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Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.
Even if you are faster to set up, won't crithax eventually be your downfall?
Yeah probably! That's why I put sub on everything to reduce that. I don't just start CMing right away. Of course Sub first while it is still at -1 or -2. Chances are good that it only does one or 2 CMs before attacking and failing to break Suicune's sub, so that gets Suicune even more time to set up.
Snorlax is way more prone to crithax than Suicune though because after a couple curses most things still outspeed Snorlax -> so have to use sub predicting that sub will be broken instead of re-subbing after sub is broken, which means a miscalculated early broken sub followed by a crit on unsubbed Snorlax could mean not being able to set up. So far that only happened once (vs a Speed Boost Yanmega I think, which kind of made the Snorlax speed issue moot, because it outspeeds Suicune after a couple speed boosts too), but Suicune was lucky enough to CM twice on the giga drain without getting crit and then resting and subbing again (after two CMs, Giga drain does not break Suicune sub anymore).
By far the most threatening thing to this team are straight out hard hitters. ... Like the Choice Band Archeops. I didn't really have a reliable way to deal with that actually. I just got lucky that time facing that thing as a lead. It went like:
Trick (obtained Choice Band, Archeops got my Scarf).
Head Smash (75% damage --> This means if I didn't trick, Head Smash would have OHKO'd.) Archeops is still a bit over 50%, so Defeatist not activated yet.
Switch to Suicune.
HeadSmash (looks to be around 60% damage to Suicune, so obviously defeatist is activated now. With Defeatist activated I thought I could take one more Head Smash while I Lum Rest back to full health, so at least it would be 25% Uxie, and 2 full health set uppers vs 2 full health opponents.)
Head Smash KOs. Recoil KOs Archeops also. I bring Uxie out. Opponent brings out some Special attacker that was slower than Uxie.
4. Uxie Tricks Choice Band to the Special attacker. etc. etc. Snorlax was able to set up. Certainly got lucky there.
That one and the Yanmega one were the two closest battles so far I think. So yeah, I don't expect this team to get extremely high, but heh, we'll see how high it goes.
EDIT: Currently playing, but whoa, surprised to find out that Ghost Curses go through subs now. I had Uxie Memento on Golurk for Suicune to set up. Suicune has sub up, but Curse still drains energy. Still won, but yah, didn't expect that.
EDIT2: Blah... ok, lost with 104 streak. Lost to a team that I think had Flatter Gothitelle, Belly Drum Charizard followed by Toxic / Energy Ball Sceptile.
Uxie Trick. Gothitelle Flatter.
Gothitelle Flatter. Uxie hurt self.
Gothitelle Flatter. Uxie hurt self.
Switch to Charizard. Uxie Twave.
Uxie Stealth Rock. Charizard Belly Drum.
Uxie Memento. Charizard Fire Punch. Suicune in.
Suicune Calm Mind. Full Paralyzed.
(Should have tried subbing, but was stupid).
Suicune Surf. Charizard fainted.
Sceptile beats Suicune and Snorlax between Toxic / Energy Ball / Leech Seed.
O well, at least it got over 100. Will try something else next time.
Hey how is everyone doing. I am currently testing a new team of some pokes i still wanted to test in battle subway. Here they are:
adamant Tyranitar @ lum
252 att / 252 spd / 6 hp
jolly Gliscor @ toxicorb
252 hp / 1 sdef / 252 spe
And the last member Ferro. I am working on a new ferrothorn as this is just the same ferrothorn that carried me through Pokemon Black =). Dont know anything about his ev's or iv's but i wanted to test him first. Gawd this thing is unkillable! Once i have leech seed up i can either switch to gliscor to wtfbqqhelicopter stall or just start setting up curses
Serious (lol) Ferro @ lefties
iron head -> going to be Gyro
Currently heading to 49 which is not all that special, but so far i did not have any problems with anything. My question is what would be a nice ev spread for the ferrothorn? Move will stay the same. I am not sure if i should go for Sassy or Relaxed. Also does anyone have a suggestion to the team? Something i might have to change?
That team seems solid enough, but you really really don't want your streak to end due to a Stone Edge miss, which will really miss more often than you'd like eventually. You might want to try Rock slide instead, and even then that might sometimes miss. If you do not mind, Crunch + EQ already has good coverage, so you can just opt for sub or rest on your last move.
Sub gets you assurance at times when you set up. Also, there are SO many pokemon that try to Twave or status you first turn in Subway, so if you sub first turn (or DD to outspeed first turn), take the twave with Lum, and then sub again while they continuously try to status you, you just get free boosts. Lum Rest (or Chesto Rest if you want) to potentially get some more boosts is also cool.
