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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 11, 2011
    It looks like my record post gets a bit of advance warning this time, instead of the usual.

    Team Members:

    Politoed @ Choice Scarf ***OpRainFall
    Trait: Drizzle
    IVs: 21/20/26/31/31/31
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast

    Timid Max Speed Scarf Politoed has 201 Speed, outrunning all Base 130s in the Subway. Over 90% of the time, you will be leading off by using Surf, with the other attacks seeing mostly situational usage. Psychic is good for taking on Dry Skin Toxicroaks, and sometimes Tentacruel. Ice Beam is used every now and then to take out Dragons. Focus Blast is a bit of a extra move, as its 70% accuracy isn't something I can rely on. I never use it as my opening move in a battle, but may bank on it if Politoed was swapped out and brought back in late in a battle against something like Empoleon or Lapras.

    Politoed is often expendable to the team as long as the rain is up, but it's often best to keep it alive as long as possible against trainers like Workers who are likely to have weather changers. Don't be afraid of dealing damage to Politoed with friendly fire, for reference:

    Ludicolo 75% Surf: 39-46 damage
    +1 Ludicolo 75% Surf: 59-69 damage
    Kingdra LO 75% Surf: 53-63 damage

    Politoed is usually able to take two Surfs in the battle, and when its low on health, it draws in opponent attacks, so it's usually a good idea not to finish off Politoed with your own attacks.

    Ludicolo @ Absorb Bulb ***RideTheDUX
    Trait: Swift Swim
    IVs: 31/25/25/31/31/29
    EVs: 36 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 212 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fake Out
    - Surf
    - Grass Knot
    - Ice Beam

    Ludicolo is the main workhorse of this team. 212 Speed EVs gives it 116 Speed, outrunning Scarfed Garchomp when in the Rain. The Absorb Bulb makes it a real destructive force but it can't be taken advantage of on the opening turn due to Politoed being slower that Ludicolo. A +1 Surf from Ludicolo along with a Surf from Politoed is often able to wash away the opposition, giving them no chance to fight back. I haven't done any real damage calculations for it, but it is powerful enough to take out a 252 HP Bronzong without much effort.

    Although Fake Out is present on the moveset, Surf is more often used on the opening turn. After all, preventing a move by fake out isn't nearly as good as preventing a move by fainting the opponent. Fake Out however, is vital to get around some of the more dangerous Pokemon.

    Examples of Fake Out usage:
    -When the opponent also runs a Fake Out user (eg. Infernape 4, Dewgong 3)
    -When one can be KO'd by Politoed's Surf while the other will survive a Double Surf (eg. Rapidash 4 + Escavalier 4 Pair)
    -When one has Trick Room (eg. Slowking 4)
    -to provide cover for Politoed to switch out (eg. Kingdra 4)

    Grass Knot was chosen as my Grass Move of choice. +1 Grass Knots are able to 2HKO Vaporeon, and they can OHKO Pokemon like Walrein, Lapras, Suicune, and Milotic, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Wailord, which I find more appealing than the healing factor of Giga Drain. Giga Drain is a lot better for dealing with Lanturn, however.

    Ice Beam is for Grass and Dragon coverage.

    Kingdra @ Life Orb ***Ryuuseigun
    Trait: Swift Swim
    IVs: 31/23/29/31/31/31
    EVs: 60 Atk / 252 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Surf
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Protect
    - Waterfall

    Kingdra is the backup Swift Swimmer. It was one of the four Kingdras that was used for the 613 Battle Hall Record. I changed the EVs a bit so it now has 196 Speed EVs which allows it to outrun Scarfed Manectric when in the Rain, and thus everything in the Battle Subway save for a few other Swift Swim users (Seismitoad 3,4 and Floatzel 1,2,3,4). Dragon Pulse chosen over Draco Meteor for reliability. Protect is given to Kingdra, mostly as a way to help handle Trick Room situations a bit better.

    Waterfall is used as the 4th move for the sake of having some physical offense aside from Scizor. With the Rain going, along with the Life Orb, Waterfall does pretty respectable damage to things like Blissey, who would just sit there and soak up Surfs without any problem otherwise.

    Scizor @ Bug Gem ***LunaticRed
    Trait: Technician
    IVs: 31/31/24/17/31/24
    EVs: 180 HP / 254 Atk / 4 SDef / 72 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - SuperPower
    - Protect

    When initially running this team, I had a Jolteon for the 4th spot. Then I remembered about 40 battles into my very first run with the team that it would make my team heavily Ferrothorn weak. I then switched it for a Bisharp.

    I got to about 100 wins twice before losing with Bisharp, finding the 4x Fighting weak to be an extreme liability against Legendary trainers. I then swapped for the Scizor you see.

