Pokémon Breloom

[nightsitter]

Breloom @ choice scarf
Ability: Technician
Adamant/Jolly, 252 atk 252 speed, 4hp
-Power up punch
-Fling
-bullet seed/Mach punch
-Rock tomb/Mach punch

With aegislash gone this breloom increases in viability. The idea of this set is to outspeed what you need to with scarf and revenge them, then fling it when the need to be sanic fast is gone OR sweep with scarf power up punch.

This set makes a great lead and also as a revenge killer. PuP has around the same BP of force palm, trading the small paralysis chance for attack boosts, thereby making it stronger than force palm on the second attack. Since it is strategically the same to scarf moxie salamence, It's important to take care of hard counters(i.e. ghosts) before you click x to win. Before your sweep, if you anticipate a ghost switch in, fling your scarf at em and if they aren't outright OHKO'd, finish with rock tomb/ bullet seed. Then alternate between PuP bullet seed/mach punch to sweep what's left. Bullet seed for consistent STAB, maiming water types; chiefly rotom-w and quagsire. Rock tomb is for hitting opposing fire types like the Charizards, and Breloom's biggest counter, talonflame. Tbird resists both of Breloom's STABs as well as both of its own being SE against him. Thus rock tomb is very important to catch him on the switch-in as Breloom has no chance of winning 1v1. Mach punch can be substituted for either one, being very useful once the scarf is flung. However, you do lose out on the important aforesaid coverage. If you insist on adding it to the set, I reccomend getting rid of bullet seed, as rock tomb proves more useful by lowering speed and catching talonflame. It's basically up to what your team can, and cannot deal with. No rotom-w counters? Bullet seed. Getting rekt by charizard y, and getting outsped by everybody and their mamma's rhyorn? Rock tomb's your man.
This set greatly appreciates sticky web and stealth rock support, especially if forgoing rock tomb or going adamant. Even with a scarf, base 70 speed is abyssmal. This makes either galvantula or smeargle valued partners. Sticky web is more important, so if you don't want smeargle as dead weight, slap memento on him or just go with galvantula. Heatran is an excellent partner to Breloom; being resistant to all his weaknesses and elimanating grass type counters lacking earthquake. In addition, he mutilates fairy types being x4 resistant to their bullshit and takes care of breloom's biggest counter, Talonflame. A breloom/heatran/gengar core would be an excellent addition to a HO team, taking care of each other's checks and counters. Switching Gengar with Rotom-W would change it to a bulky offensive core. In addition, Rotom-w would give you two talonflame hard counters, and since they are EVERYWHERE these days that is by no means overkill.

Half of the reason to use Breloom lies in the sweet, sweet, never-missing Spore. Not running it, even on a Scarf set, is practically a waste of a teamslot. Furthermore, PuP only outdamages Force Palm after three hits, something no decent player would allow Breloom to have. The Parahax is also a nice addition. If you really want to set up with Breloom, you might as well just use Swords Dance

While it's unfortunate that Breloom doesn't have access to a particularly great Dark-type move, that is no reason to sacrifice a moveslot for a one-use move with a base power of 10 and no side effect. Fling is one of those moves that maybe has gimmicky use on one or two Pokemon (like Acrobatics PH Gliscor), but should never be used outside of that. IMO, the best ScarfLoom set is Spore/Mach Punch/Rock Tomb/Bullet Seed. At least that's the one that gives my semistall team the most issues.

EDIT: Greninja'd by quite a few minutes; evidently I got severely distracted mid-post

 

[Karxrida]

If you're going to use Scarf Breloom, always run Jolly so you can beat standard Mega Gyarados and Mega T-Tar* at +1 and Force Palm since it hits harder than Mach Punch and make up for not having Adamant.

*I believe Mega T-Tar survives a Adamant Mach Punch (can't calc atm because phone but it at least survives Conkeldurr's) and Ice Punch + Sand damage kills SashLoom even if you Spore it since it'll be going first. Force Palm is probably strong enough to OHKO even if you're Jolly, but I might be wrong so I'll post a calc later.

EDIT:
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 304-360 (89.1 - 105.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Yeah, it can survive an Adamant Mach Punch. How about Jolly Force Palm?
252 Atk Technician Breloom Force Palm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 412-492 (120.8 - 144.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yeah, run Force Palm.

