Greninja is outran at +1 unless it's scarfed. Water Shuriken just isn't strong enough. Dragalga's stats aren't too good but it is why I slashed in EQ. MegaZard Y gets its sun turned against it with Flare Blitz
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Pokémon Blaziken
- Thread starter Spenstar
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You know what, I think I might be wrong about Blaziken. At first, I thought his most devastating role would be as a Baton Passer who just so happens to have the ability to kill. Then I've tested his Baton Pass sets a fair bit, and found that while it is still a very powerul strategy that few teams have a consistent answer to, often times I find myself looking at the teambuilder thinking about what to pass to. So far, I haven't really found anything consistent enough to give me the kind of sweep I want, as a bit of luck, an obscure mon, or a missed KO tend to get in the way. There are just too many contingencies to cover to devote so many resources to Baton Passing.
After having had my fill of Baton Passing gimmicks, I went back to the basics and started straight up sweeping. IMO, it seems that teams now are even less equipped to handle this guy than before, despite the 'new car smell' and plethora of tricky mons Gen 6 brought. No, he is not a 'perfect' sweeper by any means, as he does almost as good a job of killing himself as the opponent. In fact, even with that obscene power at his disposal, he's quite difficult for inexperienced players to use; anticipating the opponent's moves and knowing when a resisted attack will kill is a crucial part of his gameplan. Using Blaziken now requires Stealth Rock, good timing, and some educated guesswork.
Despite his instability, trying to switch into him is still way too punishing. Azumarill alone loses over half its health + SR trying to get in on him, and just gets set up on like mad when it's locked into Aqua Jet. Talonflame actually can't switch in at all, and keeping rocks on the field is still about as easy as it always was. Back in the day, we at least had Slowbro, but the way the current meta is, he's just too easy to prey on.
Long story short, Baton Passing is cool, but Blaziken is still far and away the most threatening sweeper in OU, and nothing he passes to can even compare.
After having had my fill of Baton Passing gimmicks, I went back to the basics and started straight up sweeping. IMO, it seems that teams now are even less equipped to handle this guy than before, despite the 'new car smell' and plethora of tricky mons Gen 6 brought. No, he is not a 'perfect' sweeper by any means, as he does almost as good a job of killing himself as the opponent. In fact, even with that obscene power at his disposal, he's quite difficult for inexperienced players to use; anticipating the opponent's moves and knowing when a resisted attack will kill is a crucial part of his gameplan. Using Blaziken now requires Stealth Rock, good timing, and some educated guesswork.
Despite his instability, trying to switch into him is still way too punishing. Azumarill alone loses over half its health + SR trying to get in on him, and just gets set up on like mad when it's locked into Aqua Jet. Talonflame actually can't switch in at all, and keeping rocks on the field is still about as easy as it always was. Back in the day, we at least had Slowbro, but the way the current meta is, he's just too easy to prey on.
Long story short, Baton Passing is cool, but Blaziken is still far and away the most threatening sweeper in OU, and nothing he passes to can even compare.
I think how you want to use BP Blaziken is not "Baton Passer who can kill" but rather "Killer who can Baton Pass". Boost up, start sweeping with your monstrous STABs but then pass out when something he can't handle appears.
That's how I used my Blaziken LONG ago in the DW metagame
People see Speed Boost + Baton Pass and the first thing they think of is dedicated Baton Passing. I guess it's Ninjask's fault
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Very true. I feel a Dragonite is a pretty nice partner. Water or ground moves are scary for blaziken. Dragonite is immune to one and takes the other without problem, He would also like the speed and attack boost blaziken can offer.
Dragonite was mentioned as a good receiver for the +(X) Speeds Boosts and +(X) Attack, if you run Sword Dance.
Is there a Pokemon that can take all of Blazikens Super Effective hits and make use of the + Attack and Speed?
I was thinking of a Bulky Gyarados with its Mega Stone. It resists Water Attacks, immune to Ground attacks and takes neutral damage from Psychic and Flying. Even a +1 Attack and Speed Mega Gyarados is enough to clean up whatever Blaziken couldn't kill.
