If you have been playing Shoddy and paying attention to the most recent stats you have seen the dominance that Bulky Offense has in the OU metagame. Increasingly, OU is becoming what could be described as a circlejerk of Dragons and Steels where everything depends on who can set up, who can revenge kill and who has the momentum in the battle. Pure, fragile sweepers are becoming less popular as players depend more and more on switching into resisted attacks and getting the momentum of the battle back. But like any style of play, Bulky Offense is not completely optimal and still has weaknesses. What are the most effective ways to combat Bulky Offensive teams in OU? Are there particular Pokemon, combinations of Pokemon, or team styles that Bulky Offense has trouble with? Share your ideas about how to deal with this dominant type of OU team.
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Bulky-Offense Breakers
- Thread starter Staraptor Call
- Start date
From my experience and looking at alot of bulky offense RMT's, alot of players lacked someone fast. When some people think bulky, they think slow but powerful. With that being said, Dragon Dance users like Salamence, Gyarados, Tyranitar can sometimes defeat a whole / rip apart bulky teams if their not packing the right Pokemon. I'm leaning towards Salamence most because people are underprepared for it when it comes to bulky offense. (imo)
One of the most common answers to bulky Pokemon (i.e. Metagross, Tyranitar) is Status. Status is used on most teams to combat these bulky threats by lowering their already below average speed (t-wave), crippling them with burn to lower their attacks (Will-o-wisp/Lava Plume), putting them to sleep to take the time and set up traps once everything is set up send in a Scarfed Pokemon and attempt to KO. As you can see most Bulky Pokemon can't be KOed 1 vs 1 but require the whole team as a whole (i.e. A pokemon who passes status, a revenge killer) to destroy the threats.
I find the best thing against bulky offense is stall or heavy offense; go on the extremes. Bulky offense does not provide nearly as much pressure as it needs to in order to prevent stall from getting down its hazards. If not, just beat the crap out of bulky offense with synergized heavy offense; without the durability that stall has, bulky offense is hard pressed to survive the constant onslaught of powerful attacks.
I was going to recommend this exact poke. Alot of bulky offensive teams have trouble with late game LOmie. The combination of Salamence + Gyarados is rendered useless unless they have already DD'd and will remain useless until Starmie is brought down. Scizor takes around 60% from Life Orb surf, so he has trouble switching in to Pursuit / Uturn, forcing him to Bullet Punch. Spin blocker Rotom also takes 60% or so from Surf and will likely switch in if the opponent has entry hazards up to stop Starmie from spinning, though you must pay attention to lefties recovery, because scarf Rotom will outspeed and OHKO with either STAB. Offensive Latias that switches into Surf and Stealth Rock can be outspeed and KO'd with Ice Beam (though I'm not sure it is a 100% kill, I've done it plenty of times).
Some things that can take hits from LOmie on standard bulky offensive teams are Vaporeon (2HKO by Tbolt, but if you can get it in on a Surf you can do some serious damage with HP Electric), Swampert, Metagross, full health Scizor.
Since bulky offense relies on switching around to play off resistances, SR is a must and a layer of regular spikes never hurts either. I find that bulky offense is most successful when Scizor can continually come in, forces switches and Uturn to a poke that puts the opponent in a disadvantage. So it definitely helps to limit his ability to repeatedly switch in.
I second using heavy stall against these types of teams. They generally lack a way to easily defeat it, and even if they do carry something like Taunt Heatran, SubMachamp, or Crocune, 1 team member is not going to suffice against stall unless your team can sufficiently support it.
Life Orb Starmie looks surprisingly useful if Blissey is taken out. It also pairs fairly well with Gengar, who can cripple or defeat Blissey and take the U-turns that revenging Scizors will inevitably throw at Starmie.
Heavy Stall is definitely the way to go. Crocune is a worthless stallbreaker with all the Celebi's running around. All it does is inconvenience the stall player. Crotomb is better, but no one uses him anymore.
Heavy Stall is definitely the way to go. Crocune is a worthless stallbreaker with all the Celebi's running around. All it does is inconvenience the stall player. Crotomb is better, but no one uses him anymore.
What does Bulky Offense mean? Balanced?
Actually Fast Frail stuff are less often seen due to BP fro Tech Scizor. Of course by all means it depends on the set of the Pokemon. I mean Starmie can support, and can also sweep.
The reason why I feel Stalling or Intense Offense is better is because they are specialised, unlike balanced teams, like a preparation-for-all, while not so strong at the offense and defense sides.
Actually Fast Frail stuff are less often seen due to BP fro Tech Scizor. Of course by all means it depends on the set of the Pokemon. I mean Starmie can support, and can also sweep.
The reason why I feel Stalling or Intense Offense is better is because they are specialised, unlike balanced teams, like a preparation-for-all, while not so strong at the offense and defense sides.
I've actually started using some of the old impact players, from before Plat was brought in, to some extent of success. People generally overlook MixApe with the inclusion of Latias, but when paired with a solid Pursuiter / Uturner like Scizor, Mixape can really come into its own, dealing with pretty much everything, like non-scarfed Heatran, pre-set up Mence, Gliscor, Swampert, Tyranitar, Celebi, Scizor itself, Snorlax, Blissey, and so much more, it's really shining for me again, as the late game destroyer it used to be.