 

[DeeJ]

So...guys..thoughts on this?

Breloom @Lansat Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252Atk/ 252Speed/ 4HP
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Natural Gift
- Sword Dance

Now, this set is meant to lure in and beat Breloom's checks and counters specifically. Natural Gift is ran over spore, but its not much of a problem really. I figured coverage was more important. But check this though:

+2 252 Atk Lansat Berry Breloom Natural Gift (100 BP Flying) vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 364-430 (101.3 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Lansat Berry Breloom Natural Gift (100 BP Flying) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Celebi: 318-376 (78.7 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Lansat Berry Breloom Natural Gift (100 BP Flying) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 272-324 (71.5 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Counters? Where dey at doe?

 

[Of Moose & Men]

So...guys..thoughts on this?

Breloom @Lansat Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252Atk/ 252Speed/ 4HP
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Natural Gift
- Sword Dance

Now, this set is meant to lure in and beat Breloom's checks and counters specifically. Natural Gift is ran over spore, but its not much of a problem really. I figured coverage was more important. But check this though:

+2 252 Atk Lansat Berry Breloom Natural Gift (100 BP Flying) vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 364-430 (101.3 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Lansat Berry Breloom Natural Gift (100 BP Flying) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Celebi: 318-376 (78.7 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Lansat Berry Breloom Natural Gift (100 BP Flying) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 272-324 (71.5 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Counters? Where dey at doe?

They're busy still being Talonflame.

 

[procrastinat]

If you're going to use Scarf Breloom, always run Jolly so you can beat standard Mega Gyarados and Mega T-Tar* at +1 and Force Palm since it hits harder than Mach Punch and make up for not having Adamant.

*I believe Mega T-Tar survives a Adamant Mach Punch (can't calc atm because phone but it at least survives Conkeldurr's) and Ice Punch + Sand damage kills SashLoom even if you Spore it since it'll be going first. Force Palm is probably strong enough to OHKO even if you're Jolly, but I might be wrong so I'll post a calc later.

EDIT:
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 304-360 (89.1 - 105.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Yeah, it can survive an Adamant Mach Punch. How about Jolly Force Palm?
252 Atk Technician Breloom Force Palm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 412-492 (120.8 - 144.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yeah, run Force Palm.

Doesn't a jolly Mega-Tar at +1 speed outspeed a jolly scarf breloom?

 

[Jaroda]

Yes it does.

 

[Karxrida]

Doesn't a jolly Mega-Tar at +1 speed outspeed a jolly scarf breloom?

Breloom's Speed: 70
Mega Tyranitar's Speed: 71

It does.

Well fuck.

 

[StairFall]

Breloom's Speed: 70
Mega Tyranitar's Speed: 71

It does.

Well fuck.

Do people really run jolly Megatar? Almost all I've seen run adamant since they don't run max speed and aim for two boosts.Maybe I personally have just got a lot of unconventional opponents on the ladder.

 

[procrastinat]

Do people really run jolly Megatar? Almost all I've seen run adamant since they don't run max speed and aim for two boosts.Maybe I personally have just got a lot of unconventional opponents on the ladder.

Jolly is necessary to outspeed key threats (namely greninja) at +1, and all relevant scarfers at +2. I don't know if a more bulky DD set is getting usage but Jolly is specifically mentioned on the analysis as being absolutely necessary on offensive DD.

Also, this is a breloom thread, let's stay on topic.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

While Breloom doesn't really get much from ORAS, I feel that the LO set is going to be a lot more valuable in the ORAS environment, given the sheer number of new threats it can deal with. It's not only the only physical attacker capable of OHKOing Mega Slowbro unboosted, it's also one of the few Pokemon capable of checking the new improved Diggersby and Mega Lopunny, and one of the few wallbreakers that can break through Mega Sableye.

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Diggersby: 351-413 (112.5 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny: 328-385 (121 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (Mega) Slowbro: 344-404 (87.3 - 102.5%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (Mega) Sableye: 165-192 (54.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Add the Sash set's proficiency at checking Mega Swampert, and I feel that Breloom's usage is about to rise.

 

[Morningstar]

Okay not going to the site for a while I hadn't noticed there was already a thread on breloom...