Is there a Pokemon that can take all of Blazikens Super Effective hits and make use of the + Attack and Speed?
I was thinking of a Bulky Gyarados with its Mega Stone. It resists Water Attacks, immune to Ground attacks and takes neutral damage from Psychic and Flying. Even a +1 Attack and Speed Mega Gyarados is enough to clean up whatever Blaziken couldn't kill.
Dragonite, Salamence and Gyarados offer the most type synergy from what I can think of off the top of my head. There's also a lot of things I can think of that would take advantages of the boosts, but they share a weakness with Blaziken, most notably Metagross and Tyrantrum. And when in doubt, there's always Garchomp.
MEGA Chomp wont care about the speed drop when it has 3 boosts from Blaziken. Mega Absol, if megad before, can tage the pass on a predicted twave
Wouldn't aegislash be a good speed pass receiver?
eh, it's frail as all get out but it does hit hard
How many hits can Mega Aggron take? Just out of curiosity. Also, how long can Mega Aerodatyl outspeed speed boost blaziken? One, maybe 2 turns?
Judging by it's frailness perhaps either of these pokemon stand a chance to stop it?
Btw, even with stealth rocks, a baton passed +2 priority (gale wings) bravebird from TalonFlame will destroy Mega Blaziken. I haven't done the calcs, but it worked in a wifi battle, and I also don't know what ev's blaziken was running.
Judging by it's frailness perhaps either of these pokemon stand a chance to stop it?
Btw, even with stealth rocks, a baton passed +2 priority (gale wings) bravebird from TalonFlame will destroy Mega Blaziken. I haven't done the calcs, but it worked in a wifi battle, and I also don't know what ev's blaziken was running.
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A Mr Mime Psychic also destroys Blaziken, whats your point? A lot of pokemon can destroy blaziken with their stabs. Few are good enough to run in OU and fewer less can switch in directly. Talonflame is neither. Talonflame can switch in ONCE against blaziken. It is as much a counter as Dewgomg is to Garchomp.
The difference between Talonflame and Mr. Mime, Kingler, or anything else that has SE STAB against Blaziken and Talonflame is that none of these Pokemon can revenge even a +6 Blaziken, while Talonflame can easily. Gale wings priority means Talonflame can revenge kill just about anything that is very frail and/or weak to flying. In no way does it make this monster of a chicken any less broken, but at least it has one thing that always stops it.
And what was that about Talonflame not being good in OU?
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I've been having good luck with Passing to Cloyster when something Megaken can't handle appears if I've pulled off a Swords Dance. Saves me the trouble of having that semi-fragile little clam potentially get cracked open during a Shell Smash as well as potentially giving it even more Spd in the end. And if you pass into something Cloyster can tank and receive less than 50% damage that doesn't have a priority move, that's pretty much GG right there.
Anyone else you guys know of that might be an unstoppable powerhouse with a SD and a few turns of Speed Boost?
Yeah, Talonflame can clean up Megaken pretty easily. If you've taken any amount of damage, be it from having to use a Flare Blitz over a Hi Jump, Stealth Rocks, or just taking a few blows, Brave Bird will KO you faster than you can even realize if you don't switch out.
Talonflame is pretty damn deadly. Don't underestimate him. Fragility does not a bad Pokemon make. Look at Megengar. People are saying he's a stupidly dangerous force to be reckoned, but he dies to a single Sucker Punch. Hell, he almost always dies to a single anything.
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How is talonflame a blaziken counter when it loses half its health when it switches in, and then gets blasted by a STABed 130 or 120 BP move coming from 120+ base attack stat? Talonflame can come in and threaten Blaziken ONCE a game. Next time it comes in it dies. I fail to see how thats a counter. Though imo this point is moot since talonflame won't be sniffing uu.
I have yet to run into a counter for Blaziken. And thats straight out insane. Theres pokemon who resist its STABs and pokemon that can force a switch, but the price is way too high. You either run mediocre pokemon(talonflame) become set up fodder(azumarril) or just face a team with constant free +1 speed.