I hope your Ferro's last move is actually Sub? If not, it should be. :P
Also thanks Peterko for updating :P
EDIT: Currently at 77 right now with this team:
Jolteon / Volt Absorb / Modest @ Choice Specs - Thunderbolt / Volt Switch / Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Ice 70
Gyarados / Intimidate / Impish @ Leftovers - Substitute / Dragon Dance / Waterfall / Earthquake
Porygon2 / Trace / Bold @ Eviolite - Toxic / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Recover
... Jolteon and Gyarados are the same old ones I used in previous streaks (and they work decently well), but yah, Porygon2 is new, and it is pretty amazing. Many pokemon in the Battle Subway make use of their ability in some way, and trace just lets Porygon2 switch in for free or minimal damage somewhat often, but what's more amazing is its fairly insane bulk after equipping Eviolite. A "not slow anymore" Regigigas Drain punch doesn't even 3HKO Porygon2 (just mentioning that since that just happened in the last battle I had)*, and a lot of times P2 can Toxic and then Recover stall even STAB neutral moves. Porygon2 is also my status taker if there was some unavoidable status that I need to take.
*EDIT: Actually I just did the damage calculation. It does have a chance to 3HKO (not very high), but after one Gyarados Intimidate it doesn't even 4HKO and not even guaranteed 5HKO on Porygon2.
I don't like how AI seems to ignore Jolteon's Volt Absorb sometimes and tries to Twave him (and then I switch to Gyarados and end up getting him paralyzed instead).
Anyway, I'm not sure how I'm still having this streak going, because it still sucks vs Curse Ferrothorn. Haha, that thing is annoying to deal with without a fire move (it was the sole reason why I was trying Choice Specs Zapdos earlier since it has Heat Wave).
What do you think of good teammates for this?
* Gardevoir *
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Hmmm, so i lost to some haxxy blizzard. I need to make a "real" ferro now and I am leaning torwards this set that I saw before.
Sassy Ferrothorn @ lefties
Sub / Power whip
@Chinese dood Hmm dutch isnt it ;) same here.
The problem with ditching SE is that i cannot OHKO wallrein anymore. Something i really like. On the otherhand, Sub could help me against that haxxy sheercold / fissure one.
About ferro: I love power whip it is so strong against those water types. I seem to draw a lot of water types which ferro just loves. You really think Sub will help me against them?
One last thing about this gliscor....OMG he can be more annoying (and funny) than a breloom. Sub + protect costs me 1 hp! Basicly if i have Toxic up there is not chance for the other poke to kill if it isnt faster. The only problem for gliscor are pokes like:
-Crobat (which can be SS stalled but...meh rather not
-**Basicly every levitating poke that is immune to Toxic :(. And that is also how i lost 1 on 1 against a fucking weezing :((
96-00890-62547 -> funny battle with an awsome ending, i won and that was cool
-Tried some online battles with Gyarados / Gliscor & Ferro with some....*GREAT* succes. Will try this team for now. It is a shame that i lose the lovely sand storm damage from T-Tar, but i gain water resist + fighting resist + intimidate. Guess this should bring *some* succes. Only thing I now hate will be Wallrein + lati@s hmm we shall see that happens
@Cl0wn: I've been asked that a couple times before, but hehe, no, not Dutch, just Chinese.
Regarding TTar: There's Low Kick if you want to ensure KO on Walrein after a couple DDs, but Low Kick's coverage with EQ isn't that great (it's great with Crunch though). Or, yeah, Rock Slide isn't too bad as an alternative. Stone Edge miss happens quite often though, so I'd personally stay away.
Regarding Ferro: My understanding is that after you've used leech seed on the water type, chances are, it won't be doing that much damage to Ferro with their probably unSTAB ice moves (unless their secondary STAB hits neutral or super effective). In that case, having sub for assurance is a good thing. I haven't actually used Ferro yet though, but apparently a few others here have used it to much success (using sub as last move), so you can experiment yourself.
For me, I just got up to 112 streak with my current Jolteon/Gyarados/Porygon2 team.
A couple close calls. One was where it was somehow just my P2 left, full health facing a low health Sheer Cold Articuno (which has 3 Sheer Cold PP left, so it has to 2 more chances at Sheer Cold due to P2's traced Pressure). I was thinking I was going to lose this, but it used Mind Reader and P2's TBolt KO'd it.
I think the last battle I had (for 112) was a little bit close too. Jolteon KO'd Slowbro, locked into TBolt. Abomasnow enters, I switch to Gyarados, takes a Blizzard, gets frozen but thaws out next turn. I somehow decided to let Gyarados die (trying to DD and see how long it lasts)... P2 comes in, takes a bit less than 50% damage from Blizzard, so I can probably stall out Blizzard PP, but, of course P2 gets frozen also, but lucky again it thaws out next turn (otherwise probably would have lost unless I thaw out the turn right after). Toxic + Recover + occasional Ice Beam beats out Abomasnow. Somehow I don't remember what the last pokemon was, but P2 beat it.
Forgot to mention, probably at least 2 out of every set of 7 streak, Jolteon just sweeps with its Specs TBolt (It swept Dragon teams with Specs HP Ice before too, but that's rare). So the battles in this team are usually fairly fast with little set up. I set up Gyarados when I can, but most of the time it doesn't even fully set up.
