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This was brought on by the "Legendary Pokemon" thread.
Basically, the only Roleplay that currently has a capture element is TLR. Considering TLR has been open for well over a year now, its a bit distressing no other capture RP has been made available. I believe part of this is the capture formula used, as well as some inconsistency among ball costs.
What I want to discuss here is a normalization of the formula to deal with the fact ASB's HP ranges realistically from 80-120HP, and still incorporate some of the in-game capture rate formulas because they serve as an objective example of how easy or difficult it is to catch a Pokemon.
This is the current Data Audit Thread post on Capture Mechanics:
- - - - -
[a]Capture[/a]Pokemon Capture:
Major Change 10/09/2011: Capture Rates are now limited to a minimum of 7 and a Maximum of 150. Heal Balls have had their Capture Rate for >50% HP reduced to 2x. Pokemon at Full Health have a capture rate of 7.
So, I had this really nifty idea earlier today while I was thinking over a couple RPs I am in, and realized that there is a whole mechanic that we've to this day avoided in ASB: Pokemon capture. Where are the Poke Balls that we can purchase and use to capture Pokemon we've weakened in RPs? Well, after talking with Deck and fleshing out a really cool package for this, I've written this up. This is a tag-team submission with Deck's above, as obviously the capture mechanics are necessary in order for his RP above to work.
Pokemon Capture is something that interacts with all other RPs!
Mechanics
The basic premise of Pokemon Capture is that you purchase Poke Balls with CC from the prize claiming thread. Then, with Poke Balls, you can enter into any RP that has wild Pokemon, and capture them! Naturally, there are restrictions as to what can be captured.
Pokemon owned by NPC trainers in RPs cannot be captured, and Poke Balls cannot be used in trainer battles at all.
Legendary Pokemon cannot be captured. This list, since the qualifier 'legendary' is not generally obvious as to what it describes, is: Zapdos, Moltres, Articuno, Mewtwo, Mew, Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Celebi, Ho-Oh, Lugia, Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Latias, Latios, Groudon, Kyogre, Rayquaza, Deoxys, Jirachi, Darkrai, Cresselia, Azelf, Uxie, Mesprit, Manaphy, Phione, Heatran, Regigigas, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Shaymin, Arceus, Victini, Terrakion, Cobalion, Virizion, Keldeo, Tornadus, Thundurus, Landorus, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Meloetta, and Genesect.
Anything that is considered a 'boss' or 'mini-boss' of an RP cannot be captured.
This list of uncapturable Pokemon may be ignored for certain RPs that are designed with catching very high power and even legendary Pokemon in mind.
Those are the Pokemon that cannot be captured. Except in the case of trainer battles, where Poke Balls cannot be used, if a Poke Ball is used in a battle against an uncapturable Pokemon, it will simply destroy the Poke Ball instead of even going inside for a split second. That would suggest that you shouldn't waste your Poke Balls in such a manner!
It's not all restrictions, however. There are some cool things about capturing Pokemon through this RP addendum:
You can capture evolved Pokemon.
You can capture Pokemon that know special moves.
You can capture pretty much anything else you encounter.
When you capture a Pokemon, you treat it as if you were buying the Pokemon from the prize claim thread. If you captured a Pikachu, for instance, assume it is the most basic Pikachu that you can acquire. It has 4/9 EC, 0 MC, and 0 DC, all of the level-up moves up to Level 25, 5 egg moves of your choice, 5 BW TMs of your choice, and any specialty moves that it had in the RP you caught it in but you wouldn't normally get. So let's say that Pikachu used Surf in the RP, then when you catch it you would get the Pikachu I listed above and then Surf on it as a special extra move. Furthermore, since you battle the Pokemon and make an impression upon it when you capture it, when you claim captured wild Pokemon, you may choose both their natures and Hidden Power types. When you battle them before catching them, however, you may find that their Hidden Power type is different than what you make it; that's just the effect you have on a Pokemon when you capture it! Furthermore, some RPs will allow you to keep the captured Pokemon with you during the RP in reserve, though this is on a per-RP basis.
When you move to capture a Pokemon, all attacks suspend and the trainer throws a Poke Ball at the target. Poke Balls will only work when there is one opposing Pokemon left, as other Pokemon will intercept the Poke Ball and cause it to fail. If a capture fails, the targeted Pokemon breaks free and uses a Chill-like move, increasing their energy by twelve (12) while ignoring sleep, confusion, paralysis, or other effects. If the targeted Pokemon gets back to one-hundred (100) energy in this way, they will have a round to attack your Pokemon without retaliation.
Capture Formula
ASB uses the exact same capture formula as in-game, except at the upper and lower extremities. The minimum value for a Pokemon's Capture Rate is 7, while the maximum is 150. This means that ASB will also use the same capture rates for the Pokemon, as listed on websites like Serebii or Veekun. Pikachu has a capture rate of 190, for example, which is lowered to 150. This also means that the type of Poke Ball you buy matters, as it has a Ball Rate that factors into the formula. Here's a crash course in Pokemon capturing math. The only difference in ASB is that since you can inflict multiple status effects on a Pokemon, the 'status number' in the capture formula is equal to the single highest status number of all status inflicted on the Pokemon, not the addition of status numbers.
Finally, Pokemon at their full health have a capture rate of 7, regardless of their ordinary capture rate.
Long Form Calculation:
Long Form Calculation said:
Let's say we try and catch a 5 HP Lillipup with a Pokeball. Lillipup's in-game Catch Rate is 255 - which is lowered to 150 in ASB.
