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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Virizion

    Virizion

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,290

    Sorry to nitpick, but it was the "last turn of rain" when Chomp fainted and Skarmory took a rain-boosted Muddy Water?
  2. thelaytonmobile

    thelaytonmobile

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    260
    The new Sturdy is why I was planning on using Haxorus in singles - I think Mold Breaker beats Sturdy.
    Also, not everything was nerfed - more Pokemon got Accupressure, and it works behind substitues too.

    Anyway, just be thankful the only Pokemon with Clear Smog is on the easy line and not the hard, and that only 7 movesets include Sacred Sword.
  3. Virizion

    Virizion

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
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    Yes, Mold Breaker does hit through Sturdy. That's why I use a Haxorus in Single Trains also.
  4. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    4,540
    I transferred over my old WiFi Tower team to use in the Singles Train.. mainly looking to earn some BP for items and mess around a bit. I lost at battle 47 or 48 because I didn't have items. Focus Sash is especially important to the success of this particular team and without them some battles were tougher than they should have been.

    I haven't really looked at the new set lists but here's some early thoughts from what I've seen/pondered:

    Weavile is a pretty excellent lead thanks to how useful Fake Out is. Most Sturdy mons have rock attacks so you just Fake Out to break the ability (or Sash or whatever) and then switch out to the pokemon that can now OHKO... in my case, Machamp which resists the rock attack. Plus, how can you not love the speed? I'm sure there's pokemon that will become a pain in the ass down the line but in the early battles, it's a very useful team member.

    As we complain about Sturdy, I can't help but want to abuse it myself.. it's a free Focus Sash.. both for item clause and item flexibility.

    Machamp is still effective so I can only imagine how well a similar set on Guts Conkeldurr will do. Higher HP and attack stat, Drain Punch for recovery and a stab priority move. Payback in the last slot? Definitely going to give it a shot with Zapdos and Weavile.

    There was a Hyper Beam Porygon-Z in there which fucked my shit up and ended my run.. probably wouldn't have happened with Conkeldurr (or just having a Sash on my Weavile but the former is much less situational and more "fuck off glass cannons").

    Speaking of glass cannons.. really want to try some of this gen's hard hitters.. Darmanitan, Archeops, Sandstream supported Excadrill (already have a great Jolly one), Haxorus, Chandelure.. really you could list a lot of new mons and I'd find them appealing. Need to work up that all Unova Subway team...

    I saw a couple of Zoroark impersonating other Dark types but nothing where it was like "oh shit that's not pokemon X".. Plus Fake Out was handy again for this type of thing.

    I thought I had more but I guess not.. I'll add to this later maybe but I'm tired.. bed time!
  5. feral_brute

    feral_brute

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    61
    I've also been bitten by the "oh cool, new Gen V guys could be fun" bug and have been breeding and attempting to use a team of Mienshao, Hydreigon, and Reuniclus to very limited success at the moment. My best streak with the team was barely into the 30's I think before I was absolutely demolished by what seems to be a similar Weavile to what Carl is running.

    It outsped my Mienshao with a fake out of its own since I went ahead and tried to at least break its sash in the off chance (yeah right) that it wasn't also running the move and then I'm sure you can figure the rest out from there. Night slashed Reuniclus after setting up trick room and then missing with focus blast followed by Hydreigon being ice punched to death after at least confirming that it did indeed have a sash.

    I also want to try and use a bulky Conkeldurr with Mach punch and Drain punch, but I don't know how well retaining Mienshao as a lead would work out with that. Choosing a good lead for whatever team I happen to be trying to use has always been the hardest part for me in every generation so far.

    Agreeing with whoever said it above that I enjoy the subway so far as it starts off being challenging from the get go rather than having to get a couple of rounds under your belt.
  6. NoCheese

    NoCheese It's not just a house...it's a maison!
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    185
    Battle Subway Super Single Record: 112

    My team:

    Garchomp @ Choice Band "Iskierka"
    Trait: Sand Veil
    Nature: Jolly (+Spd, -Spa)
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Fire Fang (rarely used)
    -Swords Dance (obviously not used)

    Stats: 183/182/114/85/105/169
    IVS: 29/31/28/20/31/31
    EVs: 4/252/0/0/0/252


    Milotic @ Leftovers "Gem"
    Trait: Marvel Scale
    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    -Scald
    -Ice Beam
    -Toxic
    -Recover

    Stats: 184/70/137/138/143/102
    IVS: 22/27/28/31/26/31
    EVs: 148/0/216/142/0/4

    Scizor @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Technician
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Spa)

    -Bullet Punch
    -Bug Bite
    -Superpower
    -Swords Dance

    Stats: 172/200/115/57/99/85
    IVS: 22/31/20/9/29/30
    EVs: 252/252/0/0/0/4

    --

    Long time lurker, first time poster.

