacking moves aside from Rock Slide anyway. I also went for an Adamant nature to deal a little bit more damage with Rock Slide, which I think was worth it.
For the Metagross (RNG'd in BW, not the actual ORAS shiny event), Iron Head, Ice Punch and Earthquake were straightforward, reliable choices with Steven's Aerodactyl being Ground-immune. For the fourth move, I initially used Thunder Punch, but changed it to Grass Knot shortly after to be able to hit Water/Ground types, which would otherwise wall the entire team save for Steven's Metagross.
The addition of Wide Guard helps Steven a lot against Earthquake and Water-types and sometimes allows Aerodactyl + Aerodactyl to beat Rock Slide users. When the other three moves wouldn't do a whole lot, Tailwind is a good choice to secure the Speed advantage with Steven's Metagross outspeeding the whole Maison prior to Hammer Arm speed drops, and most of it even at -1 Speed.
The Battle Chatelaines are a particularly bad match-up for this team - if Nita brings out Landorus, both Metagrosses will probably be smoked by Earth Power, and Musketeers give a hard time to Aerodactyl - I'd made it to the Chatelaines once before this, and lost to Landorus without a chance. In this streak, the Chatelaines brought out Latias/Thundurus/Virizion/Tornadus, which were probably the most favourable match-ups for this team, with Landorus and the tougher Musketeers being omitted. Landorus in particular will show up 2/3 of the time with Nita having three Pokémon to choose from - it's reasonably lucky to get this win with only two runs total making it to the Chatelaine.
While it was very fun to finally be able to beat the Chatelaines and stack up 40 lucky wins on top of that, I wouldn't recommend trying it. Using the same Pokémon as the AI partner only amplifies their weaknesses rather than covering them, and while Wide Guard, Tailwind and different coverage options on my Metagross help against some of them, it is still an exceptionally one-dimensional team with two weak flying fossils and no switch options to speak of.
RY6G-WWWW-WW29-C77K - #91 vs. Zapdos/Exploud/Moltres/Spiritomb
The loss. The opposing trainers lead off with Zapdos2/Exploud4 - I go for Rock Slide, and Heat Wave + Icy Wind destroys the frontline with a big Speed drop allowing Zapdos to outspeed Aerodactyl.
Wait, what? As it turns out, I had screwed up EV training the Aerodactyl somehow, and it was missing a single point in Speed, putting it at 181. At that speed tier, having one point less doesn't matter at all... but with a Speed drop, 181 Speed drops to 120 (tying with Zapdos2) while 182 would keep it at 121 and outspeed it. D'oh!
Afterwards, I lose in a straightforward manner - there wasn't much hax involved, it was just a bad match-up with the enemy Pokémon choosing unfavorable moves and the crucial Speed failure. Wide Guard on Turn 1 would have won the battle, but Zapdos might also have been Set1, or used Charge Beam (which it did on Turn 2) or Double Team, in which case forgoing the opportunity to damage it with Rock Slide would have been terrible. Rock Slide also has an useful flinch chance, so I think it was the safer choice even though it backfired.
77CG-WWWW-WW29-C79P - #87 vs. Regirock/Arcanine/Articuno/Emboar
Wide Guard blocks Regirock's Rock Slides until the move's PP (not maxed) is depleted, salvaging a battle that could otherwise have turned sour with two dangerous Fire-types taking out Steven's Metagross and threatening mine.
The loss. The opposing trainers lead off with Zapdos2/Exploud4 - I go for Rock Slide, and Heat Wave + Icy Wind destroys the frontline with a big Speed drop allowing Zapdos to outspeed Aerodactyl.
Wait, what? As it turns out, I had screwed up EV training the Aerodactyl somehow, and it was missing a single point in Speed, putting it at 181. At that speed tier, having one point less doesn't matter at all... but with a Speed drop, 181 Speed drops to 120 (tying with Zapdos2) while 182 would keep it at 121 and outspeed it. D'oh!
Afterwards, I lose in a straightforward manner - there wasn't much hax involved, it was just a bad match-up with the enemy Pokémon choosing unfavorable moves and the crucial Speed failure. Wide Guard on Turn 1 would have won the battle, but Zapdos might also have been Set1, or used Charge Beam (which it did on Turn 2) or Double Team, in which case forgoing the opportunity to damage it with Rock Slide would have been terrible. Rock Slide also has an useful flinch chance, so I think it was the safer choice even though it backfired.
77CG-WWWW-WW29-C79P - #87 vs. Regirock/Arcanine/Articuno/Emboar
Wide Guard blocks Regirock's Rock Slides until the move's PP (not maxed) is depleted, salvaging a battle that could otherwise have turned sour with two dangerous Fire-types taking out Steven's Metagross and threatening mine.
I now have all five Trophies in ORAS with AI Multis finally out of the way.
It's slightly reassuring to know that even you struggle with the Maison at times!!
I hadn't been doing anything in the Maison recently, and have been playing some other games instead - but AI Multis reared its ugly head again this weekend and I managed to attain a 90-win streak in ORAS AI Multis.
I had tried many, many times in the past months before finally getting enough easy opponents to make it yesterday by chance. The team was very unreliable and not very good, and I'd all but given up on it with most of of my attempts at the mode ending prior to battle 40 and the Chatelaine battle being a very difficult match-up unless they bring out favorable Pokémon.
While I made it to 90 wins, it was mostly due to luck - prior to the streak, I lost a lot of times to the numerous opponents that give the team a lot of trouble. Here is the team, in all its Species Clause-defying glory:
"I would love to see how it would stand up to Steven's Beldum."Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rock Head
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Rock Slide
-Tailwind
-Wide Guard
-Protect
Metagross @ Metagrossite ** Steven's Metagross
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Def
-Meteor Mash
-Zen Headbutt
-Bullet Punch
-Hammer Arm
Metagross @ Metagrossite ** Gencore II
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Iron Head
-Grass Knot
-Ice Punch
-Earthquake
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash ** Steven's Aerodactyl
Ability: Rock Read
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Rock Slide
-Thunder Fang
-Fire Fang
-Ice FangThe idea behind the team is exactly what it looks like - using the same Pokémon species as the AI partner because you can, since the Species clause and Item Clause are applied individually for different players in Multi Battles. I did not expect it to work and I settled for an Aerodactyl without its Hidden Ability since I lacked one, but if I tried again I'd definitely seek out one with Unnerve.
While I was going for the same Pokémon Steven uses, copying the AI's unoptimal set would've been too difficult - instead, I went for Wide Guard and Tailwind on Aerodactyl to support Steven's slow Metagross, and bring mine up to speed prior to Mega Evolution. Wide Guard is most useful for blocking Earthquake and Rock Slide, but it also saw usage against Surf and Blizzard. Protect enables it to bait enemy attacks and Aerodactyl lacks useful attacking moves aside from Rock Slide anyway. I also went for an Adamant nature to deal a little bit more damage with Rock Slide, which I think was worth it.
For the Metagross (RNG'd in BW, not the actual ORAS shiny event), Iron Head, Ice Punch and Earthquake were straightforward, reliable choices with Steven's Aerodactyl being Ground-immune. For the fourth move, I initially used Thunder Punch, but changed it to Grass Knot shortly after to be able to hit Water/Ground types, which would otherwise wall the entire team save for Steven's Metagross.
The addition of Wide Guard helps Steven a lot against Earthquake and Water-types and sometimes allows Aerodactyl + Aerodactyl to beat Rock Slide users. When the other three moves wouldn't do a whole lot, Tailwind is a good choice to secure the Speed advantage with Steven's Metagross outspeeding the whole Maison prior to Hammer Arm speed drops, and most of it even at -1 Speed.
The Battle Chatelaines are a particularly bad match-up for this team - if Nita brings out Landorus, both Metagrosses will probably be smoked by Earth Power, and Musketeers give a hard time to Aerodactyl - I'd made it to the Chatelaines once before this, and lost to Landorus without a chance. In this streak, the Chatelaines brought out Latias/Thundurus/Virizion/Tornadus, which were probably the most favourable match-ups for this team, with Landorus and the tougher Musketeers being omitted. Landorus in particular will show up 2/3 of the time with Nita having three Pokémon to choose from - it's reasonably lucky to get this win with only two runs total making it to the Chatelaine.
While it was very fun to finally be able to beat the Chatelaines and stack up 40 lucky wins on top of that, I wouldn't recommend trying it. Using the same Pokémon as the AI partner only amplifies their weaknesses rather than covering them, and while Wide Guard, Tailwind and different coverage options on my Metagross help against some of them, it is still an exceptionally one-dimensional team with two weak flying fossils and no switch options to speak of.RY6G-WWWW-WW29-C77K - #91 vs. Zapdos/Exploud/Moltres/Spiritomb
The loss. The opposing trainers lead off with Zapdos2/Exploud4 - I go for Rock Slide, and Heat Wave + Icy Wind destroys the frontline with a big Speed drop allowing Zapdos to outspeed Aerodactyl.
Wait, what? As it turns out, I had screwed up EV training the Aerodactyl somehow, and it was missing a single point in Speed, putting it at 181. At that speed tier, having one point less doesn't matter at all... but with a Speed drop, 181 Speed drops to 120 (tying with Zapdos2) while 182 would keep it at 121 and outspeed it. D'oh!
Afterwards, I lose in a straightforward manner - there wasn't much hax involved, it was just a bad match-up with the enemy Pokémon choosing unfavorable moves and the crucial Speed failure. Wide Guard on Turn 1 would have won the battle, but Zapdos might also have been Set1, or used Charge Beam (which it did on Turn 2) or Double Team, in which case forgoing the opportunity to damage it with Rock Slide would have been terrible. Rock Slide also has an useful flinch chance, so I think it was the safer choice even though it backfired.
77CG-WWWW-WW29-C79P - #87 vs. Regirock/Arcanine/Articuno/Emboar
Wide Guard blocks Regirock's Rock Slides until the move's PP (not maxed) is depleted, salvaging a battle that could otherwise have turned sour with two dangerous Fire-types taking out Steven's Metagross and threatening mine.
I now have all five Trophies in ORAS with AI Multis finally out of the way.
Damn! I was planning to do this myself, since I've already bred the shiny Unnerve Aerodactyl and just waiting on a trade for a shiny pentagon Metagross (in a Premier ball). Maybe I'll try it with alternate megas then (or a different AI) haha. Congrats on the streak though!I hadn't been doing anything in the Maison recently, and have been playing some other games instead - but AI Multis reared its ugly head again this weekend and I managed to attain a 90-win streak in ORAS AI Multis.
