CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 5c - Secondary Ability Poll 2

[Veedrock]

Static doesn't really compliment Deck's spread. It's physically defensive, and most contact moves are physical. I guess you can nab them switching in but after that they won't stick around to be walled and be paralyzed. Claiming that it will deter physical attacks is pretty redundant considering that the stats already do that. Marvel Scale is in a similar situation as a defense boost won't be much benefit.

EDIT: It's likely that I'll support static in the next poll if its there though. Can't decide between it and NSA.

 

[The_Bassoonist]

AARGH! Why did it have to take untill now to see the value of Static on CAP 8? Now when my vote is long gone and used up! I supose I'll have to try and make ammends by supporting it afterwards instead...

@Veedrock: That's the point with Static. It is best used and abused by constantly switching in on predicted physical contact moves. If CAP 8 has a high Defence, like Deck's spread does, it will do this so much better by taking reduced damage. Should we chose to give CAP 8 a reliable recovery move, or with some Wish support from a teammate, it will do so all the more effectively. This strategy is of course best utilised early, before the opponent has scouted your team too much so you can potentially land them a nasty surprise. And besides, if, as you say, the opponent is forced to switch due to paralysis or walling, that's good isn't it? Gels perfectly with Entry Hazards!

Either way, Static is still a defensive ability, like Shield Dust, so we will still be able to concentrate the movepool accordingly. And I don't see it overshadowing Shield Dust either. Just adds a different way of using CAP 8, should one decide to do so.

 

[RotationalBasis]

I would like to see this pokemon have the ability Static, partly for flavor but also because I think it could be a valuable ability on an offensive pokemon, perhaps forcing the opponent into frustrating situations when trying to sweep, and giving CAP8 an advantage over other Tanks, if that is what it becomes. At the same time, it is probably not powerful enough to overshadow Shield Dust, something people seem to be very worried about.

Of course, I accidentally voted NSA

 

[jagged_angel]

I'm afraid the majority of the reasoning for Static fails, and fails hard.

Yes there is a chance that you can switch in on a predicted contact move and paralyse the opponent. But these chances will be few and far between even with Deck/tennis' physically bulky stat spread. All the while, you're switching in what is best a mediocre physical sponge (compared to Cress, Skarm, Hippo, Forry and other dedicated physical walls) for what? A measly 30% chance of paralysis. That my friends, is a Bad decision.

The typing of CAP8, Electric/Dragon (E/D) doesn't lend itself to physical walling at all well. Of its resists: Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Flying and Steel, only Steel moves are commonly contact moves. Thus, CAP8 has to rely on coming in on neutral hits. Unfortunately, the damage calcs demonstrate that that's not a clever strategy. Physical hitters are much more powerful in DPPt and most neutral hits Will damage CAP8 too much for you to want to switch in to take the chance of Static activating.

Lets have a look at X-Act's most recent move usage list and see which of the top 20 moves CAP8 can switch in on.

Earthquake 19.97% non contact
Thunderbolt 12.52% non contact
U-turn 10.52%
Surf 8.67% non contact
Stone Edge 8.35% non contact
Ice Beam 8.19% non contact
Explosion 8.18% non contact
Shadow Ball 6.61% non contact
Bullet Punch 6.13%
Fire Blast 6.09% non contact
Earth Power 5.93% non contact
Grass Knot 5.59% non contact
Ice Punch 5.56% SuperEffective
Crunch 5.41%
Outrage 5.0% SuperEffective
Waterfall 4.92% non contact
Flamethrower 4.82% non contact
Close Combat 4.79%
Pursuit 4.78%
Superpower 4.12%
Draco Meteor 4.1% non contact


So, we have
U-Turn
Bullet Punch
Crunch
Close Combat
Pursuit
Superpower


That's pathetic. Meteor Mash doesn't even make the top 20. That's a pretty meagre list when you look at the rest of the moves in the top 20. The vast majority are Non Contact.

I have not included Ice Punch or Outrage since no sane person would switch into SE moves anyway, especially not Outrage.

You can take off Pursuit straightaway since you cant switch CAP8 into a Pursuit, it will merely hit the pokemon switching out harder!

