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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Rock Slide on Charizard seems a bit weak. You're basically looking at a 75 base power non-STAB attack coming off 94 attack (assuming you have a perfect attack IV).

    Unless you need Rock Slide to cover a specific threat, perhaps you should consider replacing it with Hidden Power, Ancientpower or Dragon Pulse.
  2. DaEvilWithin

    DaEvilWithin

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    I agree with atsync. Rock Slide is not as useful as HP Rock, I don't think there is anything that it beats HP Rock in for your Charizard's EV Spread. However, you might have to rebreed to get the proper IVs...
  3. BeastMode2010

    BeastMode2010

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    I actually don't IV breed, mainly because I don't really understand how to do the IV math and what not
  4. DaEvilWithin

    DaEvilWithin

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  5. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    This is the one I use for "IV Math":
    http://www.psypokes.com/dex/stats.php

    If you still have a Charizard from Gen IV and don't want to breed for Hidden Power, then Ancient Power is an ok replacement.

    Finally I get a decent streak. Currently at 112 streak in Double Subway with:
    1. Latios / Levitate / Timid @ Life Orb - Psyshock / Thunderbolt / Dragon Pulse / Surf
    2. Kangaskhan / Scrappy / Jolly @ Silk Scarf - Fake Out / Return / Low Kick / Sucker Punch
    3. Zapdos / Pressure / Timid @ Wide Lens - Thunderbolt / Heatwave / HP Grass 70 / Protect
    4. Azumarill / Huge Power / Adamant @ Splash Plate - Waterfall / Aqua Jet / Protect / Double-edge

    EDIT: lost with 115 streak mainly to Toxic sandstorm Cradily followed by Shuckle. Misplayed vs Excadrill too. That's fine. At least I lost to exactly what I knew I had trouble dealing with. Time for Toxicroak > Kangaskhan and see if I can get it a bit further. :P

    Warning: Unnecessarily Long Blabbering of Text (open)

    Strategy: Mainly Latios KO stuff while Kangaskhan Fake Out to get an early lead. I was just trying out different things.

    I tried Mienshao (@Wide Lens - Fake Out / Rockslide / High Jump Kick / Protect or U-Turn) replacing Kangaskhan which worked ok but the leads were really scared of ghosts since that Mienshao set can't hurt ghosts much while Latios is weak to ghost.

    I also tried Conkeldurr in the back instead of Azumarill, but then didn't like Flame Orb and did not like rock slide's accuracy. I could use Fist Plate and Payback instead I suppose, but I ended up deciding to look for something I have not tried before, when I came across Azumarill, which was actually pretty similar to Conkeldurr function-wise. I.e. 1. Almost same attack stat after factoring in Huge Power, Azumarill has slightly higher, but without Guts. 2. Both can (and will likely) have a main STAB attacking move with mediocre base power (Waterfall vs Drain Punch) as well as a priority STAB move (Aqua Jet vs Mach Punch). 3. Both have typings and movesets that allow for good neutral coverage with 2 move types (Water + Normal vs Fighting + Rock/Dark). 4. Both are considerably bulky enough to take a hit or two. In the end, Azumarill was an obvious choice because of his resistance to ice, as well as his ability to OHKO Aerodactyl and Archeops which will/might outspeed Latios. It's not bad vs Jolteon either since it's KO'd by Aqua Jet after getting hit by any of the moves from the rest of the team (maybe excluding Kangaskhan Low Kick, though why would I low kick Jolteon in the first place, when I can at least Sucker Punch).

    I tried a couple other things instead of Zapdos too. In the beginning it was Choice Scarf Reckless Staraptor (Brave Bird / Double-edge / U-Turn / Close Combat - I tried to use this as a lead instead of Latios too), because Staraptor has some typing synergy with Latios (immune Ghost and resist Bug), but the double ice weak was not so fun. So then I tried out Volcarona, because it resists fighting for Kangaskhan and bug/ice too if switching in for Latios).

    ... And actually for streaks 1 to 56 I was using Volcarona instead of Zapdos. I don't usually just switch a pokemon out in the middle of a streak that went past 56, but the water weakness was too apparent in the team as I was progressing. It might not seem like it, but yah, Latios weak to Ice, Kangaskhan neutral to water, Volcarona weak to water means Azumarill was my only water resist, and with Double-edge attacking them, Azumarill can't really take on more than 1 or so water pokemon. I knew the streak was not going to last too long if I don't change something. Volcarona seemed to be the weakness link anyway. I knew I wanted something that can take on water types, but ideally also wanted a fighting resist because of Kangaskhan. At the same time one of the main selling points of Volcarona was the fire move that allows my team to take on things like Ferrothorn and the few Steel/Bugs with relative ease. I just so happened to have a HP Grass Zapdos in my box which did everything I wanted, so there it was.

