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Challenge Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    With Recover, Eviolite P2 will always beat Magnezone (without Charge Beam) unless you get some fairly ridiculous crit hax or paralyze hax or Flash Cannon Sp Def drops. Magnezone shouldn't be a consideration if you're just thinking about HP Water.

    Sally would very much like an ice resisting partner. So initial thought would be Heatran or Suicune. I'm more inclined towards Suicune partially because I've had more success with that, but it's also just better for your team I think. P2 can take care of most electric types (It's awesome how most of the hard hitting electric types have lighting rod / volt absorb / motor drive that Porygon2 can just switch in and wall to death... of course too bad Magnezone isn't one of those). And obviously Salamence can switch into grass moves fine.

    On the other hand, Sally's Intimidate will allow Suicune to set up a lot easier (I'm assuming Bold Calm Mind with Rest of course). So there is a fairly good synergy between all 3. Heatran has good synergy too... Not sure what set you'd be using. Every Heatran set I've used before have been at most just decent though...

    Anyway good luck.
  2. Neotornado

    Neotornado

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    *got out of a magnezone battle when said def drops happened* then again, I also paralyzed a +4 honchkrow while trick room was up with tri-attack, so... XD Yeah. my hetrain is sub/flamethrower/earthpower/HPice. max speed and sp. attack. and what moves should I use on suicine if I'm using rest? (I'm using CM + 3 attacking moves)
  3. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    I personally found CM / Surf or Scald / Rest / Sub to be the best, but many have been using Ice Beam instead of Sub. Sub stalls out so much more with much more assurance though. Like P2+Sally+Suicune still has a rock weakness but no resist, but Suicune can PP-stall Stone-Edge and Rockslides with much more ease with sub.
  4. Neotornado

    Neotornado

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    Hm. seems logical, but who should I put toxic on? (it's not anywhere in my team) Maybe I could do the tri-attack/Hpwater and replace TR with it.
  5. skitz0phrenic

    skitz0phrenic

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    My last attempt at Super Doubles with a randomly selected team from my box turned out better than I had expected, losing to hax at battle 67. It consisted of Serperior (lol), Terrakion, CB Dragonite, and LO Starmie. I had a lot of fun using Terrakion in the Subway, and I had always wanted to try the triples battle infamous Beat Up + Terrakion strategy, so I decided I'd take another shot at Super Doubles and built a team around him.

    Whimsicott (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Beat Up
    - Helping Hand
    - Cotton Spore
    - Giga Drain

    This is my Beat Up'er. If it's still alive after the first turn it can Helping Hand to boost Terrakion even further or Cotton Spore something that may threaten one or both of my backups. Giga Drain is just so I can have a STAB Attack and at least threaten bulky Water/Grounds that Terrakion doesn't like so much.

    Terrakion @ Wide Lens
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake
    - Sacred Sword
    - Protect

    The focal point of the team. It sucks using Wide Lens just to make Rock Slide reliable, but it's more often than not going to be my attack of choice, so I need it to be dependable. There aren't many things that like taking this super boosted STAB Rock Slide, and the things that can fall easily to EQ.

    Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Fire Punch
    - Outrage

    I used CB Dragonite as a physical backup sweeper the first time, and I've found him incredibly reliable with his natural bulk and Multiscale. I decided I'd go with a Life Orbed DD version this time just for more versatility since he is almost never killed in one turn. I'm pretty sure 216 outspeeds most of anything I would need to, bar maybe Weavile, but he loses badly to Volcarona anyway...

    Volcarona (M) @ Fire Gem
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Heat Wave
    - Bug Buzz
    - Quiver Dance
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Before I had used Starmie as my back up Special sweeper, generally to Ice Beam the dragons to death. I wanted to go with the same idea, but something stronger and maybe bulkier. Volcarona doesn't have good defensive typing, but is generally better at taking neutral hits than Starmie. It has amazing STABS, one of the best boosting moves in the game, and eliminates steels much better than Starmie could.

    On paper this looks good to me. Looking for advice/tips/changes before I actually start in to the streak.
  6. Orange Peel

    Orange Peel

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    I love seeing people use Dragonite now.

    I don't know what I'm talking about, especially in Doubles, but wouldn't STAB Aerial Ace be a better option than Fire Punch? Its only advantage would be in hurting ice and steel, but (assuming Whimsicott dies quickly) every other pokemon on your team is in a better position to do so. Aerial Ace would generally kill bugs and plants more efficiently, especially Volc but excepting steel subtypes, and is more powerful and reliable. Unless you're terrified of F'thorn, Scizor and company and think Volc isn't enough, I'd say it's a reasonable switch.

