Battle Spot Community Create-A-Team: Triples [TEAM COMPLETE, IN TESTING STAGE]

[EnGarde]

EnGarde

I'm certain Eevee of both genders were made available in two Dream World areas as well; I even grabbed a few female Eevee from there. Serebii and Bulbapedia have them listed in 2 different Dream World areas.

Since I have such Eevee in my possession, if you guys want I can breed up some Eevee with whatever egg moves/tutor moves you guys want, should you want to include it in the team.

Yeah, sorry, eevee were available in the dream world as well. If you've got a female HA eevee in gen 5, being able to breed one with egg moves might be useful.

Also I've been watching Mikado's battles too! Ty for finding somebody who has their battle history set to private. I really dig his team's solid switch synergy and ability to perform well out of trick room for quite a while. Definitely a good watch for anyone looking to see some higher-level Triples play.

Hey! I found another person with public videos! This person is iesutade. I found this person when they were #3, but it looks like they've gone down to #17. I've only watched 1 vid, and it was really one sided in iesutade's favor. Details under the hide.

Hide

iesutade vs kaorou: NNYW-WWWW-WWW9-WXK8

iesutade's team:

Kangaskhan

Rotom-W
157 hp
-snatch (faster than fake out) - worked: caught latias’s tailwind
-thunderbolt

Aegislash @ life orb
167 hp
-shadow ball (aggressive and fast: outsped and OHKO’d mirror aegislash in shield form; didn’t king’s shield at all)
(outsped and KO’d sylveon)
-flash cannon

Landorus-T

Togekiss @ sitrus berry
190 p
-air slash

Hydreigon

Vs.

Aegislash

Jolteon @ life orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
-thunderbolt

Sylveon

Blastoise @ mega
-fake out

Meinshao @ Focus Sash
-fake out
-stone edge

Latias
-tailwind

Edited because quote fail, lol.

EDIT2: I'm beginning to see a pattern of life orb aegislash, which is surprising, because I've always used lefties. Interesting. :)

 

[Campaign]

With all the sub mega kangs running around, I'm seeing a lot more Aegislash variants; Namely Toxi-stall Aegislash and Hyper-offensive Aegislash, rather than the traditional Mixed attacker or SD/attacker.

 

[cayZ5]

Doing a little more research, the current #11 triples player, iesutade, has quite a few videos available.
4W4G-WWWW-WWW9-W6E3
NNYW-WWWW-WWW9-WXK8
TMHW-WWWW-WWW9-WXH3


He/She runs

Mega Kangaskhan 181 HP
-Fake Out
-Drain Punch

Rotom-W @ leftovers 157HP physically defensive
-Snatch
-Thunderbolt

Togekiss 190HP
-Follow Me
-Air Slash

Aegislash 167HP
-Shadow Ball
-Flash Cannon

Landorus-T
-Rock slide

Rotom was always the middle lead, and used snatch on turn one of all the battles I watched. It worked and stole latias' tailwind, leading to a victory. Aegislash was always to the left of rotom. Everything else seemed pretty much like good stuffs. I am also working on breeding a bold meowstic M if it becomes needed.

EDIT: How did I not notice EnGarde's post about the same person...sorry about that.

 

[Age of Kings]

Gonna post in here before bed - if anyone needs a Careful Tyrogue, please let me know.

Karxrida - thanks for jumping in! We love getting new people. However, I don't think Bisharp is a great choice because it doesn't offer anything that our team needs at the moment, namely it's a little slow and shares many of Heatran's weaknesses that we are trying to cover for. Please don't get discouraged though, we like input!

BattleVideos: Nice catch guys, I'm going to have to take a look at those videos as well. Good job dissecting everything.

I find LO Aegi interesting because its selling points are bulk and support. I guess it's fairly strong single target but...wat.

Snatch is something else we need to watch out for. Also, I feel somewhat shaky about Kanga because even at -1 Return 2HKOs iirc. Rocky Helmet on something is nice, if we don't find some other defensive behemoth then I think we should just throw it on Hitmontop.

For now, I am still partial to Heatran for spread moves. ethan06, can you explain your EV spread? What is 76 Speed for?

Regarding Heatran's moveset, Ancientpower vs Flash Cannon is the issue at hand. I do like Ancientpower largely because Heatran is supposed to check Charizard-Y and Talonflame and running Flash Cannon doesn't help us stop them.

