Blazing Stars: My revised Sun Team

[BlazingBarrager]

Blazing Stars​

Version History​

v5

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v1​

v2

v3

v4

Indepth Look

@ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 200 HP / 112 Spd / 196 SDef
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Overheat
Roar
Will-O-Wisp
Sunny Day

No sun team is complete without Ninetales...unless you're doing Ubers by which case you'd need Groudon. Anyway, this is your standard defensive set that's designed to have Ninetales win the weather war saved for the inclusion of Overheat over Flamethrower. I figured that because Ninetales switches out often the drop in Special Attack won't be that much of a problem and the extra power could be used to KO (or at least dent) opposing Pokemon Flamethrower can not.

@ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Naive Nature
Outrage
Dragon Claw
Fire Blast
Earthquake

Darmanitan just wasn't working out for me so I decided to switch back to Salamence as I had greater success with him, and for good reason. With his speed, power, and ability Salamence can plow through teams like they were paper. This Salamence runs your standard Choice Scraf set to ensure that it will outrun and KO opposing Pokemon making him both my late-game sweeper and revenge killer.

@ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 20 HP / 236 Spd / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
Ice Shard
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock
Earthquake

My trap layer/rapid spinner of the team. I opted for Donphan over Forretress because Donphan is actually capable of KOing opposing threats and keeping the team's offensive momentum going something that Forretress can't do. While this is your general Donphan set in terms of moves, the EV spread is a bit different as it gives Donphan maximum power to cause damage to opposing Pokemon.

@ Lum Berry
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature
Fiery Dance
Quiver Dance
Bug Buzz
Hidden Power [Ground]

I felt like my team could use a second Special Attacker, and Volcarona came to mind. After all, the thing is so overpowered its stupid. Fiery Dance was chosen over Fire Blast due to its better accuracy as well as its chance to increase Volcarona's Special Attack to even higher levels while Hidden Power Ground was picked to deal with threats like Tentacruel even when the Sun is gone. Aside from those two moves this is your standard offensive set.

@ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 60 HP / 252 SAtk / 196 Spd
Modest Nature
Leaf Storm
Healing Wish
Thunder Wave
Hidden Power [Fire]

Now I know what you're thinking. Why have Celebi on a Sun team? Well I opted for Celebi due to its bulk, typing, and especially its moveset as well as the fact it doesn't rely on the sun to operate. Yes the extra Fire weakness is a problem, but aside from that it works as a great counter to water types. I opted for an offensive supporter set because I already have enough attackers as it is, but at the same time I didn't want to slow the team down. Leaf Storm is used for maximum damage that, thanks to the nature and EV spread, will KO a lot of threats that don't resist it and severely dent those that do whose name isn't Heatran. Hidden Power Fire works great under the Sun and gives Celebi a way to deal with opposing Grass types. Thunder Wave provides paralysis support for the team as no Ground type would be stupid enough to switch into Celebi knowing it has Leaf Storm under its arsenal. Finally, Healing Wish wraps up the set as a last resort to help one of my sweepers get a second chance at sweeping.

@ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 180 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature
Giga Drain
Growth
Sludge Bomb
Hidden Power [Fire]

Venusaur is so stupidly good under the Sun I just had to have him on my team. I opted for a full offense set, and it works so well. Not much more to say really. After all, Venusaur speaks for itself when under the Sun.​

Changes​

Changed the moveset and EV spread on Ninetales.

Swapped Darmanitan for Salamence.

Swapped Jirachi for Donphan.

Swapped Cresselia for Volcarona.

Swapped Heatran for Celebi.​

Import​

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Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 200 HP / 196 SDef / 112 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Roar
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sunny Day

Volcarona (F) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fiery Dance
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Growth
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 60 HP / 252 SAtk / 196 Spd
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Healing Wish
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]

 

[Electrolyte]

Hey there, cool team!

NastyPass Celebi is certainly a cool pokemon, but I fear it's bringing this team more harm than good. Your recipients, Latias and Venasaur, don't exactly need Celebi; Latias is more of a hit and run pokemon and will burn off the +2 boost in a turn anyway, and Venasaur can easily run its own Growth which is much more reliable. Celebi does interfere with a lot of the synergy of this team- bringing you another Grass type along with another Psychic type- further weakening you to Ice types such as Mamoswine, Flying types such as Tornadus-I, Bug types such as CB Scizor, and Pursuit trappers such as Weavile or Tyranitar. All of that is at the cost of passing a +2 boost to two pokemon that don't even really need it all that much. Instead, I think you should use Celebi's slot to cover some of the holes in the team- mainly, Rock and Ice types that can easily stop a sweep from Venasaur or Salamence. Having a pokemon that can spin away hazards that this team finds annoying and tank some powerful physical attacks would be cool too- as both severely hinder this team's offensive potential. Therefore, instead of Celebi, I think you should try Defensive Forretress.

