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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
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    124

    I know it sounds crazy what I'm saying now but I think it was good that you've lost because now you know "how to play better" with your team. Every loss shows new advantages which you can use against your opponet.
  2. Colossus

    Colossus

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
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    Not sure if this is the right thread, but I'm staging a battle against a friend. The plan is to use three level 30 Pokemon, not RNG'd but EVs are allowed. First of all, I'm not sure what to use. I was thinking about Starmie, Drapion, and Snorlax, but I am still unsure. Second, will the EVs be altered due to the levels? (for example, is the basic 4/252/252 spread still usable?).
  3. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
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    If you Ev-train on a low level then yes. A Porygon-Z or Porygon2 insteaf of Snorlax is possible too.
    You can use a Magnezone too (there are Lv.17 Magnetons in the SafariZone from HG/SS)
  4. Colossus

    Colossus

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    Thanks, Jokethe1. If I may, are there any certain Pokemon that would be particularly good to use? (can cover most types, flexible, etc.) I'm definitely planning on Starmie, but I'm not 100% on the other two.
  5. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

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    Difficult to say which other Pokes would be good since a lot of them evolve over Lv.30. Starmie with Magnezone/Heatran seems to be pretty good since they can resist the weaknesses each other. As third poke I would use something physically like Weavile (Alakazam could screw you) or a F.E.A.R Poke for fun.
  6. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

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    Sorry for the double post but I just wanted to say that my Doubles SS team lost in battle 210 because my Ds froze....FUCK!
  7. Colossus

    Colossus

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
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    Update on my team for the competition between me and my friend(s), with no RNGing allowed:

    I chose Spiritomb for my third, and decided to keep Starmie and Magnezone for the time being. I'm running into a few issues, however:

    1) Attempting to catch a Modest Magneton with usable stats is a nightmare.
    2) Breeding is going alright, but it takes forever, even with two parents with 3 perfect IVs apiece. I have a Staryu with 27/31/31/31/31/4, and several Spiritombs with 3 perfect IVs.

    Any suggestions?
  8. syndrome445

    syndrome445

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    168
    Glad to see smogons back up :)

    Anywho, id like to report another streak. This time, in the doubles area. Winning streak: 82, with the following team:

    Cresselia @ Lum Berry​
    Sassy - Levitate​
    IV's: 31-0-31-31-31-0​
    EV's: 252 Hp - 252 Sp.D - 4 Sp.Att​
    Helping Hand - Ice Beam - Swagger - Trick Room​
    Metagross @ Persim Berry​
    Adamant - Clear Body​
    IV's: 31-31-31-11-31-14​
    EV's: 36 HP - 252 Attack - 220 Special Defense​
    Protect - Earthquake - Zen Headbutt - Meteor Mash​
    Snorlax @ Leftovers​
    Brave - Thick Fat​
    IV's: 31-31-31-31-31-0​
    EV's: 252 HP - 36 Attack - 76 Defense - 148 Special Defense​
    Curse - Body Slam - Crunch - Fire Punch​
    Cofragigus @ Sitrus Berry​
    Sassy - Mummy​
    IV's: 31-0-31-31-31-0​
    EV's: 252 HP - 4 Defense - 252 Special Defense​
    Protect - Trick Room - Shadow Ball - Nasty Plot​
    The team was alright. I didn't really plan it out so well, i used it for the fun of trick room which im not too experienced with using. The idea was simple and gimmicky, i knew i wanted Cresselia on my team but i wanted it to provide a much more supportive roll to its teammates as opposed to being a bulky threat itself so i thought, " why not swagger + lum berry?". Many pokemon came to mind, like Tyranitar but its common weaknesses didnt appeal to me. So i turned to Metagross, an old favorite. After that, developing the Cresselia and the Metagross was easy, helping hand was used to strengthen Metagross's attack Ice beam was used to at least have some sort of attacking move in the case where Cresselia is taunted. Metagross has a speed IV of 14 so that at level 50 it could underspeed my minimum speed Cresselia under trick room. I also gave it special bulk so that it could take certain unboosted Fire type attacks, such as Fire Blast from hydreigon. In an optimal situation 1st turn Cress would trick room while Metagross would protect, next turn Cress swaggers my Metagross ( hopefully Metagross doesnt avoid it ) and Metagross uses the appropriate attacking move. I didnt really have a clear idea of what to put next on the team so i decided to use a Curse Snorlax without rest, because i thought using Curse and rest would be kinda slow in doubles and Snorlax would greatly appreciate the recovery from leftovers. I gave Snorlax some overall bulk.. nothing too special and the EV's do seem random actually xD Noticing i had no real way to fight fighting types, i added Cofragigus. Slapped Trick Room on him, and decided to use Nasty Plot + Shadow ball because i figured it was bulky enough to set up at least once. Protect was added for its usefulness and to be able to protect it from my own Metagrosses EQ's ( which surprisingly was really common ). All in all, decent team, decent streak. I think i wouldve done better had i actually put mor effort into the team. But it was fun and thats all that mattered to me :) I dont remember how i lost though, and i didnt save the video :/​

    EDIT: i am/was user jrod88 ( who is supposed to be syndrome445 , but for some reason shows up as jrod88 ) but i couldnt log into my previous account for some strange reason. Ill be using this one from now on.
  9. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
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    Although I said a few months ago that I was done with Subway, I have just made a liar out of myself. It was worth it though.

    Battle Subway Super Multi Streak (with friend): 162 wins

    [​IMG]

    I did this solo with 2 3DSs on Black 2 and Black. It took about 2 weeks or so, although it might have been quicker if I wasn't doing other things at the same time.