SUMMARY: Without Status or balls with stronger capture rates, it's much, much harder to catch a Pokemon in ASB. Fortunately, unlike in-game where you are limited to four moves, your Pokemon should have access to a status move almost without exception. If this Lilipup were Paralyzed (or healthy and you used a Great Ball), it's catch rate would be 84.6%, and if it were Asleep (or it was healthy and you used an Ultra Ball), it's catch rate would be 112.8%.
Like in the game, there are a ton of Poke Balls with varying capture rates based on certain conditions. The list below includes all of the items that this addendum to RPs would provide for purchase in the prize claiming thread and what they do with what special conditions. All Poke Balls are available for purchase except the Master Ball, which can only be rewarded for special accomplishments with Deck Knight's approval. The listed prices are the prices for buying five (5) Poke Balls of that type.
[a]PokeBalls[/a]
Poke Ball: A Poke Ball used to capture Pokemon.
Cost: 3 | Catch Rate: x1
Great Ball: A great Poke Ball used to capture Pokemon.
Cost: 4 | Catch Rate: x1.5
Ultra Ball: An ultra Poke Ball used to capture Pokemon.
Cost: 5 | Catch Rate: x2
Master Ball: A legendary Poke Ball that will capture any Pokemon without fail.
Cost: — | Catch Rate: —
Heal Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon above 50% of their maximum HP. In certain roleplays where a Pokemon can be used as soon as it is captured, the Heal Ball heals them to full HP and energy when captured.
Cost: 5 | Catch Rate: 1x, 2x (>50% HP)
Premier Ball: An elaborate Poke Ball that grants the captured Pokemon one (1) EC, MC, or DC of the trainer's choice when captured.
Cost: 5 | Catch Rate: 1x
Luxury Ball: An extravagant Poke Ball with a reduced catch rate, but that grants the captured Pokemon two (2) EC, MC, or DC of the trainer's choice when captured.
Cost: 5 | Catch Rate: 0.5x
Cherish Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against legendary Pokemon.
Level Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against evolved Pokemon.
Cost: 5 | Catch Rate: x1 (First Stage or Unevolving Pokemon), x2 (Second of Two Stages), x3 (Third of Three Stages)
Love Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon that are affected by an attraction to one of your Pokemon.
Cost: 5 | Catch Rate: 1x, 4x (Attracted Pokemon)
Lure Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon that you surprised or trapped either with an attack or a strategy.
Cost: 5 | Catch Rate: 1x, 3x (Trapped Pokemon)
Moon Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against any Pokemon in the fairy egg group.
Cost: 5 | Catch Rate: 1x, 3x (Fairy Egg Group)
Nest Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Flying-type Pokemon or Pokemon in the presence of family members.
Cost: 5 | Catch Rate: 1x, 3x (Flying-type and those with nearby family)
Net Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Bug- and Water-type Pokemon.
Cost: 5 | Catch Rate: 1x, 3x (Bug- and Water-type)
Park Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon found in human civilization, but that are still wild.
Cost: 5 | Catch Rate: 1x, 3x (In human civilization)
Quick Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon when thrown earlier in combat. Quick Ball always uses the adjusted Base Capture Rate of the Pokemon, even if the target is at full HP. (e.g. min 7, max 150)
Cost: 5 | Catch Rate: 5x, diminishes 1x for each round of combat to a minimum of 1x (e.g. it's 4x at the start of Round 2, 3x at the start of round 3, etc.)
Repeat Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon you have captured at some point in the past, including those species that you used to have but either traded or evolved.
What I would like to do is revamp the formula and the ball descriptions, as well as the costs to make them on a per-ball basis. This might make them more expensive in the long run, but it allows us to tweak the power more.
I'm going to copy my post regarding Poke Balls from the previous thread, as well as a couple of choice posts from other users. I encourage others to do the same if they're so inclined!
The specific numbers contained herein are not relevant; just the spirit of the mechanics.
TL(;D)R: Current, RNG-based capture sucks. Instead, thrown Poke Balls deduct from a target's "Capture Counter," and the target is captured at 0. Pokemon have an initial Capture Counter of 300 minus their in-game capture rate, giving a value between 45 (easy) and 297 (hard). The "capture damage" formula would be:
(Ball Strength - FLOOR(Target HP * 0.1) ) * Status Modifier
______________________________________________________________________________________
There's no reason to use the in-game capture formula at all. It's convoluted and difficult to use from memory. Flat values would be much easier.
We'll start from the top. By this search, we can see that in-game capture rates vary from 255 (absurdly easy) to 3 (absurdly difficult). Scrap the current artificial caps, we'll work with these for the moment and make new caps if necessary.
The main component of Objection's proposal is giving the target Pokemon "Capture HP," that balls deal "damage" to. This means that difficulty derives from a high value in Capture HP -- the opposite of capture rates. The answer is simple: Every Pokemon's "Capture HP" is equal to a flat value, minus their in-game capture rate. It has to be higher than 255, however, otherwise some Pokemon will start the battle captured. I'll use 300 as an arbitrary baseline:
45 CHP
65 CHP
100 CHP
150 CHP
180 CHP
210 CHP
255 CHP
285 CHP
297 CHP
So we have a minimum of 45 and a maximum of 297, with a rough idea of how the stat scales. Poke Balls will subtract from a number not unlike this one. The ball that reduces this value to 0 or below is the one that capture the Pokemon. Easy and luck-free!