    My only other objection is about your Volcarona: Is the extra power in Heat Wave worth giving up the accuracy and 50% chance of stat increase in Fiery Dance?

    (I'm going to stop now before I say something stupid)
  7. skitz0phrenic

    skitz0phrenic

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    Thanks for the feedback!

    I likely will change Fire Punch on Dragonite as Terrakion manhandles most of the steels I was really concerned with, and Volcarona obviously does as well.

    I have Heat Wave on Volcarona more for the purpose of hitting multiple enemies with a strong STAB attack, though during testing it has missed at some uncomfortable times so I will definitely test Fiery Dance.

    I'm actually considering changing Volcarona for something faster. It's decently fast with a beneficial nature, but not fast enough to stop Garchomp, who at this point is one of my teams biggest threats. Thinking about trying this:

    Gengar (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Sludge Bomb


    I'd take the LO off Dragonite and give him Leftovers which would occasionally heal his multiscale as well, and Gengar needs the LO power more being natured for Speed.
  8. Orange Peel

    Orange Peel

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    Sorry, I didn't realize that Heat Wave hit multiple enemies. I'm not sure how well Leftovers could eat up your losses with such an offensive EV spread, but with low Hp a Shell bell might be an option. It depends on how often you plan on using DD, though. As for your Gengar, you have to be aware that a Psychic-weak trend is beginning to appear on your team.

    Just an afterthought, but w/ Arial Ace and now without Volc, you'll have harder time taking down Skarm.
  9. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    I guess I'll bump this thread back to first page with an ok but not so amazing record. Exactly 100 streak in Double Battle Subway with this team:

    Ambipom / Technician / Jolly @ Focus Sash
    IVs: physical flawless
    EVs: 4 Sp Def 252 Attack 252 Speed
    - Fake Out / Return / Ankle Sweep / U-Turn

    Latios / Levitate / Timid @ Life Orb
    IVs: 31 / ? / 31 / 30 / 30 / 31
    EVs: 4 HP 4 Def 244 SpA 252 Speed
    - Dragon Pulse / Thunderbolt / Surf / Psychic

    Jellicent / Water Absorb / Timid @ Water Gem
    IVs: special flawless
    EVs: 4 HP 252 SpA 252 Speed
    - Water Spout / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam / Energy Ball

    Heatran / Flash Fire / Timid @ Leftovers
    IVs: something like... 27 / ? / 15 / 31 / 26 / 27 (not RNG'd)
    EVs: 252 SpA plenty of speed the rest in HP
    - Flamethrower / Earthpower / Toxic / Protect

    Strategy:
    - Basically Fake Out something and hit something hard on first turn to gain the upper hand
    - I wanted to use Ambipom here instead of other fake out users, because Ambipom is the strongest fake out user that outspeeds Latios (Purugly and Persian are the other two), so even after a fake out, Ambipom can U-Turn for some damage on the same turn that Latios uses surf (and obviously Jellicent switches in for Ambipom if I'm using surf), so that is handy.
    - Jellicent isn't that amazing, but it does have really good resistances for my team. Jellicent switches in on fighting (or STAB normal) moves on Ambipom plenty of times, or ice/bug moves for Latios, or water moves for Heatran.
    - Heatran is another thing that has great resistance combo with Jellicent and Latios, resisting bug, ghost, ice, dark, grass, dragon (though dragons are just handled with Latios most of the time since Heatran lacks HP Ice or Dragon Pulse)
    - Toxic on Heatran is mainly for Stallish pokemon, which I can generally ignore after getting a toxic in. It's especially important, because Ambipom, my only physical attacker, does not attack super hard and sometimes it does faint before the end of the battle.

    How I lost:
    At battle 101, hm... let's see how much I remember. I think it went something like this:

    Leads were Electivire and Manectric. The other two were Durant and something else I think, but it basically came down to one misplay where Heatran should have switched out for Jellicent to take Electivire's Earthquake while Ambipom's Return KOs Electivire the turn after, but instead Heatran fainted and so Durant was able to KO Ambipom with Power Herb dig. Jellicent survived a Tpunch (with like 6HP left) and Shadow Balled Electivire to death as Durant used dig, so obviously Jellicent faints the turn after. Well, Dig could have missed from Hustle I guess, but it didn't happen. I know that my Heatran with Protect walls Durant (after the Power Herb was used up), so should have switched him out.

