Metagame Camomons

I mean, there's a list.

Fire/Electric Victini, where all you do is click dual STAB or U-Turn until everything dies;
Grass/Fire Heatran with STAB Magma Storm and then Z-Solar Beam to nuke Waters;
Ground/Steel Golem-Alola with Magnet Pull to meme on nearly every Steel type;
Poison/Dark Conkeldurr where most people won't realize what coverage move you run until you Ice Punch their Landorus with Ground/Fighting in the face;
Fire/Ground mixed fat Guzzlord;
Fighting/Flying Landorus-Therian with Z-Fly for memes;
And Fire/Grass Volcarona, by far my favorite typing on one of my favorite Pokemon.
 
Electric/Fire Azelf is Rotom-H on steroids, and doesn't cripple itself using one of its STABs. You could also run it with Nasty Plot and break the ever-loving shit out of pretty much everything except Chansey.
Water/Ground Haxorus AND Mega Gyarados are brutal sweepers with Mold Breaker to stuff defensive abilities, including all of Cress' many defensive typings.
Dark/Fighting (or possibly Ground, never tried it) Mega Beedrill is an incredible momentum-grabber with a very very fast and very very powerful Knock Off. Run it with Pursuit to make Normal/Ghosts cry.

I don't remember the exact typings it used (I think mostly Fairy/Electric and Fairy/Poison), but Cresselia was a NASTY wall. I started running Haxorus and Gyarados specifically to deal with it.

Really, any Pokemon that struggled with poor STAB combination but carries high power moves in other types will succeed here. Grass/Fighting Kartana is another one that I think was theorized but I don't remember if it saw a ton of usage.
 

Chloe

i'm such a weeb ;w;
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Now to explain why this wasn't available for OMotM Voting this month.

I'm happy to announce that Camomons has been upgraded to rotational status :D! This means that Camomons will be rotating with STABmons on the main server, being available to ladder every other month.

Just like with STABmons, Camomons will be promoted to permanent ladder status if it has consistently good activity, while poor activity will boot it off the main server. I'm confident that you, the Camomons community will be able to make the most of this opportunity and develop it into the best metagame it can be!
 
neat

1) Chansey could probably stand to resist Psychic, what with special attackers having access to Psyshock and whatnot. While you're at it, if you expect Keldeo to be a thing, resisting Fighting is good too. Psywave over Seismic Toss comes to mind (especially with Ghost being so splashable), for its secondary typing you pretty much get Thunder Wave and that's it, but Electric is a good defensive typing cuz it's a good offensive type and it resists itself.

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: You know the drill
Bold Nature
- Psywave
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock

2) While we're on the topic of Soft-Boiled users -- where's the love for Fire/Fairy Clefable? It's a phenomenal typing with easily shored-up weaknesses, and honestly Clefable beats half the shit in the extant sample teams (esp. Dark/Fairy Mega Mawile).

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind

3) Grass/Steel Heatran seems like a meme. One of its STABs can only be efficiently used once, and the other is 80BP. It's a trapper that no Grass-weak opponent would ever dream of switching into, as opposed to Heatran in standard, which can lure in Water- and Ground-types by dint of, you know, otherwise being weak to them. It can't access that typing AND run Magma Storm for trapping AND run more than one utility move and honestly that's a waste of potential. The only place I can see this make sense would be on some sort of sun team where it can quasi-reliably use Solar Beam as a powerful STAB and function as an offensive mon.

4) Speaking of...

Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Will-o-Wisp

Heatran @ Life Orb / Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Solar Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Fire Blast / Magma Storm
- Earth Power

And, to shore up the ironically glaring Grass/Steeltran weakness a little...

Shiftry @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Brick Break
- Shadow Ball
- Knock Off
- Growth

Don't let the low-BP STABs fool you, Shiftry will get the job done with its perfect coverage. Unless you're facing priority. Then it won't. Or a really sturdy physical wall that's neutral to its moves. Then it might have some trouble.