    This is the same basic team I used in Platinum, and it still does reasonably well, though there's more ways things can go wrong in the subway than in the tower.

    Basic strategy is simple. Against pokemon that are NOT either bulky waters/ices that can absorb an attack and OHKO back or fast pokes that can outrun me with an ice attack, I earthquake or outrage as appropriate. Fire fang is only for pokemon who are quad-weak to it. It's remarkable how many things are OHKOed by even a neutral choice banded outrage. Even past battle 100, I got a couple of "clean sweeps" where outrage or earthquake swept the opponent's entire team. Once I am confused by outrage or locked into a bad matchup with earthquake, I switch.

    On the aforementioned bulky or fast ice-using pokemon, I instead switch. Milotic is the default switch in, since that preserves Scizor's focus sash, and it's hard for ice and water pokemon to hurt Milotic, so I can safely toxic stall them out. However, I have to be more careful with potential setup chesto rest pokemon (like Wailord, Walrein, and Swampert) as trying to toxic stall them to death can be a fatal mistake by giving them time to set up on me. Where I am afraid of that, I instead switch to Scizor first, who can then bug bite and clear out the chesto berry. Once a pokemon sleeps with no chesto berry, I am free to switch back to Garchomp for the kill.

    Scizor can also set up on many ice pokemon, though it's important not to be too greedy with the swords dances and risk losing him to a critical hit. At +6, bullet punch kills a ton of stuff, even those that resist it. The Scizor set is pretty standard, but I'll note that the secondary ability on bug bite is very useful, less for stealing berry heals for me than for denying sleepers their chesto berries. Focus sash is a handy insurance policy, protecting against critical hits, and allowing a healthy Scizor to take a fire attack in a pinch. Bullet punch complements the sash well, since it means that even against faster pokemon, I'm usually guaranteed two attacks for revenge kills, and at least one attack even when switching directly into an otherwise deadly attack.

    I played around with using an eviolite Porygon2 with ice beam, thunderbolt, toxic, and recover in place of Milotic, but even with the huge defenses, the lack of resistances and the prevalence of random focus blasters really were problems. Milotic's attacks and defenses are just enough to handle a wide variety of pokemon, and its typing compliments Garchomp really well, resisting the ice attacks aimed his way. As an added bonus, when Garchomp is confused from outrage when an electric pokemon is brought in (or locked into an earthquake against a levitating electric poke), I can often use Milotic to reset it by switching to Milotic and then back to Garchomp. On the switch to Milotic, Garchomp's immunity means the AI won't use an electric attack, and on the switch back, Garchomp will laugh at the electric attack aimed Milotic's way.

    Scald is a big upgrade over surf. First, once any physical attacker is burnt, Milotic can easily wall it and wear it down (unless it has rest). Second it provides an insurance policy against freezes from ice attacks. Since Milotic switches into a lot of ice attacks aimed at Garchomp, this is significant. Finally, the burn damage allows a lesser form of toxic stalling against the poison and steel pokemon that can otherwise be difficult for Milotic because they are immune to toxic and either resist Milotic's other attacks or have very high special defense. Registeel is the most notable example.

    My EV spread on Milotic is odd, but the speed gives it 102, enough to outspeed the big group at 100, as well as no-speed investment Milotic and Gyarados. The defense investment and bold nature give it comparable defense and special defense, allowing it to wall both physical and special attacks, though it still has trouble stalling against high powered grass and electric attacks. The hp investment ups the overall durability, and the special attack allows it to actually do decent damage with ice beam and scald. Besides the speed, I have not heavily theorymoned the EVs, so I am sure there are improvements that can be made.

    The battle subway is in general much more difficult than the battle tower was. Lots of sturdy pokemon and focus sashes make clean sweeps more rare, and there's all sorts of unexpected ways to get into trouble, like Garchomp using outrage against a slower pokemon that it easily 2HKOs, only to activate a custap berry and die to the accelerated second attack.

