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Battle Tree Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Eisenherz
- Start date
Okay, Platinum Battle Tower Doubles Team #3
Focus Sash, Naive, Blaze
120 Atk, 196 SpA, 192 Spe
Fake Out, Overheat, Close Combat, Hidden Power Ice
Charti Berry, Modest, Serene Grace
244 HP, 12 Def, 200 SpA, 12 Def, 40 Spe
Tailwind, Air Slash, Thunder Wave, Aura Sphere
Life Orb, Timid, Levitate
4 Def, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Dragon Pulse, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Energy Ball
Lum Berry, Adamant, Technician
116 HP, 212 Atk, 4 Def, 12 Spe, 164 Spe
Bullet Punch, X-Scissor, Brick Break, Sword Dance
I think this team is slightly less reliable than the previous two because both lead Pokemon rely on <100 accuracy. Nevertheless, it still made it through the 21-game gauntlet.
This is my streak so far, ignore the RECORD section.
Focus Sash, Naive, Blaze
120 Atk, 196 SpA, 192 Spe
Fake Out, Overheat, Close Combat, Hidden Power Ice
Charti Berry, Modest, Serene Grace
244 HP, 12 Def, 200 SpA, 12 Def, 40 Spe
Tailwind, Air Slash, Thunder Wave, Aura Sphere
Life Orb, Timid, Levitate
4 Def, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Dragon Pulse, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Energy Ball
Lum Berry, Adamant, Technician
116 HP, 212 Atk, 4 Def, 12 Spe, 164 Spe
Bullet Punch, X-Scissor, Brick Break, Sword Dance
I think this team is slightly less reliable than the previous two because both lead Pokemon rely on <100 accuracy. Nevertheless, it still made it through the 21-game gauntlet.
This is my streak so far, ignore the RECORD section.
hey I know I probably am late to the party on this one but I am looking for on help on building a team for single battles so I can finally get the mega stones and have a stronger charizard the tea, I have been using has been Xurikitree, Tapu fini, and Mega tyranitar anyone have any ideas of a good team to get started on the battle tree scene
First off, welcome to Smogon!
If you just want to beat Red, the best solution is probably to get a team from Smuckem's QR Repository (link is in the OP). If you want to actually make your own team for a large streak or are unable to use QR teams for whatever reason, I'd suggest waiting for USUM to come out, so that you can see what the move tutors are before committing to 3 pokes. But this probably means little to you, so I'll tell you what's bad with your current team.
Xurkitree is a terrible lead for several reasons: It is either too slow to function properly as a lead, or you have to use Choice Scarf and thus lose its ability to set up. Additionally, your team has no real switch-ins to Ground moves, so if a fast Ground lead appears you pretty much lose a mon.
Tapu Fini is under-explored in Singles, mainly because Suicune is a much better Status absorber and bulky Water setup mon. In my opinion the best way to use it is as support, to allow its teammates to set up on a Status-using lead. The sets you can use are pretty varied, it can run anything from sub CM sweeper (if your leftovers are still available) to Specs/Scarf. Honestly before picking which set to use you should choose good teammates (including a good lead).
Mega Tyranitar suffers from the same problem that every other physical Rock-type has in the tree: Its only accurate Rock STAB is 50 power Smack Down. The lack of accurate physical Rock moves means that Rock is a near useless offensive type in Tree Singles. Tyranitar also shares weaknesses with the rest of your team, including Grass and Ground. The sand it brings also doesn't help its teammates - in fact, I'd say Sand is a detriment for your team, you don't want to make Excadrill beat you any more than it already does.
Bottom line, replace Xurkitree and Tyranitar immediately. Your lead should either be fast or else have Dragon Dance, and whatever you replace Tyranitar with should be able to exploit Misty Terrain so that it can set up without needing to fear burns/paralysis/freeze. I'd suggest looking at the leaderboard to see what people use - if enough people are using it, there must be a reason to use it.
Salamence+Aegislash+Chansey is an easy-to-use team that can help rack up the BP. The only problem is that Salamence prefers Return, which doesn't have full happiness in QR teams.