It was kind of funny in this battle where Jolteon was badly hurt from Gardevoir (Psychic Gem Gardevoir which barely survives Jolteon's Specs Shadow Ball and then gets Jolteon down to 13 to 15 HP with its Gem boosted Psychic). And then a Jolteon came out next. I switch to Gyarados to scout for what move it's using. Shadow Ball.
Switch back to Jolteon to regain health from Thunder.
Switch to P2 to take nothing from Shadow Ball.
Toxic (to test out whether or not the op's Jolteon will use Thunder even though P2 has Volt Absorb).
It Yawns. Switch to Gyarados. Yawn again.
Switch to Jolteon. Recovers health from Thunder.
Switch to P2. Shadow Ball / Yawn.
Switch to Gyarados. Yawn.
Switch to Jolteon. Recovers health from Thunder. ... etc. Of course, Jolteon eventually faints from Toxic, but my Jolteon regained 75% of its health back with nothing else damaged. Oh, and the last pokemon that came out for that team was a Zebstrika, which was equally funny because it was the Me First / Wild Charge / Volt Switch / Twave one, which means it has nothing to attack Jolteon and P2 with other than Me First, but P2 just use Toxic (Me First fails) and stalls a short while with Recover (except I used Ice Beam to finish it off because it kept using Twave to boost P2's SpA since it traced that Zebra's Lightningrod). Anyway, P2 is fun.
EDIT: O yeah, my team has the most trouble with high base power STAB Special moves that I have no resists for. Blizzard is the most obvious one, of course. I say Special moves, simply because Gyarados has Intimidate and the fact that this P2 is physically defensive (After an intimidate, Archeops' Choice Band Head Smash does not 2HKO P2. Oh! And, Adamant Machamp (not Intimidated) only does max 73% to P2 with Close Combat).
EDIT2: Currently at 140 streak! Yay! Beat my old record and still continuing! Lol my last battle was funny. It was an electric team (Zebstrika, Jolteon, Electrode). After Porygon2 traced Zebstrika's Lightningrod, all they can do is Swagger, Pursuit, and Twave. P2 was at +6 Attack already from Swagger (but confusion hurt self still does very little damage), but yeah, all 3 of the electric types just keeps Twaving after Swagger (all 3 had Swagger too) until P2 was at +6 Special Attack from Lightningrod. +6 Attack +6 Special Attack (and recovered back to full health) without even having any stat boosting moves.
Got to 105 wins in Super Singles.
Tyranitar @ Focus Sash
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
This thing works so ridiculously well. Anything with a Fighting type attack always tries to OHKO it, and then gets demolished by Counter. Stone Edge and Crunch for obligatory STAB, and EQ for coverage. I try to keep TTar alive when I can, but I don't mind it falling to 1 HP too much. The other two Pokemon on the team usually get the job done if TTar took out at least one Pokemon.
Excadrill @ Life Orb
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Typical Excadrill is typical. This thing outspeeds just about every Pokemon in the Subway and destroys everything that is weak to it. It has an Adamant nature, since a Jolly nature would be unnecessary because of the fact that all other Excadrill in the Subway are Adamant/Naughty with no Speed EVs. Its moveset is pretty standard, so there isn't much to comment on.
Latios @ Choice Specs
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Powerful as hell. Specs Draco Meteor takes out most Pokemon that don't resist it. Thunder is generally better than Thunderbolt, since it is more powerful and can take out any Water types that set up rain. Psychic is for Fighting types, and Dragon Pulse is there as secondary Dragon STAB in case I don't need to use Draco Meteor. Latios also resists many of the things Tyranitar and Excadrill are weak to, giving it a very important role in the team.
How I lost:
Went up against Veteran Jeune. She sends out Regirock while I send out Tyranitar. Not knowing which Regirock this is, I decide to go for Counter since all the variants carry either Drain Punch or Superpower. It ends up Cursing twice and eventually hits TTar with Drain Punch, and then TTar Counters to knock it out.
In comes Tornadus. It uses Focus Blast, takes out TTar and takes recoil damage from Life Orb, meaning that it is Tornadus 1. I go into Latios and select Draco Meteor, assuming that it would survive a Hurricane or Dark Pulse from Tornadus (a big misplay, Excadrill and Rock Slide would have been the better choice). Of course, Tornadus uses Hurricane and confuses Latios. Sigh. Latios then hurts itself in confusion, and Tornadus finishes it off with Dark Pulse.
At this point I know I've lost unless I get lucky with the final Pokemon. I take Tornadus out with Rock Slide. Then, unfortunately, Suicune comes in which pretty much seals the deal. I use Earthquake which takes around half of Suicune's HP away, and it destroys Excadrill with Surf. I definitely should have brought Excadrill in first against Tornadus instead of Latios, although it wouldn't have made much of a difference if hax hadn't come into play.