    ... I probably remembered some of that wrong, since it doesn't seem quite right (Durant could have targeted Ambipom with dig and I would still be left in a similar situation). Anyway I just remember it was something like that where if I switched to Jellicent I would have had a much higher chance of winning.

    @skitz0phrenic:
    Comments:
    - Yeah definitely take LO off Dragonite. Having LO on Dragonite loses the whole point of using Multiscale.
    - Outrage is a move that does not let you choose your target in Double, so it might not be such a good move to use since it only targets the right opponent half the time.
    - Not sure if Dragonite will really have time to Dragon Dance. Even with Multiscale, if it's double targeted, it still might just faint (like a fast random attack breaking Multiscale followed by an ice attack). Not saying it never works, but you want to minimize your risk, so I'd advise not having DD. Not having DD and outrage and LO does reduce Dragonite's power by a lot though. Maybe you can consider mix nite with Draco Meteor...
    - Last year I used this moveset at VGC to some success: Dnite @ LO - Superpower / Draco Meteor / Extremespeed / Protect. Obviously that was with inner focus since 5th gen wasn't even out yet (Superpower is 4th gen only move). DM hits things really hard, and even after SpA drops, there's still ES and Superpower to work with (or even after attack drop from superpower, DM's still just as powerful). I actually specifically wanted Inner Focus to prevent fake out flinch too. Heh, whatever works for you. Only Extremespeed is a must on any Double Battle Dragonite imo, anything else goes. If you do want to outspeed Weavile after one DD you need 236 Speed EVs.
    - Well, here's a thought... if you think steel types are handled fine, then Dragonite can just have DD / DM / Dragon Claw / Extremespeed and keep Multiscale while holding draco plate or white herb.
    - Gengar seems like an ok replacement, but just keep in mind that Gengar can only switch in on predicted EQs and Fighting moves aimed at Terrakion... which I didn't think you plan on switching out anyway. So maybe that'll be ok.

    Anyway good luck.
  10. Cl0wn

    Cl0wn

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    hmmm i do not really agree with AA being better than fire punsh on dnite. Most bug / grass pokes will die from Firepunsh more or less as hard as from AA. (only 15 point difference) and volcarona will take as much damage from an outrage as it would from a SE AA. In general fire punsh has a much better coverage than AA combined with outrage. Hope it makes sense what i write because i am writing from my mobile =)
  11. Orange Peel

    Orange Peel

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    Definately not "more" hard unless there's a convenient subtype. I did mention F'thorn, Scizor, Escavalier (w/ convenient subtypes), but with those covered, AA hits what it needs to harder than Firepunch and is generally more reliable and powerful neutral hitter. But I do agree that without Volc, Firepunch can better make up for lacking a good means to kill steels
  12. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Yes Fire Punch might hit harder in a good amount of scenarios, but Aerial Ace takes out Fighting Types (except Lucario and Cobalion) which have proven to be a huge threat this generation, and Aerial Ace cannot miss. In a place where Minimize, Double Team, and Bright Powder can be utilized, Aerial Ace gains a good amount of viability
  13. Orange Peel

    Orange Peel

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    Alright, I'm gonna try again. It's too much effort to get an Uxie, but I've already begun breeding my T-tar so I've based a team around him. I need to fill in the gaps, and obviously if there's any substitutions I'll hear them before I begin breeding for moves.

    Reuniclus @ Life Orb

    EVs: Hp, Sp Attack, Defense
    Magic Guard

    Psychic
    Focus Blast
    Reflect
    Light Screen

    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Adamant
    EVs: Hp, Sp Defense, Defense
    Sand Stream

    Substitute
    Dragon Dance
    Earthquake
    Crunch

    Skarmory @ Wide Lens
    Adamant
    EVs: Attack,
    Sturdy

    Brave Bird
    Rock Slide

    So the blanks are what I've yet to set in stone. The EVs are in order of greatest to least, but are also not fixed.
  14. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Why do you have no Stone Edge/Rock Slide on Tyranitar? And why in a million years do you have no Attack investment past the nature and how do you think you can pull off Dragon Dance with no Speed investment whatsoever?

    Also, what's the significance of Rock Slide on Skarmory?
  15. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    @Orange Peel: Whoa, sorry for the big reaction, but what are you trying to do here?