I still strongly disagree with the definition of "Aegimence+chansey" teams to be "easy to use". Not only they aren't, but the comp is also often very boring to use due to the requirement to switchstall and know when to setup and when to not.
For a novice, they aren't, and are likely better off with a "pick 3 ubers and roll through things" to get a feel of tree and get Normal 20 wins, and Super 20-30 wins and easy BPs
For a novice, they aren't, and are likely better off with a "pick 3 ubers and roll through things" to get a feel of tree and get Normal 20 wins, and Super 20-30 wins and easy BPs
Perhaps I'm not as much as a noob as I thought, lol. I had trouble when SM came out with the 3 ubers strategy, even in Normals. Pre-made teams with the lookup spreadsheet helped me, well, to get things done.
Let's say the simple fact you understand/understood the basics of swapping to PP stall or into resisted hits to setup already puts you a large amount of leagues ahead of the average person who comes asking for basic advice on the post.
We've had plenty of situations of people trying to use Aegimence cores because they were recommended, only to actually lose to Garchomp-1 and complain about AI cheats.
We've had plenty of situations of people trying to use Aegimence cores because they were recommended, only to actually lose to Garchomp-1 and complain about AI cheats.
Streak still ongoing, now using Josh C. 's Garchomp, which has Sand Veil and Iron Head instead of Poison Jab. Same EV / item, have already got a tad of value from having the Iron Head, no sizeable difference from ability due to having always 1shot stuff before they could fight back whenever Sandstorm was up either ways.
Managed to breed a the HP Ice Charizard but it needs still to hit 100 for hypertrain (it doesn't have 31 defense and speed), and I'm still debating myself if it's worth updating it over Dragon Pulse. Notably because it lacks the KO potential on Turtonator while essentially equal damaging or outdamaging Dragon Pulse against most dragons that arent Latis or Haxorus/Drampa. (Though, things that Dpulse 2hkos are also 2hkod by HP Ice as far as my calculations went)
yea the items I was using originally were like said tyranitar mega stone, red card on Xurkitree, and left overs on Tapu Fini while she also had aqua ring
cause I bred my charizard he currently has flare blitz, dragon claw, aerial ace, and dragon dance
his EV's are 252 Atk, 252 Sped, and I believe 4-6 HP
his EV's are 252 Atk, 252 Sped, and I believe 4-6 HP
Reporting a streak of 143 wins in Super Multi (with AI partner).
Video of loss: B9JG-WWWW-WWW9-FLAU
More people need to play multi+AI, it can be fun if you manage to scout a good partner and you only need to do half the work!
Video of loss: B9JG-WWWW-WWW9-FLAU
Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Modest
Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 Def, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Psychic
Moonblast
Thunderbolt
Hidden Power (Fire)
The same Lele as before, still sets up psychic terrain, still kills stuff.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Jolly
Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Double-Edge
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Offensive Megamence, Double-Edge is mainSPAM STAB, Dragon Claw is secondary STAB to hit other dragons and rotoms, EQ is for all the other Flying resists.
Modest
Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 Def, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Psychic
Moonblast
Thunderbolt
Hidden Power (Fire)
The same Lele as before, still sets up psychic terrain, still kills stuff.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Jolly
Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Double-Edge
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Offensive Megamence, Double-Edge is main
Aether Foundation Heidi
Metagross-4 @ Metagrossite
Jolly
Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Zen Headbutt
Meteor Mash
Brick Break
Bullet Punch
Mega Metagross is one of the better Tree sets and benefits from Psychic Terrain, but the lack of accuracy hurts (Psychic Fangs tutor in USUM please).
Bruxish-4 @ Expert Belt
Adamant
Wonder Skin
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk
Psychic Fangs
Ice Fang
Aqua Jet
Crunch
I wanted to scout Colress with Mega Metagross and Porygon2, but despite facing him many times in singles/doubles, the closest I came was Mega Metagross and Alolan Muk-2, which did OK (106 wins in super multi), but struggled with Ground types.
