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BW2 In-Game Tier List Discussion [Updated 7/24]

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Stellar, Jul 2, 2012.

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  1. Stellar

    Stellar dreams and adventure
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    Orange Islands

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Pokémon Black/White Version 2
    In-Game Tier List Discussion

    What is an in-game tier list?
    In-game tier lists rank Pokémon according to their usefulness during the main portion of the game—that is, until the credits roll for the first time. In-game tier lists provide players with the information needed to complete the game as quickly and as effortlessly as possible. For competitively-minded players, this approach to playing the game gives them more immediate access to useful items, TMs, and HMs.

    What are the tiers?
    In this in-game tier list there will be five tiers. Pokémon that are the most useful belong in Top Tier, while Pokémon that are the least useful belong in Bottom Tier. There tiers are as follows:
    • Top Tier
    • High Tier
    • Middle Tier
    • Low Tier
    • Bottom Tier
    Pokémon the belong in Top Tier are found early in the game or at a high level, can defeat enemies easily, have strong level-up move-pools, have useful typing, have high stats, learn a variety of TMs and HMs, and match up well against the game's trainers, gym leaders, and Elite 4. Other aspects, such as self-healing and useful abilities, also positively contribute to a Pokémon's tiering.

    Which Pokémon are available in Pokémon Black Version 2 and Pokémon White Version 2?
    The newest entries in the Pokémon franchise add a whopping 150 Pokémon to Unova's Pokédex. These additions lend unparalleled diversity to the game. Below, you can find a list of locations as well as the Pokémon that appear in each location. These locations are listed in the order they can be accessed in the game. Routes and Pokemon that only appear in the post-game are omitted from this list. A Pokemon is only listed in the area in which it first appears.
    Code:
    Aspertia City: Snivy, Tepig, Oshawott
    Route 19: Patrat, Purrloin
    Route 20: Sewaddle, Pidove, Sunkern, Venipede [requires Basic Badge], Audino [requires Basic Badge], Dunsparce [requires Basic Badge]
    Sangi Ranch: Lillipup, Azurill, Mareep, Psyduck, Riolu
    ---Gym 1---
    Virbank Complex: Magby [Black Version 2], Elekid [White Version 2], Koffing, Magnemite, Growlithe
    ---Gym 2---
    Castelia Sewers: Rattata, Zubat, Grimer
    Relic Path [Part 1]: Roggenrola, Woobat, Timburr, Onix, Drilbur
    Castelia City: Cottonee [Black Version 2], Petilil [White Version 2], Buneary [Black Version 2], Skitty [White Version 2], Eevee
    Route 4: Sandile, Darumaka, Scraggy, Trubbish [Black Version 2], Minccino [White Version 2], Braviary [White Version 2, Thursday], Mandibuzz [Black Version 2, Thursday]
    ---Gym 3---
    Desert Resort: Maractus, Scraggy, Sandshrew, Dwebble, Sigilyph, Trapinch
    Relic Castle: Yamask
    Route 16: Gothita [Black Version 2], Solosis [White Version 2], Minccino, Trubbish, Emolga
    Lostlorn Forest: Roselia, Combee, Heracross [Black Version 2], Pinsir [White Version 2], Pansear, Panpour, Pansage
    ---Gym 4---
    Driftveil Drawbridge: Ducklett
    Driftveil City: Zorua
    Route 6: Deerling, Shelmet, Foongus, Karrablast, Castform
    ---Gym 5---
    Relic Castle: Volcarona
    [Surf Unlocked] Frillish, Basculin, Buizel
    Chargestone Cave: Joltik, Klink, Ferroseed, Tynamo, Nosepass
    Route 7: Zebstrika, Zangoose, Seviper, Cubchoo [Winter only]
    Celestial Tower: Litwick, Elgyem
    ---Gym 6---
    Rebirth Mountain: Skorupi, Spoink [Black Version 2], Numel [White Version 2], Skarmory, Drifblim
    Stranger's House: Banette
    Undella Town: Staryu
    Undella Bay: Remoraid, Spheal [Winter only]
    Seaside Cave: Seel
    Route 14: Swablu, Mienfoo, Absol
    Route 13: Tangela, Pelipper, Lunatone, Solrock
    Village Bridge: Lapras [Surf spot only]
    Route 11: Gligar
    Route 9: Pawniard
    ---Gym 7---
    Route 22: Delibird
    ---Gym 8---
    Giant Chasm: Clefairy, Vanillish, Sneasel, Piloswine, Ditto, Metang
    Route 23: Bouffalant, Sawk [Black Version 2], Throh [White Version 2], Vullaby [Black Version 2], Rufflet [White Version 2]
    Victory Road: Golurk, Druddigon, Zweilous
    
    Are Hidden Hollow Pokémon being considered for this tier list?
    No. The randomness with which these Pokémon generate make them ill-suited for tiering.

