CaP Prevos: Voodoll - Part 1 - Overview & Type Discussion

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DHR-107

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Hi All!

With the updates currently going on in the CaP Forum proper, The Prevolution Workshop will become our home for the time being while their parents get sorted out. As Voodoom has been completed in its updates, this gives us a chance to start on Voodoll!



Thanks to DJD and some older artwork, we have a neat headstart on things! Artists, get going. Let's see some updated artwork of our little creepy doll. To everyone else, the above typing is just an idea. What else would you like to see from Voodoll? What interesting things could Voodoll do similar to its parent? Or not similar at all maybe? Lets start with its typing. Voodoom itself is Fighting/Dark, so that combination will always make the poll regardless. Do any other types jump out at you?

Remember, we are still a Primarily Flavour Project. Yes, CaP LC Exists, but let's try not to let it cloud our judgement too much. I don't want to see any min/maxing stats or other dodgy looking subs. Oh, one more thing. We we be making these with Gen 7 in mind. I might talk to some of the Prevo Contributors after the fact about making "Gen 4 Versions", but that is a little way down the line.
 

G-Luke

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I personally never liked the idea of a Prevolution changing its primary typing. It has only happened once in my knowledge ( Onix --> Steelix) and I wouldn't want it to be a habit taken up by CAP. I would like pure Fighting or Fighting/Dark to be the main typings to focus on. Similar to its parent, I'd want to see more discussion on that before commenting my opinion.
 

nv

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I personally never liked the idea of a Prevolution changing its primary typing. It has only happened once in my knowledge ( Onix --> Steelix) and I wouldn't want it to be a habit taken up by CAP. I would like pure Fighting or Fighting/Dark to be the main typings to focus on. Similar to its parent, I'd want to see more discussion on that before commenting my opinion.
It has also happened with Swablu ---> Altaria, but I feel like Voodoll doesn't look like a Fighting-type, although tbf it isn't like Voodoom looks like one either. For me, I believe there are three options for Voodoll's typing: Normal/Dark, Fighting, or Fighting/Dark. Let's go over each one individually in how they can be beneficial flavor-wise (and on the competitive side of things).

Normal/Dark
The good thing about this typing is it is still largely unexplored with us just getting our first ever Normal/Dark line in the Alolan formes of Rattata and Raticate in Sun/Moon. The fact that this particular line of Pokemon is the only instance of this makes Normal/Dark appealing for the reason that it is virtually unseen (and was non-existent until this generation). The issue I already see with making Voodoll Normal/Dark is the whole "changing primary typing" as well as the lack of solid special options for its Normal typing if Voodoll ends up being specially biased likes its evolved form. Since we are basing this off of its evo, Voodoll wouldn't have access to a reliable special STAB as Voodoom only knows Snore, Hyper Beam, and Uproar. Furthermore, the Normal typing wouldn't do anything really for Voodoll except for giving it a Ghost immunity (which it already has a resistance thanks to being part Dark-type) and stacking a Fighting weakness with its secondary typing.

EDIT: Turns out I forgot Voodoom got Hyper Voice via its update (I was going off of the /learn command on PS! silly me) so at least Voodoll would have a reliable special STAB, but my point still stands about the rest of it.

Fighting
A pure Fighting-type Voodoll would be really neat, but the immediate issue I see is that Voodoll doesn't look like a pure Fighting-type. While I know we are basing all the prevos on flavor, the competitive side of things makes Voodoll hard pressed to be used if we go this route since LC/LCAP have so many good Fighting-types already (Mienfoo, Timburr, Scratchet) and thus it is going to be hard to carve itself a niche. That being said, if Voodoll were to be like its evo and be specially biased, it would be somewhat unique as it can become a potent special Fighting-type, which none of the previously mentioned Fighting-types have cornered the market on per se. This is a very interesting route as Voodoll may not look like a Fighting-type and it may have a lot of competition on the competitive side of things, but it could explore how a special Fighting-type could potentially thrive (or dive) in a LC-inspired metagame.

Fighting/Dark
This is arguably the "easy route" as its evolved form is this exact typing so it would make really good sense flavor-wise to just make Voodoll the same typing. This also, in my opinion, could be a pretty boring route since it would end up possibly being just a "mini-Voodoom". That being said, the LC metagame (and "little" mons in general) only have one other Dark/Fighting type in Scraggy (rip Pancham), leaving a lot of breathing room for Voodoll to potentially carve out a niche in the competitive scene, even moreso if it ends up being specially biased as Scraggy is physically biased.

tl;dr we have options, all three have pros and cons, but they each can provide an unique outlook on how Voodoll can shape itself as a Pokemon.

P.S. my vote as of right now has to go to either Normal/Dark or Fighting/Dark (leaning towards the latter though).
 