This is clearly neither Colress nor Porygon2, but was another Mega Metagross lead, and featured a backup that could also take advantage of Psychic Terrain without doubling up on too many weaknesses with Metagross, at the expense of being crap (highest base stat is 105 Atk) and having the wrong ability.
Metagross-4 @ Metagrossite
Jolly
Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Zen Headbutt
Meteor Mash
Brick Break
Bullet Punch
Mega Metagross is one of the better Tree sets and benefits from Psychic Terrain, but the lack of accuracy hurts (Psychic Fangs tutor in USUM please).
Bruxish-4 @ Expert Belt
Adamant
Wonder Skin
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk
Psychic Fangs
Ice Fang
Aqua Jet
Crunch
I wanted to scout Colress with Mega Metagross and Porygon2, but despite facing him many times in singles/doubles, the closest I came was Mega Metagross and Alolan Muk-2, which did OK (106 wins in super multi), but struggled with Ground types.
This is clearly neither Colress nor Porygon2, but was another Mega Metagross lead, and featured a backup that could also take advantage of Psychic Terrain without doubling up on too many weaknesses with Metagross, at the expense of being crap (highest base stat is 105 Atk) and having the wrong ability.
Exeggutor(2) and Gigalith(?) leads, no sand stream which is nice, fearing Gigalith-3 I target Gigalith with Psychic and the AI does the same with Meteor Mash, taking out the rock monster before it can even reveal a set. The fat little palm tree that normally wastes a turn on Z-Grassy Terrain instead uses Bloom Doom to OHKO Tapu Lele.
Turn 2 I send out Salamence while the opponent sends out Gyarados, they engage in a little staring contest and suddenly everyone is at -1 Atk. At -1 I can't OHKO any Gyarados but Exeggutor is still around and can do a lot of damage with Psychic, so I OHKO it with Double-Edge while Gyarados does the worst thing it can and mega-evolves, Metagross sends out an ineffective Zen Headbutt and Gyarados Dances like the Dragon it will never be.
Turn 3 features Mamoswine(3) revealing itself as the last opponent, Gyarados KOing Salamence with Stone Edge, Metagross doing ~49% to Gyarados with Brick Break, and a clearly disappointed Mamoswine using Avalanche on Metagross for little damage.
Turn 4 and Gyarados Dances again, Metagross hits it with another Brick Break, leaving it with a sliver of health, and Mamoswine reveals itself to be Chaotic Evil and uses Hail for no reason, killing Gyarados at the end of the turn.
Turn 5 Missgross Misses (was it the 90% acc? the Lax Incense? possibly Snow Cloak? the world may never know.) and Mamoswine KOs Meta with EQ as Psychic Terrain ends.
Turn 6 and Heidi sends out the mighty BRUXISH! Now, Bruxish is pretty bad, but avoids being OHKOed by EQ and has a (small) chance to 2HKO with Aqua Jet! Victory is within reach, and all it requires is for 2 attacks to hit through Lax Incense and a possible Snow Cloak and get high damage rolls/crits! Missgross could be avenged by an ugly triggerfish! Bruxish uses Aqua Jet...and it hits! The damage is a bit low but there's still hope!
"Mamoswine used Fissure"
...wait what
"It's a one-hit KO!"
...no seriously, what?
All the hopes and dreams of Bruxish to make a name for itself and show that even a gen 7 gimmicky shitmon can be useful, ended by sheer dumb luck.
This seems like a fitting end to a silly team in the most luck based tree format, and just goes to show that it doesn't matter if you're an S-rank Mega or some forgettable 475 BST with the wrong ability, at the end of the day dumb shit like Mamoswine-3 will still hax you to death in a heartbeat.
Turn 2 I send out Salamence while the opponent sends out Gyarados, they engage in a little staring contest and suddenly everyone is at -1 Atk. At -1 I can't OHKO any Gyarados but Exeggutor is still around and can do a lot of damage with Psychic, so I OHKO it with Double-Edge while Gyarados does the worst thing it can and mega-evolves, Metagross sends out an ineffective Zen Headbutt and Gyarados Dances like the Dragon it will never be.