    72 Speed EVs gives my Scizor 91 Speed which allows it to outrun Base 70s. In addition, my Scizor is just barely able to take a 75% Surf from +1 Ludicolo, taking at most 165 damage. I've found that Scizor fills in the holes in the team very nicely. It's a safe switch against Grass and Poison moves which can be trouble for my leads, it demolishes Ice Types, and keeps the team from collapsing under Trick Room. Bullet Punch doesn't need any explanation. Superpower is useful against Regice and Empoleon. Protect is a must, as Scizor is the only one that doesn't resist Water on the team. Bug Bite is powered by a Bug Gem. The extra strength on Bug Bite is very useful when dealing with enemy Water Types amongst other things. There could be something else I could use instead of a Bug Gem for Scizor, but I haven't really done much experimenting with it, and stuck with the Gem.

    After getting to ~190 twice, then 320 wins prior to this record, I felt that I had a winner of a team with Scizor as my 4th.

    Team Overview:

    Drizzle + Swift Swim on the same team? I could be Banned.

    When initially thinking about making a Drizzle team for Double Subway, I kept deciding that I'd have troubles with things like Ferrothorn, auto-weather and Trick Room and wrote it off as a team that wouldn't make it too far. Then kind of put it aside as the VGC season started.

    With this year's VGC winding to a close, I decided that worrying about the team's flaws was getting nowhere and to just make the team and see how things go. I found most of the theorized issues weren't as difficult to handle as I thought, while opponent Swift Swim users floated up to being the biggest threat to the team.

    Many of the opponent trainers stand no chance against this team. Trainers like Hikers, Black Belts, and Battle Girls are essentially free wins. Many other trainers are often down 2 or 3 Pokemon by the time Politoed or Ludicolo are taken down. As the team gets going right from the start, it is very important to pay attention to the opponent's trainer class, in order keep a step ahead of the opponent. Not paying attention can get you into pretty unpleasant situations.

    It averages about 15 minutes to get through a set of 7 trainers. Which is an improvment over my Battle Frontier Trick Room team that averaged about 18.

    Trouble Trainers:
    Legend Trainers (Gentlemen, Socialites, Veterans)
    As many would tell you, the Legendary Pokemon trainers in this gen are no joke. They have a much larger variety when it comes to offense sets, and support sets compared to what they had in 4th Gen. Protect, Icy Wind, a single Regigigas with Wide Guard, and a single Cresselia with Trick Room can go a long way in causing issues to the team.

    Trick Room Teams (Harlequins)
    Not quite as dangerous as I originally thought they would be, but they are still worth a mention. A lot of their non-Trick Room Pokemon are water weak, and a lot of their Trick Room users can be handled fairly easily with Fake Out. In cases when they bring two Trick Room users, I find it better not to use Fake Out, and just attack. Most of their TR users can't do much offensively, and sometimes they will both try to use Trick Room and cancel each other out.
    The most dangerous lead they can have would be Cofagrigus + Guts Hariyama, but I've only ever ran into that once (and would have lost if I didn't get a bit of luck).

    Water Teams (Fishermen)
    Water Pokemon don't do too well against each other. I have an advantage over them with Ludicolo, but it's really the only defense I have. If Ludicolo gets taken out it can get a bit tricky to handle them.

    Hail Teams (Ice Workers)
    A classic on Trainer Threat lists. Snow Cloak, Blizzards, and Sheer Colds are no fun. Abomasnows will cancel out my rain. But another way to look at it is that my Politoed gives me a way to cancel out their Hail. Between dousing out their Hail, and having Scizor going on a Bullet Punch rampage, these trainers become a lot more managable. It's always a big worry for me if Scizor gets taken out by Blizzard freezes though.

    Rain Teams (Parasol Ladies)
    Take the Fishermen's team, and remove a lot of the not so dangerous Pokemon, and adding in some Electric Types, and you get the Parasol Lady. The most threatening trainer to this team. They pack a lot of Pokemon with Water Absorb and Swift Swim, along with the usage of Thunder which closes the offensive strength gap compared to Fishermen against my team.

    My team still wins out against them, but it doesn't take much for them to turn the tides.

    Trouble Pokemon

    Weather Changers:

    Hippowdon: The Pokemon itself isn't a problem to my team, but the loss of rain can give the opponent an opportunity to try something.

    Tyranitar: Since some of the Tyranitars have Speed EVs, it's a bit more dangerous to face than Hippowdon. All my Pokemon have attacks that can hit it hard however.

    Abomasnow: The most dangerous auto-weather. Hail is more of a problem than Sandstorm is, and the Pokemon that benefit from it are more difficult for me to handle. Scizor is the only thing on my team really keeping Ice trainers in check.

    Wide Guard:

    Regigigas 4: The main problem with Regigigas is that they are only used by Legendary Trainers. So whenever one shows up as a lead I have to be aware of a potential threat of Wide Guard.

    Bastiodon 4: Just be aware it has it. It's the most common Wide Guard user.

    Bastiodon 1, Machamp 1, Mr. Mime 2, Throh 1: Rarely show up so they don't matter too much.