I had tried many, many times in the past months before finally getting enough easy opponents to make it yesterday by chance. The team was very unreliable and not very good, and I'd all but given up on it with most of of my attempts at the mode ending prior to battle 40 and the Chatelaine battle being a very difficult match-up unless they bring out favorable Pokémon.
While I made it to 90 wins, it was mostly due to luck - prior to the streak, I lost a lot of times to the numerous opponents that give the team a lot of trouble. Here is the team, in all its Species Clause-defying glory:
"I would love to see how it would stand up to Steven's Beldum."Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rock Head
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Rock Slide
-Tailwind
-Wide Guard
-Protect
Metagross @ Metagrossite ** Steven's Metagross
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Def
-Meteor Mash
-Zen Headbutt
-Bullet Punch
-Hammer Arm
Metagross @ Metagrossite ** Gencore II
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Iron Head
-Grass Knot
-Ice Punch
-Earthquake
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash ** Steven's Aerodactyl
Ability: Rock Read
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Rock Slide
-Thunder Fang
-Fire Fang
-Ice FangThe idea behind the team is exactly what it looks like - using the same Pokémon species as the AI partner because you can, since the Species clause and Item Clause are applied individually for different players in Multi Battles. I did not expect it to work and I settled for an Aerodactyl without its Hidden Ability since I lacked one, but if I tried again I'd definitely seek out one with Unnerve.
While I was going for the same Pokémon Steven uses, copying the AI's unoptimal set would've been too difficult - instead, I went for Wide Guard and Tailwind on Aerodactyl to support Steven's slow Metagross, and bring mine up to speed prior to Mega Evolution. Wide Guard is most useful for blocking Earthquake and Rock Slide, but it also saw usage against Surf and Blizzard. Protect enables it to bait enemy attacks and Aerodactyl lacks useful attacking moves aside from Rock Slide anyway. I also went for an Adamant nature to deal a little bit more damage with Rock Slide, which I think was worth it.
For the Metagross (RNG'd in BW, not the actual ORAS shiny event), Iron Head, Ice Punch and Earthquake were straightforward, reliable choices with Steven's Aerodactyl being Ground-immune. For the fourth move, I initially used Thunder Punch, but changed it to Grass Knot shortly after to be able to hit Water/Ground types, which would otherwise wall the entire team save for Steven's Metagross.
The addition of Wide Guard helps Steven a lot against Earthquake and Water-types and sometimes allows Aerodactyl + Aerodactyl to beat Rock Slide users. When the other three moves wouldn't do a whole lot, Tailwind is a good choice to secure the Speed advantage with Steven's Metagross outspeeding the whole Maison prior to Hammer Arm speed drops, and most of it even at -1 Speed.
The Battle Chatelaines are a particularly bad match-up for this team - if Nita brings out Landorus, both Metagrosses will probably be smoked by Earth Power, and Musketeers give a hard time to Aerodactyl - I'd made it to the Chatelaines once before this, and lost to Landorus without a chance. In this streak, the Chatelaines brought out Latias/Thundurus/Virizion/Tornadus, which were probably the most favourable match-ups for this team, with Landorus and the tougher Musketeers being omitted. Landorus in particular will show up 2/3 of the time with Nita having three Pokémon to choose from - it's reasonably lucky to get this win with only two runs total making it to the Chatelaine.
While it was very fun to finally be able to beat the Chatelaines and stack up 40 lucky wins on top of that, I wouldn't recommend trying it. Using the same Pokémon as the AI partner only amplifies their weaknesses rather than covering them, and while Wide Guard, Tailwind and different coverage options on my Metagross help against some of them, it is still an exceptionally one-dimensional team with two weak flying fossils and no switch options to speak of.RY6G-WWWW-WW29-C77K - #91 vs. Zapdos/Exploud/Moltres/Spiritomb
The loss. The opposing trainers lead off with Zapdos2/Exploud4 - I go for Rock Slide, and Heat Wave + Icy Wind destroys the frontline with a big Speed drop allowing Zapdos to outspeed Aerodactyl.
Wait, what? As it turns out, I had screwed up EV training the Aerodactyl somehow, and it was missing a single point in Speed, putting it at 181. At that speed tier, having one point less doesn't matter at all... but with a Speed drop, 181 Speed drops to 120 (tying with Zapdos2) while 182 would keep it at 121 and outspeed it. D'oh!
Afterwards, I lose in a straightforward manner - there wasn't much hax involved, it was just a bad match-up with the enemy Pokémon choosing unfavorable moves and the crucial Speed failure. Wide Guard on Turn 1 would have won the battle, but Zapdos might also have been Set1, or used Charge Beam (which it did on Turn 2) or Double Team, in which case forgoing the opportunity to damage it with Rock Slide would have been terrible. Rock Slide also has an useful flinch chance, so I think it was the safer choice even though it backfired.
77CG-WWWW-WW29-C79P - #87 vs. Regirock/Arcanine/Articuno/Emboar
Wide Guard blocks Regirock's Rock Slides until the move's PP (not maxed) is depleted, salvaging a battle that could otherwise have turned sour with two dangerous Fire-types taking out Steven's Metagross and threatening mine.
I now have all five Trophies in ORAS with AI Multis finally out of the way.
Nobody has used an AI partner that's not Steven yet! I know it's because he's the best one but still :o
If Maxie didn't use a villain-esque team and brought something other than Crobat (read: TR feasible) I'd use him in a heartbeat, since his Camerupt is built to kill.
His Crobat is arguably less shitty than Aerodactyl, even, since it won't call on awful fang moves for "coverage" when LO Brave Bird is a better option, but it still hits like a... well, Crobat and inevitably dies on its first or second turn. Megagross also has less to worry about than Megarupt and if it isn't OHKOd by a fire move, it usually loses by way of stupidly choosing its attacks. I had a perfectly winnable battle go to hell because it avoided a guaranteed OHKO via Bullet Punch.
His Crobat is arguably less shitty than Aerodactyl, even, since it won't call on awful fang moves for "coverage" when LO Brave Bird is a better option, but it still hits like a... well, Crobat and inevitably dies on its first or second turn. Megagross also has less to worry about than Megarupt and if it isn't OHKOd by a fire move, it usually loses by way of stupidly choosing its attacks. I had a perfectly winnable battle go to hell because it avoided a guaranteed OHKO via Bullet Punch.
You know what would be fun though? Trying the same team with your Aerodactyl and Metagross having 0 defensive IVs to see how often the opponent would double target you.
Because hacks are so easy to abuse, I prefer to keep our blanket "no hacks" rule. I would not be surprised at all, however, if there are streaks on the board where people have used "legal hacks" since there's no way to clearly identify such from replays alone, so eliminating such isn't a huge priority.
I managed to get a 122-win streak in Super Singles with a FWG core. I probably could of gotten more but I was sleepy asf and made some sloppy plays. I also don't know any of the trainers and their pokemon so there's that.
Forgot to record the losing battle though.
Here's the team:
Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Rock Tomb
- Spore
I lead with this dude and he gets a kill every time, because you know, spore op.
Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain
- Roost
Surprisingly bulky and can set up easily. Don't run Bug Buzz because Fire/Grass coverage is enough and I feel like Roost puts in more work.
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Crunch
Is guaranteed a Dragon Dance every time because of Intimidate and high Special Defense.
Proof: http://imgur.com/BGRT690
Not too creative, but hey it works.
Forgot to record the losing battle though.
Here's the team:
Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Rock Tomb
- Spore
I lead with this dude and he gets a kill every time, because you know, spore op.
Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain
- Roost
Surprisingly bulky and can set up easily. Don't run Bug Buzz because Fire/Grass coverage is enough and I feel like Roost puts in more work.
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Crunch
Is guaranteed a Dragon Dance every time because of Intimidate and high Special Defense.
Proof: http://imgur.com/BGRT690
Not too creative, but hey it works.
Posting a Doubles streak of 506 wins.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP, 4 Def, 252 SAtk, 4 SDef, 244 Spe
-Hyper Voice
-Flamethrower
-Tailwind
-Protect
Hitmonlee @ Focus Sash ** Deliani
Ability: Limber
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Close Combat
-Sucker Punch
-Knock Off
-Fake Out
Sylveon @ Choice Specs ** Soh Jin
Ability: Pixilate
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP, 4 Def, 252 SAtk, 4 SDef, 244 Spe
-Hyper Voice
-Shadow Ball
-Psyshock
-Swift
Scizor @ Life Orb ** Camanis
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 124 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def, 4 SDef, 124 Spe
-Bullet Punch
-Bug Bite
-Superpower
-Protect
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP, 4 Def, 252 SAtk, 4 SDef, 244 Spe
-Hyper Voice
-Flamethrower
-Tailwind
-Protect
Hitmonlee @ Focus Sash ** Deliani
Ability: Limber
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Close Combat
-Sucker Punch
-Knock Off
-Fake Out
Sylveon @ Choice Specs ** Soh Jin
Ability: Pixilate
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP, 4 Def, 252 SAtk, 4 SDef, 244 Spe
-Hyper Voice
-Shadow Ball
-Psyshock
-Swift
Scizor @ Life Orb ** Camanis
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 124 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def, 4 SDef, 124 Spe
-Bullet Punch
-Bug Bite
-Superpower
-Protect
Some time after playing Aerodactyl with Tailwind in Multis, I got the idea to pair up Mega Pidgeot with Hitmonlee and Sylveon, with a Tailwind option to support mainly Sylveon, but also Hitmonlee and the rest of the team. For the fourth Pokémon, I added Scizor for some stock glue and went to play.
I wasn't thinking too much while doing that, and ended up using a Hitmonlee with Knock Off and Mach Punch, alongside a Timid Mega Pidgeot with Hurricane/Heat Wave/Tailwind/Protect. After breeding the team and playing it for 50 battles, I realized that Mega Salamence would outclass Mega Pidgeot as a Tailwind setter with its better bulk, offense, Intimidate, and typing - but I continued to play Mega Pidgeot because I'd wanted to use it. The team worked out a lot better than I expected from something with Mega Pidgeot on it, and ended up getting 290 wins with a lot of luck along the way.