    There has been several close calls, and so far all those times, Azumarill was the one that saved the day. The minimize Toxic Blissey almost beat my entire team because I did not have a steel or poison types. MORE and more, I am thinking that I should be making a switch to Toxicroak > Kangaskhan. Better attack, STAB fighting move, and also allows Latios to surf freely (I have used Fake Out + Surf on several occasions even with using Kangaskhan, if both opponent pokemon are weak to surf), immune to Toxic. In exchange, Kangaskhan hits ghosts and has higher speed (which is actually somewhat important). Both can fake Out, sucker Punch, and low kick. Well, I will see. Kangaskhan's Fake Out + Sucker Punch KOing all ghosts faster than Latios is fairly useful, and Return hitting slower ghosts (not having to Sucker Punch fail and then get wow'd or something) is very useful too.

    Other than the potential Toxicroak > Kangaskhan, I don't see myself changing much else. I did have Choice Specs on Latios before, but being able to switch attacks turned out to be more beneficial. I also had Life Orb on Azumarill before too. I thought LO + Double-edge recoil might be a problem, but no, the problem was more vs defensive pokemon. Not having recoil is very good. I probably would have lost to that minimize Blissey if Azumarill had Life Orb instead of Splash Plate.

    Anyway that's all. I'll see how far I get. I just stop to report 112 streak since the next highest streak in the records is Eppie's 134 which I probably won't get to for a bit, and maybe I'll lose my streak before then too, who knows.


    EDIT2: By the way, anyone ever tried Frost Breath Froslass paired with Anger Point Tauros yet? I don't imagine it to be much more effective than TerraCott, but who knows. Froslass will need to decide between wide lens, focus sash, or choice scarf (since it speed ties Tauros) though...
  6. Cradily

    Cradily

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    Then I recommend getting rid of Charizard, Vaporeon takes fire moves aimed at metagross, so grab some poke intimidating like Garchomp.
  7. czechm8

    czechm8

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    I've had some success with this team (made it to 51 then lost). It has a obvious Ice weakness unfortunately so any advice on changes is appreciated.
    Latios @ Choice Specs timid 252spATK 252 Spe
    Trick Draco Meteor, dragon pulse, psyshock

    Metagross @life orb Adamant (standard agilgloss Ev's)
    Agility, Meteor Mash, Zen Headbutt, Earthquake

    Garchomp @ Yache Berry Adamant (252 Atk 4def 252 speed)
    earthquake, Swords Dance, outrage, fire fang

    Metagross is meant to take ice and dragon attacks so garchomp and latios can kill everything with their moves however, it didn't work as well in reality as it did in my mind. Any advice?
  8. fluffyflyingpig

    fluffyflyingpig

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    Wow, looks like a bunch of people had similar ideas. The Garchomp/Aero/Rotom/Meta idea is interesting. I guess I'm due for a dump of a bunch of my teams. Still haven't quite gotten to 800 yet, but not for lack of trying.


    After thousands of runs with Apre/latios/hydra/gross, my best result is short of 800. Continued tweaks haven't quite gotten where I wanted, so I tried a few things.



    As I mentioned with v1, the back row slots were driven around finding water/flying/psychic/ground resistances for Infernape to U-Turn into. Metagross was a solid backrow anchor, but the third slot bothered me for quite a while. Initially that slot was Salamence, but Gyarados, Latias, Zapdos, and Thundarous all had tries before settling on Hydra. Salamence, Gyarados, Latias, and Hydra are 4/5 of the viable water/ground resists, but it overlooks one of the new ones from B/W: Rotom:W with new Water/Electric typing.