Close Combat and Superpower hit too hard - from Deck's own calcs - Close Combat/Superpower: 38-45% [STAB] You really don't want to switch into that. With SR down, that's almost a 2HKO. Switching in to a CC for 30% chance of paralysis is a very foolish thing to do. The common users of the moves, and the moves themselves are simply too strong, even when neutral.
Of course, this doesn't take into account popular pokes like SDLuke and SDApe who will more likely Swords Dance on the switch and hit you with a boosted CC. Ouch. So, remove those two moves from the list.

So, now we have
U-Turn
Bullet Punch
Crunch

That's only 3 moves from the whole of the top 20 most used moves on the CAP server. I don't want to hear arguments about Meteor Mash or Aqua Tail - the stats prove they're simply not used often enough to be useful.

U-Turn is admittedly a very good choice to switch into. Most U-Turners are fast and wont want to be paralysed (Aside from arguably the best U-Turner, Flygon, who is immune to Static).

Bullet Punch usage is almost solely due to Scizor, whom you can pretty much wall with or without Static. Bullet Punchers also don't care about Paralysis as much as other sweepers since Bullet Punch gets priority anyway. CAP8 is also going to have base 80 or 110 speed so will outspeed all Bullet Punchers except Lucario anyway. Agiligross doesn't carry Bullet Punch so doesnt count.

Crunch is the least used of the 3, and it's mainly TTar, who can also EQ and Ice Beam you for major damage. So you'd have to have Very good prediction to want to switch in. Stone Edge is not contact and Will hurt. So that's only one of its most popular moves that you can switch into.

I hope you can be bother to read this, for I feel it is a strong argument as to why Static will be of relatively little use to CAP8.

 

[Deck Knight]

I'm afraid the majority of the reasoning for Static fails, and fails hard.

Yes there is a chance that you can switch in on a predicted contact move and paralyse the opponent. But these chances will be few and far between even with Deck/tennis' physically bulky stat spread. All the while, you're switching in what is best a mediocre physical sponge (compared to Cress, Skarm, Hippo, Forry and other dedicated physical walls) for what? A measly 30% chance of paralysis. That my friends, is a Bad decision.

If you'll notice, the spread has the exact same HP/Defense as Hippowdon jagged, and the spread I listed for calcs is not a dedicated physical wall. If you believe Hippowdon to be worthy of the dedicated physical wall title when it too resists none of the common physical attacks outside Stone Edge, then the lady doth protest too much.

I think your list needs adjustment for realism:

Earthquake 19.97% non contact
Thunderbolt 12.52%pathetic damage
U-turn 10.52%
Surf 8.67% resisted
Stone Edge 8.35% non contact
Ice Beam 8.19% SuperEffective
Explosion 8.18% KOs User
Shadow Ball 6.61% non contact
Bullet Punch 6.13% See: Scizor
Fire Blast 6.09% resisted
Earth Power 5.93%Super Effective
Grass Knot 5.59% resisted
Ice Punch 5.56% Unstabbed nearly all the time
Crunch 5.41%
Outrage 5.0% SuperEffective
Waterfall 4.92% resisted
Flamethrower 4.82% resisted
Close Combat 4.79%
Pursuit 4.78%
Superpower 4.12% Drops users Attack/Defense
Draco Meteor 4.1% non contact

Furthermore your list uses the chicanery of listing moves and not pokemon. This entirely ignores the fact that you don't face 24 moves in battle, you face 6 Pokemon.

Lets look at the top 20 pokemon:

1. Metagross (always carrier Meteor Mash, occasionally Bullet Punch)
2. Latias (Special attacker, weak to Dragon)
3. Scizor (always carries Bullet Punch and U-Turn)
4. Salamence (Outrage only common physical move)
5. Jirachi (makes a living using Zen Headbutt and Iron Head)
6. Starmie (Special attacker, weak to Electric)
7. Tyranitar (Commonly runs at least one of Pursuit, Superpower, or Aqua Tail in its 4th slot)
8. Heatran (Special attacker)
9. Infernape (Mixed attacker, Dragon resists fire stab)
10. Zapdos (completely walled without HP Ice)
11. Fidgit (Special attacker, us. only runs Earth Power for offense)
12. Machamp (all attacks contact except Stone Edge and Earthquake)
13. Breloom (Seed Bomb resisted, Focus Punch biggest threat.)
14. Arghonaut (almost always physical sets)
15. Skarmory (lol)
16. Celebi (usually special attacker or support.)
17. Stratagem (Special attacker)
18. Flyon (If you predict U-turn you're damn ballsy but it can pay off.)
19. Snorlax (all contact attacks)
20. Magnezone (Special attacker, needs HP Ice or completely walled)

I have not included Ice Punch or Outrage since no sane person would switch into SE moves anyway, especially not Outrage.