Anyway once I get trough Omega Ruby, I'm considering doing a Poison Heal Breloom that focuses on healing via Leech Seed and Giga Drain/Drain Punch, I want to know what checks I should run for this (if using this as a core) and what moves to run (BESIDES Spore and maybe Baton Pass) as well as how viable it would be in the meta (Apparently Gliscor can do a better job of being a wall with Poison Heal than Breloom, then there's the fact that the meta practically revolves around Switching regardless of what generation)

Also can a mad please delete my thread?

 

[Karxrida]

Okay not going to the site for a while I hadn't noticed there was already a thread on breloom...

Anyway once I get trough Omega Ruby, I'm considering doing a Poison Heal Breloom that focuses on healing via Leech Seed and Giga Drain/Drain Punch, I want to know what checks I should run for this (if using this as a core) and what moves to run (BESIDES Spore and maybe Baton Pass) as well as how viable it would be in the meta (Apparently Gliscor can do a better job of being a wall with Poison Heal than Breloom, then there's the fact that the meta practically revolves around Switching regardless of what generation)

Also can a mad please delete my thread?

Pretty sure Breloom doesn't get Baton Pass, unless it's from XD?

Regardless, Poison Heal isn't really good right now. There are too many things that force it out after Sleep Clause has been activated and it has trouble keeping itself alive due to bad bulk. Many of the new OU Viable Megas screw it over hard (like Metagross, Sableye, Altaria, Latias) and you have to deal with Mega Gardevoir getting better in this meta and just flat-out murdering you.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

Pretty sure Breloom doesn't get Baton Pass, unless it's from XD?

Regardless, Poison Heal isn't really good right now. There are too many things that force it out after Sleep Clause has been activated and it has trouble keeping itself alive due to bad bulk. Many of the new OU Viable Megas screw it over hard (like Metagross, Sableye, Altaria, Latias) and you have to deal with Mega Gardevoir getting better in this meta and just flat-out murdering you.

Mega Sableye is the real problem. I've used PH Breloom semi consistently on the ORAS ladder, and neither Gross nor Latias really like switching into it between Leech Seed or sub stalling antics. If anything, its PO variant fares much better against them than its LO or Sash variants do, whilst still pulling its own against Megabro. Sable is a full stop to Toxicloom, though, and definitely diminishes its viability at the moment, especially when coupled with the set's reduced efficacy against M-Lopunny and M-Swampert. I wouldn't call it not very good, but it's a lot more nichey than it has been in the past.

 

[AM]

Poison Heal is fine on Breloom but not in the way where you would stall your opponent with Leech Seed. That set just lacks any real staying power and in this meta-game doesn't actually threaten a whole lot. Poison Heal attacker would be the set you would want to use on Breloom if ever utilizing its Poison Heal ability. It allows you to function as a status absorber and basically a counter to mons such as Rotom-W, Suicune, a handful of other status passers and with SD lets you break mons such as M-Sableye and M-Slowbro a bit better than you would risking a burn. Spore is not mandatory for Breloom btw. I know that was an old message up above I saw but I do see people making this assumption still when it's dependent more on team build than anything. A set of Facade, Seed Bomb, Drain Punch, SD is an example of one set that utilizes Poison Heal.

 

[PikachuCandyツ]

Scarf Breloom won't work unless you intend on 1 hit KOing every mon. The real power of breloom is his god awful spore, but other than that Focus sash is always your best option. Scarf isn't that bad of an idea, but what happens when you run into a talonflame, if those still exist nowadays. Who doesn't love their sashed breloom killing a talonflame with rock tomb after a bravebird focus sash live.

 

[AM]

Scarf Loom is more or less a gimmick back when Keldeo and Thundurus ran rampant in the metagame and as such players would just assume they're safe and Breloom would KO them. In this metagame I really don't believe Sash is your best option more than something like Life Orb would be. Sash simply doesn't have the power necessary power for Breloom to break stall and hazard stacking offense makes it easy to break the sash. Also Talonflame definitely exists but Rock Tomb + Sash was always an emergency button for Breloom when you should be having a more consistent answer to Talonflame anyways. Talonflame users will also know that Sash is a potential item on it so they're not going to run the risk of getting KO'd if the sash is intact with Breloom at full health. It has its purposes but don't use it for handling Talonflame, Thundurus, and whatever else you're hoping for lol that's just not good at all.