However, capture is supposed to be more difficult against a healthy Pokemon. That's easy to implement in a flat and easily-remembered way, as well. The three factors that affect capture success are 1) the target Pokemon's remaining HP, 2) the target Pokemon's major status ailments, and 3) the strength of the Poke Ball used. Let's break these down one at a time.
1) Target Remaining HP
Looking at the in-game capture formula, we can see that a Pokemon at 1% HP is roughly three times more likely to be caught than a normal one. This presents the directly-reproduced method: Multiply the capture damage by twice the target's percent missing HP. But that's an obnoxious and unwieldy ruling. Let's look at some alternatives.
Sticking to missing HP gives us several options. We could perform addition. Each X points of HP the target has lost strengthens the capture attempt by 1 (increases capture damage by 1). This means throwing balls right out of the gate isn't out of the question -- you're still getting the ball's base value, at least. But why focus on the Pokemon's missing HP? This makes Pokemon with more HP to lose marginally easier to capture. It's also confusing intuitively to have the target strengthening attacks against it. Better to have the target weaken incoming damage with their fortitude.
The easiest method of making HP weaken capture damage is to subtract it. The target Pokemon's remaining HP reduces the strength of the Pokeball in some fashion. Let's say each 10 HP the mon has reduces capture damage by 1. In other words, from 0-9 HP, the ball is fully effective. From 10-19, the ball deals 1 less damage, and so on. This is my preferred method -- it's very fast to perform mentally (just look at the HP's tens place!) and it's easy to predict. It does make bulkier Pokemon harder to capture, but that's not a major concern. By the same token, it makes evolutions marginally harder to capture than prevolutions with the same capture rate, which is fine. It makes Shedinja supremely easy to capture, but no one cares about that.
I'll assume the "10 HP negates 1 capture damage" method outlined here for the rest of this rant. Under that system, a full-health Jirachi (100 HP) strips 10 damage from balls thrown at it. That can be rather significant -- if a ball deals 20 damage, leaving Jirachi at full HP requires twice as many balls as wearing it down HP-wise first. This is fine and desirable.
2) Target's Major Status Ailments
In-cartridge, the major status ailments multiply the success rate of capture by x1.5, while sleep and freeze multiply by x2.5 as of Generation V. There's two major concerns as this relates to ASB and to this capture mechanic. One, how to handle multiple major status ailments (impossible in the cartridges); and two, whether it applies before or after HP-based reduction.
On one hand, retaining the current convention of using only the strongest status multiplier is fine. It strongly rewards using harder-to-maintain ailments (sleep and freeze) over longer-lasting effects like paralysis, as was probably intended. Allowing the multipliers to stack either additively (x1.5 -> x2.0 -> x.2.5) or multiplicatively (x1.5 -> x2.25 -> x3.375) both require Ball strength to take such methods into account, invalidating TLR teams with less status infliction methods.
Deciding to apply the status modifier before or after HP mitigation is trickier. Placing it before makes it stronger, generally. (20 * 1.5 - 10) = 20, while (20 - 10) * 1.5 = 15. Unless Ball strength is rather low (so low that it can't tear down 297 CHP in a reasonable number of rounds), calculating status before mitigation makes Pokemon easier to catch on average.
Let's look at specific numbers. I've been using 20 as a throwaway number to represent a standard Poke Ball. A paralyzed Zubat has 45 CHP and a capture mitigation ("catch defense"?) of 9. Calculating status first, a Poke Ball weakens Zubat by (20 * 1.5 - 9) 21 CHP, catching him with three tosses. Calculating mitigation first, Zubat is weakened by (20 - 9) * 1.5 - 15.5 CHP and is still caught in three tries. So there's no real difference at full health when paralyzed. It follows, then that there will be no real difference when Zubat falls below 10 HP -- 20 * 1.5 is the same as 20 * 1.5, in other words.
If we put Zubat to sleep, however, this changes. Calculating status first, a sleeping Zubat is weakened by (20 * 2.5 - 9) 41 CHP, nearly catching him in a single attempt! If Zubat is asleep and below 50 HP, he's caught instantly -- a dramatic change in effectiveness. Calculating mitigation first, Zubat will be weakened by (20 - 9) * 2.5 = 27.5 CHP, a two-ball attempt and a mere fraction of the full 50 CHP Zubat would lose if he were under 10 HP. Zubat's measly 9 capture defense reduces the CHP loss by 23.5 -- more than an entire Ball's worth.
Calculating the status multiplier after applying mitigation, and only using the highest status modifier among the target's major ailments, is what I will assume for the rest of this tirade.
3) Poke Ball Strength
This is where it all comes together. I've been using the figure "20" to represent a standard Pokeball, but realistically that's a bit high. Let's look at multiples of five, from 10 to 35, to see where the best numbers lie for Poke Ball, Great Ball, and Ultra Ball. For ease of comparison, I'll use Maractus, Tropius, Rhyhorn, and Darkrai, who have varying CHP and all share 100 max HP in ASB (and thus share a matching catch defense number).
WARNING: Lots of numbers inside these hide tags! In addition, while parsing this data, bear in mind that only two balls can be thrown each round, and that Poke Balls are currently purchased for 2-5 CC in sets of five (that is, each toss costs 0.4 to 1 CC).
10 Ball Strength:
100 / 100 HP, No Status - 0 Capture Damage --
That's a lot of information to parse through. Where to start?
From the top: 35 strength is obscene for any ball. With no prior capture attempts, a sleeping and wounded Darkrai is taken in a mere two rounds of throwing. With 50 more HP, Darkrai lasts but one round more. This sort of power should be reserved for only the strongest or most specific Poke Balls.
