Cacturne (QC 3/3)

breh

強いだね
[Overview]
-hits really hard with sucker punch, which is one of the strongest priorities in the tier
-is one of many good spikers
-great setup move in swords dance
-typing allows it to take on exeggutor, at least in part
-slow and not extremely bulky; runs out of moveslots too quickly

[SET]
name: Offensive Spiker
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Seed Bomb
move 4: Substitute / Swords Dance
item: Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Nature: Adamant
evs: 200 HP / 28 Def / 252 Atk / 28 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
-spikes is the most prominent entry hazard in NU; it is very easy to use and spinners largely suck
-sucker punch hurts, even when unboosted by swords dance, and can 2HKO a lot of frail things
-Seed Bomb is reliable STAB
-Substitute eases Cacturne's prediction while Swords Dance boosts its attack to very high levels

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
-EVs and nature maximize attack and then maximize bulk
-Leftovers gives Cacturne survivability and its recovery can add up quite quickly
-Drain Punch can be used, but requires Sand Veil
-Leech Seed can go in the last slot to annoy
-good to team with misdreavus, which never dies and spinblocks foreeeever

[Other Options]
-Life Orb is a great item on any poke with good attack and Cacturne is no exception; while it can lose health rather quickly, it becomes a monster with a swords dance boost; two means it pretty much sweeps everything it touches
-Band and specs; it's going to be setting up spikes anyway. Band seems to be the most viable, but banded sucker punch is a terrible thing in its own right. The former would run something like Spikes/Switcheroo/Sucker Punch/Drain Punch and the latter would run something like Spikes / Switcheroo / Giga Drain / Dark Pulse; both cannot run water absorb.
-Destiny Bond?
-Nasty Plot can be used but it's ballsy since cacturne is slow
-Toxic is a crutch that pokemon rely on to beat other pokemon they cannot
-Encore is cool and allows for more setup opportunities, but cacturne is targeted more often by attacks than anything
-Subpunch is neat but cacturne lacks the bulk to pull it off.

[Checks and Counters]
-A lot of things can outspeed and OHKO it; the most troubling of these are pokemon that are either able to ignore sucker punch or take little damage from it
-Quiver Dance users, especially Masquerain and Butterfree, fall into the former category; Cacturne cannot do anything to them.
-Sawk is able to outspeed and OHKO unless it is at very low health or Cacturne has obtained many, many swords dances. throh laughs at cacturne's pitiful attempts at damage and circle throws it out. Klinklang hurts Cacturne badly but does not OHKO from full health; it must be wary of swords dance boosted Drain Punch.
-Many pokemon are able to outspeed and OHKO, but become shakier and shakier checks the more hazards there are on the field; most hail abusers, braviary, magmortar and others have no difficulties with cacturne at full health but lose to sucker punch when they have taken enough damage.
-nothing is really able to stop it from getting up spikes when you do not want them; because spinners in NU are poor, its spikes generally go unspun or are spun at the cost of a great deal of health.
 

Endorfins

Your Worst Nightmare
is a Contributor Alumnus
mach punch deserves a mention in checks and counters
indeed most priority that is unresisted can severly damage if not ko cacturne
 

breh

強いだね
the only user of mach punch is gurrdurr, which does indeed force cacturne out I guess but is not incredibly threatening as a pokemon in the first place IMO.

in general, there is not too much priority in NU; aside from other sucker punches as well as random quick attacks, NU is pretty lacking of priority.
 

tennisace

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SubPunch and Encore should both be OO. On the first set, move Drain Punch/Sand Veil to AC, Seed Bomb is more useful generally since you can come in on Water-types and actually kill them if they get ballsy. Plus Water Absorb is that good imo. Not really sure whats going on with the EVs, I know I've done calcs to show that 252 HP is basically just as good.
 

Ice-eyes

Simper Fi
I'd like to see mention of Life Orb somewhere. Cacturne isn't just a Spiker - it does that job pretty terribly next to the likes of Roselia - it hits bloody hard after a Swords Dance (4 HP Sawk, for example, takes 74% - 87.3% from +2 LO Sucker Punch, and Klinklang is 2HKOd after Rocks). You can play it like an Absol with the ability to switch in on stuff. Not sure if it warrants its own set though.
 

breh

強いだね
Subpunch/encore: I added them this morning
Drain Punch: moved
EVs: but they make me feel so much more secure! (the sum defensive score is marginally higher I guess)
Life Orb: added to OO, not sure if it warrants AC but I'm willing to change that.
 

tennisace

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If you feel that strongly about the EVs I won't argue, I think yours is slightly more physically bulky than 252 hp but slightly less specially bulky? or vice versa I don't remember which.
 

Molk

Godlike Usmash
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imo a more offensive ev spread should be mentioned, cacturne is frail as hell anyway, what exactly does the bulky spread do for it.?

it also allows cacturne to actually outspeed stuff such as bulky waters.
 

breh

強いだね
200/28/28 is less bulky than 252/4 in the defense the 4 is put in and more bulky in the one it's not.

I feel like an SD set would be more or less the same as this set but with another move over spikes and (obviously) no sub slash. is it too similar?

thanks for the qc check tennisace!
 

Ice-eyes

Simper Fi
SD is probably too similar for a dedicated set, probably too similar, but it wants AC.

imo a more offensive ev spread should be mentioned, cacturne is frail as hell anyway, what exactly does the bulky spread do for it.?

it also allows cacturne to actually outspeed stuff such as bulky waters.
Cacturne is actually decently bulky with max HP and it doesn't really need any extra Speed.

Overall, pretty much shipshape.

 
For Focus Punch & Drain Punch, those are illegal with Water Absorb so I wouldn't bother with em as the ability to set up on mono-attacking Bulky Waters seem a lot more appealing when Spiking than SubPunching/Drain Punching is.
 
@ice-eyes, How are they similar? One sets up spikes to support the team while one boost it's attack. I don't see how you can do both and their should be a sword dance set.
 

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