    Team 1

    [​IMG]

    Tornadus @ Flying Gem
    Jolly
    ivs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
    evs: 4/252/0/0/0/252
    stats: 155/167/90/x/100/179
    Prankster

    Acrobatics
    Taunt
    Tailwind
    Substitute

    [​IMG]

    Swampert @ Life Orb
    Adamant
    ivs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
    evs: 4/252/0/0/0/252
    stats: 176/178/110/x/110/112
    Torrent

    Earthquake
    Waterfall
    Ice Punch
    Protect

    Team 2

    [​IMG]

    Infernape @ Focus Sash
    Hasty
    ivs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
    evs: 0/252/0/4/0/252
    stats: 152/156/81/124/91/176
    Blaze

    Fake Out
    Close Combat
    Flamethrower
    Protect

    [​IMG]

    Hydreigon @ Life Orb
    Timid
    ivs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
    evs: 4/0/0/252/0/252
    stats: 168/x/110/177/110/165
    Levitate

    Dragon Pulse
    Dark Pulse
    Flamethrower
    Protect

    This is basically the same team as my best Doubles Streak here. There is only 1 difference: Swampert now holds a Life Orb instead of a Muscle Band. Life Orb has always been my preferred item for Swampert, and now I can actually use it because I don't have item clause getting in the way. If you want to read about the team then check the link.

    I've actually been thinking about doing a Multi streak for a while. I was trying to think of an interesting team to try it out but I got nowhere with any of my ideas. In the end, I said "screw it" and just went with the team I used for Doubles. It ended up working just as well. Normally I would be a little bit worried about simply transferring a Doubles team to Multi because you aren't able to choose which Pokémon you want to switch in when you want to switch out (i.e. I can't switch Swampert in for Infernape, and I can't switch Hydreigon in for Tornadus, because they aren't on the same game card). In this case it didn't matter. Normally that is how I would want to switch anyway. Swampert has good synergy with Tornadus thanks to its Rock resistance and Electric immunity. The lack of Ice resistance is a shame but it's not a huge problem. Tornadus can also switch in to Grass attacks for Swampert, but situations where I would need to make this switch are rare (I think there was 1 instance of this in the whole streak, against a Virizion). I don't think I need to say much about how well Infernape and Hydreigon pair up since that has been well documented in this thread. Very occasionally I would be left wanting to get Tornadus to switch in for Infernape if Hydreigon died so I wouldn't have to worry about Swampert hitting it with Earthquake, but other than that there aren't any problems with the set up.

    I play this team basically the same way in Multi as I did in Doubles. There are a few differences to consider though. Because I face 2 separate Trainers with 2 Pokémon instead of 1 Trainer with 4, I'm sometimes able to gang up on 1 Trainer so I have more Pokémon on my side then they have on theirs. This isn't a new insight or anything (anyone who has played Multi will tell you this) but it's noted regardless. Furthermore, facing 2 different Trainers means that I rarely have to face a full team of 4 from a particular trainer type. For example, I rare have to face 4 legendary Pokémon on the 1 team because this will usually only occur if I just happen to generate 2 legendary Trainers in the one battle (it happened once in the whole streak). Therefore, I only have to face 2 legendary Pokémon and 2 other Pokémon most of the time so it usually won't be as difficult.

    The trickiest battles, depending on what Pokémon I actually face, tend to be those where I can't determine the Pokémon I'm facing straight away (think Bikers Petro/Phillipo, legendary trainers, etc.). This team can answer pretty much any threat most of the time but if I don't know how I'm suppose to answer it then the battle will be tougher. This actually contributed to me losing in my final battle. Had I known the specific set of one of the backups, I would have played differently and it would have been fine I think.

    I didn't save the final battle, but it was a mix of hax and misplaying. I should say that I don't run damage calculations when I play since I'm lazy, but had I done I would have played the final turn VERY differently! I lost to Biker Petro (all 4 sets of a mixture of offensive and defensive Pokémon) and Harlequin Athos (Trick Room). Petro sends out Salamence and Athos sends out Slowbro 4. Not a great match-up from the start (Intimidate sucks) but I'm not particularly worried yet. In my experience, Trick Room Pokémon will always set up Trick Room in Doubles if both of the Pokémon on their side are slower than both of the Pokémon on my side, even if it can kill one of my Pokémon (note that most of the Trick Room Pokémon I face are Psychic-types and can OHKO Infernape, so the fact that they have always gone for Trick Room instead is why I think this way). Therefore, I decide to Taunt Slowbro to block it, while using Fake Out on Salamence.

    However, this Slowbro was special. It used Surf instead, which dealt a critical hit to BOTH Tornadus and Infernape. I suspect that the game knew that this was going to happen, because it goes against everything I have experience with Trick Room Pokémon. I can't really prove that though, and nothing I can say will change what happened. On the plus side, Salamence took Fake Out and Surf damage, so I decide to hit it with Acrobatics. However, I'm not sure what to do with Infernape. I could switch out or use Protect to prevent myself from dying, but I was worried that Slowbro would use Blizzard. Therefore, I decide to use Flamethrower. Salamence dies to Acrobatics and Slowbro takes a Blaze-boosted Flamethrower. Slowbro kills Infernape with Psychic, so I send Hydreigon in, hoping to kill Slowbro next turn...

    ...except that Petro also sends out a Hydreigon. I don't know which Hydreigon set I'm facing, and I know that some of them run max speed like mine. Not wanting to risk the Speed tie, I Protect with Hydreigon and use Tailwind with Tornadus to remove the risk. Petro's Hydreigon uses Dragon Pulse against Protect, which means it's Hydreigon 1. This Hydreigon has a Rash nature which means that had nothing to worry about in the first place. As I said before, not knowing the Pokémon straight away is what threatens me the most. Slowbro uses Blizzard to kill Tornadus, and in goes Swampert.