With all due respect JA, the only Ice Punch you wouldn't switch into is Weaviles. Hippowdon soaks up unSTAB Ice Punches as if they are nothing.

Close Combat and Superpower hit too hard - from Deck's own calcs - Close Combat/Superpower: 38-45% [STAB] You really don't want to switch into that.

You left out the most important part JA: The opponent's Attack Stat. That is 394 aka Machamp, the only CC user at that attack level. Infernape and Lucario do nowhere near that level of damage. Thank you for not reading the calculations at all. You are scaremongering based on a single pokemon, Machamp, that usually only runs Close Combat on a set that uses Guts. Otherwise you're talking Dynamicpunch and if you're switching inot Machamp Shield Dust is probably the better ability anyway for that reason.

That's only 3 moves from the whole of the top 20 most used moves on the CAP server. I don't want to hear arguments about Meteor Mash or Aqua Tail - the stats prove they're simply not used often enough to be useful.

Metagross is #1 in usage. Metagross uses Meteor Mash almost without fail, and Zen Headbutt has become ever more popular. It is asinine to base a switchin on a random set of moves rather than a known set of pokemon.

U-Turn is admittedly a very good choice to switch into. Most U-Turners are fast and wont want to be paralysed (Aside from arguably the best U-Turner, Flygon, who is immune to Static).

Ground types are not immune to Static. Abilities do not have a "type" associated with them.

Bullet Punch usage is almost solely due to Scizor, whom you can pretty much wall with or without Static. Bullet Punchers also don't care about Paralysis as much as other sweepers since Bullet Punch gets priority anyway. [/Quote]

Unless all they ever SPAM is Bullet Punch, 90 BP w/STAB on best case scenario Scizor, they care a great deal if they can't outspeed your walls or slow sweepers before they can recover. Good luck trying to Superpower that Curselax, Scizor. Hope you get a CH.

I hope you can be bother to read this, for I feel it is a strong argument as to why Static will be of relatively little use to CAP8.

Your argument is a mangled ball of disinformation based upon several faulty premises that uses tortured statistics. If you're going to make an argument can you at least check that any of your foundations is sound?

Do not argue about how Hippowdon is a much better physical wall when the spread you are assuming has the exact same Base HP/Defense.

Check ability knowledge (like static paralyzing all contact attack users regardless of typing) before using it as an argument. The only contact attackers immune to Static are Persian, Hitmonlee, and Kitsunoh: When they have Limber.

Finally, do not post a single attack calc without mentioning the offensive capability of its user.

 

[The_Bassoonist]

"Waterfall 4.92% non contact"

Wtf? According to Serebii.net's attackdex (which does list if a move is contact or not, which Smogon's movelist unfortunately doesn't), it is. The description of the move is that you "charge at the foe with speed to climb waterfalls". That certainly sounds like a contact move to me...

 

[ray2020]

"Waterfall 4.92% non contact"

Wtf? According to Serebii.net's attackdex (which does list if a move is contact or not, which Smogon's movelist unfortunately doesn't), it is. The description of the move is that you "charge at the foe with speed to climb waterfalls". That certainly sounds like a contact move to me...

it is according to bulbapedia

 

[zarator]

If you'll notice, the spread has the exact same HP/Defense as Hippowdon jagged, and the spread I listed for calcs is not a dedicated physical wall. If you believe Hippowdon to be worthy of the dedicated physical wall title when it too resists none of the common physical attacks outside Stone Edge, then the lady doth protest too much.