    Particular danger pokemon against this team include:

    Timid Starmies (a healthy Scizor can revenge kill with bug bite after something else dies, but it can't always safely switch in to an attack)
    Timid Lati@s (although after a previous draco metor Spa drop, Scizor can set up)
    Bulky Resters with set up or OHKO moves (Gyarados and Walrein especially)
    Faster pokemon that can ko Garchomp with a critical hit (Alakazam and close combat infernape come to mind)

    In general, it helps to pay attention to the type of trainer you are facing, as that can really help in deciding whether it's better to open with outrage or earthquake against a pokemon that will die in the same number of hits to either. Terribly frustrating leading with an earthquake and having the opponent's second pokemon levitate. However careful you are, though, when living off of choice band, a bad sequence of enemy pokemon can really hurt, and you'll need some luck to support a long streak. I died on battle 24 the streak before this 112, and there's definitely a high variance with this team. Still, it can win a lot of battles very quickly, so is a great team for racking up the BP.

    --

    I finally lost to the following team on battle 113:
    Beartic 352
    Glaceon 696
    Walrein 880 (EVIL)

    Beartic is first out, and I switch to Scizor, taking a hit from avalanche. Scizor swords dances, gets hit with stone edge, and faints Beartic with bullet punch.
    Glaceon is second out. Bullet punch activates Glaceon's focus sash, and Glaceon faints Scizor with blizzard.
    I send out Garchomp, who outrages, killing glaceon.
    Walrein is third out. Outrage takes it to high red health, and Walrein faints Garchomp with sheer cold.
    I send out Milotic. Scald isn't enough to kill Walrein, and Walrein rests. After that, it's just a matter of time before a OHKO lands. It actually takes a while, but after six or so tries with fissure and sheer cold (mixed with sleeping off toxic and scald damage), a sheer cold lands and ends my streak.

    Proof pictures:
    http://img9.imageshack.us/i/img0272o.jpg/
    http://img109.imageshack.us/i/img0273tc.jpg/
  7. Team Rocket Elite

    Team Rocket Elite Data Integration Thought Entity
    is a Pokemon Researcher

    Joined:
    May 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,006
    I managed to complete the list of Super Subway Trainer names for all 190 trainers you can face in the Super Subway. Each set is divided by a line. The trainers in the 4th and 5th sets, or the last 100 trainers have a number and letter in parentheses before their names. These correspond to their trainer type and this post:
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3061741&postcount=321

    Edit: Also see this:
    http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/BattleSubwayTrainers.txt

    As stated earlier, these Set 4 and Set 5 trainers all have IV 31 for their stats.

    Also, it seems that the trainers you fight in the first set (first 50 trainers) have an IV of 15 or 16 for their Pokemon.

    Refer to Peterko's post that I linked to for what "First Set of Group (B) Pokemon" and similar mean. The other descriptions that aren't completely spelled out below are:

    Double Battle Specialist - They use a lot of multi target moves like Rock Slide and Blizzard. They carry Pokemon with Double Battle support moves like Protect, Heal Pulse and Follow Me.

    Annoyer Movesets - Stall sets. Defensive sets. Pokemon that don't have damaging moves. Lots of disruption in general.

    OHKO Users - Good news. There aren't very many Pokemon with OHKO attacks. Bad news. This guy uses all of them and only them.

    "High BST, some fast Pokemon and some Walls???" - I don't know what they were thinking with these trainers.

    Set 1

    Backpacker (F) Polina - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Backpacker (F) Zlata - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Backpacker (M) Mabon - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Backpacker (M) Shamus - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Baker Chelsie - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Baker Col - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Baker Maris - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    Biker Jacob - Ghost and Dark Types
    Biker Joachim - Ghost and Dark Types
    Biker Xavier - Ghost and Dark Types

    Fisherman Duncan - Water Types (+ Vanilluxe)
    Fisherman Morgan - Water Types (+ Vanilluxe)

    Harlequin Brant - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Harlequin Egil - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Harlequin Surune - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    Hiker Glen - Rock and Ground Types
    Hiker Tapioca - Rock and Ground Types

    Lass Huitres - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Lass Paulina - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Lady Huitre - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Lady Poisson - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Maid Ceylon - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Maid Cyanea - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Maid Minerva - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    Parasol Lady Cocome - Water + Normal Types (+ Vanilluxe)
    Parasol Lady Nu - Water + Normal Types (+ Vanilluxe)
    Parasol Lady Pomodi - Water + Normal Types (+ Vanilluxe)