 

[Morningstar]

Scarf Loom is more or less a gimmick back when Keldeo and Thundurus ran rampant in the metagame and as such players would just assume they're safe and Breloom would KO them. In this metagame I really don't believe Sash is your best option more than something like Life Orb would be. Sash simply doesn't have the power necessary power for Breloom to break stall and hazard stacking offense makes it easy to break the sash. Also Talonflame definitely exists but Rock Tomb + Sash was always an emergency button for Breloom when you should be having a more consistent answer to Talonflame anyways. Talonflame users will also know that Sash is a potential item on it so they're not going to run the risk of getting KO'd if the sash is intact with Breloom at full health. It has its purposes but don't use it for handling Talonflame, Thundurus, and whatever else you're hoping for lol that's just not good at all.

I'm just wondering, was the build I wanted opinions on (Poison Heal Drain Breloom) also a gimmick?

 

[AM]

I'm just wondering, was the build I wanted opinions on (Poison Heal Drain Breloom) also a gimmick?

Your suggestion wasn't a gimmick. Poison Heal Leech Seed Breloom is a legitimate set that can be utilized well in XY and has been used successfully by many players. The problem in this meta is that you'll either face offensive builds that break this set easily, balanced builds that don't actually care for this set through its team-building, and in terms of stall M-Sableye is such a prominent asset on these builds you'll for the most part lose to your average stall build. It's not a gimmick it's just a bit less efficient. If you do use the set don't use Giga Drain. Breloom has terrible special attack and you would be better off using a set along the lines of Drain Punch, Leech Seed, Spore, Sub/Protect. Most people use bulk > speed but Breloom isn't exactly that bulky so that's more up to you in terms of how you want to use it.

 

[PikachuCandyツ]

I know Talonflame and Breloom aren't a good matchup and yes it is a emergency button for it. I just never saw a reason in scarf when people do so many switch in and outs. It's nice to have a chance to always spore. And spore is efficient when breloom is at it's last stand. Example: You can spore a scarf darmintan when it uses flare blitz, then proceed using rock tomb.

 

[Karxrida]

I know Talonflame and Breloom aren't a good matchup and yes it is a emergency button for it. I just never saw a reason in scarf when people do so many switch in and outs. It's nice to have a chance to always spore. And spore is efficient when breloom is at it's last stand. Example: You can spore a scarf darmintan when it uses flare blitz, then proceed using rock tomb.

Nobody actually ran Scarf as far as I could tell, the discussion we had here was mostly hypothetical. People stopped running Sash because it was overspecialized to beat offense, and even then it could end up as dead weight unless there was something you could revenge with Mach Punch. Also, lol at Darmanitan, it's shit and there are better ways to deal with it that don't involve wasting your one Spore.

 

[JSteele]

So, whats the preferred item for Techician Breloom now that people use Sash less and less?

Possibly something like Life Orb?

 

[Jaguar360]

Bumping.
What EV spread is best for SD Toxic Orb Breloom? Should it favor towards bulk or speed?
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Facade
This is my set for the team I'm building right now. I have 176 Spe to outspeed Rotom-W and Landoge atm.
Also, is Facade or Stone Edge better on Toxic Orb?

So, whats the preferred item for Techician Breloom now that people use Sash less and less?

Possibly something like Life Orb?

Very late response, but Life Orb is best for Techinician if you're not running Sash.

 

[AM]

Bumping.
What EV spread is best for SD Toxic Orb Breloom? Should it favor towards bulk or speed?
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Facade
This is my set for the team I'm building right now. I have 176 Spe to outspeed Rotom-W and Landoge atm.
Also, is Facade or Stone Edge better on Toxic Orb?

Speed I usually go max jolly. Facade is fine. All the targets of Stone Edge either beat you through speed, lose to a secondary coverage move, or get hit with Facade.

 

[MrAldo]

Indeed, stone edge isnt needed in that particular set since the fighting/grass/normal attack combo provide some pretty good neutral coverage. And a 140 bp facade is bound to hit most stuff that resist the grass/fight stab combo pretty hard. Consistency over bopping birds.

Also, that ev spread ties with 8 speed defensive lando-t at the moment so if you want to always outspeed it you just need to add 4 more evs to speed. I know defensive lando-t cant do much against breloom but still something to consider.

 

[AM]

Repeater1947