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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. popprocks

    popprocks

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    I'm pretty sure Darmanitan2 (life orb with flare blitz and superpower) would cause an almost guaranteed loss if it was the opponent's lead.

    Unless the calculations are different than my expectations, Darmanitan2 will be faster a ferrothorn, chansey, AND eelektross, and even worse than that, it can OHKO the Chansey and Ferrothorn lead. And a LO flare blitz should also be at least a 2HKO on Eeleketross, which means he can't switch it in on the expected flare blitz.

    Since I don't think the AI would use Swagger (which that moveset has) when it can OHKO the opponent's lead, the best play at that point is just to let his ferrothorn get killed, hope Eelektross doesn't get OHKO by LO flare blitz, and to revenge kill to force a really dangerous 2v2 situation. From there, something like a Mold Breaker Haxorus (EQ on Eelektross and hits Chansey really, really hard) could probably clean up without the opponent even needing a 3rd.
  2. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    ... haha, so Eelektross will probably win from the pp-stall war by getting to +6Def to tank those shadow punches and hammer arms while subbing?

    I'm currently using this team (just started) and I don't know how how far it'd get, but on paper it seems like it should do decently well:

    Whimsicott / Prankster / Careful @ Sash - Taunt / Charm / Worry Seed / Memento
    Uxie / Levitate / Bold @ Scarf - Trick / Twave / Stealth Rock / Memento
    Venomoth / Tinted Lens / Modest @ Leftovers - Quiver Dance / Signal Beam / Substitute / Disable

    Whimsicott and Uxie should be obvious so I won't go into detail.

    Venomoth with Tinted Lens and Quiver Dance together allows for most things to be hit for neutral by signal beam (so yay mono-bug!). Signal Beam instead of Bug Buzz because of the unfortunate potential presence of Soundproof pokemon.

    Disable is an interesting move. After choice locking opponent into an attacking move, Disable means Venomoth gets 3 guaranteed rounds to Quiver Dance on the opponent's struggles, and with Whimsicott's Charm/Memento and Uxie's Memento, it's usually -4 or -6 Struggle, which Venomoth can tank fine unless multiple crits occur in a row. Of course, if Venomoth can set up without disabling, I'd go with that because sometimes opponent will faint from struggle before no longer disabled (so Venomoth is only at +3/+3, which is enough in most cases, but obviously a lot better at +6/+6). Quiver Dance is cool also, because while Whimsicott's Charm lowers attack enough for Venomoth to set up, Quiver Dance allows Venomoth herself to QD to tank special hits.

    Only trouble pokemon encountered so far -> Head Smash Rampardos (esp. the choice scarf one) and Choice Band Dragnonite... I can't fully set up on those (and I'm sure others)... usually only +1 or +2.... which is not enough to be safe at all. ... If next opponent out is a special attacker though, then Venomoth is usually ok if it has enough health, since it can sub and then disable and QD more. Otherwise, tough...

    EDIT: Actually just encountered CB nite. Venomoth got to +5/+5, but no stealth rock. Last time I went for Stealth Rock and only got +2 I think. I guess +5 without stealth rock's better than +2 with stealth rock. Dnite also got confused twice though. -6 Outrage without choice band still breaks Venomoth's sub unfortunately. Maybe I can consider re-EVing for more defensive EVs. I dunno, not sure if it's worth it (or if it's possible... probably it's possible, but that will leave +6 Signal Beam not able to OHKO a bunch of things I'm pretty sure). But o yah forgot, U-turn/Volt-Switch are also annoying.