4 SpA Life Orb Fighting/Ghost Shiftry Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ghost/Steel Avalugg: 234-276 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (75% to OHKO physdef)
252+ Atk Life Orb Fighting/Ghost Shiftry Brick Break vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 281-330 (72.9 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (12.5% to OHKO offensive)
252+ Atk Life Orb Fighting/Ghost Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Psychic/Electric Eviolite Chansey: 335-395 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
 
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Great that this meta's getting a rotational ladder, when's that starting by the way? Some sets I thought of:


Kartana @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance
- Night Slash

Standard SD Kartana, now with more powerful STABs! Return smashes anything not resisting it at +2, Sacred Sword is a secondary STAB that hits the Rock and Steel-types that resist Return; Night Slash hits the Ghost types immune to your STABs. With Darkinium Z you can OHKO Steel / Ghost Avalugg most of the time. Normal / Fighting / Dark has perfect neutral coverage, combined with Beast Boost and 181 base Attack, almost nothing can switch into this monster.

+2 252 Atk Kartana Black Hole Eclipse (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (Steel / Ghost) Avalugg: 362-426 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock



Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Curse
- Taunt
- Sticky Web
- Magic Coat / Skill Swap / Spore / Stealth Rock

It can set up Sticky Web and spinblock. Curse gives Smeargle Ghost typing, and also lets you KO yourself when you've done what you need to do. It can also force switches, giving a sweeper time to set up. Taunt prevents Defog and lends Dark typing, making you immune to Prankster moves. Sticky Web is the crux of this set, helping slower Pokemon. Magic Coat reflects back Taunt; Skill Swap neutralises Magic Bounce; Spore puts one Pokemon out of comission; Stealth Rock is another hazard.


Hoopa-U @ Choice Band
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Trick

Dark / Fighting is far superior than Dark / Psychic. Hyperspace Fury is your main STAB, 2HKOing pretty much anything not resisting it. Drain Punch is a secondary STAB that recovers HP. Gunk Shot wrecks the Fairy types that resist your STABs. Trick cripples walls like Cresselia.


Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Blast
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Seed / Knock Off

Basically it's a slower, bulkier and much more powerful Terrakion. Thanks to Skill Link, Rock Blast is basically a 125 BP STAB with no drawbacks other than slightly imperfect accuracy. Close Combat is the secondary STAB, wrecking the Steel-types that resist Rock Blast. Bullet Seed wrecks bulky Water types while Knock Off hits Ghost types.
 
Any thoughts on this? I've been thinking 'bout replacing Snorlax but i dunno with who



Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin



Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Glare
- Substitute



Snorlax @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Recycle
- Return
- Substitute



Pidgeot-Mega @ Pidgeotite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- U-turn
- Roost



Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Coil
- Substitute



Omastar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Shell Smash
- Ice Beam
 
Can we please suspect or quickban Kartana? It is litterally un-wallable, kills stuff like defensive steel/Flying Kyurem-Black after one Swords Dance, has a chance to OHKO an unaware Fairy/Steel Clefable and Ground/Water Avalugg has no chance either due to Leaf Blade. Because it has now STAB Secret Sword, it can afford to run even Substitute to block status and make revengig it even more difficult.
 
Wow this meta is back. Nice. This meta is a very fun Some things I need to address based

1. Kyurem-Black is the one we should look at first. This mon is the definition of a "Pdon" syndrome. It benefits ALL playstyles, from Stall, offense and balance and it's VERY splashable in every team. The Steel/Flying variant walls a LOT of things in the meta while hitting back hard, while the Dragon/Electric or Ice/Electric (underrated imo) variant destroys nearly everything. When ppl say "this mon is a Zekrom 2.0" they're not joking. I believe this mon should be looked at first.

2. Cresselia. This cancer. This thing walls WAY too much. Poison/Fairy or Elec/Fairy, combined with Levitate, makes this mon basically REALLY REALLY HARD to break. Poison/Fairy in this case also immune to Poison and the Elec/Fairy variant wins 1v1 vs ALL kinds of Mega Mawile, which is supposed to be the wallbreaker. It also wins 1v1 vs most Kartana variants, some Kyurem-Black variant and basically nearly everything without DD/SD + Moldy Earthquake, which makes me resort to crap like LO Haxorus who got 2HKO'd by STAB Moonblast. It's ridiculous. Not to mention it also have Calm Mind. Please, PLEASE, look at this cancer.