Hippowdon gets Slack Off. There's still the possibility that CAP8 doesn't get an istant healing move(which I would agree with so far but I dont want to get off-topic). With unability to heal off damage, you cannot switch CAP8 boldly in as you would do with Hippowdon.

I think your list needs adjustment for realism.

Sorry, but you pretty much confirmed J_A point. Saying that Thunderbolt does pathetic damage doesn't cancel out the fact that the most common moves (the moves you have the highest chance to switch into) will not activate Static, thus making Static effect coming into use much more rarely that you supposed.

Furthermore your list uses the chicanery of listing moves and not pokemon. This entirely ignores the fact that you don't face 24 moves in battle, you face 6 Pokemon.

I agree with this point, but... Lets get on the particulars.

Lets look at the top 20 pokemon:

1. Metagross (always carrier Meteor Mash, occasionally Bullet Punch)
If you switch into a banded Zen Headbutt (the most common attack Metagross will fire generally when banded) you are 3HKOed (assuming a totally defensive spread), almost 2HKOed if SR is on the field. LO Agility Metagross will pack Earthquake if CAP8 is around (much like it started packing Zen Headbutt for Rev and Argho), so it doent care a shit about your Static. Leadgross can still explode on you, so Static is pointless even in this case.
2. Latias (Special attacker, weak to Dragon)
So Static is useless against her
3. Scizor (always carries Bullet Punch and U-Turn)
Unless we encounter the famous Curselax you told us (which is not that much around), Scizor doesnt care that much about paralysis outside the occasional hax. But lets take this occurrence as "Static useful"
4. Salamence (Outrage only common physical move)
So, 70% of the time (assuming Mence will always Outrage you instead of Earthquake or draco Meteor) you will not accomplish nothing against him. Therefore Static is useless against Mence too.
5. Jirachi (makes a living using Zen Headbutt and Iron Head)
Point taken, but Shield Dust works too so Static would not add that much.
6. Starmie (Special attacker, weak to Electric)
Another poke who does not care a shit of Static
7. Tyranitar (Commonly runs at least one of Pursuit, Superpower, or Aqua Tail in its 4th slot)
Pursuit is pointless as J_A showed, Superpower and Aqua Tail will much less commonly be spammed than Stone Edge, Crunch and Earthquake. Good luck switching into the right move, and even then, most BandTar do not care that much about Paralysis. Good luck too if you happen to face a Boah or a DD Tar.
8. Heatran (Special attacker)
So Static is useless against him too
9. Infernape (Mixed attacker, Dragon resists fire stab)
Close Combat is still a 3HKO, so if you don't have a recovery move, good luck. Flare Blitz is also uncommon - most Apes carry Fire Blast, which does not trigger Static
10. Zapdos (completely walled without HP Ice)
Another useless Static target
11. Fidgit (Special attacker, us. only runs Earth Power for offense)
Same as above
12. Machamp (all attacks contact except Stone Edge and Earthquake)
Good luck to switch in more than 2 times without dying in the process. And Machamp too does not care that much of Paralysis - unless it is a Guts version obviously, which would thank you heartily.
13. Breloom (Seed Bomb resisted, Focus Punch biggest threat.)
As you said, good luck taking a Focus Punch into the face, and Breloom has Toxic Orb almost always, so Static is pointless.
14. Arghonaut (almost always physical sets)
You would destroy him even without paralysis, but point taken
15. Skarmory (lol)
Unless you switch into Brave Bird, chances are Skarm will never trigger Static
16. Celebi (usually special attacker or support.)
So Static is useless against him
17. Stratagem (Special attacker)
Same as above
18. Flyon (If you predict U-turn you're damn ballsy but it can pay off.)
And if you are met with Earthquake or Outrage... I'd rather switch inot Flygon something else
19. Snorlax (all contact attacks)
Yes, because a 30 Speed Curser is completely ruined by Paralysis, right?
20. Magnezone (Special attacker, needs HP Ice or completely walled)
But will never trigger Static [/quote]

So, out of the top 20, only Metagross, Scizor, Tyranitar, Salamence, Jirachi, Arghonaut, Snorlax and Infernape will ever have the chance to activate Static, and even then, aside from Snorlax and Argho all of them will have much more chances to destroy you before Static even triggers (especially in Mence case), and even then, the fastest of these targets (outside of Mence, and Jirachi which can be taken care of with Shield Dust) is Argho, which surely is not the fastes guy out there. I really fail to see how in the world Static could come in handy, aside from very situational circumstances.