    EDIT FINAL: Ok, in theory this would work out decently, but in practice, way too many things break Venomoth's sub due to its poor defense. Even at -4 Attack, a fair number of things can still break Venomoth's sub with their neutral STAB attack which is kind of sad. And then there's struggle... a lot of things break Venomoth's sub when at 0 Attack, so Venomoth cannot set up on struggles easily either... has to Memento or Charm first. Past few loses were due to: Flare Blitz, Brave Bird, Hyper Cutter Pinsir (have to worry seed first turn, so cannot charm twice, but I made mistake anyway because I taunted 2nd turn instead of Charm/Memento. Did not check moveset list to see that none of the X-Scissor Pinsirs have set up moves). Well, that's that.
  3. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    nice idea Dood, I wanted to try a Quive Dance-Baton Pass lead Venomoth (to Heatran) one of these days, but I´m too busy with losing in doubles :/

    There´s only 3 Pokémon capable of doing that, Venomoth, Masquerain and Smeargle. Here´s a list of Pokémon learning Baton Pass and a stat up move I did for theorymon purposes.

    BATON PASS:
    Belly Drum +6 atk: Smeargle
    Shell Smash +2 atk / -1 def / +2 spA / -1 sD / +2 spe: Smeargle, Huntail, Gorebyss
    Quiver Dance +1 spA / +1 sD / +1 speed: Smeargle, Venomoth, Masquerain
    Coil +1 acc / +1 atk / +1 def: Smeargle
    Shift Gear +1 atk / +2 speed: Smeargle
    Hone Claws +1 acc / +1 atk: Smeargle, Gligar, Ariados, Furret, Blaziken, Ninjask, Absol, Ambipom, Leavanny, Durant
    Defend Order +1 def / +1 sD: Smeargle
    Stockpile +1 def / +1 sD: Smeargle, Mawile, Drifblim
    Cosmic Power +1 def / +1 sD: Smeargle
    Tail Glow +3 spA: Smeargle, Volbeat
    Cotton Guard +3 def: Smeargle
    Amnesia +2 sD: Smeargle, Gorebyss, Girafarig, Furret

    On topic of playing, I lost at #96 against a Biker, because apparently the special Garchomp´s a dick with Scary Face but the game deciding factor was Latios rolling minimum damage against Starmie 4 with Dragon Pulse

    273 spA Dragon Pulse vs 105 sD Starmie = 132-156 dmg / 135 HP

    It means that Latios has a 12,5% chance to not OHKO Starmie234 if you roll random 85 or 86 in the damage formula, that sucks.

    And about the AI, I´ve begun to take a closer look at what it does and maaan, it really is random when able to KO both Pokémon plus it does even weirder things when I´m at 1HP like Volca using Overheat when it used Bug Buzz to bring to 1HP etc. Note that in this case Overheat got a CH on the partner Pokémon which was hit because the 1HP Pokémon was fainted by foe´s second Pokémon.

    What´s even worse is that the AI, in its "random world", switches attacks and targets between turns (attack 1 against Pokémon 1 turn 1 and attack 2 against Pokémon 2 turn 2, both attacks were OHKOs on paper)...

    Also it was funny that I faced Nursery Aide Chachi in my first battle today, #78 (just like yesterday #253) after saving and turning the game off for the night...I mean what´s the probability of that? Also faced her and the same Glaceon-Espeon lead that got me at #253, at #36, this time 4-0´d her.

    I had to smile when I faced 3 legendary trainers in a row at #46, #47 and #48 and also #52 and #53...the game likes to spam those at me...

    EDIT: only editing to say I´m using terracott-darmanitan-latios, only because I noticed beat up doing less damage than expected and I´m about to post some beat up test results in the research topic so it´d be stupid to try to hide the team...not posting the team details yet though :)

    The Beat Up test results
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3857512&postcount=2673

    Beat Up´s base power varies from 5 to 23. When Beat Up is used, for every hit, the actual Attack stat of the Beat Up user and the actual Defense stat of the defending Pokémon is used. Only the base power of each Beat Up hit varies, depending on the Pokémon inflicting damage, with the base power formula = 5 + (base Attack/10).
  4. AuraSphere

    AuraSphere

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    1. Explains the Battle Subway.
    2-3. We'll see when we get there. I haven't seen any of these yet.
    4. Hope for para hax, lol.
    5. It wasn't five minutes >:O
  5. Cradily

    Cradily

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    Regardless of quality there is also entei, bellyzard, and emboar. Blaziken is pretty solid too with fire fighting. It depends on what else you're looking for.
  6. High Roller

    High Roller

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    Made a team that has 3x Pokemon x4 weak to Ice and I face a team of Froslass/Cryogonal/Beartic/Glaceon on the third battle. Both leads had Ice Shard. AI sure knows how to make teams.