3. Idk tbh. Those two are the only mons who stand out over the rest. Yes, Kartana is threatening but it's frail, very killable, and is walled by Poison/Ground Avalugg (which I think the best Avalugg typing Defensively). Avalugg itself is also good at walling, but not threatening enough to be banworthy imo. Then there's STAB Boltbeam Porygon-Z which can be walled by Unawaremons and Mega Mawile which breaks nearly everything except Cresselia and have a very strong Sucker Punch.

Tldr, please look at Kyub and Cress.
 
People always forget about Normal / Fighting Kartana, which in my experience is better than the Grass / Fighting variety. Return gives it a strong STAB with no drawbacks, and between Sacred Sword and Night Slash it has perfect natural coverage. You can run Darkinium Z to break through Steel / Ghost Avalugg.
 
Wow this meta is back. Nice. This meta is a very fun Some things I need to address based

1. Kyurem-Black is the one we should look at first. This mon is the definition of a "Pdon" syndrome. It benefits ALL playstyles, from Stall, offense and balance and it's VERY splashable in every team. The Steel/Flying variant walls a LOT of things in the meta while hitting back hard, while the Dragon/Electric or Ice/Electric (underrated imo) variant destroys nearly everything. When ppl say "this mon is a Zekrom 2.0" they're not joking. I believe this mon should be looked at first.

2. Cresselia. This cancer. This thing walls WAY too much. Poison/Fairy or Elec/Fairy, combined with Levitate, makes this mon basically REALLY REALLY HARD to break. Poison/Fairy in this case also immune to Poison and the Elec/Fairy variant wins 1v1 vs ALL kinds of Mega Mawile, which is supposed to be the wallbreaker. It also wins 1v1 vs most Kartana variants, some Kyurem-Black variant and basically nearly everything without DD/SD + Moldy Earthquake, which makes me resort to crap like LO Haxorus who got 2HKO'd by STAB Moonblast. It's ridiculous. Not to mention it also have Calm Mind. Please, PLEASE, look at this cancer.

3. Idk tbh. Those two are the only mons who stand out over the rest. Yes, Kartana is threatening but it's frail, very killable, and is walled by Poison/Ground Avalugg (which I think the best Avalugg typing Defensively). Avalugg itself is also good at walling, but not threatening enough to be banworthy imo. Then there's STAB Boltbeam Porygon-Z which can be walled by Unawaremons and Mega Mawile which breaks nearly everything except Cresselia and have a very strong Sucker Punch.

Tldr, please look at Kyub and Cress.
Agreed entirely. Kyurem-Black is comparable to Zekrom in far too many ways, in fact, I'd argue for a good case of Zekrom being inferior, including...

- Lack of Ice Beam, one of the best coverage moves for all of the Flying and Ground-types flowing around,
- Lack of the useful Iron Head for Iron Head/Roost (with Zekrom having to use Flash Cannon. Yeah.)
- Lower speed (Kyurem's tying with a major threat in Tapu Lele, while Zekrom's lags behind by 5 points)
- And arguably better stats past Speed, with 125 HP making it take special hits better but being a bit weaker on the physical side, and an even higher base Attack.

Zekrom's main thing that makes him nicer is Bolt Strike over Fusion Bolt, and even then, it's a slight base power increase at the cost of several downsides. Ridiculous lmao


And for Cress, I hate it, and I'd be happy to see it gone. I've just relied on Dnite to break through it with DD + Roosting enough to be able to 2hko it, which comes past +4 which is incredibly tedious.


But here's a nicer thing to speak of.



Golem-Alola @ Choice Band
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball
- Wild Charge
- Explosion


Don't expect to win with Golem-Alola, but he's pretty stupid fun. Earthquake and Gyro Ball lets him check a few Pokemon, like non-Magma Storm or Lava Plume variants of Heatran, Kyurem-Black lacking Earth Power, Dark/Poison Pokemon like Tangrowth and Necrozma, and in general manhandling any Steel types that don't carry damage that can nuke Golem off the face of the earth. Magnet Pull can meme on threats like Kyurem-Black, Tyranitar not running Earthquake on a Steel-type set, Heatran, other Golem (lol), Celesteela, and nearly any other Steel-typed Camomon. Wild Charge allows it to hit Kyurem-Black, which runs Roost and Iron Head most frequently, while Earthquake can deal with basically every other Steel-type. Kyurem-Black variants that are STAB on Ice Beam are annoyed at the lack of Ice weakness, did not appreciate Gyro Balls to the face. Basically a full-on meme and I'm proud of using it.