Oh, and here's the Battle Video: 69-36127-20530
OK, lost at 178 streak in Single Battle Subway with this team that I didn't even think would get this far:
Jolteon / Volt Absorb / Modest @ Choice Specs
IVs: 22 / 30 / 26 / 31 / 31 / 31 *
EVs: 4 Def 252 SpA 252 Speed
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice 70
- Shadow Ball
*Just a note totally unrelated to anything relevant: this is the very first pokemon I've ever specifically bred Hidden Power for way back in my Diamond cartridge (which I lost since last year somehow but thank goodness it was transferred to my Platinum) before RNGing in Pokemon was much heard of... I'm just glad it's still useful despite its imperfect IVs :P.
Gyarados / Intimidate / Impish @ Leftovers
IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / x / 31 / 31
EVs: 252 HP 252 Def 4 Speed
- Dragon Dance
Porygon2 / Trace / Bold @ Eviolite
IVs: 23 / ? / 29 / 30 / 31 / 31 (not sure, but I think something like that, this one was bred back in Diamond days too, but didn't record IVs)
EVs: 252 HP 252 Def 4 Speed (also a wild guess)
- Ice Beam
- I'm surprised this team made it this far, because it really didn't have too much of any specific strategy.
- Basically Jolteon tries to OHKO whatever is leading (and hope the next thing is KO'd by my locked move), and if I know Jolteon won't OHKO, then just Volt Switch for somewhat massive damage.
- 99% of the time I'm switching to Gyarados. I can't really think of any case where I'd switch directly to Porygon2 (not that it can't take it, but dunno why... I probably should sometimes I think for obvious advantageous ability trace switch ins).
- Jolteon's Tbolt OHKOs things nearly all fighting and fire types that aren't resisted (Gallade, some Machamps and Hariyama and Magmortar are some of the exceptions).
- Obviously Gyarados's main job is to switch into EQs and then intimidate. Often times, vs physical leads, I can just keep switching between Gyarados and Porygon2 until opponent pokemon is at -6 Attack, and then Porygon2 just recovers and then Gyarados can just sub up and DD away. Waterfall + EQ is horrible coverage, but at least it's 100% accurate and EQ allows me not having to fear Static and Flame Body pokemon.
- Porygon2's bulk is just pretty amazing. After one Intimidate, it can even stall out most STAB Close Combats assuming no crits (I never do that though of course, since Gyarados can switch into those Close Combats for more Intimidating).
Threats (encountered so far):
- Bulky Volcarona almost broke my streak today around 150 streak when Jolteon's 2nd Tbolt failed to KO Volcarona after it used Quiver Dance first turn (Jolteon still outspeed after one Quiver Dance). I've faced this Volcarona around 3 times before and every time the 2nd Tbolt KOs Volcarona. Maybe I rolled high damage before or just unlucky that time. Since it had leftovers, I was doubtful that Porygon2's Tbolt will KO the Volcarona even though it's low on health, so I used Toxic instead. P2 fainted after surviving one +2 Heat wave, and Gyarados got a lucky Hurricane miss (and luckily the 2 pokemon after that were manageable by Gyarados). Next time I should just Volt Switch to Gyarados on first turn though, since I realized (now) that none of the Volcaronas have Ancient Power to threaten Gyarados, so the worse my team should do is Gyarados getting damaged and a burn from Volcarona's Flame Body.
- Curse Ferrothorn almost ended up streak earlier on (nothing in my team hits it for super effective, and only neutral hit - being Gyarados's EQ - is weak unless Gyarados has boosts down), but I've only seen that Ferroseed once after 70-ish streak, and that time Gyarados already had 6 DDs down. If it didn't I think I'll have a quite a bit of hard time.
- Crits (especially on Gyarados). It was a bit scary when Snorlax Double-Edge crit Gyarados for KO first turn when I Volt-Switch out... I forgot what happened after that, but somehow I won, so yay? I think it was the life orb one, and P2 just stalled it out with recover. Usually that's what happens, except it was a bit more scary this time around because Snorlax might have immunity (I forgot if that one did, ironically).
- By far the "move" that is used most often with this team is... switching.**
- 2nd most used move is probably Jolteon's Tbolt which has its fair share of sweeps, closely followed by Gyarados's DD and then Porygon2's Recover
** I remember there was this one recent battle that went like this:
Jolteon vs Braviary (me thinking obvious OHKO with TBolt of course)
1. Tbolt. Wacan activates, Braviary survives and Giga Impact OHKO Jolteon.
2. Gyarados in and Intimidate. Braviary recharge. Gyarados DD.
3. Sub. Giga Impact (breaks sub).
4. DD. Recharge.
5. Sub. Giga Impact (breaks sub).
6. DD. Recharge.
7. Sub. Giga Impact (breaks sub).
8. Sub. Recharge.
9. Waterfall. Braviary fainted. (I didn't want Gyarados' health to be too low, so usually in these situations I only have 3DDs with a sub up.) Donphan in.
