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The recent interview with Game Xplain and the acknowledgement that MKhan was everywhere months ago really gives me hope for the developers to expand on competitive BSpot specifically and taking the focus off the more commonly seen threats from XY. Not to say that we won't have a successor to MKhan but things are definitely feeling a bit less centralised at least for now. One concern I have though is the power creep from the new Megas, and how the meta will likely be a lot more focused around them as a win condition - this is definitely more prominent in BSpot with less mons.
You say that, but these are the people who designed m-salamence and thought it was balanced, and gave a pokemon 150 SpA but were surprised when people used it as a special attacker. I'm not exactly very confident in GF's ability to balance the game.
I really hope that rumor about "-ate abilities giving a 30% boost was a bug" is true.
Yeah this thing is totally gonna be sweet for rain teams in every metagame. Its got good bulk, 150 base attack, and JUST enough speed to outspeed some good stuff in the rain. I'm particulary interested in using Mega Swampert in Rotations, since unlike singles, you don't even need to waste a switch in turn, you just need to mega evolve to get the speed boost next turn! Also helps that you could run Protect so that Mega Swampert wont get hit till its swift swim is activated. I imagine that Mega Swampert will be fairly effective in doubles and triples as well. I'm sorta interested in runing wide guard, I remember MythTrainerInfinity trying that on regular Swampert. How did that end up working man? Just one major note: Ludicolo is going to be a total douchbag to Mega Swampert in doubles and triples. I'm almost wondering if I should be crazy and pair Mega Swampert up with Talonflame. Talonflame does have that Earthquake immunity at least!
With thw whole KB only ORAS league I guess it's time to rebreed my entire team. Hopefully the non banned legendaries will be easy to soft reset for... I'm not holding my breath though.
With all these new meags, thoughts on how the old megas will be used? Less or more? I mean some of these new megas I can see being awesome in doubles, but the other megas will be lesser used. Obviously pokemon like M kanga will still be a thing, but what about pokemon like Mega Houndoom?
But seriously, I don't expect any of the megas usage to change too drastically. I'd imagine that things that were popular pre-ORAS(Kan, mawile, zard, etc.) will still be popular and still really good and the lesser used megas will still be seen rarely, now you'll just see them a bit less since there's more mons to choose from in their slot.
But at the start of ORAS, you should probably expect to see a lot more ORAS megas than XY megas just cause most people will want to try new things out.
I agree with NOVED, the same Megas will remain relevant and the less used ones will be less used, although I think that offensive Charizard X will significantly decline. (Bulky sets remain relevant, better use of it anyways.) We will probably see less Kanga and Mawile but simply due to the increased pool of Megas to choose from.
....I think Venusaur is in a particularly precarious situation, Mence shits on it but it does pretty well against most of the rest of the new additions (besides Beedrill, RIP priority though). So you have one new thing that kills it and does well against everything else. Be mindful of team preview!
....I think Venusaur is in a particularly precarious situation, Mence shits on it but it does pretty well against most of the rest of the new additions (besides Beedrill, RIP priority though). So you have one new thing that kills it and does well against everything else. Be mindful of team preview!
Beedrill's defense is so awful that even a Bold MegaSaur's Return looks scary.
0- Atk Mega Venusaur Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 69-82 (48.9 - 58.1%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
Not that people put Return on Mega Venusaur, lol. EQ does marginally less in Singles so I guess there's that?
Mega Salamence obviously decimates it, Mega Pidgeot has No Guard Hurricane coming from 135 Sp. Atk, Mega Slowbro /can/ run super effective STAB Psychic/Psyshock, but it honestly fears Venusaur more than Venusaur fears Slowbro unless it has a CM boost or two. Mega Metagross walls it to hell, and Tough Claws Zen Headbutt is more than enough to stomp it. Mega Gallade's Psycho Cut/Zen Headbutt are a tad weaker, but still very strong and it does get Swords Dance. Mega Sableye... trolls it with Magic Bounce, but at the end of the day its two Megas sitting there flinging poo at each other and really accomplishing nothing.
Lopunny, Altaria, Glalie, Sharpedo, Steelix, Sceptile, Swampy, and Audino don't seem to be able to do much to Venusaur though.
And don't mistake my tone as berating - Mega Venusaur has slain many foes for me, and rarely fails. I mostly do Maison / Internationals / VGC though, not Battle Spot. xD
Might fix that though, hence why I'm looking around. :P
Beedrill's defense is really bad (Base 40!) I can see a big threat being azumarill. Yes I know that it can outspeed and hit with poison jab, but what about aqua jet!?
It got the stat boosts in all the right places and I can see a great revival of his Bulk Up Drain Punch set with oodles of coverage now that move tutors return and even support options available to tailor him to your team's needs. I personally think he is going to be one to watch out for!
Beedrill's defense is really bad (Base 40!) I can see a big threat being azumarill. Yes I know that it can outspeed and hit with poison jab, but what about aqua jet!?