Forretress @ Leftovers
Relaxed / 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
Spikes / Gyro Ball / Volt Switch / Rapid Spin

Although it may seem counter intuitive to put such a slow, defensive pokemon onto an offensive team like yours, Forretress actually does a nice job a maintaining momentum, all the whole providing the team numerous resistances and support options that every Sun team loves. Its Steel typing is absolutely vital to the team as it allows you to use Forretress to wall Dragon type attacks- since, currently, any DDancer that can get to +2 can easily sweep this team after setting up on Celebi, Dugtrio, Ninetales, or a Choice locked Salamence. Forretress does cover up your weakness to Dragon types quite nicely by providing you with a nice defensive answer to counter them. Forretress also walls numerous other physical attackers that could prove quite dangerous to this team; especially Ice or Rock-types such as Choice Scarf Terrakion or Mamoswine. Its Spin support is great too, whisking away pesky Stealth Rocks that annoy Ninetales and Salamence. Spikes only adds to the long list of ways Forretress can support your team by adding residual damage to your opponent's side of the field, making it much easier for you to KO them later. Forretress's moveset should be standard- max def and HP to take hits, and Relaxed and Gyro Ball to hit faster / speed boosting pokemon. Volt Switch lets Forretress avoid being completely momentum-less, allowing it to pivot from teammate to teammate quite flawlessly.

One thing Forretress can't handle as well, however, is Lati@s, who hit its weaker Special side. They don't pose nearly as much of a threat as physical attackers do because you can sack a pokemon and revenge kill later, but it is still better to at least have a solid check to them so that it's tougher for smart players to deal too much damage. For this reason, I suggest you try a bulkier spread on Ninetales, with some moveset adjustments as well. A spread of 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Spe Calm would probably suit Ninetales best because it gives it a lot of useful special bulk that helps it tank various different attacks, such as Choice Scarf / Specs Latios's Draco Meteor, Rotom-W's Hydro Pump (in the Sun ofc) and Heatran's Earth Power. If you try Roar instead of SolarBeam, you can even phaze out your opponents, not only erasing their stat boosts but also forcing them through another bout of hazards. It's also a nice way to potentially screw up your opponent's momentum. SolarBeam is quite useless since your team has no trouble handling bulky water types, which are just set up bait for Venusaur.

The lack of a pass booster does open up some offensive holes in the team- but these holes can also be covered up quite easily. As I stated before, Venasaur gets a great boosting move in Growth which I'd advise you try over Earthquake. Growth lets Venasaur boost its special attack just as much as Nasty Plot does- without the hassle of passing. I'm sure you don't need me to repeat how destructive Venasaur is at +2 SpA- and Growth easily gets it there. EQ is really weak anyways, and is redundant with Mence's and Dugtrio's coverage moves. Heatran and other Fire types really pose no threat to this team.

Cool team. Good luck!

 

[BlazingBarrager]

Alright I'll make those changes. Thanks for the help. ^^ Hopefully I can find another team to use Celebi on. I really love that Pokemon.

 

[ganj4lF]

Okay, first of all I agree with Electrolyte's suggestions, Forretress is going to be much more useful than Celebi in your team. However, even after that, you're still horribly weak to Mamoswine, in my opinion. Forretress can't check it forever, since it has no means of recovery, and once it takes an Earthquake, it cannot switch into it again (everything else on your team is just horrified at the perspective of switching into Mamoswine...). I'm really wondering if Latias is the ideal pokemon for you in this team; yeah, it provides an ideal way to take Water attacks and retaliate, sure, but it does compound on your Ice weakness which is not really you can afford at the moment. For that reason, I'd like to suggest an additional change in your team, which is to replace Latias with...

Cresselia @ Leftovers | Levitate
Calm | 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Toxic
- HP Fire

I played a lot with this set in the past months (thanks Tobes for making me discover this, I guess). It's just a great answer to things like Keldeo, Landorus-I (yeah, ANY set: who cares about U-Turn when it's not even a guaranteed 3HKO?), Politoed and, in your case, Mamoswine. Life Orbed Icicle Crash cannot 2HKO after hazards, which is more than enough to switch in, Moonlight in Mamoswine's face, then stall out its LO or just status it. While you lose an attacker, you gain a sturdy pokemon which actually can deal with a huge variety of things and lessens considerably your weakness. It's true that it's not as good as Latias if you lose the weather war, however it actually helps you not to do so by being able to handle Politoed, Ninetales, and Abomasnow (TTar is slaughtered by Dugtrio anyway), and since Sun is so dependant on keeping up its weather anyway, I'd take Cresselia over Latias any day.