I have yet to run into a counter for Blaziken. And thats straight out insane. Theres pokemon who resist its STABs and pokemon that can force a switch, but the price is way too high. You either run mediocre pokemon(talonflame) become set up fodder(azumarril) or just face a team with constant free +1 speed.
Blaziken has to go, as much as I love him as a Pokemon. Right now in Pre-Pokebank OU I'm running Azumarill specifically to check Blaziken (was running Greninja before he was un-banned). The only Pokemon right now in Pre-Pokebank OU that can keep your team from being swept by Blaziken is Talonflame and Azumarill (and they are both just checks at best), and I think this is just ridiculous.
So basically right now I find that the only ways to beat Blaziken are:
1) Run Talonflame or Azumarill, and I guess Slowbro...
2) Extremely smart playing (i.e. switching a ghost into HJK, stalling out Life Orb, etc.), but any good battler will be able to overcome this.
3) Pray to whatever you believe in that HJK misses.
I've only played in Pre-Pokebank OU so I don't know if this is the case for Pokebank OU as well. I know in Pokebank OU you have access to Jellicent and Landorus-T who I can see cause problems for Blaziken, but then again, that's what team support is for.
Do we really have to wait until December to ban this thing? Oh, and Mega Gengar too... that has to go as well, but that's a discussion on its own..
So basically right now I find that the only ways to beat Blaziken are:
1) Run Talonflame or Azumarill, and I guess Slowbro...
2) Extremely smart playing (i.e. switching a ghost into HJK, stalling out Life Orb, etc.), but any good battler will be able to overcome this.
3) Pray to whatever you believe in that HJK misses.
I've only played in Pre-Pokebank OU so I don't know if this is the case for Pokebank OU as well. I know in Pokebank OU you have access to Jellicent and Landorus-T who I can see cause problems for Blaziken, but then again, that's what team support is for.
Do we really have to wait until December to ban this thing? Oh, and Mega Gengar too... that has to go as well, but that's a discussion on its own..
Hi all, (first post ever (:
Its been ages since I did competitive play so forgive my noobishness, but wont the prevalence of the new fairies, a resurgent ghost type and more priority users hurt him somewhat? This is based off reading here, and playing competitively in Black and White before the banning (and before the changes of BW2)
Assuming recoil mechanics for HJK and Flare Blitz have stayed the same, won't he still suffer significant damage on mis-prediction? For example, Blaze uses HJK. Opponent switches to Aegislash, meaning blaze takes recoil without doing damage. Aegislash finishes him off with Shadow Sneak (or maybe pursuit, dont know if it gets that). I know FB doesnt have the misscoil of HJK but it'll still mount up quickly.
On top of that, theres Aqua Jet from Azumarill and Talonflame to consider, though theyve been mentioned previously. My point is that by the time hes killed something he'll have taken a lot of damage from recoil so even a weak priority move might kill him.
Another interesting idea could be Protean Greninja. He uses Shadow Sneak, damaging ken a little. Ken uses HJK, doing 0 damage but recoiled enough to be KO'd. If the ken predicted correctly and used flare blitz he'd probably knock out the greninja, but still end up eating the recoil, LO recoil and the damage from either Shadow Sneak or potentially SE water shuriken if the gren player chooses.
Apart from Aegislash and other ghosts, Azumarill and Togekiss can also threaten. He wont be at full health past his second turn in all likelihood, at which point he can be smashed by the ever important priority. ES from Dragonite can threaten a revenge kill or give him a chance to set up DD. Gardevoir 4x resists HJK too, and can trace speed boost.
Entry hazards are looking to stay popular too, lets not forget, so not only will switching out of his counters amass residual damage but it will also hand the momentum to the opponents team.
Like I said Ive been gone from the comp scene for ages so my opinion probably isnt well formed, but it seems to me he'll end up OU, high OU certainly. Mega to Ubers.
Dont mean to sound negative since he's my favourite and think hes incredible in battle, but I dont think he's too much for OU from what ive played recently. One of the best in OU certainly but Im not personally convinced he's broken.
