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BW OU [BW-OU] French Orgy with Belzebuth(Peaked 3#)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Grimm70, Oct 3, 2011.

  1. Grimm70

    Grimm70

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    264
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    Hi all, I've played the 5th generation for a long time now. It is a metagame that strongly disappointed me at first, but one that I eventually became interested in. I've had the opportunity to make a great deal of teams as the metagame has evolved, including Trick Room, Sandstorm, and Sun, and I was able to contribute to the many votes that have shaped the metagame thanks to the results I've had on ladder.

    I've been playing competitive Pokémon for 2 years now and I turned out to be a rather particular player in the sense that I dislike playing as many games as everybody else. It is not a question of gimmicks, but my style is rather complex and I'm not quite sure how to describe it. What I am sure is that I like to crack down on my opponents, make them think and try to guess their thoughts; it is what we call the "mind game". I like this type of thinking as it leads to a more nerve-wracking and interesting match which is very much to my taste. Furthermore, I think that it offers a better "show" to those who spectate the match.

    Ikuso! I'm gonna present to you the team that I am the most proud of and the one that gave me the most pleasure to play (with some trick room). It is indeed a Sun team which has nothing particular at first glance but is totally innovative in the way it works. This team is the final version of a team which has continued to change as time goes by and even during the world cup. Here is the final version which allowed me to obtain very good results ( Peaked 5# with 1496 on smogon on the 08/28) and (Peaked 3# with 1525 on smogon on the 09/20) on the ladder but also during the World cup even if it seems that haxx loved me so much. My Pokémon's moves are not 100% accurate and that's why the unlucky will thus have to abstain.



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    Ninetailes (Feunard) @ Leftovers
    Trait : Drought
    EVs : 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Spd
    Nature : Timid ( +Spd / -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Solar beam
    - Hidden power [Ice]
    - Sunny day

    Ninetailes is one of the big winners in this 5th generation because he follows the example of Tyranitar. Indeed thanks to Drought he brings his own climate which is the sun when he comes into the field. Without him this team would not have been able to exist. Thus let us get straight to the point and let us analyze his set.

    Show Hide
    Ninetailes @Sunny day? WTF ? It is nevertheless complicated well. Ninetailes is the fastest weather inducer of the OU which means that in front of Politoed or Tyranitar, the sun will not be present. Another reason came to be added to it, indeed I had noticed that as soon as the opponent did not feel threatened by him and if he has the opportunity there, he will switch into his weather inducer. So as soon as Ninetailes was in the battlefield, I had the right for a switch on Politoed. After all, What was the risk for him to come? Ninetailes does not have much who could prevent Poli from coming on the field. It was the same for Tyra, only a burn could annoy him. And so came to me the idea of Sunny day. I place Ninetailes on a weak Pokémon to the fire and shall anticipate a future switch into Politoed / Tyra. From there ensue the attack Solar beam. I am assured to have the sun with me and I become dangerous with Ninetailes. Indeed, who would like to take himself one Solar beam with a TSS or a RD when the opponent is in the incapacity to place his climate? Also, who would like to eat one Fire Blast under Sun+ the stab?

    This set allows me then to put a not insignificant pressure to my opponent. It will be necessary for my opponent to switch because behind I have Dugtrio who allows me to end the opposite weather inducer. I just will have to anticipate the switch of my opponent and attack consequently. Finally for the last move I always left Hidden power Ice, please, that I not bad hesitated with Will-o-wisp. However seen the number of haxorus and Nite @lum berry, PC Ice turned out much more effective.

    Concerning the spread and the item, I had begun by playing him with the life orb and 252 in SAtk that allowed me to make of numerous OHKO with Freblast under Sun see of certain OHKO Rotom-W with Solarbeam. But my life decreased too fast and well the version with lefties did not prevent from putting the pressure I wished. I also tested him with 252 spd that allowed me to outspeed more Pokémons of whom Salamence being rarely played full speed in 5G but in the end it was better to have just of what to outspeed cheerful Excadrill without climate, knowing that of more Drattak is of played advantage Mix with a spread hurriedly lower than mine thus the problem is settled:) obvious 88 staying Evs goes to the HP.Some would have put them in special defense but well we are always brought to receive physical knocks of Ciza or I don't know who so > HP




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    Thundurus (Fulguris) @ Expert belt
    Trait : Prankster
    EVs : 192 Atk / 64 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Nature : Timid ( +Spd / -Atk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Hammer Arm
    - Hidden power [Ice]
    - Thunderbolt

    Well, I put him in second, but he is the last one Pokémon to have completed the team. It is not there to say " Hello I am too sturdy, a place in the team is missing invite me ! I am the special fill hole of this 5th generation! " Not, it is not really that. He even became almost irreplaceable in the team.