    Mienshao 4: Will always use Hi Jump Kick instead (and get itself murdered by 2x Surf)

    Swift Swim:

    Kingdra: The easiest way to handle Lead Kingdra is to Fake Out, and switch to Kingdra on the first turn, then take them out. Watch out for Kingdra 2 who runs a Haban Berry, which will allow it to take a Dragon Pulse and OHKO back.

    Ludicolo: They aren't really weak to anything, so you just have to hit them harder than they hit you. Fortunately, Ludicolo 1,2,3 don't really have much offensive strength. Scizor can easily defeat them with Bug Bite, but has to watch out for Ludicolo 4, which can outrun and OHKO with Hydro Pump, and Ludicolo 2 who has Surf.

    Seismitoad: Seismitoad 3 and 4 can outspeed my Kingdra, and they run Poison attacks which hurt Ludicolo quite a bit. But since they are 4x Grass weak, and Water neutral, they are easily taken out.

    Floatzel: Will always be faster than my Pokemon, but they are the least dangerous Swift Swimmers, due to lack of secondary STAB.


    Manectric 4: Outruns Ludicolo and Politoed. Leads with Thunder for an OHKO. Which can get pretty annoying at times

    Lanturn: Grass Knot is a measley 40 Power against them, and they like throwing Thunder Waves around. They are run in water teams so their ability to cripple Ludicolo makes them dangerous.

    Vaporeon 4: Water Absorb + Signal Beam is a pain for Ludicolo.

    Regice: Special Wall. Takes Surfs like a champ and can get troublesome to handle at times. Especially when Regice is throwing around Thunder Waves or Icy Wind while I try to deal with opponent legendaries.

    Blissey 4: Minimize Blissey is very annoying. If it shows up, and Scizor is already KO'd, it has a good shot at beating me. Fortunately, that has yet to happen.

    Ferrothorn: Walls everything except Scizor. Fortunately, they usually just sit there and do nothing since none of them have Power Whip, and the CPU AI in BW has forgotten how to use Gyro Ball properly. Since Ferrothorn 2 has rest, it usually requires me to bring in Scizor ASAP to take it out. Ferrothorn 1 runs Thunder Wave which is a pain, but you usually only ever see them from Workers, who are largely water/grass weak, so they don't matter much.

    Trick Room: Addressed when talking about Harlequins. Outside of Trick Room teams, they will still try it at just about any opportunity, since my leads outrun almost everything. This can end up with Scizor being the fastest thing in Trick Room, allowing the team to maintain function.

    How I lost:
    vs Worker Hayes

    He leads with Ferrothorn and a Gigalith

    I already know that the Ferrothorn is Ferrothorn 1, which isn't too dangerous aside from its Thunder Wave spam.

    I double Surf and take out Gigalith, and Ludicolo is hit with Thunder Wave.
    A Hippowdon is sent out. Killing off my Rain.

    I know that the Ferrothorn will Thunder Wave Politoed, and don't really want to get my reserve Pokemon paralyzed, so I go for another Double Surf.

    Hippowdon is taken out, but not before hitting Ludicolo with Crunch, putting it at 61HP. Ferrothorn uses Thunder Wave as expected.

    Excadrill is sent out, and I probably wished that I didn't finish off that Hippowdon there, although I didn't know at the time.

    Both of my Pokemon are fairly damaged, and they are both Paralyzed. I decide to swap both of them out. Politoed could return and reset my Rain, while Ludicolo could try to put a Fake Out to good use.

    Kingdra is sent in for Politoed and Scizor for Ludicolo. I was thinking that whatever Excadrill decided to use, I should be able to take it, then bring Politoed back on the turn after to wrap up the battle. The Excadrill goes for the Drill Run on Kingdra.

    Drill Run is only 80, so Kingdra should take it easily. Then I watch as the health bar goes further than I thought it should have. All the way to zero along with words that I probably didn't want to be seeing here.

    "Kingdra fainted!"

    No critical necessary. Apparanty Sand Force + Soft Sand allows Excadrill 1 to guarantee OHKO my Kingdra.

    I send back in Politoed to bring the rain back and reduce Excadrill's offense, and act as a Decoy as I throw a Superpower at Excadrill. It survives in the red, and Ferrothorn Thunder Waves my Scizor.

    I bring out my Ludicolo. I have a bit of a bad feeling of being fully paralyzed, and went for a Fake Out and Bullet Punch on Excadrill.

    The Fake Out goes off and Scizor is indeed fully paralyzed while Ferrothorn puts a Sandstorm back up.

    Now it's do or die. Scizor needs to get off its Bullet Punch or else I'm probably done for.

    "Scizor is paralyzed! It can't move!"

    And it's over.

    "Excadrill uses Rock Slide!"

    Ludicolo avoided the attack!
    Scizor avoided the attack!

    Or not?

    Ludicolo uses Ice Beam!
    ...On Ferrothorn.

