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Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.
Might as well use a Latios in that case :)
Be sure to have a way to defeat Froslass 4. Although you have a Chansey in the back, it does sound like it stops your sweep cold, as you speed tie it at best with Latios/Latias, and it has a Sash.
I put them in the wrong order when i posted the team. Whim will go out first to cripple, and allow Conk to setup sweep. I'm not sure how to get Mach and Drain Punch. Since u get drain from Mienfoo and Mach from Hitmonchan...
I'm still breeding this Conk because it doesn't want to give me a Adamant with Guts :( I'm tempted to just start breeding Whims because I just have to worry about Nature. lol
Wow, it's been a while since I bred mine, but yeah, I think I got a Drain Punch Hitmonchan from Gen IV, and then it learns Mach Punch naturally.
Whimsicott wants to have Prankster instead of Infiltrator too, so not just nature you have to worry about.
Gen V RNGing is extremely easy too compared to Gen IV which already isn't so hard, so it's really worth to time to figure it out. Like, back in the days, I spent hours or even a whole week using traditional methods to breed for something with decently good IVs and sometimes hidden power (usually it's the hidden power ones that potentially take a whole week - I don't own or use an AR). I don't have that kind of time (and probably patience) anymore. Gen IV RNGing usually at worst takes 2 - 3 hours for me, but Gen V at worst takes like 10 mins for wild pokemon captures and usually less than an hour for breeding with egg moves.
Yesterday, I randomly decided to breed for a Gastrodon (in Gen V, so no Earth Power) as a toxi-staller (Scald / Ice Beam / Toxic / Recover) to see how it'd compare with Milotic, being immune to water and electric. But yeah, Milotic totally wins. The slightly less bulk was a bit noticeable, but the lack of speed actually really hurt. Being able to switch in on electric moves (and rock moves with more ease) was awesome for when the situation occurs, but it was surprisingly underwhelming.
Then I bred a Poison Heal Gliscor as a toxi-staller (Protect / Sub / Toxic / EQ) , and it has been giving me positive results. As long as I team it up with the correct things, maybe it'll get somewhere.
Yes, I'm trying to find some viable ground types to use in Subway, because Twaves are annoying. It's just that most ground types are too slow aside from Garchomp (and Dugtrio which can't OHKO anything). Maybe I'll try to use a Landorus sometime. ... after I get the other 2 genies... I haven't tried Manectric or Zebstrika yet though. Maybe will be worth trying out though I cannot yet imagine how those two will be better than Jolteon other than Manectric having access to fire moves.
I don't have access to older games atm. I'm going to order HGSS from amazon soon, but thats gonna take a while even after I order it. So I'm breeding Drain Punch right now. And I forgot he gets Infiltrator too...dammit.
Why not try Marowak with Lightningrod? At a Jolly nature...he could be pretty quick.
Hm, if I'm complaining about Mamoswine being too slow, I don't think Marowak will do the trick. :P That's why I was using Ground types like Gastrodon and Gliscor for Toxi-stalling, since then speed would not be as much of an issue (i.e. I'm trying to stall with those 2, not to sweep).
I wanted Zapdos to win that DW vote thing, but o well, looks like it won't have much chance.
O yeah, on an almost totally unrelated note*, I was thinking of trying out CM / Stored Power / Sub / Rest Musharna, maybe paired with a Terrakion or something that can deal with dark types with ease. +6/+6 Stored Power with no SpA EVs will still pretty much OHKO everything not immune.
*Almost totally, since Musharna with Rest and Sub sort of does not really mind Twave at all. Suicune will probably still work better as the mono-CMer though.
Regarding stored power/sub pokes, I've been sorely tempted to try cosmic power/sub/stored power/softboiled Clefable. Base defenses are probably too low, but magic guard is amazing and it's very tempting to be able to boost both defenses and still hit modestly hard once set up.
Not like this matters to anyone good enough to post here, but if we had such a thorough breakdown of the Frontier Brains last time, maybe picking apart Ingo and Emmet is in order?
Aside from this page and knowing from experience that the Singles Crustle runs Sturdy, I don't see much due diligence on this aspect. (I wanna unlock the super trains, dammit!)