    Let's analyse the set:

    Show Hide
    Here, nothing extraordinary, classic set or maybe not? It is very recent because I was playing the full SAtk version with lefties but after posting my RMT in a French forum someone suggest me this version which is really better for my team I guess. Note that Nasty plot was on the place of T-Wave a few weeks ago. Indeed, Nasty plot seemed to me really effective because ThunUber as we call him, had the capacity to be eatable team if this last one was not prepared. Having said that, as many Sun and the other teams, Terrakion is a big threat and Jirachi @T-Wave/Body slam/Thunder could be also very annoying with its paralyses almost free. I finally had the idea to put Thunder Wave on Thundurus mainly for these two amply sufficient reasons. Terrakion scarf outspeed Venusaur under sun and could thus make big damage in my team see it being made if Venusaur has already taken a blow and if SR was put so cancelling the sash of Dugtrio.As for the double dancer, not great easy to set up but not too hard either. T Wave might be the solution of this big problem because anyway I take out him only at the end of the match. Concerning Jirachi, once paralyzed he will be slower than all of my Pokémons so...

    In brief, Thundurus is the Jocker of my team, my rescuer etc. He allows me to make good damages for the RD in case of pip and for the TSS so for the same reason, that is if I made a ball with Ninetailes. It is also with him that I lead if the match up of departure does not augur no good to me or if I am too hesitating but generally it is with Ninetailes that I shall begin.



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    Emma-ō (Heatran) @ Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs : 252 HP / 104 Def / 124 SAtk / 28 Spd
    Nature : Modest ( +SAtk / -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Earth Power
    - Magma Storm

    What to say... My pride simply. Sometimes he disappoints me to make beauty misses but well 75 % of accurency in not ugly. Quite a lot of persons think that it is normal to miss it while that has the same precision as Wow in 5G...

    Show Hide
    The role of this Pokémon? So many ! It is my stall breaker, his main role against a stall will be to take Bliss/Chancey and that will not be too much complicated. Heatran is a magnet to Bliss because it is supposed to do nothing to her and hurts hardly the other Pokémons of a stall team. Roughly we launch Magma Storm, we trap, we taunt and we end the family of the pink cows. During the first versions of my sun, his main goal was to Trap Tyranitar and to lure it because I was not playing Dugtrio, then Tyranitar did not feel threatened and came above...Now that I have Dugtrio, Tyra will be more complicated to trap seen that he will ceaselessly be afraid, but so well placed against a Gliscor,Natto or whatever under sun for example, Tyranitar's coming will be imminent if Magma Storm was not previously revealed.[/B]
    Other big role of this monster is the " POLITOED'S Trap " . Magma Storm + Erthpower + 2 Erathquake of Dugtrio and I win my weather war. I know that I 'm gonna lose 2 Pokémons, I am aware of it but against a RD, if I have the sun, Pyrax is supposed to eat the rest of the team. Who can stop him then? It is the same even with SR on the oppenent's side. To do it, it is not well complicated, the majority of Drizzle team have a Latios. In 90 % of the cases and it is not a joke, here is how takes place the match if Toed wears Choice spe. I lead with Ninetailes, him with his Rotom-W or his Politoed. For Rotom-W, it is about mind game and the analysis of team ( Scarf or not?) I can go on Freblast or Sunny day. Concerning Politoed, it is simple, I launch Sunny day, he will go on Hydropump or Whatever and then I can go on Solar beam or predict the Switch into Latios . Heatran is only 3HKO by Tios spe. My balloon will be spotted once on the ground, then what would be afraid Politoed to come on heatran knowing that he has the balloon? So much put back the rain! I thus go on Magma storm and if it is not a miss = Bingo! The game is already over...

    The last important role of this monster, the check of dragons. 252 Evs in HP and 104 in Def. Evs in defense allowed me at the beginning, to Hold 3 Super power of Tyranitar. More if I outspeed him and use Wow at first. That also allowed me to hold a Close combat of Tarrakion@ Ballon/Scarf without SR. I had recently hesitated to move these Evs of his defense. Until I play against Idiotfrommars for the world cup... He played an Infernape with expert Belt. He thought of having won the game when he placed it.Then I lauched Heatran and he throw obviously Close combat, my Hp comes down to the red, but that stops there and I revenge kill it with Earthpower. I took it as a "sign", because I had thought of moving them just 1 day before my match. And afterward I noticed that these Evs in defense served me for much more things. They allow me to be only 3HKO by Haxorus Bander, also for Dragonite. Whatever how Haxorus is I can deal with him even if it cost me 1 Pokémon. I can allow even not to use Will-o-wisp. Sometimes I shall need it and sometimes not. Ninetailes outspeed both and hurt then with HP Ice which is a 100 % of precision contrary to will-o-wisp.
    In brief, this Heatran is a pure Boss, it has a big role to play whatever the team of my oppenent is, he is the key of this team.

    Concerning the spread in SAtk, I shall have liked having it a little more to make of very numerous additional OHKO. In particular on leads as Deoxys or under sun against Bulky Conkeldur, Reuniclus and some more. But finally he makes it already not bad, OHKO Scorvol under sun and quite a lot of others. I forgot a detail also mattering enough. The TSS with Hippodocus... If Tran doesn't miss Magma Storm at turn 1, then I won the game. What Else?
    Concerning speed, he has to outspeed Nite with T Wave/Substitute/dragon-tail/Roost who enormously pissed me off when I had no necessary speed for outspeed him. I need to burn him as quickly as possible to break his special capacity. That allows me besides outspeeding all Bulky Tran with roar + SR. It is only 28 Evs but they are so helpfull.