    An unexpected double miss by the CPU, but since I wasn't expecting something like that to happen, I didn't target the Excadrill on this turn with Ice Beam. Even so, Scizor still has a shot at this.

    "Scizor is paralyzed! It can't move!"

    Scizor proceeds to be fully paralyzed for the third in a row and the battle is over as a Drill Run and Iron Head finishes off my Scizor and Ludicolo. a 4-2 situation turned around just like that. I think the turning point to the match was that double switch I made. I might have gotten a little overconfident of the situation which led to me losing my Kingdra. I somehow convinced myself upon seeing the Excadrill that it would do something like Poison Jab or Dig, completely overlooking its 4th moveset that had neither of those moves.

    The loss leaves me with a record of 828 wins. Overall, I had a bit of luck in that I didn't get haxed out sooner. Scizor only ever got frozen by Blizzard once in all the battles, and defrosted just in time to win that battle. I never really got any BrightPowder hax, and rarely got fully paralyzed aside from the one where I lost. There were a few battles that ended up with a narrow victory every 100~200 battles or so, but aside from that there wasn't much else. Thank god for the severe cut to hax items in the Battle Subway. Because I'm almost certain a team like this wouldn't get anywhere close to 800 without it.

    Battle Subway Super Double Battle
    R Inanimate (828) - Politoed, Ludicolo, Kingdra, Scizor



    These are a couple various Battle Videos with this team. I think the Last two are for the record run. And the loss video is placed separately below.

    Battle 829: 93-86274-17302

    Oh, if you're wondering who this is, suddenly dropping an 800+ record in the topic, I'm TRE's brother. I used to share his account to post my records. Since I actually have an account on Smogon now, I'm posting this myself instead of through my brother's account.
  2. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    Good job! :P I remember last time I saw you you were just at like 440 or so haha. 828 is pretty high!
  3. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 20, 2005
    No, 828 is not pretty high, it´s the kind of "crushing everyone else´s dream to get to #1"...

    I was like, well, what´s the number? Where´s the number? Then I read the whole text and there it was...my initial reaction was "awwwww f-word!".

    Heh, but congrats man, that´s an awesome record.

    The second part. I already knew TRE had a brother and that he played in the VGC (also last year IIRC), so that means you two Pokémon playing siblings have quite a comparative advantage over the rest of us, as you can play two streaks simultaneously and then post the higher record. I have no problem with that, I actually bet everyone would like to have such a close person to play Pokémon with them...

    But now that you officially have an account here, a problem with distinguishing between your records arose. I think everyone will agree that we should start listing your records as two separate persons, "TRE" and "TRE´s brother" (haha sorry I meant "R Inanimate"), it would only be fair.

    So what I need from you two is to post which of those records on the list were achieved by whom. Now that I will probably add the last gen records into the first post soon, it would be nice to know which ones of those were achieved by whom as well. But the past records is your call, I leave that decision to you two, I mean the decision to name the past records. Obviously I´d like you to post all your future records separately, from this point on.

    Thanks in advance.

    @ShinyPoké25: OK fixed.

    EDIT: Everyone is allowed to post teams and team ideas (legal), it´s stated in the first post that those records don´t have to make the list. But my advice is, unless you´re a theorymon-master, the best way to test whether it´s working or not is to just play the Subway. The Subway is substantially harder right from the start than the Frontier Tower was and the AI will show you very quickly how it will end your streaks and what you have to change.
  4. DrDimentio


    Aug 29, 2009
    Battle Subway - Super Single Record: 129

    Team: Whimsicott, Rotom-W, Drapion (btw, please delete my old 77 streak)



    Also, a picture of a Battle Video screen showing I used this team, very shortly before the battle in which I lost:

    (that was the battle against the idiot Excadrill which I nearly lost to because of its stupid move decisions)

    Yeah, this is the 'quirky' team I mentioned... not a very impressive streak, but it was fun to try something a little bit different.

    1. Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
    Nickname: Whimsic*nt (uncensored)
    Ability: Prankster
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Def
    IVs: 31 / x / 31 / x / 31 / 31
    Lv 50 Stats: 167 / x / 106 / x / 139 / 136
    - Taunt
    - Charm
    - Worry Seed
    - Memento

    ~ Basically a standard crippling set as used by Jumpman and others. Worry Seed is fun to use against things like Pure Power Medicham, Sand Force Excadrill, Prankster Tornadus/Thundurus, etc.
    ~ Some battles go like this: Foe uses Blizzard / Hydro Pump / another 5 PP move, I use Memento or Taunt depending on the expected set... send in Rotom-W and Spite so it can't use said move, then set up Drapion easily on weaker moves. Usually no Trick because I need as many turns as possible.