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Beedrill: 127-150 (90.7 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
only banded sets get the OHKO and if you really wanted to you could EV to survive it and still have a lot of EVs left for your attack. & the common assvest/bd sets do 71% max. 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Beedrill: 127-150 (84.1 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
172 Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 232-276 (112 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
There are tons of other mons with priority that threaten beedrill though(talonflame, bisharp, cb dragonite, etc.) & azu isn't one to worry about too much imo. It doesn't want to get ohko'd and probably won't stay in 90% of the time unless your low in HP.
I think Beedrill's main problem is that flying type attacks are still going to be hugely popular with Mega Salamence and Mega Pidgeot to a far lesser extent. Talonflame isn't going anywhere either. I'm glad he got a mega, but unless you're using him for late game clean up you are going to need a tiny bit of bulk to be viable in my eyes. I can't see him being higher than a C in viability rankings, but we shall see.
Has anyone been playing around with the new megas on the simulator? The thing that scares me the most is not Mega Salamence, but Mega Metagross. Tough claws boosted attacks coming off a 145 attack, 110 speed, has great typing and bulk, and access to priority? Plus my BP Espeon fails to 2HKO it unless I run full special attack! Luckily he doesn't have access to any form of recovery.
Also has anyone tried Gunk Shot on Greninja? Apparently there's a ton of talk about how good it is.
Has anyone been playing around with the new megas on the simulator? The thing that scares me the most is not Mega Salamence, but Mega Metagross. Tough claws boosted attacks coming off a 145 attack, 110 speed, has great typing and bulk, and access to priority? Plus my BP Espeon fails to 2HKO it unless I run full special attack! Luckily he doesn't have access to any form of recovery.
Also has anyone tried Gunk Shot on Greninja? Apparently there's a ton of talk about how good it is.
mega metagross is hard walled by mega steelix or mega slowbro(if metagross doesnt have grass knot) and is easily killed by either.
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Steelix: 45-54 (12.7 - 15.2%) -- possible 7HKO
252+ Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Steelix: 102-120 (28.8 - 33.8%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO
4 Atk Mega Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 186-218 (51 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 54-65 (13.7 - 16.4%) -- possible 7HKO
252+ Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 62-73 (15.7 - 18.5%) -- possible 6HKO
4 SpA Mega Slowbro Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 182-216 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gunk Shot Greninja is hyped because Fairy types can no longer switch in and tank it, particularly Azumarill and Sylveon:
0 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 203-242 (98 - 116.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 242-283 (119.8 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I'm still not terribly hyped because what are you going to give up for it? HP Fire for Ferrothorn? Psyshock for Venusaur? (probably the best choice?) Gunk Shot itself isn't terribly reliable; it has the same accuracy as Stone Edge and it's called "Stone Miss" for a reason. Stone Edge is significantly less popular in Battle Spot than it is in certain other metas because there will always be that one time where a miss costs you a game.
One also must be mindful of the indirect overall nerf to Fairies so if anything their usage will decline. Mega Mence, unlike Garchomp, has no reason to run Dragon STAB besides Draco Meteor so even the Fairies I mentioned that can take a Return or whatever are still going to take a chunk of damage switching in. There's Metagross as you mentioned, Beedrill, and basically nothing to compensate. Running Hasty guarantees that Talonflame can OHKO with Sharp Beak if you want a revenge. Those are just preliminary thoughts, there are probably other calcs that make an already frail Pokemon even frailer or sacrificing coverage.
Gunk Shot Greninja is hyped because Fairy types can no longer switch in and tank it, particularly Azumarill and Sylveon:
0 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 203-242 (98 - 116.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 242-283 (119.8 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I'm still not terribly hyped because what are you going to give up for it? HP Fire for Ferrothorn? Psyshock for Venusaur? (probably the best choice?) Gunk Shot itself isn't terribly reliable; it has the same accuracy as Stone Edge and it's called "Stone Miss" for a reason. Stone Edge is significantly less popular in Battle Spot than it is in certain other metas because there will always be that one time where a miss costs you a game.
One also must be mindful of the indirect overall nerf to Fairies so if anything their usage will decline. Mega Mence, unlike Garchomp, has no reason to run Dragon STAB besides Draco Meteor so even the Fairies I mentioned that can take a Return or whatever are still going to take a chunk of damage switching in. There's Metagross as you mentioned, Beedrill, and basically nothing to compensate. Running Hasty guarantees that Talonflame can OHKO with Sharp Beak if you want a revenge. Those are just preliminary thoughts, there are probably other calcs that make an already frail Pokemon even frailer or sacrificing coverage.
Most greninjas aren't running extrasensory anyway. I think Gunk/Hydro/Icebeam/Low Kick(or dark pulse or HP fire or extrasensory) is pretty great coverage, you can't beat everything but it still beats a lot. You'll just have to decide what you think is most important for your team. If fairies aren't an issue for you, might as well not run gunk shot.
And greninja doesn't generally stay in on anything that outspeeds it or anything it doesn't KO, so I can't imagine you'd be losing much with a naive nature.
mega metagross is hard walled by mega steelix or mega slowbro(if metagross doesnt have grass knot) and is easily killed by either.