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    Asura (Triopiquer) @ Focus Sash
    Cap.Spé : Arena Trap
    EVs : 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Nature : Jolly (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Sucker Punch
    - Reversal

    Ah! The Key² (dedication to Ro ² lool) of the team. Only this key opens roughly only 2 doors:d. Indeed, his role is limited to Trap. Either Tyra, or Politoed but also and "especially" Heatran who is the best Volcarona's counter if he has roar. His last role will be to put SR.

    Show Hide
    Concerning the set, nothing innovative or extraordinary. I'm actually testing the Adamant version. There is advantages and disavantages :( I can't outspeed Tyra scarf and Terrakion + some Politoed scarf are play modest. So at this moment and for this team I'm using the jolly version.

    Reversal replaced Stone edge and not sucker punch for some reasons I will take about later.Reversal helps me a lot in his trapping job because now I'm pretty sure that without SR I can kill weather inducer especially Toed if he is not 252 HP / 252 Def (or something similar) whithout SR.

    Many do not play him with Sucker punch. This move is nevertheless very useful. He allows to finish certainly very damaged Pokémon. And for nothing in the world I shall remove this move for the threat that Reuniclus TR is. Venusaur does like 70 % with Solar beam. Then what? He finishes all other Sun teams because you have nothing to take him down? "Damn it, that was so close ! ". It is not my case at all because I can finish him with Sucka punch ! No it is not only for Reuniclus. Suckerpunch + solarbeam from Venu Kill Landorus which is one of the biggest threat for the team + some more reasons... ( Stone edge helps for Thundurus, Tornadus and Nite and that's all but I prefer using SP.)

    In brief, I have nothing more to said on him, he makes an excellent duet with my heatran = double trapper, it is rather enormous as combo especially when we know the impact that has the climate on the match. Thus yes, I am rather proud of this combo. Oh I forgot about focus sash ! It works very well with Reversal in order to One shot Tyra, then I can put SR + reversal against him. It allows me to take car about Toed too ( thinking more particulary about the Choice spe version).



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    Venusaur (Florizarre) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Sleep Powder
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Venusaur... Welcome here in my world :d When everybody plays him with growth I play him with Sunny day not to say " hello kikoo" but by the fact that the whole team wants him to have it. Rather than to be the finisher it is the pillar of the team, the MOST important one. It is mainly around him whom the team turns and not with Ninetailes as we could think of it, Ninetailes is important of course but it has for role to entice and to weaken the opposite team. Once died, the opponent will feel safe while it is not the case thanks to Venusaur.

    Let's go for the explanation of the set:

    Show Hide
    We are going to begin with the spread. Very classic but non exchangeable, I need the max speed for the others Venu but also because otherwise Deoxys-S outspeed me down from its 504 of speed :( concerning Evs in attack spe, I need the big power of Solar beam to hurt, it is only for that because Hidden Power Fire is an OHKO for "nobody" under Sun (apart Scizor). Yes, he does not kill Nattorei, Excadrill, Zone, Jirachi or the others. That is why many Venusaur is played with the Life orbe. This item is very profitable increasing considerably the number of OHKO. But he is not in my team for that. He is here to sweep for sure but not to beat the oppenent's team alone, he is there to give a second soufle / allocate to the team once Ninetailes in trouble or KO.
    Quite as Ninetails, not a lot Pokémons are able to take a Solar beam or an Hidden power Fire having 105 of power thanks to the sun. It is a nightmare for my opponents because resistant Pokémons in his two attacks will be "put to sleep" with Sleep Powder. Yes " put to sleep" is between quotation mark because is added there another move to 75 % of accurency, brilliant move but which wants almost never worked! It is partially for that that I lost my matches of the World Cup . But 75 % of accurency, if we analyze, it is pretty good,No? I don't know... That must not be sufficient for Pokémon xd. In brief when it works it is tremendously good in any case.
    Roughly, Venusaur works as Ninetailes, we anticipate the opposite weather inducer if not died, and so has more ben of it there... We sweep, one prepare at best the battlefield for Volcarona or conversely according to the situation. Yes I am going to contradict myself but Venusaur besides being the pillar of my team is also and often the finisher and nevertheless it goes out in the middle of the game for the reasons evoked higher. Leftovers offer him an excellent staying power especially with the numerous switchs which he is going to create and attacks like Protect used by my opponent as For Gliscor for example. He takes approximately 70 % on Solar beam, that often terrifying him because I take even not 50 % on Ice fang.

    Finally well, it is an excellent Pokémon, horror for many of teams, horror who is perfectly well surrounded. I shall add however that he is the only Pokémon allowing me to handle the biggest weakness of my team, namely Landorus scarf. Terrible on paper but completely manageable with the experience and skill.