    Where can I see the current rankings?
    Here is a link to the current rankings. Every post that contained an actual ranking (Top, High, etc.) was counted.

    Here is a quick guide to the spreadsheet:

    Column A: Name
    Column B: # of votes for Bottom
    Column C: # of votes for Low
    Column D # of votes for Mid
    Column E: # of votes for Top
    Column F: # of votes for High
    Column G: Total Point Value [=(B*1+C*2+D*3+E*4+F*5)]
    Column H: Total # of votes
    Column I: Average Rank (Weighted) [=G/H]
    Column J: Final (Conservative) Rank [=ROUND(I,0)]
    • Top = 5
    • High = 4
    • Mid = 3
    • Low = 2
    • Bottom = 1
    Column K: Verified? (If # of votes >=3, YES)

    I am only going to add a Pokemon to the tier list if it has received at least three votes. Any Pokemon that has a 0 in the Verified? column needs more votes.

    Here is a link to the current tier list.
  2. Stellar

    Stellar dreams and adventure
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    Top Tier
    • Darumaka
    • Drilbur
    • Magnemite
    • Scraggy
    High Tier
    • Axew
    • Joltik
    • Oshawott
    • Petilil
    • Riolu
    • Roselia
    • Sandile
    • Sigilyph
    • Zorua
    Mid Tier
    • Azurill
    • Ducklett
    • Growlithe
    • Mandibuzz
    • Mareep
    • Sewaddle
    • Snivy
    • Tepig
    • Trapinch
    • Volcarona
    Low Tier
    • Flareon
    • Psyduck
  3. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    Magnemite for Top Tier.

    Seriously, he's one of the best pokemon to use in BW2, I'm not even kidding. Magnemite comes before Roxie and he's just like 1 level away from Sonicboom, which at the point you get it, utterly 1-2HKOs anything and everything. This is some badass offense right there. The only thing that probably comes close is BW1 Lillipup. Training? Who cares? He destroys Roxie like no tomorrow, immune to 95% of her stuff and forcing her to be stuck to resisted Tackle. The gym is almost like his personal private training ground. His long list of resistances makes him extremely great throughout the game (the only reason why he isn't high imo is because he flops a bit against Plasma/Clay). Having early Thunder Wave is a plus as well (don't be like me and remove TWave, never remove TWave period). After Elesa Magnemite gets a somewhat reliable STAB in Volt Switch, which runs off his great Special Attack. He goes from zero to hero on the way to Mistralton, where he evolves into GOD MODE Magnezone, boasting a bitching special attack stat of 115, proceeds to destroy the local gym and while being a generally cool guy. Once you get to Lacunosa, his true potential unlocks as he gets Thunder, which utterly decimates everything.

    The only thing holding him back is crippling weaknesses to common stuff in the game (Fighting and Fire), but if you get Sturdy Magnemite nobody really minds much since he can just slip in a sonicboom/thundershock somewhere and be on his way. In fact, his resistances to almost everything else (seriously he's only neutral to water ._.) make up for weaknesses.

    also Lucario might have gamebreaking properties since it is possible to get him before cheren, fighting/steel with 100+ attack stats earlygame gg
  4. Stellar

    Stellar dreams and adventure
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a SPL Winner
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    I'm going to go through and post short blurbs about each of the Pokemon I have used so far. I've played the game twice, this post will contain the Pokemon I used during my first play-through.

    [​IMG]
    Azurill: Low Tier
    Assuming you capture one with Huge Power, Azurill is surprisingly decent at the beginning of the game. Although its only attack is Bubble, you gain access to the Frustration TM immediately after capturing it. At this point in the game, Frustration does loads of damage due to Azurill's being a Normal type. Azurill performs well against Cheren because it can repeatedly use Charm, which forces Patrat/Lillipup to use Work Up. After defeating Cheren, you receive the Return TM from Bianca, which helps with Frustration's diminishing power. After the first gym, Azurill's usefulness quickly disappears. Its paltry Attack isn't enough to keep up with the rest of the game and you are required to evolve it before level 21 or else you miss out on Marill's only physical STAB attack, Aqua Tail, until Driftveil's move relearner. Marill evolves again immediately due to a level 18 evolution, but Azumarill is still way too slow to compete with the rest of the game.