    Unfortunately, Rotom-W is kinda slow, but not slow enough to be good in trick room. Rotom-W@ Tbolt/HydroPump/Shadow Ball/HP Ice worked reasonably well, but in the end Hydra still seems better. Rotom has really cool typing now though. Meh. I think my best run with Ape/Latios/Rotom-W/Gross was 150ish and I only gave it a couple of tries.
  9. fluffyflyingpig

    fluffyflyingpig

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    Next, I went back to the old standby with some slight changes for v3 of Infernape/Latios/Hydreigon/Metagross



    Battle Subway Doubles
    Streak: 532
    Team: Infernape, Latios, Hydreigon, Metagross



    Infernape @ Focus Sash
    Hasty 6/252/0/0/0252
    Blaze
    -Fake Out
    -U-turn
    -Close Combat
    -Flamethrower

    Latios @ Choice Specs
    Timid 6/0/0/252/0/252
    Levitate
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Psyshock
    -Thunderbolt
    -Protect

    Hydreigon@Life Orb
    Modest 0/0/0/252/6/252
    Levitate
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Flamethrower
    -Dark Pulse
    -Protect

    Metagross @ Air Balloon
    Adamant 6/252/0/0/0/252
    Clear Body
    -Iron Head
    -Bullet Punch
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Punch


    I talked about most of these changes earlier but in summary: Ape gets Flamethrower>Overheat, Latios Psyshock>Psychic and Protect>Draco Meteor, Hydra gets Protect>HP Grass, Metagross is now max speed Adamant. Only a a slight improvement on 510, loss this time from Worker Roman with Abomasnow+Froslass leads. Yay Snow Cloak hax. ._.


    Of course this entire team was basically pieced together from successful teams from last gen. Credit specifically to Groombridge for the Infernape set and U-turn concept, Peterko for the now standard Choice Latios, and ...I think Chinesedood for the Metagross set?


    Type synergy on this set is wonderful, excellent defensive resistance coverage, lots of opportunities for switches, a real rarity in doubles. I have at least one resist for every type and I have made all 12 possible switches multiple times.
  10. fluffyflyingpig

    fluffyflyingpig

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    However, the biggest problem with this team is Ice trainers. Particularly, Froslass. Stupid Froslass. So I had the same idea as Peterko and designed a team that can kill lead Froslass before it can set up Hail and/or kill me.


    Hitmontop@ Focus Sash
    Adamant 6/252/0/0/0/252
    Levitate
    - Fake Out
    - Mach Punch
    - Bullet Punch
    - Close Combat

    Thundurus@ Life Orb
    Timid 6/0/0/252/0/252
    Prankster
    -Thunderbolt
    -Dark Pulse
    -HP Ice
    -Volt Switch

    Latios @ Choice Specs
    Timid 6/0/0/252/0/252
    Levitate
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Psyshock
    -Thunderbolt
    -Draco Meteor

    Metagross @ Air Balloon
    Adamant 6/252/0/0/0/252
    Clear Body
    -Iron Head
    -Bullet Punch
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Punch


    This was relatively easy to put together, but somewhat disappointing. Overall, I felt this was missing some power. I only gave it one try and it failed miserably at 80 or so. It killed all lead Froslasses nice and dead, but did not feel like it had great long term potential. I like Peterko's idea of putting Medicham in the back row and running tailwind on the genie, but the lack of Fake Out on his lead Metagross is kinda offputting. Maybe I will revisit this.

    Incidentally Peterko, it seems like Thundurus would be better than Tornadus for defensive typing, even if you are going to be mono attacking with Acrobatics, unless you want to draw electric and switch out to Hydra. Oh right, no tailwind. ._.
  11. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Rotom-W doesn't learn Scald. I assume you mean Hydro Pump.

    EDIT: Also, Thunderus doesn't learn Tailwind, I don't think. Am I missing something here?
  12. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    @fluffyflyingpig: Your 2nd post seemed a bit strange!

    You just said no Draco Meteor in the first post, and then have DM for the Latios in the 2nd team...

    Also, Hitmontop should probably have Technician and not Levitate.

    Also, I did use a similar Metagross, but I don't think I used it to any notable success, so I'm not really sure you got the Metagross set from me :P
  13. Groombridge

    Groombridge

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    Fluffy, that is an awesome record. Glad you found the flinch'n'flee Infernape handy. I can see the benefits of Flamethrower over Overheat: 100% accuracy, and consistent power. With a Blaze boost, it's still pretty tasty. I'm actually using Protect over U-turn, and it does mostly the same thing - it baits the AI into whiffing an attack.

    There have been some really interesting ideas floating about regarding the Fake Out user on a team - Peterko using Medicham, Chinese Dood using Kangaskhan. I think these guys did what I did while theorymonning, which is to look at the Serebii learnpool for Fake Out and see what has potential! I thought about a Fake Out team (Ape, Weavile, Top, Ludicolo/Ambipom/Hariyama/Croak), but didn't get past planning, not a lot of synergy there.