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    Lucifer (Pyrax) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs : 144 PVs / 84 Def / 120 Atq Spe / 160 Vit
    Nature : Timid ( +Spd / -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Quiver Dance
    - Morning Sun
    - Bug Buzz

    Finally! My big very favorite of this 5th generation. According to me, this Pokémon should being Uber. I have already vaguely speak about him to some of you but this Pokémon is a real devil Oo. He is capable of set up on many Pokémons, and by on whatever! He can on Pokémons which we find in the top 20 of the biggest uses. He has a really enormous special defense, a special attack rather high and a quite good speed. Add the new present of the 5G aka Quiver Dance increasing by a level your special attack, special defense and speed. Of type fire and also and especially Bug which is really welcome in my team.

    Let's go for the more in-depth analysis:

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    Hum...What I have to begin with? The Spread! I am also the author of the spread of this Volcarona after numerous calculations. First of all, the speed. Why I'm playing him timid with 160 Evs hurriedly? Simply to outspeed Excadrill without weather or under sun. It is very important because Exca is a late game sweeper and because at this stage of the game if the opponent is good, I shall have roughly Volcarona and Venusaur. I know that the SS will not be any more on the ground and sunny day lasts only 5 Turns. I thus needed this necessary and vital speed for outspeed one of the most dangerous sweepers of the game.

    Later, that complicates. I have no spinner and Volcarona is supposed to be my finisher.A Pokémon beginning with 50 % of his life,hum...Not very good. That's why I needed a minimum of Bulk and also power. Who says Sun says Morning Sun = 66 % of recovery . It is the first thing of which I thought. Then needed me a mix completed between Pvs, defense and special attack. I thus put myself in situations lived with the numerous matches which I was able to make. Roughly, I gathered all the pains in the ass who could be annoying for my Volcarona and I began to make full of calculations. Weaknesses of Volca? The poison, paralysis, Trickers and the RK with in head Tyra scarf.

    For the poison, I thought of Gliscor, if the opponent did not send him and if I am not still sure to have win, I am not going to set up and taking risks, I have to kill it with Fireblast under sun with my special spread> 98,59 116 % mission complete. For trickeurs, it is simple, I saw only Rotom. I thus needed the OHKO at + 1 with Bug Buzz and SR (yes because without SR, stop dreaming !) > 80,58 - 95,45 %. Roughly it is a 50% chance to prop up him. It is playable and then, according to what stays to my oppenent I can set up during one more turn seen that the scarf do not outspeed me at + 1. Concerning Tyra scarf > 80,7 95,61 % it is similar as Rotom, it will have been eatable at least a first attack of the style of Fireblast from Ninetailes. Roughly, completed.

    Well later had the other numerous stages with HP / def there and returned to the special attack. I had at +1 and under sun to be capable of 2HKO Blissey who would like to come on Volcarona. Take care, It hurts !! > 44,68- 52,66 %. 2HKO with SR thus (by counting lefties). In brief, I managed at these a 50 % chances to kill all these important Pokémons.

    Concerning HP and defense. Fiou, were needed calculations too. I wanted to be able to take place on Ciza Bander with SR on the battlefield. With this spread I lose between 100 and 113 HP on a BP from the bander and something like 43% on Quick attack. Roughly having taken SR I do Morning Sun and I can play in Peace. Priority was absolved, I have to contain a Double Edge from Sawsbuck with LO. I hold it 100 % (without SR because thanks to Heatran, the other sunny will have much more evil to place them, I thus have a rather big advantage with my team made:d). In 50 % needed me so enough HP to hold attacks like Hydropump from Rotom-W under sun. I hold with 50 % of luck one Hydropump from the Choice spe. I 'm talking here, of if I had to take place on him because then I can use Morning sun outspeeding him. Otherwhise I can dance in front of him. I hold otherwise any Hydropump from Rotom with 50 % under sun. It was also necessary to me to be able to make something in front of Latios Spe in case of pip.With SR and so with 50% of his life, he has a 50 % of chance to tank a DM from Tios spe at -2. Otherwise ben he has a 66 % of chance of OHKO me without SR, but if I come, it is when he is at -2 and what in case of big pip. If he does not kill me, it is GG, I dance, look after myself and life is beautiful.

    Then some people will say that all of this is very approximate. Yes it is not false,but at least, my Vlcarona can manage in numerous different situations. All these explanations I hope for it, will avoid recommendations of the style "use flamethrower, it is more precise" or I do not know what. There are many ways of playing the Butterfly. Mine is just perfect for my team, he does what I ask him. If I miss Fire blast, it is not my fault, it is pokémon:d.

    Finally well, he really does some good work and could obtain the rank of Uber seen the threat he represents for so many team. Furthermore, if Excadrill must be banished, there I shall passed him modest and omg omg omgl!!! XD



    Threat List



    • Offensive threats
    [​IMG]Dragonite - Bander or DD@ lum berry, Heatran is only 3HKO by Outrage so I can burn hoping for the none Eartquake version. If I have SR Then Ninetailes OHKO him with hidden power Ice.

    [​IMG]Haxorus - As for Dragonite I will take care of him with Tran. Most of the time he is playing in a clear skies, then HP ice from Tailes + Earthpower from tran kill him.