    [​IMG]
    Riolu: Mid Tier
    At first, Riolu seems like it is an amazing Pokemon; however, it doesn't really live up to the hype. You don't get Force Palm until level 15 (which for most people is after the first gym battle) and happiness evolutions are always a pain. It helps somewhat that Riolu/Azurill come with higher happiness than normal in BW2 (both of mine evolved at 19). Force Palm is nice and everything, but Lucario is stuck with it for a majority of the game (CC at 55... urgh). Bone Rush at 29 helps a bit with the hoards of Sturdy Pokemon (Magnemite, Boldore, etc.), but it is still very, very weak. Lucario performs decently against Burgh, but can't really do much damage against Leavanny. It can't train very well in the desert, Elesa is a pain, Clay is a pain, Skyla is a pain ... it could go on forever. Lucario just doesn't mesh well with BW2. It doesn't learn very many useful TMs, but its typing and stats are great.

    [​IMG]
    Elekid: Low Tier
    Electabuzz is one of my favorite Pokemon, but using Elekid was a horrible experience. Yes, it is very fast, but it is equally weak and frail. You get Shock Wave pretty quickly, which is nice for a whole five minutes until the rest of the game catches up with you. Electric/Fighting is pretty poor offensive coverage in this game due to the huge number of Ground types. Another downside to using Elekid is that you have to use it for twenty levels before it evolves into Electabuzz. You also don't get the Electrizer until the end of the main story line, so Electivire is pretty much out of the question. While Electabuzz/Electivire might have nice coverage in OU, you probably aren't going to dish out the shards required for Ice Punch. Electabuzz struggles against Elesa, Clay, and Drayden, but does well against Skyla and Marlon. All-in-all, a pretty cool Pokemon but the effort required to make it decent isn't worth it.

    [​IMG]
    Trapinch: Mid Tier
    Trapinch is a mixed-bag. On one hand, it essentially has Bulldoze/Rock Slide from the very beginning with 100 base Attack. On the other hand, its slow as molasses and you have to use it/Vibrava until level 45 (around the 7th gym). Vibrava is pretty terrible because it loses the base 100 Attack, so you are going to struggle with the game's high leveled Pokemon. Unlike BW, Flygon gets Dragon Tail upon evolution instead of Dragon Claw, which makes your strongest Dragon attack Dragonbreath for the entire game. Luckily, Flygon has decent Special Attack so you can make use of Earth Power/Dragonbreath. Trapinch gets easy levels in Elesa's two gyms and does pretty well against Clay. It sucks against Skyla, but does pretty well against Drayden. Keep in mind that you are relying on Dragonbreath to KO his Dragons rather than Dragon Claw/Outrage. Like Electabuzz, the effort required to raise Flygon isn't really worth it. I wouldn't really recommend catching Trapinch in Resort Desert. You get level 38 Vibrava right after Skyla's gym and at that point you already have the Bulldoze/Rock Slide TMs. It just really isn't worth it to train Trapinch 20 levels just to encounter a Vibrava of the same level.

    [​IMG]
    Aron: Mid Tier
    Let me make one thing clear, Aron's typing is phenomenal in this game. It gains a ton of easy levels in Skyla's gym because only Ducklett/Swanna can hit it for super-effective damage. Although it comes pretty late, it comes around level 30 which is pretty much on par with the rest of your team. It starts with Iron Head, and the Rock Slide TM is found in the same location as Aron. You can round out the set with Bulldoze/Thunder Wave to help with its low Speed. It evolves into Lairon within a couple levels of capture, as well. The next gym after Skyla is Drayden, which Aron's absolutely rocks. The only Flygon in the gym belongs to Drayden himself, so you can use the other trainers for easy EXP. Aggron sucks against Marlon, but does pretty well against the hoards of Plasma grunts with their Poison types. You get Rock Polish immediately after Skyla and Aggron learns Autotomate by level-up, so its Speed isn't really a huge issue in the major battles. Aggron performs decently against the Elite 4, it can take out Shauntal's Cofagrigus/Drifblim, but it needs to watch out for burn. It can also take out Grimsley's Liepard/Bisharp and Caitlin's entire team aside from Focus Blast Reuniclus. Assuming you have Sturdy, you can Rock Polish against Iris's Hydreigon and do some major work on her team. By this point in the game, you should have enough shards to teach Aggron Ice Punch, so you really only need to worry about Focus Sash Earthquake Haxorus. The reason this is mid-tier rather than high-tier is that it requires some in-battle set-up to rectify its Speed.