    I use Dark Pulse to finally kill Slowbro, Ice Punch falls short of a OHKO on Hydreigon, and my Hydreigon dies to one Dragon Pulse. Athos sends in Iron Ball Seismitoad. I kill Hydreigon with Ice Punch while Seismitoad puts me in the yellow with Earthquake (i.e. Earthquake will kill me next turn).

    This is where I really messed up. I didn't think Earthquake would OHKO it, so I decide to use Waterfall to try for a flinch. Waterfall leave Seismitoad with a sliver of HP, and I lose.

    Had I just used Earthquake, I would have won. I could have played Infernape better instead of letting it die so easily, and I'm not sure if killing Slowbro instead of Hydreigon was the best idea either (maybe it would has survived an unSTABed split-damaging Blizzard?). So yeah, this could have been avoided with better plays, but I'm happy with the streak I got.


    Wouldn't Return or Double-Edge be better in this case? I don't think the paralysis would be helpful under Trick Room!

    Good job on the streak. 82 is pretty good for a Trick Room team.
    syndrome445 likes this.
  10. syndrome445

    syndrome445

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    168
    Now that i think of it, return wouldve been a much better option, thanks for reminding me! I will note to change that if i ever try another go with this team.

    Now, im here to report another streak in Super Doubles of 161 consecutive wins, with the following team:

    Thunderus Therian @ Focus Sash​
    Modest - Volt Absorb​
    IV's: 31-2-30-31-31-31​
    EV's: 4 Hp - 252 Sp.Att - 252 Speed​
    Protect - Grass Knot - Hidden Power (Ice) - Discharge​
    Mamoswine @ Ice Gem​
    Adamant - Thick fat​
    IV's: 31-31-31-25-31-31​
    EV's: 4 Hp - 252 Att - 252 Speed​
    Protect - Earthquake - Ice Shard - Rock Slide​
    Garchomp @ Yache Berry​
    Jolly - Rough Skin​
    IV's: 31-31-31-28-31-31​
    EV's: 4 Hp - 252 Att - 252 Speed​
    Earthquake - Outrage - Rock Slide - Fire Blast​
    Terrakion @ Life Orb​
    Jolly - Justified​
    IV's: 31-31-31-28-31-31​
    EV's: 4 Hp - 252 Att - 252 Speed​
    Protect - Close Combat - Rock Slide - Quick Attack​
    I liked this team a lot. It was fast, and it was fun. The idea of this team came from a Garchomp-Zapdos duo i used to use in generation 4, only this time i revised and replaced that dou with one that i think works better. The main thing i didnt like about zapdos-Garchomp was that they were both weak to ice, so i had to come up wiht some sort of solution, and it came to me: Mamoswine. He can provide my team with the same coverage as Edge-Quake but with a spread move in the form of Rock Slide, and as a plus Mamo can give my team a very useful priority move in the form of ice shard to get rid of pesky dragons. Protect found its way onto its moveset because well, protect is a staple and i thought Mamoswines typing might attract certain attacks, and with protect it can act as a decoy for one turn while Thundurus T takes advantage and ( in an optimal situations ) KO's/dents the opponents pokemon. I chose thunderus t to pair with mamoswine because of its sky high special attack, and thats the main reason why i chose him. Discharge is the logical spread STAB move of choice for obvious reasons and with Hidden Power Ice thunderus has a useful pseudo Bolt-Beam coverage that along with Mamoswines pseudo Edge-Quake coverage, is very hard to wall. Grass Knot was added for annoying things like Rhyperior, Swampert, Gastrodon and others. Focus sash was used because Thundurus is pretty darn frail.​
    Although i didnt like his weakness to ice, i still kept Garchomp on my team. garchomp, is a monster. Enough said. Outrage and EQ are nothing new, i added Fire Blast soley for Ferrothorn and Rock Slide is a solid spread move.​
    Terrakion was a wierd choice IMO, but i mainly added him to hit hard. Like Garchomp, and to hit Ice types hard. Mainly Walrein because i hate the damn thing. Although quick attack does seem gimmicky, it did have its usefulness more than i expected and do not regret using it. I rarely wished i had X-Scissor.​
    All in all, a pretty solid and fast team that does require a bit of.. idk. Practice? Mamoswines weird bulk and Thundurus's frailness made me feel uneasy the entire streak to be honest. Heres the battle video in which i lose: 21-91798-58459​
    and heres a pic of my record now being set at 161 for now:​
    [​IMG]
  11. NoCheese

    NoCheese It's not just a house...it's a maison!
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    183
    Big shame with the forum changeover is that all of the leaderboard links to the streak writeups are broken. But that seems waaaay too much of a hassle to fix. Time to get used to using the search function to hunt down earlier streak writeups...
  12. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    Yo! I haven't posted or visited here in a long time! Finally got to meet Jumpman at VGC Nats 2 days ago, and decided to revisit this thread again.

    Maybe I'll try some subways again sometime soon!

    I was thinking of either an all choice team too, just because stat drops + set ups take quite a while for each battle. Or maybe 2 choice and an Eviolite Porygon2 or something because that thing was pretty awesome last time I used it (and I used one at VGC too heh).

    If I were to use stat drops + set up though, I think I might want to try something like:

    Lapras / Shell Armor / Careful @ Leftovers
    EVs: obviously mostly HP and Sp Def.
    - Curse / Ice Shard / Drill Run / Sub

    EDIT: O yeah, of course, I was thinking, other than Drapion, Lapras is one of the more viable Shell/Battle Armor pokemon with good defensive stats. Lapras' typing is not amazingly ideal though.

