@atsync: Yeah I did mention in my earlier post that one of Dragonite's biggest negatives was its inability to deal with status like Suicune could (I even mentioned the scald removing freeze I think). I do think that Suicune can set up on more things than Dragonite can (without any crippling support), but yeah I just thought it's not so accurate to say that it "sucks". The other "argument" is that self-sufficiency is not entirely about being able to set up (though that should be a big part). It's also about being able to sweep after setting up. I.e. if I could fully set up with either Suicune or Dragonite, I would choose Dragonite almost every time (only exception would be facing flamebody/static leads), because Dragonite basically beats things with more confidence than Suicune due to Suicune's lower speed and attacking power even after fully setting up. This is a minor point though of course, but still a point to be considered.