From the bottom: 10 strength can do work! In ideal conditions, it can catch a 45 CHP mon in a single round, which makes it just powerful enough for most common Lackies: Zubat, Spheal, Stunky, and Gulpin are examples of Pokemon who, while not particularly desirable outside of a TLR, might be appropriate cannon fodder for the TLR run itself. A Heal Ball with this level of strength would see use to pad out the challenger's team before delving deeper.
Most Guardians will have between 150 and 210 CHP, and won't be threatened by a 10-power Ball any time soon. It takes a 20- or 25-strength ball to threaten them with a reasonable three-round capture (that is, in less than ideal conditions). This is a solid midrange for type-focused balls especially.
Where does that leave the individual balls? Well, starting with the basic set:
Poke Ball: 15 Strength
Great Ball: 20 Strength
Ultra Ball: 25 Strength
Master Ball: 310 Strength
These are fine. Poke Balls are cheap, efficient ways to secure Lackeys and other low-priority targets, but they stumble when the pressure's on and every round counts. Ultra Balls will likely form the backbone of most trainer's arsenal, providing solid capture rating on anything they might come across while being a bit more expensive than any given specialty Ball. Great Balls are less efficient than either of the other two types, but can be made CC-efficient to offset this.
Currently, the highest HP a 297 CHP can have is Giratina. Giratina has 125 HP at maximum, meaning it takes (12 + 297) = 309 capture strength to snare it in a single toss. However, 309 is not a multiple of five.
Notably, a 1 HP sleeping Giratina suffers 775 CHP loss from a Master Ball.
In the hide tag below, I'll assign Capture Strength to balls based on the ones in this post. I'll preserve their current effects for now, and provide reasoning for their assigned strengths.
Although I don't list CC prices, assume that better balls cost more CC and take up more space in your backpack than more specialized balls! You have more room in your backpack for Net Balls than you do for Heal Balls, in other words.
Heal Ball: 5 Strength
Since they're used to fully heal the captured Pokemon they get to be a bit weaker that Poke Balls, but their utility will ensure they still see use. In this system, they are best purchased sparingly and used to last-hit the target.
Premier Ball: 10 Strength
Luxury Ball: 5 Strength
These two balls grant EC, MC, or DC to the captured Pokemon; the Luxury Ball grants more than the Premier. Another ball for enhancing the target, this fits into the same niche as Heal Balls and thus warrents reduced strength.
Cherish Ball: 5 Strength, or 30 against Legendary Pokemon
Boasting the ability to provide great aid in the climax of a TLR, the Cherish Ball is certainly very desirable for any legend-aspiring Trainer. To offset this, making the use of Cherish Balls on anything else unpalatable leads to an interesting trade-off. Certainly, they're valuable assets at the end of the TLR run, but they take up valuable CC and space until then that might be better served catching Pokemon to get you to the end of the run in the first place.
Dream Ball: 10 Strength or 20 against sleeping targets
Also known as the Overkill Ball. With Sleep having such a large multiplier anyway, there's no reason to allow a ball dedicated to it to exceed the already-present Ultra Ball. Instead, I picture this as something that can be bought cheaply in bulk for Sleep-centric teams to abuse, without making such teams overpowering.
Dive Ball: 10 Strength, or 25 in aquatic arenas (surfing, underwater, etc.)
Dusk Ball: 10 Strength, or 25 in low-light conditions (certain caves, etc.)
Lure Ball: 10 Strength, or 25 against trapped targets (ambushes, etc.)
Park Ball: 10 Strength, or 25 in urban conditions (cities, villages, etc.)
Safari Ball: 10 Strength, or 25 in dense foliage (very tall grass, forest, etc.)
A Ball that derives power from the TLR itself instead of a challenger's decisions isn't too dangerous. Arenas that have an abundance of water, or a sylvan setting, or so on become a bit easier to operate in, should the player choose to specialize in these balls. They become more like Poke Balls or more like Cherish Balls depending on the TLR, at the whim of that dungeon's designer. TLRs with wildly varying terrain discourage these balls, but they're still valid if the trainer is targeting a specific encounter.
Fast Ball: 10 Strength, or 25 against targets with 100 or more speed.
Heavy Ball: 10 Strength, or 20 if the target is WC 4 or more, or 25 if the target is WC 6 or more, or 30 if the target is WC 8 or more.
Strange sorts of balls that lend themselves to the pursuit of particular species. Again, being a specialty ball makes it simple to plan for -- a TLR designer might fill a musketeer's dungeon with slower, bulkier targets to weaken a Fast Ball; or fast targets to encourage it. Overall, not particularly dangerous.
Friend Ball: 10 Strength, or 25 if the current thread is a double TLR.
I'm... not sure what this is supposed to mean????? It's currently listed as "Catch Rate: 1x, 3x (With another trainer companion)". Maybe it can be remade to gain strength when the Trainer has several empty bench slots, or something.
Level Ball: 10 Strength, or 30 if the target has a pre-evolution.
Love Ball: 10 Strength, or 30 if the target is infatuated with one of the user's team members.
Moon Ball: 10 Strength, or 30 if one of the target's Egg Groups is Fairy.
These Balls target demographics of Pokemon that generally aren't legendary, and therefore aren't the main goal of the TLR run. Therefore, we get to kick them up a notch -- this puts them above an Ultra Ball when taking on their specific targets. Some Legendaries, such as the Latis, are vulnerable to this type of ball, but that can be written off as a quirk of that particular TLR, because this won't be very frequent.