252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Golem-Alola: 257-304 (70.6 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (STAB Ice Beam off max SPA LO)
4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Golem-Alola: 108-128 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- 18.2% chance to 3HKO (Steel/Flying variant with Leftovers.)
 
Firstly, since we're here to stay for good now I'd like to remind everyone that I'm always happy to accept any sample teams people have, though this time I expect a bit of quality. Make sure that your teams are polished and as good as you can make them before submitting.

Secondly, concerning the powerful Pokemon. Some of us have realised that Kyurem-B and Kartana are amongst the best Pokemon in the metagame at the moment, and you'd be right. If (yes, that's an if) I were to take action and suspect something it'd be Kartana. Being extremely hard / impossible to check defensively coupled with a great speed tier makes it very strong overall. I've been using the set CrystalFalchion posted above recently, paired with a Magnezone to take out Kyurem-B, Steel-type Clefables and a few other things and it's been doing great.

But enough about that. The focus of this post is to let everyone know that I'd like to begin discussion on viability rankings. As you may have noticed we don't have one yet, but that's about to change. As a starting point, how's this:

S Rank

Kartana [
/
]

Kyurem-B [
/
] [
/
]

Mega Mawile [
/
]


I was considering Cresselia for a little bit but its extreme passiveness makes it quite poor / useless against bulky cores or stall teams. For instance it struggles to do much of anything against the likes of Chansey and Toxapex and its Moonlight PP can be stalled out quite easily. Anyway, since our ladder will be swapped at the end of the month please use the time we have currently to play the format and offer your insight. Please note that as of now only the S and A tiers will be discussed so please do not get side-tracked and discuss stuff like Chesnaught or whatever.
 
Cresselia is way too easy to play around for an S-rank mon. It does like... one and a half things (fuckoff fat wall with Toxic, fuckoff fat wall with Calm Mind), and it just gives up so many free turns in the process. Hit it with a strong neutral attacker that isn't OHKOed back, or make any half-decent effort to stallbreak, and you'll be fine. I can't honestly even see it in A. A- maybe.

Zygarde should be... well, as high as you're willing to put it. A+ at a minimum. [
/
] [
/
]
, the former switches in so easily on so many threats to set up Dragon Dances, while the latter is a pretty good revenge killer with Band. Every single game I've used Zygarde in, it's performed admirably; every time my opponent has used Zygarde, it's put in work too (except when I was running a fat Grass-type cuz nobody's running Z-moves???).

Latios can sit comfortably in A, if only for its versatility. Its special movepool is wide-ranging enough (Surf, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Psychic, Draco Meteor, Shadow Ball, Energy Ball) that you can usually cater it to fit to your team. It can run the same sorts of sets it does in standard, except with whatever typing is convenient for you. It's splashable, powerful, fast, and has good utility. It's not quite overwhelming enough to be a top-tier threat, though.

Not a viability ranking thing but why isn't anybody using Mega Aerodactyl??? I think most people just kinda forgot about it cuz it didn't have any good STABs to use with its shitty offensive typing but now it has stuff like Crunch/Pursuit, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Double-Edge, Earthquake, Dragon Claw, Fire/Ice/Thunder Fang. There's no way in hell that your opponent can tell from team preview what types it might be using, and with its 80/85/95 bulk + Roost it can actually be an offensive switch-in to things. Also let's not forget it's the fastest thing alive outside of Scarf users.
 
Zygarde can be walled pretty essily with fat grasses or bug/water toxapex. Oh and Avalagg walls it too, but that walls every physical attacker except Kartana with Leaf Blade.
 
Never seen Bug/Water Toxapex but I suppose that would work, unless they're running a Substitute set with EVs to take the Scald behind a sub. Also has to watch out for Toxic (in theory, I haven't used Toxic Zygarde), which is what you would run if you're worried about fat shit like that. Fat grasses are susceptible to Corkscrew Crash from the Steel/Ground set, and also Toxic if they're susceptible to that. Every time I've faced up against an Avalugg, I've broken through it with Steel/Ground -- can't speak for Normal/Ground.