    I'll make a new post later containing my second-playthrough team.
  5. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    One thing you got wrong is in Rebirth Mountain. Trapinch isn't exclusive to Black 2, Spoink is. Trapinch is available in both games. Mandibuzz also appears on Thursdays, not Mondays if I recall correctly. That's all I got on that front for now at least.

    For now I got:

    Snivy for Low Tier (or possibly Middle)

    I like it, don't get me wrong, but Snivy is quite disappointing throughtout the game. Sure, it's kinda bulky and pretty fast, but it has a difficult time doing much. It fairs well against Cheren thanks to its bulk, but can't do much against Roxie without multiple Growth boosts, even if you by then should/could have Servine. Burgh is no different; Servine gets murdered by Leavanny and Swadloon is almost a full stop. Dwebble is no trouble due to its Rock-typing though. When it comes to Elesa, it does resist her Electric-type assaults, but Emolga is a challenge due to its Aerial Ace, while Flaffy got the Special Defense to take unboosted special attacks. When it comes to Clay, it has time to shine; especially if it has evolved. Krokorok and Sandslash are easily dealth with, while Excadrill can be worn down with boosted hits; however, it can also hit back hard. Skyla is yet another stop for the starter. Skarmory has a 4x resitance to its STAB moves, while both Swoobat and Swanna can do huge ammounts of damage. When you get to Yamaji Town and have enough Blue Shards you can teach Serperior Dragon Pulse. This will be a great addition to its movepool as it allows it to hits Drayden's Dragons super effectively, though it will need a boost to give Druddigon a huge smack on the head. The last gym is, by no suprise, a really easy one for Serperior. It hits all of Marlon's Pokemon super effectively with Giga Drain, which it should have by now. The only real problems are Wailord's Bounce and Jellicent's special bulk. The league is a mixed bag. It hits some Pokémon super effectively, and some Pokémon resists its Grass-type moves. Iris means trouble without Dragon Pulse, and even the it's iffy.

    When it comes to the general trainer base, it's pretty much a mixed bag. It has trouble with some and an easy time against the others; this is due to its typing and shallow movepool, which its main problem overall. Team Plasma's many Poison-types are troublesome. Snivy is also weak to many common types, like already stated.

    Other suggestions I don't have time to write anything about though, but I will if no one has done so:

    Trapinch for Middle Tier
    Riolu for High Tier
    Ducklett for Middle Tier

    That's all for now. Hope I did it right (first time).
  6. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Yeah, I'd have to agree with this. My best pokemon so far.. conveniently evolved into Magneton only to evolve again like 5 minutes later.

    And if you happen to catch Magnemite with Magnet Pull, that's OK, too. While you don't necessarily need to, I trained mine up a few levels before taking on the second gym. Pretty much all you run into (thanks to Magnet Pull's outside of battle ability) is more Magnemites which are 1) easily walled and beaten at level 10 and 2) provide handy SpAtk EVs in addition to experience points. While it's not a huge amount of SpAtk EVs most likely, Magnemite was my hardest hitter even with measly Thundershock. So while it has 2 different abilities, both are useable (though I still want Sturdy, I think).

    Also, I ditched Snivy a while ago. Pretty underwhelming.
  7. OVERGRO

    OVERGRO

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    Yes! Thanks for making this as I suggested earlier in the old BW2 thread! I'm starting my first of probably multiple playthroughs now.

    Tepig will be good I predict, and so will Oshawott, both starters with good typing.
  8. Gazooki

    Gazooki Wi-Fi Blacklisted

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    Finally, something I'm qualified to comment on...

    Seconding this. Got Magnemite before taking on Roxie for the sole reason that it could take on those Poison-types with ease, ended up keeping it for the whole game. Sonicboom is brilliant at that stage, since it does a fixed amount of damage it can 2-3hko anything reliably til you get past Burgh. Sure, it's totally useless against Clay but it's not like you have to solo the game with this guy.

    Volt Switch is a welcome addition to its movepool after beating Elesa since it's more powerful than Thundershock is at that point and allows you to bring in a teammate to gain some more experience or turn a bad matchup in your favour (although once the game is in English or you have a translation patch this problem is mitigated somewhat). Thunder Wave is great too, I didn't make TM13's mistake and kept it til the endgame and it helped immensely.

    Thanks to Chargestone Cave you can have a Magnezone right before the gym this guy has the easiest time against and blast through it right away. He resists Drayden too but I think his Druddigon's got flamethrower so watch out there. Marlon's piss-easy too.

