CAP 10 CAP 10 - Main Typing Poll

[Umbreon Dan]

Select one typing for CAP 10 out of Steel, Water, Fighting, or Electric.

Name: Utility Counter
General Description: This Pokemon is capable of being customized to counter virtually any specific Pokemon, but is incapable of countering a large number of Pokemon at the same time.
Justification: It is not unusual for people to say that "versatility is broken" from an offensive standpoint; less attention is given to versatile defensive Pokemon such as Zapdos or Hariyama. This Pokemon would allow us to study the impact of having a Pokemon that is capable of dealing with such varied threats as Salamence, Lucario, and Gengar....but not all at once.
Questions To Be Answered:
--How useful is defensive versatility in a metagame with so many different threats to account for?
--Given the existence of a Pokemon that can hard counter only specific major threats, which threats will be prepared for the most?
--How would team building change if certain difficult-to-prepare-for threats became easier to prepare for?
--Which is more useful, a Pokemon that can somewhat handle a wide range of threats, or a Pokemon that can handle a few threats extremely well?
Explanation: I envision this concept as looking like a more extreme version of Porygon2 or Hariyama; it can be custom designed to handle virtually any threat given the correct selection of EVs, moves, etc. However, in choosing to deal with certain threats almost flawlessly, it leaves itself open to other threats. Multitype would obviously make this concept's job much easier, though I doubt it is absolutely necessary to making it work.

You may post here, but please put some substance into your post. Posts such as "I voted typing" will not be allowed.

 

[swordmaster117]

I choose Water for the main type.

This type will provide the CAP with a great basis for the rest of the process, sticking to the main idea of a poke that can be cutomized to whatever the user wants to counter.

I feel that steel will lead the CAP to form a Bronzong 2.0, fighting is a good second choice (yet has proven itself offensively orrientated in the past), and electric has too large of a weakness in ground (Eq just plagues too many popular movesets).

 

[Deck Knight]

Urrrf.

Electric here. It has one weakness which is relatively simple to address and 3 useful resistances. It's also fairly well unexplored territory.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Steel as might have been expected. 11 valuable resistances and an immunity, plus key weaknesses that cannot all be addressed at once. This let's us tech our utility counter to deal with only specific threats, exactly as it needs to be able to do.

 

[Aura Guardian]

Fighting will work best, I think. It likely would get some of the elemental punches, some fighting attacks (middling power), some dark, some of whatever. It could be customized (Example: Recover + Ice Punch + ThunderPunch + Focus Blast to beat Salamence/Flygon/Gyarados/Tyranitar/etc. or Recover + SuperPower + Shadow Ball + Hidden Power (Fire) to beat Scizor/Tyranitar/Gengar/Rotom-A/etc). Fighting seems the most customizable. See: SD Lucario, Crunch/Ice Punch/Stone Edge for what you want to beat. Breloom with it's various sets. This has the most promise, I think.

The Steel type has too common of weaknesses, and is more of a general counter. So it would not fit the bill. Fighting is too common. Fire on Mence/Heatran/other destroys this to an extent. Ground won't work too well, but a stray EQ could cripple this. As such, no to this typing.

Water has access to Ice attacks, meaning that most things could be dealt with. See: HP Electric/Ice Beam/Surf/Toxic/Wish/Protect/other on Vaporeon: 4 moveslot syndrome prevents Vaporeon from true power. Thus, Vaporeon can do some countering, but not all of the list of things it can counter. Thus, Vaporeon disqualifies this in my mind.

Electric, while useful, has not enough bulk to survive, usually. Anyway, it might work, but it strikes me more as a sweeper attempt than anything else. Can this really counter? I think not.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

Oh? I thought the first poll was bold and that you could pick any type? Well whatever, poison wasn't going anywhere anyways.

Steel is the best type in this case. Great defensive typing allows you to switch in on a number of attacks without much worry. Offensively it's got it merit in hitting T-tar for SE

 

[swordmaster117]

Deck what happened to supporting water? change your mind cause of Argo?

 

[Anachronism]

Sigh...3/4 of these have good stab. I guess I am forced to choose Steel...

 

[Banryu]

Hmm. No Poison. Electric instead, I guess.

 

[Midou]

Fighting. Not really surprising, though I might have voted for ghost, had it made the list.

The reasoning behind that I've already made in the general discussion thread, and it's been touched upon here already, and something tells me it will be spoke of more as well. All I've got to add is a simple list I've already constructed back in the last thread and some final thoughts concerning general typing.

Reasons why Fighting is a solid choice:
+Resistance to SR (and other rock-type offense)
+Resistance to U-turn (bug-type offense)
+Resistance to Pursuit (dark-type offense)
+Fluidity with other types (synergy)
+Excellent Stab (but keep in mind, there are large holes with solo fighting offense)
+Uncommon weaknesses defensively (they are still there though)

Too good you say? There are many, many things wrong with all the types, and fighting is no different. The excellent offense prowess of the type is only one side of the coin; the holes of this offense, as I call them, are all over the OU metagame. In addition, though it has above average resistances, they are not nearly as good as say, water, and in a completely different league with steel. But, resistances alone are not what we're looking for, and they can be addressed in many ways including secondary typing, ability, base stats, movepool, and even new possible ways that many might not have considered, such as type mutability (ability to change). Fighting's a good choice that allows all these things to be customizable, along with end-user customizations such as EVs, move set, etc. The other 3 choices are also very good in this regard, and all of them may work excellently, this poster just believes adamantly that Fighting does most of the things the others cover, and a little more.