    Has other people tried something along that line?

    EDIT2: Currently trying out this team:
    Landorus-T / Jolly @ Choice Band - U-Turn / Explosion / Earthquake / Rockslide
    Bronzong / Relaxed @ Leftovers - CM / Psyshock / Signal Beam / Rest
    Porygon2 / Bold @ Eviolite - Toxic / Tbolt / Ice Beam / Recover

    I haven't even exploded once yet, but then again I haven't done very many battles. Lack of certain resistance synergies might be a problem. Anyway though, I'm only using this for now because I don't have very many pokemon in my Black 2. I anticipate that I'll probably lose the streak before 100 with this team.
  13. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Nice to see you posting again Chinese Dood. And it's nice to see Landorus-T get some more use. I used it in doubles with a Choice Scarf to get a 100+ win streak. It works pretty well with Intimidate and STAB Earthquake off of 145 Attack, but I wish it had a more interesting physical move pool.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Pokémon Platinum Battle Arcade Singles Streak: 161 wins

    [​IMG]

    Did this for the Orange League ages ago but have been too lazy to post it until now.

    My team was something like:

    Latios
    Dragon Pulse
    Psychic
    Thunderbolt
    Hidden Power Fire

    Milotic
    Surf
    Ice Beam
    Hidden Power Grass
    Recover

    Metagross
    Iron Head
    Earthquake
    Bullet Punch
    Explosion

    Don't know the IVs for certain since they weren't RNGed although they weren't complete junk either. These were just things I had lying around in one of my 4th gen games from before I started RNG abuse. EVs were something like Timid with max Speed/Special Attack for Latios, Modest with max Special Attack/defences for Milotic, and Adamant with max Attack/some Speed/rest into defences for Metagross. (I probably gave it enough Speed to beat Heatran? That's what I would normally do.) I think it ended up pretty similar to the team Mercury used, but with Latios instead of Latias. Hidden Power Fire seemed pretty weak on Latios so it may have had low power - I don't think I use it much and another move may have been better.

    Arcade is arguably the easiest facility thanks to no hold items (no Brightpowder/Quick Claw to ruin your day) and team preview. But of course the roulette can stuff you up. It's not so bad initially since it's easy to control but later on you really should be taking a "first do no harm" approach. I'd rather just hit a poison-my-team tile rather than risk missing a paralyze-their-team tile surrounded by Trick Room/other bad tiles. I don't really like the give-my-team-items tile either; I often got crap like Lagging Tail when I tried.

    I got lucky a few times to get this far, but I ended up losing to a legendary trainer with Latias, Regice, and Regirock. Don't remember the battle turn for turn but I remember being dumb and unnecessarily switching Latios out for Metagross which ended up frozen by Ice Beam. Didn't thaw out in time, and that left me without my only good answer to Regice.
  14. syndrome445

    syndrome445

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    168
    Right now im trying out a Rain offense team in super doubles, and im at 400 wins right now and still going. I'm using a Scarfed Politoed, Life Orb Ludicolo, Leftovers Scizor, and a Focus Sash Thundurus-Therian. But i will go into further details when i am finally overwhelmed by hax, misplays, a superior opponent, or a combination.

    [​IMG]
  15. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    Messages:
    4,754
    Hey bud! Great to see you at Nats, and glad to see you posting again. I think I'm going to as well, because I have faith in my gen five teams

    Anyway, I lost.

    962.JPG

    Twice.

    2516.JPG

    I lost in White because Cryogonal is a dickhead that CHed with Blizzard on Mesprit and CHed Dragonite with what I believe was its last Blizzard, can't remember if it used Blizzard twice on Whimsicott (I Charmed intentionally turn 1 to waste a Blizzard PP, but sometimes pokes use "Icy Wind" or another filler attack instead of the move they used on Turn 1). Mesprit Tricked, got hit by Blizzard, then CHed to die, then Draggy obviously got CHed. I could have maybe used Thunderwave on Cryo instead of Trick but it had a full slate of Icy Wind PP and it would take a few FPs for Draggy to get set up comfortably...and it's not like I could have switched Draggy into Cryo without sacrificing Mesprit at any point so yeah. "Whatever", let's just say I'm not done with the Single Subway in Gen 5 just yet...

    Anyway, I got bitten by the Platinum bug because of Nats, actually, and specifically when I thought I lost Platinum out of the four games I had in my pocket (White, HG, Plat and Pearl). I found it a day later wedge in my iPhone holster and was so relieved I decided to pick up my streak again, very carefully. Things were going well until I faced a PI who led with Metagross, which my Mesprit/Drapion/Garchomp team has to Trick and then TW. I did that but not before it got an attack raise on Mesprit. I always have to SD naked with Garchomp, and I know that I survive +1 Meteor Mash as it does 82-97% or something. I indeed SD and it isn't FP and hits with MM, taking me to 18/183 HP. I EQ for the kill, expecting some stupid crap to come out and kill me, and PI River sends out Drifblim.

    "80% of them are Aftermath" (I'm really not even exaggerating, it's way, WAY over 50%), and I'm resigned to my fate...except it's an Unburden one somehow?

    http://www.psypokes.com/hgss/frontier_teams.php?id=289

    This is a convenient list of all the pokes PI River uses (for EVs, SA = Speed, SD = SA and SD = Speed, probably an importing/coding error on psypokes' fault). I have some hope as +2 Outrage does a shitload to basically everything I can face (Regirock and all Steel Types I could face besides Bastiodon, Zone and Probopass have QC meaning I can't face them) and I'm faster than everything but Electrode and Dugtio. Can't face Forretress, Steelix and Bronzong because of item clause. It's still not a pretty situation because besides the things I mentioned, pokes like Heatran and Gliscor are trouble for 18 HP Garchomp and unboosted Drapion. This is all basically a testament to how much of a dick Metagross was in Gen 4 (MM/ZH/EQ/Boom with QC, and Clear Body to stifle Charm/Flash).