10. Waterfall. Sturdy. Stone Edge breaks sub.
... Here of course I can just KO with Waterfall, but instead.
11. Switch to Porygon2. Stone Edge (<25%)
12. Switch to Gyarados Intimidate. EQ... repeat 9 and 10, until Donphan was out of Stone Edge PP and at -5 Attack, at which point, Gyarados was able to DD to +6 with a sub up. I *think* that might have been the battle where Ferrothorn as last pokemon, but might have been another battle.
EDIT: Yeah, I do realize I should have sub on 2nd turn to get one extra turn of leftovers recovery on the recharge. Heh. O well.
How I lost:
Opponent's team was Raikou, Cresselia, Regigigas. Basically lost due to my inability to KO Cresselia fast enough before it was able to Calm Mind up. And also switched too much unnecessarily.
It went something like this (I might have messed up a few turns during the calm minds):
1. Raikou used Extrasensory (around 38% damage). Jolteon used Shadow Ball (around 47% damage).
--> Raikou was faster so it must have been timid. At this rate, Jolteon will lose, so, of course that's where Gyarados comes in.
2. Switch to Gyarados. Shadow Ball (around 30% damage before leftovers).
3. Switch to Jolteon. Volt Switch heals Jolteon.
4. Shadow Ball. Shadow Ball.
5. Shadow Ball. Shadow Ball. Raikou fainted. Jolteon at around 20%. Cresselia in.
6. Switch to Gyarados. Psychic (around 20% damage).
--> Decided I should just wear Cress down with Toxic. (A bit of mistake... I should have done this either one turn ago, or set up with Gyarados, instead of making this unnecessary switch.
7. Switch to Porygon2. Calm Mind.
8. Psychic. Toxic.
9. Calm Mind. Ice beam.
10. Psychic. Ice beam.
11. Psychic. Recover.
12. Rest, Chesto. Recover.
13. Calm Mind. Toxic.
14. Psychic. Recover.
15. Psychic. Recover.
16. Psychic. P2 faints. Gyarados in.
17. Rest. Sub.
18. DD. Sleeping.
19. Waterfall. Sleeping.
20. Waterfall. Psychic breaks sub
21. Waterfall. Rest. (In retrospect, I should have DD twice during sleep instead. O well.)
22-n. I forgot how it went, but after Cress woke up the 2nd time, Gyarados was basically forced to attack hoping Cress would Rest (or even better, flinch), either which would have given Gyarados the win, but instead Cress KO'd Gyarados with Psychic, leaving herself to about 5% HP.
n. Jolteon KO's Cresselia with TBolt (the safest move to be locked into... hoping a legendary bird comes out...). Regigigas in. Pretty much given hope now, but let's see.
n+1. Jolteon Thunderbolt, did a bit more than half, but Regigigas had leftovers. Regigigas used Double Team. So I still have a chance!
n+2. Tbolt hits but did not KO Regigigas. Double Team #2.
n+3. Tbolt miss. Toxic.
n+4. Tbolt miss. Double team.
n+5. Tbolt miss. Double team. Jolteon faints.
178 is not bad at all, so I'm happy enough with this for the time being. Probably no more single Subway for me for real this time, until, maybe this gets knocked off top 5 or something. I dunno, just arbitrarily setting that. I'll get a pic up soon.
Disregarding an actual example, this is the problem with "slow" set ups such as snorlax/ suicune/ registeel.
> best case scenario and it's 2v2 and Bulky is at max hp, max stat up, with sub
> 2 critical hits by two faster pokemon, which is not that common is 1/256 or 0.4%. Keep in mind because you're slower you don't get to set up sub after first sub breaks.
> 1v1 situation where you're last set up sweeper faces a random subway pokemon.
0.4% may seem low, but without factoring in anything else it averages 1 loss in 256 battles. That's not counting in things like focus sash and/or roar/ destiny bond. Admittedly, that is assuming that snorlax is the slowest pokemon (not true) but it comes with the given best-case set up. Without a sub the situation is even more dicey.
Speed is still the most important stat in pokemon.
In Snorlax/ suicune's defence, they are almost bulky enough to get through it, just be careful with almost anything else.
I suppose Keldeo would be an event pokemon in the event that it's not in the next game, a bit disappointing really. I wouldn't put it past the next game to have a larger battle facility.
Wouldn't it be best to just put 172 Speed EVs to outspeed everything(the fastest on the speed tier list is Manectric 4 at 258 Speed) under Sandstorm? Then you can dump the remaining into HP to be bulkier. Just a suggestion. :)
Currently at 49 battles at Doubles. This is my first time trying competitive despite playing from Gen 1. I'm really hoping for a record here. Doubles are definity faster and funner than Singles, for me at least.
EDIT: Fu@*&!!&! Lost at battle 67! Excuse me while I rant to my dog....*rageface*
That's actually a very good point. I will do that. Thanks.