    2. Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Nickname: Spaz
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Speed, 4 Sp. Def
    IVs: 31 / x / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
    Lv 50 Stats: 157 / x / 127 / 125 / 128 / 151
    - Trick
    - Thunder Wave
    - Flash
    - Spite

    ~ Nickname explanation: Well, Rotom is 'Motor' backwards... so 'Spaz' makes sense not just because of its hyperactive animation.
    ~ This is the unconventional team member, especially since it carries Spite.
    ~ Rotom-W isn't as bulky as the standard Psychic-type Trick users, but its resistances and weaknesses fit in nicely with Whimsicott and Drapion.
    ~ It conveniently has a maximum speed of 151, which is just enough to outspeed Guillotine Pinsir with a Choice Scarf.
    ~ I actually very rarely used Trick in this streak. It was mainly Flash, followed by Spite and Thunder Wave, then Trick least often.

    3. Drapion @ Black Sludge
    Nickname: Hax Return
    Ability: Battle Armor
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP, 196 Sp. Def, 56 Def, 4 Speed
    IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / x / 31 / 31
    Lv 50 Stats: 177 / 110 / 137 / x / 132 / 116
    - Crunch
    - Acupressure
    - Substitute
    - Rest

    ~ Same old Drapion set inspired by Jumpman. Anything that needs to be said about it has already been said... it's certainly a huge advantage being able to Acupressure behind a Sub.
    ~ Proof that the game hates me: When I was in a rush to leave the house one time, I was just trying to finish off a battle with my completely set-up Drapion... but of all things to be sent out last, it's:
    [I]869 | Umbreon | Careful | Chesto Berry | Curse | Trump Card | Payback | Rest | HP/Def[/I]
    Also, another time I had to finish a battle quickly so I could leave to catch a bus, but this was the last Pokemon:
    [I]447 | Ferrothorn | Careful | Chesto Berry | Rest | Payback | Gyro Ball | Curse | HP/SpD[/I]

    Unfortunately, some of this team's tricks (such as wasting Earthquake PP with Spite) depend on the AI using common sense... which it often doesn't. Example: Excadrill using Poison Jab rather than Earthquake against Drapion.

    How I lost: I played badly against a lead SD Garchomp... which is annoying as I had no trouble setting up on that same one earlier in the streak. Maybe I should keep a log of my battles like Peterko does... basically I worried about the idea of Garchomp Struggling itself to death before Drapion had enough boosts to be safe against whatever came in next. Somehow I failed to reason properly and didn't even take into account that it would obviously boost its Attack back up with SD if I didn't Trick it directly after Whimsicott's Taunt. One minor lapse in concentration or logic can end a streak easily in the Subway.

    I hate the feeling of demotivation after losing a fairly big streak. I'm not sure what I'll try now, and I honestly hate using Drapion purely because of how boring it is (especially stalling out Curse Umbreons and Ferrothorns). I can't test out Multiscale Dragonite due to a lack of DW access, and would rather come up with something more original if possible. Congrats to Jumpman for his impressive No.1 streak, and to R Inanimate for his absurd Doubles record.
  5. Team Rocket Elite

    Team Rocket Elite Data Integration Thought Entity
    is a Pokemon Researcher

    May 3, 2005
    That's actually a pretty simple issue. All of the records are R Inanimate's. I haven't played a single battle in any of his reported streaks. If I do end up with a streak of my own better than his (which is kinda tough, you know >_>), I'll definitely distinguish it from his. As for names on past records, you can change all of them to being by R Inanimate.
  6. VaporeonIce


    Mar 11, 2010
    I feel like I've been living a lie for years...
  7. Dark Arceus

    Dark Arceus

    Feb 26, 2011
    Is it me or once you get to the 700's does it get kind of slow?

    My Garchomp,Terrakion, and Miscelanious other (Hydreigon, Scizor, Volcarono, and Starmie interchangebly) always just swept through team after team. And these are just non-rng'd, non-ev trained, pokemon. The only thing that can be said is I used standard movesets and proper natures.

    The reason I lost at battlle 746?

    Answer: Abomasnow.
    (This is their final poke)
    Ice Shard crits Garchomp
    Terrakion Miss's with Rock Slide and I get hit by Wood Hammer (I think)
    Ice Shard Crits next turn KO'ing Terrakion.
    Abomasnow uses Ice Shard and takes out 1/4 of Volcaronas HP
    HeatWave misses.... (This sucked)
    Ice Shard crits and I am at about 1/3.
    HeatWave.....misses (How????)
    Ice Shard KO's

    Result: How the crap does Heat Wave miss 2 times in a row.

    Edit: I can get proof if wanted but expect it to take a while. No interest in White currently just playing my old Blue version.
  8. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010
    why didnt you use close combat against the abomasnow?
  9. Dark Arceus

    Dark Arceus

    Feb 26, 2011

    I had accidently got rid of it earlier for a move: I think the whole set was Rock Slide, Earthquake, Quick Attack, and X-Scissors. At somepoint I was trying to teach it X-Scissors because of all the Psychics I was fighting and I just guess I wasn't paying atention.
  10. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010
    well.... why didnt u use xscissor then?
  11. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 11, 2011
    Or Bug Buzz with Volcarona, for that matter?
  12. Dark Arceus

    Dark Arceus

    Feb 26, 2011
    For Terakion.
    Dunno, I know for sure Rock Slide would OHKO but I didnt think about using X-Scissors.