    Anyway, I kill Drifblim, don't die to Aftermath, and then Dugtrio comes out. Uses Night Slash for the KO, and hits with the first Fissure on Drapion where it definitely would have lost as I would have spammed Sub until it was out of Fissure PP (it doesn't have EQ). In hindsight I can most be annoyed that Metagross got that attack raise because it's an AA/NS/Giga/Fissure Duggy that certainly cannot kill a 63-81HP Garchomp (its HP after taking an unboosted MM from Metagross) without a CH (somewhat more likely with Razor Claw) or hitting with Fissure. Its Giga Impact actually only does 65-77 to Garchomp, and now that I calc it, a CH NS only does 62-74 and a CH AA 62-74, so it basically has to use and hit with Fissure on Chomp AND Drapion to beat me, which isn't a nonzero chance (9%) but yeah.

    Sucks to lose but I feel fine because I didn't misplay...only thing I could have done was switch to Drapion on Drifblim after Chomp killed Metagross. Explosion does 103% min though (lol Gen IV Explosion), and with it being 2-2, the AI could use Boom on Drapion on any random turn, which is a problem because while Drapion can beat an Air Cutter/Shadow Ball/Boom/Ominous Wind Driflim heads up (especially being faster) and retain its Sub, I 100% cannot use Acupressure because I can't do it behind a Sub (lol Gen IV Sub/Acupressure rules) and that would be risking Drapion for "no reason". A Drapion with a Sub but no setup is just not better than a +2, 18 HP Garchomp in the end given my situation, as I would have to risk Acupressuring naked and getting a lucky Defense or Evasion boost to affect an impending Explosion, and that still wouldn't have helped against a faster Fissure user. So it sucks but I'm happy I didn't misplay even in hindsight. Moral of the saga is fuck Gen IV Metagross.

    I'd've uploaded the battle video for my Platinum streak instead if it weren't massive effort for everyone involved lol. It's a little liberating to have lost, I guess, in both White and Plat, cause now I don't have to worry about Gen IV 3v3 anymore and I can try some stuff in Gen V that I've always wanted to! While bringe me to why I quoted Chinese Dood...I've built an all-Choice team I rather like:

    Scizor@Band: Bug Bite/UT/BP/Superpower, Adamant, 86HP/252Atk/172Spe, Technician
    Salamence@Scarf: Outrage/DC/EQ/FF, Adamant, 4HP/252Atk/252Spe (lazy lol), MOXIE
    Gastrodon@Specs: Surf/Scald/Earth Power/Ice Beam, 252HP/4Def/252SpA, Storm Drain

    Using this team I now fully realize why TRE/R Ina have the Doubles record: Storm Drain is laughably broken. Leading with Scizor draws enough water moves to where Storm Drain can be fully taken advantage of, and the AI just uses the moves over and over and over. Makes me wish Gastrodon got Rock Polish somehow. The rest of the team is kinda of self-explanatory even from a synergy standpoint, with FF on Sala mandatory for the Bug/Steel crew and CB Bullet Punch perhaps being the most valuable move on the team. Even with this all, I feel the team is kinda shaky, because it hates strong Fighting and Flying leads like Flying Gem Braviary and HJK in general because Salamence can't OHKO the offenders and Gastrodon is too slow to not be 2HKOed, but "it's an all-Choice team what do you expect". I could give Salamence more (read: any) bulk, but it does like breaking the speed tie Typhlosion and Starpator at 228 speed with a Scarf, so 252 Speed EVs instead of say 116 Speed EVs (for 202 with a scarf and faster than Scarf Skarmory) has more merit than it would have in past gens (like in Gen 4 with "Bulky" Scarfchomp on my StarTarChomp team). It's a lot of fun to sweep with a lead U-Turn to Salamence which uses Outrage and Moxie to just mow down at least two pokes, so I'll see if any tinkering is warranted. Yay for long posts.
  16. syndrome445

    syndrome445

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    168
    So i ended up losing my streak, because i'm an idiot who misplayed at first, and then failed to take advantage of another winning opportunity.​

    Battle Subway Super Doubles: 529 Wins.​

    Let me just get straight to the pokemon starting off with the main perpetrator of this grand assault at the subway: Politoed
    Politoed @ Choice Scarf
    Drizzle - Modest
    IV's: 30-2-31-30-31-31
    EV's: 4 Hp - 252 Sp. Att - 252 Speed
    Lvl 50 Stats: 165-72-95-155-120-122
    Moves: Scald-Hidden Power (Grass)-Ice Beam-Psychic

    Ludicolo @ Life Orb
    Swift Swim - Modest
    IV's: 31-0-31-31-31-31
    EV's: 4 Hp - 252 Sp. Att - 252 Speed
    Lvl 50 Stats: 156-67-90-156-120-122
    Moves: Giga Drain-Ice Beam-Scald-Protect

    Scizor @ Leftovers
    Technician - Adamant
    IV's: 31-31-31-27-31-31
    EV's: 252 Hp - 252 Attack - 4 Sp. Def
    Lvl 50 Stats: 177-200-120-63-101-85
    Moves: Swords Dance-Bug Bite-Superpower-Bullet Punch