    Pokefan (F) Biijal - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Pokefan (F) Meryl - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    Pokefan (M) Filippe - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Pokefan (M) Sergio - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    Preschooler (F) Betty - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Preschooler (F) Helen - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Preschooler (M) Usef - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Preschooler (M) Zaid - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Rich Boy Bertran - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Rich Boy Troy - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Roughneck Calon - Fighting and Dark Types
    Roughneck Oberon - Fighting and Dark Types
    Roughneck Triton - Fighting and Dark Types

    School Kid (F) Percy - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    School Kid (F) Scout - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    School Kid (M) Fritz - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    School Kid (M) Layton - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Waiter Karston - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Waiter Lennart - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    Waitress Ikaora - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Waitress Meena - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    Youngster Sherman - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Youngster Sill - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    ---------------------------

    Set 2

    Clerk (F) Mohair - Second Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Clerk (F) Velour - Second Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    Clerk (M) Vadim - Second Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Clerk (M) Yuri - Second Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    Cyclist (F) Minnow - Second Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Cyclist (F) Oren - Second Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Cyclist (M) Amhed - Second Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Cyclist (M) Hamid - Second Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Nursery Aide Hazel - 7 Eeveelutions. That's 7 movesets total.
    Nursery Aide March - 15 Starters
    Nursery Aide Polka - Dragon Types (For real this time, unlike those Dragon Tamers in 4th Gen Battle Tower/Frontier)

    Painter Bogey - Steel, Ghost, Normal & Psychic Types (Mostly Genderless)
    Painter Dali - Steel, Ghost, Normal & Psychic Types (Mostly Genderless)
    Painter Iron - Steel, Ghost, Normal & Psychic Types (Mostly Genderless)

    Policeman Bobjiro - Fighting and Steel Types (from Group B)
    Policeman Bobyosi - Fighting and Steel Types (from Group B)

    Worker (Ice) Antoin - Ice Types
    Worker (Ice) Rey - Ice Types

    Worker Earwin - Rock and Ground Types
    Worker Lamont - Rock and Ground Types

    ----------------------------

    Set 3

    Depot Agent Cameron - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Depot Agent Jackie - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Doctor Adenine - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Doctor Frank - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Doctor Thymine - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Gentleman Boyce - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Gentleman Dover - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    Janitor Ketmon - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Janitor Nida - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Nurse Kikuri - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Nurse Kushina - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    Nurse Tomatoe - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    Pilot Florian - Flying Types
    Pilot Phyl - Flying Types

    Pokemon Breeder (F) Kathy - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Pokemon Breeder (F) Sue - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    Pokemon Breeder (M) Daniil - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Pokemon Breeder (M) Fedor - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    Socialite Ashley - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    Socialite Joice - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    -----------------------------

    Set 4

    (64) Battle Girl Aces - Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
    (64) Battle Girl Flush - Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
    (64) Battle Girl Queenie - Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types

    (51) Black Belt Enpi - Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
    (51) Black Belt Harimao - Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
    (51) Black Belt Unsu - Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types

    (67) Clerk (Executive) Faust - Fourth Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    (67) Clerk (Executive) Ulfgang - Fourth Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    (36) Psychic (F) Longo - Psychic and Ghost Types
    (36) Psychic (F) Sambala - Psychic and Ghost Types
    (36) Psychic (F) Zaya - Psychic and Ghost Types

    (35) Psychic (M) Boldbat - Psychic and Ghost Types
    (35) Psychic (M) Khaan - Psychic and Ghost Types
    (35) Psychic (M) Solongo - Psychic and Ghost Types

    (52A) Scientist (F) Charis - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    (52B) Scientist (F) Lotte - Fourth Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    (52A) Scientist (F) Therese - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    (46A) Scientist (M) Shan - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    (46A) Scientist (M) Spacey - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    (46B) Scientist (M) Stubs - Fourth Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    ------------------------------

    Set 5

    (50A) Ace Trainer (F) Gwen - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon with 17 less Pokemon
    (50B) Ace Trainer (F) Mooi - Fourth Set of Group (B) Pokemon with 43 less Pokemon
    (50C) Ace Trainer (F) Palm - Cover My Weakness, Intimidate and Sweep

    (49B) Ace Trainer (M) Dylan - Fourth Set of Group (B) Pokemon with 43 less Pokemon
    (49A) Ace Trainer (M) Farley - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon with 17 less Pokemon
    (49C) Ace Trainer (M) Reigel - Cover My Weakness, Intimidate and Sweep

    (28B) Backpacker (F) Simone - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    (28A) Backpacker (F) Wald - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    (27B) Backpacker (M) Cedric - First Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    (27A) Backpacker (M) Felton - First Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    (34) Baker Judy - Fire and Grass Types. Sunny Day Team.
    (34) Baker Vespera - Fire and Grass Types. Sunny Day Team

    (72) Biker Petro - "High BST, some fast Pokemon and some Walls???"
    (72) Biker Philipo - "High BST, some fast Pokemon and some Walls???"