252+ SpA Heatran Ancient Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 136-164 (88.3 - 106.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Heatran Ancient Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 204-244 (110.2 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

However, not everyone agrees that it's worth giving up nuke STAB to check two things. I totally understand that. Btw 252 HP Sylv: (252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 120-144 (59.4 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) and now i'm going to sleep zzzzz

Sorry for the lack of activity, busy week x_x

 

[ethan06]

For now, I am still partial to Heatran for spread moves. ethan06, can you explain your EV spread? What is 76 Speed for?

tbh I ripped the spread from the Doubles set on the beta Pokédex so I claim no responsibility for it. Here is the pertinent section:

Set Details
A Modest nature and 200 Speed EVs allow Heatran to outspeed neutral-natured maximum 252 Speed Adamant Bisharp and below, also covering threats such as Rotom-W and Cresselia. Timid can also be used with the same spread in order to outpace Jolly Breloom and below, at the cost of some power. 252 Special Attack EVs make Heatran as powerful as possible, and the rest of the EVs are put into HP for bulk. An alternate spread of 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe with a Modest nature can work as well for maximum power, some more bulk, and the ability to still outspeed Rotom-W and Cresselia, if it is not important for Heatran to outspeed invested base 70 Speed Pokemon. A Shuca Berry is used to guard against Earthquakes from the likes of Landorus-T and Garchomp, helping Heatran effectively lure them in for the surprise OHKO with Hidden Power Ice. It also guards Heatran from surprise Ground-type coverage moves such as Hidden Power Ground. A Sitrus Berry can be used for recovery. Charcoal could also work to boost the power of Heatran's Fire-type attacks. Finally, Life Orb can be used to boost the power of Heatran's attacks significantly at the cost of some health.

also goodnight lol

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

If you are still looking for vids I have them enabled on my PGL page, which is in my signature. I was top 100 in Triples for Seasons 2 and 3. I can probably even give you an overview of what I was thinking if you want me to analyze a certain turn in one of my replays. I think I posted a few vids in the Triples thread, but I am on my phone atm.

 

[Karxrida]

One of the Latis could be a partner to Heatran, as they resist most of each other's weaknesses.

 

[Age of Kings]

I see....I like the 76 Speed because I truthfully can't think of much else. I checked on Nugget Bridge and winning Heatrans also have fairly simple spreads.

If there are no objections, this is what it looks like so far:

Heatran
Modest
180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Speed

Heat Wave
Earth Power
Protect
????

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Heatran: 132-156 (69.8 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Heatran: 146-174 (77.2 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Heatran: 122-146 (64.5 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Thing with Shuca Berry is that yes, we survive things, but just barely. I like Air Balloon myself largely because the opponent is going to have to spend a turn popping it (remember we have Fake Out and Wide Guard for spread moves). We can also try a more offense-oriented item or Chople Berry?

Last slot is still a toss-up between Flash Cannon or Ancientpower. I posted my own thoughts above but would like more input from other parties.

Karxrida Latis are an interesting choice. We actually are looking for Dragons to use especially since we need speed and something that does well against Rain....they will be on the list to consider.

 

[ethan06]

On Flash Cannon vs. Ancient Power, I definitely like Ancient Power more as Heat Wave should be Heatran's main STAB. The most common Wide Guarders take decent damage from Ancient Power/Earth Power anyway, besides Hitmontop which Heatran can't beat anyway (Leftovers renders even Flash Cannon a 3HKO and Close Combat is a thing).

252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 152-180 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- 74.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Ancient Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aerodactyl: 182-216 (60.2 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Flash Cannon is an OHKO but Focus Sash renders that null and void)
252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mienshao: 162-191 (59.7 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hmm... Flash Cannon does hit harder than even Heat Wave on most neutral things, but I don't see the point in even using Heatran if it means we're unable to get past Zard and Talonflame. I vote Ancient Power. Just my 2c~

 

[Age of Kings]

I know EnGarde had an objection....Ancientpower can fail the OHKO on Char-Y but 88% minimum is good enough for me for a solid check. Focus Blast is only used 13.1% of the time, or 11.1 out of 84.8 Charizards (shitstatistics.jpg) and does not OHKO our Heatran (252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 152-180 (80.4 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery). We also beat Talonflame unless it's running some ridiculous SpD which is highly unlikely.