With all due respect JA, the only Ice Punch you wouldn't switch into is Weaviles. Hippowdon soaks up unSTAB Ice Punches as if they are nothing.

Agreeing here

You left out the most important part JA: The opponent's Attack Stat. That is 394 aka Machamp, the only CC user at that attack level. Infernape and Lucario do nowhere near that level of damage. Thank you for not reading the calculations at all. You are scaremongering based on a single pokemon, Machamp, that usually only runs Close Combat on a set that uses Guts. Otherwise you're talking Dynamicpunch and if you're switching inot Machamp Shield Dust is probably the better ability anyway for that reason.

As I said, CC from Lucario and Infernape still hurt a lot unless you have a istant healing move.

Metagross is #1 in usage. Metagross uses Meteor Mash almost without fail, and Zen Headbutt has become ever more popular. It is asinine to base a switchin on a random set of moves rather than a known set of pokemon.

I covered this above

Ground types are not immune to Static. Abilities do not have a "type" associated with them.

Right

Unless all they ever SPAM is Bullet Punch, 90 BP w/STAB on best case scenario Scizor, they care a great deal if they can't outspeed your walls or slow sweepers before they can recover. Good luck trying to Superpower that Curselax, Scizor. Hope you get a CH.

Sorry, but I fail to consider Curselax this impending threat as you suggest in the example. And above all, why should I face it with Scizor?

Your argument is a mangled ball of disinformation based upon several faulty premises that uses tortured statistics. If you're going to make an argument can you at least check that any of your foundations is sound?

Thanks for the suggestion, but can you try too, first?

 

[CaptKirby]

I do not really care as long as it is not static. As Deck Knight's argument of "crippling the opponent without even using a moveslot" goes, that is exactly why Static is bad - it is a fucking broken ability.

 

[Gooey Kablooie]

The other point of Static is that you are forcefully manipulating your opponent in how they will want to attack you. It's true that every pokemon brings in this dynamic of how you will want to attack it but Static further raises that dynamic for your favor. Also, the argument stating CurseLax only faces the "occasional hax" is true, but without Static it essentially faces absolutely no "occasional hax". I hate to say it but I'd rather bank on the chances of 25%, than the chances of 0% (and I would like to see anyone disagree with that). Also, I believe the point Decknight is trying to make by listing the commonly used pokes and their commonly used moves is that there are clearly pokemon that we won't switch in to (Static or not) and there are pokes that we resist and switch in to, to paralyse and further cripple them or simply laugh at their poor attacks. Which again I'll state the merits of how important that is late game. I can't tell you enough how much easier it makes it when you status your opponents and either force a switch through the status or simply because they have no chance of beating CaP 8, you literally gain a weight off your chest when you think "good now they're paralysed, that will make this easier". You're opponents poke has the chance of being turned into a meat bag, thats only use will be to absorb damage and die. I don't know about you but when I battle and status someone (not to mention status them because they attacked me) I count that as a total advantage in my favor. The point of Static is to further inhibit and cripple your opponent. Which by the way, by choosing No Secondary Ability, you don't even get that "chance", if that's what you really want to call it. So, call me an idiot, but I'll be the idiot statusing and crippling your pokes when they attack me.

And Static is broken, wth? How did you come flying out of the complete opposite side of the spectrum, claiming that it's broken? It's useful, sure, and that's why we should use it. But, it is by no means broken.