Almost lost because I was button mashing while watching T.V (long story short, I should have EQ'd a Heatran with my Gyarados, but instead used Waterfall. Heatran lived and almost killed my weakened Gyarados with a -2 Overheat crit). Close call. About to start the rounds with the Subway Master.
The team I'm using (very boring and self explanatory):
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
I was debating Leftovers + Dragon Claw for a little more bulkiness, but quite a few Pokemon in the subway take 2 DD Dragon Claws to kill. For now the Lum Berry is doing great. Prevents annoying statuses from stopping my setup or allows more Outrages. Multiscale and EV spread for obvious reasons. DD lets me outspeed almost everything, and there aren't a lot of things that won't fall to a DD Outrage. EQ to kill off the steel types that resist Outrage, and Fire Punch for the Steel types that are neutral to EQ.
Metagross @ Life Orb
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Dragonite's switch in/revenge killer. Resists ice/rock/dragon, Meteor Mash for main STAB attack, Bullet Punch for revenge, EQ and Thunderpunch for coverage. Nothing more to say. I was debating Leftovers but I'd rather just hit harder for the kill than attack twice and heal off a small portion of whatever I get hit with.
Gyarados @ Focus Sash
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
This is a really bad Gyarados build for this team. I'm only using it for it's typing, which allows it to switch in for Metagross. Since I usually only bring it in to resist for Metagross the Focus Sash is kind of pointless as it would most likely get used up before I get a chance to DD. Probably going to put Leftovers on him. Since it's a switch in and not a lead, having Moxie and DD probably isn't going to be as useful as Intimidate and Bounce. Stone Edge is hardly used and when I do it usually misses, so I'm probably going to replace it with Ice Fang or Protect.
Just got the game (FINALLY). This thread is wonderful, i remember you guys doing the same with platnium, which was a blast to read. Now, i'm going to go ahead and give this a shot for a bit...i have yet to get my second badge, but i'm going to try to beat all the leaders and finish the game so i can get to the battle subway, sounds fun.
I have yet to think of a team though, hell, i don't know how to ev train in this gen, i'll learn.
Been playing subway for a while, just bothered to post here now. I started out playing Doubles since I had my VGC Team made, albeit non rnged. Got a streak of 193 using these:
Tornadus (Jolly) @ Flying Gem - Protect/Tailwind/Brick Break/Acrobatics (4HP/252 Atk/252Spe)
Chandelure (Timid) @ Focus Sash - Imprison/Trick Room/Shadow Ball/Heat Wave (4HP/252SpA/252Spe)
Jellicent (Timid) @ Water Gem - Ice Beam/Shadow Ball/Hydro Pump/Water Spout (4HP/252SpA/252Spe)
Terrakion (Jolly) @ Fighting Gem - Protect/Quick Attack/Rock Slide/Close Combat (4HP/252Atk/252Spe)
Main idea was just to set up Tailwind and sweep with Jelly/Terrakion, while Chandelure would stop Trick Room from going up. Had quite a few close games along the way and eventually lost because of a Heat Wave miss on Raichu turn 2, which meant it later ended surviving an attack with its Sash and koing my last.
I retried with an RNGed version not long ago. Changed Chandelure to Modest, Jellicent to Modest and with Protect>Hydro Pump, and Life Orb>Fighting Gem on Terrakion. The team worked better, but I got haxed at battle 83 with a Rock Slide miss on Scarf Pinsir and then Earthquake crit from that Pinsir on Jellicent. Might try again some point later.
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Also had a go at the multi train a while ago with the same team (the non rnged one) since I have two dses and games so could just put 2 on each. It went incredibly slow as can't disable battle scene, and eventually lost on battle 53 mainly because I had it as Tornadus and Jellicent on one game and as Chandelure and Terrakion on the other. Usually Tornadus faints first so I had it like that to get Jellicent in Taiwlind as quick as possible, but this time Chandelure fainted first and I had to bring out Terrakion vs Quick Claw Donphan and something else, which ended up costing me, combined with me being far too careful of Quick Claw and so wasting a Quick Attack on Donphan, when Terrakion could been used better attacking the other mon (I think it might have been Lanturn or something).