    As for Volcarona.
    I can obviously (Sarcasm) predict 2 heat wave misses in a row.
    And its 4x supereffective so it seemed more logical.
  13. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010
    if i were you, after seeing the first heat wave miss, i wouldve gone for bug buzz... since after a hax... there comes a TRAIN of haxxes ;)
  14. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    @Dark Arceus: Sorry to say, I don't think anyone with decent knowledge of Subway will believe that you got a streak of 746 with your team without any proof. I personally don't know if I will even believe it with picture proof, because of the so many things wrong with the team and even the battle of how you lost (and then you even add in that they aren't EV-trained... not RNG'd for IVs, sure, but not EV-trained, impossible).

    I don't think I'll spend the time to state out everything wrong with your streak and team, but just so you know, every reply you make, you reveal more about how little you know.

    EDIT: You know, maybe I will say one thing: 0 Attack EVs Quiet Abomasnow Ice Shard on 0 HP IV, 0 Def IV, Timid/Modest Volcarona with no HP/Def EVs -> max 15%. Tell me how it can 3HKO Volcarona with only 1 crit. Even after hail damage with the worst possible situation, Volcarona should have (100 - 15 - 8.25 - 30 - 8.25 - 15 - 8.25 = ) 15% health left... unless of course Volcarona had previous damage from the other two pokemon that you didn't mention, but then you said that Volcarona had about 1/3 left. Unless the last Ice Shard was a crit (which you didn't say it was) and it was actually a little bit less than 1/3, that's not possible.
  15. Team Rocket Elite

    Team Rocket Elite Data Integration Thought Entity
    is a Pokemon Researcher

    May 3, 2005
    Bug Buzz can't miss and OHKOs Abomasnow (after it already took recoil damage so there's no threat of a Focus Sash). While you can't predict Heat Wave missing, you should recognize the possibility and go with the 100% safe Bug Buzz.
  16. Dark Arceus

    Dark Arceus

    Feb 26, 2011

    In hind site I definetly should have Bug Buzz'd.

    But to Chinese Dood:

    If you read my earlier post you know I can and will provide proof of my win streak in a uncertain amount of time. I am currently enjoying blue and thinking about going through all my games chronologically (Fail spell probably). Give me a while and when I load up white again I will take a pic, upload to my computer, and post here.

    But untill then drop it. I don't want any arguements about the legitimacy.

    Also for my next attempt I am curious on using a better version of my Scizor. Is he better as a Swords Dancer? I tried U-turning scizor every once in a while but it didn't seem to do much.
  17. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    Oh, don't worry about it. I hope you aren't doing that any more quickly because of something I might have said, because I don't really matter that much, or shouldn't anyway. :P So just take your time.

    From my experience, Scizor should either be Choice Banded or Swords Dance in Subway. Swords Dance gives much more assurance for sweeps usually. CB is really to finish things off with BP or scouting with U-Turn while doing massive damage. Swords Dance is usually better.
  18. popprocks


    May 16, 2011
    Hooray for cutting 70! By 0. But I hit 70!


    Gyarados "IdrA" (Because it starts most of my matches with Taunt)
    @ Leftovers
    Adamant 252hp/252atk/4speed
    23/13/22/x/30/23 (Wow, those are lazy IVs even by my low standards)
    -Dragon Dance

    I open with this to get a good intimidate on whatever comes in, just on the offchance I need to switch on a physical hit. Intimidate is wonderful, as my Gyarados has lived thunderpunches from a dragonite as a result of its semi-bulky EV spread and intimidate. I also taunt all the common curse/stockpile/2 pure stalling meganiums/mono-attackers with nothing good that hits Gyarados. A pretty good number of battles start and end with Gyarados taunting some kind of pokemon that requires setting up, dragon dancing to +6/+6 with max hp lefties recovery and natural bulk, and sweeping. Gyarados is especially useful for taking out the enormous number of water pokemon that exist in the game because they rarely have anything to take out Gyarados.

    Volcarona "JaeDong" (Really powerful, but often dies/gets haxed)
    @ Life Orb
    Flame Body
    Modest 4hp/252spatk/252speed
    -Bug Buzz
    -Quiver Dance

    Volcarona is able to set-up and sweep much fewer teams than Gyarados. However, it is crucial in taking out many threads to the rest of my team, such as pure ice pokemon, and pure-physical/mixed walls (metagross, scizor, skarmory, ferrothorn, registeel, Slowbro/king). Volcarona is often very useful as a revenge killer because its natural bulk allows it to take many neutral hits (even physical hits with Intimidate) and set up a single quiver dance. Just 1 quiver dance with life orb gives it the ability to OHKO a great number of pokemon. The Volcarona is also the backup to my final pokemon, a banded Garchomp, because frankly I like to Outrage everything. Of course, only steel types resist dragon moves, and steel types get stomped by Volcarona due to nearly every steel type not having a sub-type that resists fire, steel types tending to be much slower than Volcarona, and steel types tending to favor physical defense. Almost everything that can take a banded Outrage from Garchomp really well, gets MELTED by Volcarona. So most of the time if I am locked into outrage and the 2nd/3rd pokemon that comes in survives an Outrage and kills Garchomp, I can almost always go into Volcarona for the revenge without a problem.