    Thundurus Therian @ Focus Sash
    Volt Absorb - Modest
    IV's: 31-2-30-31-31-31
    EV's: 4 Hp - 252 Sp. Att - 252 Speed
    Lvl 50 Stats: 155-99-90-216-100-153
    Moves: Thunder-Hidden Power (Ice)-Grass Knot-Protect
    I don't even know where to start. But as you can see it's obviously your average looking Rain abusing team. I started off with Politoed, and being a big fan of Offense and fast paced battles i decided to Scarf it to make up for its lack of speed. I chose Modest over Timid because i eventually knew i wanted Ludicolo to pair up with it when the battles begin and figured since Ludicolo is so fast it can take out threats or weaken them if necessary. But overall i thought Politoed might've been too weak had i chosen Timid, and i do not regret choosing Modest. Scald over Hydro Pump because i have had my cases where Hydro Pump misses not once! Not twice! But yes, THREE TIMES! Sorry, but it got to me when it missed that many times and have ever since opted for Accuracy over Power. I mean, Scald is still powerful when you factor in STAB and the Rain boost. And it also comes with a nifty chance to inflict a burn so it wasn't a hard choice. HP grass was for those pesky water/grounds ( Gastrodon -__-) and for opposing water types if i ever needed to 2KO ( well not 2KO but double target with Ludi's Giga Drain) a certain water type, such as Slowbro or Vaporeon, or even Slowking before it sets up Trick Room. Ice Beam for dragons as usual, and for grass types i knew i could KO with a double target ( with Ludi's Ice Beam) like Tangrowth or Serperior. The last slot was a filler, Psychic. I could've also chosen Focus Miss Blast for Ferrothorn exclusively but it just doesn't seem to much of a great idea to lock myself into a move with such terrible accuracy.



    I ended up having to defeat Ferrothorn by a combination of Scald burns and Ice Beams/Thunder/Scald, which might seem like a problem on paper but it didn't ever become an issue as i didn't face too many Ferro's anyways. Ludicolo is deadly. My favorite pokemon on the team behind Scizor. Life Orb Scalds are just ridiculously powerful in the rain and his blazing speed is just insane. Nonetheless, he came with some issues. Ludicolo unfortunately is incapable of OHKO'ing certain things, most notably, Medicham who's HJK's are a pain in the ass. As such i had to usually ALWAYS double target Medicham with Scald so i dont get hit by a HJK. I never got hit by one, but i dont want to find out whether it does OHKO my Poli or Ludi. And that was a very important thing when using this team: Prioritizing my threats. for example, if the opponent sends out a Froslass and a Granbull ( just a hypothetical situation ), i would double target the Granbull with Scalds because Froslass can't do much to Poli or Ludi while Granbull can Double Edge and deal a much larger amount of damage. While this may seem obvious, it was a, if not the, largest factor when i used this team. Ice Beam is nothing new. Giga Drain either, it allows me to heal off damage and LO recoil. It also served as my alternative Grass type move if i didn't want to lock Poli into HP Grass, trust me, it's a bad idea. And Protect was a TREMENDOUSLY useful move.



    Ludicolo's Grass typing became a sort of double edged sword for me. While it may have been weak to Poison and Flying type moves, that also served me to my own benefit. When an opposing super effective move was going to hit my Ludi ( like Gunk Shot from Muk) i would Protect while Poli 2KO's or if i had to, switch into Scizor and absorb all the Poison type moves targeted at Ludi. And thats another important thing about this team. The lineup. i chose to send out Poli for obvious reason and Ludicolo for its sheer power but i led with them because their poor, well not that poor, typing allows numerous switches from Scizor and Thundurus Therian. It was just hilarious seeing Scizor take Leaf Storms from Sceptile and Gunk Shots and Blizzards and all sorts of shenanigans just to slowly recover it all off with Leftovers and even manage to set up ( seeing Froslass and ice types became a blessing, not an omen :D) Scizor, it's the same one i used in my modest 154 win streak in singles with no changes. Swords Dance and Lefties is just an amazing thing. Trick Room teams were easy to handle because of Scizor's resistance to Psychic and Ghost attacks, being able to set up with ease in front of nearly anybody (bar Spiritomb with W-o-W) . Bullet Punch was as useful as it ever was. But up to here you've seen things anybody would use, and my last option is something that might not be everyone's preferred choice (read:Kingdra): Thundurus Therian. He provided me with a solution to my teams gaping weakness to electric types, and gave me a reliable switch in for Politoed when it was threatened by two lead opponent fast electrics ( Zebstrika, Electrode, Jolteon, Manectric ). While unable to OHKO any of them, Thundurus T could at least wall them and or allow my teammate to do something, usually Ludi's Scald. I gave it Modest, and honestly because i thought i would lose hundreds of battles earlier to go hunt for a Timid Thundurus :D and because i was mesmerized by Thundurus's ridiculous Special Attack. In all honesty, it's speed was never an issue. NEVER. Looking back i find that oddly strange, but hey more power to me. Literally.