Nest Ball: 10 Strength, or 25 if the target is Flying-type or is a nest encounter.
Net Ball: 10 Strength, or 25 if the target is Bug- or Water-type.
These type-targeting balls are dangerous, because TLRs tend to carry a strong typing theme throughout their length. This category of ball becomes a very efficient thing to stock up on for these dungeons, and significantly lower their CC requirement when applicable. These balls may need adjusting in strength or price before they're considered balanced!
Repeat Ball: 10 Strength, or 40 if the trainer has ever owned a member of the target's species.
Whoa! Honestly, even with a crushingly strong rating of 40, I doubt these will see a lot of use. I suppose if a trainer has the gall to repeatedly clear a TLR hoping to build up a stock of a particular Legendary and trade them off or something, these will require some revision. However, the prohibitive difficulty of TLR and its inherent CC cost should do something to prevent that.
Quick Ball: 10% of the target's CHP (rounded down) Strength
Sort of a curveball here, but it certainly serves its purpose of being strongest on the first throw! Highly desirable against Legendaries, for sure, but not worth bringing once one or two of these have been thrown, so I doubt this will be an issue.
Timer Ball: 10 Strength, plus 5 times the number of rounds that have passed previously, to a maximum of 40.
The inverse of the Quick Ball. Rather than futzing with a missing-CHP percentage or whatever, I simply went with a round counter, which is easy enough for both the ref and the player to parse quickly. It takes six rounds for these bad boys to wind up fully, but having a couple of these on-hand can be a lifesaver when it comes down to the wire in an intense TLR-endgame fight.
Sport Ball: ???
These need remaking. No ball should be a mandatory 50% of a trainer's backback, with the exception of perhaps Ultra Balls.
The following is a chat log snipped this morning. zarator raised concerns that only certain types of Poke Ball would see use, making other types obsolete:
[05:28] <Lou> looking for chances to trade ultra balls for niche balls like net
[05:28] <Lou> in order to save precious bag space
[05:29] <Lou> you'll end up going in with a heal ball or two; this or that specifically targeted ball; a quick or two for the boss, a heavy for the boss; a few ultras to act as glue, a few cherish balls once the boss is statused, and so on
[05:30] <Lou> in addition enough healing items to feel comfortable
[05:30] <Lou> it's teambuilding for your bag
[05:30] <Lou> even with species clause off; colossoil x6 isn't the best possible team
[05:30] <Lou> to use an analogy
[05:30] <IAR> there is a species clause in tlrs
[05:30] <IAR> ?
[05:30] <Lou> and
[05:31] <Lou> there's one big overarching point to this
[05:31] <Lou> this makes building your backpack FRAUGHT with strategic decisions and thus
[05:31] <Lou> chances to make mistakes
[05:31] <Lou> that's very important
[05:32] <Lou> too many heal balls choke your backpack and leave you dry on items; too few leave you without valid meat walls
[05:32] <Lou> does it seem better now?
[05:32] <IAR> lou wants tlr to be focused on victory through the same thing zar wants his raids to be focused on victory through
[05:32] <IAR> planning & skill
[05:32] <Lou> that's
[05:32] <Lou> a very good way to put it
I looked over the proposal and I made a few changes to the poke-balls.
Cost Information: Cost is for four of the selected ball type.
Standard Balls:
Poke Ball: A Poke Ball used to capture Pokemon.
Cost: 2 | Ball Strength: 15
Great Ball: A great Poke Ball used to capture Pokemon.
Cost: 3 | Ball Strength: 21
Ultra Ball: An ultra Poke Ball used to capture Pokemon.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 25
Premier Ball: An elaborate Poke Ball that grants the captured Pokemon one (1) EC, MC, or DC of the trainer's choice when captured.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 12
Luxury Ball: An extravagant Poke Ball with a reduced catch rate, but that grants the captured Pokemon two (2) EC, MC, or DC of the trainer's choice when captured.
Cost: 6 | Ball Strength: 8
Master Ball: A legendary Poke Ball that will capture any Pokemon without fail.
Cost: — | Ball Strength: 310
Low-Cost Balls:
Cherish Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against legendary Pokemon.
Level Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate if your Pokemon are more evolved than the target Pokemon. (Single Stage Pokemon are considered Second Stage, First Stage Pokemon out of Two or Three Stage Pokemon are still considered First Stage.)
Cost: 3 | Ball Strength: 30 (One Pokemon Two Stages Greater than Target), 20 (One Pokemon One Stage Greater than Target), 10 (Target Stage Equal)
Nest Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against weaker opponents.
Cost: 3 | Ball Strength: 30 (First Stage or Baby Pokemon), 15 (Second of Two Stages or Single Stage Pokemon), 10 (Third of Three Stages)
Mid-Cost Balls:
Dive Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon in the Water 3 Egg Group.
Moon Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against any Pokemon that evolve by or from Moon Stone, or are in the Fairy Egg Group
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 10, 30 (Pokemon that evolve from or by Moon Stone, Fairy Egg Group)
Net Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon in the Bug or Water-1 Egg Groups.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 10, 30 (Bug or Water 1 Egg Groups)
Park Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon found in City or Industrial Arena.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 10, 30 (In City or Industrial Arenas)
Safari Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon fought in tall grass.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 10, 30 (In tall grass)
Sport Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon fought in desert areas.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 10, 30 (In Desert areas)
Premium Balls:
Heal Ball: A Poke Ball that heals its target for 50 HP and 50 EN when successful.