 

[zarator]

The other point of Static is that you are forcefully manipulating your opponent in how they will want to attack you. It's true that every pokemon brings in this dynamic of how you will want to attack it but Static further raises that dynamic for your favor. Also, the argument stating CurseLax only faces the "occasional hax" is true, but without Static it essentially faces absolutely no "occasional hax". I hate to say it but I'd rather bank on the chances of 25%, than the chances of 0% (and I would like to see anyone disagree with that). Also, I believe the point Decknight is trying to make by listing the commonly used pokes and their commonly used moves is that there are clearly pokemon that we won't switch in to (Static or not) and there are pokes that we resist and switch in to, to paralyse and further cripple them or simply laugh at their poor attacks. Which again I'll state the merits of how important that is late game. I can't tell you enough how much easier it makes it when you status your opponents and either force a switch through the status or simply because they have no chance of beating CaP 8, you literally gain a weight off your chest when you think "good now they're paralysed, that will make this easier". You're opponents poke has the chance of being turned into a meat bag, thats only use will be to absorb damage and die. I don't know about you but when I battle and status someone (not to mention status them because they attacked me) I count that as a total advantage in my favor. The point of Static is to further inhibit and cripple your opponent. Which by the way, by choosing No Secondary Ability, you don't even get that "chance", if that's what you really want to call it. So, call me an idiot, but I'll be the idiot statusing and crippling your pokes when they attack me.

And Static is broken, wth? How did you come flying out of the complete opposite side of the spectrum, claiming that it's broken? It's useful, sure, and that's why we should use it. But, it is by no means broken.

First of all, you are better things to do when a Curselax stats up rather than try to let him paralyze on you. Chances are it will simply stat up, rest off the residual damage - and the status - making your Static pointless.

Moreover, the Pokémon you would switch into with CAP8 out of the list (assuming DK spread win) are:
1)Metagross (very risky as I outlined before)
3)Scizor
5)Jirachi
7)Tyranitar (even if it is a risky one, and Argho is far better at the job)
8)Heatran
9)Infernape (another risky one, since CC is a 3HKO)
10)Zapdos
14)Arghonaut
15)Skarmory
16)Celebi
19)Snorlax
20)Magnezone

Out of these 12, only Metagross, Scizor, Jirachi, Tyranitar, Infernape, Arghonaut and Snorlax. And out of these 7, only Scizor, Jirachi, Arghonaut and Snorlax stand out as really safe enough switch-ins to go for the Static (asking CAP8 to go for the Static against stuff like Tyranitar or Infenape is like asking RBY Chansey to go for the freeze against Persian or pretty much any other physical attacker). Scizor, as I outlined before, is not that much crippled by Paralysis (I'd prefer to burn, freeze or sleep him instead), Jirachi can be taken on with Shield Dust, Argho pose no threat to cAP8 and Snorlax is not that uncommon (it's also pretty easily walled by Arghonaut, above others).

I imagine Deck wants somehow to sway CAP8 towards its old Parabusing tank, but Static is really that shit of an ability. If REALLY I'd have to go for an ability, I'd rather prefere to go with Trace. But I already explained why I'm apposed to a secondary ability. CAPs are not Christmas trees.

 

[Azule]

Im gonna jump off the bandwagon and say Rough Skin would be nice, it would make players think a little before using a physical attack agaisnt say, Blissey, because upon the switch to CAP8, the extra damage could stop a few threats.

 

[zarator]

Im gonna jump off the bandwagon and say Rough Skin would be nice, it would make players think a little before using a physical attack agaisnt say, Blissey, because upon the switch to CAP8, the extra damage could stop a few threats.

And you think I'm gonna hold on my Waterfall/Stone Edge/Pursuit/Outrage/Close Combat only for fear of CAP8 dealing me 1/8 of my health? (note how only the last 2 activate Rough Skin and how only Close Combat is the only attack CAP8 can really afford to switch in out of these 2)

 

[Gooey Kablooie]

First of all, you are better things to do when a Curselax stats up rather than try to let him paralyze on you. Chances are it will simply stat up, rest off the residual damage - and the status - making your Static pointless.

Moreover, the Pokémon you would switch into with CAP8 out of the list (assuming DK spread win) are:
1)Metagross (very risky as I outlined before)
3)Scizor
5)Jirachi
7)Tyranitar (even if it is a risky one, and Argho is far better at the job)
8)Heatran
9)Infernape (another risky one, since CC is a 3HKO)
10)Zapdos
14)Arghonaut
15)Skarmory
16)Celebi
19)Snorlax
20)Magnezone

Out of these 12, only Metagross, Scizor, Jirachi, Tyranitar, Infernape, Arghonaut and Snorlax. And out of these 7, only Scizor, Jirachi, Arghonaut and Snorlax stand out as really safe enough switch-ins to go for the Static (asking CAP8 to go for the Static against stuff like Tyranitar or Infenape is like asking RBY Chansey to go for the freeze against Persian or pretty much any other physical attacker). Scizor, as I outlined before, is not that much crippled by Paralysis (I'd prefer to burn, freeze or sleep him instead), Jirachi can be taken on with Shield Dust, Argho pose no threat to cAP8 and Snorlax is not that uncommon (it's also pretty easily walled by Arghonaut, above others).