    The battles themselves? Pretty.. short. Majority of battles were me spamming scald or spamming something else and winning boring battles in like 5 or 6 turns. Maybe one every 14 battles actually gave me a challenge. Trick Room teams were a threat, while manageable, because i still had to prevent things from setting up to many Calm Minds ( Musharna ) and be able to control them effectively by just literally overwhelming them with my powerful STABs. Sandstorm teams were annoying and in my opinion just stupid. I would usually face lead T-Tar + other thing or lead Hippowdon + other thing. Generally id switch out Poli for Scizor and switch back while hitting hard with Ludi and the the problem was solved but around battles 180-220 or so i had to deal with maybe 8 or 9 sandstorm teams. THAT HAD BOTH T-TAR AND HIPPOWDON. It was just a big waste of time having to reset weather if it was necessary, but after that, the sandstorms declined. Hail wasn't much of an issue and i slowly became glad to face them because Scizor could easily set up and sweep. There was this Walrein though. a Big FAT pain in the ass. 3 times it managed to land a sheer cold/fissure, and every time it did it would land a consecutive other OHKO move. i remember there was one battle where i lost the weather war, and Walrein OHKO'd my leads, but i still won comfortably (THUNDER!! ). Nonetheless... it was a pretty straightforward brainless easy to use team anybody could use. It was nice to get so far and pass so many records. Unfortunately i didnt make it to the top 3 :/ but i will one day get another go, i don't like that i lost to my own stupid mistakes. You can watch the video where i lost below:


    1st mistake, swithcing into Scizor instead of Thundurus Therian. 2nd mistake, Protecting Ludicolo rather than finishing Virizion with Ice Beam, what was i thinking? Idk... i have more videos on my channel (TheSyndrome445) of my streak vs different kinds of teams ( sorry for bad quality xD ) And here's a pic for more proof-

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
  17. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    Congrats guys on your streaks! I think I don't have to say "sorry" Jumpman because you're still holder of the best Battle Tower Single record here. Of course...the hax was lame in my opinion BUT reaching 2500 + is EPIC...my full respect mate you did your job unbeliveable well! Hope I'll be able to crack 529 wins with icu182 team soon ... stands right now at 70 wins xD. Didn't know that "that" is the new threat for Subway records which was the reason why I was "dead" a while....keep it up guys!
  18. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    I just thought of something and I was a bit surprised I only thought about it now.

    I mean, it is not without its problems, but has anybody tried to use Shadow Tag Gothitelle for the TrickScarf-Setup in Single Subway? Gothitelle does have decent defenses and has access to Trick / Twave / Charm after all.

    The main positive (in case it was not obvious) is that Gothitelle can trick opponent into non-damaging moves and the opponent will not be able to switch due to Shadow Tag. That has been a problem for Subway, because the AI got "smarter" in that they now switch when locked into a non damaging move that will have no effect.

    Maybe I will try this out.

    A question though (since I haven't played out this trick scarf - setup stuff in a long while)... does the AI switch if it is choice locked into struggle? I.e. would it be possible for me Gothitelle to Trick an opponent onto a non-damaging move until PP runs out, and then switch to my set up pokemon to set up on the struggles? (Tricking Scarf back onto Gothitelle after Gothitelle is done its stat lowering is fine in most cases, but I'm pretty sure there are cases where it is more ideal to set up on Struggles if possible).

    EDIT: Blah not sure why it double posted.
  19. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    I think you should cripple with Gothitelle first and then Re-Trick in a an attacking move (if the poke is locked in a non damage move) and then set up with one of your Pokes
  20. syndrome445

    syndrome445

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    168
    Has anybody tried using Baton Pass/Quiver Dance Smeargle ( non Moody )? I'm gunna theorymon here but ive been thinking and i think it would be great to pair it up with Whimsicott for an easier set up for Smeargle, and a Heatran for the sweep.
    Smeargle @ Lum Berry/Focus Sash?​
    Own Tempo - Timid​
    IV's: 31-0-31-X-31-31​
    EV's: 252 HP - 4 Def - 252 Speed​
    Moves: Spore ( obviously, spore is spore ) - Baton Pass - Quiver Dance - and taunt/ingrain?​

    Taunt because it stops opponents from setting up their own pokemon and from using phazing moves bar Dragon Tail/Circle Throw, ingrain provides healing and prevents roar, whirlwind, dragon tail, and cicle throw, but Taunt stops haze and psycho up. No sub because it think the following Heatran would have Sub:​
    Heatran @ Leftovers​
    Flash Fire - Timid​
    IV's: 31-0-31-31-31-31​
    EV's: 252 Sp. Att - 252 Speed​
    Moves: Lava Plume-Earth Power-Dragon Pulse-Substitute​
    With this moveset Heatran prevents status and recovers health with Lefties, and prevents being phazed via Dragon Tail/Circle Throw, as well as having unresisted coverage from any pokemon besides Air Balloon Heatran which i dont think exists from opponent AI. Lava Plume over other fire moves because its still 100% accurate and has a 30% chance to burn, which can help a lot when facing a physical attacker since Heatran gets hard on the physical side more than the special. Unless of course that would be unnecessary after Quiver Dances?

    And the Whimsicott, i thought of making it similar to the Whimsicott used in Traunt Durant streaks combined with TrickScarf mons. Obviously it would lead.

    Whimsicott @Lum Berry/Focus Sash​
    Prankster - Calm​
    IV's: 31-0-31-X-31-31​
    EV's: 252 Hp - 4 Def - 252 Sp. Def​
    Moves: Charm - Flash - Memento - Taunt​
    Taunt to prevent statuses obviously and prevent being used as set up bait. Prankster makes this so sweet, knowing yours will go 1st ( bar Thundurus's taunt i believe? i think theres a thundurus that uses taunt in the subway but i dont know for sure ). Charm is used in conjunction with its Calm nature, a combo similar to Heatran with QD's under its belt and Lava Plume in its moveset. Flash so Smeargle wont have to tank hits but rather avoid them and let him set up. Memento to reduce the opposing pokemons offensive stats, be it a physical, special, or mixed attacker.​
    Ill try this out, as soon as i find my Timid Heatran. But let me know your suggestions or if your experience with Smeargle please? Or any arguements as to why i should pick move/item over another? :D​

    EDIT: the reason for a non Moody Smeargle is simple, i dont want any evasion drops or accuracy drops or something useless like +2 attack -1 Speed or something. And own tempo still situationally helps.
  21. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    I have tried using Moody Smeargle Leftovers with Coil / Spore / Baton Pass / Sub before to get over the accuracy problem. I think it was something like:

    Whimsicott / Prankster @ Lagging Tail
    - Sunny Day / Switcheroo / Taunt / Cotton Spore

    Smeargle / Moody @ Leftovers
    - Coil / Spore / Baton Pass / Sub

    Set up Drapion @ Black Sludge (I might have tried Lum Dragonite with DD/Dragon Claw / Roost / Sub as well, and possibly Acupressure Tentacruel, since I recall back then I used those 3 set uppers a lot).