    (48) Clerk (F) Anette - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    (48) Clerk (F) Anora - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    (66) Clerk (M) Bank - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    (66) Clerk (M) Elwin - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    (91) Cyclist (F) Birgit - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    (91) Cyclist (F) Margit - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    (90) Cyclist (M) Dante - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    (90) Cyclist (M) Marion - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    (83) Depot Agent Isadore - Some Electric and Steel Types
    (83) Depot Agent Ramses - Some Electric and Steel Types

    (61) Doctor Dwight - Fourth Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    (61) Doctor Levant - Fourth Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    (29B) Fisherman Fird - Water Types and a stray Vanilluxe (Sets 3,4)
    (29A) Fisherman Humfrey - Water Types and a stray Vanilluxe (Sets 1,2)

    (75) Gentleman Camus - All 4 Sets of Legendaries
    (75) Gentleman Kavan - All 4 Sets of Legendaries

    (32) Harlequin Aramis - Trick Room Team. All of them are slow Pokemon.
    (32) Harlequin Athos - Trick Room Team. All of them are slow Pokemon.

    (74A) Hiker Jorge - All 4 Sets of Ground Types
    (74B) Hiker Kemuel - All 4 Sets of Rock Types

    (58) Janitor Eric - Double Battle Specialist.
    (58) Janitor Oscar - Double Battle Specialist

    (87) Maid Anguile - 15 Starters
    (87) Maid Fesan - 15 Starters

    (62) Nurse Panarat - Fourth Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    (62) Nurse Saisune - Fourth Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    (13) Nursery Aide Chachi - Eeveelutions
    (13) Nursery Aide Evelyn - Eeveelutions

    (33) Painter Hacikan - Steel, Ghost, Normal & Psychic Types (Mostly Genderless)
    (33) Painter Rikkyu - Steel, Ghost, Normal & Psychic Types (Mostly Genderless)

    (65) Parasol Lady Hilary - Some Water Types, Some Electric Types and a stray Weezing (Rain Dance Team)
    (65) Parasol Lady Vanna - Some Water Types, Some Electric Types and a stray Weezing (Rain Dance Team)

    (43) Pilot Artemas - All 4 Sets of Flying Types
    (43) Pilot Chand - All 4 Sets of Flying Types

    (18) Pokemon Breeder (F) Janet - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    (18) Pokemon Breeder (F) Shawna - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    (17) Pokemon Breeder (M) Eoin - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    (17) Pokemon Breeder (M) Manford - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    (25A) Pokemon Ranger (F) Ivy - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    (25B) Pokemon Ranger (F) Paula - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    (25B) Pokemon Ranger (F) Terran - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    (24B) Pokemon Ranger (M) Mouse - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    (24A) Pokemon Ranger (M) Skyblue - Third Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    (24B) Pokemon Ranger (M) Smokey - Third Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    (86) Policeman Bobemon - Annoyer Movesets
    (86) Policeman Bobnori - Annoyer Movesets

    (57) Roughneck Ganymed - OHKO Users
    (57) Roughneck Proteus - OHKO Users

    (76) Socialite Aparna - All 4 Sets of Legendaries
    (76) Socialite Saty - All 4 Sets of Legendaries

    (71A) Veteran (F) Ginger - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    (71A) Veteran (F) Hecate - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    (71B) Veteran (F) Jeune - All 4 Sets of Legendaries
    (71B) Veteran (F) Risha - All 4 Sets of Legendaries

    (70B) Veteran (M) Colombo - All 4 Sets of Legendaries
    (70A) Veteran (M) Donta - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon with 17 less Pokemon
    (70B) Veteran (M) Leron - All 4 Sets of Legendaries
    (70A) Veteran (M) Ponta - Fourth Set of Group (A) Pokemon with 17 less Pokemon

    (8B) Waiter Gonyan - Second Set of Group (A) Pokemon
    (8A) Waiter Hasan - Second Set of Group (B) Pokemon

    (9B) Waitress Amber - Second Set of Group (B) Pokemon
    (9A) Waitress Roe - Second Set of Group (A) Pokemon

    (44) Worker (Ice) Roman - Hail Team. Ice Type Pokemon.
    (44) Worker (Ice) Valéry - Hail Team. Ice Type Pokemon.