    A bulky set up Tyranitar NEEDS trick or at least a stat reducer in order to work. It has a handful of good resistances, yes, but it also has a ton of weaknesses, which means most things are likely going to be able to break Ttar's sub with a super effective move. You do have screens from Reuniclus, but ... it's holding a life orb (instead of sash) means that it is likely to not be able to set up screen(s) sometimes, because even though it has some bulk, it still faints from hard hitting STAB attacks, or perhaps a crit.

    I'm not sure what Skarmory is doing with rock slide. I almost thought this was a doubles team because of it, but, yeah, the only attacking Skarmory I can see that's viable in Battle Subway/Tower/etc. is Flying Move / Sub / Toxic / Roost (i.e. the one Peterko used). Flying Move can be Brave Bird (if you don't mind recoil), Drill Peck (less power but decent damage), or Fly (more damage than Drill Peck, slightly less accurate, but 2 turns... whose positive is more toxic damage and leftovers recovery if you are using leftovers and negative is ... well, opponent can theoretically set up or use recover on the flying turn).

    If you don't want to use a stat-reducer / Trick lead, then Ttar should be Jolly with max attack and speed... or you can try a trick room lead if you want (in which case your Ttar should be Brave holding LO or Iron Ball), but that might be unreliable (you will need a bulky TRer like an Eviolite P2 / Dusclops or something with a sash for it to work more reliably).

    Hope this helps.
  16. Gertle627

    Gertle627

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    I'd suggest leading with TTar to get that sandstorm up from the start. And then switch to Skarm if the opponent is using a physical attacker (lacking fire/electric obviously).

    As for Skarmory, I've been trying out a Stealth Rock / Spikes / Roost / Whirlwind set lately and it works very well, but you do come across Taunters much more often. The 2 times I tried to lead with it, my opponent led with a Taunter. But I'm using it now alongside Electivire & Heatran and am somewhere in the 30s now. I wish I had Drill Peck (tho I'm not sure what I'd want to drop) but this set has singlehandedly swept a handful of teams just by whirlwinding them into constant entry hazard damage.
  17. EspeonX

    EspeonX

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    Are 31 IVs especially necessary beyond 100 wins, it takes a ton of time to find a good one...?
  18. skitz0phrenic

    skitz0phrenic

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    Speed is the most important, followed by probably Attack and SpA. HP and Defenses aren't as relevant on sweepers obviously, unless you're really crunching numbers to survive some specific threat.

    Meeting certain speed tiers is very important though as going first can be the difference between winning and losing.
  19. popprocks

    popprocks

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    I hit 57 wins running Focus sash Lucario, scarf garchomp, and a lefties DDance Gyarados with taunt. Having only physical attackers with no status effects or recovery and a lot of pretty fragile pokemon is weird, but it works a lot of the time.

    I really have trouble against pokemon that I can neither 1HKO or set up on (SD lucario, dd gyarados). Mainly, Spiritombs with willowisp and Staraptors really mess with me. Spiritomb can take any hit, burn, and then swagger/pain split basically any pokemon. Staraptor can 1HKO any of my pokes without Gyarados intimidating it, so basically if they send out Staraptor after Gyarados KOs something, I immediately lose.

    I could probably break 70 using this team as I have two streaks over 49 that both ended due to bad plays rather than team flaws, but I guess I should probably work out something better rather than grind my face against the wall until I get lucky.
  20. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    Substitute stops Spiritomb dead as it'd just continuously try to pain split or wow you. Having a special attacker might be a good thing too, perhaps something speedy with thunderbolt. Jolteon/Zapdos/Lati@s maybe? Or just have something that can take fairly heavy hits. ... Like Eviolite Trace P2 stops Staraptor fairly well, tracing intimidate while taking not that much damage, recovering off damage (since it has to take 2 hits) and then KOing with Tbolt.
  21. ashez

    ashez

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    first things first get this back onto the first page where it belongs :) haaa!

    just had another doubles streak end at 84 :( and its working great apart from one member so need help on it. not going to go into loads detail because this is far from finished article.

    leads:

    Abomasnow@focus sash - blizzard-toxic-energy ball-protect
    Heatran@air balloon - flamethrower - heat wave - protect - earth power

    back up:
    mamoswine@life orb - earthquake-icicle w/e-ice shard-protect
    jellicent@leftovers - surf -blizzard - protect - HP electric

    this team is so simple, it was inspired by chinese doods comments about his zapdos+krook team about dos having free hits due to krooks weaknesses.