I imagine Deck wants somehow to sway CAP8 towards its old Parabusing tank, but Static is really that shit of an ability. If REALLY I'd have to go for an ability, I'd rather prefere to go with Trace. But I already explained why I'm apposed to a secondary ability. CAPs are not Christmas trees.

Simply, what I'm saying is that you can try and refute the usefulness of Static all you want, but all you're going to try and get out of it is it "isn't very useful". Which, Deck Knight and myself have proved is easily arguable. Without choosing Static as a second ability and by choosing no second ability instead, that argued usefulness is immediately dropped to zero, whether anyone believes it to be "Very useful", or "not that useful at all". By not choosing it we don't gain any chance of it being useful in any way shape or form. If you don't like it and don't find it useful down the road, don't use it then, it's as simple as that. But, by limiting yourself by not taking any chance on it is severely limiting your options IMO.

(On a side note, I like watching The Office and this quote came up recently, which I find works very well for this argument: "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." -Wayne Gretzky)

First of all, you are better things to do when a Curselax stats up rather than try to let him paralyze on you. Chances are it will simply stat up, rest off the residual damage - and the status - making your Static pointless.

I'm not saying that when facing CurseLax you should try this approach. But rather it gives you that ever so slight advantage if you find yourself in such a tight situation because I believe that every real battler knows that your options when battling aren't always infinite. You won't always have an answer, or counter to everything. Furthermore, I don't see how making CaP 8 more adaptable to that type of situation (or other tough situations) is any type of hindrance.

 

[zarator]

Simply, what I'm saying is that you can try and refute the usefulness of Static all you want, but all you're going to try and get out of it is it "isn't very useful". Which, as myself and Deck Knight have proved is easily arguable. Without choosing Static as a second ability and by choosing no second ability instead, that argued usefulness is immediately dropped to zero, whether anyone believes it to be "Very useful", or "not that useful at all". By not choosing it we don't gain any chance of it being useful in any way shape or form. If you don't like it, don't use it then, it's as simple as that.

What we seem not to agree upon is another thing. It's my opinion that we should not aim to give our CAPs everything which could be useful or whatever, but just what it needs to fulfill the concept it represents. I already said it once, but I will repeat: CAPs are not Christmas trees we should aim to make more and more shining and gorgeous by adding the most high number of options which dont make it broken. There's a concept, and we should stick to it. CAP8 should try to make the best out of a neglected ability. We assigned it one. Now lets try to make it able to put it to use. And how does Static help CAP8 to better use Shield Dust? If you are thinking "damn I hate Shield Dust I'd rather prefere Static" that's one thing, but I can't agree with such a mindset. It is not honest trying to sway a concept to its own purposes. Especially when it means trying to adapt a versatile concept to its own, refused one.

 

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

Last but not least, if u are opposed to "no secondary ability" getting chosen, choose Trace even if you wanted something else, since Trace is the only one that stands a chance of winning before its too late.

Keeping this in mind and voting for Trace. Technically, Statics also up there, but there are two problems with Static

A: It only works 70% of the time
B: It definitely won't work if the opponent uses Earthquake, Rock Slide or Stone Edge, the former of which it's weak to.

Whereas Trace doesn't have these problems.

 

[Gooey Kablooie]

Keeping this in mind and voting for Trace. Technically, Statics also up there, but there are two problems with Static

A: It only works 70% of the time
B: It definitely won't work if the opponent uses Earthquake, Rock Slide or Stone Edge, the former of which it's weak to.

Whereas Trace doesn't have these problems.