That Clefable is a bad idea. It doesn't get STAB from Stored Power which could mean the end of it if it can't get maximum boosts, and it doesn't have a coverage moves which means it loses to every Dark-type
Check out this page. But in all honesty, if you can't beat the Regular train easily, you probably shouldn't be in the Super train
Yeah, it would obviously have to stall out dark types, but that's a common weakness of mono-attacking sets. Of course there are more dark types than water absorbers out there, and the lack of Pressure means it can't stall out as many things as Suicune can, so that's a big strike against it.
I'm much less worried about the STAB issue, as at +6 to both defenses, with a sub up, a 1HKO is less important, since with a sub it would take two crits in a row to KO me.
Still, Suicune is so dominant at the mono-attacking sub boosting game that it is probably ill advised to use something else for that job, so for now, I'm resisting the temptation of Clefairy breeding.
I think the reason we don't have much info around here for the Subway bosses is because they only have one set of Pokemon for each mode, and it's not too difficult to remember, nor are they particularly difficult to defeat most of the time. For example, Ingo in the Super Subway will always run Haxorus 4, Chandelure 3, and Excadrill 4, which is 100% Garchomp weak.
The only things you need to really know aside from the Pokemon they use are:
-The order they have their Pokemon in is random
-The abilities, and gender are random (despite what some sites may say)
-The IVs of their Pokemon are straight 31
What about using Espeon or Xatu with Magic Bounce. Ull be able to stop more than just twave with it, and they have decent speed
I just ran Darmanitan, Reuniclus, and Samurott from my in-game team (not EV trained) to unlock the singles train without breeding or going for EVs or anything. Really, Darmanitan and any Water-type should work fine. If you spam Flare Blitz (a Charcoal boosted Flare Blitz will OHKO Garbador and Klinklang), switch in your non-Water type as a sacrifice against Crustle (who I believe would be OHKO'd by Flare Blitz, but I didn't want to take a chance...interestingly enough, I've never seen it run Sturdy) and do at least one point of damage if you can, then kill it with Surf (Jellicent seems like it would work fine here). Then you just keep attacking until your Water-type dies, go back to Darmanitan, and Flare Blitz to death. Super single train unlocked!
With DW unlocking a new area with the mountains, what pokemon do you guys think can become an asset (or even make a dent) into some of the trains?
Unburden Hitmonlee comes to mind, since you don't have to worry about having to switch out as bad as on the PO server. Adding in something like Helping Hand in doubles could potentially be a great sweeper.
OFC u also get DDmence who is a straight beast.
Assist Spinda (lol)
Analytic Mangezone could be a pretty decent sweeper with Lag Tail.
Reckless Rhyperior could add a nice sweep in double TR teams.
Sand Viel Donphan on double sand teams
These could create some interesting teams, but I think Unburden Lee and DDMence are the 2 biggest game changers.
(this is why I asked for a subforum in suggestion box (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3457118) support the cause! lol)
I was thinking that Mence maybe might have some use, but for a 3 vs 3 environment, I think Intimidate will probably be better still. I have tried using Moxie DD Gyarados and would very often wished that I had Intimidate instead. Of course Mence has higher attack and speed so maybe it's not quite the same.
Unburden Hitmonlee might be interesting.
Lagging Tail and Sweeper shouldn't go in the same sentence though. I.e. you don't sweep by moving last, unless you've been boosting your defensive stats (like Curselax or CurseThorn). I think a Gem boost or Specs Sturdy Magnezone would be more useful than Analytic Lagging Tail for Subway, and... I'm not sure I would even use those Zones.
Sturdy is again a much more useful ability than Sand Veil, for Donphan.
Reckless Rhyperior might be interesting, except iirc, the only recoil move it has is Double-Edge from DW. For Doubles, Rhyperior probably wants EQ + Rockslide + Protect, leaving only one more move slot. I am probably more likely to want to use Crunch / Ice Punch / Fire Punch for coverage than Double-Edge, and Lightningrod is a good ability in Double too. Solid Rock is not so bad either, allowing it to survive basically any unboosted waterfalls.
Water Absorb Cacturne might see some use in Double. A strong Sucker Punch and ability to hit water types for super effective (if used in a rain team) is about all it has though. Maybe that's enough reason to try out. I dunno.