Cost: 8 | Ball Strength: 8
Quick Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased ball strength against Pokemon when thrown earlier in combat.
Cost: 8 | Ball Strength: 40, diminishes by 5 for each round of combat to a minimum of 5 (e.g. it's 35 at the start of Round 2, 30 at the start of round 3, etc.)
Repeat Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon you have captured at some point in the past, including those species that you used to have but either traded or evolved.
Timer Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate based on the duration of the battle.
Cost: 8 | Ball Strength: 5, increases by 5 for each round of combat to a maximum of 40 (e.g it's 10 at the start of Round 2, 15 at the start of Round 3, etc.)
Most rebalancing is done on Sport Ball (which I assigned to Deserts), and I adjusted the ball costs and the number of balls per purchase. Nest Ball was changed to reflect its in-game effect, while Level Ball was similarly altered. Where Level Ball benefits you i you bring a fully evolved Three Stage Pokemon, Nest Ball is useful primarily for basic or baby opponents.
As far as TLR Stuff, I'm thinking 40CC for a combined maximum budget (Balls and Healing Items). That should give people more than enough space to be strategic with their ball choices and items.
Look at the costs, they are for batches of 4 Pokeballs each, so 8CC buys 4 Heal Balls, meaning if you for some reason wanted to spend all 40 CC on Heal Balls, you'd have 20 Heal Balls. (4*5 = 20)
I initially had it at two, then decided to up it to four and make some more price edits. It's still less than the 5 it was, but honestly I thought that was a bit excessive and I think four is the right balancing point between cost and # received.
Hmm, I think the Dream Ball either has a typo or is a bit too weak. If it's at 20 Capture rate when the opponent is asleep, then Great Balls or even Ultra Balls would be a much more cost efficient way to capture a Pokemon that is asleep.
Giving it thought, I think a Sleep multiplier of x2.0 instead of x2.5 should be considered. There's no reason for a condition that, while rarer, is so easily maintained to have such a profound impact--especially if it's going to have its own dedicated ball. Freeze can remain x2.5 or even jump to x3.0; it won't make the biggest difference. We'll get, at most, one or two "I got a lucky Freeze!" success stories, not some icy epidemic.
Some discussion should be had on the "Only isolated targets may be captured," mechanic. As it stands currently, you may only initiate a capture phase when there's no more than one valid target standing. Instead of this rule; perhaps the presence of additional enemies weakens the strength of thrown balls, or allows enemy capture counters to regenerate at a given pace?
When you move to capture a Pokemon, all attacks suspend and the trainer throws a Poke Ball at the target. Poke Balls will only work when there is one opposing Pokemon left, as other Pokemon will intercept the Poke Ball and cause it to fail. If a capture fails, the targeted Pokemon breaks free and uses a Chill-like move, increasing their energy by twelve (12) while ignoring sleep, confusion, paralysis, or other effects. If the targeted Pokemon gets back to one-hundred (100) energy in this way, they will have a round to attack your Pokemon without retaliation.
This is basically the only part of the current system that I foresee problems with. (Basically, I'll be replacing this entire paragraph for Adventure Battles, where the wild Poke'mon keep attacking even as balls are thrown, and one ball is thrown (per trainer) an action, instead of a round.)
Some discussion should be had on the "Only isolated targets may be captured," mechanic. As it stands currently, you may only initiate a capture phase when there's no more than one valid target standing. Instead of this rule; perhaps the presence of additional enemies weakens the strength of thrown balls, or allows enemy capture counters to regenerate at a given pace?
And the bolded part in LouisCyphre's post here is the biggest problem. Currently, you can only attempt to catch a Pokémon when there is only the target you are trying to catch. While the main games prevent capturing a Poke'mon when there is an ally of it on the field, there is precidence: the GameCube games, Colosseum and XD: Gale of Darkness. In those games, you CAN use a Poke'ball while there are two enemy Pokémon on the field. And with the sheer number of Shadow Pokémon on the field in XD, I think you're expected to.
In the event a Poke'ball is thrwon while there are multiple enemies on the field, there are options, I'd think. If a Poke'mon was protective of a partner, and its partner was targetted, it might bodyblock the ball, risking being caught instead of its friend (so you could waste your balls catching the wrong Poke'mon). It could make things more difficult by trying to get its friend out of the ball before it get caught. And then there's the fact that if you're busy trying to catch its partner, you can't really defend against its own attacks...
As I said, options. Even without altering catch odds.
We are changing the fundamental formula from its current, luck-based iteration to a capture damage formula.
Capture of Pokemon while allies are in still play will also be allowed. The new formula is as follows:
When Cumulative Capture Damage > Target Capture HP (CHP), Capture occurs.
Capture Damage (per attempt) = (Ball Strength - (FLOOR((Target Current HP * 0.1) + Max EN Modifier)) * Major Status Modifier) - Outside Capture Resistance
Formula Legend: Ball Strength = Strength of Pokeball Used Target Current HP = Target's Current HP Max EN Modifier = 10 (flat) if Target EN = 100, Otherwise 0. Major Status Modifier is derived by the following table:
(Stronger status modifiers will override weaker ones.)
No Status: x1
Burn: x1.5
Poison: x1.5
Paralysis x1.5
Sleep x2.0
Freeze x2.5
Outside Capture Resistance = (Calculate per target ally individually and sum) FLOOR((Target Allied Pokemon Current HP * 0.1)) + Target Allied Pokemon Max EN Modifier.