Its been ages since I did competitive play so forgive my noobishness, but wont the prevalence of the new fairies, a resurgent ghost type and more priority users hurt him somewhat? This is based off reading here, and playing competitively in Black and White before the banning (and before the changes of BW2)
Assuming recoil mechanics for HJK and Flare Blitz have stayed the same, won't he still suffer significant damage on mis-prediction? For example, Blaze uses HJK. Opponent switches to Aegislash, meaning blaze takes recoil without doing damage. Aegislash finishes him off with Shadow Sneak (or maybe pursuit, dont know if it gets that). I know FB doesnt have the misscoil of HJK but it'll still mount up quickly.
On top of that, theres Aqua Jet from Azumarill and Talonflame to consider, though theyve been mentioned previously. My point is that by the time hes killed something he'll have taken a lot of damage from recoil so even a weak priority move might kill him.
Another interesting idea could be Protean Greninja. He uses Shadow Sneak, damaging ken a little. Ken uses HJK, doing 0 damage but recoiled enough to be KO'd. If the ken predicted correctly and used flare blitz he'd probably knock out the greninja, but still end up eating the recoil, LO recoil and the damage from either Shadow Sneak or potentially SE water shuriken if the gren player chooses.
Apart from Aegislash and other ghosts, Azumarill and Togekiss can also threaten. He wont be at full health past his second turn in all likelihood, at which point he can be smashed by the ever important priority. ES from Dragonite can threaten a revenge kill or give him a chance to set up DD. Gardevoir 4x resists HJK too, and can trace speed boost.
Entry hazards are looking to stay popular too, lets not forget, so not only will switching out of his counters amass residual damage but it will also hand the momentum to the opponents team.
Like I said Ive been gone from the comp scene for ages so my opinion probably isnt well formed, but it seems to me he'll end up OU, high OU certainly. Mega to Ubers.
Dont mean to sound negative since he's my favourite and think hes incredible in battle, but I dont think he's too much for OU from what ive played recently. One of the best in OU certainly but Im not personally convinced he's broken.
Defensive slow bro says fuck you blaze. Avoiding a 2hko from a +2 LO thunder punch and ohko'ing with surf
+2 LO blaze calcs
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken ThunderPunch vs. 248 HP / 52+ Def Slowbro: 322-380 (81.93 - 96.69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Slowbro calcs on mega blaze with it's increased def
208 SpA Slowbro Surf vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 302-356 (100 - 117.88%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Slowbro works just fine. Considering how thunder punch/shadow claw are both incredibly rare moves and it can still tank them just fine and regen the damage off while being able to ohko. Needless to say it doesn't give a fuck about flare blitz/HJK. Bp variants are a pain and admittedly Slowbro can't stop whatever comes in but eh.
I think of Scolipede like this as well. Do as much damage as you can while the Speed Boosts rack up, then pass it down to another Pokemon and resume sweep-punishing people.
It takes some interesting move-fu to wreck something like that, like Topsy-Turvy.
And stuff like this is why I approve of having Baton Pass to swap over to something that can take the passed speed swap into the attempted counter and stuff them.
Assuming there are no hazards, this is true. But isn't this for jolly blaziken? what about adamant?
and why not run a special special attack to take out a counter? blaziken has a usable special attack.
How people still think talonflame is a mediocre pokemon when it has been sweeping teams left and right lol.
Every team right now has to have a rock type/some sort of answer to talonflame or else he sweeps you straight to the trash can.
Moreover, able to come in a +6 speed blaziken, take a hit and threaten him to switch then prepare for a sweep of your own is amazing, tell me how many squishy pokemon like talonflame can accomplish that task.
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Probably has something to do with the fact that all his stats except speed are pretty mediocre and some people don't understand what all priority Flying moves actually does for him or they underestimate how much damage Flare Blitz and Brave Bird actually does. It might also be that they carried a decent check to begin with (Tyranitar is pretty popular) so they never had a problem with it. Personally, I knew what was coming because of Ho-Oh.
I've been passing boosts to Mega Garchomp on WiFi, obviously a gimmick which works because of less experienced players on cartridge,and there's better mons to pass to, but it's still pretty hilarious having a Mega Garchomp with a few speed boosts on him, especially if there's a sword dance in there too.
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