    I don't really remember how it went, but it most likely went to somewhere between 100 and 200 and I probably lost to not being able to Switcheroo or some Insomnia/Vital Spirit thing. Sorry don't remember.

    I also remember using Moody Smeargle @ Leftovers with something like Spore / QD / Sub / Baton Pass and my set upper was Timid Espeon / Magic Bounce @ White Herb with Calm Mind / Sub / Stored Power / HP Bug (again, that was in BW1, so no signal beam move tutor). Getting accuracy lowered did definitely screw things up potentially.

    ... I might have been wrong about this, but I think at that time I might have been trying out Masquerain / Intimidate @ Sash - Scary Face / Sweet Scent / Struggle Bug / Flash as my lead. Sweet Scent lowering evasion was mainly for in case Smeargle gets accuracy lowered from Moody.

    I don't remember really how any of those teams worked out (other than the Espeon getting somewhere 100+ streak), but I somehow seemed to remember Spore / Acupressure / Sub / Pass ended up being Espeon's best partner (not sure if that one might have been own tempo instead of moody though).

    ***
    Anyway, I think I will go ahead and give Trick-Scarf Gothitelle a try, especially if it seems like nobody else really gave that a go yet, and yeah (in response to Jokethe1), in most cases, I would re-Trick the opponent into an attacking move first before setting up (if it was locked into a non-damaging move originally). Otherwise my opponent would just switch as soon as I switch Gothitelle out for my set up pokemon. In fact, if possible, I might even just give my opponent back its original item and not bother re-Tricking if my set up pokemon can set up for sure after Gothitelle's stat lowering, since Gothitelle having its Choice Scarf back as a potential back up plan could be good.
  22. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124

    In my opinion you should use ShellSmash because even without the Defense lose Smeargle will almost every time hang on its Sash. WhiteHerb on Heatran is simple fourthemore you sweep faster and more powerful. I've seen the team in a video...is it that one? https://www.pokecheck.org/?bid=471490471720
  23. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    Currently at 98 with this team:
    Gothitelle / Shadow Tag / Timid @ Choice Scarf
    - Trick / Charm / Thunderwave / Flash

    Bisharp / Defiant / Adamant @ Leftovers
    - Swords Dance / Substitute / Sucker Punch / Low Kick

    Dragonite / Multiscale / Adamant @ Lum Berry
    - Dragon Dance / Substitute / Dragon Claw / Roost

    I probably really should be using Brick Break instead of Low Kick because Low Kick is so weak against quite a few pokemon. There were a few close calls, when I was not able to set up for one reason or another. The lack of Electric resistance seemed to be a major source of most of the close calls. Pokemon like Choice Scarf Manectric meant Gothitelle could only Flash, and then Dragonite will need to Dragon Dance three times in order to outspeed.

    I could use Registeel + Calm Mind Latias/Latios to have perfect resistance coverage, but Registeel has such a slow set up, and Latias/Latios is not as reliable as Dragonite. So o well, I will see how far this one goes.

    EDIT: OK! I finished this singles run with 108 streak. Of all the things I could have potentially lost to, I ended losing to Lax Incense Psych Up Cobalion.

    Gothitelle fainted.
    Dragonite was at +6/+6 with a sub set up, at 75% health facing Cobalion.
    Dragon Claw miss. Cobalion Psych Up.
    Cobalion Iron Head Breaks sub. Dragon Claw miss.
    Cobalion Iron Head KOs Dragonite. Bisharp comes in.
    Cobalion Iron Head flinches Bisharp.
    Cobalion Iron Head KOs Bisharp.

    If Dragonite was at full health (multiscale), I could have had one more turn of attempting to attack, but o well.
  24. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    Huh? I'm kind of surprised of your loss. Didn't you Trick Cobalion and started crippeling it? Or did you miss with Trick while it finished you off with a IronHead or did you hurt yourself during Swagger?
  25. syndrome445

    syndrome445

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    168

    Ah yeah that wold be my team :D although that one went particularly well, i still have a difficult time facing things like Bisharp, and U turners, as well as of course, hax :/ Shell Smash seems like a good idea. Ill try that out too.

    Ive tried a a variety of things so far, TrickScarf latias so far being my favorite lead. thats probably been my biggest problem so far, either finding the best lead crippler, or being able to use it correctly, but ill learn. Moody over Own tempo, after a fair amount of battles i figured its more beneficial to stat boost faster, even if it is random stats, and to be able to boost stats like evasion accuracy and defense. Ive found that even if my accuracy is lowered i could just keep quiver dancing until i land a +2 accuracy. As of now ive enjoyed this smeargle set the most:

    Smeargle @Focus Sash​
    Moody - Timid​
    252 Hp - 252 Speed - 4 defense​
    31-0-31-7-31-31​
    Ingrain - Substitute - Quiver Dance - Baton Pass​

    Gothitelle sounds like a good idea. I might try that out.

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