    [​IMG]Landorus - Ah! Here he is, the biggest threat of the team in his scarf version! Well, here is all about anticipation and weather war. If Tyra died, Venusaur takes care of him without too much difficulty.

    [​IMG]Latios - As I explained it in the analysis of the team, Heatran will make him run away (2HKO by Magma storm under sun if he wants to stay) and trap Politoed. When I have the sun, it is good. Otherwise, that can become a little more complicated.

    [​IMG]Reuniclus - If SR are set up, the TR version can be painfull.Hopfully, under sun all my fire move + sucker punch from Dug kill him.

    [​IMG]Terrakion - Not easy to handle under SS. Thundurus will help a lot, Heatran too + Duggy.

    [​IMG]Thundurus - Especially the T-wave version. Tailes does like 85% or OHKO the Naive version. If he comes on Venu, I will send my own Thundurus and use T-wave too.

    [​IMG]Tornadus - It depends a lot of the weather war. If my oppenent doesn't have SR and if I killes Politoed then Volcarona at +1 or Venusaur if I have SR, Heatran if still alive.


    • Defensive threats
    [​IMG]Blissey - Heatran + Dugtrio.

    [​IMG]Heatran - I HAVE TO ANTICIPATE HIM, explose his balloon and then send Dugtrio hopping being not burn ^^. As I said earlier, he is the main Target for Dugtrio even if Tyranitar is in my oppenent's team because Volcarona can't sweep until Heatran is alive. Thanks, my Heatran outspeed him ^^

    [​IMG]Tentacruel - Yes, because he takes nothing on a Fireblast, solar beam, Earthpower and Earthquake from Dug is not an OHKO most of the time, then my oppenent can switch and switch again on Politoed.

    [​IMG]


    Here is the end! This team is really not for begginer, even very good player will not be able to play it because it asks so many "things". You have to know perfectly about the team first and about the metagame then. This team doesn't work as a standard team because of sunny day, the differents combos etc.

    As you can see ( I recieved so many mp saying " You have no spinner, it is a big problem no? ") I have no spinner, no place for it that's why you have to play carrefuly. SR Setuper are Tyranitar, Blissey, Jirachi, nattorei,Foretress > With the Ninetailes pressure + Taunt Heatran you should be able to avoid your oppenent of puttting SR except for Tyranitar, if you anticipate well and send Dug it is ok. The other SR setuper are Heatran, here you can use Heatran but you really want to kill him, he will put SR most of the time and Deoxys-S for sure... You have to do with it. Don't forget that Venusaur is a pain for the oppenent and don't forget that Volcarona has a god's spread ^^

    I really take pleasure to build this team and I wanted to waste a lot of time for the presentation of this RMT because during the World cup, I thought I will stop Pokémon after it. So I wanted to do something very beautifful + I really think that this team is so different from the others...I'm still thinking about stoping Pokémon but thanks to the smogon tour, even if I'm able to play only once a week (because of Macdonald ^^') It motivates me, thanks to the Smogon staf.

    So, I hope you will enjoy it and sorry for my English which is not perfect yet ^^

    Edit: Thanks to Zephyr, Fatecrashers and Kevin_Garrett because they help me a little concerning the grammar :)

    Importable
    Show Hide
    Ninetailes (Ninetales) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - SolarBeam
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Sunny Day

    Thundurus (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 192 Atk / 64 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Hammer Arm
    - Thunder Wave
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Venusaur (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Sleep Powder
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Emma-ō (Heatran) (F) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 124 SAtk / 28 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Magma Storm
    - Earth Power

    Asura (Dugtrio) (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Sucker Punch
    - Reversal

    Lucifer (Volcarona) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 144 HP / 84 Def / 120 SAtk / 160 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Quiver Dance
    - Morning Sun
    - Bug Buzz
  2. NatGeo

    NatGeo kauai
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,426
    I'm not gonna lie, two things; Excellent teambuild, but I choked witht his thing r1 of #dreamworld tournament lol. The team itself is pretty good and I think actually if you give Volcarona a Sub you'll be much better off against Landorus and Reuniclus (Scarf still outspeeds which sucks). That's the only really major thing that I could think of, though if you honestly have that many problems with Landorus you could run Chlorophyll Tangrowth; you can't outspeed Deoxys-S but most of them can't touch Volcarona, so you should be fine for most versions with smart playing. You also do good against quite a few Tyranitar these days which is a plus. Hope this rate helped, and good luck!
  3. Aldaron

    Aldaron indefatigable workhorse
    is a Tournament Directoris a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administrator
    OU and IRC Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,591
    Not a rate, just two comments.

    First, love the heatran picture lol, really bad ass.

    Second, love the idea of Sunny Day on Ninetales. Sunny Day on Tar / hippo / toed switch ins and safely beam away...sounds pretty cool.
  4. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    264
    Hi buddy,

    cool sun team. The only thing I'm going to critique is Ninetales and lack of Rapid Spinner. I run a very similar set, with some minor changes. I'll post it in a hide tag at the bottom. The special attack stat you want to hit is 253 which means you want 224 SAtk EV. This gives you a clean 3HKO on max TTar and max Politoed. That gives you enough room for more bulk.