    (26A) Worker Hayes - Sandstorm Team + 6 Extras (Bastiodon 3/4, Aerodactyl, Regirock, Landorus, Terrakion)
    (26B) Worker Quinn - Sandstorm Team
  8. Eppie

    Eppie

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,815
    [​IMG]
    This thread deserves more Luvdisc !

    Thanks everyone for doing the Subway research!
    I'm testing some teams and hopefully post a nice streak soon.
  9. Virizion

    Virizion

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,290
    Ahaha, I just got 2 Shell Smashes against a Rapidash that didn't even break my Sash. It used Bounce and missed, so I SS'ed twice and swept the rest of their team :3

    Also, is this a good team for the Super Singles Train?

    Cloyster @ Focus Sash
    Jolly
    Skill Link
    252Spe/252Atk/4HP
    Ice Shard
    Icicle Spear
    Rock Blast
    Shell Smash


    Starmie @ Expert Belt
    Timid
    Natural Cure
    252Spe/252SpA/4HP
    Surf
    T-Bolt
    Psyshock
    Ice Beam


    Shanderaa @ Choice Specs
    Timid
    252Spe/252SpA/4HP
    Overheat
    Energy Ball
    Shadow Ball
    HP-Ice
  10. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    updated the list

    thanks TRE, great job with that trainer list!

    It doesn´t list streaks like in the previous generation? How does it work this time? I haven´t checked that yet so if anyone has, please post. If there´s no streaks or numbers, in the wi-fi subway, then there´s no point in listing it.

    Just relax a bit, there´s no need to (forcefully) find mistakes in posts with no real records. As for the actual battle, I just skipped a few turns...it went like this

    Turn 3: kingdra rain dance, starmie psychic, sitrus berry heals kingdra
    Turn 4: kingdra hydro pump, starmie psychic
    Turn 5: kingdra ice beam? (don´t remember), starmie fainted
    Turn 6: kingdra ice beam, focus sash activated, garchomp earthquake, kingdra fainted
    Turn 7: seismitoad earth power, garchomp fainted
    Turn 8: skarmory toxic, seismitoad rain dance
    Turn 9: seismitoad muddy water around 140 damage, skarmory roost
    Turn 10: seismitoad muddy water, skarmory fainted


    I´ll adress the "there is already a subway topic" discussion a bit now

    I apologize for not checking whether there was already a thread (my mistake), I´ve only seen people ask when the BW topic would be opened (they asked in the last generation records thread) and I didn´t visit the "dragonspiral tower" part of the forum often.

    The Battle Subway topic was opened on october 20th, it says...but it didn´t list any records until a few days ago, there was mainly strategy talk and stuff, not many actual records (I think).

    I have to admit that even if I knew there was another subway topic, I´d still open the thread (unless the first one was already filled with many records and stuff). That´s a bit harsh, but please don´t take it offensively, it´s only because I feel responsible for this kind of thread around smogon. I´ve been around competitive Pokémon play for a while now (since 2002), I´m still here and don´t have a reason to just leave forever.

    Smogon was (and still is) dominantly a place for the online part of competitive battling, but in-game play has also its merit here, listing records is one major part of that.

    I´ve started the trend of in-game accomplishment acknowledgment (lol) and discussion with the Battle Frontier Max Stats Pokemon Database, followed by a member of the smogon´s greatest hits topic DP Battle Tower Records and later came the all time favourite Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records thread.

    I won´t say there would be no such topics on smogon without my effort, that´s not the point here...but fact is, over the years, I´ve put a ridiculous amount of time into in-game play and shared it with the community (not even talking about another aspect of the game - breeding). I think it paid off, many players found a place to measure themselves with others and the competitive aspect created this way made it possible to achieve awesome records.

    What I wanted to say is, of course I can not just claim the right to open this topic, but I think the majority of previous record holders expect that I continue the trend that has become a tradition over the years...and I´d like to continue. I am not downplaying the ability of others to manage a topic like this over a period of x years nor the effort others have put into sustaining the other subway topic.

    Yeah, if the guys in charge decide I broke rules or something and close this thread, no problem with me, but I´d still like to oversee this one. Oh and thanks to everyone who put all kind of effort into the other subway thread.
  11. thelaytonmobile

    thelaytonmobile

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
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    Okay, I'm sorry for misuse of your research but the names in this game are brilliant!