    Sturdy is ridiculously useful, sometimes surviving that one hit and getting off an attack or paralyzing your opponent will be crucial to winning. Sure, Steel/Electric coverage isn't the best but you can manage most of the game with Mirror Shot/Flash Cannon and Volt Switch.

    Definitely Top Tier.

    Now to review a couple of other guys I tried out:

    Snivy

    Gave this fella a go because I've never used the Snivy line in-game before. Dude is weak as hell and it sure shows. You practically need Coil to be effective. Being weak to two early Gyms really doesn't help his case either. Elesa's gym would be better if Zebstrika and Emolga didn't have moves that can hit super-effectively. Clay is manageable, although Excadrill's still neutral to your STABs so watch out there. Don't even go there with Skyla...

    For most of the game I was running Coil/Leech Seed/Leaf Blade/Return (never did find the Aerial Ace TM) and it sort of worked. Once you get off a couple of coils you can dish out some damage and tank physical stuff, but you're pretty much relying on being able to set those up or the damage output is low.

    A barren movepool, only one STAB and some quite bad weaknesses (Fire, Flying, Ice, Bug, Poison) sound bad, but being fast definitely helps Snivy's case. Outspeeding stuff usually means you can get those Coils off, especially against the random Trainers who have no idea what they're doing. Then you can start tearing shit up. Til then, you're stuck with a relatively weak starter.

    I'd be inclined to say Low-Mid since he does have a few perks, namely Leech Seed recovery, 113 speed and some bulk.

    Riolu

    Got this bad boy as the first thing I ran into at Sangi Ranch, like Magnemite he became a mainstay. Sure, he doesn't get a STAB til it's too late for Cheren's gym but once you get Force Palm things get a little easier. Happiness seems to be a lot easier to increase now too, I had a Lucario by Level 20 and it rocked.

    The one bad thing about Lucario is that he doesn't really match up well against any of the Gym Leaders at all except for Cheren. Roxie and Burgh resist him, Elesa's a bitch, Clay can take him out with Bulldoze, Skyla also resists his main STAB, Drayden's got that Flygon and his Druddigon has Revenge and finally Marlon's Jellicent hates Luke too. Yeah, not a great look. He does do well against the likes of Zinzolin, Corless and Grimsley though.

    Lucario's movepool is damn good, once you beat Clay you can have Bulldoze in there so you can actually beat Poison-types properly, there's a bunch of Move Tutors if you're willing to grind for Shards (Ice Punch and ThunderPunch can be gotten as early as Driftveil) and there's Special moves galore too. You can stick with a Swords Dance Luke like I did (you only have to wait until Level 37 for that, which is around Mistralton normally) or you can try for Calm Mind (but for that you'll have to wait til Level 47, I would say Nasty Plot as well but that requires sticking with Riolu til the late 40's).

    Gotta be careful with Lucario though, he's the ultimate glass cannon, one hit and you'll probably be KO'd. Drain Punch can help (although that comes way late in Seihaga City and requires quite a few Shards) but usually you'll wait to try and set up against something you know can't touch Luke and then proceed to plough on through.

    I'd say High-Mid taking into account the amount of Gym Leaders that he can't beat himself and overall frailty. He blasts through those ordinary Trainers though.

    Crustle (Yes, I'm being incredibly specific here for a reason)

    The Crustle you can catch in the Seaside Cave is no use against Marlon for obvious reasons, but just you watch as he ploughs through Team Plasma's Frigate all on his own (this is precisely what I ended up doing). Just one level off Shell Smash when you capture it (easily remedied with a Rare Candy) and equipped with Sturdy, you can almost guarantee a sweep. Hell, sometimes you can manage two Shell Smashes and almost everything will fall to a Rock Slide, X-Scissor or Bulldoze. Caitlin got absolutely crushed by Crustle. Oh, and so did Black Kyurem. Couldn't KO me with its Fusion Bolt, got off Shell Smash, managed survive another hit and then BAM, dead Kyurem. Didn't go nearly so well vs Ghetsis, mind.

    One thing that sucks about Crustle is his speed. 45 speed is slow. With one Shell Smash you bring that up to 90, which can put you past most of the weak stuff the Plasma Grunts bring out (and the majority of Caitlin's team) but against faster opponents you could well be setting yourself up for nothing but disappointment...

    Still, I'd say High Tier simply based on how destructive Crustle can be if used properly.

    Mandibuzz (again, that one specific one)

    Here's a version-specific one, and one that you poor saps with White 2 are missing out on. I may be biased since Mandibuzz is one of my favourite Pokemon of all time, but I was willing to bend time for this chick and things worked out perfectly.