However, I did dig up a couple of points in Flash Cannon's favor. Flash Cannon does give us a significant edge over Sylv,
252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 120-144 (59.4 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Heatran Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 54-64 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- 31.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

and random Rock types,
252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 102-122 (49.2 - 58.9%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 164-194 (98.7 - 116.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

However, we should be mindful of the "When Defeated" statistics too. The 12 Pokemon that fainted Heatran the most were other Heatran (lol), Blastoise, Kanga, Landorus, Garchomp, Hitmontop, Gastrodon, Sylv (???), Terrakion, and Aegi.

The top 12 Pokemon Heatran defeated were Heatran, Hitmontop, Talonflame, Sylv, Mawile, Kanga, Amoonguss, Aegi, Scizor, and Bisharp.

Obviously, these two lists have overlap and that's due to sheer usage numbers, but we can postulate that Flash Cannon helps vs Sylv and Terrakion (whom we do outrun with Tailwind).

However, Flash Cannon only helps with "shaky" matchups (besides Sylv). Terrakion and to a lesser extent Garchomp and Landorus kick Heatran's ass and it should certainly not be our go-to to hurt these things. 10/12 of the list of mons Heatran defeated list fall to Heat Wave + Earth Power and 6 resist Steel. While Charizard doesn't appear on the top defeated list, see my wonky statistics above that show that only a small portion have a reasonable chance against Heatran. That's some more points in Ancientpower's favor.

I'm really torn over this, I think they both have good cases. If I were to pick though, I would use Ancientpower because it shores up Heatran's positive matchups versus giving it a fighting chance in shittier ones. Sylveon is the outlier but we should consider other ways to beat it and we can outplay Specs.

 

[EnGarde]

ethan06 Age of Kings Yeah, I see the logic of running ancient power over flash cannon. Better to have a pokemon that can do its job well than one that struggles because it doesn't have the right moves to be successful.

Small (kinda nit-picky; sorry, lol) bit of clarification on mega 'zard y, though: we should calc and plan for instances where this is a guaranteed 2HKO (not % to OHKO):

Hide

The 88% minimum is only on frail sweeper 'Zard Ys. Isn't Modest 100 HP 'zard y a more likely possibility, especially in the higher tiers? With this spread, ancient power is no longer a % to OHKO:

252+ SpA Heatran Ancient Power vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 136-164 (81.9 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

However, it *is* still a 2HKO, though. This just means that we need to play carefully with 'zard weak teammates until we can clear it off the field. Or, we could use life orb on heatran:

252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Ancient Power vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 177-213 (106.6 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Since we've flipped over to a new page, I'll post an updated list of our current proposed team:

Support Hitmontop @ Rocky Helmet/Eject Button/Sitrus Berry
Careful
Intimidate
252 HP / 180 SpD / 76 Speed
- Close Combat
- Feint
- Wide Guard
- Fake Out

Bulky Attacker Heatran @ Air Balloon/Life Orb/Chople Berry/Sitrus Berry
Modest
Flash Fire
180 HP/252 Sp. Atk/76 Spd
-Heat Wave
-Earth Power
-Ancient Power
-Protect

Support Talonflame @ Sitrus berry/focus sash/sky plate
(Asking again: any complaints against standard sweeper EV spread?)
Adamant
Gale Wings
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
- Brave Bird / Acrobatics (if holding a consumable item)
- Tailwind
- Will-o-Wisp
- Quick Guard

Some Dragon Type (potenially one of the latis). Removing mega ampharos because I think that struggles without trick room support.

Some Fairy Type that isn't Mega Gardevoir (potentially sylveon)

Some Mega Evolution or other pokemon

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Jumping in here as I've been playing a bit of Showdown Battle Spot Triples lately (which I'm sure is far worse in terms of skill than the actual Battle Spot, but still).

For either the Dragon or Fairy, some serious weight should probably be given to packing another Intimidate Pokemon (so, either Salamence or Mawile). Though Mawile, like Ampharos, benefits hugely from Trick Room and precludes the use of another Mega. If the goal is to up the team's average speed a bit, it's probably not the way to go. The only real worry with Intimidate is Bisharp, to which Heatran is a pretty hard counter.

Take this with a super-huge grain of salt though. If Salamence doesn't match the rest of the team's setup, I'm not going to argue its worth. I also don't know how viable it is in Triples; it seems like its usefulness would be significantly reduced from its Doubles role.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Showdown's Battle Spot Triples is legit. I've fought against someone who was the best in a country during Season 3 on Showdown recently.