Also, a very minor modification which should help somewhat is to use an EV spread of 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe with a Timid nature on Venusaur. WHile Timid is needed to outspeed scarfed base 110s, you just need 180 EVs in Speed to ensure that, and you can pump the rest into HP, improving Venusaur's survivability and, for example, guaranteeing the survival even after an Adamant Mamoswine's Ice Shard after SR damage.

Hope this suggestion can help you somewhat. Good luck.

 

[BlazingBarrager]

Thanks. This will help a lot for sure.

Um...would it be better to change anything with Salamence (like make it MixMence) or is it fine as it is?

 

[ganj4lF]

I think having a Choice Scarf user is never a bad idea to not count uniquely on Venusaur for the sweeping duties. Salamence also appreciates Sunlight a lot, since it's able to kill Skarmory hitting only once with Fire Blast, and things like Ferrothorn cannot rely on Rain to mitigate the hit if Ninetales is around. So if Salamence is working for you I don'tm really see a reason to change it at the moment.

 

[BlazingBarrager]

Alright. Thanks.

 

[vyomov]

Options for Cresselia

What I see as a potential issue to the team is Alakazam. Alakazam outspeeds the whole team(save Dugtrio) and can OHKO the whole team after a CM boost with Psychic/Shadow Ball while apart from Dugtrio's Sucker Punch has no way to beat Alakazam(note Salamence might outspeed with Choice Scarf, I'll have to see).
Another issue to the team in general is the lack of a fighting type on the team which allows pokemon like Hydreigon to come in on the team without a worry(apart from Sala who will get OHKOed by Draco Meteor if it switches in).
To take care of the issue, I would suggest changing Cresselia to Breloom
The whole Idea with Cresselia was to beat Mamoswine: a CB boosted Mach Punch can OHKO Mamo with priority. Breloom lasts long because of Poison Heal(also cannot be statused to death as you have no cleric to remove status). Breloom also does well vs water-types. More importantly though, Breloom can defeat pokemon like Hydreigon which can endanger the team
Another option could be to have a Rotom-W. With Levitate, Rotom can take anything Mamo has with ease(excluding the rare Gravity team) and can hit back with STAB Water which although not very effective under Sun can still KO in couple of turns. More importantly, it provides a good-switch in to a lot of the threats on the rain team: Politoed and others included especially with Thunder(100% accurate switch on Poli).
Rotom-W also has ice coverage to deal with dragons (HP Ice) and has good bulk. Most importantly, if Ninetales is gone and rain team switches in Poli, this gives you a chance to fight back with 100% accurate Thunder. You could also use it as a lead vs rain to hit Poli quickly before setting up Sun.

Note the above are MY opinions and I am very likely to have missed out a certain pokemon into my calculations.

 

[BlazingBarrager]

Bumping this thread because I need more ratings. Something about my team just doesn't feel right.

I tested Rotom-W with a Choice Specs set and he did fairly well, but...I don't know. I might replace it with Cresselia, or I might not. Not sure.

 

[BlazingBarrager]

Bumping again because I made some changes and wanted to get an input from you guys.

Changes:

Swapped Dugtrio for Leafeon
Reason: Dugtrio is great and all, but I noticed my team lacked a good way to heal status and HP. Then I remembered Leafeon. She not only comes with Wish, but she's also able to learn Heal Bell. Best part is that she is able to abuse the sun thanks to her DW ability.

Leafeon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Roar

Swapped Cresselia for Rotom-W.
Reason: Cresselia was a great wall, but she lacked power and I needed something that could handle rain teams and, to an extent, sandstorm teams. Thus I swapped out for Cresselia.

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 232 HP / 56 SAtk / 220 Spd
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump

Swapped Venusaur for Celebi
Reason: First, I love Celebi. Secondly, Venusaur is a pain to get with its DW ability ingame. Thirdly, while Venusaur has more speed and can have more power if it gets a growth in, Celebi has more power to begin with (especially when you have Leaf Storm for a move) and isn't reliant on the weather like Venusaur is. Also, no one will expect an Offensive Celebi when they come to face it.

Celebi @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 56 HP / 200 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earth Power

Swapped Spikes for Stealth Rock on Forretress.
Reason: With Dugtrio gone I needed a way to get Stealth Rock on the field.

Now if someone could rate these changes I'd be more than happy, and hopefully I can find a spot to keep Celebi in. Like Salamence, I really want to use it on my team.