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I've recently started playing the singles subway as finally bothered to ev train my rnged Milotic and Metagross. Lost at battle 70 with these:
Latios (Timid) @ Life Orb - Hidden Power Fire/Surf/Psyshock/Draco Meteor (4HP/252SpA/252Spe)
Milotic (Bold) @ Leftovers - Toxic/Recover/Ice Beam/Scald (252HP/252Def/4SpA)
Metagross (Adamant) @ Shell Bell / Air Balloon - Agility/Earthquake/Zen Headbutt/Meteor Mash (148HP/252Atk/108Spe)
I had a few tries before this run, the first time Latios didn't have HP Fire and I got 3-0ed by a Curse Ferrothorn as not even a crit Earthquake from Metagross could OHKO, while it Rested off everything. So I changed to HP fire and then never saw it again, but HP Fire still proved useful for Scizor and certain Grass or Steel mons. A lot of teams would just get straight out swept by Latios, while Milotic was very helpful for Toxic stalling the Ice-types Metagross couldn't handle. I didn't use Metagross too much unless needed or I saw an easy Agility opportunity, but it helped a lot vs some Ice-types with a super effective move vs Milotic, as well as providing some useful resistances. Shell Bell was used at first, but since it doesn't recover that much HP, I often used Air Balloon instead, although it often would just get broken if I had to switch it in on a resisted hit anyway. On this eventual run I didn't have too many problems till battle 70 where I got destroyed by hax. Was facing the Expert Belt Medicham with Hi Jump Kick/Zen Headbutt/Ice Punch/Bullet Punch or something like that. Latios misses Draco Meteor and got OHKOed by a crit Ice Punch. Brought in Metagross and Hi Jump Kick did a lot and then Meteor Mash missed and Metagross got KOed the next turn. Then brought in Milotic and stalled out 6 Hi Jump Kicks or so with none missing and then a crit Hi Jump Kick to end the streak. Probably should have just Psyshocked turn 1 but wasn't sure if it'd KO. Might retry it at somepoint later, but was just happy to beat all 3 subway bosses 9.9
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This has certainly been asked before, but what is the best team to get to 49 in SSs and SDs in White easily? I don't hack, and I've caught all the legendaries, none with good IVs. All I want is the star on my trainer card....
yes wifi dpes count streaks actaly
Will a record be discounted if the Sky Drop Gravity bug is abused?
And to Joel, I'm proud of you 9.9
Battle Subway Single Record: 119
Shuckle @ Lum Berry
252 HP, 252 Def
I start the battle with Shuckle using Power Split followed by Rest, then depending on the Pokémon switch out and set up. For strong physical attackers I switch out and back to Shuckle for another Power Split, I use Struggle bug on Special Attackers and use Power Split several times on Special Attackers that set up. For things like Chandelure I faint with Toxic since I can’t set up with my other Pokémon. Shuckle’s really good because Sturdy gives him an almost guaranteed chance to Power Split and because he can usually win in a 1 on 1 battle.
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Iron Barbs, Sassy
252 HP, 252 SpD
Switch in and set up while hiding behind a substitute and healing yourself with Leech Seed, then sweep the team.
Cresselia @ Tanga Berry
252 HP, 252 Def
Cresselia is there for fighting and fire-types that Ferrothorn can’t set up on, basically just set up and sweep. Tanga Berry is there because my team has a weakness against Bugs and because I couldn’t think of a better item.
Spiritomb: The biggest threat I have found, with the right moveset it can taunt, Sucker Punch and burn my whole team to death. So when the opponent has one as their first Pokémon I use toxic and hope it uses will-o-wisp.
Rampardos: With Mold Breaker and Head Smash, Shuckle can’t always set up and then I have to send out Ferrothorn, who takes a lot of damage.
Taunt, Encore, U-turn, Volt Switch, Rock Slide & Iron Head (which flinch Shuckle): Really annoying but I can manage.
Durant: If he flinches Shuckle he can be really hard to take down.
How I lost:
The opponent started with an Emboar, it got a CH Flare Blitz and I used Power Split. I didn’t have enough HP to Rest so I switched to Cresselia and set up and fainted Emboar. Then he sent out Escavalier basically I got its HP down to red then it fainted Cresselia, I sent out Ferrothorn who got OHKO’d by Swarm Megahorn and then fainted from Iron barbs. Then I had 22 HP Shuckle left against a Sawk... If I had bred Shuckle better he would’ve had enough HP to Rest against Emboar and maybe it would have turned out differently but anyway.
Is it just me or does it seem like the Super Multi Line is much harder than the Super Doubles Line? I'm using the same team as I did for Super Doubles, two members having been traded over to another version; everything is identical to that run-through except the ability to switch to either of my two back-ups at any time (I can only switch to the one I have on that same cart). In Super Doubles my team breezed through the first 49 and never got to a 1v1 situation until I lost, and in Super Multi I'm struggling even just in the 20's. Is not being able to switch to either Pokemon really that influential, or was my Super Doubles streak just a stroke of luck?
I'm using my battle tower team from SS currently till I get enough bp's to get all the items I need to start EV training my team and all the choice items/ballon/LO. I have a Starmie, Metagross, Garchomp team and it's working decently enough. Should I replace explosion with bullet punch on my Metagross now that explosion lost it's power this generation or is it still better than bullet punch?
Blah, hate losing to hax.
Just lost with 92 streak in Double Subway with this team:
Krookodile / Moxie / Jolly @ Focus Sash
- Earthquake / Crunch / Rockslide / Protect
Zapdos / Pressure / Timid @ Magnet
- Thunderbolt / Discharge / Heatwave / Hidden Power Grass 70
Rotom-H / Levitate / Timid @ White Herb
- Thunderbolt / Overheat / Hidden Power Ice 70 / Protect
Metagross / Clear Body / Jolly @ Lum Berry
- Earthquake / Ice Punch / Bullet Punch / Explosion
- Should be fairly obvious. Using that Electric/Flying + Ground Combo that is extremely common. No Thundurus because I don't have one (not sure how to RNG that either.. haven't bothered to try to learn), no Garchomp because I don't have one either and I didn't want to anyway.