Salamence feels like it gets outclassed by the Latis and Scarfchomp in Triples imo. I'd rather use Gyarados due to better bulk. (I'm kinda waiting to see what ORAS brings before I really get back into Triples.)

 

[Age of Kings]

We got some attention on the Smogon Facebook page! They gave away some free Careful Tyrogues.

Judging from how the discussion has gone, we've decided on our second teammate:

Heatran
Flash Fire
Modest
180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spd

Heat Wave
Earth Power
Ancient Power
Protect

- Heat Wave is primary STAB, a good spread move that hits many Pokemon in the metagame for SE.
- Earth Power provides coverage against other Heatran and Fire types that
- Ancientpower chosen over Flash Cannon because Flash Cannon's main target is Sylveon (and Fairies) and the team needs a Talonflame and Charizard-Y check more. Flash Cannon covers shakier targets vs Ancientpower shoring up positive ones.
- 76 Speed outruns min speed Rotom-W and Cress, as well as beating speed creep from other base ~70s and Heatran.

 

[Age of Kings]

I'm double posting but I'm a mod and I'm special <3 (this is going to be the last time I do this because I couldn't concentrate on the other discussion topics to edit my post)

On the topic of simulators: it doesn't reach the same audience as those who play on the in-game ladder. You can use it to get your feet wet but I wouldn't use it as a thoroughly reliable testing ground.

We've decided on Heatran, so the next order of business is Talonflame, who offers some much needed speed and support. I think we've decided on a set already but again I'm not entirely certain on EVs or nature tbh.

Regarding Dragons, imo a special-based one is probably best due to Outrage's reduced efficacy in triples wheres Dragon Pulse covers the entire field and Draco Meteor is a still-available nuke. Garchomp is popular for spread moves too, but I don't think any others that are physical should be considered. Latis have also been suggested; some of the things they offer are secondary Tailwind, status, nuke, and some much-needed speed.

We should also be prepared for Fairies since we're not using Heatran for that checking purpose. Keep something in mind. Mawile offers something in the way of a check to Fairies while also having Intimidate. We also don't have a Mega. I'd like to present Kanga or Blastoise on the table as other options.

 

[EnGarde]

We got some attention on the Smogon Facebook page! They gave away some free Careful Tyrogues.

Just saw this. Pretty sweet! Hopefully we'll get more contributors thanks to this.

I'm currently re-EVing my hitmontop to match the one here, and I'll be offering clones of it to those who ask on the SQ/SA thread and in my trade thread to people who want to try the team out. If anyone here wants more information, please click on one of the two links and look at my posts there! Now that we've finalized our heatran spread, I'll RNG one and offer clones of that as well (probably will be ready by the end of the week).

I've been in favor of talonflame for a while, and I've already posted an EV spread that I'm happy with in my previous post above (Adamant 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed). I'm very happy to hear other spreads, as the logic behind the one currently proposed is that talonflame is a lot like support!gengar, where investing in defense does not give us any more functional survivability over the standard sweeper spread. I would love to be proven wrong, though. :)

To further discussion, and to keep type synergy in mind, I'll post 2 screenshots of our type weaknesses and resistances considering our current chosen teammates:

Hitmontop + Heatran:

Hitmontop + Heatran + Talonflame:

With just hitmontop and heatran, heatran covers hitmontop's weaknesses pretty well, but mega blastoise is going to be a problem, particularly if it carries water pulse or aura sphere (a likely possibility). I think, when we consider our next teammate (one of the dragons, perhaps?), we should be looking closely for a check to mega blastoise.

 

[Campaign]

As mentioned above in post #37, you'll benefit from an additional intimidate with mega-mawile who also provides a lot of coverage and a fairy/dragon killer with iron head and play rough respectively. Even more important since you won't be running flash cannon on heatran. His two biggest threats are fire, which heatran can switch into (eating WoW then going for a +1 heat wave or just protecting) followed by EQ, which heatran can switch into w/air balloon or talonflame can switch into.

A dragon/flying would be solid if you want to run kang as your mega - Allowing him to hit multiple enemies with EQ while you avoid with flyers. Bulky fake out kang is pretty good at the moment, maybe with sub/ice punch. However this does leave you with a rock slide weakness, which is fairly prevalent in triples. I also agree that when looking for a dragon stab, outrage isn't the best. Maybe dragonite with dragon claw/weakness policy or something, though without Lum you'll get destroyed by WoW, even after a DD.