Im thinking about running hitmonlee with
Then a dark type to switch in on ghosts/psychics and w/e
I just lost a 74 streak due to misplay in Single Tower with this team:
1. Starmie / Natural Cure / Timid @ Choice Specs
- Surf / Ice Beam / Psyshock / Thunderbolt
2. Gliscor / Poison Heal / Impish @ Toxic Orb
- Protect / Substitute / Earthquake / Toxic
3. Scizor / Technician / Adamant @ Leftovers
- Substitute / Swords Dance / Bullet Punch / Superpower
Strategy: Basic resistance-based synergistic team, can look at it as a combo of Special Attacker / Staller / Physical Attacker, or can look at it as Choiced Sweeper / Staller / Set Up Sweeper.
Obviously I chose Starmie over Latios on this run, because I don't want to stack the ice weakness. Instead, I have Starmie for the Electric weakness (as well as Earthquake neutrality which Latios lacks) so Gliscor fairly easily often switches in on an immunity.
How I lost: I played really bad. I was too sleepy I guess haha. Opponent had a Tauros Lead. I thought that Starmie should be able to OHKO Tauros with Specs Surf because from what I remember its Sp Def and HP weren't that high (I thought they were same as Lucario's actually, which so far were OHKO'd more often than not). Of course now I know Tauros has 5 base HP more. Surf did not KO. Giga Impact OHKOs Starmie and then KOs Tauros from Life Orb recoil. So then it was 2 vs 2.
I brought in Gliscor. Opponent bring in Typhlosion. I Protect in case it's the Eruption one so I can stall out a PP at least. And it reveals that it was indeed the Eruption one. I was fairly certain that my Gliscor can take a full power Eruption since I have a fair bit of HP and some Sp Def EVs. So that should be all good, except for whatever reason it did not occur to me to use Earthquake instead of Toxic. I had no idea what I was thinking. Gliscor is at around 30% I think after taking the Eruption. So Toxic hits. Poison Heal, Poison Damage, Protect, Eruption #2 is protected, Poison Heal, Poison Damage. After the 2nd Eruption Gliscor was at around 55% and of course Typhlosion is at 81% from the 2 turns of toxic poison.
For whatever reason I thought to risk Gliscor surviving the next Eruption. Looking back, the obvious best move would be to switch to Scizor to die while Typhlosion takes another turn of poison. Gliscor back in to Protect for healing + another turn of Poison, at which point the last Eruption will do so little damage that Gliscor should be able to have a sub up with about half health left facing the last opponent, but nope, none of that happened as that 3rd Eruption KOs Gliscor.
So obviously almost all is lost, except if I get a crit Bullet Punch which won't KO Typhlosion but would put it to low enough health that Eruption won't KO.
Heh, I misclicked Swords Dance instead. I'll try this team again before I potentially try another gimmick team that I thought of just now.
Well I usually suck pretty bad at the battle subway, rarely making it past battle 21, but I just started trying the balloon-tar + excadrill lead combo and I just started tearing through everything. I don't even know what happened, but I just lost with a 54 streak.
@ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
- Rock Slide
- Brick Break (only because I made it in 5th gen so I couldn't get low kick)
@ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Rock Slide
@ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Light Screen
- Helping Hand
@ Electric Gem
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Hidden Power Ice
Pretty standard movesets/sand storm. Will get Latios in there soon enough and might replace Thundurus with Zapdos for more bulk.
would using Substitute over Protect on your Milotic give you better survivability since you can dodge status moves, and easily recover from behind one.
Got a 167 Super Doubles win streak with the team I used before (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3749402&postcount=509)
I made two changes:
1. Gave Toxicroak a focus sash instead of black sludge. Small change, but major impact - made battles where I faced two unfavorable leads incredibly easier. Healing from Dry Skin and Drain Punch more often than not brought Toxicroak back to full health within a couple turns after being knocked down to his focus sash.
2. Swapped Focus Blast on Politoed out for Psychic. Not as important, but has the benefit of revealing an enemy Toxicroak's ability and subsequently OHKOing Dry Skin ones. Occasionally useful against teams packing 4 water types.