Basically you can use the same examples as provided by Lou, the only additions are the EN Modifier and the Outside Capture Resistance (OCR). The EN Modifier basically means its very hard to capture a target at full energy because it docks 10 base power off of the ball strength before the modifier, while OCR makes it harder to capture opponents that still have active allies. Fortunately, OCR applies after the major status modifier, so the interference is only noticeable against very healthy allies. OCR means trying to capture a Pokemon with a 90 HP / 100 EN ally out of the gate is stupid, as the OCR value for such an opponent is 19 deducted off Ball Strength * Status.
To compensate for this, the ball strength of the balls will be increased slightly across the board, with a more significant increase in power to Quick Ball and Master Ball. Basically you need to take 50 HP off of an allied Pokemon in order for the balance between faster captures. Refs have the advantage in that they can often block a capture attempt just by Chilling back to full EN on a non-targeted Pokemon to buff up the OCR value.
Cost Information: Cost is for four of the selected ball type.
Standard Balls:
Poke Ball: A Poke Ball used to capture Pokemon.
Cost: 2 | Ball Strength: 18
Great Ball: A great Poke Ball used to capture Pokemon.
Cost: 3 | Ball Strength: 24
Ultra Ball: An ultra Poke Ball used to capture Pokemon.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 30
Premier Ball: An elaborate Poke Ball that grants the captured Pokemon one (1) EC, MC, or DC of the trainer's choice when captured.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 15
Luxury Ball: An extravagant Poke Ball with a reduced catch rate, but that grants the captured Pokemon two (2) EC, MC, or DC of the trainer's choice when captured.
Cost: 6 | Ball Strength: 12
Master Ball: A legendary Poke Ball that will capture any Pokemon without fail. Master Ball ignores the Max EN Modifier and Outside Capture Resistance variables.
Cost: — | Ball Strength: 310
Low-Cost Balls:
Cherish Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against legendary Pokemon.
Level Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate if your Pokemon are more evolved than the target Pokemon. (Single Stage Pokemon are considered Second Stage, First Stage Pokemon out of Two or Three Stage Pokemon are still considered First Stage.)
Cost: 3 | Ball Strength: 36 (One Pokemon Two Stages Greater than Target), 21 (One Pokemon One Stage Greater than Target), 15 (Target Stage Equal)
Nest Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against weaker opponents.
Cost: 3 | Ball Strength: 36 (First Stage or Baby Pokemon), 18 (Second of Two Stages or Single Stage Pokemon), 15 (Third of Three Stages)
Mid-Cost Balls:
Dive Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon in the Water 3 Egg Group.
Moon Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against any Pokemon that evolve by or from Moon Stone, or are in the Fairy Egg Group
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 15, 36 (Pokemon that evolve from or by Moon Stone, Fairy Egg Group)
Net Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon in the Bug or Water-1 Egg Groups.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 15, 36 (Bug or Water 1 Egg Groups)
Park Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon found in City or Industrial Arena.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 15, 36 (In City or Industrial Arenas)
Safari Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon fought in tall grass.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 15, 36 (In tall grass)
Sport Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon fought in desert areas.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 15, 36 (In Desert areas)
Premium Balls:
Heal Ball: A Poke Ball that heals its target for 50 HP and 50 EN when successful.
Cost: 8 | Ball Strength: 10
Quick Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased ball strength against Pokemon when thrown earlier in combat. Quick Ball ignores the Outside Capture Resistance variable.
Cost: 10 | Ball Strength: 50, diminishes by 10 for each round of combat to a minimum of 5 (e.g. it's 40 at the start of Round 2, 30 at the start of round 3, etc.)
Repeat Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon you have captured at some point in the past, including those species that you used to have but either traded or evolved. Repeat Ball ignores the Max EN Modifier variable.
Timer Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate based on the duration of the battle. Timer Ball ignores the Max EN Modifier variable.
Cost: 10 | Ball Strength: 5, increases by 5 for each round of combat to a maximum of 40 (e.g it's 10 at the start of Round 2, 15 at the start of Round 3, etc.)
Additional updates may be forthcoming as TLR gets updated and re-codified.
I'd still recommend bumping Sleep down to x2.0; since it's very easy to maintain with a team of three or even just a single inducer with ally support (Telekinesis, Sweet Scent, etc.). I was mistaken to treat Sleep as difficult to inflict.
If I'm not mistaken, the target being at full energy would only dock 1 off of the ball's strength, since FLOOR((Target Current HP + 10) * 0.1) = FLOOR(Target Current HP * 0.1 + 10 * 0.1) = FLOOR(Target Current HP * 0.1 + 1).
Should that EN modifier be moved outside of the * 0.1?
Quick question: If a battle has two partner Pokemon (like a nest), then how does the formula work? Does the EN modifier become 20 and the Current HP become much bigger?
If I'm not mistaken, the target being at full energy would only dock 1 off of the ball's strength, since FLOOR((Target Current HP + 10) * 0.1) = FLOOR(Target Current HP * 0.1 + 10 * 0.1) = FLOOR(Target Current HP * 0.1 + 1).
Should that EN modifier be moved outside of the * 0.1?
Yes, actually. I'll move it ahead of the formula for HP-based resistance.
Maxim said:
Quick question: If a battle has two partner Pokemon (like a nest), then how does the formula work? Does the EN modifier become 20 and the Current HP become much bigger?