After the streak ended, I scrapped Mega Pidgeot and brought in a Timid Mega Salamence with Tailwind and switched to a different Hitmonlee with Sucker Punch/Knock Off. The 290-win streak with Pidgeot seemed like a lucky break - I expected Mega Salamence and a proper Hitmonlee to do better than Pidgeot, but it exceeded my expectations and ended up putting together a decent win streak.
For Mega Salamence, I picked a special set as it was also going to serve as a Tailwind setter which left no room for Dragon Dance, and Earthquake would not be viable with Hitmonlee and Sylveon both being highly vulnerable to it. Same as physical Mega Salamence, I went for 4HP/4Def/4SDef at the cost of one point of Speed to survive CH Stone Edge from Darmanitan4 while losing out on a couple of speed ties. Even though this team uses Tailwind frequently, I also wanted to be able to attack on Turn 1, so a Timid nature was needed to outspeed Starmie, Froslass and others without Tailwind. I considered HP Ground over Flamethrower, but with Mega Salamence's low Special Attack stat it fails to OHKO Heatran, and seems too weak to be worth it.
Hitmonlee is lifted straight from Peterko's Frontier and Subway teams, where he used it to great effect. Hitmonlee is still a very viable Pokémon - among Fake Out leads, it has the highest damage output with Close Combat, the hardest-hitting priority move in Sucker Punch, and immunity to Paralysis with Limber which gives it a much better match-up against Roller Skaters than most of its peers. On the flip side, its Speed is underwhelming and while Sucker Punch is effective, it can fall behind badly when Close Combat is needed. It also does poorly against Flying-types - especially Zapdos, Thundurus, Tornadus, and Landorus among Veteran threats, and Dragon/Flying-types. Fairies are also bad news for it, but the Maison's Fairy selection is pretty underwhelming so that's less of a problem. Hitmonlee got new toy in the 6th generation with a powerful Knock Off, which has more utility than Mach Punch in general and helps this team against Chandelure and Trick Room setters. With Close Combat to destroy the Rock- and Steel-types that resist Hyper Voice, Hitmonlee fits this team nicely, and Tailwind also solves its Speed problem. Hitmonlee also has the option to run Unburden, but it cannot be combined with Sucker Punch, is unreliable, and Limber is a very good ability that protects it from Static and Thunder Wave. Regarding the AI's behaviour against Limber, the AI doesn't seem to recognize it right away as it sometimes uses Thunder Wave on Hitmonlee, which is always welcome.
Sylveon uses Specs Hyper Voice, preferably under Tailwind. Swift has perfect accuracy, which has been useful against Zapdos2 and avoiding Snow Cloak/Sand Veil risk. Shadow Ball hits Chandelure, which the team is weak to if Hitmonlee has gone down. Psyshock hits Poison-types. HP Ground could be an option over Psyshock to hit Heatran and Steel-types better - but it would miss KOs on Poison-types. With Tailwind support, Sylveon hits 222 Speed, outspeeding most of the Maison. Cutting Speed by one point is irrelevant when under Tailwind, but outside Tailwind it makes Sylveon lose out on speed tying Beartic4, Regirock4 and Registeel2 and makes it tie Clawitzer4. This was never a problem during the streak, but it could make a difference. With Pixilate Hyper Voice and Fairy-typing, Sylveon destroys the Dragon-types that give the leads trouble with MegaMence not being able to run Dragon Pulse and generally nukes the field. It can also function without Tailwind in a pinch, with priority from Scizor picking off weakened targets and its good Special bulk, but it benefits a lot from the Speed advantage.
Scizor is a standard gluemon to cover Salamence and Sylveon. Since the team has massive problems with Heatran if Hitmonlee is down, I wanted to outspeed it and increased its Speed to 101 to accomplish it and invested a couple more points to outspeed many others and avoid ties. Under Tailwind, it also gives Scizor 202 Speed, which is a nice Speed tier. In hindsight, there could be value in going to 103 Speed to outspeed Milotic - this would give Scizor 159 HP to minimize Life Orb recoil. Going up to 106 to outspeed Suicune, and Heatran4/Charizard3/Electrode under Tailwind could also be an option.
Generally, battles open with Hitmonlee using Fake Out while Mega Salamence uses either Hyper Voice to go for a double KO on Turn 2, or uses Tailwind to gain the Speed advantage against faster opposition. Attacking right away, using Protect, or switching are also options. If Mega Salamence is going to get KO'd, it can set up Tailwind on its last move to make way for Sylveon to sweep.
With two Pokémon that are completely reliant on spread moves, Wide Guard is a large threat to the team. Howewer, Mienshao4 has never used it against this team and Bastiodon4 is easily knocked out - Regigigas4 is a large threat and the team doesn't have a whole lot going against it. I met Regigigas4 using Wide Guard once during the streak, and had to rely on luck for it to not use Wide Guard too much, which worked out that time. Other large threats include:
I wasn't thinking too much while doing that, and ended up using a Hitmonlee with Knock Off and Mach Punch, alongside a Timid Mega Pidgeot with Hurricane/Heat Wave/Tailwind/Protect. After breeding the team and playing it for 50 battles, I realized that Mega Salamence would outclass Mega Pidgeot as a Tailwind setter with its better bulk, offense, Intimidate, and typing - but I continued to play Mega Pidgeot because I'd wanted to use it. The team worked out a lot better than I expected from something with Mega Pidgeot on it, and ended up getting 290 wins with a lot of luck along the way.
After the streak ended, I scrapped Mega Pidgeot and brought in a Timid Mega Salamence with Tailwind and switched to a different Hitmonlee with Sucker Punch/Knock Off. The 290-win streak with Pidgeot seemed like a lucky break - I expected Mega Salamence and a proper Hitmonlee to do better than Pidgeot, but it exceeded my expectations and ended up putting together a decent win streak.
For Mega Salamence, I picked a special set as it was also going to serve as a Tailwind setter which left no room for Dragon Dance, and Earthquake would not be viable with Hitmonlee and Sylveon both being highly vulnerable to it. Same as physical Mega Salamence, I went for 4HP/4Def/4SDef at the cost of one point of Speed to survive CH Stone Edge from Darmanitan4 while losing out on a couple of speed ties. Even though this team uses Tailwind frequently, I also wanted to be able to attack on Turn 1, so a Timid nature was needed to outspeed Starmie, Froslass and others without Tailwind. I considered HP Ground over Flamethrower, but with Mega Salamence's low Special Attack stat it fails to OHKO Heatran, and seems too weak to be worth it.
Hitmonlee is lifted straight from Peterko's Frontier and Subway teams, where he used it to great effect. Hitmonlee is still a very viable Pokémon - among Fake Out leads, it has the highest damage output with Close Combat, the hardest-hitting priority move in Sucker Punch, and immunity to Paralysis with Limber which gives it a much better match-up against Roller Skaters than most of its peers. On the flip side, its Speed is underwhelming and while Sucker Punch is effective, it can fall behind badly when Close Combat is needed. It also does poorly against Flying-types - especially Zapdos, Thundurus, Tornadus, and Landorus among Veteran threats, and Dragon/Flying-types. Fairies are also bad news for it, but the Maison's Fairy selection is pretty underwhelming so that's less of a problem. Hitmonlee got new toy in the 6th generation with a powerful Knock Off, which has more utility than Mach Punch in general and helps this team against Chandelure and Trick Room setters. With Close Combat to destroy the Rock- and Steel-types that resist Hyper Voice, Hitmonlee fits this team nicely, and Tailwind also solves its Speed problem. Hitmonlee also has the option to run Unburden, but it cannot be combined with Sucker Punch, is unreliable, and Limber is a very good ability that protects it from Static and Thunder Wave. Regarding the AI's behaviour against Limber, the AI doesn't seem to recognize it right away as it sometimes uses Thunder Wave on Hitmonlee, which is always welcome.
Sylveon uses Specs Hyper Voice, preferably under Tailwind. Swift has perfect accuracy, which has been useful against Zapdos2 and avoiding Snow Cloak/Sand Veil risk. Shadow Ball hits Chandelure, which the team is weak to if Hitmonlee has gone down. Psyshock hits Poison-types. HP Ground could be an option over Psyshock to hit Heatran and Steel-types better - but it would miss KOs on Poison-types. With Tailwind support, Sylveon hits 222 Speed, outspeeding most of the Maison. Cutting Speed by one point is irrelevant when under Tailwind, but outside Tailwind it makes Sylveon lose out on speed tying Beartic4, Regirock4 and Registeel2 and makes it tie Clawitzer4. This was never a problem during the streak, but it could make a difference. With Pixilate Hyper Voice and Fairy-typing, Sylveon destroys the Dragon-types that give the leads trouble with MegaMence not being able to run Dragon Pulse and generally nukes the field. It can also function without Tailwind in a pinch, with priority from Scizor picking off weakened targets and its good Special bulk, but it benefits a lot from the Speed advantage.
Scizor is a standard gluemon to cover Salamence and Sylveon. Since the team has massive problems with Heatran if Hitmonlee is down, I wanted to outspeed it and increased its Speed to 101 to accomplish it and invested a couple more points to outspeed many others and avoid ties. Under Tailwind, it also gives Scizor 202 Speed, which is a nice Speed tier. In hindsight, there could be value in going to 103 Speed to outspeed Milotic - this would give Scizor 159 HP to minimize Life Orb recoil. Going up to 106 to outspeed Suicune, and Heatran4/Charizard3/Electrode under Tailwind could also be an option.
Generally, battles open with Hitmonlee using Fake Out while Mega Salamence uses either Hyper Voice to go for a double KO on Turn 2, or uses Tailwind to gain the Speed advantage against faster opposition. Attacking right away, using Protect, or switching are also options. If Mega Salamence is going to get KO'd, it can set up Tailwind on its last move to make way for Sylveon to sweep.
With two Pokémon that are completely reliant on spread moves, Wide Guard is a large threat to the team. Howewer, Mienshao4 has never used it against this team and Bastiodon4 is easily knocked out - Regigigas4 is a large threat and the team doesn't have a whole lot going against it. I met Regigigas4 using Wide Guard once during the streak, and had to rely on luck for it to not use Wide Guard too much, which worked out that time. Other large threats include:
- Heatran, which walls MegaMence and Sylveon
- Chandelure, as only Hitmonlee Knock Off is very effective against it and it resists Sylveon Hyper Voice and KOs Scizor
- Freezes from Ice moves - Salamence has to switch out against many leads, and is especially vulnerable to Blizzard from the likes of Suicune and Glaceon
- Fast Taunt - especially Crobat4, which is unpredictable and can Taunt Salamence to prevent Tailwind from going up, which is bad as lead Crobat on a Roller Skater team would otherwise be a prime situation for Tailwind.