    Also Stealth Rock's wrecks 5/6 members of your team and you don't have a Rapid SPinner. I reccommend running a Physically Defenisve Donphan. It will offer a safe switchin into Excadrill, which you don't have. Preferably over Dugtrio. 252 HP/252 Def/4 Atk Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, Earthquake, Ice Shard.

    GL

    Show Hide
    Ninetales (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 132 SAtk / 108 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Sunny Day
    - Flamethrower
    - SolarBeam
  5. CaseyL

    CaseyL

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    Your Ninetales set is pure genius. This team is fantastically well made, has excellent synergy. One thing though, you say opposing Heatran can cause issues for your team, but if it runs Air Balloon, Thunderus can outrun it and hit it with Hammer Arm, and if it runs any other item ( including Choice Scarf), then Dugtrio traps and KOs with Earthquake.
    Excellent job on the team, good luck.
  6. Pippy

    Pippy

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    I see right off the bat that you are EXTREMELY WEAK TO STEALTH ROCK! You have no spiner, and 3 of Pokes, including your MVP, Volcarona, are weak to it. To remedy this, I recommend replacing Thundurus with Starmie.

    Starmie @ Lefties
    Trait: Natural Cure | Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Spd
    Rapid Spin/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Recover

    Starmie would not only protect you from SR, but it's Ice Beam would give you a way of shutting down dragons who threaten you. You would still be protected from Terrakion, as Starmie can take it outside of sun, and Venusaur can take it in the sun.
    Other than that, it's a nice team, and I really like those pics. ;)
  7. undisputed

    undisputed
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    nice team dude! those are some pretty bad ass pictures. where did you get them?
  8. WhiteQueen

    WhiteQueen boner dethroner
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    i would forfeit to give you the win just because of those ridiculously bad ass pictures haha.

    by the way, fiery dance > fire blast on volcarona. after it knocks off something, it has a 50% of increasing its already humongous sp.attk even more, and most of the time you do get the boost. fire blast also misses, which is not worth it

    other than that, you do need a spinner. a sunny day team with volcarona without a spinner makes me uncomfortable
  9. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    Dude. Sick Sick RMT. I absolutely love the pics, format and everything about it.

    First of all, your Ninetails and Venusaur combination have made Duggy pretty obsolete. Your team is already pretty much designed to bait out and kill the opposing weather summoners. The only thing really its doing is beating Heatran. I suggest using a Choice Band Scizor in this slot instead. It patches up your Reuniclus weakness. Your team is also bound to have troubles against DD Dragons, especially Dragonite and Salamence. Its not like Scizor was ever going to survive a fire move in the first place, and Heatran is there to absorb.

    Show Hide

    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Technician
    Adamant
    248 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 8 SpD
    Bullet Punch
    U-Turn
    Superpower
    Pursuit


    As for fixing up the Heatran issue. I suggest swapping to a Substitute Volcorona. Offensive Heatran has no business vs Volcorona, and Specially defensive can be brute forced through with Substitute shielding you from Toxic.

    Show Hide

    Volcorona @ Leftovers
    Flame Body
    Timid
    252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 Def
    Quiver Dance
    Substitute
    Fiery Dance
    Bug Buzz


    As well, I suggest running HP Grass over Taunt on Heatran so you can smack Poli harder before going out. You're not using Taunt much anyways.
  10. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
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    Love your Sun-team and your presentation! It makes me want to start playing Drought again MHMM.

    Anyways, I agree with at least testing Chlorophyll Tangrowth. It's incredibly bulky on the physical side and will take on the priority fighting-type moves that Heatran hates. Give it max Speed and a set of Power Whip / Hidden Power Fire / Growth / (Earthquake or Rock Slide or Sleep Powder or Sunny Day). I think you might be pleasantly surprised by the results!

    If you opt for Earthquake on Tangrowth, it can take on Heatran after you sac a Pokemon and OHKO. Then perhaps you could put Sunny Day Espeon with a Heat Rock on your team? That would alleviate Stealth Rock for the rest of your team while giving you an answer to Thundurus. But whatever you decide upon, I think that this team PROVES that Sun-based teams don't need Rapid Spin support. Methinks our playing styles might be a little similar, and I can relate to the idea of not needing one. Your goal isn't to switch around a whole bunch. It's to dent huge holes with Fire-type moves under Sun to win the game. So absolute congratulations on that.

    I dunno, these are some crazy suggestions that probably aren't optimal. You seem very set with your team. Kudos!
  11. Box

    Box

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    Bloody fantastic team, bloody fantastic RMT. Did you do the artwork yourself? Bloody wicked stuff man.