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Steelix: 45-54 (12.7 - 15.2%) -- possible 7HKO
252+ Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Steelix: 102-120 (28.8 - 33.8%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO
4 Atk Mega Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 186-218 (51 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 54-65 (13.7 - 16.4%) -- possible 7HKO
252+ Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 62-73 (15.7 - 18.5%) -- possible 6HKO
4 SpA Mega Slowbro Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 182-216 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I guess we will have to see, but I think mega Steelix will get about as much use as Mega Aggron got in XY (i.e not very much). Mega Slowbro intrigues me. I want to try a CroBro set, but I have a feeling that taunt and prankster Pokemon are going to be very common, so I'd like the meta game to settle a bit before giving it a go.
With ORAS out in 10 days, let's revive this thread.
I'll start off with something simple: Here are some important moves some Pokemon lost with the pentagon rule. Since we know that the ORAS tutors are pretty much the same as BW2, there isn't a whole lot lost. However, there are some somewhat significant losses.
Kangaskhan
- Seismic Toss
Suicune
- Sheer Cold
- Extreme Speed
Heatran
- Eruption
Clefable
- Softboiled
Entei
- Extreme Speed
Glalie
- Double Edge
Altaria
- Double Edge
- Body Slam
Hitmontop
- Sucker Punch
Dusclops/Dusknoir
- Helping Hand
Also String Shot if you're into that kind of thing (it got buffed in gen 6 and now drops Speed by 2 stages). LMK if there are more notable missing moves.
The biggest loss here appears to be Suicune, as Sheer Cold is a huge reason why it's feared and also enables it to run an Assault Vest set. Entei losing ES is also fairly big but not as metagame impacting. Kangaskhan losing Seismic Toss takes away some of its stallbreaking potential (also not a bad way to handle being burned), but Kangashan is versatile enough to not really care.
With ORAS out in 10 days, let's revive this thread.
I'll start off with something simple: Here are some important moves some Pokemon lost with the pentagon rule. Since we know that the ORAS tutors are pretty much the same as BW2, there isn't a whole lot lost. However, there are some somewhat significant losses.
Kangaskhan
- Seismic Toss
Suicune
- Sheer Cold
- Extreme Speed
Heatran
- Eruption
Clefable
- Softboiled
Entei
- Extreme Speed
Glalie
- Double Edge
Altaria
- Double Edge
- Body Slam
Hitmontop
- Sucker Punch
Dusclops/Dusknoir
- Helping Hand
Also String Shot if you're into that kind of thing (it got buffed in gen 6 and now drops Speed by 2 stages). LMK if there are more notable missing moves.
The biggest loss here appears to be Suicune, as Sheer Cold is a huge reason why it's feared and also enables it to run an Assault Vest set. Entei losing ES is also fairly big but not as metagame impacting. Kangaskhan losing Seismic Toss takes away some of its stallbreaking potential (also not a bad way to handle being burned), but Kangashan is versatile enough to not really care.
That's kind of a big hit for Heatran. It's still very viable without Eruption of course but it was really threatening with it in doubles/triples under TR/tailwind.
Clefable losing Softboiled sounds like a big deal for minimize toxic stalling sets.
Personally I'm more interested in the non-pentagoned mons that will be unavailable for the ORAS league (Cresselia, Genies, etc.). Although it was said somewhere that XY+ORAS will give us all the of the legendaries, only the cover legends have been shown (Ho-oh, Dialga, etc.). I'd like it if they remained unavailable since they would be such a pain to soft reset but I'm sure that there will be someone who disagrees with my opinion.
That's kind of a big hit for Heatran. It's still very viable without Eruption of course but it was really threatening with it in doubles/triples under TR/tailwind.
Personally I'm more interested in the non-pentagoned mons that will be unavailable for the ORAS league (Cresselia, Genies, etc.). Although it was said somewhere that XY+ORAS will give us all the of the legendaries, only the cover legends have been shown (Ho-oh, Dialga, etc.). I'd like it if they remained unavailable since they would be such a pain to soft reset but I'm sure that there will be someone who disagrees with my opinion.
It has been stated a few times that between X/Y and ORAS, all (non event) legendaries will be capturable.
The demo dump listed several notable legendary battle music filenames - Cobalion, Suicune, Heatran, Uxie (along with the already known cover legends and Deoxys), which implies that they will be catchable ingame (note that Cresselia never had a legendary theme and the genies share a theme with the Swords of Justice).
In any case, soft resetting for these Pokemon should not be difficult as they are likely to come with the triple flawless IV package. If nothing else, I'm sure there will be people with good ones that are willing to clone.
It has been stated a few times that between X/Y and ORAS, all (non event) legendaries will be capturable.
The demo dump listed several notable legendary battle music files - Cobalion, Suicune, Heatran, Uxie (along with the already known cover legends and Deoxys), which implies that they will be catchable ingame (note that Cresselia never had a legendary theme and the genies share a theme with the Swords of Justice).
In any case, soft resetting for these Pokemon should not be difficult as they are likely to come with the triple flawless IV package. If nothing else, I'm sure there will be people with good ones that are willing to clone.