    You have Protect on Specs Lat? I guess for double Bug/Dark/Ice leads, let Ape hit one lead as you Protect, then hit the other as you switch?

    The big feature of this team is switching - for resists, to reset a Choice user, or to get Fake Out back. It makes games more strategic and involved, as you have to think of a plan each time, as opposed to following a script as per trickscarfing or whatever in singles. Loads more fun.

    The Meta set is Peterko's from last gen, with Ice Punch over the nerfed Explosion. It was his idea to use Iron Head over Meteor Miss, and everyone since is like, oh yeah, obvs.

    Thundurus gets Thunder Wave instead of Tailwind, and no Acrobatics. Tornadus got the STAB Flying moves - if Thundurus got them, there's be no point to Tornadus at all...

    Well, I'm still riding essentially the same team as this too, up to 224 wins (will post a pic once I lose). The big difference with my team is that I lead with Scarf Hydra - that's how I deal with Froslass. Sash aside, Dark Pulse is a OHKO before it moves.

    EDIT And that's that! 228 wins.

    Super Doubles, 228

    Infernape @ Focus Sash
    Naive, Blaze
    200 Atk, 56 SpA, 252 Spe

    Fake Out, Protect, Close Combat, Overheat

    Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
    Modest, Levitate
    6 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe

    Dragon Pulse, Dark Pulse, Flamethrower, Surf

    Latios @ Life Orb
    Timid, Levitate
    6 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe

    Dragon Pulse, Psyshock, Thunderbolt, Grass Knot

    Metagross @ Air Balloon
    Adamant, Clear Body
    96 HP, 252 Atk, 192 Spe

    Iron Head, Bullet Punch, Ice Punch, Earthquake

    Lost to a TR team, played badly due to not paying attention and having a cold :(

    Ape, Hydra
    ~ Steelix, Zong, Hypnosis/Rain Dance/Gyro Ball/TR @ Sitrus

    1. Fake Out Zong, Flamethrower Steel KO
    ~ Hariyama, FO/Detect/CC/EQ @ Flame Orb

    2. Switch Hydra > Lat, Ape OH Zong 45% dmg (Heatproof), Yama CC Lat 50%, Zong TR

    3. Zong GyroB Ape, Yama CC Ape KO, Lat Psyshock Yama KO

    Metagross
    ~ Rhyperior, RS/EQ/HArm/Protect @ Wide Lens

    4. Zong Gyro Lat KO, Rhy RS, 20% Meta pop, Meta EQ, near KO Zong - Sitrus, 35% Rhy

    Hydra

    5. Zong Gyro Hydra, Rhy HArm Hydra KO, Meta EQ Zong KO, 35% Rhy

    6. Rhy EQ, KO

    Should have pulled Infernape out after turn 2, so it can come back and flinch things and stall with Protect. Bit of bad luck that Rhyperior should come out in TR, and that set in particular (wouldn't have minded the RP/Rock Wrecker set).

    Kind of funny that this particular team should beat me - it's three-quarters of the first doubles team I ever posted in the DP Tower Records thread! That was TR Bronzong-Guts Hariyama, Weezing/TTar-Rhyperior, and I remember that it did well against teams of legendaries.

    Nice run, all told.
  14. NoCheese

    NoCheese It's not just a house...it's a maison!
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    I've given the following rain team a try in super singles.

    Politoed @ Choice Scarf
    Timid, Drizzle
    IV: 31/2/31/30/31/31
    EV: 4/0/0/252/0/252

    Stats at Lv 50: 166/72/95/141/120/134(201 with Scarf)

    Surf
    Ice Beam
    Psychic
    Hidden Power (Grass, 70)

    --

    Ludicolo @ Lum Berry
    Modest, Swift Swim
    IV: 31/18/31/30/31/30
    EV: 4/0/4/248/4/248

    Stats at Lv 50: 156/75/91/155/121/121(242 in the rain)

    Surf
    Giga Drain
    Ice Beam
    Hidden Power (Fire, 70)

    --

    Thundurus @ Life Orb
    Naive, Prankster
    IV: 30/30/30/31/31/31
    EV: 0/4/0/252/0/252

    Stats at LV 50: 154/135/90/177/90/179

    Thunder
    Grass Knot
    Hidden Power (Ice, 70)
    Hammer Arm

    --

    So far, I have an active streak of 49 wins, but am worried about this team's long term viability.