As for other fairies, hyper-voice/pixel sylveon is scary as shit and togekiss brings tons of utility and bulk (both of which you currently lack). In addition to klefki you've also got other taunters to fill that lead/control role such as Meowstic, who I personally find to be an enormous pain in the ass in triples or Sableye who has some decient bulk + recover, he does, however, get totally destroyed by azumarill or basically any moonblast user.

There's always the option of storm drain Gastrodon as a Sp tank / toxic spammer.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Piggybacking off the post above, I'm going to throw in a huge vote for Meowstic making this team somewhere. Safeguard and Swagger are both remarkable utilities, whether Swagger is aimed across the field or at your own Pokemon. It also has the option of packing screens (either both or one the team needs more), Yawn and Taunt.

I'd vote for Meowstic just on the fact that Smeargle is a thing, honestly. It is a third support Pokemon, but its role is sufficiently different from Talonflame and Hitmontop, I think, who both have an offensive presence as well. It's anecdotal, but I've been running all three on a team in Showdown with some success.

 

[ethan06]

We've decided on Heatran, so the next order of business is Talonflame, who offers some much needed speed and support. I think we've decided on a set already but again I'm not entirely certain on EVs or nature tbh.

Regarding Dragons, imo a special-based one is probably best due to Outrage's reduced efficacy in triples wheres Dragon Pulse covers the entire field and Draco Meteor is a still-available nuke. Garchomp is popular for spread moves too, but I don't think any others that are physical should be considered. Latis have also been suggested; some of the things they offer are secondary Tailwind, status, nuke, and some much-needed speed.

We should also be prepared for Fairies since we're not using Heatran for that checking purpose. Keep something in mind. Mawile offers something in the way of a check to Fairies while also having Intimidate. We also don't have a Mega. I'd like to present Kanga or Blastoise on the table as other options.

To be honest I think it would be best if the mega was one of the last things we picked - it's one of the only things that we can't go back on once we've decided on it.

As for Fairies, I feel like a bulky check would be the best way to go about it, as the team appears to be heading in a bulky offense kind of direction. With this in mind, I'm starting to like Amoonguss a lot more as a utility mon that can sleep things with Spore, redirect most moves with Sleep Powder and solidly check common Pokémon like Hitmontop, Aegislash and Sylveon, along with most other Fairies.

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Modest
Regenerator
240 HP/212 Sp. Atk/44 Sp. Def/12 Def
-Spore
-Rage Powder
-Sludge Bomb
-Protect/Giga Drain/Foul Play

212+ SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sylveon: 102-120 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 240 HP / 44 SpD Amoonguss: 62-73 (28.3 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO

EV spread yields these calcs vs. Sylveon. I added the 12 Def on the end as well in order to avoid the OHKO from MMawile's Fire Fang, which would allow it to survive any of Mawile's attack and Spore it in return. According to the usage stats, 20.2% of all Mawile run Fire Fang... I think that's a big enough number that I, for one, would be worried. If we decide it's unnecessary then my original spread was 252 HP/212 Sp. Atk/44 Sp. Def. I'll add more on this later~

 

[cayZ5]

Regarding Dragons, Latios looks like the best option for reasons others have given. It's most used item is life orb(40.7%) followed by Specs(23.8%). Although, its an easy set to see through and
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 162-192 (103.8 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
which would explain why it isn't in the top 12. Also, the Meowstic I have been breeding is done. Still needs training though. Just FYI to everyone in case we decide to use one.

 

[Pyritie]

Regarding Dragons, Latios looks like the best option for reasons others have given. It's most used item is life orb(40.7%) followed by Specs(23.8%). Although, its an easy set to see through and
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 162-192 (103.8 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
which would explain why it isn't in the top 12. Also, the Meowstic I have been breeding is done. Still needs training though. Just FYI to everyone in case we decide to use one.

I've got a calm one all trained up in case anyone wants to clone it.

 

[ck49]

Regarding Dragons, Latios looks like the best option for reasons others have given. It's most used item is life orb(40.7%) followed by Specs(23.8%). Although, its an easy set to see through and
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 162-192 (103.8 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
which would explain why it isn't in the top 12. Also, the Meowstic I have been breeding is done. Still needs training though. Just FYI to everyone in case we decide to use one.