    My particular fave is Layton, of course!


    Also some questions about doubles:
    My leads are going to be Politoed and Toxicroak. I was wondering which of these to use for the final two: Kingdra, Ludicolo, Zapdos/Thundurus. Also, is switching viable in doubles?
  12. Virizion

    Virizion

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    I lol'd @ "Ranger Smokey"

    Also, I'd use Kingdra and Thundurus, but that's just me

    And I'd say it is viable, but only if you really need to
  13. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    nothing beats the policemen Bob, Bobemon, Bobhiko, Bobjiro, Bobnori and Bobyosi...then there´s Lady Won heh

    anyway, I came to the conclusion that running the single battle subway (not super) is the best way to earn the BP needed to buy items...I switched off animations and because the battles are generally much faster (text, hits, everything) than before, it takes around 27 minutes to beat those 21 trainers to get 3+3+10=16 BP, starmie sweeps at least there ._.

    if it weren´t for the fact that after each battle you walk to the PC in the train and into the next wagon for each following battle and the animation between challenges where you have to start from the first wagon each time, the subway would be extremely fast (I didn´t stop time in all battles, but I just went through battles 8-14 in 8,5 minutes and one battle took 61, 65, 68, 75 seconds (the ones I checked)...

    I decided to run this for a while, because I lost again very early, in battle 28 when starmie lost to regice and chomp survived the blizzard due to sash and SD+quaked it, but the last pokémon was an arcanine...of course, I roosted off the damage but it then CHed me with flare blitz (wouldn´t have won anyway, because apparently arca holds a sitrus to get rid of the recoil oh man)...makes me want to use an arcanine, one of my favourites

    the super single battles took longer, obviously you don´t get as many one-hits there...the 15-21 set took 14 minutes, the 22-28 one around 16...while you get 5+6+7=18 BP for battles 1-21, those take much longer...of course if you´ve got a solid team that doesn´t lose as early as mine, the super single subway pays off
  14. Virizion

    Virizion

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    That's why I used Starmie in normal Singles, but to be honest, the fastest (in my opinion) is on the WiFi train, you get 10 BP per 7 battles.
  15. thelaytonmobile

    thelaytonmobile

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    Well as for items I'm going to try and steal a Focus Sash off Cheren's Serperior. If Theif doesn't work, I'll try getting it with Pickup, though I'll need a really high level Pokemon to activate it.
  16. AriadosPerson

    AriadosPerson

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    Oct 25, 2009
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    Held items are returned to the opponent after the battle if stolen.

    I tried this with his Dewott's Leftovers at Twist Mountain.
  17. NoCheese

    NoCheese It's not just a house...it's a maison!
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Thinking about all of the sturdy and focus sashed pokemon in the subway, I wonder if it might actually make sense to consider a stealth rock lead for singles. Seems crazy in a 3 on 3 environment when the AI hardly ever switches, but a bulky lead who sets up rocks would pretty much ensure that a subsequent sweeper won't have to worry about sashes, and (though I'd need to run the calculations) will turn a few 2HKOs into OHKOs.

    My current idea for such a lead is:

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Impish/Careful
    Sturdy

    -Stealth Rock
    -Drill Peck
    -Toxic
    -Roost

    Set up rocks unless you fear a strong fire or electric attack (if you do, switch to Garchomp), and then either toxic stall the opponent out or switch to an appropriate sweeper. Also have to be aware of which pokemon can run taunt, as that will mess up rocks as well. With Skarmory's durability, you'll typically be able to get value from it later on in the match, although this setup unfortunately leaves it unable to do much damage to other steels.

    I considered Tyranitar for automatic sandstorm as another alternative, but most of the sturdy pokemon are immune to sand, and even where sand finishes off a sashed pokemon, it does so at the end of the turn, meaning that the sashed pokemon will still get one attack off before dying to the sand. Far fewer things are immune to Abomasnow's hail, but it still has the problem of doing damage at the end of turn, and it doesn't synergize well with my own pokemon.

    For a more offensive alternative, there's also the possibility of using sashed infernape with fake out, stealth rock, close combat, and u-turn/flare blitz. Fake out gives it the advantage of breaking any sash on the opponent's lead, and not just its second and third pokemon.