    Garchomp “Flash” (Beats everything easily)
    @ Choice Band
    Sand Veil
    Jolly 4hp/252atk/252speed
    -Outrage (aka skillrage)
    -Fire Fang

    Garchomp absorbs electric/rock attacks aimed at Gyarados/Volcarona, and quite frankly it is able to out-speed AND OHKO a completely unfair number of pokemon with Outrage. Almost every time I swap into Garchomp to take a rock/electric/revenge kill, I just Outrage unless I know I'm going to get stalled or they're on their last pokemon and EQ will be super effective. I often don't risk getting locked into an Earthquake when a flying type pokemon can potentially switch in, because I have no ice/electric/rock moves on my entire team, and Volcarona is weak to Flying. So, my best option when a flying pokemon comes in on a banded EQ is to fodder out another pokemon and to come back in and Outrage anyway. So, I avoid the possible trouble and just Outrage constantly. It works. Frankly, banded Garchomp in Subway just steamrolls anything without strong bulk, and Garchomp is naturally bulky enough that it can take some good hits. And if anything goes wrong, Volcarona is usually just right to revenge kill.

    This team basically just functions on the Gyarados/Volcarona set-up sweeps, the Gyarados/Garchomp defensive synergy, and the Garchomp/Volcarona offensive synergy. This is literally the very first streak I did on a team after I bred a Volcarona to use, so hopefully there’s more to come.

    Also, props to the people to gave me some advice earlier in this thread. Earlier I asked for some advice with my 57-streak lucario/gyarados/garchomp team, and some of the replies got me thinking, which eventually lead to the idea to swap out Lucario for Volcarona, and to use Gyarados as a lead. So that's cool.
  19. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    I was told not to post bad streaks, so I'll post a decent one instead!

    Super Doubles Train: 99



    Politoed @ choice specs
    ivs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
    evs: 204/0/52/252/0/0
    stats: 191/74/102/156/120/90

    Ice Beam
    Focus Blast

    Toxicroak @ leftovers
    Dry Skin
    ivs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
    evs: 4/252/0/0/0/252
    stats: 159/173/85/90/85/137

    Drain Punch
    Fake Out
    Sucker Punch

    Latios @ lum berry
    ivs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
    evs: 4/0/0/252/0/252
    stats: 156/89/100/182/130/178

    Dragon Pulse
    Grass Knot

    Kingdra @ life orb
    Swift Swim
    ivs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
    evs: 60/252/4/0/4/188
    stats: 158/161/116/95/116/129

    Dragon Dance

    Yeah this is just a boring rain team. Politoed and Toxicroak are perfect partners. Politoed just sits there spamming surf while Toxicroak supports him with fake out, sucker punch and taunt. The rest of Politoed's moveset is filler but I found myself turning to them more often towards the end of my streak for some reason. Ice Beam for dragons, Psychic for opposing Toxicroak and Poliwrath, and Focus Blast for Ferrothorn, Abomasnow and Tyranitar (usually not required because of Toxicroak). Drain Punch may seem weak but the damage output is usually enough and the recovery really helps Toxicroak survive, especially in unison with surf, rain and leftovers. Taunt helps against trick room and status, and it really screws over anything that relies solely on non-offensive moves (mandibuzz, spiritomb, etc.) I'm tempted to put Helping Hand in there somewhere but the other moves are just too important.

    Latios is holding a lum berry because kingdra holds life orb, and expert belt and wise glasses are just crap. Lum berry has helped out numerous times and the loss of power isn't important because Latios is being used as a backup to my leads (the opponents it targets are usually weakened by Politoed and Toxicroak so Latios merely finishes them off). The only downside to Latios is that Politoed's surf is a 3-4HKO, though thankfully this never caused too much trouble. Life orb gives Kingdra a much needed power boost. I only ever used waterfall and outrage. Protect and dragon dance were untouched filler moves. I couldn't think of what else to give them but Kingdra only needs waterfall and outrage anyway.

    I was fortunate not to suffer hax on the way to my final battle, but eventually something stupid would occur and it ultimately cost me my streak:

    Battle 100 vs. Socialite Saty (legend trainer):

    Saty sends out Terrakion and Thunderus; I send out Politoed and Toxicroak.

    Toxicroak uses fake out on Thunderus, Thunderus flinches, Terrakion earthquakes (Politoed at 140hp, Toxicroak at 13hp), Politoed surfs, Terrakion and Thunderus are both dead, Toxicroak recovers to 80hp after surf, rain and leftovers.