    Still won. Probably post the team tomorrow if it makes the cut.
  7. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Super Singles Streak: 101

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ leftovers
    Modest
    IVs: 31/30/31/30/31/31
    EVs: 236/0/4/248/0/20
    Stats: 155/76/128/171/127/109
    Levitate

    Thunderbolt
    Hydro Pump
    Hidden Power [Grass]
    Thunder Wave

    Scizor @ life orb
    Adamant
    IVs:31/31/31/8/31/31
    EVs: 252/252/0/0/0/6
    Stats: 177/200/120/57/100/86
    Techician

    Bullet Punch
    Bug Bite
    Superpower
    Swords Dance

    Dragonite @ lum berry
    Adamant
    IVs: 31/31/31/13/31/31
    EVs: 6/252/0/0/0/252
    Stats: 167/204/115/99/120/132
    Multiscale

    Outrage
    Dragon Dance
    Fire Punch
    Earthquake

    Pretty much exactly the same as before, except now I'm using HP grass on Rotom rather than HP ice. The reason I switched is that HP ice wasn't doing its job of killing dragons. Most of them survive it (even the 4x weak ones) and they can just 2HKO me most of the time. HP grass is more useful for killing those water/grounds (although many of them can survive it, most of them can't do much back to Rotom). Sure it leaves me walled by grass and dragon types, but who cares when Rotom can't do well against them with HP ice anyway? Besides, grass types are set up fodder for Scizor and Dragonite, and I have Thunder Wave to effectively neutralise the threat from dragons (Scizor can also set up reasonably well on the ones without fire moves).

    Other than that it works the exact same way as before. I use Rotom to try kill what I can, and switch appropriately out of what I can't. If I see a set up opportunity, I'll take it. Thunder Wave is still incredibly useful for crippling stuff and helps make up for Rotoms lack of speed investment.

    As for Rotoms EVs, 20 speed ensures I outspeed all forms of Excadrill, which has been situationally useful (I figured it was worth giving up 2 HP for). The rest are used to maximise Sp. Att and defences.

    Some Threats I Remember

    Hyper-offensive leads: Rotom still dies rather quickly to powerful choice leads even with the defence investment. How I act depends on what the lead is though I try to use them to set up if I can.

    Weezing 4: Don't laugh. If this comes out and I'm not set up, I have to pray that it picks the wrong move at the right time. Rotom can't kill it quickly enough to stop it resting and it just won't die because of stockpile and will-o-wisp. I faced it once and I only won because it rested as Scizor died to burn, giving Dragonite 3 free DDs. It still survived the Outrage easily, but thankfully it chose to toxic Dragonite (if it had used Will-O-Wisp I would have lost).

    There were probably more than this, but I don't remember what they were.

    How I lost

    I made lots of misplays during Battle 102 against Nurse Panarat (I won't put in the recovery because there was lots of it)

    I send out Rotom, she sends out Torterra.
    I switch to Dragonite, she uses Leech Seed.
    Torterra protects, I Dragon Dance.
    I Dragon Dance, Torterra Stockpiles.
    I Dragon Dance, Torterra Stockpiles.
    I Fire Punch (Torterra at about 40% HP), Torterra Stockpiles.
    Torterra Protects, I Dragon Dance.
    Torterra Protects, I Fire Punch (no effect).
    Torterra Protects (fails), I Outrage (Torterra at about 5% HP).
    Torterra Protects, I Outrage (no effect).
    Dragonite finally dies to Leech Seed damage.