    Not much to say except I feel that Dugtrio is more or less obsolete in today's metagame and even on your team to an extent. Try Excadrill instead. Not only can he Rapid Spin, he can function as a last-ditch effort too crush Sand Teams if ever your Ninetales goes down. You definitely need a Rapid Spinner on this team. If you don't want to use Excadrill, Scarf Starmie with BoltBeam can function as a useful revenge killer against Dragons and Landorus, and also Spins. Unfortunately, Rapid Spin isn't the best of moves to be locked into...
  12. WarriorPrince

    WarriorPrince

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    I see what you are getting at, but I think you are overlooking Dugtrio's role. He is a far cry from obsolete. He traps and kills both T-tar and Politoed, not to mention Heatran. Not only does this help keep the Sun shineth upon thee, but Volcorona can proceed to sweep with the absence of Heatran. Sure, Excradrill is awesome, but I don't it's worth it on this Sun Team, at least not over Dugtrio.

    Amazing team Grimm. I think this team has reached its potential. The is very little room for improvement. Rapid Spin Starmie may be worth a shot over over Thundurus, but other than that this team is damn near perfect. Honestly, there doesn't really seem to be a place for a spinner. Nothing is really worth replacing, seeing how Thunderus ruins Double Dance Terrakions "fun".

    Show Hide
    Starmie @ Lefties
    Trait: Natural Cure | Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Spd
    Rapid Spin/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Recover

    ~Same one that was posted earlier.
  13. Grimm70

    Grimm70

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    It is the first quote I have to do because he resums an important thing. There is no place for a spinner in this team because no one can be replace :(

    If thundurus will be ban, I will try Starmie then but with a different move set I guess.

    So:

    WarriorPrince> Thanks a lot for this rate, you perfectly understand the team and you are totaly right in what you said.

    Zurich> Thanks for the comment. Concerning Sub Volcarona, I don't understand how he will help me against Landorus because if I 'm predicting well I can kill him + the fact is that without spinner I can't use SubVolcarona.

    About Tangrowth, he is a good element for some sunny team but I can't replace Venusaur. First, Venusaur is faster and faster than Politoed which is very important. Venusaur can tank an Ice beam from Scarf Poli whereas Tangrowth can't. Maybe against Thundurus? I will think about it.

    Aldaron> Thanks ^^

    Dezza Laa> I need 252 Evs in Tailes because after SR, it is not a 100% chance of killing Dragonite with HP[Ice] and I really need to do a maximum of damage. There is not only Tyranitar and Politoed but also Rotom-W which is KO afater a fireblast + solar beam ( I'm not sure it is the case with your version ) and for other reasons.

    About Donphan, you suggest me to replace Dugtrio who is in a combo with Tran...If I won the weather war against a RD, I don't care about SR. Against a Sandstromr team it is different but there is then to many ways for my oppenent to put something into Donphan like jellicent or I don't know. What do I have to do against a scald? get a free burn on Venusaur? This is not a good idea :(
    Thanks for the comment and trying to help :)

    CaseyL> Wow, I really enjoyed this rate. Thanks a lot. But concerning Heatran, the fact is that he will put free SR if he has ballon and then runaway when I will siwtch with a "counter ". This is the main problem because then he can roar and Volcarona is not able to handle him :(

    Pippy> Yes it's true but Starmie, do you really think he will help? Well with HP[Fire] maybe but not with this set. What can I do against a Jellicent? What can I do against Ferothorn if he his my openent's SR? Starmie is not a bad idea but I need an offense pressure. Imagine ferothorn coming on my Starmie, What I have to do then? Free T-Wave for him. Same for jellicent, I will not be able to spinn, not be able to hit Blissey etc.

    Thanks for all btw, as you can see, it is not easy to find solutions :(

    undisputed> I remembered I tape the French, american and Japonese names on Google. I found all of them with the English ones. But then, I used Photoshop in all of them. ( Thanks ^^)

    WhiteQueen> Lol thanks for the pictures ^^ Concerning Fiery dance, it is a pretty good move for Volcarona but I really need Fireblast on my Volcarona because the team need it. If you didn't, try to take a look to what I wrote on the Volcarona description please.

    New World Order> Thanks, I really enjoyed your rate.

    About Scizor, I have to say that Dug is not obsolete as you said :( and concerning Hp grass it is not usefull wit only 70BS. + I use Taunt in like ervey match. Dragoons like Tias, Dragonite if roost, Blissey, Pokémons who puts SR like Foretress, Bliss, Tyranitar if traped by Vortex magma. It helps against Jellicent. He loves coming into Heatranunder Sun. Taunt and then I can kill a Jellicent losing only like 30% maximum of my life ^^. Taunt helps against Volacrona too and against BP team.

    Birkal> Thanks for the rate man and for your support ^^

    Box>Oo omg, I really didn't expect comments like that. I really do not regret to take all this time to write this RMT then. Thanks all of you.

    Concerning Excadrill, i already tested it some monthes ago with a very old version of this team but he is not apropriate :( Same for Starmie as I said in a previous quote.


    Thanks again all. I really enjoyed your rates :)
  14. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    Hmm... I'm not really sure what function Dugtrio is serving. You've got your bait Ninetails and Heatran to lure it in. The first which could dispose of Politoed with Solarbeam, and the latter which can trap it for Thundurus to finish off. If both those strategies fail. You can always sac Ninetails to make your opponent feel safe about getting Toad in. Then Venusaur comes out and wins you the match in basically one move. Tyranitar is even more pathetic. Same deal with Ninetails. Solarbeam is going to hit Tyranitar pretty hard without that nice special defense sand boost to hide behind. Heatran too, can easily trap Ttar and have Thundurus finish things off with a Hammer Arm.