- Why Krookodile? 2 Things it has over Garchomp:
i) Moxie - After one Moxie boost, Krookodile boasts an impressive 253 Attack. Zapdos is faster than Krookodile, so often times, Zapdos can injure both opponents with Discharge / Heatwave and Krookodile can finish BOTH opponent off for two Moxie boosts in one turn. After that, almost anything neutral to EQ will be KO'd by EQ + Zapdos's move of choice.
ii) Weaknesses - Having many weaknesses (Bug, Grass, Water, Ice, Fighting) compared to Zapdos means that more often than not, opponents will more often target Krookodile instead of Zapdos, allowing Zapdos to have a free hit while Krookodile protects.
- Rotom-H and Metagross are basically for dealing with ice types better (Krookodile and Zapdos do have Rockslide and Heatwave, but both are weak to ice). Rotom-H does not have the attacking power of Zapdos or Thundurus, but it gets the job done more often than not. Metagross's main job is cleaning up. I haven't ever even once had the time/need to explode though, since usually Metagross is the last pokemon out, or if it isn't then it's usually the pokemon I bring out to Bullet Punch something to death for the win, so I might be better off with something else.
How I lost:
- Fairly stupidly. Opponent leads with Moxie Krookodile and Tangrowth.
1. My Krookodile Protect. Zapdos Heatwave misses both opponent. Op's Krookodile Rockslide. Tangrowth Power Whip the Protected Krookodile.
2. Zapdos Heatwave misses both opponent again. My Krookodile EQs. Op's Krookodile Rockslide KO's Zapdos. Moxie boost. Power Whip KOs my Krookodile.
3. Krookodile rockslides again. Rotom-H fainted (might have been a crit? Forgot). Moxie Boost. Metagross Ice Punch Krookodile dead finally. Tangrowth Power Whips Gross for wee bit of damage. Probopass out. I know I pretty much lost unless Tangrowth just keeps Power Whipping Gross and Probopass gets KO'd by EQ and the last pokemon out is also something that Gross can handle.
4. EQ. Probopass gets all the way down... and of course this one had to be Sturdy. Probopass Earth Power for KO.
I suppose 2nd turn maybe I should have HP Grass Krookodile instead of Heatwave, but heh, effectively 4 Heatwave misses in 2 turns... OO yeah, I do realize, if I used Garchomp this wouldn't have happened as it's neutral to Grass and it outspeeds Krookodile. Heh, o well.
@Hutch3: For a single team with Starmie and Garchomp, I'd probably have both Bullet Punch and Explosion (I would have used the same moveset as ... the one in my streak lol, though for my team, I probably shouldn't use Explosion), because Metagross's main job should be cleaning up (while Starmie and Garchomp are your main sweepers). Explosion, while nerfed, still does a lot. If Starmie isn't holding a life orb, maybe Metagross can hold that for more power.
I need some opinions on the potential of a Singles team. It's pretty much just a classic setup and sub Uxie team, but I'm casting what seem to be pretty original characters otherwise:
Uxie @ Choice Scarf
EVs: Hp, Defense, Sp Defense
Gliscor @ Flying Gem
??? (Sand Veil / Hyper Cutter)
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
EVs: Hp, Defense, Sp Defense, Attack
Stone Edge / Rock Slide
There's obviously the weakness to water as it is, but I'm not learned enough to identify any other technical or strategic flaws.
You will have a lot of trouble with water types if you are using two pokemon weak to water.
I used Tyranitar as set up sweeper before in 4th Gen, and you really want Crunch + Earthquake, because Stone Edge (or even Rock slide) missing will stop your streak sooner than you'd like. Also, Crunch + EQ has better coverage anyway (You could go for Rock slide + EQ for even better coverage, but you don't really want to take your chance at accuracy issues). You do not want Outrage for Tyranitar without Lum and without STAB.
Gliscor is not really fast enough to pull off sweeps imo. You're better off with Garchomp and even then it's not as reliable as Gen IV.
Uxie can make better use of Bold or Calm nature, but if you only have a timid one then, that's fine, not too huge of a deal I don't think.
So yah I'd advise using something over Gliscor that can cover for Tyranitar's weaknesses. You have fighting and kind of Ground covered with Uxie, so try to cover as many of Ttar's other weaknesses with your other pokemon (i.e. cover grass, water, steel, bug...) o yah, Uxie will attract some bug moves, and really, Gliscor won't be able to set up on something like tinted lens Yanmega Bug Buzzes. You might not be able to cover everything, but at least use something resisting bug that at least resists at least some of TTar's other weaknesses and is neutral to the others.
Hope that helps.