    Scarf Politoed is pretty standard, outrunning all base speed 130s, and hitting most things hard with surf. Psychic over Focus Blast is debatable, but I hate low accuracy moves, and psychic destroys dry skin Toxicroak and helps against things like Poliwrath too. It has the downside of leaving me without a good move against Abomasnow, but I typically would switch out of him anyway so I could later switch back in and bring the rain back.

    In the rain, Ludicolo outruns everything but faster swift swimmers, Choice Scarf Manectric, and Choice Scarf Entei, and hits hard with surf. I chose Giga Drain over Grass Knot because many of the more annoying water types are remarkably light, while the heavy pokes that take a lot from Grass Knot tend to be ground and rock types that take more damage from Surf anyway. The recovery helps give Ludicolo decent survivability too. Hidden Power fire is primarily for Abomasnow, which causes problems for my team by switching off the rain (but whose hail removes the rain's halving of HP Fire's damage as a side effect). Ludicolo really depends on its speed, so I run the berry to protect against the common users of Thunder Wave.

    Thundurus hits very hard with STAB Life Orb Thunder, and Hidden Power Ice and Grass Knot give good coverage against the things Thunder is ineffective against. Hammer Arm is critical to the team, as otherwise Blissey walls it completely. I've also found it useful against Abomasnow. Even when the weather is changed, Thundurus keeps his high speed, providing some resilience, though the loss of perfect accuracy for Thunder hurts.

    Though the team has done okay, I am wondering if Thundurus is really the correct choice for the third poke. The team has no electric resist, and Thundurus's ice weakness only exacerbates the vulnerability to hail teams.

    I've considered a mixed Dragonite with Hurricane/Thunder/Outrage and either Dragon Dance, Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, or Flamethrower (seeing my Abomasnow paranoia, yet?), but fear that though it has impressive bulk and power, it is probably too slow. It shares Thundurus's ice weakness to boot.

    An option I'm leaning towards is a Physical Chesto (or Lum) Rest Kingdra, with Waterfall/Outrage/Rest/Dragon Dance or Rain Dance (to bring rain back against weather changers). Kingdra avoids the ice weakness of Thundurus, can outrun everything except another swift swimmer in the rain (even them after a Dragon Dance) and hits hard even without a Dragon Dance boost. Is there some glaring weakness I'm missing here, or is Kindgra just plain a better choice for my third poke?

    Many thanks.

    EDIT:

    Just switched to Adamant Waterfall/Outrage/Dragon Dance/Substitute Kingdra. Can't believe I forgot about substitute when I first posted. Loving it so far!
  15. fluffyflyingpig

    fluffyflyingpig

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    Team: Politoad, Ludicolo, Toxicroak, Kingdra

    Politoad @ Choice Scarf
    Timid / Drizzle
    31/03/31/31/30/31
    006/000/000/248/004/252
    166/072/095/141/121/134
    -Surf
    -Hidden Power (Electric)
    -Ice Beam
    -Psychic

    Ludicolo @ Absorb Bulb
    Modest / Swift Swim
    31/31/31/31/31/31
    006/000/004/252/004/244
    156/081/091/156/121/121
    -Surf
    -Fake Out
    -Ice Beam
    -Giga Drain

    Toxicroak @ Focus Sash
    Adamant / Dry Skin
    31/31/29/03/31/31
    014/244/000/000/000/252
    160/172/084/082/085/137
    -Fake Out
    -Close Combat
    -Sucker Punch
    -Protect

    Kingdra @ Life Orb
    Mild / Drizzle
    28/31/31/31/31/31
    000/052/004/252/004/196
    149/122/104/161/116/130
    -Surf
    -Waterfall
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Protect



    I still think that the genie + bullet punch idea has some potential, but I got bored of goodstuffs and finished assembling a rain team. I had the concept worked out and was putting it all together right when R Inanimate’s record was posted and I got discouraged and shelved it for a while. Now it looks like someone on the GBU has most of the same setup as well. Meh. Team works beautifully, try one got up to 350ish before losing due to miss-click, try two is over 350 and counting again. The way it works was already basically explained but I’ll add my 2 cents anyway.