The best possible set you can have if you want to survive that is probably 108 HP/100 Def/44 SpA/252 Spe, which takes (85.2 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO. That being said, you can't KO back and it might not be worth investing that much in bulk - if you do, an Assault vest might be worth it to shore up the special bulk which was disregarded. You can't KO it without a good amount of Special Attack regardless.

If you really want to beat Kangaskhan with Latios, you could run reflect as your 4th move, although Latias probably fulfils that purpose better. Reflect may have some utility in triples given that it helps all 3 team members (I think, I've never played triples before).

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

To be honest I have never seen a Lati do much other than be mostly fodder (and kill the occasional Garchomp). They just have so many common weaknesses and the power creep is pretty ridiculous. I'd go with Scarfchomp any day of the week.

If you really wanna screw with people I would suggest Smeargle or a Snatch user. Smeargle gets Dark Void, which Wide Guard does not block. Snatch gets priority level 4 and can steal Quick/Wide Guard or Tailwind. A number of teams require those to function, so it is worth mentioning. Or you could run Feint.

A combo that absolutely scares me is Helping Hand Politoed with a Kingdra.

 

[EnGarde]

A dragon/flying would be solid if you want to run kang as your mega - Allowing him to hit multiple enemies with EQ while you avoid with flyers. Bulky fake out kang is pretty good at the moment, maybe with sub/ice punch.

Mega Kangaskhan works best as a single target assassin, as spread moves (earthquake, rock slide) do not get the 2nd parental bond hit when striking multiple targets. The most common moves for mega kangaskhan are Return (or double-edge), power-up punch, sucker punch, and fake out. I prefer return because I don't like the recoil of double-edge. Other moves that can be swapped in are substitute (to prevent burns), crunch (so ghosts can't wall us), and protect.

Piggybacking off the post above, I'm going to throw in a huge vote for Meowstic making this team somewhere. Safeguard and Swagger are both remarkable utilities, whether Swagger is aimed across the field or at your own Pokemon. It also has the option of packing screens (either both or one the team needs more), Yawn and Taunt.

I'd vote for Meowstic just on the fact that Smeargle is a thing, honestly. It is a third support Pokemon, but its role is sufficiently different from Talonflame and Hitmontop, I think, who both have an offensive presence as well. It's anecdotal, but I've been running all three on a team in Showdown with some success.

I'm really hesitant to add more support pokemon to the team. I think that as we add more non-offensive pokemon, we create a team that'll be more difficult for less skilled members to use effectively. If this is to be an ambassador team to help introduce more people to competitive play on Battle Spot triples, having a team that's more consistent and easier to run and understand for members of all skill levels is very desirable. In general, what I think the team really needs at this point is more offensive options to complement heatran.

Having said that, I'm not voting no outright to meowstic. I've used meowstic a lot in doubles, and I know how useful it can be. I'm just saying, if we choose to use meowstic, then we should reevaluate our current support options--specifically talonflame--into a more offensive set, like a choice band or life orb bird nuke.

To be honest I think it would be best if the mega was one of the last things we picked - it's one of the only things that we can't go back on once we've decided on it.

In many ways, I agree, since the megas we're most heavily considering--mega blastoise, mega kangaskhan, and mega mawile--all look like they can each function without a lot of dedicated support, or with the support we've already got lined up. I think we should continue to discuss them, but as you said, not make a final decision until the end. :)

As for Fairies, I feel like a bulky check would be the best way to go about it, as the team appears to be heading in a bulky offense kind of direction. With this in mind, I'm starting to like Amoonguss a lot more as a utility mon that can sleep things with Spore, redirect most moves with Sleep Powder and solidly check common Pokémon like Hitmontop, Aegislash and Sylveon, along with most other Fairies.

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Modest
Regenerator
240 HP/212 Sp. Atk/44 Sp. Def/12 Def
-Spore
-Rage Powder
-Sludge Bomb
-Protect/Giga Drain/Foul Play

212+ SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sylveon: 102-120 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 240 HP / 44 SpD Amoonguss: 62-73 (28.3 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO

EV spread yields these calcs vs. Sylveon. I added the 12 Def on the end as well in order to avoid the OHKO from MMawile's Fire Fang, which would allow it to survive any of Mawile's attack and Spore it in return. According to the usage stats, 20.2% of all Mawile run Fire Fang... I think that's a big enough number that I, for one, would be worried. If we decide it's unnecessary then my original spread was 252 HP/212 Sp. Atk/44 Sp. Def. I'll add more on this later~

We'd definitely take our opponents by surprise with this spread! I don't think I've ever heard of offensive amoonguss before. I worry that, because this spread barely guarantees us the 2HKO on sylveon (50.4 - 59.4%) with an SE hit, that we might find ourselves frustrated by the lack of damage output.