Hell, the fact that Zygarde's existence is pushing people towards running defensive Grass- and Bug-types really does say something about its viability.

But all that aside, the mere existence of counters to a mon really doesn't mean anything in this meta. You can whip up a wall with whatever typing you deem necessary for the task at hand. Come up with a mon for which "can be walled pretty easily by fat _____ types or [insert obscure typing] [insert wall]" doesn't apply. I'll wait.
 
Nominating a few mons for A. Mega Beedrill (Fighting/Dark), Haxorus (Water/Ground), and Azelf (Electric/Fire, Dark/Normal).

Mega Beedrill has one of the nastiest Knock Offs in the game (maybe THE nastiest, it's not much weaker than Mawile's and much much much faster) and can actually live a +2 Sucker Punch almost guaranteed after rocks (6.3% chance to OHKO) while maintaining bonkers coverage with good power to boot. You also remove Beedrill's Rock's weakness, just for the cherry on top.

I'm putting Haxorus here instead of Gyarados (though Gyarados deserves mention for its much superior bulk, especially if you Mega on an Intimidate) mostly because access to Poison Jab lets it get past Grass-types MUCH easier. Admittedly, Grass/Steel Heatran has been popular, but that's why Groundium Z exists, or any other Z Stone or a Life Orb or Lum Berry. I haven't tried Swords Dance yet. Oh yeah, and I'm nomming these DDers because they have Mold Breaker, letting them get past really obnoxious Defensive combinations that rely on an Ability to facilitate.

If you don't bring Chansey to a stall game and you run into Electric/Fire NP Azelf I think you just lose. It hits so hard with such wide coverage (with Levitate negating a 4x weakness) that it's been my MVP more than any other Pokemon so far. I mean, only 3 days in, but it shreds stall. Dark/Normal is just its basic suicide lead (Knock Off, Explosion, Rocks, Taunt) but trading its typing around to give it STAB on its Attacks, with bonus Prankster and Shadow Sneak immunity thrown in. This nomination is primarily for the NP 3 Attacks set.
 
I someone use this and it dealt with my normal/ground zygarde and as well helps deal with other water/ground types

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 hp
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
- Recover

celebi is nice for dealing with the aforementioned threats and as well grass/ghost is nice defensive typing especially in this meta with so many ground, eletric and water type stab mons running around. Being toxiced by things like latias or cresselia also doesnt hamper it as much due to nautural cure. Ghost is also a very nice immunity to have for switching into the many fighting /normal type mons in the tier. I have already used it to success in dealing with haxorus and gyarados who commonly use water /ground stabs and though they can run moves that can help them deal with it , they often wont do enough before celebi giga drains them for an ohko. (The teambuilder reccomended a 36 evs in speed but im not sure what that was suppose to speed creep for though not sure if it may still be necessary in camo)
 
Firstly, since we're here to stay for good now I'd like to remind everyone that I'm always happy to accept any sample teams people have, though this time I expect a bit of quality. Make sure that your teams are polished and as good as you can make them before submitting.

Secondly, concerning the powerful Pokemon. Some of us have realised that Kyurem-B and Kartana are amongst the best Pokemon in the metagame at the moment, and you'd be right. If (yes, that's an if) I were to take action and suspect something it'd be Kartana. Being extremely hard / impossible to check defensively coupled with a great speed tier makes it very strong overall. I've been using the set CrystalFalchion posted above recently, paired with a Magnezone to take out Kyurem-B, Steel-type Clefables and a few other things and it's been doing great.

But enough about that. The focus of this post is to let everyone know that I'd like to begin discussion on viability rankings. As you may have noticed we don't have one yet, but that's about to change. As a starting point, how's this:

S Rank

Kartana [
/
]

Kyurem-B [
/
] [
/
]

Mega Mawile [
/
]