- Altaria4 - Salamence and Hitmonlee both match up badly against it, and will use Sing most of the time, putting a Pokémon to sleep if it hits. While it doesn't deal much damage on its own, having Pokémon put to sleep really impedes Tailwind antics and can cause a lot of trouble.
- Drifblim3 - a Roller Skater-exclusive set with Icy Wind. Drifblim4 is outsped by Hitmonlee and can be reliably taken down with Hyper Voice + Knock Off, but if you try to do that against Drifblim3 which outspeeds Hitmonlee you get smacked hard by Icy Wind. To make things worse, targeting Sucker Punch on Drifblim is not reliable as it may also be Set4 and use Hypnosis instead.
- Faster Fake Out users - Weavile4 uses Ice Punch most of the time, and is generally shut down with Fake Out from Hitmonlee. Infernape4 may use either Fake Out or an attacking move. Jynx4 uses Blizzard and gets KO'd by Sucker Punch. Kangaskhan4 likely uses Fake Out.
- Talonflame4 - with a resistance to Sylveon's Hyper Voice, priority Brave Bird, Sitrus Berry, and Swords Dance, and possibly Flame Body, it can be a pest. Its Gale Wings Brave Bird also outspeeds Hitmonlee's Sucker Punch, and nothing really wants to switch into it.
- Rhyperior4 - with Solid Rock, it isn't hit hard by Close Combat and often gets off several attacks. It also uses Protect randomly, which can make targeting it in the first place backfire.
- Donphan4, Muk4 - hard-hitting physical attackers with Quick Claw can destroy Sylveon regardless of whether Tailwind is up when their item activates, and thanks to Choice Specs, Protect is not an option. There's not much that can be done about it, other than hoping that Quick Claw will not activate.
- Sand Stream/Snow Warning - with extremely low Defense, Hitmonlee is a lot more dependent on its Focus Sash than something like Greninja. Weather abilities make Hitmonlee die very fast.
- Volcarona4 - Mega Salamence can 2HKO it with Hyper Voice, but if Salamence is down when it comes out it's going to destroy the whole team. I never encountered Volcarona while Salamence was down during this streak, fortunately.
- Metagross4 - it threatens Sylveon and is difficult to kill with its bulk.
- Charizard4 - with Assault Vest and a Fairy resistance, it doesn't mind spread attacks from Salamence and Sylveon while threatening Salamence with Dragon Pulse and the rest of the team with Heat Wave.
- Trick Room - Mega Salamence's Hyper Voice is suitable for grabbing 2HKOs with support, but its Turn 1 firepower is pretty lacking. Fake Out helps, but against Bronzong, Aromatisse and Slowbro, it's very difficult to stop the dimensions from twisting. While under Trick Room, Scizor and Sylveon can serve well and Hitmonlee has Sucker Punch, but it's not a great situation to be in, especially if something like Chandelure4 shows up during it.
Battle video: #507 - PZJW-WWWW-WW2B-F5SG vs. Articuno/Zapdos/Heatran/Latias
Turn 0
Veteran Sibyl sent out Articuno and Zapdos
I sent out Salamence and Hitmonlee
100%
100%
vs.
100%
100%
Intimidate activated before Pressure, so I know I'm facing Zapdos2. This is not a great MU - I might not want to stay in with Salamence and instead want to go for a Sylveon sweep with Tailwind, as Salamence can't hurt Zapdos and does badly against Articuno. I opt to set up Tailwind while Hitmonlee Fakes Out Articuno.
In retrospect, this was clearly a misplay with the information I had. Here are the calcs on Articuno2:
252 SpA Aerilate Mega Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Articuno: 49-58 (24.8 - 29.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Hitmonlee Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Articuno: 97-115 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
Fake Out + Hyper Voice into Hyper Voice + Close Combat on Turn 2 would knock out both Articuno sets all of the time. Using Tailwind was not really useful. If Zapdos1 was a possibility, Tailwind could be justified Mence's and Hitmonlee's T2 movement can't be guaranteed against it; but since I knew it was Zapdos2, that was not a risk. It's hard to say if this misplay contributed to the loss, as it ended up working out thanks to luck.
Turn 1
Hitmonlee used Fake Out on Articuno
Salamence used Tailwind
Zapdos used Heat Wave on Salamence and Hitmonlee
Articuno flinched
100%
90%
vs.
90%
80%
Heat Wave isn't great with Hitmonlee losing its Sash. I go for Hyper Voice + CC on Articuno, which might get the KO - but if it misses it, I'm prepared for a Sylveon sweep.
Turn 2
Salamence used Hyper Voice on Articuno and Zapdos
Hitmonlee used Close Combat on Articuno - Articuno KO
Zapdos used Charge Beam on Salamence
Veteran Sibyl sent out Latias
85%
100%
vs.
65%
80%
Articuno ends up being KO'd, and things are looking up with Tailwind set and a Knock Off victim showing up. Latias can also get KO'd by Sylveon if it survives. I go for Hyper Voice + Knock Off to KO Latias if it is Set2, and remove its hax item and damage both Pokémon if it is Set1.
If I had gone for Hyper Voice on Turn 1, Articuno would be KO'd 100% of the time. But because of favorable damage rolls and Articuno being Set1, that didn't end up mattering.
Turn 3
Hitmonlee used Knock Off on Latias - Latias's Lax Incense was knocked off!
Salamence used Hyper Voice on Latias and Zapdos
Latias used Mist Ball on Hitmonlee - Hitmonlee KO
Zapdos used Charge Beam on Salamence - Zapdos's Special Attack rose!
I sent out Sylveon
70%
15%
vs.
40%
100%
Latias KOs Hitmonlee, making way for Sylveon - I'd also have been okay with Mence getting KO'd to make way for Sylveon, as Tailwind is still up and running. With Sylveon out, Hyper Voice is going to grab some KOs.
Turn 4
Salamence used Protect
Sylveon used Hyper Voice on Latias and Zapdos - Latias KO, Zapdos miss
Zapdos used Roost
I's Tailwind ran out!
Veteran Sibyl sent out Heatran
100%
100%
vs.
40%
100%
I'm not sure why I went for Protect on this turn - maybe I was afraid of Charge Beam KOing Salamence? This was a misplay, as Latias's hax item was removed and Hyper Voice would KO it, which in turn would allow Sylveon's Hyper Voice to hit Zapdos for 100% damage rather than 75% spread damage. Howewer, with Sylveon Hyper Voice missing thanks to BrightPowder, this didn't end up mattering and Zapdos heals to full with Roost.
If Hyper Voice (47.2% - 55.3%) hit on this turn, Zapdos would be at ~70% HP after Roost, which would allow me to focus fire it with Flamethrower + Hyper Voice and possibly KO it. Howewer, as Tailwind is out, there is also a chance that Zapdos would Roost before Sylveon moves on that turn. Using Hyper Voice on Mega Salamence and having Sylveon's 100% Hyper Voice hit Zapdos was my best chance to win the battle, and I didn't get it with both the Protect misplay and the miss.
With Heatran, the Veteran Pokémon Sylveon does worst against, on the field, I'm now in a really bad position. My only answer to Heatran is Scizor's Superpower, but with Zapdos on the field and at full HP, I will need Tailwind for it to be able to move before Zapdos usesd Heat Wave. I go for Tailwind and switch Sylveon for Scizor, expecting Zapdos to finish off Salamence with +1 Charge Beam and Heatran to use Flash Cannon to allow me to KO Heatran on the next turn and have Sylveon face Zapdos 1v1. If Flash Cannon hits Sylveon, I will also lose as Sylveon needs to be healthy to have a chance against Zapdos so the switch is the only play I can make at this point.
Turn 5
Switch out Sylveon for Scizor
Salamence used Tailwind
Zapdos used Heat Wave on Salamence and Scizor - Scizor KO
Heatran used Flash Cannon on Salamence - Salamence KO
I sent out Sylveon
100%
100%
vs.
100%
Aaaaand Zapdos uses Heat Wave, blocking my last chance to make a winning play. So long, streak!
Zapdos behaved pretty erratically in this battle as a whole. Heat Wave on Turn 1, followed by several Charge Beams, followed by Heat Wave on a resistant Salamence and neutral Sylveon when I switch in Scizor.
When I played this battle, I thought +1 Charge Beam was going to KO Salamence and thought it was the most likely move, but when I did the calcs for this write-up...
+1 0 SpA Zapdos Charge Beam vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Mega Salamence: 57-67 (33.3 - 39.1%)
Salamence had exactly 68 hit points left. This makes the Protect on the previous turn a total misplay, and explains why Zap could have gone for Heat Wave - though its behaviour can be pretty random either way, and any of its three non-Roost moves would have been possible.
Turn 6
Sylveon used Hyper Voice on Heatran and Zapdos
Zapdos used Charge Beam on Sylveon
Heatran used Flash Cannon on Sylveon
50%
90%
vs.
20%
Turn 7
Sylveon used Hyper Voice on Heatran and Zapdos - Zapdos KO
Heatran used Flash Cannon on Sylveon - Sylveon KO
80%
vs.
(nothing)
Veteran Sibyl wins!
Turn 0
Veteran Sibyl sent out Articuno and Zapdos
I sent out Salamence and Hitmonlee
vs.
Intimidate activated before Pressure, so I know I'm facing Zapdos2. This is not a great MU - I might not want to stay in with Salamence and instead want to go for a Sylveon sweep with Tailwind, as Salamence can't hurt Zapdos and does badly against Articuno. I opt to set up Tailwind while Hitmonlee Fakes Out Articuno.
In retrospect, this was clearly a misplay with the information I had. Here are the calcs on Articuno2:
252 SpA Aerilate Mega Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Articuno: 49-58 (24.8 - 29.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Hitmonlee Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Articuno: 97-115 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
Fake Out + Hyper Voice into Hyper Voice + Close Combat on Turn 2 would knock out both Articuno sets all of the time. Using Tailwind was not really useful. If Zapdos1 was a possibility, Tailwind could be justified Mence's and Hitmonlee's T2 movement can't be guaranteed against it; but since I knew it was Zapdos2, that was not a risk. It's hard to say if this misplay contributed to the loss, as it ended up working out thanks to luck.