    I send out Scizor.
    Scizors Swords Dances, Torterra Earthquakes (Scizor at 104 HP).
    I Bug Bite, Torterra dead.

    She send out Druddigon.
    I Bullet Punch (Druddigon at 1% HP), Druddigon Earthquakes.
    Scizor dead.

    I send out Rotom.
    I use Hidden Power.
    Druddigon dead.

    She sends out Venusaur (crap).
    I thunderwave, Venusaur Leech Seeds.
    I Hydro Pump (crit, Venusaur at about 60% HP), Venusaur fully paralyzed.
    Venusaur protects, I Hydro Pump (no effect).
    I Hydro Pump (Venusaur at 70% HP), Venusaur Substitutes.
    I Hydro Pump (sub doesn't break), Venusaur Sludge Bombs (Rotom at 60 HP).
    I Hydro Pump (sub breaks), Venusaur Sludge Bombs.
    Rotom dead.

    0-1

    I think I had the right idea using Torterra as set up bait, but maybe Scizor would have been better since it boosts attack faster than Torterra boosts defence and it has a STAB bug bite to destroy it with. Also, what the hell was I thinking using Bullet Punch instead of Bug Bite on Druddigon? Scizor is faster and could have killed it. Then I would have won for sure. Instead, I let it die and am force to hope for consecutive crits and full paralysis turns on Venusaur. Plus I still haven't got that berry yet D:<

    Also, I hate how Protect always seems to work consecutive times when the opponent spams it.

    At least I finally beat 100 though. I might have another go at the multi train now because we really do need to fill that list up don't we?

    EDIT: Almost forgot this, but I've been using the tables twash posted a page back and they've been pretty helpful. Thanks for posting them!
  8. kuladiamond

    kuladiamond

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    Battle Subway Super Singles Streak 100 Win

    A higher streak now than my other streak with Rotom-H, Bisharp, Gyarados team. Here they are inspired by Jumpman16's team:

    Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
    Careful
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpD, 4 Def
    Taunt
    Worry Seed
    Charm
    Flash

    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Bold
    EVs: 252 HP, 36 SpD, 220 Spe
    Trick
    Thunder Wave
    Flash
    Hydro Pump

    Dragonite @ Leftovers
    Adamant
    EVs: 204 HP, 252 Att, 24 Def, 28 SpD
    Dragon Dance
    Roost
    Dragon Claw
    Substitute

    Same Rotom from my previous team but is now washer, and newcomers Whimsy and Draggy. Can't help but "steal" them from Jumpman16's team, but they are so much fun to play with especially Draggy with Multi Scale. Whimsy usually taunts 1st turn, and then charm or flash on physical and special attackers respectively. Will usually get 3 turns of crippling before taunting again and then die or switch. Mistake on my Whimsy of having Flash instead of Memento. Trying to get my hands on a hoppip, but can't get them in-game. If anyone can trade me one, that would be helpful. Please PM me. Rotom-W then trick and t-wave and flash until enemy kills it or switch to Draggy depending on the moves PP of enemy. What's helpful is that Rotom-W resists Ice moves and invites other moves that draggy resists like Grass, so it makes Draggy's job easier of taking other attacks. Draggy is self-exlplanotary.

    Again, the IVs are not perfect only on specified stats. Can't be bothered to RNG. Lost to a Gardevoir with Destiny Bond at battle 101. Probably I did not realize that it used destiny bond, and proceeded to attack it. Got my Draggy to +6 Atk and Speed plus his gardy is paralyzed. So frustrating, but at least I got to triple digit : )

    Battle Video of no 98: 96-00890-41787

    Again having memento instead of flash is infinitely better, and I'm trying to find and breed male hoppip.
  9. bluemon

    bluemon

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    @atsync

    why didnt you use bugbite on druddigon? you wouldve won. druffigon has CRAP CRAP SPEED. surely scizor outspeeds it

    edit: you alreadny knew that huh? my bad
  10. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    No problem! I actually realised my mistake about 1 second after I made my selection. For a split second I thought it wouldn't matter, but then Druddigon just survived with the tinniest fraction of hp :/

    I've been thinking about it and in hindsight it was probably stupid to dry boost dragonite up so much. I probably would have beaten Torterra if I'd just attacked it after 1 dragon dance because it would have been trying to boost its defences.