It's calculated on an individual basis, so if you had a Pokemon you were trying to capture Round 1 for some reason and both its allies had 90 HP and 100 EN, the total outside capture resistance would be 19 for the first ally (HP / 10 + Max EN Mod), 19 for the second ally (HP / 10 + Max EN Mod), and 19 for the target of capture.
The only difference would be, say you were using an Ultra Ball against a Sleeping target, it'd be 30 - 19 (11) * 2 (status modifier) [22 total] And then you subtract OCR, which would be 38 (19 + 19). So an Ultra Ball in that situation wouldn't do any CHP damage.
If the target and one ally had less than 100 EN but the other had full EN, it'd be 30 - 9 (21) * 2 [42] and then subtract OCR, which would be 9 for one ally and 19 for the other (28 total), so the CHP damage would be 14.
It'd be better for optics (read: less intimidating to new players) if we represented the formula as steps instead of in long-form, but I have no immediate concerns. There are a lot of possible issues with numerical balance, but those are all bridges we can burn when we get to them.
I the Great and Powerful Oz Deck Knight declare this to be the new Capture Mechanics: Capture Mechanics:
Capture Mechanics follow a formula based on "Capture HP" and the number of Pokemon surrounding/defending the target to be captured.
Capture of Pokemon while its allies are in still play will is allowed at the discretion of the RP. The formula is as follows:
When Cumulative Capture Damage > Target Capture HP (CHP), Capture occurs.
Capture Damage (per attempt) = (Ball Strength - FLOOR(Target Current HP / 10 + Max EN Modifier)) * Major Status Modifier - Outside Capture Resistance
Formula Legend: Ball Strength = Strength of Pokeball Used Target Current HP = Target's Current HP Max EN Modifier = 10 (flat) if Target EN = 100, Otherwise 0. Major Status Modifier is derived by the following table:
(Stronger status modifiers will override weaker ones.)
No Status: x1
Burn: x1.5
Poison: x1.5
Paralysis x1.5
Sleep x2.0
Freeze x2.5
Outside Capture Resistance = (Calculate per target ally individually and sum) FLOOR(Target Allied Pokemon Current HP / 10) + Target Allied Pokemon Max EN Modifier.
Cost Information: Cost is for four of the selected ball type.
Standard Balls:
Poke Ball: A Poke Ball used to capture Pokemon.
Cost: 2 | Ball Strength: 18
Great Ball: A great Poke Ball used to capture Pokemon.
Cost: 3 | Ball Strength: 24
Ultra Ball: An ultra Poke Ball used to capture Pokemon.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 30
Premier Ball: An elaborate Poke Ball that grants the captured Pokemon one (1) EC, MC, or DC of the trainer's choice when captured.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 15
Luxury Ball: An extravagant Poke Ball with a reduced catch rate, but that grants the captured Pokemon two (2) EC, MC, or DC of the trainer's choice when captured.
Cost: 6 | Ball Strength: 12
Master Ball: A legendary Poke Ball that will capture any Pokemon without fail. Master Ball ignores the Max EN Modifier and Outside Capture Resistance variables.
Cost: — | Ball Strength: 310
Low-Cost Balls:
Cherish Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against legendary Pokemon.
Level Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate if your Pokemon are more evolved than the target Pokemon. (Single Stage Pokemon are considered Second Stage, First Stage Pokemon out of Two or Three Stage Pokemon are still considered First Stage.)
Cost: 3 | Ball Strength: 36 (One Pokemon Two Stages Greater than Target), 21 (One Pokemon One Stage Greater than Target), 15 (Target Stage Equal)
Nest Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against weaker opponents.
Cost: 3 | Ball Strength: 36 (First Stage or Baby Pokemon), 18 (Second of Two Stages or Single Stage Pokemon), 15 (Third of Three Stages)
Mid-Cost Balls:
Dive Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon in the Water 3 Egg Group.
Moon Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against any Pokemon that evolve by or from Moon Stone, or are in the Fairy Egg Group
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 15, 36 (Pokemon that evolve from or by Moon Stone, Fairy Egg Group)
Net Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon in the Bug or Water-1 Egg Groups.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 15, 36 (Bug or Water 1 Egg Groups)
Park Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon found in City or Industrial Arena.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 15, 36 (In City or Industrial Arenas)
Safari Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon fought in tall grass.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 15, 36 (In tall grass)
Sport Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon fought in desert areas.
Cost: 4 | Ball Strength: 15, 36 (In Desert areas)
Premium Balls:
Heal Ball: A Poke Ball that heals its target for 50 HP and 50 EN when successful.
Cost: 8 | Ball Strength: 10
Quick Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased ball strength against Pokemon when thrown earlier in combat. Quick Ball ignores the Outside Capture Resistance variable.
Cost: 10 | Ball Strength: 50, diminishes by 10 for each round of combat to a minimum of 5 (e.g. it's 40 at the start of Round 2, 30 at the start of round 3, etc.)
Repeat Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate against Pokemon you have captured at some point in the past, including those species that you used to have but either traded or evolved. Repeat Ball ignores the Max EN Modifier variable.
Timer Ball: A Poke Ball that has an increased catch rate based on the duration of the battle. Timer Ball ignores the Max EN Modifier variable.
Cost: 10 | Ball Strength: 5, increases by 5 for each round of combat to a maximum of 40 (e.g it's 10 at the start of Round 2, 15 at the start of Round 3, etc.)
ObjEDIT: Fixed parenthesis issues - previously it looked like it was just the amount subtracted from Ball Strength that was multiplied by Major Status Modifier.