 

[Tendrake]

On Rotom-W, I'd suggest running Pain Split instead of HP Ice, as it stops you getting walled from as much.

Also, you might like this set which I've been running for a long time which is disgustingly effective in sun teams.

Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Flare Blitz
- U-Turn
- Rock Slide/Stone Edge (take your pick)
- Superpower

This guy is a disgustingly strong revenge killer and a potential replacement for Salamence. A Sun-boosted STAB Sheer Force Flare Blitz is essentially equivalent to a death sentence to any pokemon that doesn't resist it, and even a bunch that do. The other moves are good other coverage, and U-Turn keeps up the pressure. While it lacks bulk, it's a brutal mon, at least give it a go.

 

[BlazingBarrager]

Alright. I'll give Darmanitan a try.

Edit: Rotom-W wasn't working so well so I'm trying Rotom-H.

 

[thood]

Hey guys first post as a Smogon user.... Anyways.. On to the rating.
Ninetales: I realize what you first said about not wanting your ninetales to be set up bait but hear me out. I have a Ninetales of my own and it is capable of crippling and even decimating unprepared teams. The Set:
Ninetales@leftovers
Drought
Timid
124 HP/132 SpDef/252 Spd
Overheat
Power Swap
Will-o-Wisp
Protect/Solarbeam/Hp Ice
The trick to this set is to start with Ninetales as your Lead, setting up the sun. Unleash an Overheat on the opponent unless it is extremely unfavorably(switch). Use power Swap next turn, giving your -2 SpAtt to your opponent, effectively crippling any Special attacker or forcing them to switch. If the opponent is a Physical attacker use Will-o-wisp first. Last move is up to you; Longevity, counter to unsuspecting water types, or good coverage. Hope this set serves you if you decide to use it!

 

[BlazingBarrager]

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to try it out.

Anyway, update on my team. Thoughts and comments?

 

[Tendrake]

At the moment it seems that Heatran is kind of a pain for your team to deal with. A very minor change to fix this would be to replace Sludge Bomb on Venusaur with Earthquake, which will OHKO Heatran when Venusaur is +2. This does lead to a small drop in Venusaur's coverage but it helps to deal with threats that would otherwise wall it out, as well as a surprise factor that very few seem to expect.

Also, on Cresselia, your EV spread gives you 269 Speed. If you take a look here, you'll see that there are no major threats in that range, the closest being 262 for +Max Politoed and Breloom. Because of this, you can move 24 EVs from Speed to either SpA or SpD.

 

[BlazingBarrager]

Well once again I made some changes to my team, but I wanted some input on these changes. They're listed as followed:

Went back to a defensive set for Ninetales.

Swapped Darmantian back for Salamence.
Reason: Darmantian has great power, but he doesn't last long and his defenses are crap making him very fragile. Salamence has better overall defenses and a better typing (in my opinion anyway) and I've had more success with him than Darmantian.

Swapped Jirachi for Volcarona.
Reason: Venusaur is great under the Sun, but there's only so much he can do so I opted for another attacker to abuse the sun with, and Volcarona came to mind. While I haven't used her much I think it's safe to say I made the right choice. Here's the spread if you're curious.

Volcarona (F) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Flame Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 216 Spd / 40 HP / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Fiery Dance
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Volcarona also handles Mamoswine fairly well...I think.

Swapped Cresselia for Donphan
Reason: Cresselia is great as a tank and all, but she lacks power. I also needed a Rapid Spinner and a new Stealth Rock user, and Donphan came to mind. His defenses are great and he's able to fight back unlike Forretress.

Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 20 HP / 236 Spd / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

Swapped Heatran for Celebi
Reason: I needed a check to Rain teams as Venusaur could only do so much. As such, I went with Celebi. This time though I took a different approach with the pixie.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 220 SDef / 252 HP / 36 Spd
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- U-turn
- Thunder Wave
- Healing Wish

This spread was mostly inspired by the Lilligent set of a similar making, except Celebi provides Paralysis support instead of Sleep. Even though Celebi has no SpA EVs invested Leaf Storm still heavily dents (if not KOs) water types. U-Turn is there for escaping obviously, but I opted for it instead of Baton Pass because of Leaf Storm. I mean Giga Drain is great and all, but Celebi isn't going to be doing enough to support the team if it stuck with that move alone. Finally, Celebi fits the role of a healer with Healing Wish allowing either Venusaur, Volcarona, or Salamence to get a second chance at sweeping at the cost of Celebi's life.

 

[BlazingBarrager]

Bumping my thread to allow you to see the changes I made to the team as well as get a rating on the changes.