 

[Serp]

*sigh* No Poison. :( Steel gets my vote then, its got a large amount of resistances that will help CAP 10 to counter. But a more offensive secondary type is needed though.

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

I voted for Water. Water gives us a lot of "wiggle room", not forcing us into any corner for later steps. Remember, we're still on Step 2. Water also gives us a decent STAB, so that we won't be like Skarmory, who does almost no damage without a super-effective hit or on a frail 'mon, or Blissey, whose only real way of doing damage is Seismic Toss, unless again, it's super-effective.

The 4 Fighting types in OU are all offensive, the only one that might not be a sweeper being Machamp, with decent 90/80/85 defenses. I feel that Fighting is too good of an offensive type, tying with Ground with the most types hit super-effectively, at 5. Even if we give CAP10 extremely good defensive stats, I think that people will just use this as a bulky sweeper.

Electric, once again, is a mainly offensive typing. Even with only one weakness, a great resistance(s) to Electric and Steel, and a decent resistance in Flying, IMO Earthquake just makes it on too many sets, even if it's non-STAB. Dragonite, Gyarados, Aerodactyl, and Metagross, just to name a few, almost always have Earthquake on them.

Steel, while actually being a mainly defensive typing, and has a whopping 11 resistances to Grass, Normal, Rock, Bug, Flying, Psychic, Ghost, Dark, Steel, Dragon, Ice, has an unfortunate 3 weaknesses, which although may not seem like much, are probably in the top 5 most used offensive moves. Fighting and Ground hit 5 mono-types super-effectively, making them pretty common, and Fire, along with Ground, finds itself not only on Fire-types like Infernape, but also non-STABbers for huge coverage, like Salamence and Azelf.

 

[Midou]

Before someone else says that Fighting is excellent offensive type/stab, please remember: 1 that an entire type is immune to it, 2 Gyarados, 3 Salamence, 4 many other pokemon with typing that resist it. What i'm trying to say that, though it is very devastating to those types that it hits SE, there are gaping holes to balance it.

 

[WaffleChan]

A little dissapointed with the lack of Poison's inclusion but I'm also delighted to vote for electric. Like Engineer Pikachu stated for water, I believe Electric gives us space to work with. That and since CAP's main purpose is to learn about the current OU metagame I think electric gives us the best chance to do so. Electric types are usually thought of as fast attackers so a defensive one holds a vast amount of intrigue to me. It also fits the concept in my opinion, it has a decent STAB but is compromised by the populous presence of ground type pokemon. A steel resistance isn't miraculous but does address Pokemon like Scizor.
I doubt the CAP community will let EQ destroy this thing so I can't quite believe that it'll be too big of an issue.

 

[PeanutFlipz]

No Poison...well my vote goes for Electric then, due to the lack of weaknesses. This gives it a good base to work with and anything shortcomings can be remedied later.

 

[Slyguy46]

Dissapointed about the lack of Poison, but I voted Water, as there are several possibilities for secondary typing, and Water supports Utility Counter the greatest.

 

[Staraptor Call]

Electric was my choice. For CAP10 to be able to counter as many things as possible, it will have to have as few weaknesses as possible, and Electric only has one easily avoidable weakness. Having many resistances should not specifically be a goal, because that would lead to CAP10 always being able to counter certain Pokemon. That takes away from the concept, because CAP10 should not be able to counter certain Pokemon all the time.

 

[Aqueos]

Water has only 2 weaknesses electric and the rarely used grass. It also has great resists and neutral offensive power.

 

[darkmattr]

I voted fighting. Great resistances, weaknesses to two poorly offensive types in psychic and flying. Most fighting types are considered offensive, so a very defensive fighting type is really interesting.

 

[Anachronism]

Don't people realize that choosing water means that every CAP 10 will run:

Water Stab
Recovery

and 2 of
electric, grass, ice, or secondary stab

?

We will not get the versatility we want with this typing. We need to choose something with bad stab or this will become a big failure of a cap. It sucks that Normal, the best type for the job, died because people aren't creative enough to choose the correct type not the best type.

 

[holitrix]

Awww no poison. I voted water for its good STAB, useful resistances to fire, ice, steel (bullet punch) and water itself.

 

[swordmaster117]

Don't people realize that choosing water means that every CAP 10 will run:

Water Stab
Recovery

and 2 of
electric, grass, ice, or secondary stab

?

We will not get the versatility we want with this typing. We need to choose something with bad stab or this will become a big failure of a cap. It sucks that Normal, the best type for the job, died because people aren't creative enough to choose the correct type not the best type.

Not if we dont give it HP...

 

[CuneH8sVappy]

Actually, a good STAB such as Water or Electric makes for a decent scare tactic. Steel (or normal/poison) STAB wouldn't be as anticipated, due to the awful coverage. Good STAB might cause the opponent to switch to a resist. If the opponent's team has been properly scouted, the likely switch in could be nailed with a SE hit. This Poke will not be hindered by good STAB; it could actually help it.

 

[lyt_cadorea]

I voted Electric.

It has one weakness, and pairs up great with a variety of other types (Poison, Flying, Grass).

 

[Anachronism]

I am not saying it will be hindered by it, I am just saying it doesn't promote the concept. We need to fight set stagnancy as much as possible! I think it will probably be assumed that if you switch CAP 10 into something then you have a super effective move on it, and that is enough of a scare tactic isn't it?