Explain to me:
A: How Trace works advantageously more than 70% of the time? Other than trying to copy Vaporeon, Jolteon, Heatran, Flygon, or Salamence, which I already stated as being not very convincing, nor amazingly useful. Furthermore, the chance of copying useless abilities is quite high.
B: So, how does Trace make CaP 8 fair any better against Earthquake, Rockslide or Stone Edge than say Static would? Aside from switching in to Flygon to try and get levitate and that only counts for Earthquake, which is risky enough as it is.

So, again how does Trace not have your listed problems?

 

[Objection]

Keeping this in mind and voting for Trace. Technically, Statics also up there, but there are two problems with Static

A: It only works 70% of the time
B: It definitely won't work if the opponent uses Earthquake, Rock Slide or Stone Edge, the former of which it's weak to.

Whereas Trace doesn't have these problems.

Actually Static doesn't even work that often. Factoring in the number and frequency of contact moves that CAP8 will actually survive and the 30% chance of activation, the odds of it working can't be much better than 10%.

 

[Gooey Kablooie]

Actually Static doesn't even work that often. Factoring in the number and frequency of contact moves that CAP8 will actually survive and the 30% chance of activation, the odds of it working can't be much better than 10%.

Yet...you forgot to factor in how often certain contact moves are used in battle and the fact that they are used multiple times in said battle. Not to mention all the ability has to do is fall within it's margin of activation once and that's all you need.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Marvel Scale is by no means, grounds for a safe switch. It just provides a benefit to help ease the fact that you've still got a nasty status.



Except... you're asleep...

Ha ha, that was good. But I know, right? What would you be able to do if you're asleep? And Sleep Talk can only go so far.

I voted Marvel Scale as well because the rest are not good at all. Besides, why not have a secondary ability? It's not like, we'll be degrading the Cap with one. The only real problem is if we give it the wrong one. I can't believe people are still going for Rough Skin.

 

[pikpikcarrotmon]

I can see your point, but you are discounting Waterfall, Grass Knot, Iron Head, Brave Bird, Drill Peck, Thunder Punch, Fire Punch, and Flare Blitz, all of which are used regularly on OU Pokemon, not to mention a few of the neutral attacks like U-Turn.

This was in the other thread when you said CAP8's resists were useless for Static - you didn't address it and now you're making the same argument here. And Waterfall is a contact move according to Bulbapedia, Serebii, and even Marriland. Static, even if it doesn't activate, still provides a passive threat to the opponent on switch-ins for sure.

Also, Rough Skin voters - that's just a worse Static. 1/8 HP is an easy tradeoff for killing CAP8, it won't deter or protect anything. I don't think we're building this into a stall machine and that's the only time I can see it being effective.

 

[jagged_angel]

your list uses the chicanery of listing moves and not pokemon. This entirely ignores the fact that you don't face 24 moves in battle, you face 6 Pokemon.

Actually, it's you who is using chicanery posting a list of pokemon, the prevalence of any particular pokemon is irrelevant compared to how often you are going to get hit by particular moves, since it is moves that activate Static, not the pokemon themselves.

Metagross may be number one, but the fact remains that Meteor Mash isn't even in the top 20 moves, while EQ is THE most used. Gross runs both so is pretty risky to switch into.

Regarding your alterations to the top 20 list of moves - I know that most of them are resisted special attacks - So What? That's got nothing to do with Static.

I admit that most CCs will not be coming off 394 attack. But Lucario and Nape Are much more likely to throw a SD'd CC at you so their lower attack stats balance out.

You can pick as many holes in my post as you want but the fact remains that there just aren't enough contact moves used for Static to be viable on any typing except one that has a ton of Physical resists.

 

[Objection]

Yet...you forgot to factor in how often certain contact moves are used in battle and the fact that they are used multiple times in said battle. Not to mention all the ability has to do is fall within it's margin of activation once and that's all you need.

I still think 70% is an incredibly optimistic estimate.

To be honest though, I couldn't care less what the secondary ability (if there is one) comes out to be. One thing I will say about Static and the advantage it has over Discharge is that it can work against ground-types and volt absorbers, if by any chance they happen to be using a contact move that CAP8 can survive.

 

[cyberzero]

This poll is over, No Secondary Ability, Trace and Static will be moving on.

Look forward to the third Secondary Ability Poll to begin soon!