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I like Normal/Dark since Voodoll doesn't really strike me as a Fighting-type in the same way Voodoom does. It's worth noting that both Azurill and Swablu provide some precedent for Normal-types that change their primary typing upon evolution.

Other than that, I'd probably have to stick with Fighting/Dark as a second choice. Pure Fighting and Pure Dark don't really do it for me, and shoehorning any other typing besides Normal into the mix doesn't really seem to work with its design.
 
I really like the idea of Fighting/Dark simply because of the consistency with Voodoom's typing, which is also FIghting/Dark. The only Pokémon with a dual typing that change their primary upon evolution are Onix and Swablu. This is not the norm, but rather an exception.
 

jas61292

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Personally, I'm not a fan of normal type at all. It feels to me like people always want to find a way to have normal type on a prevo, even where it doesn't fit, just for the uniqueness of it. If a Pokemon doesn't fit its evos dual typing, and doesn't really fit with any other typing, then it should be single type, not part normal.

That being said, I disagree that Voodoll is somehow not like a fighting type, or at least any less so than its evolution. I see no reason to change typing at all here. And with primary type changes being so rare, and it looking decidedly Dark, Voodoom's Fighting/Dark combo is really the only type combo I find fitting.
 

Bughouse

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Voodoll's design is passive and not remotely threatening. It's literally sitting down. It's not like any other fighting type except maybe Stufful. I favor normal/dark.
 
I support Normal / Dark for Voodoll. A Normal-type is a fitting inclusion for the Voodoom line, in my opinion, as I believe that it pairs well with Dark to acknowledge the mundane qualities of a doll in addition to the witchcraft associated with Voodoo. We've already set precedent for a primary type change via Scratchet > Tomohawk, and I don't feel that Voodoll's suggested change is outlandish enough to warrant a redesign.
 
I'm in favor of either a pure Dark typing or a Normal/Dark typing. I don't think Voodoll is threatening enough, like Bughouse mentioned. At the same time, Voodoo isn't really normal per se, so I think pure Dark would work. If that can't happen, then Normal/Dark is fine.
 

LucarioOfLegends

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Don't see the normal nor fighting typing in this thing. I vouch for pure Dark. A voodoo doll is naturally a form of black magic, and is a cursed object. I think that fits far more than a Normal typing.
 
Id vouch for pure Dark, and if not that possibly Dark/Ghost. The Ghost part is just something that jumps out at me when I see the doll kind of slumped over, and compared to Voodoom it really jumps to life with the fighting spirit people have already mentioned. That and voodoo dolls are typically paranormal, but Dark could fall into that category too. Just something to throw at the wall to see if it sticks.
 
In my opinion, I think Dark and Normal/Dark are the best fit, but pure Dark beats out Normal/Dark.

1. It's Design- It doesn't look like a fighting type, plain and simple. Even though Voodoll is likely a special attacker like it's evolution Voodoom, almost all fighting type Pokemon have some form of fist or complex hand structure, and not a stub. The only bipedal fighting type Pokemon that doesn't follow this rule is Bewear, but it doesn't need fists because it attacks by hugging people. Even some special attackers, such as Tomohawk and Kerfluffle, have noticeable fists, but Voodoll Doesn't.

Now to possibly refute a few problems that having Voodoll be a pure dark typing causes.

1. What!? A Pre-Evolutions Primary type becomes the secondary type of the Evolution?! IMPOSSIBLE!- Keeping in mind the recent generations of Pokemon and CAP and some of the ideas they have, this idea isn't that farfetched, coming from a flavor standpoint

Now this probably the hardest thing to counter using only what we already have, so we have to go into the minds of the creators of Pokemon. A major example of this came from the sixth generation with Mega Aggron, who actually lost a typing upon Mega Evolution. "But this change is actually beneficial for Mega Aggron!" Yes that is correct, as the keeping this Pokemon pure Dark instead of Normal/Dark would actually more beneficial for Voodoll, at least from a flavor standpoint. Voodoll is a first evolution pokemon, meaning if it's in the wild, it will be even harder to survive against Fighting Type pokemon that could be nearby it's habitat.
If Voodoll is a Normal/Dark type pokemon, then it would gain a immunity to ghost (Which pure dark already resists), but also gain a 4x weakness to fighting types (Which pure dark is only 2x weak to).
 
Normal/Dark or Pure Dark
Cuz is just a "demoniatic" doll, and the normal make some of sentences of the culture and only dark make more competetive cuz is not to much weak to fighting however make a more viable pokemon
 

DHR-107

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Looks like we have our Slate.

Fighting/Dark
Normal/Dark
Dark

Poll will be going up shortly!
 
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