Turn 1
Hitmonlee used Fake Out on Articuno
Salamence used Tailwind
Zapdos used Heat Wave on Salamence and Hitmonlee
Articuno flinched
vs.
Heat Wave isn't great with Hitmonlee losing its Sash. I go for Hyper Voice + CC on Articuno, which might get the KO - but if it misses it, I'm prepared for a Sylveon sweep.
Turn 2
Salamence used Hyper Voice on Articuno and Zapdos
Hitmonlee used Close Combat on Articuno - Articuno KO
Zapdos used Charge Beam on Salamence
Veteran Sibyl sent out Latias
vs.
Articuno ends up being KO'd, and things are looking up with Tailwind set and a Knock Off victim showing up. Latias can also get KO'd by Sylveon if it survives. I go for Hyper Voice + Knock Off to KO Latias if it is Set2, and remove its hax item and damage both Pokémon if it is Set1.
If I had gone for Hyper Voice on Turn 1, Articuno would be KO'd 100% of the time. But because of favorable damage rolls and Articuno being Set1, that didn't end up mattering.
Turn 3
Hitmonlee used Knock Off on Latias - Latias's Lax Incense was knocked off!
Salamence used Hyper Voice on Latias and Zapdos
Latias used Mist Ball on Hitmonlee - Hitmonlee KO
Zapdos used Charge Beam on Salamence - Zapdos's Special Attack rose!
I sent out Sylveon
vs.
Latias KOs Hitmonlee, making way for Sylveon - I'd also have been okay with Mence getting KO'd to make way for Sylveon, as Tailwind is still up and running. With Sylveon out, Hyper Voice is going to grab some KOs.
Turn 4
Salamence used Protect
Sylveon used Hyper Voice on Latias and Zapdos - Latias KO, Zapdos miss
Zapdos used Roost
I's Tailwind ran out!
Veteran Sibyl sent out Heatran
vs.
I'm not sure why I went for Protect on this turn - maybe I was afraid of Charge Beam KOing Salamence? This was a misplay, as Latias's hax item was removed and Hyper Voice would KO it, which in turn would allow Sylveon's Hyper Voice to hit Zapdos for 100% damage rather than 75% spread damage. Howewer, with Sylveon Hyper Voice missing thanks to BrightPowder, this didn't end up mattering and Zapdos heals to full with Roost.
If Hyper Voice (47.2% - 55.3%) hit on this turn, Zapdos would be at ~70% HP after Roost, which would allow me to focus fire it with Flamethrower + Hyper Voice and possibly KO it. Howewer, as Tailwind is out, there is also a chance that Zapdos would Roost before Sylveon moves on that turn. Using Hyper Voice on Mega Salamence and having Sylveon's 100% Hyper Voice hit Zapdos was my best chance to win the battle, and I didn't get it with both the Protect misplay and the miss.
With Heatran, the Veteran Pokémon Sylveon does worst against, on the field, I'm now in a really bad position. My only answer to Heatran is Scizor's Superpower, but with Zapdos on the field and at full HP, I will need Tailwind for it to be able to move before Zapdos usesd Heat Wave. I go for Tailwind and switch Sylveon for Scizor, expecting Zapdos to finish off Salamence with +1 Charge Beam and Heatran to use Flash Cannon to allow me to KO Heatran on the next turn and have Sylveon face Zapdos 1v1. If Flash Cannon hits Sylveon, I will also lose as Sylveon needs to be healthy to have a chance against Zapdos so the switch is the only play I can make at this point.
Turn 5
Switch out Sylveon for Scizor
Salamence used Tailwind
Zapdos used Heat Wave on Salamence and Scizor - Scizor KO
Heatran used Flash Cannon on Salamence - Salamence KO
I sent out Sylveon
vs.
Aaaaand Zapdos uses Heat Wave, blocking my last chance to make a winning play. So long, streak!
Zapdos behaved pretty erratically in this battle as a whole. Heat Wave on Turn 1, followed by several Charge Beams, followed by Heat Wave on a resistant Salamence and neutral Sylveon when I switch in Scizor.
When I played this battle, I thought +1 Charge Beam was going to KO Salamence and thought it was the most likely move, but when I did the calcs for this write-up...
+1 0 SpA Zapdos Charge Beam vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Mega Salamence: 57-67 (33.3 - 39.1%)
Salamence had exactly 68 hit points left. This makes the Protect on the previous turn a total misplay, and explains why Zap could have gone for Heat Wave - though its behaviour can be pretty random either way, and any of its three non-Roost moves would have been possible.
Turn 6
Sylveon used Hyper Voice on Heatran and Zapdos
Zapdos used Charge Beam on Sylveon
Heatran used Flash Cannon on Sylveon
vs.
Turn 7
Sylveon used Hyper Voice on Heatran and Zapdos - Zapdos KO
Heatran used Flash Cannon on Sylveon - Sylveon KO
vs.
(nothing)
Veteran Sibyl wins!
Last edited:
Also nice to see Hitmonlee (and turskain!) back in action. I just noticed that you're pretty damn good with Dragons; over 1000 in Singles with Dragonite, over 1000 in Triples with Mega Mence (and Garchomp, of course!), 500+ streaks in Doubles with Mega Mence (twice!) and Garchomp, and a completely untouched 610 wins in Rotations with Dragonite. That's three different Dragons who are each on two separate 500+ teams; pretty amazing, really. Well done!Posting a Doubles streak of 506 wins.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP, 4 Def, 252 SAtk, 4 SDef, 244 Spe
-Hyper Voice
-Flamethrower
-Tailwind
-Protect
Hitmonlee @ Focus Sash ** Deliani
Ability: Limber
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Close Combat
-Sucker Punch
-Knock Off
-Fake Out
Sylveon @ Choice Specs ** Soh Jin
Ability: Pixilate
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP, 4 Def, 252 SAtk, 4 SDef, 244 Spe
-Hyper Voice
-Shadow Ball
-Psyshock
-Swift
Scizor @ Life Orb ** Camanis
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 124 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def, 4 SDef, 124 Spe
-Bullet Punch
-Bug Bite
-Superpower
-ProtectSome time after playing Aerodactyl with Tailwind in Multis, I got the idea to pair up Mega Pidgeot with Hitmonlee and Sylveon, with a Tailwind option to support mainly Sylveon, but also Hitmonlee and the rest of the team. For the fourth Pokémon, I added Scizor for some stock glue and went to play.
I wasn't thinking too much while doing that, and ended up using a Hitmonlee with Knock Off and Mach Punch, alongside a Timid Mega Pidgeot with Hurricane/Heat Wave/Tailwind/Protect. After breeding the team and playing it for 50 battles, I realized that Mega Salamence would outclass Mega Pidgeot as a Tailwind setter with its better bulk, offense, Intimidate, and typing - but I continued to play Mega Pidgeot because I'd wanted to use it. The team worked out a lot better than I expected from something with Mega Pidgeot on it, and ended up getting 290 wins with a lot of luck along the way.
After the streak ended, I scrapped Mega Pidgeot and brought in a Timid Mega Salamence with Tailwind and switched to a different Hitmonlee with Sucker Punch/Knock Off. The 290-win streak with Pidgeot seemed like a lucky break - I expected Mega Salamence and a proper Hitmonlee to do better than Pidgeot, but it exceeded my expectations and ended up putting together a decent win streak.
For Mega Salamence, I picked a special set as it was also going to serve as a Tailwind setter which left no room for Dragon Dance, and Earthquake would not be viable with Hitmonlee and Sylveon both being highly vulnerable to it. Same as physical Mega Salamence, I went for 4HP/4Def/4SDef at the cost of one point of Speed to survive CH Stone Edge from Darmanitan4 while losing out on a couple of speed ties. Even though this team uses Tailwind frequently, I also wanted to be able to attack on Turn 1, so a Timid nature was needed to outspeed Starmie, Froslass and others without Tailwind. I considered HP Ground over Flamethrower, but with Mega Salamence's low Special Attack stat it fails to OHKO Heatran, and seems too weak to be worth it.
Hitmonlee is lifted straight from Peterko's Frontier and Subway teams, where he used it to great effect. Hitmonlee is still a very viable Pokémon - among Fake Out leads, it has the highest damage output with Close Combat, the hardest-hitting priority move in Sucker Punch, and immunity to Paralysis with Limber which gives it a much better match-up against Roller Skaters than most of its peers. On the flip side, its Speed is underwhelming and while Sucker Punch is effective, it can fall behind badly when Close Combat is needed. It also does poorly against Flying-types - especially Zapdos, Thundurus, Tornadus, and Landorus among Veteran threats, and Dragon/Flying-types. Fairies are also bad news for it, but the Maison's Fairy selection is pretty underwhelming so that's less of a problem. Hitmonlee got new toy in the 6th generation with a powerful Knock Off, which has more utility than Mach Punch in general and helps this team against Chandelure and Trick Room setters. With Close Combat to destroy the Rock- and Steel-types that resist Hyper Voice, Hitmonlee fits this team nicely, and Tailwind also solves its Speed problem. Hitmonlee also has the option to run Unburden, but it cannot be combined with Sucker Punch, is unreliable, and Limber is a very good ability that protects it from Static and Thunder Wave. Regarding the AI's behaviour against Limber, the AI doesn't seem to recognize it right away as it sometimes uses Thunder Wave on Hitmonlee, which is always welcome.
Sylveon uses Specs Hyper Voice, preferably under Tailwind. Swift has perfect accuracy, which has been useful against Zapdos2 and avoiding Snow Cloak/Sand Veil risk. Shadow Ball hits Chandelure, which the team is weak to if Hitmonlee has gone down. Psyshock hits Poison-types. HP Ground could be an option over Psyshock to hit Heatran and Steel-types better - but it would miss KOs on Poison-types. With Tailwind support, Sylveon hits 222 Speed, outspeeding most of the Maison. Cutting Speed by one point is irrelevant when under Tailwind, but outside Tailwind it makes Sylveon lose out on speed tying Beartic4, Regirock4 and Registeel2 and makes it tie Clawitzer4. This was never a problem during the streak, but it could make a difference. With Pixilate Hyper Voice and Fairy-typing, Sylveon destroys the Dragon-types that give the leads trouble with MegaMence not being able to run Dragon Pulse and generally nukes the field. It can also function without Tailwind in a pinch, with priority from Scizor picking off weakened targets and its good Special bulk, but it benefits a lot from the Speed advantage.