    Am I just being foolish, or is there potential in this?
  18. Virizion

    Virizion

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    There is potential there, so I'm going to try it out after my current streak ends. I think, however, that it should have Whirlwind in case there are setup Pokes though.
  19. Miscellaneous

    Miscellaneous

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    Jun 21, 2009
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    Good to see someone new, I mean no offence here but, I don't like it. Skarm is very slow as leads go, and "I'll SR if there's a fire/ electric attack incoming... so 2v3 but you have SR (which is probably going to hit only 2...) up, that's worth it? I wouldn't say so. Also Skarm being slow really subjects it to status such as fast sleep, paralysis or even taunt. Toxic is horrible, as is drill peck of a pitiful attack. Recovery is a definite no-no unless you're stat boosting, and even the Peterko mentioned the problems with stat boosting in the subway. From playing 4th gen battle tower I can also assure you that stalling is horrible and slow and inconsistent.

    Overall - you're much better to go with 3 strong and diverse sweepers or a very solid strategy that has a monodigital pokemon threat number (out of the 980+ pokemon you'll be facing). I'd prefer a destiny bonding wobbuffett with focus sash than a Skarm. And I don't like Wobbuffett - it's only practical if you want a 2v2 situation 95% of the time, because there will be 5% of battles where some oddity messes your strategy over, hence it's important to have a solid few pokemon to be able to drop back on.

    I may be wrong, but my immediate reaction to almost any form of stall is "no".

    Side note: what you did well is look to abuse resistances and abilities such as study, and look to the later game. However, I'm sure you can do much better than that. You'll want your lead to almost always put the momentum in your favour. 2v3 is a daunting prospect, and one that you don't want to be facing often.
  20. Virizion

    Virizion

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    The thing is, it's not meant to stall per se; it's only meant to set up Stealth Rock while not dying to a slight breeze. Anything after that is a bonus, IMO
  21. Miscellaneous

    Miscellaneous

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    Yes but in a battle where the AI is probably not going to switch, what use is SR? Don't make the mistake of thinking this is 6v6 standard. A lead that completely cripples their lead to allow set up does work (or it did), that skarm lead basically puts you in a situation where if the opponent gets 2 lucky turns, you die. Any team with a bad lead is going to be limited to 30 consecutive wins maximum, you just can't afford to constantly put yourself at an immediate disadvantage.

    "a slight breeze" - wait until you realise what it's like to get critt'ed 3 turns in a row, or hit by thunder and paralysed. Another scenario - what if you don't even get SR up? You can try this by all means, but if you did well it would probably be because the next two pokemon pulled the team. A bit of experience (a few losses), will help you realise what I mean by this. I don't mean to belittle any strategy, I'm just offering advice.
  22. Virizion

    Virizion

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    Yes, the other two Pokemon in the team must be good for it to work, but even if you had three fast, frail sweepers, you would run into a problem which a SR-lead alleviates (Spelling fail I think): Focus Sash and Sturdy Pokemon. Frail sweepers would get a hard hit in, hit the opponent down to their Sash/Sturdy, then the opponent would either get a lucky hit or kill you outright due to your frailty. With SR up, though, your sweepers can, well, sweep without worrying about Sashes/Sturdy-abusers.

    Basically, you're using a slot on your team to protect your teammates from being "one-turn-revenged" (A term I made up to describe when an opponent lives due to Sash/Sturdy, and proceeds to kill your Pokemon in the same turn) so they can successfully sweep through the other person's team. Also, you're probably gonna want to use a Special sweeper and a Physical sweeper, like the person that thought of using Skarmory suggested Garchomp and I will too, and I will also suggest Specs/Life Orb Starmie as your Special sweeper, which resists Ice for Chomp (even though neither of them can take a hit, a resistance is nice) and Fire for Skarmory, while Chomp resists Fire (for Skarm) and has an immunity to Electric (for Starmie and Skarm)
  23. Mr. XYZ

    Mr. XYZ

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    From my experience a bulky water is all you need to take care of all Sturdy abusers except Magnezone. You never get Ohko´ed even by crits from them and can kill them slow but save.
  24. Skybane_Zero

    Skybane_Zero

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    Hey. I just joined recently, but I've been visiting Smogon for years for Pokemon Strategies and stuff.
    Anyway, I have a question; How many Speed EVs should I give to an ExplosionGross in this Gen for the Battle Subway? (Super Double/Multi Lines). I don't think my current one will work seeing as Pokemon in this Gen have become faster and such.
  25. Virizion

    Virizion

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    To be honest, I wouldn't use Explosion at all anymore due to the nerf. :L

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