Since Fast offense is being overlooked so much now, because of BP, it really manages to get the surprise factor in perfectly, and people often can't deal with it, outside of throwing in Scizor and mashing Bullet Punch.
Since Fast offense is being overlooked so much now, because of BP, it really manages to get the surprise factor in perfectly, and people often can't deal with it, outside of throwing in Scizor and mashing Bullet Punch.
I have been using Nasty Plot Azelf, something long forgotten in today's current metagame. It catches these new players off guard. They randomly send in their "Bulky" Gyarados, thinking they can survive the hit and kill back, then they get nailed by a Thunderbolt.
Scizor screwed DP up so much thanks to Bullet Punch. Pokemon like Gengar and Azelf need to adapt to the metagame. A simple solution to Gengar's problem is adding Protect to it's moveset. If Scizor comes in, you Protect, scouting for the Bullet Punch or Pursuit.
Overall, "Bulky" Offense is just dominating today's metagame to the point where frail sweepers like LO Gengar and NP Azelf can't dominate like they did before.
Scizor screwed DP up so much thanks to Bullet Punch. Pokemon like Gengar and Azelf need to adapt to the metagame. A simple solution to Gengar's problem is adding Protect to it's moveset. If Scizor comes in, you Protect, scouting for the Bullet Punch or Pursuit.
Overall, "Bulky" Offense is just dominating today's metagame to the point where frail sweepers like LO Gengar and NP Azelf can't dominate like they did before.
I thought I was the only one who did this.
For a while I ran Shadow Ball/HP Fire/Protect/T-Bolt, and the results were pretty great.
Sure, if you're a perfect player and can predict exactly what your opponents Scizor is going to do then you don't have to bother, but I am not a perfect player, and it actually worked really well for me.
Using Heavy Stall teams with a Status-er is probably the best way to counter Bulky Offense.
But any good fast set-up sweeper can effectively deal with those teams, like Gengar or NP Azelf.
But any good fast set-up sweeper can effectively deal with those teams, like Gengar or NP Azelf.
Yea, considering there are zero perfect players.
I think Heavy Stall teams can handle bulky offensive teams to an extent. Good players will work around this, however. On the other hand, I don't think any individual pokemon breaks bulky offense.
I've found recently, that NP Azelf fares Very well currently. I've been running HP evs on azelf, to ease off BP damage, and it's able to work excellently early on to break down those bulky pokemon, and make a formal lategame sweep much easier.
The only problem with that Gengar moveset is that it's easy Tyranitar pursuit bait. Gengar needs to have Focus Blast otherwise it doesn't stand a chance against Tyranitar.
a cool alternative to this is substitute with focus blast. can actually hit tyranitar (gets two shots), avoids status, and baits scizor. it's also a good scizor lure for your team.
Would substitute block a pursuit if you switched while behind a sub?
If so, Subgar would be an excellent scizor lure, not being affected by pursuit on the way out, and going to someone like Magnezone, who can eliminate Scizor on the spot, paving the way for a sweep, since it's generally Scizor that prevents this, with the ability to cast off high powered priority.
If so, Subgar would be an excellent scizor lure, not being affected by pursuit on the way out, and going to someone like Magnezone, who can eliminate Scizor on the spot, paving the way for a sweep, since it's generally Scizor that prevents this, with the ability to cast off high powered priority.
I run bulky offence more than any other team type and I can tell you, it can get fairly predictable.
Scizor's pretty much always there, same with latias. The way to break down a certain team type is just to see what those type of teams usually pack and to systematically use stuff that they're weak to. Maggy - dragon tends to work pretty well, as it can trap the popular scizor, you can then sweep with DDmence.
There are similar tricks like that. You can take advantage of latias for example with scizor. They will then be a bit more heatran or starmie weak.
Go nuts.
Scizor's pretty much always there, same with latias. The way to break down a certain team type is just to see what those type of teams usually pack and to systematically use stuff that they're weak to. Maggy - dragon tends to work pretty well, as it can trap the popular scizor, you can then sweep with DDmence.
There are similar tricks like that. You can take advantage of latias for example with scizor. They will then be a bit more heatran or starmie weak.
Go nuts.
A team with Magnezone, Scizor, and Tyranitar can be an absolute pain for bulky offense by removing some of their most important pokemon, the latias', the scizors, the jirachis, the rotoms, etc.
Once you start eliminating pieces of their defensive core, it gets difficult for them.
Once you start eliminating pieces of their defensive core, it gets difficult for them.
I have a specs jolteon on my team I run with now, when I'm not playing like an idiot it can completely sweep a team without a ground type or blissy. thunderbolt backed with specs hits ludicrously hard, almost everything gets 2HKOd. Even on neutral stuff like salamence they get completeled hammered, usually a KO after stealth rock. The only problem is that very rarely a gyrados will outspeed me after a DD, not sure why. Most people must not run jolly/252 speed.