I was considering Cresselia for a little bit but its extreme passiveness makes it quite poor / useless against bulky cores or stall teams. For instance it struggles to do much of anything against the likes of Chansey and Toxapex and its Moonlight PP can be stalled out quite easily. Anyway, since our ladder will be swapped at the end of the month please use the time we have currently to play the format and offer your insight. Please note that as of now only the S and A tiers will be discussed so please do not get side-tracked and discuss stuff like Chesnaught or whatever.
Porygon Z to A or A+ m8.
PZ is just so easy to use. Adaptibility BoltBeam + Agility is so good. It's speed becomes great, and it's already amazing Sp.atk becomes infinitely more useful with the addition of stab boltbeam. I've seen other sets such as Z conversion that I feel could be seen as viable but I don't think they're as viable as adaptability bolt beam. Legit just uses so many mons as set up bait and pretty much forces you to sack a mon in order to beat it. Just looking at S rank I can see that cube drops to it with either thunderbolt or ice beam, depending on cube's set, Kartana would die to thunderbolt tbh, and mawile takes like 84% minimum from a t bolt or ice beam with 40 HP ( 87.9 without investment), for these reasons I see Pz as a pretty great mon and I feel like it deserves this rank.
Edit: Actually I think I did the calc wrong last time on Mawile lol, I was using 252 Sp.atk instead of 252+. Doesn't change much, but I do believe it does guarantee a kill after SR damage. I also use LO, which does around 120%. SO it does OHKO it I believe.
 
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I noticed no one has made a trick room team for Camomons. If anyone got any ideas for a team, can you please post it. I want to see someone make a good Camomons trick room team. Another thing please no mawile its broken and it would probably kill everything with a +2 knock off.
 
Cryogonal @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Cryogonal is actually pretty good special defensively, only problem with this other then its pitiful defense is the fact that this set is stupidly passive and is support only

Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off

This thing is stupidly bulky physically how ever its poor special defense kind of hurts it, but that can be patched up easy


Volcanion @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave/Hp Grass
- Steam Eruption/Substitute

This thing can hit kind of hard and being immune to its 4x weakness helps a lot
(thank you akumeoy)
 
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Cryogonal @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Cryogonal is actually pretty good special defensively, only problem with this other then its pitiful defense is the fact that this set is stupidly passive and is support only

Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off

This thing is stupidly bulky physically how ever its poor special defense kind of hurts it, but that can be patched up easy


Volcanion @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Steam Eruption

This thing can hit kind of hard and being immune to its 4x weakness helps a lot
I've found that Volcanion's better off with 3 Attacks + Substitute -- if you wanna use it to pivot into stuff using its great resistances, Leftovers can really alleviate the hazard and chip pressure from that. It also forces a lot of switches, so Substitute is great for taking advantage of that, as well as scouting for checks in a meta where you can't really do that from team preview. You're kind of forced to run Flamethrower if you're playing it for longevity, but that's not really a big loss.

I also like HP Grass in the third slot to troll Water/Grounds that feel safe coming in on it.
 
I created this team literally to counter hyper offense. By accident I ended up making a team to also stop flying/levitate users from avoiding webs.

Shuckle - poison/bug
diancie - ground/fairy
heatran - grass/steel
Tapu bulu - grass/fighting
salamence - water/ground
greninja(b.d) - water/ice
shuckle is a bug/poison type to resist fighting,grass,and bug by 4x. Other than those resist shuckle is usually your lead setting hazards ,but to also stop set up with encore. This will allow any of your other mons to come in for free, or set up if they stay in with encore up.

Diancie is lead to counter h.o that try's to set up any hazards. Expect when the opposing mon is wall breaker ex.water/ground garchomp. Diancie is not on the team for resist ,but for its offense presence after webs are up. Most mons in camo rely on levitate or flying typing to counter their ground type weakness. With diancie you can pull down to the ground with gravity and now your instantly super effective against most teams. If you're wondering why hp grass its just for every water ground type you see in camo.

Heatran is mainly to stop fire types attacks and mons that can defog your hazards away. Heatran is literally your partner for shuckle and Tapu bulu. They we soak each weakness up while providing support in their own way. Anyways taunt is obviously to stop setup ,harzards, relentless status spam, and what ever else you can think of. Magma storm to trap any mon so you don't waste your power herb. Magma storm is also good after you get a flash fire boost and do damage over time.

Tapu Bulu helps the team with breaking through stall that doesn't rely on poison types. Tapu bulu also helps breaks through steel types. Usually bulu will switch in to scare a mon then switch out, to give grassy terrain to the team.
Bulu works well with heatran since it can soak up any random psyhic attacks.