    My thoughts in building the team:

    Politoad is mandatory for rain. It’s too damn slow so it needs a scarf. Hydro Pump accuracy is terrible, SpA is too low to really want to rely on Scald, so double Surf is the way to go. HP Electric > Focus Blast for accuracy. Politoad’s movepoll sucks overall. Now that I think about it, Rain Dance might be useable to deal with Abomasnow leads. I switch Politoad out normally anyway to reset rain with Fake Out cover... hmm.



    Second lead needs Fake Out, best options are Ludicolo or Toxicroak. The duck is faster and can dual Surf, so it gets the nod. 244 IVs gives 121 Speed, outrunning scarf Terrakion in the rain, faster than everything but Manectric and Entei. Giga Drain give recovery and does better damage on Lanturn. Bulb is a free SpA boost since Politoad Surfs 90% of the time and quad resist is handy.

    With the new autorain, Toxicroak isn’t great as a second lead but is still good in the backrow, adding very useful Water immunity and Poison/Bug/Fighting resists. Close Combat + Sucker Punch off 172 attack is good, if inconsistent coverage but kills Ice/Blissey/Regice/Ferrothorn/Empoleon/Tyranatar. Fake Out on both Politoad and Ludicolo lets me switch around Politoad more easily to reset rain. Toxicroak has miserable defenses so Protect is great here easy prediction. Protect + Fake Out + Sucker Punch helps a lot with Trick Room. Max Speed Adamant gives 137 speed, enough to outrun all Ice Worker pokemon that need a CC except Articuno 3. 1 Attack point is traded for 1 HP point for an ever 160 HP, a nice round number to maximize Dry Skin recovery so the Focus Sash comes back into play. Toxicroak can easily switch in to a resisted attach and see 75% HP recovery before anything hits him again. (Rain + surf/fakeout + rain + Surf = 12.5 + 25 + 12.5 + 25 = 75%!)

    Kingdra seems like a must have for rain teams. Life Orb is the best item left, and my low HP IV leaves me at 149 HP, which is a good Life Orb Number. Speed to outrun everything, quad resist for Surf spam, coverage with Dragon Pulse, Waterfall kills Blissey, Protect stalls Trick Room.


    Lots of fun to play, mostly brute force compared to the resistance switchfest of my other team. Occasional tactical puzzles with Fake Out and Protect provide variety. Weather changers and status abuse have been the most annoying things so far. I predict loss by Ice Worker freeze/crit hax involving Abomasnow.
  16. fluffyflyingpig

    fluffyflyingpig

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    Dammit, this is what I get for trying to write up teams from memory while on an airplane without my DS and posting on crappy intermittent hotel internet at night. Lemme figure this out here. I think I completely screwed up some things... I think this is correct now? I'll check when I get back home.


    Chinese Dood, I think I gave Latios Draco Miss again for backrow Latios, since it was backrow and locking it into Protect then would be silly. And I am pretty sure I saw you use the Metagross set in the last few pages of the old thread when I was making the team right when BW came out. Inspired by everyone else of course.


    Yep, for exactly this reason. And occasional use in TR. It actually saved me a couple of times, so I guess I'll keep it.
  17. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Toxicroak can't learn Close Combat, sadly. Your best options instead would be Drain Punch or Low Kick.

    Although Abomasnow can be a pain to deal with since it negates the rain, rain teams tend to not do too badly against Ice trainers since you don't have any Ice weak Pokemon. Being able to take the weather back from a lead Abomasnow, and doubling speed in the process makes obnoxous Pokemon like Froslass who loses both its speed and evasion advantage it would normally have against non-weather teams.
  18. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    No problem, I understand. I just wanted to make sure, though I figured it was a mistake. It was either that or you purposely hack illegal pokemon (note I was never trying to accuse you of pokesaving your team or anything).

    Sorry to be a nitpick, but Toxicroak doesn't learn Close Combat lol! That's why everyone uses Low Kick (though I use Drain Punch with my lead Toxicroak which worked nicely).

    EDIT: silly ninja R Inanimate
  19. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    1,070
    You talked about close to 800 but then you posted a 532. Then there´s the issue with the illegal movesets you post. What´s wrong with you man?
  20. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    @flufflyflypig: I'll go ahead and mention something else that was typed in incorrectly:
    31/03/31/31/30/31 is HP Steel, not Electric, and will not get you those stats with those EVs either. I'm prety sure you meant 31/03/31/30/31/31, which does give you HP Electric and will give you those stats for those EVs at level 50.