    If I'm not mistaken, Magma Storm traps opponents for at least 2 turns. If you're worried about the trap wearing off, then I suggest a new move on Heatran: Explosion. You go out with a bang for turn 1 as the opposing weather inducer wastes a turn doing whatever. Then on turn 2, Hammer Arm/ Thunderbolt from Thundurus seal the deal. Earth Power probably has the least utility for your team, so its the best candidate for replacing with Explosions.

    I'd give you a Luvdisc. But I don't seem to be allowed to. Anybody know why?
  15. undisputed

    undisputed
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    If you want to give luvdiscs, you have to send a special permission application to Bloo.

    Grimm, you photoshopped all these? That's damn good dude. Also dugtrio is a good idea don't worry about it. I can't think of anything off the bat that wouldn't make you weaker. It's BW; you'll always be open to something no matter what you use.
  16. Grimm70

    Grimm70

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  17. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

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    I understand what you mean, but if Dugtrio's Focus Sash isn't in tact, it won't be able to OHKO TTar... I would seriously consider changing Dugtrio for Donphan and giving Heatran Max SAtk, a power herb and Solarbeam, It sounds gimmicky yes, but once someone did this to my Politoed and it was a clean OHKO. Many will get cocky and leave Politoed in on Heatran, especially under Rain, so at least consider that.

    Show Hide
    252 SpAtk Heatran SolarBeam vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Politoed: 89.44% - 105.59%
    33.33% chance to OHKO
    252 SpAtk Heatran SolarBeam vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Politoed: 54.17% - 64.06%
    2 hits to KO


    Either way if Dugtrio has lost his Focus Sash he will be doing pathetic damage to Politoed. Heatran has the surprise factor, and will do plenty of damage to Politoed, regardless of full health or not. And then you can Solarbeam on Ninetales which is another surprise ._.
  18. Grimm70

    Grimm70

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    The fact is that you have to consider who are able to put SR in this 5th generation. There is:

    Ferothorn, Tyranitar, Blissey/Chansey, Jirachi, Forteress, Deoxys-S, Donphan.

    I can see them most of the time. Heatran outspeed Fero, Tyra, Bliss, Foretress and Donphan. Do you think Jirachy want to use SR in front of Heatran? Then the big problem for my team is Deoxys-S.

    Now, if you consider most of the RD team it is Ferothorn who will put SR, It will be very very very hard for him to put it against a Ninetailes with Sunny day. Most of the time the only problem I have is the 30% from Scald which is BS.

    Against a TSS( = team sandstorm), Tyranitar is the main Pokémon using SR. Well not really, today it is Heatran I guess which is bull shit for my team :d


    Concerning heatran it is rarely an OHKO. I already thought to a Sunny day + solar beam version but... I prefer the set I have... Because, yes, I'm proud of it being alone to use it and to combine it with Dugtrio.
  19. Mforz

    Mforz

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    Awesome team.Just curious,what do you do against other volcaronas?Especially the ones with hp ground
  20. Stunt

    Stunt

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    Deoxys-S leads or even suicide forretress leads could cause your team trouble. Sun teams shouldn't have such a glaring rock weakness.

    Then again most of the rapid spinners suck :(
  21. Grimm70

    Grimm70

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    Generally I have a big advantage against other sun team because of my Volcarona. at +1 under sun with Fireblast I OHKO Darmanitan, with SR, Infernape, without SR Volcarona dies... Most of them for XXXX reasons are play modest or Bold which mean I outspeed them and even if he is at +1, i can take a fierry dance, then dance and use morning sun.


    Lol Stunt, I know, I know :(
  22. CaseyL

    CaseyL

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    @ Dezza Laa
    Doesn't rain make Solarbeam's power 60? HP Grass will do more, so long as it has 70 power.
  23. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    White Herb negates the halving of Solar Beam as well.

    Yea, Dugtrio is pretty clutch for this team, especially since Heatran walls half the team (even more if it has Air Balloon). If you read Grimm70's discussion, Magma Storm + EP + 2 EQ is a kill on Politoed. Most hazard layers for Rain teams are Ferrothorn, Blissey, and Tentacruel, all handled by Heatran / Venusaur. Ninetales has SunnyBeam, which is a great counter-measure against Politoed anyhow, and Venusaur with Lefties can tank a hit from Politoed as well, and set up Sunny Day.

    Great team!
  24. Grimm70

    Grimm70

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    Power herb works under water too with a 120 BP for Solar beam.
  25. I love volcarona, heatran, thundurus pictures rly xD. Heatran loos like wtf is that? xD However, That's a cool sun team. I would try Specs Overheat or Eruption heatran, Is a beast in Sun teams and a darmatian Scarf w/ flare blitz. Both are really powerfull. Also, make that volcarona 252 sp atk 252 spe Fiery Dance, Bug Buzz, Hp Ground, Quiver Dance. It's a better set and use a good spinner. :D Good Luck!

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