Salamence/greninja(b.d)
Tbh they are just fillers. Mence can be a great sweeper with Z aqua tail and getting a moxie boost. When greninja often picks off anything that's low. While keeping priority water shuriken to stop any random scarf mons /+2 speed mons. If you can find a better two filler quote me so I can see it.


Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Moonblast
- Gravity
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Encore

Tapu Bulu @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Bulk Up
- Substitute

Heatran @ Power Herb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 140 HP / 252 SpA / 116 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Magma Storm
- Taunt

Salamence @ Waterium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Tail
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Fang

Greninja-Ash @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Water Shuriken
- Grass Knot
 
Last edited:
So, over the course of the last couple days myself and Funbot28 have created a preliminary VR. Since USUM came out today however, keep in mind that this might be subject to change quite drastically in the very near future. The Pokemon are ordered within their individual ranks alphabetically. If you have any comments feel free to post them below.

Link: Viability Rankings
S Rank

Kartana [
/
] [
/
]
Kyurem-B [
/
] [
/
]
Mega Mawile [
/
]

A+ Rank

Clefable [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Heatran [
/
] [
/
]
Porygon-Z [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Zygarde [
/
] [
/
]

A Rank

Azelf [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Cresselia [
/
] [
/
]
Dragonite [
/
] [
/
]
Greninja-Ash [
/
] [
/
]
Mega Gyarados [
/
]
Haxorus [
/
] [
/
]
Latios [
/
]
Mew [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Tapu Lele [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]

A- Rank

Mega Beedrill [
/
] [
/
]
Chansey [
/
] [
/
] [
]
Magearna [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Manaphy [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Mega Scizor [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Tapu Koko [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Toxapex [
/
]
Volcarona [
/
] [
/
]
 
So, over the course of the last couple days myself and Funbot28 have created a preliminary VR. Since USUM came out today however, keep in mind that this might be subject to change quite drastically in the very near future. The Pokemon are ordered within their individual ranks alphabetically. If you have any comments feel free to post them below.

Link: Viability Rankings
S Rank

Kartana [
/
] [
/
]
Kyurem-B [
/
] [
/
]
Mega Mawile [
/
]

A+ Rank

Clefable [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Heatran [
/
] [
/
]
Porygon-Z [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Zygarde [
/
] [
/
]

A Rank

Azelf [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Cresselia [
/
] [
/
]
Dragonite [
/
] [
/
]
Greninja-Ash [
/
] [
/
]
Mega Gyarados [
/
]
Haxorus [
/
] [
/
]
Latios [
/
]
Mew [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Tapu Lele [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]

A- Rank

Mega Beedrill [
/
] [
/
]
Chansey [
/
] [
/
] [
]
Magearna [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Manaphy [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Mega Scizor [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Tapu Koko [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Toxapex [
/
]
Volcarona [
/
] [
/
]
I for one would like yo make a comment on the lack of latias which often carries the type of water/electric or poison/electric and is an excellent defog pokemon in this meta, its bulk is useful and is almost as annoying as cresselia to take down. I make this comment especially with the fact that some such as koko and mscizor aren't even as common on the ladder as it. I wouldn't place it at A rank but I believe it should at least have a spot as B or B+ in viability
 
Good setup on the VR there SW.

Happy to see that Bug/Steel Heatran isn't on there. It's terrible and I still see people occasionally use it, and I still don't understand why. Sure, no weaknesses, but you're sacrificing one of your moveslots for it.

No Normal/Ground Dragonite? It functions as Zygarde, but instead of Tarrows, runs Roost and Multiscale in order to tank hits quite a bit better.

I feel like Toxapex runs a different typing as well as its standard, and if I could remember it I'd say it here. Maybe it was Bug or something?



Past that, much more minor things:
- No Fairy/Electric or Poison/Electric Cress seems weird.
- Same for standard typing Mawile (actually can hit Fairy types, and almost everyone expects the standard Fairy/Dark.)
- I feel a list of other alternate, but more rarely seen, types could be listed. For example, you could have the current Beedrill slate there, but have off to the side [Alt:
] or whatever would fit there. Especially could be noteworthy for things like Kyurem and Dragonite.


could be wrong massively since I've really stopped playing this meta since Kyurem/Kartana are still here, but hey, figured I'd chime in.