Scizor is a standard gluemon to cover Salamence and Sylveon. Since the team has massive problems with Heatran if Hitmonlee is down, I wanted to outspeed it and increased its Speed to 101 to accomplish it and invested a couple more points to outspeed many others and avoid ties. Under Tailwind, it also gives Scizor 202 Speed, which is a nice Speed tier. In hindsight, there could be value in going to 103 Speed to outspeed Milotic - this would give Scizor 159 HP to minimize Life Orb recoil. Going up to 106 to outspeed Suicune, and Heatran4/Charizard3/Electrode under Tailwind could also be an option.
Generally, battles open with Hitmonlee using Fake Out while Mega Salamence uses either Hyper Voice to go for a double KO on Turn 2, or uses Tailwind to gain the Speed advantage against faster opposition. Attacking right away, using Protect, or switching are also options. If Mega Salamence is going to get KO'd, it can set up Tailwind on its last move to make way for Sylveon to sweep.
With two Pokémon that are completely reliant on spread moves, Wide Guard is a large threat to the team. Howewer, Mienshao4 has never used it against this team and Bastiodon4 is easily knocked out - Regigigas4 is a large threat and the team doesn't have a whole lot going against it. I met Regigigas4 using Wide Guard once during the streak, and had to rely on luck for it to not use Wide Guard too much, which worked out that time. Other large threats include:
- Heatran, which walls MegaMence and Sylveon
- Chandelure, as only Hitmonlee Knock Off is very effective against it and it resists Sylveon Hyper Voice and KOs Scizor
- Freezes from Ice moves - Salamence has to switch out against many leads, and is especially vulnerable to Blizzard from the likes of Suicune and Glaceon
- Fast Taunt - especially Crobat4, which is unpredictable and can Taunt Salamence to prevent Tailwind from going up, which is bad as lead Crobat on a Roller Skater team would otherwise be a prime situation for Tailwind.
- Altaria4 - Salamence and Hitmonlee both match up badly against it, and will use Sing most of the time, putting a Pokémon to sleep if it hits. While it doesn't deal much damage on its own, having Pokémon put to sleep really impedes Tailwind antics and can cause a lot of trouble.
- Drifblim3 - a Roller Skater-exclusive set with Icy Wind. Drifblim4 is outsped by Hitmonlee and can be reliably taken down with Hyper Voice + Knock Off, but if you try to do that against Drifblim3 which outspeeds Hitmonlee you get smacked hard by Icy Wind. To make things worse, targeting Sucker Punch on Drifblim is not reliable as it may also be Set4 and use Hypnosis instead.
- Faster Fake Out users - Weavile4 uses Ice Punch most of the time, and is generally shut down with Fake Out from Hitmonlee. Infernape4 may use either Fake Out or an attacking move. Jynx4 uses Blizzard and gets KO'd by Sucker Punch. Kangaskhan4 likely uses Fake Out.
- Talonflame4 - with a resistance to Sylveon's Hyper Voice, priority Brave Bird, Sitrus Berry, and Swords Dance, and possibly Flame Body, it can be a pest. Its Gale Wings Brave Bird also outspeeds Hitmonlee's Sucker Punch, and nothing really wants to switch into it.
- Rhyperior4 - with Solid Rock, it isn't hit hard by Close Combat and often gets off several attacks. It also uses Protect randomly, which can make targeting it in the first place backfire.
- Donphan4, Muk4 - hard-hitting physical attackers with Quick Claw can destroy Sylveon regardless of whether Tailwind is up when their item activates, and thanks to Choice Specs, Protect is not an option. There's not much that can be done about it, other than hoping that Quick Claw will not activate.
- Sand Stream/Snow Warning - with extremely low Defense, Hitmonlee is a lot more dependent on its Focus Sash than something like Greninja. Weather abilities make Hitmonlee die very fast.
- Volcarona4 - Mega Salamence can 2HKO it with Hyper Voice, but if Salamence is down when it comes out it's going to destroy the whole team. I never encountered Volcarona while Salamence was down during this streak, fortunately.
- Metagross4 - it threatens Sylveon and is difficult to kill with its bulk.
- Charizard4 - with Assault Vest and a Fairy resistance, it doesn't mind spread attacks from Salamence and Sylveon while threatening Salamence with Dragon Pulse and the rest of the team with Heat Wave.
- Trick Room - Mega Salamence's Hyper Voice is suitable for grabbing 2HKOs with support, but its Turn 1 firepower is pretty lacking. Fake Out helps, but against Bronzong, Aromatisse and Slowbro, it's very difficult to stop the dimensions from twisting. While under Trick Room, Scizor and Sylveon can serve well and Hitmonlee has Sucker Punch, but it's not a great situation to be in, especially if something like Chandelure4 shows up during it.
Battle video: #507 - PZJW-WWWW-WW2B-F5SG vs. Articuno/Zapdos/Heatran/Latias
Turn 0
Veteran Sibyl sent out Articuno and Zapdos
I sent out Salamence and Hitmonlee
100%100%
vs.
100%100%
Intimidate activated before Pressure, so I know I'm facing Zapdos2. This is not a great MU - I might not want to stay in with Salamence and instead want to go for a Sylveon sweep with Tailwind, as Salamence can't hurt Zapdos and does badly against Articuno. I opt to set up Tailwind while Hitmonlee Fakes Out Articuno.
In retrospect, this was clearly a misplay with the information I had. Here are the calcs on Articuno2:
252 SpA Aerilate Mega Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Articuno: 49-58 (24.8 - 29.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Hitmonlee Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Articuno: 97-115 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
Fake Out + Hyper Voice into Hyper Voice + Close Combat on Turn 2 would knock out both Articuno sets all of the time. Using Tailwind was not really useful. If Zapdos1 was a possibility, Tailwind could be justified Mence's and Hitmonlee's T2 movement can't be guaranteed against it; but since I knew it was Zapdos2, that was not a risk. It's hard to say if this misplay contributed to the loss, as it ended up working out thanks to luck.
Turn 1
Hitmonlee used Fake Out on Articuno
Salamence used Tailwind
Zapdos used Heat Wave on Salamence and Hitmonlee
Articuno flinched
100%90%
vs.
90%80%
Heat Wave isn't great with Hitmonlee losing its Sash. I go for Hyper Voice + CC on Articuno, which might get the KO - but if it misses it, I'm prepared for a Sylveon sweep.
Turn 2
Salamence used Hyper Voice on Articuno and Zapdos
Hitmonlee used Close Combat on Articuno - Articuno KO
Zapdos used Charge Beam on Salamence
Veteran Sibyl sent out Latias
85%100%
vs.
65%80%
Articuno ends up being KO'd, and things are looking up with Tailwind set and a Knock Off victim showing up. Latias can also get KO'd by Sylveon if it survives. I go for Hyper Voice + Knock Off to KO Latias if it is Set2, and remove its hax item and damage both Pokémon if it is Set1.
If I had gone for Hyper Voice on Turn 1, Articuno would be KO'd 100% of the time. But because of favorable damage rolls and Articuno being Set1, that didn't end up mattering.
Turn 3
Hitmonlee used Knock Off on Latias - Latias's Lax Incense was knocked off!
Salamence used Hyper Voice on Latias and Zapdos
Latias used Mist Ball on Hitmonlee - Hitmonlee KO
Zapdos used Charge Beam on Salamence - Zapdos's Special Attack rose!
I sent out Sylveon
70%15%
vs.
40%100%
Latias KOs Hitmonlee, making way for Sylveon - I'd also have been okay with Mence getting KO'd to make way for Sylveon, as Tailwind is still up and running. With Sylveon out, Hyper Voice is going to grab some KOs.
Turn 4
Salamence used Protect
Sylveon used Hyper Voice on Latias and Zapdos - Latias KO, Zapdos miss
Zapdos used Roost
I's Tailwind ran out!
Veteran Sibyl sent out Heatran
100%100%
vs.
40%100%
I'm not sure why I went for Protect on this turn - maybe I was afraid of Charge Beam KOing Salamence? This was a misplay, as Latias's hax item was removed and Hyper Voice would KO it, which in turn would allow Sylveon's Hyper Voice to hit Zapdos for 100% damage rather than 75% spread damage. Howewer, with Sylveon Hyper Voice missing thanks to BrightPowder, this didn't end up mattering and Zapdos heals to full with Roost.
If Hyper Voice (47.2% - 55.3%) hit on this turn, Zapdos would be at ~70% HP after Roost, which would allow me to focus fire it with Flamethrower + Hyper Voice and possibly KO it. Howewer, as Tailwind is out, there is also a chance that Zapdos would Roost before Sylveon moves on that turn. Using Hyper Voice on Mega Salamence and having Sylveon's 100% Hyper Voice hit Zapdos was my best chance to win the battle, and I didn't get it with both the Protect misplay and the miss.
With Heatran, the Veteran Pokémon Sylveon does worst against, on the field, I'm now in a really bad position. My only answer to Heatran is Scizor's Superpower, but with Zapdos on the field and at full HP, I will need Tailwind for it to be able to move before Zapdos usesd Heat Wave. I go for Tailwind and switch Sylveon for Scizor, expecting Zapdos to finish off Salamence with +1 Charge Beam and Heatran to use Flash Cannon to allow me to KO Heatran on the next turn and have Sylveon face Zapdos 1v1. If Flash Cannon hits Sylveon, I will also lose as Sylveon needs to be healthy to have a chance against Zapdos so the switch is the only play I can make at this point.
Turn 5
Switch out Sylveon for Scizor
Salamence used Tailwind
Zapdos used Heat Wave on Salamence and Scizor - Scizor KO
Heatran used Flash Cannon on Salamence - Salamence KO
I sent out Sylveon
100%100%
vs.
100%
Aaaaand Zapdos uses Heat Wave, blocking my last chance to make a winning play. So long, streak!
Zapdos behaved pretty erratically in this battle as a whole. Heat Wave on Turn 1, followed by several Charge Beams, followed by Heat Wave on a resistant Salamence and neutral Sylveon when I switch in Scizor.
When I played this battle, I thought +1 Charge Beam was going to KO Salamence and thought it was the most likely move, but when I did the calcs for this write-up...
+1 0 SpA Zapdos Charge Beam vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Mega Salamence: 57-67 (33.3 - 39.1%)
Salamence had exactly 68 hit points left. This makes the Protect on the previous turn a total misplay, and explains why Zap could have gone for Heat Wave - though its behaviour can be pretty random either way, and any of its three non-Roost moves would have been possible.