    the whole idea is to bait attacks due to snows weaknesses which heatran takes out, then you guess'd it whatever bothers heat snow kills :)

    mamoswine is there to abuse hail and just one my favorite pokes, and he does a great job at clearing up, switches into electric attacks now and then to, just wish thick fat was legal would help :(

    then theres jelli...covers all the weaknesses perfectly, can switch in so often. yet its just not up to the job and i'm really stuck on who to bring in, in its place. it just purely doesnt hit hard enough :(.

    like i said for 4th spot i'm out ideas. i need a electric attack due to gyarados/moltres/charizard/wallrein bring massive problems. and also want to abuse blizzard. so was wondering if anyone had any ideas?

    i lost due to wallrein just stalling the hell out me, managed to get him to struggle with jelli stalling but i only had protect left so as i protected he wasnt loosing health but actually gaining it due to ice body and i ended up loosing the struggle battle :(

    any help thoughts would be brillient cheers :)
  22. Pika25

    Pika25

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    Say hello to Rotom-f. Abuses STAB Blizzard in hail, also carries the requisite Thunderbolt. I would replace jelly with this.
    Edit: Oh, and give it the leftovers you gave jelly.
  23. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    Glad you found some of my things useful!

    Offensively Rotom-F does work out well with Blizzard and TBolt, as well as having Levitate for Mamoswine to freely EQ.

    ... On the other hand, having the entire team weak to Fighting (and 2 Rock-weak with no resist) might not be too good defensively. I think you do want the defensive switches sometimes.

    Latios and Zapdos are both good Tbolting attackers that work well with Mamoswine, but unfortunately neither will be abusing Blizzard. Dragonite learns both Tbolt and Blizzard, but its speed is not too great, and plus you're better off using its physical attacks (and also Dnite adds to the rock weakness). Starmie can work, as it has similar resistance to Jellicent and learns TBolt and Blizzard, just no levitate for Mamo's EQs but you might be able to work around that.

    Alternatively, there is also rockslide which also hits all your mentioned threats for super effective. Plenty of things learn that.

    ... I think Starmie or something fast is better for your team, because as it currently stands, nothing in your team is particularly fast. Even for my Zap+Krook team, sometimes I just wished my pokemon were faster. (Oh actually I don't think I mentioned... for my team I changed my Rotom-H from White Herb to Choice Scarf and had Trick replacing Protect... because I wanted the extra speed for outspeeding things like Aerodactyl.)

    So Starmie or Latios seem to be good choices.There's also Aerodactyl or Archeops Rockslides which work well with Mamo's EQ, but they can't really switch in with their weak defenses (and bad ability for Archeops).

    Hope that helps.

    EDIT: If you DO end up using Starmie and Blizzard, I think I would recommend Mamo to replace Icicle Crash (or w/e it's called) with Rockslide for better coverage. Having 4 ice moves in a team of 4 is a probably bit unnecessary.
  24. skitz0phrenic

    skitz0phrenic

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    It would make his entire team weak to fighting though, which could come back to hurt significantly.

    I'm not saying Rotom-F isn't great for a Hail team such as this, because he would be an amazing offensive addition, but some other changes would have to be made I think on top of just replacing Jelli with Rotom-F.
  25. Ashenlock

    Ashenlock

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    Aug 17, 2007
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    Several weeks ago I was trying to get my White card and got a 103 streak in Super Doubles, losing on battle 104. It's not especially long compared to the other streaks so far, but it was my first try with that team, so maybe I can manage something better with a little help. Team was:

    [​IMG]

    Politoed @ Water Gem
    MODEST
    +Drizzle+
    6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Surf
    -Hydro Pump
    -Ice Beam
    -Protect

    [​IMG]

    Ludicolo @ Absorb Bulb
    MODEST
    +Swift Swim+
    6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Fake Out
    -Hydro Pump
    -Giga Drain
    -Ice Beam

    [​IMG]

    Scizor @ Flying Gem
    ADAMANT
    +Technician+
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Spe
    -Bullet Punch
    -Bug Bite
    -Acrobatics
    -Protect

    [​IMG]

    Raikou @ Life Orb
    RASH
    +Pressure+
    6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Thunder
    -Aura Sphere
    -HP Ice
    -Weather Ball

    General rainstuffs. Scizor is the answer to bulky Grass-types and Sturdy/Sashers, Raikou is my all purpose SE-hitter. Politoed would almost always (Probably always) Surf while Ludicolo Fake Out'd on the first turn. Not much else to say here; rain is kind of looked down upon but I just wanted to win and not be as aggravated by the Subway as I was by the Tower.

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