    Not trying to be super picky or anything lol, I just have the few more common Hidden Power IVs (like Electric/Ice/Grass/Fire/Ground/Fighting) more or less memorized, so when I saw that I thought that looked more like HP Bug or Steel (also just remember bug just because my magic bounce espeon I tried out a while back was running HP Bug).
  21. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Unless I missed something, he didn't actually say he was close to 800. He said he was SHORT of 800. As in, he had not reached 800 yet. Indeed 532 is short of 800. I assume he mentioned 800 because that's the current benchmark for the top doubles players.

    I know that's really pedantic, and this isn't really any of my business, but I wanted to make that clear. This is a serious issue being dealt with here (namely being suspicious of someone who has posted long streaks and such).

    Oh, and those moveset issues COULD be mistakes. Maybe. There sure are a lot of them though (plus that HP electric thing, but it's easy to see how that could be an accident).
  22. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    I didn´t say I was suspicious (yet), it´s just that I´m used to different type of posts from him. You just have to admit that it´s unusual for such an experienced guy to post about stuff like tailwind thundurus and close combat toxicroak.

    I thought short of meant barely missing the mark...my bad (no english in not my native language).

    I´m very lazy, I still haven´t posted the team I was talking about some time ago...if anyone cared, it was whimsicott-typhlosion-medicham-hydreigon.

    Ironically, lost 1 before TRE´s (R Ina) whimsi-typhlo record (113). The difference between our leads were: mine was scarf-typhlo, his protect+LO, my whimsi was sun-tailwind-fake tears-giga his was pure support with sun-tailwind-helping hand-taunt, which is quite different.

    I used many variations of the team, mainly changing typhlo hidden power to no avail as 98% of the time I was still erupting and hp almost never changed the outcome...doubling eruption with fake tears on one foe or tripling with sun was immense fun, though.
  23. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Well, yes, I do find it suspiscious, though I'm a strong believer in 'innocent until proven guilty' which is why I've been trying to defend him and why I'm holding out on blatantly crying POKESAV!

    Actually, I don't even care if he does pokesav (EDIT: as long as the pokemon are legal obviously, which they weren't in this case but were in his other streaks). I honestly don't have a problem with those who have to pokesav to get their teams, but I know a lot of others probably do have a problem with it (that's an entirely different discussion though).

    Either way, fluffy has some explaining to do. We'll see.

    Just to clarify, your understanding of 'short of' isn't necessarily incorrect. It's just that it can be interpreted to mean different things. You interpreted it to mean close to 800 and I interpreted it to mean that he hadn't reached 800 yet. Your English is fine :D Only fluffy knows what he actually meant by it when he said it.

    As for what I'm doing currently (if anyone cares), I'm done with Cloyster for now (my team is screwed badly by fighting teams and I even tried Salamence to help with that problem but it just didn't compare to Garchomp). I'm going back to my Rotom-Scizor-Dragonite (change for Garchomp?) team, since it's my best team (and the only one that I can take full credit for).
  24. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    I also personally liked using that team, but felt that its opening leads had too many problems to handle. Piling all your offense into one super powered multitargetted blaze of glory wasn't enough to get past all the Fire resistant Legendaries, and the annoyingly large amount of Sturdies, Waters, and Rocks everywhere. Then there were the random times that Typhlosion gets CH Sucker Punched and things fell into chaos. Even though it is pretty awesome to OHKO a Water Type with a Fire attack.
  25. skitz0phrenic

    skitz0phrenic

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
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    Ugh. I've designed like 5 or 6 teams now to try in here and haven't gotten around to actually playing with any of them yet. I need to get the drive back somehow I guess. Before I stopped playing I was using a sort of odd team to surprising success:

    Cloyster (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SAtk / 64 SDef / 136 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Shell Smash
    - Blizzard
    - Surf
    - Rock Blast


    Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 92 Def / 92 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Leech Seed
    - Ice Shard
    - Protect
    - Wood Hammer


    Manectric (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Thunderbolt
    - Protect
    - Rain Dance


    Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 176 Atk / 80 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Blizzard
    - Waterfall
    - Outrage
    - Protect


    Using rain and hail together seems like a bit of a pain, but it actually works out alright. The downfall of this team is that it's really easy to make a misplay and the team falls apart drastically after that. Manectric is severely underrated though. Subway AI doesn't understand that they can't T-Bolt Cloyster with Lightning Rod Manectric sitting right there getting SpA boosts. It makes me really excited for when and if LR Zapdos is released. Zapdos-Gyarados is gonna be sick.

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