Turn 6
Sylveon used Hyper Voice on Heatran and Zapdos
Zapdos used Charge Beam on Sylveon
Heatran used Flash Cannon on Sylveon
50%90%
vs.
20%
Turn 7
Sylveon used Hyper Voice on Heatran and Zapdos - Zapdos KO
Heatran used Flash Cannon on Sylveon - Sylveon KO
80%
vs.
(nothing)
Veteran Sibyl wins!
Next up...Druddigon? ;)
Hello everyone. It has been a while since I have posted, but I have checked in every so often and enjoyed seeing the continued success of different people.
Anyway my streak is at 1600 and it has been hard to find time and motivation to get this far, so I imagine I will be sitting here for a little while. It is in triples, so sorry to add to the exhausting list of teams that have broken 1000. But it was fun regardless.
Battle video 1600: SCEW-WWWW-WW2B-PYST
Thanks for reading. Maybe someone who still has a current streak going will post soon to reignite some motivation in going to 2000.
Good luck to all.
Anyway my streak is at 1600 and it has been hard to find time and motivation to get this far, so I imagine I will be sitting here for a little while. It is in triples, so sorry to add to the exhausting list of teams that have broken 1000. But it was fun regardless.
Battle video 1600: SCEW-WWWW-WW2B-PYST
Greninja @ Focus Sash
Timid; EVs- 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Mat Block
Dark Pulse
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
No surprise here really. I went with the focus sash/dark pulse version after I tried to use a slightly different variation before. This just kills. Fears very few things first turn and is not OHKO’d. Dark pulse is awesome. I can only remember one instance of getting hit with thunderbolt (Jolteon I believe) and being paralyzed same turn as the only time he did not kill something. Other moves are coverage.
Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Calm; EVs- 244 HP/ 108 Def/ 100 SpA/ 56 SpD
IV: 31/31/31/28/26/31
Thunderbolt
Thunder Wave
HP- Ground
Taunt
Seeing the success of turskain, mercury, and dutch plumberjack, to name a few, I really wanted a center, lead electric. I also wanted to use taunt after the success I had before. Prankster Thundurus fit wonderfully. Not much invested in speed, but has decent bulk with EV spread. He basically just spams thunder wave and taunt all day, just crippling teams. HP- ground was not optimal choice, but I was happy(ish) with the IVs and did not want to soft reset any more for Ice. It has decent coverage but unfortunately against ground types he is rather useless. Also, cannot hit Gliscor or Landorus. I would’ve liked to add volt switch after seeing the utility of it, but could not replace anything on this set. But he also does not care about status (barring confusion which I usually switch out of; looking at you random teeter dance) and cannot be paralyzed back from synchronize, so that’s always fun to do. After watching my old videos to find ones to post, I think I will try switching in grass knot. I will really only miss out on 2HKOing Heatran, which is really not spectacular anyway.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Adamant; EVs- 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Dragon Dance
Return
Protect
Dragon Claw
I got excited to see 2 personal favorites get megas (Salamence and Metagross if you were wondering). Excuse the nickname, he is a transfer from original sapphire and I was big into Yugioh at the time and liked the name. Anyway, mence is just awesome at this. Being able to dragon dance behind mat block is fantastic as he can mega-evolve as well and destroy next turn. I was running double edge for the damage but realized it was not necessary and replaced with return. I wanted to run crunch over dragon claw for TR, but was unable to OHKO Lati twins and get KO’ed in return. Earthquake would also be nice but the utility of protect is invaluable.
Talonflame @ Choice Band
Adamant; EVs- 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Brave Bird
Flare Blitz
U-Turn
Tailwind
With prankster t-wave and my key sweeper dragon dancing, tailwind was not needed. I don’t even think I’ve used it this run. With choice band, Talonflame is here to hit hard and fast. And also die fast. I definitely try to bring her out with some back up in case I need to switch a move. Max speed to keep flare blitz and u-turn fast. Still a good choice due to gale wings brave bird having the coverage it does.
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Jolly; EVs- 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Dragon Claw
Iron Head
Earthquake
Protect
Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Brave; EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def
Wide guard
Sacred sword
Shadow sneak
King’s shield
I tried to run Heatran (among a few others) in the last spot for 20-30ish battles. I found it to be underwhelming for this team but I still wanted a steel type. Enter Aegislash. Still that nice steel typing and wide guard for support. I went with the physical version in order to use both sacred sword (for removing defense/evasion boosts) and shadow sneak for priority. Wide guard is pretty great in this format due to the enemy loving to use all those spread moves. Weakness policy really helps add power to shadow sneak. Brave nature, 0 Speed IV for those tricky TR users and to avoid getting hit in blade form.
So that’s the team. It definitely took inspiration from turskain and his success. Sorry to hear about the loss but nice to know the top spot is not a moving target anymore!
Timid; EVs- 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Mat Block
Dark Pulse
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
No surprise here really. I went with the focus sash/dark pulse version after I tried to use a slightly different variation before. This just kills. Fears very few things first turn and is not OHKO’d. Dark pulse is awesome. I can only remember one instance of getting hit with thunderbolt (Jolteon I believe) and being paralyzed same turn as the only time he did not kill something. Other moves are coverage.
Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Calm; EVs- 244 HP/ 108 Def/ 100 SpA/ 56 SpD
IV: 31/31/31/28/26/31
Thunderbolt
Thunder Wave
HP- Ground
Taunt
Seeing the success of turskain, mercury, and dutch plumberjack, to name a few, I really wanted a center, lead electric. I also wanted to use taunt after the success I had before. Prankster Thundurus fit wonderfully. Not much invested in speed, but has decent bulk with EV spread. He basically just spams thunder wave and taunt all day, just crippling teams. HP- ground was not optimal choice, but I was happy(ish) with the IVs and did not want to soft reset any more for Ice. It has decent coverage but unfortunately against ground types he is rather useless. Also, cannot hit Gliscor or Landorus. I would’ve liked to add volt switch after seeing the utility of it, but could not replace anything on this set. But he also does not care about status (barring confusion which I usually switch out of; looking at you random teeter dance) and cannot be paralyzed back from synchronize, so that’s always fun to do. After watching my old videos to find ones to post, I think I will try switching in grass knot. I will really only miss out on 2HKOing Heatran, which is really not spectacular anyway.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Adamant; EVs- 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Dragon Dance
Return
Protect
Dragon Claw
I got excited to see 2 personal favorites get megas (Salamence and Metagross if you were wondering). Excuse the nickname, he is a transfer from original sapphire and I was big into Yugioh at the time and liked the name. Anyway, mence is just awesome at this. Being able to dragon dance behind mat block is fantastic as he can mega-evolve as well and destroy next turn. I was running double edge for the damage but realized it was not necessary and replaced with return. I wanted to run crunch over dragon claw for TR, but was unable to OHKO Lati twins and get KO’ed in return. Earthquake would also be nice but the utility of protect is invaluable.
Speaking of Metagross, here are 2 fun videos of it trying to trick the mega stone away. I think this topic may have been discussed before on the board, but I cannot remember what the outcome was. I replayed the battles a few times and the move still fails even if I do not mega evolve. It will only try this once per battle though, so I guess the AI does not know what items I have. I think he was just jealous that I was using Salamence instead.
1550: BZ3G-WWWW-WW2A-T4WV
774: LG2G-WWWW-WW2B-XQM4
1550: BZ3G-WWWW-WW2A-T4WV
774: LG2G-WWWW-WW2B-XQM4
Talonflame @ Choice Band
Adamant; EVs- 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Brave Bird
Flare Blitz
U-Turn
Tailwind
With prankster t-wave and my key sweeper dragon dancing, tailwind was not needed. I don’t even think I’ve used it this run. With choice band, Talonflame is here to hit hard and fast. And also die fast. I definitely try to bring her out with some back up in case I need to switch a move. Max speed to keep flare blitz and u-turn fast. Still a good choice due to gale wings brave bird having the coverage it does.
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Jolly; EVs- 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Dragon Claw
Iron Head
Earthquake
Protect
My last 2 pokemon took multiple tries to bring the team together. I wanted a ground type and really tried to stay away from Garchomp. I brought in Mamoswine, Swampert, Landorus, even considered (mock battles) Nidoking and Krookodile before I finally tried chomp. He is too good not to use, which is why I guess he sees action on other top teams here. Anyway Dragon claw over outrage for consistency. Protect for utility, Earthquake for stab coverage and finally Iron head for additional coverage. Does good damage to fairies with the added bonus of flinch chance. (Shout out to someone here who actually tried iron head first but I have no idea how far back that was.) I considered using Lum berry, but he did not really see too much in the way of status not being the lead and Thundurus just throwing taunt at everyone. Focus sash was taken, and chomp likes the added damage (albeit not the added recoil).
Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Brave; EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def
Wide guard
Sacred sword
Shadow sneak
King’s shield
I tried to run Heatran (among a few others) in the last spot for 20-30ish battles. I found it to be underwhelming for this team but I still wanted a steel type. Enter Aegislash. Still that nice steel typing and wide guard for support. I went with the physical version in order to use both sacred sword (for removing defense/evasion boosts) and shadow sneak for priority. Wide guard is pretty great in this format due to the enemy loving to use all those spread moves. Weakness policy really helps add power to shadow sneak. Brave nature, 0 Speed IV for those tricky TR users and to avoid getting hit in blade form.
Here’s a good video of wide guard shutting down Chef Cobb and his blizzard spam. Pretty boring video as he literally spams blizzard and surf the entire battle while Greninja and thundurus kill everyone. Good times.
839: NMNW-WWWW-WW2A-T4CM
839: NMNW-WWWW-WW2A-T4CM
So that’s the team. It definitely took inspiration from turskain and his success. Sorry to hear about the loss but nice to know the top spot is not a moving target anymore!
Many threats are similar to what others have faced in triples as you can imagine.
Things faster than Greninja that can prevent mat block.
· Those pesky electric types, Jolteon, Manectric, Zebstrika, love to go after greninja. It depends on who else is on the team to determine what the appropriate action is for Salamence.
· Aerodactyl 2 & 3- Rock slide flinch can prevent mat block from keeping Salamence safe. Thundurus paralyzes for turn 2 in the event he does not flinch as well. Again, depends on who else is on the team to determine the right plays. Generally right side Aerodactyl is not a threat as the play is to protect (Salamence) and thunder wave. Intimidate helps keep Thundurus alive. Left side versus Greninja is to forgo mat block and go for the kill.