    Live and learn I guess.
  11. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    I hope you also learned to carry substitute on at least one of your pokemon, and then leech seed will simply not be an issue. Plenty of Swagger/Toxic/Screech/Scary Face/etc. pokemon will also keep spamming those despite you already having a sub up.
  12. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
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    hit 47 last night in multi link with scarftoed and sashmixedra. hopefully got it locked down today x
  13. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Yeah I know. I did think about using it when I first made my team, but I decided at the time that the other moves are too useful to replace. After this loss (as well as my general hatred of the AIs incredible luck in regards to consecutive protects) I might have to reconsider. I probably get rid of fire punch on Dragonite for it, since for me it seems like the most expendable move on all of my team.
  14. ashez

    ashez

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    hi guys :) been bit busy this past week been my birthday and few family members aswell so riding the subway been pushed to back my mind lol, but got the team i posted few days back together now so guna start trying that out tonight so hopefully get a decent streak together soon :)

    still struggling with ideas for arcanine atm but has kinda been pushed to back my mind due to kinda excited about the other team i posted so arcanine is going to be my next project :)
  15. Disibio

    Disibio

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    I'm up to 35, but I swear every Pokemon in the Battle Subway has maxed Defense IV's and EV's. ._.
  16. UpsideDownHitmontop

    UpsideDownHitmontop

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    They do...read the first post. It has a lot of useful info. After battle 28 they all have 31 IVs in every stat and 510 EVs.
  17. Disibio

    Disibio

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    Oh, I didn't even see that post. xD Thanks for pointing that out to me though, it's full of stuff I need.
  18. 2000b2

    2000b2

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    Hey could someone help me out. i'm trying a sandstorm or politoed drizzle team.
    for the sandstorm team. ev'd adament tyrantar,ev'd adament garchomp,ev'd jolly excadrill,ev'd jolly terrakion.
    Any tips like movesets or pokemon to change?
  19. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    @2000b2: For the sand team, you might want a flying type or levitator so your Garchomp/Excadrill can Earthquake freely. You might also want a special attacker (not as important, but might still help). Latios might be good, accomplishing both of those and also providing a fighting resist for Ttar and Excadrill/Terrakion (I guess maybe you'd use it over Terrakion in that case though). Zapdos/Thundurus as well, allowing for the Discharge + EQ combo when partnering with Garchomp/Excadrill and also allowing your team to deal with water types much better since everything in the team is currently weak to water or ice (though Zapdos and Latios are both still weak to ice, of course).
  20. Mr. XYZ

    Mr. XYZ

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    Jolly Excadrill is Speed over the top, you only need adamant and 172 Speed EV´s to outspeed everything in the Subway, Garchomp on the other hand needs Jolly and max Speed.
  21. Cradily

    Cradily

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    For A drizzle team I suggested Ctrl-F politoed on the records page and checking out teams proven to work already. Some great strategies are politeod + dry skin toxicroak or absorb bulb ludicolo. There's a few others you can do or just be original.
  22. lordkira

    lordkira

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    check out some of the rmt archives
    sorry hard to give you a suggestions on whole teams...
    but i can tell you that garchomp is banned in the standard OU meta
    if you, by any chance, play in meta where the landshark is still allowed...
    the best set would be the Sub+SD set with SS support.
    with SS, it becomes, arguably the best OU sweeper we ever had.
    It was so annoying to fight that thing in sand -_-;

    edit: I just realized I posted this in the subway thread -_-;
  23. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Ok so I'm thinking of trying out shell smash cloyster in singles but I'm having trouble deciding what moves to use. Obviously shell smash, icicle spear and rock blast are givens but I'm not sure whether I should go all physical with razor shell or use a mixed set with surf/hydro pump (probably surf for the accuracy). I'm leaning towards the mixed set, but I'm curious as to whether people with more experience with using cloyster in the subway think that it is better to just go all-physical?