    Mandibuzz has some seriously amazing bulk, it was taking super-effective hits and not even being 2HKO'd! Initially I used it as a Fly slave but when it got Nasty Plot, Dark Pulse and Air Slash I couldn't turn that down, especially not with the bulk to get off at least one guaranteed, if not two. Even though the special side is Mandibuzz's weaker attack-wise, after a couple of boosts not a lot can stop it.

    Matchups against Gyms aren't usually kind, Elesa outright wins, Clay's stuff all has Rock Slide, there's no way Mandibuzz can beat Skarm one-on-one, Drayden is generally evil and Marlon I suppose is neutral. At least you can take down 3 of the Elite 4 with relative ease (and a bit of help from Weak Armor in my case).

    Weak Armor may seem like the worst ability for it considering the defensive role it plays but it actually really helped. Sacrificing a bit of defense for Speed, especially after its special attack has been powered up, helped me power through both Marshal and Shauntal (I got lucky with the latter due to Drifblim deciding to use Acrobatics over any of its other moves...).

    Leaning towards Top Tier here, walls don't usually do too well in-game but this one sure as hell does. Just make sure you're around Route 4 on Thursday or willing to change the clock.

    Vanillite line

    I got lucky running around outside the Giant Chasm and found a Vanilluxe in the shaking grass, so I caught it and decided I may as well give it a try seeing as the Champion has a ton of Dragon-types. Unfortunately this thing comes WAY too late to be of much use...

    You can train Vanillish/Luxe up quite easily in Victory Road (Golurk, Tranquill and Altaria are your friends) but apart from that, there's not much Vanilluxe actually does. Theoretically it would do well against Iris but most of her stuff outspeeds you (and Hydreigon is IMMUNE TO MIRROR COAT D:). Having a moveset that's made up solely of Mirror Shot/Flash Cannon (Which I didn't get the TM of), Ice Beam/Blizzard, Hail, Mirror Coat and nothing else of note just isn't gonna cut it. Hidden Power in-game is garbage of course because you don't know what you're gonna get unless you're RNG'ing, which really defeats the purpose of 'in-game'.

    Low Tier because it comes so late and offers so little.

    Among other things I had Magby/Magmar, Onix and Pellipper in temporary spots but didn't use them enough to really offer a critique, the former two because they require trades to reach their final forms and the latter because it was purely being used as a Surf-Fly mule.
  9. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
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    I assume this will only apply for Normal Mode, right?

    Will there be any notes about Assist/Challenge Mode at least (such as Roxie having Grimer with Mud-Slap)?
  10. Stellar

    Stellar dreams and adventure
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    Due to the relative difficulty of unlocking Assist/Challenge mode, this thread will only focus on Normal mode.
  11. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Hey, I haven't played this game, so I'm not trying to dispute you. But I gotta ask...was your Snivy Special Based? I asked because I prefer using Physical-based Snivys over Special-Based Snivy. Coil is a great move for Physical Attackers, Leaf Blade is strong, Aerial Ace is mediocre but it hits other Bug/Grass types for him.
  12. Ondore

    Ondore

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    Volcarona
    Location: Relic Castle (available after 5th badge)
    + Can be soft-reset for nature and comes at L35, which is at worse right at your teams level if not a few levels higher (my team was at L31)
    - 15 catch rate is, to put it mildly, quite a pain to deal with even with Dusk Balls being available in the city prior
    + 135/100 SpA and Speed means it hits like a truck and does it quickly
    - Very limited natural movepool and can't use a lot of TMs until the endgame - adding Ember back to its moveset for a Heart Scale is actually improving its ability to damage. Can use the Signal Beam tutor if you're willing to grind Shards in the cave, but those may be needed for another team member
    + Utility enhanced by having access to Fly
    = Only really helpful in certain situations for Gyms later on (wins a damage race against Skyla's Skarmory, can fare OK against Drayden between Signal Beam and Flame Body burns, Signal Beam actually OHKOed the Starmie in Marlon's gym)

    I'm tempted to call it for Mid because unlike my other Fire type this run (Growlithe) it was actually capable of taking more than two hits without dying and the Lucky Egg made up for its slow experience growth.