· Talonflame is special mention since he can carry gale wings and hit Greninja from anywhere.
· Fake out. Fake out users that cannot hit Greninja are not usually threats as mat block protects from serious damage. When mat block is down, that is when protect on Salamence can really be useful so next turn I can get that boost from mega-evolving.
Trick Room: No surprises here. Taunt really helps minimize this, but some battles when there are more than one that can and do use it or random trainers that use it unexpectedly. Taunt has a chance to be useless on Slowbro/Slowking and Aromatisse. In these cases the priority is generally to double attack them to prevent the TR from going up. Sometimes this is not possible due to their team mates. From my experience in this run, they will go for blizzard/ice beam when in reach of Salamence over TR which makes it a little easier to predict.
Tailwind- Moltres1 and Artucino 4 (both of which I have videos of further down). Since I do not run tailwind much anymore, this can be very troublesome to face certain (see; Lati@s, Regis, Terrakion) legendaries that now outspeed me.
Bright Powder/Lax Incense (Evasion): Missing sucks and can be a serious problem. Biggest threats include:
· Glaceon4- especially in hail paired with snow cloak. Wide guard helps keep blizzard at bay however.
· Regigigas1- Really only threatening when taunt misses and he begins to confuse everyone and use double team.
· Zapdos2- Depends on who it is partnered with. Combo of Aegislash and Garchomp neutralize it.
· Walrein4-Has the potential to be bad news.
· Lati@s: Lati@s 1 holds lax incense, so a missed hit equals OHKO on both Salamence and Garchomp from anywhere on the field thanks to dragon pulse. Sets 2 & 3 outspeed Salamence after mega-evolution in the event I am unable to dragon dance. Thundurus can cripple their speed barring any problems however and they cannot hit across the field.
Hail- 100% blizzard really scares the team. Wide guard works wonders, but does not stop those ice beams from hitting hard.
There are probably more I am missing, but this is a lot of typing and those are generally the “pay close attention to” threats.
Things faster than Greninja that can prevent mat block.
· Those pesky electric types, Jolteon, Manectric, Zebstrika, love to go after greninja. It depends on who else is on the team to determine what the appropriate action is for Salamence.
· Aerodactyl 2 & 3- Rock slide flinch can prevent mat block from keeping Salamence safe. Thundurus paralyzes for turn 2 in the event he does not flinch as well. Again, depends on who else is on the team to determine the right plays. Generally right side Aerodactyl is not a threat as the play is to protect (Salamence) and thunder wave. Intimidate helps keep Thundurus alive. Left side versus Greninja is to forgo mat block and go for the kill.
· Talonflame is special mention since he can carry gale wings and hit Greninja from anywhere.
· Fake out. Fake out users that cannot hit Greninja are not usually threats as mat block protects from serious damage. When mat block is down, that is when protect on Salamence can really be useful so next turn I can get that boost from mega-evolving.
Trick Room: No surprises here. Taunt really helps minimize this, but some battles when there are more than one that can and do use it or random trainers that use it unexpectedly. Taunt has a chance to be useless on Slowbro/Slowking and Aromatisse. In these cases the priority is generally to double attack them to prevent the TR from going up. Sometimes this is not possible due to their team mates. From my experience in this run, they will go for blizzard/ice beam when in reach of Salamence over TR which makes it a little easier to predict.
Tailwind- Moltres1 and Artucino 4 (both of which I have videos of further down). Since I do not run tailwind much anymore, this can be very troublesome to face certain (see; Lati@s, Regis, Terrakion) legendaries that now outspeed me.
Bright Powder/Lax Incense (Evasion): Missing sucks and can be a serious problem. Biggest threats include:
· Glaceon4- especially in hail paired with snow cloak. Wide guard helps keep blizzard at bay however.
· Regigigas1- Really only threatening when taunt misses and he begins to confuse everyone and use double team.
· Zapdos2- Depends on who it is partnered with. Combo of Aegislash and Garchomp neutralize it.
· Walrein4-Has the potential to be bad news.
· Lati@s: Lati@s 1 holds lax incense, so a missed hit equals OHKO on both Salamence and Garchomp from anywhere on the field thanks to dragon pulse. Sets 2 & 3 outspeed Salamence after mega-evolution in the event I am unable to dragon dance. Thundurus can cripple their speed barring any problems however and they cannot hit across the field.
Hail- 100% blizzard really scares the team. Wide guard works wonders, but does not stop those ice beams from hitting hard.
There are probably more I am missing, but this is a lot of typing and those are generally the “pay close attention to” threats.
1525: BZQG-WWWW-WW2A-T3VB
Scary lead trio. Turns out to be both Zapdos2 and Latios1. Greninja lands some clutch ice beams on Zapdos after double team boosts for a fairly easy win.
1446: TFJG-WWWW-WW2A-T43Z
Zoroark fooled me and both Greninja and mence are down turn 2. Ends with Claydol exploding as the final mon for whatever reason.
1418: 3CAG-WWWW-WW2A-T44U
Moltres1 uses tailwind. Sturdy Regirock explodes first with custap berry, which actually works out in my favor. Should’ve looked at the movesets to predict this.
1361: CCDW-WWWW-WW2B-32VJ
Couple of good predictions. Blissey plays games until Aegislash shows up.
1329: 9PGW-WWWW-WW2A-T46W
Articuno uses tailwind. Opponent Thundurus taunts me first. Clutch wide guard.
1139: WK5W-WWWW-WW2B-33WN
Opponents Greninja outspeeds mine to OHKO mence early. Also struggled with Seismitoad. Not my best battle but the team comes out on top.
Scary lead trio. Turns out to be both Zapdos2 and Latios1. Greninja lands some clutch ice beams on Zapdos after double team boosts for a fairly easy win.
1446: TFJG-WWWW-WW2A-T43Z
Zoroark fooled me and both Greninja and mence are down turn 2. Ends with Claydol exploding as the final mon for whatever reason.
1418: 3CAG-WWWW-WW2A-T44U
Moltres1 uses tailwind. Sturdy Regirock explodes first with custap berry, which actually works out in my favor. Should’ve looked at the movesets to predict this.
1361: CCDW-WWWW-WW2B-32VJ
Couple of good predictions. Blissey plays games until Aegislash shows up.
1329: 9PGW-WWWW-WW2A-T46W
Articuno uses tailwind. Opponent Thundurus taunts me first. Clutch wide guard.
1139: WK5W-WWWW-WW2B-33WN
Opponents Greninja outspeeds mine to OHKO mence early. Also struggled with Seismitoad. Not my best battle but the team comes out on top.
Thanks for reading. Maybe someone who still has a current streak going will post soon to reignite some motivation in going to 2000.
Good luck to all.
Do you think you can remove the front page link to my 440 streak? It is linked already in another post and it’s just adding excess content to the front page. Thanks.
It is rather upsetting to me that even when I take a team from this thread, I still can't get to 50 wins, let alone 1000. How do you people do it?! I mean, I'm not a bad battler. Even though I don't ladder much, I tend to win fairly often against random challengers, on both cart and Showdown. And most of the time when I lose, it is due to my team composition rather than hax.
Can depend on a lot of things. Are you familiar with how the team you're copying works exactly? Are you familiar with the sets the AI is using? Are you (reasonably) familiar with the AI's playstyle? (the maison is nothing at all like an OU battle against a fellow human...) Are you taking unnecessary risks? (e.g. setting up too much or not switching out when confused or whatever..) There's also the fact that most of our teams aren't really built with the sets that don't appear after battle 40 in mind because there's really no point in accounting for them if you're not gonna face them anymore after the very beginning... while that shouldn't be much of an issue if you're copying a goodstuff team, people using a Durant team generally use a standard fast MegaKhan/Dragonite team to storm through the first 40 battles because those teams have a very specific what-to-do-against-lead-X list and it's not feasible to account for all the dumb monstrosities you'll only face in those battles and not afterwards.
It could also have to do with you using a team that has already proven what it's capable of... I have only ever used my own teams so I can't comment too much on it, but since the team 'should' clear 50 easily I can very well imagine there being a feeling like 'why does this team all of a sudden suck when I use it?' (as opposed to 'zomg 400 already and I still haven't jinxed myself :o ' or being motivated to figure out how to improve the team in the event of an early loss)
I'm sure that if you were to post a couple replays people would be glad to point out more specific things you might be doing wrong :]
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There was a MegaKang, Greninja, Scarf Chomp team someone was using that I copied. PuP Kang, U-Turn Ninja, and Chomp. But I don't really know the sets the AI uses, though I do know their strats usually
I couldn't win 1000 battles with that team either, because it doesn't seem particularly good. U-Turn on Greninja is pretty pointless, as then you're just bringing in something else to take a bunch of damage (unless you're switching Garchomp in on an Electric move). Donphan4 and Walrein4 can eat you for breakfast with just a little luck. Losing one Pokemon (particularly Mega Kangaskhan) opens up MASSIVE vulnerabilities, but because it's the lead, any OHKO user means you either switch (and potentially lose a Pokemon for nothing) or stay in and risk putting yourself at a pretty big disadvantage.
Try Kangliscune, it's much better. You still have a few risks because of Mega Mom in the lead (particularly against Sheer Cold users), but Gliscor's Ground immunity makes it beat Donphan4 handily, and Suicune+Gliscor will win many more battles on their own than Greninja+Scarfchomp will.
Without knowing the AI sets, this really doesn't mean anything. You can't say you know what the AI will do if you don't know what they can do. A Forretress3, for one example, is entirely offensively oriented and holds an Iron Ball. A Forretress4 has only Explosion plus entry hazards, and will either detonate itself immediately or give you multiple "free" turns. It also has no attack investment, while Forry3 has 252+ investment, which changes what's safe to keep in against it and what isn't; however, it also holds a Custap Berry and WILL opt to explode at low health unless you use priority to prevent it.
People do reach 50 without looking those stats up or running calcs, but it's much more difficult than doing research, and I can say with confidence that they have a snowball's chance in hell of reaching 100 wins by merely winging it.
The moveset and stat sheets are helpful, but the trainer lists are just as important, because they often let you know what you're up against before they've sent out a pokemon (the exceptions are trainers that use multiple sets of one species, like Veterans.)