    Also, I've been investigating alternatives to toxicroak on my doubles rain team to fill the role as a 'disrupting assistant' to politoed and I used this to decent success:

    Kingdra @ life orb

    Waterfall
    Outrage
    Quash
    Protect

    I mainly put quash on as a joke just to see whether it would be useful or not (it's not like kingdra is swimming in options as far as movepool goes). I was surprised at how useful it was. I mainly used it to stall dragons so that politoed could kill them with ice beam before they could do anything. It also did other neat things such as prevent a leafeon from setting up sunny day to cancel out my rain. It has more uses beyond this although it many cases it's just easier to kill them with waterfall (e.g. thunderbolt gengar).

    The main downside is that unlike fake out it doesn't actually prevent an opponent's actions. It just delays them. This can be an issue if politoed can't kill them. On the other hand, quash can be used whenever you want (rather than just on the first turn like fake out) which is handy. Might be worth trying out if anyone else out there doesn't want to use fake out for some reason (maybe to be different or something).
  24. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    That's interesting. It's good to know that it works to some degree. I was thinking of trying out an Eviolite Prankster Murkrow with Quash (but haven't got much of the details figured out yet).

    Currently at 77 streak in Double Subway:
    Dugtrio / Arena Trap / Jolly @ Sash: Bulldoze / Beat Up / Memento / Rockslide
    Terrakion / Justified / Jolly @ Wide Lens: Rockslide / Protect / Earthquake / Sacred Sword
    Latios / Levitate / Timid @ Life Orb: Psyshock / Grass Knot / Dragon Pulse / Thunderbolt
    Rotom-H / Levitate / Timid @ Scarf: Trick / Thunderbolt / Overheat / HP Ice 70

    Just trying out Beat Up Justified... Latios and Rotom-H were just levitating fillers that help out. A couple close calls, but yah, I wouldn't bother with having this on record list until I post an update of when I lose. Won't say much more about the team either since it's more or less self explanatory.

    Well, maybe one thing. Memento is mainly so Latios or Rotom can get in for free and attack. Usually I memento something that threatens Terrakion, unless Terrakion is already low on health. Bulldoze for slowing pokemon down and some damage obviously.

    EDIT: Lost at battle 85. Opponent had Gengar Bouffalant lead. Gengar OHKO'd Terrakion with Focus Blast and I was at a huge disadvantage from there on. Ended up with Rotom vs Archeops and 60% Probopass. Tbolt KOs Archeops. Stone Edge brings Rotom to red. If Rotom does not crit with Tbolt (or Probopass Stone Edge/whatever move does not miss), I lose, and Tbolt didn't crit, bringing Probopass to around 20%, Stone Edge hits and KOs Rotom. Heh. Not too big of a deal. Now that I think of it, I'm not sure why I'm even using a Dugtrio instead of Whimsicott (which can tailwind > Bulldoze). Probably it was because BeatUp + Memento is illegal egg combo on Whimsicott. O well. I'll see what I come up with next.
  25. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Actually Murkrow sounds like the best user of Quash for general teams (Kingdra is only good in rain). Can't believe I never thought of it before. I have a dream world Murkrow in my PC somewhere so I too might try it sometime.

    Too bad the move has such poor distribution because it has good potential. To me it seems that the only things that learn it that can actually use it effectively are Murkrow, Kingdra (in rain) and maybe Raikou because of its base 115 speed.

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