I lost at battle 168 to a legendary trainer with Articuno, Tornadus, Thundurus, and one unrevealed Pokemon. Fake Out Tornadus + Surf, Tornadus KO, Articuno down to about 1/3. Articuno Blizzard, Politoed down to 2/3, Toxicroak down to a sliver and frozen. Thundurus in. Toxicroak frozen solid on the Protect, Articuno Sky Drop Toxicroak, Thundurus Thunderbolt KO Politoed. Omastar in. Omastar Ice Beam fails to OHKO Thundurus, Toxicroak faints to Sky Drop and Omastar faints to Thunderbolt. Parasect in, Blizzard KO.
Picture for proof: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/img0030kl.jpg/
I haven't posted about myself in a while and I've fallen down a bit on the highscores, but the thing is: DragMag is the only team I like in Subway which wasn't even that serious of a team at first. Set-up teams take so absurdly long that I can't stand to use them any more, (I tried multiple times,) so all I can use is hyper offense. And I've tried a few teams, some are secret because I strongly feel that they will work eventually, but really it's all about DragMag. It has very few weaknesses that I don't know how to deal with, it's incredibly fast-some fights are as fast as Dragonite using Outrage 3 times-and it's actually fun. I'm having trouble creating new hyper offense teams though so I just keep using the tried and true. Link for reference
My rain team does great on Subway until I meet Kingdra. Is there anyway to stop Kingdras shitting all over me short of using my own Swift Swimmer or stop using Rain?
Ferrothorn fears only freeze hax from Kingdra. There's also Empoleon and Quagsire. Some of bulky waters should be able to handle it. You can use Dragonite as well. Survives a hit with Multiscale and KOs back with Outrage. You'll have to revenge or switch on DD though.
Well after just getting back into it, I easily passed 86, so I'll just post a quick picture in a matter of haxy turns
Wow a horrible misplay almost ended me at 87, I had let my guard down after Garchomp used Earthquake on my Dragonite and then Marowak used Low Kick on my Dragonite
Nevermind fuck that shit I lost to a Rock Slide flinch for like the 37th time in Subway
I haven't been playing much Pokemon lately, but today, I was playing Super Multi train with my gf Sally and we beat #49 with this team:
1. Reuniclus / Magic Guard / Modest @ Life Orb
- Psychic / Shadow Ball / Protect / Trick Room
2. Scizor / Technician / Adamant @ Flying Gem
- Acrobatics / Bullet Punch / Protect / Superpower
1. Togekiss / Serene Grace / Quiet @ Lum Berry
- Follow Me / Protect / Air Slash / Aura Sphere
2. Azumarill / Huge Power / Brave @ Splash Plate
- Waterfall / Aqua Jet / Brick Break / Protect
EDIT: O yeah, it used to have Return > Brick Break, but then since it was just traded to Sally, Return's damage output seemed pretty low. Brick Break was pretty much the next best option, because it's only at level 24 too (It learns Double-Edge at level 33).
- Both of her pokemon were bred by me and traded to her since she's not really a competitive battler ... Her favorite pokemon's Togepi / Togekiss though, so I was experimenting some things a while ago and bred a couple quiet Togekiss, so this was one of them. It's not bad!
- The team was made rather on the spot. A few hours ago my Scizor still had Swords Dance and Sub instead of Acrobatics and Protect (i.e. it was a Singles set up sweeper). So yeah, just TM'd those moves in for doubles.
How we lost: Oh, we didn't yet, hah, but we probably *should* have lost vs the subway boss Emmet and Ingo, because it was only during the battle when we realized that the entire team was REALLY Eelektross-weak. A crit KO'd Reuniclus earlier than it should, and then I was telling Sally that we probably lost this, but I was wrong, as the opponent's Haxorus KO'd Eelektross with Earthquake for us.
At the end it turned out to be Sally's full health Azumarill vs 30% health Haxorus and 100% health Archeops, with trick room just having ended. It might not look too good, but I told her that we probably have this won unless Haxorus crits, because Aqua Jet OHKOs Archeops. (Of course if Archeops protects then it's sort of bad too).
So yah, Aqua Jet OHKO'd Archeops. Haxorus EQ for less than half damage. Haxorus EQs again. No crit. Waterfall KOs Haxorus. (Even if it didn't, Aqua Jet next turn definitely will anyway).
We're not going to use this exact team again to continue the streak, so I figured I'd just do a brief write up on it. I think we need at least 70 for record though, right? Haha. O well. We'll get there sometime.