    Saty sends out Raikou and Articuno.

    Toxicroak suckerpunchs Raikou (air balloon pops), Raikou thunders Politoed to death, Articuno uses an ice gem boosted blizzard to kill Toxicroak.

    I send out Latios and Kingdra.

    Kingdra waterfall Raikou to death, Latios thunderbolts Articuno to about 30% hp, Articuno uses blizzard, crit on Latios (dead), freeze on Kingdra (71hp).

    Next turn, Kingdra is frozen solid and Articuno finishes Kingdra off with blizzard.


    I'm still shocked that I lost this. I got off to a good start and then the game decides to bless Articuno with a crit (not sure if the crit mattered) and a freeze on the same turn. I don't think I would have done anything different during this battle in hindsight. It's just a shame that I just missed out on 100 wins (and the berry at 105 wins). Oh well.

    Although this isn't good enough to get on the list, I also acheived a streak of 62 wins on the super multi train with the same team (by myself using a ds lite and a 3ds), but with the Scizor from my 94 win singles streak instead of Kingdra (team 1 = Politoed and Scizor, team 2 = Toxicroak and Latios). I actually prefer multi over double, but I don't think I'll play it for a while because it is just so slow!
  20. Cradily


    May 15, 2010
    Agreed, multi's a lot of fun. When its played well, you can get a great lead and dominate the CPU by making it a 2 v 1 in just two turns. However the CPU can do the same to you...
  21. Zacchaeus

    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 5, 2009
    With my new team, I've hit 56 and then 53 in a row but I keep losing to the dumbest hax, and the worst part is that it's the same stupid stuff I lost to with my old team that peaked 132.

    For example: at 53, I was down to 2 Pokés while they were on their last Poké which was Starmie, the most evil piece of garbage in the Subway. Starmie uses a 70% accuracy Ice Beam, critical hit, faints my 2nd Poké, so I send in my last one. Starmie uses Surf, flinch, uses Surf, I lose. The chance of losing to Starmie flinch hax is so slim, let alone losing to it twice. I swear this RNG is terrible -.-

    Also: Since I know Garchomp is a fairly common Poké in Subway, how would using a Rough Skin Garchomp sound? Particularly one with Rough Skin and Rocky Helmet in all likelihood
  22. Dark Arceus

    Dark Arceus

    Feb 26, 2011
    I will definetly provide proof when I can but I just need to relax and play thorugh the originals. My High School causes to much stress and gives out to much work.

    When thinking about Scizor that was definetly the route I wanted to take. Though I do see issues with each. While Choice Band Bullet Punch Techinichian (Mispelled probably) is powerful it dosn't feel like I always get the KOs I need. Might see better results soon because I am learning how to RNG and plan on actually EV'ing one. Then the Swords Dance set is powerful, and allows to switch moves but seems that if it takes to much damage during its swords dance it can only get off a bullet punch for a potential KO. Bear with me on my assumptions because I don't use damage calculators just go off own experience.

    Thinking about a Scizor with Swords Dance, Bullet Punch, Bug Bite and Superpower. Should the EVs be 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Sp ? Or should I try a bit of bulk and drop some attack?
  23. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    In Gen IV, the typical set would be to run minimum 100 Speed EVs go get to 98 speed to outspeed 0 speed Heatran which has 97 speed (none of the Heatrans in Gen IV had any speed EVs). In Subway, 3 of the 4 Heatrans still run no speed, so that might still be a good minimum to outspeed so you can get the Superpower KO before it can fire move you.

    This is assuming flawless Speed IV of course. Otherwise, get whatever speed EVs to have at least 98 speed at level 50. Max attack and then the rest in HP is probably the way to go since most of your kills will be using Bullet Punch anyway.

    Ice beam has 100% accuracy. At first I thought you meant to say Blizzard, but then the rest of your description indicates that you were fighting:
    861 | Starmie | Timid | King's Rock | Surf | Psychic | Thunderbolt | Ice Beam | Spd/SpA
    (It's the only one with a flinch item, and actually none of the Starmies in subway has Blizzard anyway)

    So yeah, Ice beam is 100% accurate.

    Rough Skin Garchomp with Rocky Helmet seems inferior (in terms of effectiveness in usage) to Ferrothorn. Garchomp has amazing attack, so your item should take advantage of that via Sash (to allow it one dance), or Lum (for Outrage), or other items that will make it easier to sweep. It is not meant for passive damage via taking hits (like Ferrothorn is). Rough Skin is a fine option to have over sand veil for the guaranteed passive damage if it is released, but Garchomp is meant to deal damage.
  24. Skore


    Apr 24, 2011
    He abuses Flash (Aaaaah!).
  25. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 22, 2004
    So I am planning on making a BF team... I've been browsing through this thread and I noticed some Pokemon with 244 HP / 4 Def / 4 SDef; is this the optimal spread rather than max HP?

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