Turn 3 features Mamoswine(3) revealing itself as the last opponent, Gyarados KOing Salamence with Stone Edge, Metagross doing ~49% to Gyarados with Brick Break, and a clearly disappointed Mamoswine using Avalanche on Metagross for little damage.
Turn 4 and Gyarados Dances again, Metagross hits it with another Brick Break, leaving it with a sliver of health, and Mamoswine reveals itself to be Chaotic Evil and uses Hail for no reason, killing Gyarados at the end of the turn.
Turn 5 Missgross Misses (was it the 90% acc? the Lax Incense? possibly Snow Cloak? the world may never know.) and Mamoswine KOs Meta with EQ as Psychic Terrain ends.
Turn 6 and Heidi sends out the mighty BRUXISH! Now, Bruxish is pretty bad, but avoids being OHKOed by EQ and has a (small) chance to 2HKO with Aqua Jet! Victory is within reach, and all it requires is for 2 attacks to hit through Lax Incense and a possible Snow Cloak and get high damage rolls/crits! Missgross could be avenged by an ugly triggerfish! Bruxish uses Aqua Jet...and it hits! The damage is a bit low but there's still hope!
"Mamoswine used Fissure"
...wait what
"It's a one-hit KO!"
...no seriously, what?
All the hopes and dreams of Bruxish to make a name for itself and show that even a gen 7 gimmicky shitmon can be useful, ended by sheer dumb luck.
This seems like a fitting end to a silly team in the most luck based tree format, and just goes to show that it doesn't matter if you're an S-rank Mega or some forgettable 475 BST with the wrong ability, at the end of the day dumb shit like Mamoswine-3 will still hax you to death in a heartbeat.
To be honest, I consider Multi with AI being very fun in B-tree.
What it fails being fun at is the frame rate. It's UGLY and UGLY is a compliment for someone with a normal 3ds like me. I've got as far as 50 with Cynthia for the stamp, but the terrifyingly low frame rate is really hurting my will to commit :(
Exactly, you don't need a "feel" for things to get a long streak immediately if you can just read and do a damage calculation every once in a while if you're not absolutely positive of something. If you just want to indefinitely get streaks of 50-100, then throw together three things with BST > 570, use 100% accurate moves whenever possible, and try to make sure the other team members resist the types your lead is weak to.
There's nothing you can learn while playing these teams to get much higher than 100 even if you play perfectly, but you can definitely get through the first 40 or so without having to think much. And then if you want to get an even higher streak while still not having to think much, switch over to Doubles where there are exponentially more opportunities for the AI to screw up or fail to synergize each turn.
I agree. My best AI partner leads with Charizard-Y, I have time to take a nap after I pick my first move.
Exactly.
The main issue is that the simple fact one is checking sets database and doing calcs and stuff already puts it WAY ahead of the standard novice who asks for advice.
The standard novice who asks for advice never played any facility, expects Battle Tree to be just a easier version of PvP, clicks "supereffective" without thinking, and often runs things like inaccurate moves or uses Pokemon that would be obscenely good for PvP but mediocre or terrible for B-tree (Looking at you Lando-T)
Simply putting toghether 2 uber/OU legendary + a random busted mega like Metagross Salamence or Kangaskhan, and rolling through things, EXPECIALLY in singles, gives way more consistency to get pass the "weak" pre 50 sets that often even lack perfect IVs making them even slower/squishier.
How is Lando-T mediocre?
Things like this are why people are saying the refurbished battle factory is going to be singles only. People don't have a lot of faith in multis making it back, either.
Kinda pisses me off that trainers being present in battle had to be a thing, because the framerate was problematic enough without it, and evidently GF lacks the programming to implement it without crippling the system. (more bitching about triples ensues)
One at least can hope that the FPS will be definitely solved in Gen 8 (switch hardware being a tad more powerful than 3DS so even mediocre optimization shouldn't be a issue hopefully) and that we also get triples back while not having to give up Multis or trainers showing.