    Scraggy/Scrafty - Top
    Location: Route 4 (available prior to 3rd badge)
    + Comes with Faint Attack/Headbutt, learns Brick Break and Hi Jump Kick within a few levels
    + Either no-sells status conditions (very handy in the Electric gym) or has Moxie
    + Learns all three elemental punches so can fill in any hole on the team for coverage
    + Capable of ending the Kyruem fight with a single, well placed boot to the head, and beats up Plasma quite handily between Crunch and the fighting move of choice, also beats 3/4 of the Elite 4 on its own
    - Not as fast as Volcarona and kind of frail, but should be fast enough to overcome that
  13. Avatar Korra

    Avatar Korra

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    Darmanitan for High-Top Tier

    *Darumaka is available pretty early in the game, in Route 4. (So before the third gym)

    *He's caught at a pretty high level of around 17-19

    *Comes with Fire Fang and Headbutt, decent moves, due to Hustle he usually one-two hit KO's most Pokemon.

    *Pretty much sweeps the third gym, and is very reliable for a big hitter in the later gyms, as few can resist his pure power

    *Gets Fire Punch pretty early at 22...a great attack and one you'll likely keep the whole game. It's power is increased from Sheer Force as well. You can also teach it Dig right after the third gym, a great move for more coverage.

    *Evolves at 35, which is pretty decent and Darmanitan will likely become your biggest source of pure power on your team.
  14. breh

    breh mfw lucky 'n' bad
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    Wait, what?

    Azumarill was great; are you kidding? Aqua Tail hits hard as all hell and once you evolve Azurill you're one level off from an Azumarill. It was consistently the strongest member of my team and had such perfect two-move coverage that I stuck Surf on it for most of the game. Aqua Tail / Return is just really, really good ingame. I'm not sure what you did with it, but clearly I did something different. To put it rather simply, it plays kind of like Magikarp-less DPP Gyarados with faster experience growth, roughly equivalent bulk, perfect coverage from the second you get its first evolution, and a physical STAB move at every level it exists bar 3.

    Mid tier at worst.

    [​IMG]

    I came into the game expecting something more interesting, but Koffing was, sadly, not all that I wanted it to be. Perhaps this is a result of the fact that I never taught it Will-o-wisp, but I always felt Koffing was very lacking. Unlike, for example, Magnemite, which readily earns its levels and happily gets up to 30 with no effort, Koffing has to trudge all the way to 35, when it really starts to show that it's... not the strongest mon. Sludge Bomb comes similarly late at 34; you're stuck with Sludge (which is an okay STAB move, but one on a rather weak mon) until then. Poison Gas / Venoshock sucks too. Once you get to wherever they sell Fire Blast tms (undella?), you can buy those and Weezing becomes a lot easier to play - it's not running on mono-Poison now. However, it's still pretty underwhelming ingame, even with its odd little tm movepool. It takes on Fighting-types, I guess, which is something.

    Low tier.

    [​IMG]

    Perhaps it's the absence of Liepards in each corner of Unova, but Leavanny just feels genuinely weak ingame, unlike in BW where it just beasts through most of the game. Its pre-evolved forms are not bad, but when it evolves there's a serious lack of power. I don't think I've ever had a mon faint so much ingame ever before, lol. Simply put, it doesn't stay alive for long; it seems like everything is out to kill it with some silly SE move. It soloes the whole of the Elite Four bar Marshal, though, which is pretty cool.

    Low tier.

    [​IMG]

    Man, I'm not sure how to treat this at all. If there's a game where you want to just flat out drop the starter, it's BW2. The game gives you every possible mon instead; it practically urges you to drop them. Tepig is no exception. Again, in spite of my extremely favorable run with it in BW, it was far worse in BW2. Again, just like Leavanny, it dies allllll the time. It doesn't help that its STAB moves are really lackluster; hell, even its Superpower didn't OHKO much.

    Low-Mid tier.

    Otherwise, I wholeheartedly suggest that we make a "Magnemite" tier. I don't think it's possible for something to so easily rip through ingame as it does.
  15. chicobo329

    chicobo329

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    Physical Snivy should be even better because Aqua Tail is quite a boon for it. The question is, where is the Aqua Tail tutor?
  16. Rechi

    Rechi

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    Any opinions on Growlithe yet? I'm up to Castelia so far and it's actually been pretty underwhelming so far (even in Burgh's gym!)? Does anyone think it's worth keeping it as a Growlithe until 45? And even though I'm not that far in the game yet I completely with what's been said about Magnemite, definite top tier.
  17. breh

    breh mfw lucky 'n' bad
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    The Aqua Tail tutor is in Yamaji (burnt) town.
  18. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    on the topic of shards you get a random one every time you lose in PWT so that may be a faster option of farming them

    Snivy seems to suffer from the same issue as BW1: it lags horribly midgame. your midgame offense consists of just abusing Leech Seed and Growth/Leaf Tornado and pray for results, which is frankly something you don't want to do. He doesn't kill stuff quickly enough, and battles often become a drag. Evolution to Serperior does fix that though with Coil + Leaf Blade.