For example,

Without foul play, aegislash completely walls amoonguss. With foul play, aegislash only goes down if we can nail the blade form, which requires good prediction skills, and will cost us the ability to run protect:

0- Atk Amoonguss Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 32-38 (19.1 - 22.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- Atk Amoonguss Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 176-208 (105.3 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

If we consider hitmontop, we'll see our hits are all 3HKOs or 4HKOs, meaning our target's teammates have plenty of time to curb-stomp amoonguss:

212+ SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hitmontop: 57-67 (36.3 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

212+ SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 180+ SpD Hitmontop: 45-54 (28.6 - 34.3%) -- 1.8% chance to 3HKO

212+ SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hitmontop: 42-51 (26.7 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Personally, I'm still more interested in looking at stronger offensive options over keeping amoonguss, though, like meowstic, I'm still willing to consider him for a support role if we choose to reevaluate our talonflame for an offensive role.

 

[Age of Kings]

Sorry for the late response everyone, been busy with the viability rankings thread. I have not forgetten about this at all!

EnGarde I agree with your sentiment that Blastoise is a problem.

I'd vote for Meowstic just on the fact that Smeargle is a thing, honestly. It is a third support Pokemon, but its role is sufficiently different from Talonflame and Hitmontop, I think, who both have an offensive presence as well. It's anecdotal, but I've been running all three on a team in Showdown with some success.

My main objection to Meowstic is that our support mons also provide offensive+defensive synergy for the team in addition to support, whereas I am unsure what Meowstic helps us with some of the problems that have been brought up. While Meowstic is an excellent counterlead, the stuff it does check are not what we have problems with.

Regarding Dragons, Latios looks like the best option for reasons others have given. It's most used item is life orb(40.7%) followed by Specs(23.8%). Although, its an easy set to see through and
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 162-192 (103.8 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
which would explain why it isn't in the top 12. Also, the Meowstic I have been breeding is done. Still needs training though. Just FYI to everyone in case we decide to use one.

Kanga would definitely limit its movements, but if we end up running Talonflame then it can protect Latios with Quick Guard. The smart Kanga user will of course anticipate that and use Return, which OHKOs with even Jolly:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 168-199 (107.6 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 153-181 (98 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Whereas 4 HP Kanga survives LO Draco Meteor:
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 144-172 (79.5 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Would rather not run Draco Meteor Specs in Triples since we only have one mon in the back.

Kanga is not the only priority threat:
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 118-141 (75.6 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sylv without Specs:
252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 134-162 (85.8 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

I take these calcs as making me very wary of running LO. Hmmm.

ethan06 Amoonguss was in the OP and your post made me consider why we can't run both Hitmontop and Amoonguss. However, I am not a fan of offensive Amoonguss at all because its staying power is always its best selling point and if we're running Amoonguss, it is best to abuse Spore and Anger Powder to the fullest.

We could eschew a Dragon since it's becoming clear that they're not helping us with our Rain problem or with the rest of the team. I will instead propose Thundurus-I.

- It provides the team with much-needed speed.
- Priority Taunt. If Hitmontop dies, then Wide Guard still won't be a horrible issue. Taunt is still awesome either way.
- Timid Thundurus outspeeds Adamant Talonflame by one point. Therefore, it's almost our all-purpose check because our Taunt will go first and we can OHKO with Thunderbolt because it can hurt us with Flare Blitz: 252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 109-130 (70.3 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 174-205 (93.5 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO - however we don't have to run LO and Water Spout is rendered useless even if we just do 80%+. Non-LO does 72 - 84.9% where Water Spout has a laughable 42 BP.
- Scarfers kick its ass but I feel that the way the team is going, we are well prepared for the common Scarfers.
- Not having to waste our Mega stone to check a few common threats.

The main con is that Thundurus is fragile and is Kanga food but I feel that it fits well with the team. What do people think about Thundurus?