Lando-T on tree is definitely nowhere close to the beast it is for PvP. There's far stronger intimidators for singles with accurate stabs and strong setup moves (cough Salamence) and Ground/Flying is a terribly bad typing for B-tree doubles (omnipresence of Blizzard spam, Surf being also moderately common, combined with Earthquake killing your own partner) further hurt by the bad speed tier.
TLDR: 91 speed is terrible for tree, and the awful coverage + bad defensive typing doesn't help. It's a Poke you should run only if you REALLY need the role compression it provides.
Non impressive typing (4x weakness to Ice is a pretty big deal in a facility where every other Pokemon post Legend has Blizzard or Ice Beam coverage), bad coverage, mediocre speed tier, on top of mediocre stab combination.
Lando-T on tree is definitely nowhere close to the beast it is for PvP. There's far stronger intimidators for singles with accurate stabs and strong setup moves (cough Salamence) and Ground/Flying is a terribly bad typing for B-tree doubles (omnipresence of Blizzard spam, Surf being also moderately common, combined with Earthquake killing your own partner) further hurt by the bad speed tier.
TLDR: 91 speed is terrible for tree, and the awful coverage + bad defensive typing doesn't help. It's a Poke you should run only if you REALLY need the role compression it provides.
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I'm pretty sure they could have made the "Turn Battle Animations Off" turn off Weather and Terrain without breaking anything if they had thought of it, now that we can check whether they are active or not.
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Not to mention it makes it tougher to take a lot of Pokemon seriously. Every time I see a Wailord or Wishwashi barely bigger than the player character, I cringe. Pokémon Colosseum, XD, and PBR don’t get the credit they deserve. Here’s hoping Pokemon Switch falls more in line with them when it comes to models.
Updated through here. Love seeing streaks with all sorts of unusual Pokemon showing up, too! Great work, folks!
Done! Thanks a bunch for putting that together. And congrats on finding a way to make Gliscune work in the Tree! Here's hoping you'll make it to 1000!
If there aren't any overwhelming changes, a combined leaderboard with teams from USUM just marked differently makes sense. That worked great for ORAS. But if things change significantly, say completely new AI sets, then a separate list will probably be in order. And obviously, any new modes will require a new list too!
Done! Thanks a bunch for putting that together. And congrats on finding a way to make Gliscune work in the Tree! Here's hoping you'll make it to 1000!
If there aren't any overwhelming changes, a combined leaderboard with teams from USUM just marked differently makes sense. That worked great for ORAS. But if things change significantly, say completely new AI sets, then a separate list will probably be in order. And obviously, any new modes will require a new list too!
So I made a goofy team as a first attempt at Battle Tree Doubles, expecting to lose a few times around battle 20, but the third try took me to the 40s so I kept trying. I made it to 50 (which was my goal) on like my 5th attempt, but then lost at 52 wins. Oh well.
The team:
Nintales-A @ Light Clay
Timid
Snow Warning
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Dazzling Gleam
Aurora Veil
Nasty Plot
Icy Wind
Arcanine @ Electrium Z
Adamant
Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Wild Charge
Protect
Extremespeed
Flare Blitz
Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Timid
Steadfast/Adaptability
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Aura Sphere
Psychic
Flash Cannon
Nasty Plot
Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Adamant
Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Waterfall
Play Rough
Aqua Jet
Belly Drum
Ninetales and Arcanine were the lead, with Intimidate giving me the best chance to get off Aurora Veil. The only times I didn't attempt to open with Aurora Veil was if the opponent had their own weather setter, in which case Ninetales was swapped out and back in. Also served as speed control with Icy Wind, and occasionally had the room to Nasty Plot and function as a sweeper.
Arcanine was the other lead, with Intimidate being amazing support. Acted as a wallbreaker, as Flare Blitz and Gigavolt Havoc were amazing, and priority in Extremespeed was also great.
Mega Lucario was also picked because he was immune to Poison, which threatened both of my Fairies (Psychic was also used for Poisons but was rarely used). Nasty Plot wasn't used too often, because Adaptability STABs are plenty powerful, but Nasty Plot was used when needed.