    On another Pokemon now:

    N's Zorua - High Tier

    Zorua has the advantage of ridiculous EXP gain, and Illusion is handy for fucking up computer AI(oh the good ole trick of disguising yourself as Emboar and watch as the opponents' Psychic 'does not affect Emboar'). It even has 30 IVs across the board: this essentially makes Zoroark the best Pokemon you have statistically (it's very hard to top 30s across the board without being massively lucky/RNG'ing). Hasty nature is also great since Zoroark can run a mixed set. He even has max happiness iirc, so you can dump Return onto him already! Zoroark can even afford to be underlevelled for a bit since he just needs a few battles to jump back up to the top of your team's level, potentially.

    p.s. Azurill is bad. if the game hates you and procs you Thick Fat Azurill, good luck trying to make it not suck outside of HM slavery.
    p.p.s. on the topic of Serperior, my L42 one walked into the last gym and solo'd it (except for one part where it died to swagger confusion >.>). marlon included. Also LS is an excellent support move, i'm actually willing to run mono-grass coil/leaf blade/giga drain/leech seed because leech seed is great for support
  19. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Azurill is bad and for that part alone I would say eh, not worth it compared to what else you could get later on. But, Azumarill is not that bad, assuming you got Huge Power. Aqua Tail/Dig/Double-Edge did some work, especially early (I beat the electric gym using Dig), and fast growth has made it so I didn't have to baby it too much.

    Growlithe is sort of disappointing and I'd imagine Darumaka is the better bet in this game still... but hang in there, Arcanine isn't too bad. The worst part is the levels between Fire Fang and Flamethrower since its attacks just aren't quite powerful enough to one shot opponents but they can sometimes ohko you in return. (I think you can also get the Fire Blast TM in that range but I believe I missed it). Flamethrower/Crunch/Outrage/Flare Blitz is a pretty decent natural set once you're fully evolved. I haven't made it there yet but I'm assuming Outrage will be great in the dragon gym.
  20. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Yes, I did. I want to use CM on it later. That's why I'm unsure if it belongs in Low or Mid Tier. Physical has some good moves, but it doesn't really change how weak it really is, and being weak to early gyms and then Skyla, and to some extent Drayden, is not particularly good. Also, physical Serperior has a much harder time against Drayden, unless I'm completely wrong. Maybe if you use Dragon Tail, but that seems like a stretch. There is Outrage though. In any case, it's not high or top tier at least.

    EDIT:
    And Stellar, Braviary still appears on Mondays. Mandibuzz Thurdsdays, Braviary Mondays. Unless the internet is lying to me.
  21. breh

    breh mfw lucky 'n' bad
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    This isn't a nuzlocke run lol; "hunt" for huge power. It's not hard to get in the least.

    Again, I can't understand why everybody else had such a terrible experience with Azurill. It is, flat out, THE strongest (strongest in the sense of force, not bulk) Pokemon in the game, no exceptions. You get it early, meaning it's loaded with EVs; feed it a Protein now and then and it'll do very well.
  22. Gokuzbu

    Gokuzbu

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    Is Lillipup still good in this game? In BW1 it was excellent
  23. Count Serperior

    Count Serperior

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    Lillipup ain't so bad early on from what I can tell.
    I didn't use it much though since I thought the other 2 canines where cooler :p
    (Riolu & Growlithe)

    I will tell you this: do NOT underestimate Cheren and his Lillipup -.-
    When I do my english run of the game I'm not even gonna try to battle him till I get Force Palm on my Riolu.
  24. SunshineCat

    SunshineCat

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    @Gazooki Do you really think Mandibuzz is that good? Sorry to be doubtful, but I just can't see it doing much damage with 55 base Special Attack. That's around what most pre-evolved Pokemon have to work with. I mean sure, Nasty Plot. But having to set up every battle...

    Also, any opinions on Mienfoo/shao? You get it after the 6th gym, but it gets Drain Punch and U-turn by level up, and can learn Acrobatics.
  25. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    @breh: i am not interested in working with 50/50 offenses, period. Neither am I interested in catching like a bunch of azurills just to get one with Huge Power when I can just grab Mareep/Riolu and call it a day (they are also arguably more useful than Azurill, the former especially because of instant TWave)

    @Gokuzbu: Lillipup is still decent but he doesn't destroy earlygame that easily anymore

    @Count Serperior: try counter riolu lol it works
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