Azumarill was my final choice, and provided a decent switch for Arcanine if he wasn't needed as a lead. Huge Power let it hit decently hard off the bat, but if I had the chance to get off a Belly Drum then even Aqua Jet was able to OHKO almost everything. Especially fun when the opponent set up rain after the Veil was set up.
I started the team as a joke, but it ended up working surprisingly well, and ended up serving the function I wanted it to. If I ever wanted to return to the team, I'd probably replace either Nasty Plot or Icy Wind on Ninetales with Blizzard, and replace Arcanine with an Intimidate Krookodile. Also, Calm Mind could potentially be better than Nasty Plot on Ninetales, but it worked out well enough as is.
I assume people are going to tell me I should have used physical Lucario but I don't like physical Lucario.
Now I need to decide if I'm going to try and get 50 wins in Multis or decide I've finished until USUM...
The team:
Nintales-A @ Light Clay
Timid
Snow Warning
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Dazzling Gleam
Aurora Veil
Nasty Plot
Icy Wind
Arcanine @ Electrium Z
Adamant
Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Wild Charge
Protect
Extremespeed
Flare Blitz
Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Timid
Steadfast/Adaptability
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Aura Sphere
Psychic
Flash Cannon
Nasty Plot
Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Adamant
Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Waterfall
Play Rough
Aqua Jet
Belly Drum
Ninetales and Arcanine were the lead, with Intimidate giving me the best chance to get off Aurora Veil. The only times I didn't attempt to open with Aurora Veil was if the opponent had their own weather setter, in which case Ninetales was swapped out and back in. Also served as speed control with Icy Wind, and occasionally had the room to Nasty Plot and function as a sweeper.
Arcanine was the other lead, with Intimidate being amazing support. Acted as a wallbreaker, as Flare Blitz and Gigavolt Havoc were amazing, and priority in Extremespeed was also great.
Mega Lucario was also picked because he was immune to Poison, which threatened both of my Fairies (Psychic was also used for Poisons but was rarely used). Nasty Plot wasn't used too often, because Adaptability STABs are plenty powerful, but Nasty Plot was used when needed.
Azumarill was my final choice, and provided a decent switch for Arcanine if he wasn't needed as a lead. Huge Power let it hit decently hard off the bat, but if I had the chance to get off a Belly Drum then even Aqua Jet was able to OHKO almost everything. Especially fun when the opponent set up rain after the Veil was set up.
I started the team as a joke, but it ended up working surprisingly well, and ended up serving the function I wanted it to. If I ever wanted to return to the team, I'd probably replace either Nasty Plot or Icy Wind on Ninetales with Blizzard, and replace Arcanine with an Intimidate Krookodile. Also, Calm Mind could potentially be better than Nasty Plot on Ninetales, but it worked out well enough as is.
I assume people are going to tell me I should have used physical Lucario but I don't like physical Lucario.
Now I need to decide if I'm going to try and get 50 wins in Multis or decide I've finished until USUM...
Aside from this, I think the biggest problem with Multis is the accessibility. In order to get a usable partner, you have to scout them in Singles first... which requires you to play Singles, thus taking away time that you could be playing Multis (it's like you have to play a different mode to even have a chance of starting this one). And everything is random, meaning that you have to actually find (and beat) a good trainer in order to scout them. People in this thread have racked up hundreds of wins looking for specific trainers and never found them.
XY did it better by letting you use your friend list as partners, and it was easier to "scout" people by adding their Friend Code (I know a few people whose trainers with Scarfed Eruption users were popular). ORAS nerfed it by limiting you to 4 preset partners, and then this game added yet another entry barrier, pushing away even more players.
Don't forget the N64 Stadiums, which also sized everything to scale. I remember Lugia being floor-hoggingly gigantic.
hotdogturtle Doubles is more helpful for scouting because you know immediately who their first and second pokemon are. Scouting will not pick their third even if it was sent out after their lead fainted in a single battle. Since you have to choose to scout right away, you can make a better informed decision after doubles.
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